IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Request log from specific day:

Channel log from 28 April 2009 (all times are UTC)

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01:59	<johnny> go jaunty installer peeps..
01:59	it is awesome
01:59	<Appiah> huh
01:59	<johnny> it saw my old install, and told me what OS it was :)
01:59	so i knew what i was installing on top of
01:59	that was pretty sweet.. and somewhat unexpected
02:01	hmm.. Computer Janitor..
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02:50	<openstep> hi
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03:09	<openstep> I would like to ask someons opinion about using opensolaris as ldap and file server with ltsp
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03:12	<Appiah> what about it?
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03:23	<johnny> openstep, there is no solaris port
03:23	you'd have to create it yourself
03:23	you can follow the examples if you are so included
03:23	of ubuntu/debian/gentoo/fedora to do your own
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03:31	<openstep> jonny do you mean do ldap on opensolaris?
03:31	no ldap?
03:36	<johnny> the ldap stuff is unrelated to even just getting ltsp working on solaris
03:36	which would have to be your first thing to take care of before even being concerned with ldap
03:37	oh.. sorry.. i think i misread what you said
03:37	sure.. the ldap would be the same..
03:37	it's not ltsp related atall
03:37	so any random ldap instructiosn will work with ltsp, as long as they work with ssh
03:38	<Drakonen> solaris and linux terminal server project sounds a bit strange :)
03:38	<johnny> Drakonen, not if he just wants to use ldap from the solaris server
03:38	<Drakonen> oh, thats just PAM, notthing special to ltsp
03:38	<johnny> altho.. you could make ltsp work on solaris
03:39	i guess would have to rename it tho :)
03:39	utsp :)
03:39	<Drakonen> johnny: dhcp, tftp and a chroot of a linux image? O_o
03:39	<johnny> sure.. and then nfs and/or nbd
03:39	and also the scripts to build the chroot
03:39	which is what makes ltsp .. ltsp
03:40	it generates the minimal image necessary to boot ltsp
03:40	<Drakonen> good point
03:40	<Appiah> I dont see a problem with the ldap being on solaris
03:40	<johnny> openstep, there is no problem with ldap.. from anywhere.. no matter what OS it is
03:40	<Appiah> I've used both openldap server (linux) and Active Directory (windows) for ltsp
03:41	<johnny> openstep, the instructions for setting up login via ldap for any machine is the same, ltsp or not
03:44	<openstep> all I want is to have a separate file and authentication server on opensolaris
03:45	but if it is over complicated then I just use one of the ltsp servers for this purpose
03:45	<johnny> openstep, no.. it's no more complicated than solaris might make it
03:46	anything that would work with any other machine.. will work with just fine ltsp
03:46	it's 4:45am.. time for me to go..
03:53	<Drakonen> openstep: you could set up an nfs mount on the ltsp server
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04:08	<openstep> ok, then my question is: does anyone have a howto on setting up openldap opn opensolaris?
04:09	along with kerberos etc
04:16	<Drakonen> is it worth it to use NX on a local network even when there are no real complaints about performance atm?
04:16	<openstep> pardon?
04:17	<Drakonen> openstep: that was a new question in no way related to yours
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04:26	<openstep> sorry
04:26	be back later
04:26	bye
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05:09	<kevincolyer> Anybody got experience of LTSP with KDE 4.2? Very little in mailing list I can see. I'm thinking of upgrading 3.5 and concerned about performance hits on thin clients.
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06:15	<chrisjrob> does anyone know how i would stop the
06:16	client going to sleep
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06:37	<ogra> chrisjrob, its very likely not the client itself but a DPMS setting
06:38	you could try to use a custom xorg.conf and disable DPMS
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09:10	<droalt> good morning guys
09:11	I have 5 working ltsp installs all setup the same way but am having a problem with a new one. keep getting the tftp timeout error on the client.
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09:16	<droalt> anyone around this morning
09:19	<Appiah> well here its 4:18 PM
09:19	:D
09:20	<droalt> lol wow early
09:20	already 9 here
09:21	where you from
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09:24	<NeonLicht> mar abr 28 16:23:43 CEST 2009
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09:33	<droalt> hi guys
09:34	i'm getting a tftp timeout error
09:36	<Drakonen> is tftp running_
09:36	is it accessible?
09:37	is the pxe machine accessing the correct machine?
09:37	<droalt> yes to all
09:37	i am running dhcp off windows server
09:37	and i've done it 5 other times w/o any issues
09:37	in the same setup
09:37	but
09:38	when the ltsp server and client are on a switch by themselves, and i enable dhcp on the ltsp server all is great
09:38	so i turned dhcp off, plugged both into the network
09:38	from the windows dhcp server i can ping the ltsp server and vice versa
09:38	<Drakonen> did you add the next-server option to the dhcp config
09:38	<droalt> and then ltsp client pulls the correct ip
09:38	yes, but i also turned dhcp off on the ltsp server
09:39	<Drakonen> which distro_
09:39	<droalt> intrepid
09:39	<Drakonen> so thats debian i guess?
09:39	<droalt> yea pretty much
09:39	ubuntu 8.10
09:39	<Drakonen> ah
09:39	<droalt> whats crazy is I did the same exact setup 5 other places w/o any p roblems
09:40	<Drakonen> i would check again if zour dhcop config is correct, if it gets dhcp from the correct server, if it tries to connect to the correct server for tftp
09:40	correct file etc
09:40	<droalt> yup
09:40	i've triple checked it
09:40	even brought up another server it works on and compared it
09:41	i did a tcpdump to watch for tftp traffic
09:41	<Drakonen> then i dont know
09:41	<droalt> and i don't see it coming in to the ltsp server
09:43	<Drakonen> i still think your dhcp next-server option is wrong :)
09:43	firewall disabled btw?
