IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 August 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:49 | <ftherese> hello, I am using ltsp-cluster-lbserver and it fails each time I try to start it
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| 09:50 | is there any way to access the log file?
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| 10:23 | <ftherese> Can anyone help with ltsp-cluster-lbserver problems?
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| 13:05 | <KavanS> ok I have setup ltsp already on a server and have thin clients booting...is there anyway to get it to listen on vnc/rdp so I can remote to it from laptops/existing desktops as well?
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| 13:05 | ahh google is finding some results on this...
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| 13:51 | <chupacabra> exit
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| 14:41 | <nubae> hi alkisg
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| 14:41 | how's it going?
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| 14:41 | oh and hi vagrantc... thanks for the Linex intro
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| 14:52 | <vagrantc> nubae: of course!
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| 14:52 | nubae: thanks for showing me around one of sevilla's least-known tourist attractions :)
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| 15:01 | <nubae> hah
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| 15:01 | :-)
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| 15:01 | * nubae is busy building content at linux-for-education.org | |
| 15:01 | <nubae> hey... u know u could show freegeek that page
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| 15:01 | it needs a Debian section pretty badly
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> hi nubae
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| 15:02 | Damn this Empathy doesn't blink when someone talks to you :(
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| 15:02 | <ftherese> anyone here know about gettin ltsp-cluster-lbserver to work?
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| 15:02 | <nubae> well it does
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> nubae: freegeek's kind of a closet debian shop ... the machines we give away are all ubuntu
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| 15:03 | <nubae> ftherese: nope, there's a bug in it
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| 15:03 | <ftherese> did it ever work?
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| 15:03 | <vagrantc> nubae: that basically a moodle site? or that moodle clone?
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| 15:03 | <nubae> vagrantc: ah.... well it could use some ubuntu lovin too... Im just creating 2 moodle courses (the perfect ubuntu desktop, and then jazzing up your ubuntu desktop <make it look like a mac>
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| 15:04 | )
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| 15:04 | pure moodle
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| 15:04 | no clone
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| 15:04 | :-)
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| 15:04 | <ftherese> anyone have any info on an alternate way of setting up a lbserver for ltsp?
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> nubae: i'll point the site to freegeek's education coordinator and debian-edu list
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| 15:04 | <nubae> ftherese: I think stgraber is working on it... u'll have to wait I believe
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| 15:05 | excellent... I'll make whoever wants to take part an admin and they can help add content
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| 15:05 | <ftherese> are we talking about days or weeks or months?
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| 15:05 | <nubae> maybe even freegeek stuff
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| 15:05 | like how to open a computer/close one
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| 15:05 | etc
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| 15:05 | ftherese: no idea... this is OS... how long is a piece of string
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| 15:06 | <ftherese> depends on what it's tied to...
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| 15:06 | <nubae> lots of unpaid, generally overworked developers ;-)
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| 15:07 | <ftherese> we'll I'd love to help, but I haven't a clue how most of this stuff works beneath the surface
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| 15:07 | <nubae> alkisg: true, no blinking, but u get a speech bubble, think there is a blinking switch though
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| 15:08 | <johnny> empathy is still a non awesome xmpp client
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| 15:08 | <nubae> ftherese: thats the beauty of open source... its there to look at
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| 15:08 | <johnny> pidgin is better than it now
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| 15:08 | minus the geoloc :(
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| 15:08 | <nubae> johnny: don't diss it man
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| 15:08 | <johnny> why not?
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| 15:08 | <nubae> its rocking
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| 15:08 | <johnny> why not diss what sucks
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> nubae: nah if the empathy window isn't on top, there's no notification at all
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| 15:08 | <nubae> its telepathy based
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| 15:08 | and that alone makes it rock
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| 15:08 | <johnny> telepathy people won't even let you inject your own standards
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| 15:08 | i disagree
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| 15:08 | ask real xmpp developers about telepathy
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| 15:09 | telepathy is too lcd to be good
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| 15:09 | <nubae> heh, well Im currently developing xmpp collaboration with telepathy
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| 15:09 | its the only way i know of
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| 15:09 | <johnny> uhmm.. what kind of collaboration?
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| 15:09 | <nubae> bah... its just big...
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| 15:09 | some XEPs
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| 15:10 | <johnny> what i mean.. is that it'd be nice if they would actually not care so mucha bout legacy protocols
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| 15:10 | and focus on building great xmpp services
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| 15:10 | <nubae> game type stuff, sending too and fro of config files
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| 15:10 | <johnny> there's still no PEP even..
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| 15:10 | or discovery
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| 15:10 | or adhoc commands
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| 15:10 | etc
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| 15:10 | <nubae> what are u talking about
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| 15:10 | sure there is
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| 15:10 | I'm using disco extension in my app
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| 15:10 | <johnny> disco extension?
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| 15:11 | <nubae> discovery
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| 15:11 | thats what the XEP is called
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| 15:11 | <johnny> i don't see any visible interface
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| 15:11 | <nubae> u want the link?
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| 15:11 | u talking about telepathy now or empathy?
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| 15:11 | I'm talking about telepathy
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| 15:11 | <johnny> both i guess..
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| 15:12 | <nubae> well they are not the same
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| 15:12 | <johnny> telepathy won't let you inject raw stanzas in the tubes
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| 15:12 | you can only do what it exposes
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| 15:12 | i know they are different
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| 15:13 | <nubae> both PEP and disco are used by telepathy in all sugar communication
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| 15:13 | so I'm really not sure what u mean
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| 15:13 | <johnny> did they finally fix that
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| 15:13 | it seemed like they weren't last time i checked
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| 15:13 | <nubae> it is relatively new that it works as intended yeah
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| 15:14 | <johnny> what i mean tho.. is that some folks were keeping everything too LCD.. but perhaps the are moving away from that mindset FINALLY
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| 15:14 | <nubae> LCD?
