IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 November 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 16:12 | <markit> hi alkisg
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| 16:12 | my scripts that I'm perfectioning for my own usage for ltsp install and config need to modify config files... I' doning a lot of sed / grep /awk. AFAIR, with sch-script you provide your own "full version" usually instead of try to "patch" the regular ones?
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| 16:12 | i.e. squid has a lot of options, and I have to modify only 3-4, and I've no idea about what the other mean
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| 16:12 | also I try to configure /etc/network/interfaces requiring eth0 is wan and configured, and adding eth1 or bond1
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| 16:12 | seems a lot of work... I'm at 50% more or less
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| 16:12 | (and a bit frustrated...)
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| 16:12 | also I want to provide some options
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| 16:12 | like "want squid?" or "wand dansguard?"
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| 16:13 | and depending upon those answer I've to install configure and... modify shorewall rules
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| 16:13 | I would need a big control over config files of those programs
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| 16:14 | also upon the environment... i.e. to get the default gw I have found a bash script
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| 16:14 | but there are not easy bash commands to do so, like an imaginary
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| 16:14 | "ip show defaulg gw --provide_interface_name_only
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> markit, about bonding, I wrote my one and only experience in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Trunking
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| 16:16 | And I also know that the next network manager version will support bonding, that's about all I know
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| 16:16 | <markit> yep, I red it and was my way to learn how to configure, thanks
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| 16:16 | oh, I remove network manager, don't you?
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> I'm usually prefering to keep network-manager
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| 16:16 | <markit> I config /etc/mnetwork/itnerfaces
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> The teachers can see that the cable is disconnected with it, etc
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| 16:17 | Or the network properties, network speed...
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| 16:17 | <markit> and misconfigure it? ;P
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> And they can setup VPN connections if they need
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| 16:17 | <markit> oh, sorry
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| 16:17 | I keep forgetting
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| 16:17 | my teachers are not IT expert
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| 16:17 | yours are
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> No, they're not
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| 16:17 | <markit> ops, don't they teach IT?
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> That doesn't make them IT experts, or even plain linux users :)
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| 16:18 | But if they have permission to change the network settings, they should know better than to break it
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| 16:18 | <markit> hahaha, sure, but mine don't even teach IT, so...
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| 16:18 | <alkisg> Don't give them permission to change network settings if you don't trust them
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| 16:18 | <markit> well, in my current setup they are all admins
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| 16:18 | so they can act upon user's account etc
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| 16:19 | but I'm planning to have only one teacher be admin
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> Yeah same here
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| 16:19 | <markit> the one that learns at least the basics
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| 16:19 | also "reset" user's account is something that should be possible for all teachers, but you need to be admin
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| 16:19 | let's see if epopte's way is good for me too
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> About configuration files, we usually drop a new configuration file in packages that have a config.d directory, like dnsmasq or squid
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| 16:20 | <markit> (only connected accounts)
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> If not, then we modify the configuration file, adding some ----HEADER---- and ----FOOTER---- for our modifications
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| 16:20 | <markit> alkisg: ok, but a generic one you have to customize? i.e. you can have a 2 nic interface server, or only one nic, or 1+bonding...
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> For the default gw etc, network manager has dbus calls to find out
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| 16:20 | But you're not using network manager, so yeah you need a good bash script
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| 16:20 | <markit> oh, never used dbus from ruby
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| 16:21 | I'm not expert of awk and so on...
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> dbus-send is a console program, you can use that
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| 16:21 | <markit> is there an easy way to searc for a value inside a "block" with my own headers like you suggest?
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| 16:22 | so I could modify on the fly if needed (like disable danguardian redirection)
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| 16:22 | I planned, in config files taht support "online comments"
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| 16:22 | to add a tag
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| 16:22 | so I can grep for the value + mytag
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> Yes, sed supports addresses separated with commas
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| 16:23 | Grep the sch-scripts sources for sed, we have a couple of examples there
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| 16:23 | ---BEGIN sch-scripts---- or something similar
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| 16:23 | <markit> great, thanks a lot for the tips
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| 16:27 | <alkisg> E.g. this deletes the additional network modules we add to the initramfs: sed -i '/# BEGIN added by sch-scripts/,/# END added by sch-scripts/d' /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
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| 16:28 | <markit> alkisg: btw, in your wonderful wiki page about bonding, there is the subtitle "This wiki page is specific to Ubuntu Version(s): 8.10", i don't think is the case
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> Yes I think it works in recent versions too, but one has to try it before changing the header :)
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| 16:29 | <markit> I've done with 11.04
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| 16:29 | well, not the speed tests, the config
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> Cool, so you can put that in the header
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| 16:29 | Of course, no need for speed testing, as long as it works
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| 16:31 | <markit> "If you have a managed switch, you may need to configure it in order for bonding to work. " as far as you told me, for bonding mode 0 you don't need help from switch
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| 16:31 | or a managed could prevent it from working?
