IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 February 2017 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> !cheap-client
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| 06:45 | <ltsp> cheap-client: (#1) http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_343636.html, or (#2) https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-arrival-Beelink-Pocket-Z83-Windows-10-Mini-PC-Z8300-64bit-1-84GHz-2GB-RAM-32GB/1871240_32640039781.html
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| 07:12 | <vlt> alkisg: Good morning!
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> Good morning vlt :)
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| 07:12 | <vlt> What does that mean “sisfb isn't loaded by default in ubuntu 12.04”?
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> Did you decide to throw away those lame clients yet? :D
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| 07:12 | <vlt> :-D
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| 07:12 | Soooooon
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> vlt, it means that if you manage to install xserver-xorg-video-sis to 14.04 or even to 16.04, you will see the available resolutions again
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| 07:13 | *all the ...
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| 07:14 | vlt, if you plan to throw them away before 2019, why not install ubuntu 14.04, which is supported till then
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| 07:14 | And completely ignore 16.04...
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| 07:14 | <vlt> Yes. The -sis pkg seems to be available until 14.04, so that would be an option (for the clients) to get a slightly longer supported system.
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| 07:14 | <alkisg> But take care to use 14.04.1, not e.g. 14.04.3 or anything else, that won't have the driver
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| 07:15 | <vlt> What?!
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| 07:15 | They dropped support for -sis within the 14.04 release?
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> That's how lts releases work
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| 07:16 | <vlt> I still don't understand what exactly your sisfb sentence means because yesterday it looked like the -sis driver wasb't used at all.
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> There's lts support for kernels and xorg
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| 07:17 | That means that when 14.10 is out, they backport their kernels and xorg to 14.04
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| 07:17 | And when 15.04 is out too, and that becomes 14.04.3
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| 07:17 | But that's a different line of upgrades
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| 07:17 | Those that had the initial kernel and xorg, don't automatically update to the newer stack
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| 07:17 | So you'll need to have xserver-xorg installed, not e.g. xserver-xorg-lts-vivid or something
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| 07:18 | <vlt> Ok. In my case it's not this important because for now I'll stick with 12.04 and a SCREEN_07 line for all the clientsm
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| 07:18 | -m
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> You have thin clients; you can keep a thin chroot for ages
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| 07:19 | And only update the server...
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| 07:19 | <vlt> When everyone is happy with performance again I'll switch to 14.04 clients
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> Just remember, when you'll buy new clients, to select fat ones, not thins :)
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| 07:20 | <vlt> I'll do.
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| 07:21 | <vlt> Seems strange now after more than 10 years letting the server do all the work.
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| 07:22 | Something in my head tells me that a cheap fat client will never be able to compete with the power of our 12 core 48 GB RAM machine :D
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> Check cpubenchmark and say that again :)
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| 07:22 | A monster server scores something like 10.000 passmark
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| 07:22 | A modest atom scores 2.000
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| 07:22 | So, 5 atoms = 1 monster server
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| 07:22 | And if you have 70 clients... do the math
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| 07:23 | One i3 scores something like 5.000-6.000
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| 07:23 | !cheap-client
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| 07:23 | <ltsp> cheap-client: (#1) http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_343636.html, or (#2) https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-arrival-Beelink-Pocket-Z83-Windows-10-Mini-PC-Z8300-64bit-1-84GHz-2GB-RAM-32GB/1871240_32640039781.html
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> Even the lamest fat client scores more than 1000: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+x5-Z8350+%40+1.44GHz
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| 07:24 | And I've seen expensive Xeon processors scoring less than cheap i3/i5...
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| 07:25 | <vlt> You did the math.