09:46	<droalt> no
09:46	maybe thats it
09:46	the firewall
09:50	don't see a firewall option in there
09:50	command line?
09:51	<NeonLicht> droalt: check out on /var/log/syslog for firewall messages
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09:56	<mnevans> Hello LTSP world. I'm testing a server-client setup and want one of the clients to be located across the university internet.
09:56	I should be on 10Gb/s connections; I just tested the same client on a 10Mb/s LAN and it seemed mainly limited by server
09:56	CPU time, rather than networking.
09:57	Leaving aside for the moment the security issues (are there important ones? If everything is going via SSH?), how do I tell
09:57	the client to look for a specific IP address of the server machine, which is in the router's DMZ?
09:57	Thanks in advance.
09:59	<alkisg> How're you going to boot it? With a dhcp relay agent?
10:01	<mnevans> Thanks. I was going to try PXEboot, as it was booting on the LAN. Is there a better/safer way?
10:01	<zamba> can't you use next-server option in dhcpd.conf to tell the client where the tftp server is?
10:03	<mnevans> Searching for dhcpd.conf for ltsp to find out more... Zamba, can you point me to some example syntax for next-server option?
10:04	<zamba> http://pastebin.com/m6e571a18
10:04	there's a group statement in the dhcpd.conf
10:04	the dhcp server is at 192.168.1.1
10:05	that works over different subnets as well
10:05	you only have to make sure that udp packets are let through in both directions
10:06	afaik
10:08	<mnevans> Thank you. Would this group statement go within the conditional statement that checks if this is a PXE client or not;
10:08	or would it be a wrapper around the entire host statement?
10:08	<zamba> it goes directly in the subnet declaration
10:09	the group statement is just for grouping stuff together logically in dhcpd
10:09	<mnevans> I see. So it would go into the subnet declaration, but before the host statement, and wrap the entire host statement.
10:10	<zamba> so instead of declaring next-server and filename for every host, you just declare it for that group of hosts
10:10	group { global-declarations; host-1 { declaration; } host-2 { declaration; } }
10:11	so all that you put into the "global-declarations" will apply for all hosts defined under the group
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10:14	<mnevans> I think I get it. Where do I put the group name? as group name { global-declarations; ...}? Or as a domain-name declaration?
10:15	<zamba> hm?
10:15	you can put it wherever you want to
10:15	but the most logical part is under the subnet
10:15	subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
10:15	global declarations for subnet;
10:15	group {
10:16	declarations for group;
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10:16	<zamba> host host-1 {
10:16	declarations for host;
10:16	}
10:16	}
10:16	}
10:16	hehe
10:16	irc isn't the best editor ;)
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10:18	<mnevans> Got it. Thanks! I can follow the IRC formatting. Now if the next-server gives the right IP address of the server, it will then translate that to the LAN IP,
10:19	and back again, as the server and client communicate?
10:22	<zamba> NAT will fix that, i guess
10:22	but you have to make sure no firewalls block the udp traffic
10:24	<alkisg> Erm, switches generally don't forward broadcasted packets like dhcp requests, how is this going to work? (I don't know how DMZ works)
10:25	<mnevans> This will be fun - there are probably multiple firewalls in the network path. Is there a specific port I would have to enable?
10:25	<Lumiere> alkisg: switches forward broadcast packets
10:25	routers don't
10:25	<alkisg> Aaah right got lost there
10:25	<Lumiere> zamba: please use a pastebin for large pastes... paste.lisp.org is pretty good (and allows annotations
10:26	<alkisg> (with the "across the university" I imagined routers and so I misread the switch reference below...)
10:26	<mnevans> I am testing this setup using a router; but in the real setup, I want to run the "remote" client through a switch.
10:26	...Sorry for the confusion.
10:28	Can I ask a different question? What are the major security holes in using a client over the internet (e.g. not from within a small private network
10:28	<NeonLicht> mnevans, perhaps gPXE can help
10:28	<mnevans> which is attached via a switch to the server.
10:30	I am happy to go to an open source solution... now I need to read up on gPXE.
10:31	<NeonLicht> well, after your last question I'm not sure anymore you need it
10:32	<mnevans> I guess I would chainload it from PXE, e.g. as explained on http://etherboot.org/wiki/pxechaining; but what advantage does it provide?
10:32	<NeonLicht> is your thin client on the same subnet as your server is or not?
10:34	<mnevans> No - for this particular thin client, it won't be. In the eventual setup, all the other clients will be.
10:34	<NeonLicht> then forget about gPXE
10:34	(for this particular client, of course :-
10:34	:-)
10:35	<mnevans> OK - I will investigate using gPXE for the 'local' clients, and use PXE for the one 'remote' client. So please excuse the naive question,
10:35	<alkisg> gPXE can boot from different subnets, it can even load a kernel across http
10:36	So it's the other way around, PXE for the local clients and gPXE for the remote one
10:36	<mnevans> but if I understand correctly, the LTSP5 communications all go through an SSH tunnel? Is this not relatively safe, even across the
10:36	internet?
10:36	<NeonLicht> mnevans, haven't you mixed up PXE and gPXE on yor last sentence? otehrways I'm not able to make any sense of it
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10:38	<mnevans> NeonLicht: I thought you said "forget about gPXE (for this particular client, of course)". Since we were discussing the 'remote' client I thought you were saying
10:39	use PXE for the remote client and PXE for the local clients. Have I got it backwards?