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| 15:14 | <johnny> lowest common denominator
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| 15:14 | between all the supported protocols
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| 15:14 | <nubae> too many acronyms :-)
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| 15:15 | <johnny> it's the complain i used to make about pidgin.
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| 15:15 | <nubae> yeah... they are trying to make it a pretty barebones framework
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| 15:15 | <johnny> but pidgin is starting to become a better xmpp client than ever before..
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| 15:15 | which is great
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| 15:15 | <nubae> but doesnt stop u building with it
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| 15:15 | <johnny> not if you can't inject raw stanzas
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| 15:15 | <nubae> well... it doesnt do desktop sharing for one
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| 15:15 | empathy does
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> nubae: did you try it?
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| 15:16 | (with msn? how? only with empathy on the other end?)
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| 15:16 | <nubae> empathy to empathy
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> vnc-based?
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| 15:16 | <nubae> xmpp based
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> So they implement their own screen + keyboard grabbing?
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| 15:16 | <johnny> alkisg, yes.. the good stuff has to rely on xmpp
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> The transport layer isn't really important in screen sharing :)
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| 15:17 | The screen grabbing is the main problem...
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| 15:17 | <nubae> it would be cool if it really becomes cross platform so u could share a windows and a lin desktop
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| 15:17 | <vagrantc> LTSP5 is way better than any of the stuff y'all are talking about :P
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| 15:18 | <nubae> it is telepathy that has built in support for desktop sharing
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| 15:18 | thats how it does it+
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| 15:18 | heh... well a combo is the best... but I hate to say it... xmpp is the future
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> hmmm we're still on #LTSP :P
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| 15:18 | <nubae> its all gonna go that way
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| 15:18 | I think johnny agrees
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| 15:18 | <johnny> nubae, see.. i really agree with the concept of telepathy for sure
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| 15:18 | i just don't agree with the direction so far
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| 15:18 | <nubae> well, I dont follow the politics
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| 15:18 | <johnny> i have a feeling they will come around in the long term
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| 15:19 | it just sucks now
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| 15:19 | <alkisg> Woah, that sounds interesting. If telepathy has embedded support for desktop sharing, that is...
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| 15:20 | <nubae> the thing is, telepathy really has advanced collab facilities that pidgin will never have
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| 15:20 | <johnny> sure
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| 15:20 | <nubae> alkisg: it is interesting...
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| 15:20 | <johnny> of course
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> nubae: but I'm seeing this on the net: "Work has been done to share your desktop with your contacts. This is done by creating a Telepathy StreamTube with your contact and passing the VNC protocol through it."
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| 15:20 | So if it uses VNC... :(
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| 15:21 | <nubae> through a telepathy tube sure
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| 15:21 | thats how all collaboration works
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| 15:21 | with tubes
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| 15:21 | there are 2 kinds
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| 15:21 | direct data
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> Ah ok still vnc then... which client do they use?
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| 15:21 | <nubae> binary in other words
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| 15:21 | and xml based
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| 15:21 | <johnny> probably vino
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| 15:21 | or whatever
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| 15:21 | whatever that uses i mean
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> Well vino has upnp support, so why use empathy then :P :D
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| 15:21 | <KavanS> vino?
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| 15:21 | <johnny> to discover
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| 15:21 | * nubae goes read up on desktop sharing with empathy | |
| 15:22 | <johnny> alkisg, you see your friends and a click abutton
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| 15:22 | upnp can't do that
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| 15:22 | <nubae> yeah its the disco stuff which is really really cool
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| 15:22 | <johnny> that's not even disco tho
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| 15:22 | that's just presence
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| 15:22 | <nubae> and the bypassing firewalls
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| 15:22 | as if they didnt exist
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> johnny: ok that's what all the :P was about... still, it's no big deal, that could easily be supported in any app
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| 15:22 | <johnny> alkisg, you're missing the point.. this is just one of the first real features built on this
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> Ah ok tunnels right
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| 15:23 | <nubae> yeah true, but explaining the difference right now seemed a little pointless
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| 15:23 | <KavanS> hrm....using empathy on ltsp?
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| 15:23 | <johnny> alkisg, for sure we won't be using things like gobby in the future
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| 15:23 | for collaborative code writing
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| 15:23 | <nubae> alkisg: for example, my edu app... I'm building collaboration with telepathy using tubes
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| 15:23 | there are even frameworks that make it really simple like groupthink
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| 15:24 | <johnny> hmm.. anybody familiar with mexico city ?
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| 15:24 | <nubae> like 9 lines of python code allow u to create collab connections
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| 15:24 | <johnny> a friend of mine has a broken computer.. and he needs to get a new one for relatively cheap
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> OK I get the point... I just *wished* :( there was an alternative to VNC :-/
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| 15:24 | (I mean not vnc based)
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| 15:24 | <johnny> alkisg, i'm sure there will be .. eventually
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| 15:24 | <nubae> alkisg: well, in theory should be possible with xmpp
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| 15:25 | <johnny> nubae, parts are possible with xmpp...