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| 07:49 | <alkisg> !server
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| 07:49 | <ltsp> sinisalo.freenode.net
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> !server-ram
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| 07:50 | <ltsp> server-ram: LTSP server RAM *really* depends on the usage. But anyway here's an approximation: Server RAM in MB = 1500 + 30*number-of-fat-clients + 300*number-of-thin-clients
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> !server-cpu
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| 07:50 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'server-cpu', but I do know about these similar topics: 'server-ram'
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> !learn server-cpu as LTSP server CPU *really* depends on the usage. But anyway here's an approximation: Server CPU in http://cpubenchmark.net score: 1500 + 30*number-of-fat-clients + 300*number-of-thin-clients
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| 07:50 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 07:52 | <alkisg> vlt: so, according to that ^ formula, for 70 thin clients, you would need a passmark score of 22500, which doesn't exist, and for 70 fat clients, a score of 3600, which is a plain celeron.
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| 08:38 | markit has joined IRC (markit!~marco@88-149-177-66.v4.ngi.it) | |
| 08:39 | <alkisg> markit: try `sudo service network-manager restart` to see if nm comes back online
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| 08:40 | It's a known bug with nbd-client
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| 08:41 | <markit> alkisg: hi, today I've re-started the Vm and connectivity works! So strange
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| 08:41 | <alkisg> Nah, it's called "race condition"
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| 08:41 | <markit> alkisg: but the VM that acts as client does not boot, it stops at
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| 08:42 | <alkisg> It works only half of the times
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| 08:42 | <markit> tftp://192.168.0.10//ltsp/amd64/pxelinuux.0..... connection timed out
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| 08:42 | alkisg: so better use static network assignment?
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| 08:43 | (I'm a fan of /etc/network/interfaces :P)
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| 08:43 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 08:43 | Run this: sudo dpkg-divert --divert /etc/nbd-client.init --rename /etc/init.d/nbd-client
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| 08:43 | About the connection timed out, what are the contents of /etc/dnsmasq.d/network-manager?
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| 08:45 | <markit> let me check
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| 08:46 | only "bind-interfaces"
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> Comment it out and restart dnsmasq
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| 08:48 | <markit> wow, works!
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| 08:48 | alkisg for the rescue, as usual
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| 08:48 | <alkisg> Sure, why the "wow"? :P
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| 08:48 | :D :D :D
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| 08:49 | <markit> alkisg: ltsp will die if you abandon it
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> Nah, others will pick it up
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| 08:49 | <markit> would love to belive it (just to relieve the pressure on you) but don't think so
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> The problem is with ubuntu there though, not with ltsp
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| 08:50 | They decided to abuse dnsmasq to make it a local resolver, without caring that they break a whole lot of other use cases
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| 08:50 | <markit> (at the phone)
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| 08:51 | <alkisg> And the nbd-client issue, is a problem with debian, that it "releases when it's ready"; while they could just set a specific freeze date that aligns with ubuntu, e.g. every 2 years, and then release when they're ready after the freeze date
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| 08:52 | (the problem with nbd-client was fixed in time for debian stretch, but not for ubuntu 16.04, and now it's difficult to sync it with 16.04...)
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| 08:52 | ...bureaucracy...
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| 08:57 | <markit> sorry, back, reading
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| 08:58 | I'm with 16.04, classic ltsp worked fine with kde (I've still usual big I/O issues with their damn way of cache icons or other stuff that generates tons of I/O on hte server)
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| 08:58 | <alkisg> Classic you mean with a chroot?
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| 08:59 | <markit> yes sorry :)
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> The network-manager and dnsmasq and nbd-client issues are not related to chroots or pnp
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| 08:59 | And neither to desktop environment
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| 08:59 | They are there in 16.04 no matter which de you have
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| 08:59 | As long as you have those packages installed...