10:40	... I'm reading alkisg's comments... sounds like it makes more sense, to use gPXE for this remote client.
10:40	<NeonLicht> mnevans, sorry but every time you write a new sentence I understand something new and completely different as before. It must be due to the fact that I'm not native english speaker
10:40	mnevans, of course, it does not make any sense to use gPXE for local clients
10:42	<mnevans> I apologize for not making clear statements and questions! More likely the fault is mine b/c LTSP is new to me.
10:43	<NeonLicht> mnevans, are you really trying to set up a client outside the subnet were the LTSP server sits on or not? are you simply wondering about how secure LTSP is runing on a DMZ net? or what?
10:44	<mnevans> I am really trying to put a client in one building across a college campus, with the server in another building.
10:45	... is this crazy?
10:45	<NeonLicht> mnevans, on the same or on different subnets? If on the same, forget about gPXE, if on different one, look at it
10:47	<mnevans> Different subnets.
10:47	<NeonLicht> then I would look at gPXE, I think (never done it myself) it can be done with it
10:51	<mnevans> I will look at gPXE - clearly it must deal with potential security problems of booting across the internet. Thanks.
10:51	<johnny> i think the bandwidth is going to bite you more
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10:52	<mnevans> zamba, Neonlicht, alkisg, johnny - thanks. I'll be back in touch when I've done some more homework. Over and out.
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11:00	<zamba> Lumiere: it was never intended to be so large, but i got carried away with the indentation ;)
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12:17	<Lns> nubae, ping?
12:33	<staffencasa> can someone help me with a issue with the --kiosk plugin? I did a fresh install of Xubuntu 9.04 and installed ltsp-server-standalone and then ran the ltsp-build-client with --kiosk and my clients cannot get outside connections through the server
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12:33	<staffencasa> I hardcoded the nic to 192.168.0.1
12:37	<zamba> looks like a routing issue?
12:37	do the clients get ip?
12:38	<staffencasa> yeah, they had 192.168.0.20
12:39	this one did anyways
12:39	<zamba> how do 'route -n' look on the clients??
12:39	-?
12:40	<staffencasa> I only have firefox loaded, so I can't run commands in the terminal
12:40	<zamba> ctrl+alt+f1
12:40	<staffencasa> you need a login for that.
12:40	the kiosk plugin gives you a random password
12:40	that I don't know
12:40	<zamba> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ; passwd ; passwd -u root
12:40	<staffencasa> it's a dns issue for sure
12:40	<zamba> you sure it's not a routing issue?
12:41	<staffencasa> I just loaded google by going to 209.85.171.100
12:41	<zamba> meaning that your server doesn't NAT the connections
12:41	aha
12:41	<staffencasa> but google.com doesn't work
12:41	<zamba> is the server running a dns server?
12:42	<staffencasa> IDK, what's the easiest way to check
12:42	?
12:42	ps -aux?
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12:43	<zamba> on the server: host google.com 127.0.0.1
12:43	and check /etc/resolv.conf
12:43	<staffencasa> k, just a sec...
12:44	the two ips listed are not the ltsp server
12:45	does the ltsp server have to?
12:47	<zamba> where are the clients getting their dhcp from?
12:47	that server?
12:47	<staffencasa> yeah
12:47	<zamba> what have you defined as domain-name-servers?
12:48	if you're using dhcpd3, that is
12:48	<staffencasa> I didn't. I have two nics in the server. Ones pulling DHCP from another box and the other i've hardcoded to 192.168.0.1 for the internal connection.
12:48	<zamba> yeah, but you have to define name servers for the clients to use
12:49	<staffencasa> where's that done?
12:49	<zamba> in dhcpd.conf
12:49	option domain-name-servers <server1> <server2> ... <serverN>;
12:49	<staffencasa> I've been using a firewall script a coworker wrote that I believe handles that
12:50	would it help to see it?
12:50	<zamba> hm.. this has nothng to do with firewalls
12:50	you have to give the clients the information to use first and foremost
12:51	<staffencasa> I guess I've never had to do that, that's why I'm a little lost. Sorry for my n00bism
12:51	<zamba> but it would help if you had login on the thin clients
12:51	much easier to debug then
12:51	<staffencasa> yeah, the plugin tries to make them as difficult to break into as possible.
12:51	<zamba> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ; passwd ; passwd -u root ; exit ; ltsp-update-image
12:51	should do it
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12:55	<staffencasa> rebuilding...
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12:59	<staffencasa> if I edit "/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf", do I need to restart the server?
12:59	and that is the correct file, right
12:59	?
12:59	<alkisg> staffencasa: I've never used the kiosk plugin, but maybe this'll help: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#general-parms => DNS_SERVER in lts.conf
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13:01	<staffencasa> I thought the new version did away with the lts.conf file
13:01	<alkisg> Nope
13:02	<staffencasa> then I have to create one first, right
13:02	<alkisg> And AFAIK dns server from dhcp isn't used for security purposes - at least in the normal (not kiosk) ubuntu installation... could be very wrong, though
13:02	<johnny> alkisg, what are you talking about?
13:03	the dns server is used in regular ubuntu
13:03	from dhcp
13:03	otherwise you wouldn't be able to resolve names
13:03	<alkisg> johnny: if I boot a TC and set a gateway and ping google, will I find it?