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| 15:25 | <nubae> if video streaming and audio streaming are possible
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| 15:25 | <johnny> but most of that is only using xmpp for routing
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| 15:25 | and going out of band for p2p
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| 15:25 | <nubae> best is, go read the XEPs
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| 15:25 | u might find something in there
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> Too much to do, too little time :)
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| 15:25 | <nubae> XEP = XMPP extension plugins
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| 15:26 | <johnny> huh
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| 15:26 | no
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| 15:26 | <nubae> or is it protocols?
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| 15:26 | <johnny> proposal
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| 15:26 | alkisg, they are rfcs for xmpp basically
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| 15:26 | <nubae> relatively easy reading though
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| 15:26 | well written stuff
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| 15:26 | <johnny> altho xmpp itself does have an ietf official rfc.. these are for extensions to that protocol
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| 15:26 | <nubae> the other cool thing is xmpp bots
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| 15:27 | <KavanS> it would be nice if pidgin had sip and sipvideo support
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| 15:27 | <johnny> managed by the xmpp standards foundation.. not the ietf
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| 15:27 | <nubae> serving config files to programs and such
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| 15:27 | <KavanS> well video support in general...but sip would be nice too
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| 15:27 | <johnny> sip is gonna die KavanS
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| 15:27 | it does have video now KavanS
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| 15:27 | in 2.6 that is
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> I think pidgin now has video support
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| 15:27 | <KavanS> johnny, what will replace SIP?
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| 15:27 | <johnny> jingle
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| 15:27 | which is what nubae is talking about here
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| 15:27 | <KavanS> yeah, I saw news about it supporting video
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| 15:28 | <johnny> not immediately of course.. but seems likely in the long term
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> Damn this empathy font/background hurts my eyes... /me reboots to jaunty :)
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| 15:28 | * nubae is using karmic... | |
| 15:28 | <nubae> its gonna be a nice release
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| 15:28 | <johnny> as you can see.. simple is not really gaining any traction whatsoever
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| 15:28 | <nubae> simple?
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| 15:29 | <johnny> the im+presence extension of sip
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| 15:29 | <nubae> oh
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| 15:29 | <johnny> it is championed by MS amongst others
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| 15:29 | but is overly complicated and not really gaining outside implementations
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| 15:30 | and as more people rely on xmpp for presence.. it seems likely that they will use it for voice and video too
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| 15:30 | <nubae> another reason to use empathy
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| 15:31 | alkisg has left #ltsp | |
| 15:31 | <KavanS> what?
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| 15:31 | <johnny> empathy will probably never be my client of choice
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| 15:31 | <KavanS> yeah SIP sucks for NAT, I know that...
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| 15:31 | I prefer pidgin for general IM
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| 15:31 | <johnny> it is meant for new users
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| 15:31 | i need something for advanced users
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| 15:31 | that's why i still use gajim
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| 15:31 | <nubae> I've not really looked at the 2 side by side... but I'd guess video/audio streaming works far better under xmpp
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| 15:31 | <KavanS> i need something that enables me to detect snitches
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| 15:32 | <johnny> nubae, let me know when empathy supports transports :)
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| 15:32 | KavanS, you're probably the snitch
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| 15:32 | <KavanS> johnny, I'm kidding
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| 15:32 | <johnny> see.. look how easy that was.. i just detected one :)
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| 15:32 | lol
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| 15:32 | <KavanS> lol
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| 15:32 | what is gajim?
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| 15:32 | <nubae> transports implemented in what way?
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| 15:32 | <johnny> a xmpp only client
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| 15:32 | nubae, server side transports
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| 15:33 | i have aim, facebook, myspace, irc
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| 15:33 | it is actually built on libpurple
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| 15:33 | spectrum.im
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| 15:33 | <KavanS> oh, that is like l33t times 49 or something damn
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| 15:33 | <johnny> i'm one of the contributors.. sorta
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| 15:33 | <KavanS> yeah, I like a separate irc client I guess
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| 15:33 | cool
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| 15:33 | <johnny> i'm not really good at C++.. so i am helpin in other ways.. like db design and teaching him how to use git
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| 15:34 | i like my transport. .because wherever i login.. my channels follow me
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| 15:34 | as they are bookmarked on the server
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| 15:34 | <nubae> oh thats what u mean
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| 15:34 | well... cant be hard to code
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| 15:34 | I'm sure its in the works
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| 15:34 | <johnny> just waiting for the patch for ejabberd to be implemented that allows it to work in a more screen like fashion
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| 15:35 | * vagrantc can't count the number of times the future FOO has been discussed on #ltsp and then disappeared a few months later | |
| 15:35 | <johnny> so that when you login it doesn't require you to choose a new nick and be in there tewice
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| 15:35 | <nubae> last I read it worked already... or am I missing something
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| 15:35 | <johnny> nubae, i'll see what happens in 2.27
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| 15:35 | i'm going to upgrade to fedora12 alpha soon
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| 15:35 | <nubae> FOO?
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| 15:35 | <johnny> it sure ain't right in 2.26
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| 15:35 | <nubae> all these damn acronyms
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| 15:35 | <johnny> no pep there as far as i can tell
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> nubae: also BAR
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| 15:35 | <nubae> :-)
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| 15:36 | <johnny> let alone transports..
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| 15:36 | <nubae> in ejabberd?
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| 15:36 | <johnny> huh? 'm talking about empathy
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| 15:36 | <nubae> just waiting for the patch for ejabberd to be implemented that allows it to work in a more screen like fashion
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| 15:36 | * vagrantc wonders what happened to LTSP | |
| 15:36 | <nubae> u confused me
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| 15:36 | <KavanS> so does anyone use a voip app with ltsp?
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| 15:36 | <johnny> that's something i need to make logging into multiple accounts be more natural nubae
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| 15:37 | <KavanS> more specifically a sip client?