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| 08:59 | <markit> yep, just to notify you that kde works fine with 16.04 (I'm a kde fan, you know)
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 09:00 | <markit> and since kde people don't care about ltsp, breakage that I could not solve is always a risk for me (I'm not as good as you are, if something very wrong arises I'm lost)
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| 09:01 | <alkisg> Ideally you should be able to reproduce all the issues without ltsp too
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| 09:02 | So that you can report to them "it doesn't work in this use case" without even mentioning the word ltsp
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| 09:02 | <markit> I tell you my feeling about GNU desktop development, at least kde
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| 09:02 | kjackal_ has joined IRC (kjackal_!~quassel@onopfy.static.otenet.gr) | |
| 09:02 | <markit> they use ssd, they are "desktop single users" centric
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| 09:03 | there are problems with homes shared in nfs or something like that that they never considered
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| 09:04 | in my desktop the high I/O is a matter of some seconds, if you have ssd is not a problem, if you have 10 clients booting at the same time is a huge difference instead
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| 09:04 | <alkisg> I don't think kde requires an ssd
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| 09:05 | <markit> I did not say so, just if you are a developer and use ssd, you think that bottleneck is not important
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> Most DEs also care a bit about mobile environments too nowadays
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| 09:05 | So they don't want to get the specifications too high
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| 09:05 | <markit> well, probably they find more funny add visual effects than tryint to trubleshoot problems only few people raise
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| 09:06 | is a matter of facts that booting kde is slower than other desktops I tested time ago
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| 09:06 | and the I/O I measured was 2-3x of gnome at those time
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| 09:07 | <alkisg> Also, if I remember correctly you said that this only happened on ltsp clients, not on standalone workstations
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| 09:07 | I.e. there's something there that forces kde to do all those reads
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| 09:07 | <markit> but I'm not skilled enough to pinpoint the problem, and no developer was interested at that time (and they are not very friendly to be sincere)
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| 09:07 | <alkisg> Maybe it's possible to force it to NOT do all those reads, so that's it's fast again
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| 09:07 | Then you could switch to another DE
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| 09:08 | <markit> no, it does always all those reads, only is a pain if done through network
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> It always reads e.g. 600 mb for a single login? that sounds lame...
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| 09:08 | Someone should pinpoint why that is the case
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| 09:10 | <markit> first time you login does a huge read then puts in /var/tmp, like /var/tmp/kdecache-marco
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| 09:10 | the subsequent time it does a better job, but still heavy AFAIR
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> That would mean that "guest login" is very slow, right?
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| 09:11 | Because it happens from scratch each time
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| 09:11 | That is one way to report it without mentioning "ltsp" anywhere...
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| 09:11 | <markit> I've tried to move that cache to their home dir, so they can find it again, but nfs is not that bright in performances
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> Just tell them that you have a normal, 100 GB rotational hard disk, and it takes a long time to login as guest
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| 09:12 | <markit> alkisg: yep, but they probably tell you that is just a 15 seconds wait, that second time is better, and "who does not have ssd these days?"
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> There's no "second time" for guest
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| 09:13 | No sdd => you can point them to 80% of the users that don't have one
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| 09:13 | So I can't believe they would say such lame excuses
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| 09:13 | <markit> who cares about "guest" account? :)
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| 09:14 | I've heard incredible things in my life as excuses for obvious bugs, and I'm sure you too
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| 09:14 | in any case the best answer is "fix it yourself, there is the source code"
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| 09:14 | <alkisg> Where is your official bug report for that?
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| 09:15 | Let me read their answers there, in the bug tracker
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| 09:15 | Not in irc or forums
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| 09:16 | <markit> urgh, is a long time ago, don't remember, I will have a look and send you an email
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| 09:17 | btw, I've created an user, and now I try to login but without success
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| 09:17 | Received disconnect from 192.168.0.144 port 42426:11: disconnected by user
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| 09:18 | I enter username, the password, then a brief text screen with some messages, then login again
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| 09:18 | in the /var/log/auth.log I've traces that it logs, then disconnects
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| 09:19 | and btw, how are homes mounted? it depends upon lts.conf as usual?