13:03	I don't think so because resolv.conf isn't setup correctly - is it? (like I say I could be totally wrong)
13:03	<johnny> you mean in the console?
13:04	<alkisg> Yes, isn't that what the kiosk mode is about? A local firefox?
13:04	<johnny> yes, resolve.conf should be setup fine
13:04	resolv.conf*
13:04	otherwise you wouldn't be able to set SERVER="" by hostname
13:04	<alkisg> server is declared in /etc/hosts
13:04	Ah
13:05	ok :)
13:05	<johnny> look in /etc/resolv.conf on the client.. i'm not near mine
13:05	<alkisg> Last time I looked in jaunty it wasn't accessible, there was a bug filed for that
13:05	io error while reading resolv.conf etc...
13:05	but that was still in beta
13:08	<johnny> remember you can do 2 things with dhcp
13:09	be forced a hostname from the server, or try to force one to the server from the client
13:09	<zamba> johnny: you can't -enforce- a hostname from the server
13:09	<johnny> alkisg, now let me tell you a nasty story of ages past
13:09	<zamba> johnny: it's up to the client to use it or not
13:09	<alkisg> dhcp gives dhs to ipconfig, which writes it to /tmp/net*.conf, and then the initscript read that information, so it's up to the scripts to use it or not, and I just thought that it is discarded and only if it's declared in lts.conf it is used...
13:09	<johnny> zamba, you're right
13:09	<zamba> if you're talking about setting hostname of the client now
13:10	<johnny> force was too strong
13:10	how about "be provided"
13:10	<zamba> perfect :)
13:10	<johnny> so.. back to the story
13:10	in the early days of network manager
13:10	if you switched nets, and accepted a hostname from the server
13:11	all x apps would stop working
13:11	that was the suck
13:11	i had to add supercede hosts or something to my dhclient config
13:11	or rather.. no further X apps could work
13:11	fun
13:12	<alkisg> nice... like the sudo bug a while ago - changing hostname => sudo not working => locked out :)
13:13	<zamba> are you guys ready to do another shot at my "one user account" thingy? ;)
13:13	<johnny> one user account.. no thanks
13:13	<zamba> take another shot, rather
13:14	<johnny> that's just bad design
13:14	<zamba> oh, i know
13:14	<johnny> i'd rather have cheap disposable user accounts
13:15	<zamba> i think i have to ask my question on a mailing list instead :)
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13:24	<Lns> zamba, what do you mean 'one user account' ?
13:31	nevermind =p
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13:35	<zamba> damn :)
13:36	i thought i hooked one :)
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13:43	<staffencasa> zamba, I've fixed it (in the sense that duct tape fixes everything)
13:43	the /etc/resolv.conf file on the client didn't have any permissions and was empty
13:44	yet it was just fine in the chroot on the server
13:45	we changed /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup by removing the if statement and just adding it in and that fixed it
13:45	<zamba> i guess the /etc/resolv.conf file is created at startup
13:45	dynamically
13:45	<staffencasa> statically
13:46	<zamba> i seem to remember something like that when i was running the kiosk mode myself
13:46	<staffencasa> I'm surprised that more people aren't using it. It's very handy to have kiosks that just run firefox
13:46	<zamba> yup
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13:47	<staffencasa> strattog is the one that did most of it. I just watched...
13:47	<zamba> but it's not much more features needed before you have to look for other solutions
13:47	like if you want a printer
13:47	<staffencasa> yeah, that was going to be my next obstacle
13:47	so printers don't work well?
13:47	<zamba> but i used the kiosk mode for 6-7 public computers at my previous work place
13:47	i seem to recall something like that, yeah
13:49	don't expect much more than a working firefox when using kiosk mode
13:50	elronyc has left #ltsp
13:51	<zamba> at least that's what i was told when i first set it up
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14:08	<alkisg> zamba, have you written down anywhere the steps you did to make the one-user-thing work in fat clients?
14:08	<zamba> alkisg: yeah
14:08	<alkisg> (I was thinking to do something similar for wine apps)
14:08	Could I have a look somehow?
14:08	mail?
14:08	<zamba> sure
14:08	<alkisg> alkisg gmail
14:09	<zamba> you're talking about the unionfs bit now, yeah?
14:09	<alkisg> Yup
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14:09	<zamba> http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/586
14:09	<Lns> zamba: does your one user thing work with many simultaneous logins? Wouldn't that break a bunch of apps?
14:09	<zamba> check that for my starting point
14:10	Lns: no, i use unionfs to prevent exactly that
14:10	<Lns> zamba: but what about UIDs active on different systems accessing the same data/apps, even with unionfs and different data sets?
14:10	<alkisg> ...I thought a little more about it, and it sounds cool, it could even replace sabayon (only for really simple school setups)
14:10	<zamba> oh.. that was you answering :)
14:11	on the mailing list
14:11	<Lns> zamba: yup
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14:11	<zamba> Lns: i haven't really thought about that, i'm afraid
14:11	<Lns> I mean, i'm definitely not as versed as most in here, but I'd think that'd be a stability nightmare
14:12	<zamba> but there's nothing that prevent a user from launching more than one version of any given application?
14:12	or?
14:12	<Lns> zamba: there is with Firefox, for instance
14:13	"Firefox is already running" msg
14:13	I'm sure there are plenty of other examples
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14:13	<zamba> yeah, but it has to have a way to check if it's already running and that check is probably a file in the home directory
14:13	which would be different for each thin client
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14:14	<zamba> alkisg: let me know if you need more info besides that article
14:14	alkisg: to summarize quickly, i swapped out the use of tmpfs and instead used a directory under /tmp.. that way i wouldn't be limited by ram..