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| 15:37 | <johnny> gizmo? ekiga?
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| 15:37 | * vagrantc is talking about antipathy | |
| 15:37 | <KavanS> johnny, yeah I tried getting ekiga to work...that failed...
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> vagrantc: c'mon, it's Sunday... no'ones working in #ltsp today :)
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| 15:37 | <johnny> well go get it to work KavanS
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| 15:37 | i'm sure somebody can help you
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| 15:37 | just not us
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| 15:37 | <KavanS> ha
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| 15:37 | <nubae> XMLTSPP
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| 15:37 | :-)
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| 15:38 | <johnny> nubae, atm leaving a client logged in somewhere, and then logging in elsewhere, does not work very well for chat rooms of any type.. you have to be in the chatroom twice for it to work
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| 15:38 | the patch will allow it to kinda attach to the same username..
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| 15:38 | <nubae> right, I read about that in the XEPs somewhere
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| 15:39 | <johnny> it's in the muc xep .. there just aren't any server implementations as far as i know
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| 15:39 | <nubae> been trying to read up as much as possible via the ejabberd forums
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| 15:39 | lot of good info there
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| 15:39 | even considering learning ERLANG
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| 15:39 | <johnny> also.. something i'm excited about.. is server side message storage :) going to be implemented in gajim soon
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| 15:39 | <nubae> but I disconsidered that fast
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| 15:39 | <johnny> erlang isn't that bad
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| 15:40 | but perhaps you miht want to look into the prosody server
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| 15:40 | <nubae> gah.... immutable variables
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| 15:40 | <johnny> read metajack.im blog.. you'll see why he dislikes mutable variables :)
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| 15:40 | <nubae> I did consider that too... or maybe LUA
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| 15:40 | <KavanS> ok, so...random question, can ltsp enable a workstation to use a usb scanner?
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| 15:40 | <johnny> for the way ejabberd works.. immutable variables are kinda required
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| 15:40 | <KavanS> ex: scanner plugged into workstation, then somehow it's patched to ltsp session?
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| 15:40 | <johnny> with the clustering and actor based programming paradigm
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| 15:41 | nubae, prosody is in lua..
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| 15:41 | <nubae> johnny: my brain doesnt get as far as wrapping around erlang and its methodology
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| 15:41 | <johnny> mostly anyways.. there is some C++ in the gloox lib
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| 15:41 | <nubae> oh... thats the one I was looking at then
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| 15:42 | synapse seems like a cute client
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| 15:42 | <johnny> the muc implementation there is definitely incomplete tho.. :)
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| 15:42 | i don't know.. i thought it was kinda lame..
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| 15:42 | <nubae> but a little too ahead of the game
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| 15:42 | well, it doesnt work
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| 15:42 | but has a lot of impelmentations
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| 15:42 | or... its trying a lot
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| 15:43 | <johnny> you'll want to wait to deplly prosody for awhile.. the muc support just gained admin and channel config 2 days ago
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| 15:43 | <nubae> heh ok
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| 15:43 | <johnny> it is still in heavy devel
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| 15:43 | you might want to keep tabs to.. or you could go the java route via tigase..
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| 15:43 | <nubae> there was another client that seemed really cool for deving... what was it again
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| 15:43 | <johnny> not sure..
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| 15:43 | <nubae> :-)
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| 15:43 | <johnny> tkabber, psi, gajim.. those are the only good devving clients i know of..
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| 15:44 | <nubae> tkabber
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| 15:44 | <johnny> and gajim implements more than psi (altho psi does have voice and video)
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| 15:44 | i don't know tho.. gajim might be matching tkabber now
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| 15:44 | <nubae> but its tk...
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| 15:44 | not very powerful language
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| 15:44 | but easy
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| 15:45 | <johnny> gajim gives me tkabber one window style interface .. so that is good enough.. plus it is in python :)
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| 15:45 | <nubae> oh well, python major +
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| 15:45 | at work we are looking for a client that we can dev
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| 15:45 | something really really simple to begin with
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| 15:46 | so teachers dont have so many options
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| 15:46 | but some requirements, like file collecting from server
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc> df -h
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| 15:46 | <nubae> well developed muc
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| 15:47 | disco and presence for locating where kids are
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| 15:47 | actviity support maybe (kid x is working on app X
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| 15:47 | that kind of thing
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| 16:13 | u know what rocks.... devhelp...
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| 16:13 | discovered that recently
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| 16:22 | bf has joined #ltsp | |
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| 16:22 | <stgraber> just pushed a minimal implementation of ltsp fat client
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| 16:23 | <bf> stgraber: what does that mean?
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| 16:23 | <stgraber> just need to push a ltsp-build-client script as well and it should be ready for some better integration
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| 16:23 | <bf> stgraber: is it for clusters?
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| 16:23 | <stgraber> not only
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| 16:24 | instead of having everything on an application server with some local applications, it's all on the thin client with some applications on the application server
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| 16:24 | nubae implemented it a while ago, the upstream implementation uses what's already there
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| 16:24 | it's basically a 4 line change to the code
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| 16:24 | <bf> stgraber: that sounds nice...
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> So nubae's code is now upstream?
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| 16:25 | <nubae> oh nice
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| 16:25 | :-)
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> nubae: time for bug squashing :P :D
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| 16:25 | <stgraber> alkisg: not really
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| 16:26 | <nubae> it actually looked pretty good last time I looked
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| 16:26 | <stgraber> my implementation allows mixed setup with the same chroot for both thin and fat client
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| 16:26 | it also uses ldm for everyone
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| 16:26 | <nubae> also... its not exactly bigh
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| 16:26 | <stgraber> and sshfs to mount the /home and for login/group
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> stgraber: ah, so it isn't nubae's code, I misunderstood...
