IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 November 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:28 | <elias_a> atiti: Ok. Now I get the connection. Don't know. You will have to try.
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| 10:05 | <Apostolis> Αλκη καλημερα εισαι μεσα
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| 10:09 | <alkisg> Apostolis: γράψε: /j #ts.sch.gr
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| 14:09 | <zamba> does ubuntu precise include unity?
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| 14:12 | <zamba> eh.. meaning in ltsp
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| 14:12 | because i hate unity
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| 14:12 | so what is the way to get the "old" desktop? gnome2, basically
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| 14:12 | in ltsp?
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| 14:13 | that's why i haven't upgraded yet, because i just don't want unity
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| 14:14 | <muppis> I hate Untiy as well, but I like Gnome Shell. If you prefer Gnome 2 -style, then Gnone fallback could be close.
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| 14:14 | <zamba> muppis: is this a package i just can install?
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| 14:14 | because i'm working more or less headless here
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| 14:14 | i'm running the ltsp server remotely
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| 14:15 | <muppis> I'll check.
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| 14:16 | gnome-session-fallback
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| 14:16 | <zamba> oh, sweet
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| 14:17 | <muppis> You may need to do some adjustment to lts.conf to get it as default.
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| 14:25 | <zamba> i'm just wondering if i'm going to get this thing to boot :)
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| 14:26 | <zamba> after upgrading.. it's running in xen
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| 14:32 | <muppis> It doesn't matter where it runs on. Even better if in virtual, because better change get console to see what happens.
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| 14:39 | <zamba> yeah
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| 14:39 | but i'm not very happy with xen :)
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| 14:39 | at least not running PV :)
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| 14:39 | it complains about new kernels all the time
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| 15:58 | <ltspuser_65> Hello
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| 15:59 | <dead_inside> hello
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| 15:59 | <ltspuser_65> I just to confirm please if the HP T410 All-in-One Zero Client is compatible with LTSP (I will run Ubuntu)
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| 16:01 | <dead_inside> wow a power over ethernet thin client. thats awesome
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| 16:02 | <ltspuser_65> I will not run it with PoE
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| 16:03 | i can see in the HP Datasheet that it support PXE boot, so i believe it should work with LTSP on Ubuntu 12.10
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| 16:04 | <dead_inside> thats my guess too ltspuser_65
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| 16:04 | if it supports pxeboot it should work
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| 16:04 | but i have never herd of anyone using the zero client so i cant say for sure if it works
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| 16:06 | <ltspuser_65> ok, thanks
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| 16:06 | what HP Thin Client do you recommend i use with LTSP on Ubuntu?
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| 16:07 | i will be installing 20x Thin Clients. What should be the configuration of the HP ProLiant x86-64 server?
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| 16:10 | <ogra-cb> you will need to maintain your oen kernel for the all in one
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| 16:10 | *own
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| 16:10 | i dont think there is an arm kernel in ubuntu supporting it
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| 16:11 | (though if you are lucky the omap3 one works, but i wouldnt count on it)
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| 16:12 | <ltspuser_65> Is the HP T5565 with VIA CPU OK to use?
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| 16:13 | <ogra-cb> if thats 686 compatible ...
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| 16:14 | <ltspuser_65> it runs HP Thin Pro OS
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| 16:14 | http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13745_div/13745_div.html
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| 16:14 | <ogra-cb> no idea what that is
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| 16:15 | if the cpu is 686 compatible it will definitely run ubuntu
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| 16:20 | <ltspuser_65> I can read on via.com that their processor has x86 architecture, so it shoudl work, right?
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| 16:21 | <||cw> depends
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| 16:21 | <ogra-cb> x86 can also mean 486 or 586 compatible
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| 16:21 | <||cw> if it's a geode, it might not run the latest ubuntu, since it's 586 and not 686
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| 16:21 | <ogra-cb> ubuntu dropped 486 and 586 support
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| 16:21 | <||cw> 10.04 will work, or you can compile your own kernel, or try some other distro
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| 16:25 | <ltspuser_65> ok, many thanks for your assistance
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| 16:50 | <ltspuser_66> Hi!
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| 17:43 | <kev_j> I am a bit confused about what I should be using for printing with localapps... I have found a few things talking about CUPS_SERVER, which I didn't see in the man page, LDM_PRINTER_LIST, and then again I am not sure if I should be doing either/or and just setting up cups.. I have cups setup on the main server and it has the printer setup as IPP... what exactly is the right way to boot to a network printer
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| 17:43 | ?
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| 17:56 | <||cw> well, you have to have some sort of local-to-the-application print system, be it cups or lpd, in order for that application to print.