14:14	<alkisg> Lns, "Firefox is already running" is based some lock file which would be on the unionfs, so it would take any effect, right?
14:15	<zamba> alkisg: but of course this only applies to the fat clients.. for the thin clients i have to have a directory on the server that does the same
14:15	<alkisg> Yes, if only unionfs could be mounted on a per user basis...
14:15	<Lns> alkisg: I guess so, but any server-side processing (most?) of things like sqlite, etc. might get confused..maybe i'm wrong?
14:15	<zamba> alkisg: it can
14:15	Lns: the sqlite will also be in the unionfs
14:16	<alkisg> zamba: so can user1 see a different /home/user directory than user2?
14:16	(suppose you have different users but a single home dir for all of them)
14:16	<zamba> Lns: the only thing shared will be the memory, but it will still segment correctly
14:16	alkisg: yeah, i think so
14:16	alkisg: hold on
14:18	<volume user="elev" fstype="unionfs" path="none" mountpoint="/home/elev" options="dirs=/tmp/tmpfs:/home/elev=ro" />
14:18	that's the whole magic
14:18	and it basically says that if the user logging on is "elev" then it will create a unionfs on /home/elev that uses /tmp/tmpfs and /home/elev (as read-only)
14:19	<alkisg> ok, but can another user use the same directory for a mount point?
14:19	<zamba> on the same machine?
14:19	<alkisg> yup...
14:20	<zamba> you mean that only the user should see the mount?
14:20	<alkisg> yup...
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14:20	<zamba> maybe.. http://pam-mount.sourceforge.net/doc.php
14:21	you don't want the same starting point?
14:21	or you do, but you want the different users all to use the same home directory, but with their invidual temp layer?
14:21	individual*
14:22	is this in a ltsp environment?
14:22	so more than one user will potentially be logged in at the same time?
14:22	<alkisg> zamba, yes, I was thinking if the last thing you said would be possible... many users sharing a single home dir
14:22	so that the paths stayed the same and configuration would be simpler
14:22	* vagrantc stays out of it
14:23	<zamba> i'm actually not sure
14:23	<johnny> but why???
14:23	<zamba> haha
14:23	<johnny> why not focus on easy account creation
14:23	<zamba> here we go again
14:23	<alkisg> vagrantc: don't worry, I don't think it's possible :)
14:23	<johnny> login, create an account
14:23	logout.. it is destroyed
14:23	problem solved..
14:23	<vagrantc> johnny: haven't seen the likes of you in a while!
14:23	<Lns> johnny: vagrantc: what are the potential stability issues (read: NOT security) regarding multiple logins of a single user?
14:24	<johnny> serious
14:24	<alkisg> johnny: there are good reasons - e.g. a teacher logs in as "user", changes the wallpaper, creates some files/shortcuts etc, and then all students use the same (locked) account
14:24	Like sabayon, but better because of the constant paths
14:24	<johnny> alkisg, that's what sabayon is for.. better effort would be spent to fix that
14:24	<Lns> alkisg: that seems like a real hack vs. things like simply configuring GConf/equiv
14:25	<alkisg> Lns, the real fix would be to have global settings for all programs => make all programs use gconf
14:25	<johnny> that's unlikely..
14:25	<alkisg> yup
14:25	<johnny> but the xdg stuff is helping stuff
14:25	is helping solve real problems
14:25	as far as where temporal storage, cache storage, etc
14:25	settings storage
14:26	<alkisg> johnny, yesterday I was telling about the same things to zamba, now I'm not so sure, I understand how difficult it is for a teacher that knows nothing about linux & administration...
14:27	<Lns> alkisg: an intuitive UI is the solution to that problem (which i'm sorta starting to work on)
14:27	<johnny> that's why sabayon/pessulus way would be nicest..
14:27	<alkisg> And maybe "proper" solutions (like fixing sabayon) exist for many apps, but e.g. wine wouldn't work without standard paths
14:27	<johnny> alkisg, why not raise some cash to fix em?
14:28	some fundraising
14:28	<zamba> alkisg: thank you, that means a lot. suddenly i don't feel so alone anymore :)
14:28	<alkisg> johnny: I had to spend 2 months to convince my principal to buy 2 usb mice for the lab to change some ancient serial ones, I don't think I'm able to sponsor anything :)
14:28	<johnny> the wine problem is not very hard :)
14:28	alkisg, not from your school
14:28	i mean from the global pool of ltsp peeps
14:28	if they all commited $5 for example
14:29	that'd be a substantial fund shortly
14:29	<alkisg> Sure, but how likely is that to happen?
14:29	<johnny> you won't know til you try
14:29	i bet you can raise $1000 easily
14:29	alkisg, what it takes is somebody explaining exactly what the money will be used for
14:29	and how it will benefit them directly
14:29	that's the part i'm no good at :)
14:29	somebody in the field has to write it
14:30	<alkisg> johnny: where I am ltsp is pretty new, I can't persuade people to invest money in something they haven't yet seen...
14:30	<johnny> global pool dude
14:30	not just greeks
14:30	<alkisg> Ah, ok, then that's easier, my english sucks, I'll just get people to laugh at me :P
14:30	<johnny> alkisg, i'm sure some english person will proof read for you
14:31	* Lns isn't too awful at writing
14:31	<alkisg> Lns is really good at writing and maybe johnny should be talking to him ;)
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14:31	<Lns> haha...what are we propsing, a sabayon/pesselus specific initiative?