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| 16:26 | <stgraber> alkisg: it's the same idea, but done quite differently
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| 16:26 | <nubae> stgraber: we tried to install ltspcluster at Guadalinex
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| 16:26 | to check it out
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| 16:26 | had problems with lbagent
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| 16:27 | <stgraber> nubae: yeah, Karmic is a bit broken
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| 16:27 | <nubae> oh sshfs much better
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| 16:27 | <stgraber> I wanted to have everything in before FF, I'll fix that soon
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| 16:27 | nubae: yeah, basically you have a regular chroot + ubuntu-desktop installed and on session open you either use ssh to start /etc/X11/Xsession remotely or just start it locally
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| 16:28 | it could then be a flag in ldm to let you choose between thin and fat client
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| 16:28 | or as it's currently the case, a lts.conf setting
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> stgraber: so that fat client implementation is *in* for Karmic?
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| 16:28 | <nubae> lts.conf setting sounds sufficient I guess, though what happens if u have different kinds of fat clients?
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| 16:28 | <stgraber> alkisg: not yet but I may find a way to get it in
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> Is it on your ppa now?
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| 16:29 | <stgraber> alkisg: if it doesn't make it for Karmic, it'll be in my PPA anyway
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> Nice :)
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| 16:29 | <stgraber> alkisg: nope, I commited the patch like 5 minutes ago :)
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| 16:29 | <bf> nubae: you feed different kinds of fatty foods
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| 16:29 | <nubae> :p
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> Heh ok too soon :)
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| 16:30 | <stgraber> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1183?start_revid=1183
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| 16:30 | quite small diff as I was saying :)
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| 16:30 | <nubae> ok, so I can redirect people from my fatclient page to the new location I guess.... or I guess just a message that as of karmic its built in
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| 16:31 | <stgraber> I'd wait for a complete implementation, it's really just a draft and I need to publish a ltsp-build-client plugin for it
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| 16:31 | but after that it should be in a pretty good shape
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| 16:31 | <nubae> k
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| 16:31 | <stgraber> also, I have on the roadmap for next hackfest to implement ltsp-remoteapp
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| 16:31 | basically the same as localapp but the other way around
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| 16:32 | <stgraber> as my implementation uses a ssh socket, I can start a few applications on the application server and have everything else locally
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| 16:32 | so for example you could have OpenOffice on the application server and everything else local
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| 16:39 | <nubae> cool
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| 16:39 | * alkisg waits eagerly for the ppa upload :) | |
| 16:39 | <nubae> biggest issue me and vagrant are seeing at least in Spain are that schools have made the stupid decision to implement wireless with netbooks
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| 16:40 | its a political decision
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| 16:40 | and now the questions being asked are, how do we make ltsp work with wireless
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| 16:40 | which of course has no answer
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> It would be nice if the scripts for sound redirection etc could be seperated, so that a standalone client could connect to the server and experience something similar to ltsp...
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| 16:41 | I.e. ssh -X with sound
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| 16:42 | <nubae> or no easy answer... but one idea that came to mind was... using stateless connections to disconnect and reconnect from local to ltsp
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| 16:42 | alkisg: right!
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| 16:42 | my thinking exacly
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| 16:42 | so lets say netbook has a cache of sorts
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| 16:43 | when in ltsp area, it uses its resources in as far as possible
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| 16:43 | then when the student takes the netbook home, he uses local fat client
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| 16:43 | and the computer stores all changes to cache, synching the following day when he goes back into ltsp area
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| 16:43 | <nubae> dont know if that makes sense
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| 16:43 | <stgraber> from the experience I had with netbook and wireless, it's not really possible to run that over wireless, mainly because of the bandwidth usage
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| 16:44 | what we usually do in these cases is using the same infrastructure we have to syncronize our ltsp server but for netbooks
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| 16:44 | that way netbooks always have the same configuration as application servers
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| 16:44 | <nubae> yeah, but making it just do the synching wireless
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| 16:44 | korcan has joined #ltsp | |
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| 16:45 | <nubae> so... users who have netbooks, would still plug in when in school
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| 16:45 | but unplug when they go home
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| 16:45 | keeping same sets of files and configuration
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| 16:45 | I dont know how to explain it
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| 16:45 | its not really LTSP anymore
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| 16:47 | as far as I can picture it, the user needs to have a fat client either way, both ltsp wise and when he goes home
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| 16:47 | perhaps using your reverse localapps makes the most sense here
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| 16:47 | 1 or 2 apps run off server (lets say security sense ones)
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| 16:48 | <bf> sorry... a question
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| 16:48 | unrelated... kind of
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| 16:48 | <nubae> and then /home and config files synch when disconnection happens... but the feeling needs to be seamless
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| 16:49 | ie, user can't be told... oh now u're using this, and now u are using that... will totally throw them off, things are complicated enough as they are
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| 16:49 | !question
| |
| 16:49 | <ltspbot> nubae: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
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| 16:49 | <nubae> :-) heh, thats the most useful bot command of all me thinks :-)
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| 16:49 | <bf> if you have two ltsp servers, one of them would be dhcp server... could ...
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| 16:50 | right
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| 16:50 | the other one be "nextserver" in the conf file?
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| 16:50 | does that work?
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| 16:50 | <nubae> anwyay, its a good use case scenario for reverse local apps
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| 16:50 | tyhe other what?