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| 16:31 | (like stopping broadcast by default)
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> Maybe, unfortunately I never saw a managed switch in greek schools :(
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| 16:32 | <markit> I see :)
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> I've heard of switches here stopping broadcasted traffic like dhcp
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| 16:32 | No idea what they can do to bonding
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| 16:33 | <markit> not only dhcp, but also multimedia etc broadcast
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| 16:34 | <markit> they tend to overcomplicate things... should be dumb by default
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| 16:34 | and then, if YOU need to enable some feature, be free to do so
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| 16:51 | <matrix3000> alkis, really?
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| 16:51 | you've never seen a managed switch in Greek Schools?
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| 17:42 | <markit> matrix3000: "real" managed switch (layer3) are really costly (like hp procurve)
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| 17:42 | I've cheap ones, layer2 but with web interface and some sort of controls
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| 17:42 | they are very good, features and "cheap"
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| 17:42 | <vagrantc> huh. scotty fixed a bug in libnss-sshsock that i can't reproduce with the old version.
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| 17:42 | <markit> (like my recent netgear prosefe 24)
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| 18:06 | <matrix3000> what about a cisco layer 2
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| 18:06 | managed switches have nothing to do with layer 2 vs layer 3
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| 18:06 | layer 3 switches just offer routing functionality
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| 18:07 | they are more advanced
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| 18:07 | managed vs unmanaged are basically dumb switches with no vlan or console management
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| 18:08 | but recently switches have hit the market which are like the netgear prosafe series where they don't offer console, but they are configurable layer 2 switches
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| 18:08 | instead of layer 2 unconfigurable (workgroup) switches
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| 18:09 | we use both here at our office, although i would prefer more layer 2 cisco switches
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| 18:09 | just because I have used and studied cisco for years
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| 18:09 | since sophmore year in high school
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| 18:09 | i even convinced the office to get my a cisco 2911 router and a layer2 etherswitch card for it
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| 18:15 | most people don't need a layer 3 unless you need routing or some more advanced features
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| 18:15 | <vagrantc> !seen alkisg
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| 18:15 | <ltsp> vagrantc: alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 1 hour, 43 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <alkisg> No idea what they can do to bonding
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| 18:15 | <vagrantc> doh.
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| 18:22 | <stgraber> vagrantc: sounds like our ltspfs bug ;) can't reproduce the bug when we finally get a fix :)
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| 18:27 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 18:28 | <matrix3000> !seen mom
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| 18:28 | <ltsp> matrix3000: I have not seen mom.
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| 18:28 | <matrix3000> !seen matrix3000
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| 18:28 | <ltsp> matrix3000: matrix3000 was last seen in #ltsp 18 seconds ago: <matrix3000> !seen mom
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| 18:30 | <matrix3000> !cool
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| 18:30 | <ltsp> matrix3000: Error: "cool" is not a valid command.
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| 18:31 | <matrix3000> !secret
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| 18:31 | <ltsp> matrix3000: I do not know about 'secret', but I do know about these similar topics: 'socat'
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| 18:31 | <matrix3000> !cow
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| 18:31 | <ltsp> matrix3000: Error: "cow" is not a valid command.
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| 18:31 | <matrix3000> !moo
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| 18:31 | <ltsp> matrix3000: Error: "moo" is not a valid command.
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| 18:31 | <matrix3000> lol
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| 18:31 | where are the easter eggs
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| 18:52 | <knipwim> alkisg: i was about the put the vendor detection in ltsp-common-functions
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> Hi knipwim! Yup I think it'd be better there
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| 18:53 | <knipwim> should it be in a function, call it, and it exports VENDOR?
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| 18:53 | <alkisg> Let me see how we use it in ltsp-build-client...
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| 18:53 | <knipwim> or not, a VENDOR is exported when ltsp-common-functions is sourced
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: just about to upload epoptes 0.3.2 to debian unstable
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| 18:56 | <alkisg> knipwim: I think I'd write it as a function, e.g. VENDOR=$(detect_vendor), because it might be a bit expensive (sources a file, executes another)
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| 18:56 | vagrantc: nice! We also have a new translation if you want to include it, I think kοmunista wrote it?