14:31	<johnny> Lns, multiple
14:32	alkisg wants to make wine configuration work
14:32	like having wine apps in /opt for example
14:32	instead of in ~/.wine
14:32	<Lns> alkisg should look at cxoffice/bottles then, that accomplishes what he's looking for..at least for ideas
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14:38	<johnny> sorry folks.. work time
14:39	* Lns goes off to install calendarserver to replace webdav
14:39	<alkisg> cu later guys
14:40	<Lns> alkisg: still here, just doing other things in the meantime ;)
14:41	<droalt> hey guys I'm getting a tftp time out error
14:41	using a windows dhcp server
14:41	same setup i've used 5 other times, not sure whats wrong
14:42	<Lns> droalt: winnt?
14:44	<droalt> server 2003
14:44	windows server 2003
14:44	<Lns> droalt: do the ltsp svr logs show any tftp connection attempts?
14:44	leio has quit IRC
14:45	<droalt> no
14:45	ran tcpdump and it did not show any hits
14:45	syslog and messages don't show any tftp responses
14:46	<Lns> droalt: what are your windows dhcp service options in place?
14:46	<droalt> when i use dhcp on the server itself it works
14:46	* Lns concurs...strange things sometimes w/windows dhcp and any type of non-trivial configuration
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14:47	<droalt> 17 Root Path : 172.16.1.15:/opt/ltsp/i386
14:47	66 Boot Server Host name : 172.16.1.15
14:47	67 Boto File Name : ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
14:48	also tried 17 Root path : as just /opt/ltsp/i386
14:48	<Lns> droalt: yeah, the 17 shouldn't have IP in it
14:49	<droalt> the other 5 setups I have it is in there but I'll take it out again and try
14:49	<Lns> droalt: what kind of TCs? I've seen weird things with PXE/TFTP/DHCP in some random BIOS revisions that cause a timeout
14:50	<droalt> these are standard desktop dell computers
14:50	but like i said, they work when i use them in a switch alone with the ltsp server
14:51	ok tried taking it out and the same error
14:51	<Lns> droalt: you look at the windows event logs?
14:51	maybe there's a clue in there..?
14:51	<droalt> i just want to make sure it's clear that the tftp error only shows up when i turn dhcp off on the ltsp server and use the windows server to hand out dhcp
14:51	no let me check them
14:51	<Lns> droalt: right...
14:52	<droalt> no, they're clear
14:52	<Lns> droalt: this isn't windows specific but ipcop dhcp...might want to just try "nextserver" option as well, pointing to ltsp server. just for kicks
14:52	<droalt> i've enabled bootp also in the scope
14:52	<Lns> bootp shouldn't apply at all
14:53	<droalt> ipcop dhcp? don't have it
14:55	<Lns> droalt: i know, i'm just saying try adding 'next-server <ip_of_ltsp_server>' and see if that kicks it in. I'm just throwing ideas out from past experiences
14:55	obviously if this is your 5th install with exact same sw/hw something is strange
14:55	<droalt> i agree
14:56	in windows there is no next-server option
14:56	<Lns> ? really?
14:56	<droalt> if there is i don't know about it
14:57	<Lns> droalt: boot server?
14:57	http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=23400
14:58	<droalt> if i have a boot server, whats the poitn of ltsp?
14:59	i just don't get it, worked exactly the same in all my other setups
14:59	<Lns> droalt: to the booting clients, the ltsp server is the boot server
15:00	droalt: obviously there's something different about this setup....
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15:53	<abz___> hi guys could anyone help me with my dhcpd.conf ? PXE clients can't seem to find anything http://paste.ubuntu.com/160218/
15:54	<zamba> abz___: i'm not sure, but isn't the paths a bit off?
15:54	<abz___> lol i'm a total newb! quite proud i got this far!
15:54	where do i start?
15:55	i'm trying to use a mythbuntu-diskless image
15:55	<zamba> first you have defined root-path to be - correctly - "/opt/ltsp/i386/" and then you have set filename to "/ltsp/i386/"
15:55	if you prefix a path with
15:55	eh
15:55	if you prefix a path with '/', then it's an absolute path
15:55	<vagrantc> !docs
15:55	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
15:56	<abz___> see i thought all the paths were put in automatically by the mythbuntu utility
15:56	<zamba> try setting filename to "ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0" instead
15:56	and check the tftp server
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15:58	<abz___> what save my dhcpd.conf as pxelinux.0?
15:58	<zamba> abz___: first, test your tftp server
15:59	abz___: see if you're able to get stuff off it
15:59	<abz___> zamba - how?!
15:59	as i said total newb
15:59	<zamba> use a tftp client
16:00	<abz___> to let you understand i installed mythbuntu control centre and then tried to set it up from there - not very au fait with the command line
16:00	ok tftp client - what would the name be so i use apt-get
16:00	<zamba> search for "tftp", you'd be surprised ;)
16:01	i personally prefer tftp-hpa
16:01	<abz___> ok tftp-hpa installed
16:02	what command do i bang in?
16:02	<zamba> tftp <ip>
16:02	then try just: get pxelinux.0
16:02	<abz___> tftp 192.168.1.2
16:02	tftp> get pxelinux.0
16:02	Error code 1: File not found
16:02	tftp>
16:04	<zamba> try get ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
16:04	see if that gets something
16:05	<abz___> tftp> get ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
16:05	tftp>
16:05	<zamba> ok.. that worked
16:05	<abz___> lol now what
16:05	<zamba> maybe the root-path confuses it?