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> bf, yes, the dhcp server can be on a different machine than the ltsp server
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| 16:51 | ftherese has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:52 | <nubae> well here he wants one with dhcp server, and the other alone
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| 16:52 | <ftherese> well... I was trying the cluster method
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| 16:52 | but it seems like there are some kinks to be worked out
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| 16:52 | <nubae> stgraber is working on it
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| 16:52 | he said it might be all worked out for karmic
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| 16:52 | he was just here...
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> stgraber: it should probably use LDM_DEFAULT_XSESSION rather than the server's LDM_XSESSION
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| 16:53 | stgraber: for the LTSP_FATCLIENT
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| 16:53 | since that will actually be an XSESSION file on the thin client
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| 16:53 | <ftherese> um...
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| 16:54 | sorry, I was disconnected a second ago
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| 16:54 | <stgraber> vagrantc: well, I was planning on modifying a bit the ldm scripts that usually retrieve the list of available sessions to check locally instead of on the server
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| 16:54 | <nubae> I'd like to see that in action... so all the code is in PPA ready to go, or still some last bits being worked on?
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| 16:55 | vagrantc: btw... LTSP has been eliminated as possible solution for old computer setups :-(
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| 16:55 | <vagrantc> stgraber: well, that's what LDM_DEFAULT_XSESSION should be set to
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| 16:55 | nubae: ah well
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| 16:55 | <nubae> made me very sad..
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| 16:56 | but to be honest... with wireless everywhere, and them not wanting to throw any money at all at the old stuff, and no maintanance people.,..
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| 16:56 | its probably a good thing
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| 16:56 | <vagrantc> better to not do it at all that to do it poorly :)
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| 16:56 | <alkisg> nubae: "for old computer setups" ==> so you just throw them away?
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| 16:57 | <nubae> hehe... vagrantc u wanna explain that can of worms?
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| 16:57 | <alkisg> Here we mostly use ltsp for old labs :)
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| 16:57 | <stgraber> nubae: you can take current karmic and apply that 5 lines patch I posted on IRC before
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| 16:58 | <nubae> u see Spain is really advanced in that area.... so advanced in fact that we dont even have a procedure for getting rid of old stuff
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| 16:58 | ok... still got it open
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| 16:59 | alkisg: we let the fairies take away the computers in the middle of the night
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| 16:59 | and hope for some euros to be left in return
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| 16:59 | <alkisg> Right. We lack the €€€ for the fairies to replace them with newer PCs :)
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| 16:59 | johnny has left #ltsp | |
| 16:59 | <nubae> but the fairies seem quite stingy...
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| 16:59 | <vagrantc> nubae: the "we've got tons and tons of electronic (a.k.a. toxic) waste and just storing it in warehouses" problem?
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| 17:00 | <nubae> hehe... it doesnt even get to the warehouse
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| 17:00 | used as target practice for soccer usually
| |
| 17:00 | or <place your sport or targetting activity here>
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| 17:01 | jeeez it makes u think...
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| 17:01 | alkisg: we are forced... every year to spend X on new machines
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| 17:01 | ftherese1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:01 | <nubae> even if we dont need or want them
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| 17:01 | <ftherese1> Someone was messing with the router settings
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> Woah... I should move 2 timezones to the left :)
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| 17:01 | <vagrantc> nubae: maybe you should just start buying more expensive machines?
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| 17:01 | <ftherese1> and I lost connection
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| 17:01 | <nubae> the old ones, however are not allowed to be moved since they are gov. property... cant be taken home
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| 17:02 | and they wont pay for someone to take care of the problem
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| 17:02 | so they get put to one side of the room and gather dust
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| 17:02 | well its all EU money, so what do they care
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| 17:02 | <nubae> same thing should really be happenning with Greece
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| 17:02 | but somehow they got the short end of the stick there
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| 17:03 | <ftherese1> I still have my same old question though... if I have one ltsp server set up as dhcp server
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| 17:03 | can I add another server as nextserver?
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| 17:03 | <nubae> Spain has managed to secure a pretty enourmous stream of unaccountable funding
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| 17:03 | korcan has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:03 | <ftherese1> sorry for asking the question over and over again
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| 17:03 | I just keep getting disconnected
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> (12:51:12 πμ) alkisg: bf, yes, the dhcp server can be on a different machine than the ltsp server <<== ftherese
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| 17:04 | <ftherese1> no... ltsp server, and dhcp server same machine... but an additional ltsp server
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| 17:04 | <nubae> would it auto load balance he means
| |
| 17:04 | <ftherese1> I am not worried about any automated load balancing right now
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| 17:04 | <nubae> i guess it would yes
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| 17:04 | <ftherese1> I just want to know if it will work
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| 17:04 | <vagrantc> nubae: not knowing the politics of the EU particularly, but it seems like the EU should require as part of their funding process a disposal plan for un-used equipment
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> I don't get it. If you don't want load balancing, what would the second server do?
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| 17:05 | <ftherese1> It will load balance... just not automatically
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| 17:05 | <nubae> sit there and look nice of course :-)
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| 17:05 | <ftherese1> load balance in the sense that there are two servers
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| 17:05 | instead of one...
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| 17:05 | <vagrantc> nubae: state governments across the US are requiring hardware manufacturers to start putting money into responsible recycling programs.
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| 17:05 | (well, at least oregon and washington)
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| 17:05 | <ftherese1> but as for calculating which server is being more used or whatever, I wouldn't expect it to do that for the moment
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| 17:05 | <vagrantc> some provinces in canada, too
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| 17:06 | <nubae> vagrantc: if only that happened here
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> ftherese1: how do you plan on sending a different next-server option to different PCs ?