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> The default is sshfs
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| 09:20 | Try with the xterm session
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| 09:20 | From the ldm preferences menu
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| 09:25 | <markit> btw, my discussion about kde were almost in chat, and were very frustrating and unfriendly. Finally I contacted (I don't remember how and why) the chief developer that invited me to write to the ml, I did, he replied and I did not advanced my requests since I found how to "make it work decently" and was not able to give more tech details to him
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| 09:25 | https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2012-September/021607.html
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| 09:26 | <alkisg> Yup, that's not a bug tracker :)
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| 09:26 | Bug trackers force developers to reply more formally
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| 09:26 | "won't fix" means that they actually don't care
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| 09:26 | It's hard to mark a bug "won't fix" if it affects a lot of users
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| 09:26 | So, next time use a bug tracker instead
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| 09:28 | They also can't reply "fix it yourself" there. They can say "we accept patches", but they cannot close the bug just because you are unable to provide them
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| 09:28 | <markit> xsession: unable to launch "/usr/bin/xterm" X session --- "/usr/bin/xterm" not found; failling back to defaul tsession
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> Install xterm :)
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| 09:28 | Or symlink another xterm to that
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| 09:29 | <markit> alkisg: I'm not able to provide them better info, is like "clueless newbie here with a bigh tech problems that points out your desigh is buggy, care to help?" :)
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> I've seen bug reports that start with a whole lot less than what you provided there
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| 09:30 | If they want something, they can ask you, and even mention specific steps to get it
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| 09:30 | <markit> mmm dns does not work, I've to try the wiki solution I guess
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> So, a bug report can be: "first login is very slow", and mention that it takes 30 secs in your hardware, while e.g. gnome takes 10 secs
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| 09:31 | No mention of ltsp is needed there
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| 09:32 | And of course noone will tell you "buy an ssd" there in the bug report
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| 09:33 | <markit> damn, I've applied the fist solution of the wiki and now dnsmasq does not restart
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| 09:33 | Job for dnsmasq.service failed because the control process exited with error code. See "systemctl status dnsmasq.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details.
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| 09:34 | nss-lookup.target: Job nss-lookup.target/start failed with result 'dependency'.
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| 09:34 | what about a reboot? :)
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> Do you have epoptes installed?
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| 09:34 | <markit> no
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> Yup, a reboot would help too
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| 09:35 | Or at least restarting network-manager
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| 09:35 | <markit> it restarted fine AFAIK
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| 09:36 | ok, now let's try again with xterm
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| 09:38 | ehm, probably I've to rebuild the image, right? :)
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> Yup, unless you switch to thin client mode
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| 09:38 | Install epoptes too
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| 09:38 | You'll probably need it :D
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| 09:39 | Sameer has joined IRC (Sameer!b649b236@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.73.178.54) | |
| 09:39 | <Sameer> Hi
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 09:40 | <Sameer> Need to know about LTSP licence
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> It's gpl 2, mostly
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| 09:40 | Why?
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| 09:42 | <Sameer> I am asking because we are doing audit for software that we are using in our company. So need to confirm about LTSP Licence.
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| 09:42 | Is there any refernce link for it
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| 09:42 | <alkisg> !ltsp-source
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| 09:42 | <ltsp> ltsp-source: at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/files
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| 09:42 | <alkisg> The files are there,
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| 09:43 | and each file states the license in the top of its contents
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| 09:43 | <markit> alkisg: btw, reading my old notes probably sshfs will fail with kde, better try nfs. I will read what you told me time ago about how to pass config files that I usually put in chroot and try
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> Sameer: Most of them say "gpl v2+", so for a general audit, that line should be enough
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| 09:44 | <Sameer> thanks for info. alkisg
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> np
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| 09:46 | markit: you enable nfs from lts.conf, not from the chroot
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| 09:47 | !nfs
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| 09:47 | <ltsp> nfs: to enable NFS home directories for localapps and fat clients, install nfs-kernel-server etc on your server, and put this inlts.conf: FSTAB_1="server:/home /home nfs defaults,nolock 0 0"
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| 09:47 | <markit> alkisg: I mean I have to set an environment variable in chroot, the client must run it, it was in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10ltspMM_rm_phonondevicesrc
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| 09:47 | (my script) that sets KDEVARTMP=$HOME/.cache
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> I have no idea about phonon
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| 09:48 | <markit> is just the name of the script, there I put everything I need ;P
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> That's to change KDEVARTMP, it's not related to nfs
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| 09:48 | <markit> yep, but without that change you can't login
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> OK, but still not related to nfs that we were talking about
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| 09:50 | <markit> sure, nfs is not a problem, why are we talking about that? My problem is have my script run at client startup
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> No, you wanted it to run before xsession initialization, not at client startup
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| 09:50 | <markit> btw, with xterm sesssion I see the prompt but can't act in it
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> RCFILE is for client startup
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| 09:51 | Move the mouse above the prompt
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| 09:51 | Then type
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| 09:51 | <markit> alkisg: forgive my ignorance, I just want to replicate the same functionality I had with "normal ltsp" when in "ltsp-pnp", since I've no chroot I don't know how to make my script act
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| 09:52 | <vlt> alkisg: Thank you.