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16:06	<zamba> but you have uncommented next-server in the dhcpd.conf
16:06	commented*
16:06	<abz___> way my system set up - ubunu box is 192.168.1.20
16:06	<zamba> i see above that 192.168.1.2 actually is the tftp server, so i think you should enable that option :)
16:06	<canmatt> hello all
16:06	<abz___> would like dhcp clients (both ltsp and work laptop) to get ip-s in range of 192.168.1.20 - whatever
16:07	and the router is 192.168.1.254
16:07	<zamba> abz___: try enabling the next-server option
16:07	abz___: and see what happens
16:07	<abz___> ok
16:08	<canmatt> has anyone ever found a solution to the whole Can't call method "configure" problem? I've googled but no luck... all it shows up are posts of someone with the same problem, but with no answers
16:09	<abz___> ok laptop fires up says no dhcp or proxydhcp requestes received
16:09	so still no worky
16:10	i paste what i got:
16:10	http://paste.ubuntu.com/160236/
16:12	<canmatt> i'll take that as a no or "we won't answer you"
16:15	<abz___> any ideas?
16:15	canmatt is now known as bedwyr
16:17	* bedwyr tries sending messages, again
16:18	<bedwyr> hello?
16:18	<vagrantc> !question
16:18	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
16:18	<vagrantc> bedwyr: ^^
16:19	<bedwyr> oh, thanks >.> haven't used IRC in ages...
16:19	and never actually used bots like that either. sorry
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16:20	<bedwyr> so i type "question <my question>"?
16:20	<vagrantc> bedwyr: no, that was so i didn't have to type the whole thing out
16:21	bedwyr: just ask your question
16:21	the bot's not smart enough for me to direct the !question output to somebody else.
16:23	<bedwyr> oh, alright. hrm. i've been trying to set up LTSP 4.2 on CentOS 5.2, when I get to the XDM setting, i get the Can't call method "configure" error. i've googled and only found the question asked, and remain unanswered and saw nothing about it in the troubleshooting
16:24	and thanks, by the way.
16:24	i feel like such a newbie -_-;
16:27	i know i should use the series 5 LTSP, but i doubt my little p133 would work with it
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16:32	<alkisg> abz___: is your dhcp server started? sudo invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server status
16:33	<abz___> Status of DHCP server: dhcpd3 is running.
16:33	sudo invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server restart
16:33	still same
16:34	<alkisg> enable logging in dhcpd.conf and see the logs
16:36	<abz___> how i do that?
16:36	<alkisg> logging = a line that says: logging;
16:36	sudo vi /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ...
16:37	<abz___> k
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16:38	<abz___> no dhcp or proxydhcp offers were received
16:39	how i bring the log up?
16:39	<alkisg> Ubuntu?
16:39	<abz___> yup
16:39	<alkisg> not sure about the menu names because I have greek menus: system > administration > show logs (or something..)
16:40	(restart dhcp3-server for the logging; to take effect...)
16:40	<abz___> ah
16:41	ok what log bit u wanna see?
16:42	<alkisg> Ehm, about the leases... dhcp requests, offers etc
16:44	<abz___> no see anything
16:45	<alkisg> You should see something like this: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/m40724ca8
16:45	Ooops sorry that's the client, but something similar
16:46	<abz___> ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/160250/
16:47	<alkisg> Well, then maybe the server doesn't receive any DHCP_DISCOVERS?
16:48	<abz___> hmm plugged right into the router
16:50	no wait i never pasted enough
16:50	http://paste.ubuntu.com/160253/
16:52	<alkisg> DHCPACK on 192.168.1.99 to 00:1b:77:6d:7d:26 => is that the mac address of your client? then it's ok?
16:52	<abz___> no 00:1c:b3:53:c7:f4 is the mac address
16:53	<alkisg> ..and? whose mac address is that?
16:53	<abz___> that the mac address of the client i want to use as the ltsp client
16:54	<alkisg> whose is this one? ==> 00:1b:77:6d:7d:26
16:54	Because this one does get an ip...
16:56	<abz___> hmm think that might be my vision box
16:57	deffo no the mac for the client
16:57	(to let you understand there is 2 iphones, 3 laptops, a fon router, set top box all connect in)
16:57	but
16:57	00:1c:b3:53:c7:f4 is definately the mac addres
16:58	<alkisg> Ah you also have one for this one... DHCPACK on 192.168.1.68 to 00:1c:b3:53:c7:f4 via eth0
16:58	So it did take an ip address at that ponit
16:58	*point
16:58	<abz___> hmmmm ok
16:58	<alkisg> So it couldn't be saying "no offers recieved..."
16:59	<abz___> ahhhh haaaa
17:00	loading initrd.img................................................. ready
17:00	(changed network cables there....must have been dodgy)
17:00	ok now it seems to have hung
17:00	ooh getting somewhere now!!
17:01	ok it definately stuck at the loading initrd.img screen
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17:08	greg__ is now known as abz______
17:08	<abz______> back
17:09	<zamba> __back__
17:09	<abz______> sorry got d/c - pulled out cable from router
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17:09	<abz______> so yeah it hangs on loading initrd.img.................ready
17:12	<epsas> abz - do you have tftp running on the other machine?
17:12	and does it have a firewall?