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i didn't include any of the commits that came in since 0.3.2 ... but i could roll a 0.3.3 if you think it's ready
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| 18:57 | <alkisg> No no it's OK
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| 18:57 | In a week or so we'll publish 0.4
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| 18:57 | maybe in a couple of weeks, to do some more testing
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| 18:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: this upload will look like it's coming from you, also :)
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| 18:58 | alkisg: since i didn't mess with the changelog or anything
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| 18:58 | alkisg: unless you'd rather i make a branch or something.
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| 18:58 | <alkisg> Ooooh :) Would that give me ...points if I want to apply for debian maintainer next year or so?
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| 18:58 | No, I think it's fine as it is onw
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| 18:58 | now
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| 18:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it'll look good, yes. and all the work is yours
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| 18:59 | <alkisg> Thanks!
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| 19:00 | vagrantc: is there any idea about the next debian release? Few months? Or futher away?
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| 19:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: epoptes 0.3.2 uploaded!
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| 19:00 | <alkisg> :)
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| 19:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: freeze is in july, so release some months later
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| 19:01 | <alkisg> Nice
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| 19:01 | * vagrantc also uploaded a new version of libnss-sshsock earlier today | |
| 19:02 | <alkisg> Sounds like we're on a good road for ltsp 6!
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| 19:03 | <vagrantc> getting there
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| 19:06 | <knipwim> what's the main difference between 5 and 6?
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| 19:08 | <alkisg> I don't think anyone has actually proposed increasing the version number yet; I was just joking about all the new changes done in trunk lately
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| 19:08 | pam-ssh, maybe deprecating ldm, bootable chroots...
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> knipwim: some of the highlights include working towards obsoleting LDM (using libpam-sshauth/libnss-sshsock), moving stuff out of ltsp-build-client into initramfs run-time modifications, and making it possible to maintain the chroot from a booted environment
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| 19:09 | well, at the LTSP BTS, i think those were the basic features that we'd try to implement for LTSP6
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| 19:10 | <Hyperbyte> !learn future Some of the highlights include working towards obsoleting LDM (using libpam-sshauth/libnss-sshsock), moving stuff out of ltsp-build-client into initramfs run-time modifications, and making it possible to maintain the chroot from a booted environment
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| 19:10 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
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| 19:10 | <Hyperbyte> !learn future as Some of the highlights include working towards obsoleting LDM (using libpam-sshauth/libnss-sshsock), moving stuff out of ltsp-build-client into initramfs run-time modifications, and making it possible to maintain the chroot from a booted environment
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| 19:10 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: The operation succeeded.
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 19:10 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> !ltsp5
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| 19:11 | <ltsp> vagrantc: ltsp5: ltsp5 is The next version of LTSP, and the future of Thin Client computing on GNU/Linux. http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> hah.
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| 19:11 | !ltsp6
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| 19:11 | <ltsp> vagrantc: I do not know about 'ltsp6', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ltsp5', 'ltsp', 'ltsp42'
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| 19:11 | <alkisg> That link is dead though :D Hyperbyte: any news about the wiki?
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> learn ltsp6 as see !future
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| 19:11 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, I sent jammcq a message earlier (privately though).
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> ltsp: learn ltsp6 as see !future
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| 19:12 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> that might have confused it
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| 19:12 | <Hyperbyte> !learn ltsp6 as See: !future
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| 19:12 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: The operation succeeded.
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| 19:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: you forgot !
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| 19:12 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, well, it's not the cool kind yet! ;-)
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| 19:12 | I'm a bit too busy with the office move this month.
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> the old bot didn't use the ! if youu talked to it directly.
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| 19:12 | !ltsp6
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| 19:12 | <ltsp> vagrantc: ltsp6: See: !future
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| 19:12 | <Hyperbyte> It's proving a bit difficult for me to have even personal time.
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| 19:12 | But, I still have ideas and plans and stuff. :)
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| 19:13 | <alkisg> The new bot name is ltsp, and since we frequently talk about ltsp, we didn't make it respond to its name
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| 19:13 | <Hyperbyte> vagrantc, we disabled it from reacting to it's nickname, because .... yeah, what alkisg said.
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ah.
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| 19:13 | <Hyperbyte> We would say "LTSP rocks!" and it would reply "No such command: rocks!"
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| 19:13 | :(
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| 19:14 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: gotcha, I hope all work out well for you, the move process, and for the wiki
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| 19:14 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, definitely.
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| 19:14 | The move itself was planned carefully, good schedule, with time to spare.
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| 19:14 | That kinda went out the window my boss launched a new company as well, requiring website, CRM, etc...
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| 19:15 | <alkisg> Ouch
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| 19:15 | <Hyperbyte> Yes, 'ouch' is the right word.