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> No worries; I'm just explaining stuff when you say something that isn't accurate
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| 09:52 | (markit)
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| 09:52 | <markit> funny, the mouse is an hourglass in most of the screen but not around the prompt, so I though was frozen, instead works
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| 09:52 | alkisg: I know you love me ;P
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| 09:52 | <vlt> The 70 clients are spread among 4 LTSP servers.
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| 09:52 | * markit takes note and tryes to learn, thanks | |
| 09:53 | <vlt> But I will switch to fat clients within the following 4 years.
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> markit: now, run this: grep ^Exec /usr/share/xsessions/*, on your server, and tell us the output
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| 09:54 | <markit> server = client I guess
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> It's the same; I just wanted you to be able to copy/paste more easily...
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| 09:55 | Because copy/pasting to web from xterm will be a challenge
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| 09:55 | <markit> :)
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> grep ^Exec /usr/share/xsessions/* | nc termbin.com 9999
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| 09:55 | <markit> 2 lines
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| 09:55 | [10:53] <alkisg> markit: now, run this: grep ^Exec /usr/share/xsessions/*, on your server, and tell us the output
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| 09:55 | ops
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> That is smaller
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| 09:55 | <markit> '/usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop:Exec=gnome-session --session=gnome
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| 09:55 | '/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop:Exec=/usr/bin/startkde
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> OK I guess you don't want to test gnome,
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| 09:55 | so, from that xterm...
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| 09:56 | <markit> really!
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> you do see marco@ltsp123 as the prompt in that xterm, right?
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| 09:56 | <markit> is it a ltsp dependency? I had some problem also with regular ltsp afair
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> ...not root or server or something weird, correct?
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| 09:56 | <markit> correct
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> So, from the marco@ltsp123 prompt, run: startkde
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| 09:56 | And see if it works, or what error message it produces
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| 09:57 | <markit> wow, works, kde is soooo beautiful ;P
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> If it works, then try to login, and select kde from the ldm preferences menu
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| 09:58 | *try to logout, sorry
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| 09:59 | <markit> works too, is just the "preferred" that is not right
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> Was that an existing user?
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| 10:00 | Maybe his .dmrc was wrong
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| 10:00 | I.e. a user issue, not an ltsp issue
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| 10:00 | <markit> no, created from scratch (I'm using vms in proxmox)
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| 10:00 | alkisg: installing ltsp packages I've seen some "gnome related" packages installed too... could it be an issue?
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> Maybe it tried gnome then
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| 10:01 | Could be
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| 10:01 | bb later... have fun!
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| 10:01 | <markit> alkisg: thanks so much, now I've to discover how to have kde be the preferred session and I'm almost done, great!