17:12	<alkisg> Try removing the "quiet splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and reboot the client
17:13	<abz______> "/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg" is a directory
17:13	when i load it up in vi
17:14	<alkisg> it continues with ...default :)
17:14	<abz______> lol
17:17	ok it's spat out a heap of stuff about pci 000:00:1e.0 PREFETCH window 0x0000020000000-0x00000027f0fffff
17:17	and then hung at that
17:18	<alkisg> OK, some kernel/hardware thing. Good luck, gotta go :)
17:18	<abz______> lol dang
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17:24	<alkisg> abz______: p.s. you may try to pass some kernel parameters like "noapic nolapic" etc in the same pxelinux.cfg/default file - but I don't know which parameter could help with the specific client problem. You could also try with another client with different hardware, to verify that everything else is ok. Gn...
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17:28	<abz______> ignore that... i no want to use that laptop as the client anyways
17:28	plugged it in the box i want to use and now i get this:
17:28	kernel panic - not syncing: out of memory and no killable processes
17:29	dumping ftrace buffer: (ftrace buffer empty)
17:32	256MB of ram so not a huge amount but enough i would have thought?
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19:07	<map7> Is there a way to cache all the packages on a server for building a ltsp client?
19:07	I'm trying to test for a problem with the mythbuntu diskless ltsp build and everytime I run the ltsp-build-client command it has to re-download the 100MB or so and it takes forever.
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19:14	<Ryan52> map7: install approx
19:14	map7: and then use localhost:9999 for your mirror.
19:14	ltsp-build-client has an option for that.
19:15	<map7> Thanks I'll give that a shot
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19:30	<map7> Ryan52 would the option be '--early-mirror localhost:9999'?
19:31	<Ryan52> dunno, sorry. look at --help and --extra-help
19:31	I can look, but I'm lazy.
19:32	--mirror looks right.
19:32	http://localhost:9999/something/
19:32	something is whatever your approx thing is.
19:32	I dunno what ubuntu's is, I use debian.
19:32	<map7> oh I don't have --mirror
19:37	<Ryan52> ?
19:37	you don't have --mirror? what's that mean?
19:38	<map7> I don't have the --mirror option on ltsp-build-client, but I'm in the middle of trying the other options such as --early-mirror
19:39	<Ryan52> what do you mean you don't have it? when you try to use it it doesn't work?
19:40	$ sudo ltsp-build-client --help
19:40	--mirror Set the mirror location
19:40	<map7> my mistake it just was not listed in the extra-help where I was reading.
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22:25	<map7> My PXE machine seems to take a really long time to load vmlinuz and initrd.img what could be the issue here?
22:26	I have both the server and client on a gigabit network and they are connected at gigabit speeds
22:26	<loather-work> tftpd throttled?
22:27	<map7> where do I check that?
22:27	<loather-work> /etc/xinetd.d/tftpd ?
22:27	check see if any of the throttling arguments to in.tftpd are specified
22:27	if so, kill them
22:30	<map7> I'm running ubuntu 810 and I don't have /etc/xinetd.d/tftpd but I do have /etc/init.d/tftpd-hpa
22:32	in.tftpd is running with the -s argument only.
22:35	<loather-work> is there a 'cps' field?
22:36	<map7> there is no cps field in the tftpd-hpa config file
22:43	<loather-work> dunno then. buggy pxe stack on the ethernet board?
22:43	could be dropping packets.
22:43	run tcpdump (i know, udp) and check and see if you're getting retransmits
22:44	<map7> I have had it working fast using that PXE client, and after it gets past the vmlinuz and initrd.img loading it goes fast again.
22:44	<loather-work> well, it's not actually transferring anything after it does that :)
22:45	it's just a load/jump instruction to boot the new kernel
22:45	<map7> I do see a lot of data moving over the network from the server to the client after that though, is that just through an NFS share?
22:46	<loather-work> likely, yes
22:47	all pxe does is load the kernel and initrd from the tftp server
22:47	after that, it's business as usual
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23:02	<map7> loather-work, the slow tftp problem seems to be my switch, but it still doesn't make sense.
23:02	It can still transfer fast over that switch just not for tftp
23:02	and if I put the same cables for the server & client into another switch it works fine.
23:07	It doesn't make sense, it's a brand new 24port gigabit TP-LINK switch (unmanaged).
23:07	that's what seems to be making it slow.
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23:13	<slashdotfx> map7: http://syslinux.zytor.com/archives/2004-July/003842.html, upgrading pxelinux?
23:20	<map7> Would upgrading the pxelinux have any affect on how tftp works over certain routers?
23:33	<johnny> probably not
23:34	but it's moe likely related to the blocksize or some other similiar parameter
23:34	vagrantc, i must thank you again :)
23:34	i went BAL<->NOL on the crescent in april
23:34	<slashdotfx> map7: or you can try atftp?
23:35	<johnny> map7, yeah.. give atftp a shot first
23:42	<map7> if i type 'atftp <my server ip>' then type 'get initrd.img' it asks me if I want to overwite local file [y/n]? (in bad english), where is it trying to put this initrd.img file?
23:43	<johnny> map7, i mean aftp server
23:43	altho i guess trying client couldn't it
23:43	couldn't hurt*
23:44	map7, it should go in your current directory
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23:46	<map7> If I answer 'y' to overwite local file, then I get tftp: error received from server < File not found>, tftp: aborting
23:46	currently I have the server on the good switch and the PXE client can download the vmlinuz and initrd.img fast
23:50	So I have a work around for this problem, I just have to use two switches. One for my server and one for my clients
23:51	it doesn't make sense, the new TP-LINK 24port gigabit switch must be playing around with the tftp packets some how.
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23:59	<slashdotfx> map7: check cable, try to swap the cable?