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| 19:15 | I did finish the website. :) http://www.hfive.nl/
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| 19:16 | I showed you concept I think. :) I like the design, it's very vacation-y. :)
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| 19:17 | <alkisg> I love the sites that consiously select not to use flash
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| 19:17 | * knipwim is wondering if there is an easteregg when the boat reaches the other side :) | |
| 19:18 | <Hyperbyte> knipwim, nope. :) They just appear on the other side. It's not just the boat that's moving though! ;-)
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| 19:19 | alkisg, thanks. :) I develop all my websites using Bluefish and Gimp actually.
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| 19:22 | knipwim, I was going to have an easter egg by making a coconut fall from the tree when you mouseovered it
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| 19:22 | But when I became pressed for time I scratched it.
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| 19:22 | <alkisg> epoptes_0.3.2-1_i386.changes ACCEPTED into unstable ==> oh yeah!!
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> :)
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| 19:23 | in 10 days, it should hit testing...
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| 19:23 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg: don't know if it's worth it to wait for ubuntu to pull 0.4
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| 19:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I don't know how the sync process works... could you and stgraber help me plan it better?
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| 19:27 | E.g. suppose we have 0.4 ready in 2 weeks, and some translations in another week after that
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| 19:28 | Is it possible to have it in unstable by e.g. December 20th, so that it can be pulled by Ubuntu before DebianLTSImportFreeze?
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| 19:28 | 11 December 29th A-2 LTSDebianImportFreeze
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> does it need to pull from unstable or testing?
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| 19:29 | alkisg: we could do a 0.4~rc0 release when it's technically ready, and then just add the translations when you want the translation updates
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| 19:29 | <alkisg> Good question, I think in the past non LTS releases pulled from unstable, and LTS releases from testing, but stgraber pulled epoptes from experimental, so I guess it could pull from unstable too...
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> er, make the final release when you have the translations
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| 19:30 | <alkisg> Ah, that'd be nice
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| 19:30 | <vagrantc> that way we could say "it's already been tested, this is just a translation update"
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| 19:30 | alkisg: or do 0.4.0 with technical updates, and 0.4.1 with the translations
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| 19:32 | <stgraber> alkisg, vagrantc: I can sync from experimental, unstable, testing or stable at any time until the FeatureFreeze (some time in February)
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| 19:32 | the deadline in December is for automated imports from testing
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| 19:32 | <alkisg> stgraber: until FeatureFreeze?! Wow, that gives us time for many new features
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| 19:32 | <vagrantc> so if we get epoptes into testing by then, it'll just be in ubuntu
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| 19:33 | <alkisg> Good, no pressure then, we'll have all the major features until the end of the year, and plenty of time for testing
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| 19:33 | +translations
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| 19:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: seems like a bit of release often would be good.
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| 19:34 | <alkisg> vagrantc: indeed, if you don't mind, that would give us more feedback, which is very valuable as the project is new
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| 19:36 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if you release every 10-14 days, i can try to keep up and keep unstable up to date, with the slightly older version always in testing
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| 19:37 | stgraber: the epoptes version uploaded to unstable has a big improvement you might want to pull
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| 19:37 | <alkisg> That's doable... Phantomas is just delaying the next release because it's a big change and he wants to do it all in 1 commit
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| 19:37 | <vagrantc> stgraber: but we're likely to make more updates soon, from the sounds of things
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| 19:38 | alkisg: it's a single feature?
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| 19:38 | <alkisg> Yes, adding + managing groups (=classes)
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| 19:38 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 19:38 | work in a branch with incremental commits and then merge it in one go
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| 19:40 | you get the best of both worlds that way
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| 19:40 | <stgraber> vagrantc: rmadison only shows me epoptes in experimental, is that 0.3.1-1?
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| 19:40 | <alkisg> I keep telling him to create a branch with incremental commits so that I can help him, but he's too stubborn, he wants to only have working code published :)
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| 19:42 | <stgraber> vagrantc: hmm, apparently not as that's the one I currently have in Ubuntu... I guess I need to wait a few more hours before I can sync 0.3.2-1 from experimental
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| 19:42 | *unstable
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> stgraber: yeah, it'll take a bit to actually hit the archives
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| 20:35 | alkisg: i've got the education coordinator at freegeek interested in epoptes, so i'll have incentive to backport to squeeze
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| 20:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc: if you need any help ping me, but afaik it should just work in squeeze
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| 20:36 | <vagrantc> alkisg: hope so.
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| 21:43 | <ltsp> bill_c: I have not seen rjune.
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