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> LDM_SESSION=plasma
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| 10:09 | <markit> apt purge gnome-session wants to install tons of packages mate related
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| 10:32 | <alkisg> markit, put your /var/log/apt/history.log to pastebin
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| 10:33 | ldm-server Recommends: gnome-session | mate-desktop-environment | x-session-manager | x-window-manager, ltspfs, libasound2-plugins, xauth
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| 10:33 | Maybe that's the issue there
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| 10:34 | <markit> alkisg: btw, if the lock screen starts, I can't login again! in .xsession-errors says "Authentication failure" (don't know if is a kde bug, I remember happend time ago also in my desktop after a day of not usage, but at the first lock, just after a lot of time)
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> Maybe kde doesn't provide x-session-manager, and it's a bug in the kde packaigng
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| 10:34 | !hash
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| 10:34 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'hash', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ROOT_PASSWORD_HASH', 'LDM_PASSWORD_HASH'
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> !LDM_PASSWORD_HASH
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| 10:34 | <ltsp> LDM_PASSWORD_HASH: LDM_PASSWORD_HASH=True in lts.conf saves the password hash to /etc/shadow on login, so that the users can unlock the screensaver etc. If they happen to change their password though, that only takes effect until logout.
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> Use that for lock
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| 10:37 | <markit> alkisg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23959940/
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> markit: yup, sounds like it
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| 10:38 | markit, try this: sudo apt install --no-install-recommends choosewm
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| 10:38 | Then, remove the gnome packages
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> After that, you should be able to remove them without having to install mate :D
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| 10:39 | If things go as I said, then file a bug report for ldm-server to include the plasma de too
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| 10:39 | Or, for plasma de to provide x-session-manager
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| 10:39 | $ apt-cache show lxde-common | grep Provides
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| 10:39 | Provides: x-session-manager
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| 10:40 | E.g. that's what lxde does
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| 10:43 | <markit> a bug to ltsp bug tracker you mean?
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> !ltsp-bug
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| 10:43 | <ltsp> ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> yup, either the ltsp or the kde tracker
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| 10:43 | <markit> great
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> (the debian kde tracker)
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| 10:44 | <markit> mmm insistes in installing mate stuff
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| 10:46 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/23959960/
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> I don't see the command you gave there
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| 10:46 | Also, did you install choosewm?
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| 10:47 | <markit> ehm, hell not!
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| 10:47 | <alkisg> :)
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| 10:47 | (12:38:39 μμ) alkisg: markit, try this: sudo apt install --no-install-recommends choosewm
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| 10:47 | <markit> choosewm is already the newest version (0.1.6-3)
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| 10:47 | ah, yes I did, is the only thing I did
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| 10:48 | let me re-read your instructions
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| 10:48 | [11:38] <alkisg> markit, try this: sudo apt install --no-install-recommends choosewm
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| 10:48 | done
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| 10:48 | [11:38] <alkisg> Then, remove the gnome packages
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| 10:49 | apt purge gnome-session
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| 10:49 | then I stopped before it installed 600MB of poisoning stuff
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> Package: ltsp-server-standalone, Depends: gnome-session | mate-desktop-environment | x-session-manager | x-window-manager, isc-dhcp-server | dhcp3-server | dnsmasq, ldm-server, libasound2-plugins, ltspfs, ltsp-server, nbd-server (>= 1:2.9.25-2), openbsd-inetd | inet-superserver, openssh-server, squashfs-tools, tftpd-hpa | atftpd | dnsmasq (>= 2.41), x11-utils, xauth
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| 10:50 | <markit> I just wondering why a PURGE makes apt install NEW STUFF!
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> To satisfy the ltsp-server-standalone dependencies
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| 10:50 | <markit> (btw, screen lock now works, thanks to LDM_PASSWORD_HASH )
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| 10:51 | ah, it installs mate-desktop-environment stuff, now I get
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| 10:51 | <alkisg> Sorry I was wrong choosewm doens't provide x-window-manager
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| 10:51 | markit: sudo apt install --no-install-recommends matchbox-window-manager
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| 10:51 | Try this instead of choosewm
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| 10:51 | Then try to remove gnome
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| 10:51 | Cheers!
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| 10:51 | bbl
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| 10:52 | <markit> great, works
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| 12:13 | <vlt> alkisg: Update: I was curious and booted a freshly installed standard 14.04 image on the client. The sis chip "works" out of the box (as in it runs on 1920x1080 resolution) but image rendering is noticably slower.