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| 17:06 | By macaddress?
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| 17:06 | <nubae> ftherese i think it will do that automatically, ie if one is more loaded than another connection will happen quicke with unloaded server
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| 17:06 | no?
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| 17:07 | <ftherese1> probably that is true
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> nubae: you mean with 2 dhcp servers?!!!
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| 17:07 | <ftherese1> not two dhcp servers
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| 17:07 | in the dhcp.conf file
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> nubae: well, it took some work to get it here ... and still needs a lot of improvement ... but some similar strategy would be worth exploring...
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| 17:07 | <ftherese1> you can set "nextserver"
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| 17:07 | <nubae> vagrantc: u have some documentation I can nag a higher up with?
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| 17:07 | <ftherese1> I just want to know if that will work
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| 17:08 | <nubae> ftherese we think so yes, try it
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| 17:08 | <ftherese1> ok
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| 17:08 | <vagrantc> nubae: if it's EU money that's actually causing the problem, then it seems like the EU should figure out *some* way to actually deal with it responsibly
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> ftherese1: first, take a look at this: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#id2699232
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| 17:08 | nubae: I don't think so :)
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| 17:08 | bf has quit IRC | |
| 17:08 | <nubae> ahhhh.. but u see the reponsibiity is now Spains
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| 17:08 | :-)
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| 17:08 | since they took the money
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| 17:08 | <vagrantc> nubae: i can dig some stuff up ... you looking for the state e-waste programs and such?
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| 17:09 | <nubae> and u think they will spend it on that?
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| 17:09 | <vagrantc> nubae: yes, well, it's not unheard of to have strings attached to money
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| 17:09 | <nubae> vagrantc: yeah would be great
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| 17:09 | <nubae> I think they just dont want to deal with the problem, they want to do the ostrich and pretend Spain is behaving responsibly
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| 17:09 | <excalibur> ubuntu - lstp install ... client = dell gx260 .. intel video ... enter username + password.. then get black screen.. any ideas?
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| 17:10 | <nubae> excalibur: video issue
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| 17:10 | <excalibur> how to fix it?
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| 17:10 | <nubae> probably set to 16bit color or 15 bit color if its a intel chip
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| 17:10 | <excalibur> was the same with k12linux
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| 17:11 | where would i do that?
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| 17:11 | <nubae> in lts.conf
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| 17:11 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 17:11 | <ftherese1> thank you for the article alkisg... I read that earlier today
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| 17:11 | <excalibur> but there is no lts.conf in ubuntu's install of ltsp
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| 17:11 | <nubae> first set xconf=true, then check docs..
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| 17:11 | <ftherese1> it was helpful... but you have to set up a ldap server
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| 17:11 | <nubae> excalibur: sure there is
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| 17:11 | <ftherese1> and that was another can of worms
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| 17:12 | <excalibur> there is none in /tftpboot/ltsp/i386 ...
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| 17:12 | <nubae> excalibur: u need to create a file with [default] as first line and place it in /var/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
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| 17:12 | <excalibur> and the one that i did find was empty
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| 17:12 | <nubae> and add options in there
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| 17:13 | ftherese has quit IRC | |
| 17:13 | <nubae> anyway....
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| 17:13 | !docs
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| 17:13 | <ltspbot> nubae: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 17:13 | <ftherese1> so, let me get this straight... I'd have to setup ldap and nfs if I want to add an additional server?
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| 17:17 | <ftherese1> where is the LDM_SERVER parameter defined?
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| 17:18 | anybody?
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| 17:18 | <alexqwesa> lts.conf ?
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| 17:18 | <ftherese1> where is the right version of that file?
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| 17:19 | <alexqwesa> find -name lts.conf /
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| 17:19 | <nubae> read above
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| 17:20 | if u dont follow the instructions, its difficult for us to help
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| 17:40 | <ftherese1> honestly, I've read a lot already, but it is starting to blend together...
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| 17:47 | <nubae> well everything is defined in only one place
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| 17:47 | in only one file
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| 17:48 | so u cant really go wrong there
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| 22:16 | <BCM43> is it possible to install k12linux EL after a install of CentOS is done?
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| 22:18 | <BCM43> /join #centos
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| 22:27 | map7|away is now known as map7 | |
| 22:27 | <map7> Can anyone help me with a mouse related problem on my LTSP 5 PXE client?
| |
| 22:29 | my mouse works but the cursor is half missing and looks bad, the rest of my screen is fine
| |
| 22:29 | This is a new thin client which I just plugged in and it runs an ATI video card and my server runs a Nvidia card.
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| 22:29 | I've got the nvidia drivers installed as I need those on the dual monitor server.
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| 22:32 | My server is an Ubuntu 904 32bit with LTSP 5.
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| 22:37 | <beakburke> The video card in the server is irrelvant
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| 22:38 | I'd say it's an ATI driver issue most likely
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| 22:38 | <map7> so can I install the ATI driver just for that one client?
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| 22:38 | or better still install the ATI driver for all but only use it for that one client?
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| 22:38 | <beakburke> You might want to see what driver the thin client is actually using
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| 22:39 | I think there is a PCI id list that determines what driver it grabs
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| 22:39 | it might be just using the VESA driver
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| 22:40 | <map7> how do I check?