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| 12:14 | (I tested only in xfreerdp client mdoe)
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| 12:15 | *mode
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| 12:17 | <vlt> Strangely the ltsp image that was build by ltsp-build-client is 14.04.5 while the host is (a debootstrapped 14.04).
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| 12:19 | If you’re right, alkisg, then down-grading the client image to 14.04 could help. But w/o the updates I could as well stay on 12.04.
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| 12:20 | But still – there must be something present in the 12.04 image that lets the chip work quite ok and I have no idea what o_O
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| 12:35 | <alkisg_web> vlt, of course 14.04.1 gets all the updates
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| 12:36 | You haven't understood the concepts of kernel upgrades
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| 12:36 | Read this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
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| 12:36 | An updated 14.04.1 release will be 14.04.5 for everything except kernel and xorg
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| 12:36 | Which is exactly what you need
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| 12:37 | <vlt> alkisg_web: You’re right, I absolutely haven’t :D
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| 12:46 | <vlt> alkisg_web: In this diagram https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Kernel.2FSupport.A14.04.x_Ubuntu_Kernel_Support it looks like the chroot env that says "14.04.5" should have a 4.4 kernel.
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| 12:47 | But it’s this instead: initrd.img-3.13.0-108-generic
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| 12:48 | <ogra_> "<alkisg_web> An updated 14.04.1 release will be 14.04.5 for everything except kernel and xorg"
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| 12:48 | ;)
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| 12:48 | * ogra_ points to the "except" | |
| 12:50 | * vlt just doesn’t get it :D | |
| 12:51 | <vlt> A 14.04.5 should have a 4.4 kernel. Is that correct?
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| 12:56 | <ogra_> if you installed from a 14.04.5 iso image initially, yes
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| 12:57 | an upgraded 14.04.1 install will keep the kernel and xorg that was used to install
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| 12:57 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Ubuntu_14.04_LTS_-_Trusty_Tahr
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| 12:57 | you need to perform these steps if you want that upgraded
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| 13:09 | <vlt> Ah ok
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| 13:09 | I always use debootstrap.
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| 13:09 | <ogra_> you shouldnt ... the installer seeds a lot of stuff in the debconf db
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| 13:09 | stuff that you potentially want
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| 13:10 | (for a chroot or such deboostrap is fine, but not really for a real install)
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| 13:10 | <alkisg_web> vlt, the end result is that your 14.04 chroot is exactly what you need, and you can upgrade it without fearing it will lose the sis support
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| 13:11 | <vlt> ogra_: Can you give an example for stuff that’s missing in my debootstrapped systems?
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| 13:12 | <alkisg_web> ltsp-build-client uses debootstrap which installs the 14.04.1 kernel and xorg, along with all the upgrades, which is what you want
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| 13:12 | You *don't* want the newer kernel and xorg
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| 13:12 | <ogra_> vlt, you would have to take a look at debian-installer code really
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| 13:12 | <vlt> alkisg_web: Perfect. Then we only have to find out why it behaves noticably slower on 14.04 -sis.
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| 13:13 | <alkisg_web> vlt: is that with the same version of firefox on the server?
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| 13:13 | <vlt> alkisg_web: It’s the very same 16.04 server I connect to via xfreerdp.
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| 13:13 | alkisg_web: And it’ſ not specifically firefox.
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| 13:14 | <alkisg_web> Ah, if you're using xfreerdp, then that might be it, the newer version might be using something different
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| 13:14 | Try x11perf or gtkperf *locally* to measure the difference between xorg performance
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| 13:14 | <vlt> Every /me wonders why newer means always slower lately o_O
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| 13:14 | -Every
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| 13:15 | <ogra_> code grows while it improves :)
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| 13:15 | <vlt> alkisg_web: Ok, I’ll do that. Later. Now I have to configure the 16.04 machine.
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| 13:15 | * alkisg_web waves :) | |
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