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| 22:40 | my xorg.conf shows nvidia, but it reads that off the server
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| 22:40 | <beakburke> geez, been a while since I used Ubuntu
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| 22:40 | <map7> lspci -v shows me info
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| 22:40 | about all my cards
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| 22:40 | <beakburke> the xorg.conf is just for the server
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| 22:40 | <beakburke> you need to run that on the client
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| 22:41 | the easiest way might to use a livecd to boot it
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| 22:41 | there's a switch that gives you the pci id number
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| 22:42 | <johnny> no.. the easiest way
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| 22:42 | is to go to console on the client
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| 22:42 | <beakburke> -n
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| 22:42 | if you have a console on the client
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| 22:42 | <johnny> you don't need to use a livecd
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| 22:42 | you always have one
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| 22:42 | you just have to turn it on
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| 22:42 | <beakburke> that's with i mean
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| 22:42 | <johnny> or.. if you'r eusing a new enough distro
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| 22:42 | you can might be able to do this
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| 22:42 | <beakburke> if he didn't want to turn that on
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| 22:43 | <johnny> ltsp-localapps lspci
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| 22:43 | or ltsp-localapp maybe
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| 22:43 | <beakburke> I think you can just turn that on in the ltsp.conf file
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| 22:43 | <johnny> localapps are enabled by default
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| 22:44 | <beakburke> I didn't think localapps were by default now, but I haven't been using Ubuntu, so that might be true now
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| 22:44 | Last one I tested was Fedora 10
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| 22:45 | <johnny> they are enabled by default most likely in fedora 11.. as they aren't used unless you forcefully chose to via ltsp-localapp command
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| 22:45 | err fedora10.. but definitely in fedora 11
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| 22:46 | <map7> ok looks like ltsp-localapps is deafult under ubuntu 904
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| 22:46 | so i've been able to do a 'ltsp-localapps xterm'
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| 22:46 | <johnny> yes
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| 22:46 | <map7> and then a lspci
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| 22:46 | <johnny> there you go
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| 22:46 | <beakburke> either way, you can get the ID number of the video card but running lspci -n on the thin client
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| 22:46 | <johnny> sure.. i just wanted him to know the easy way
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| 22:46 | and no.. there's no easy way to use the nvidia driver for just one machine
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| 22:46 | or ati for that matter
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| 22:47 | i mean.. you can.. but you're going to bloat them all by 30M mem usage
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| 22:47 | <beakburke> can't you specify that in the lts.conf file by the MAC address
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| 22:47 | <johnny> there's probably a good X* option
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| 22:47 | yes
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| 22:47 | but you will bloat all clients by 30M
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| 22:47 | <map7> so I get the ID: 1002:95c4 for my Radeon HD3400 series
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| 22:48 | ok well my clients all have 1GB of ram so it would be ok to use 30MB of that for the ATI or Nvidia driver per client
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| 22:49 | some have Nvidia some are ATI
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| 22:49 | but this one I'm trying to get working is ATI
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| 22:50 | <johnny> ok
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| 22:50 | then just install the restricted driver package i think
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| 22:50 | in the chroot
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| 22:50 | you might not have to specify the drivers manually
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| 22:50 | <map7> then re-build my client image?
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| 22:50 | <johnny> yes
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| 23:05 | <map7> johnny I just booted the ubuntu live cd to see if it has the same problem and it does. It's using the ATI opensource driver I think
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| 23:10 | <beakburke> Hence my live cd suggestion :D
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| 23:11 | now you know it's the driver
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| 23:11 | you can either use the VESA driver or the ATI binary then
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| 23:12 | <map7> yeah I'll just need to work out how to install that nicely under ubuntu without using their hardware manager tool
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| 23:13 | i put the XSERVER = 'vesa' into my default section of my lts.conf file for all ltsp clients before but that has it's own problems. ie: it doesn't allow me to use high resolution or wide screen resolutions. The mouse looks great though.
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| 23:18 | <beakburke> the vesa driver is really just a workaround
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| 23:18 | it's not great, just functional
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| 23:18 | I you CAN specify vesa for just that client
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| 23:19 | [MAC address]
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| 23:19 | <map7> ok is that done in the lts.conf file?
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| 23:20 | and once I've installed the ATI proprietary driver can I do the same but with that driver in the lts.conf file?
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| 23:20 | <beakburke> yep
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| 23:20 | it's how you'd specify any per client options
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| 23:21 | in this case XSERVER = "drivername"
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| 23:21 | <map7> oh yeah I see, that's really handy
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| 23:22 | <beakburke> under the [MAC address] (or [hostname] if you have names and resolution working on the thin clients
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| 23:22 | man lts.conf will give you a whole list of parameters IIRC
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| 23:23 | <map7> I'm looking at that now.
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| 23:23 | I just found out about this lts.conf file today, looks like this will help solve a few issues with my setup.
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| 23:25 | <beakburke> Thats where the power is, once you get the basics of the setup down
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| 23:26 | Once I make sure the HowTo is still good for Fedora 11, I think I might try to get LTSP integrated into slackware 13
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| 23:26 | that should be interesting
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| 23:26 | read: a lot of work
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| 23:27 | <johnny> less work now..
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| 23:27 | since the work to get fedora and gentoo working
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| 23:27 | got rid of lots of ubuntuisms
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| 23:27 | <beakburke> true
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| 23:27 | that's why I'm thinking about this now
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| 23:27 | course Slackware uses the BSD style init system
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| 23:28 | so that might be interesting
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| 23:28 | although I think you CAN use the sysV style too, it's just kind of annoying
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| 23:28 | gets messy
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| 23:28 | we'll see
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| 23:28 | <beakburke> something to try with all my free time
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| 23:29 | :D
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