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| 17:57 | so if you have cups on the server with the printer setup, make it sharable and put cups in the chroot so it can discover the servers shared printers
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| 17:57 | that's the easiest way, takes more ram on the client than lpd though
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| 17:59 | <kev_j> right right, so what config files do I need, as far as I have been able to find I need a client.conf file with the server address and thats it... is that right?
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| 18:01 | and do I need to do anything special/specific in the cupsd.conf file or would I just delete that?
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| 18:03 | <||cw> normally don't even that, just enable the detect shared prints option
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| 19:18 | <ltspuser_29> Hello Guys
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| 19:18 | I need some assistance
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| 19:19 | I am trying to deploy LTSP on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
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| 19:19 | I have managed to get it working
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| 19:19 | but need somehing done
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| 19:20 | I have commanded xfreerdp to open automatically on load
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| 19:20 | using the Screen_07 option
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| 19:20 | problem is when someone logs off from the RDP session i require the LTSP to also shutdown
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| 19:30 | <wicksey> Hi all. Anyone know how to remove the 'shutdown' command from the menu in ldm?
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| 19:30 | (12.04 version)
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| 19:31 | Or better... either remove it or make it 'poweroff -fp'
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| 19:36 | <kev_j> does the 'ltsp_handle_daemons=false' fix that or would that not fix it in rdp?
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| 19:44 | wicksey: Try 'export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=False' on the ltsp server.. I think that will keep it from restarting when a client hits reboot
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| 19:48 | <wicksey> Hi - thanks. That's not the problem. The clients hang on shutdown and I'm trying to find a workaround until I can fix it. I need to either remove 'shutdown' from ldm or force every shutdown on the client to actually 'poweroff -fp' (which works)
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| 19:50 | <kev_j> oh yea, not reading closely enough apparently
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| 19:51 | What desktop are you using?
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| 19:52 | <wicksey> 12.04 gnome fallback
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| 19:53 | (at the moment, 32 machines in our lab keep being clicked to shutdown by keen pupils and they hang)
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| 19:53 | <kev_j> I thought that didn't have a shutdown command in the menu... I think I only had logoff
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| 19:53 | or signoff... or whatever
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| 19:53 | <wicksey> from ldm, mate
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| 19:53 | the login manager
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| 19:55 | <kev_j> wow, I guess I'm tired (or an idiot...), didn't make the connection
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| 19:56 | <wicksey> you can picture the scene... 32 pupils logout of gnome. Half of them helpfully click 'shutdown' from ldm login screen. Hang...
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| 19:56 | <ltspuser_29> Please can anyone assist me with the problem
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| 19:58 | <wicksey> I missed your problem... happy to try
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| 19:58 | <ltspuser_29> I have got all my thin clients automatically login to rdp
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| 19:58 | using screen_07 option in the LTS.conf file
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| 19:59 | so the default screen that opens up is the rdp session
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| 19:59 | when the client clicks logoff the rdp session restarts
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| 20:00 | <wicksey> I don't use rdp but did you see kev_j's suggestion?
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| 20:00 | <ltspuser_29> I need when the client clicks logoff on the rdp session the thin client should log off the rdp session and shutdown the terminal
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| 20:00 | yes that is for your problem
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| 20:00 | <wicksey> I see. In understand but sorry, I don't know how to help.
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| 20:03 | <ltspuser_29> It seems when I log off the xsession restarts
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| 20:07 | <kev_j> wicksey: have you looked into acpi=force in the pxelinux.cfg/default file?
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| 20:08 | <wicksey> kev_j, good find, but yes indeed. I tried that (and I understand that I copy that in each time I update the image). Doesn't work, sadly.
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| 20:09 | <kev_j> figured that you had, doesn't hurt to ask
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| 20:09 | <wicksey> indeed - appreciated
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| 20:15 | <kev_j> wicksey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940 post#28 (I didn't read it all, but I think that it goes over some of it)
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| 20:17 | <wicksey> Hmmmm.... looks like that patch went upstream in 2009
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| 20:18 | <kev_j> alkisg's response was 9-14-2012
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| 20:18 | about the proposed patch not being accepted
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| 20:18 | <wicksey> aah!
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| 20:18 | <kev_j> that's post 28
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| 20:19 | unless I am mistaken alkisg is one of the devs
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| 20:19 | he's in here a lot of the time
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| 20:20 | <wicksey> indeed.... he pointed me to another bug when I reported this problem on the edubuntu mailing list. Disn't fix it.
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| 20:21 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/+bug/696454
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| 20:22 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/view/head:/client/share/ltsp/nbd-disconnect
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| 20:22 | But the fix in bazaar seems included in 12.04.1
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| 20:22 | <kev_j> hrm, I dunno
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| 20:23 | <wicksey> a tricky one for sure
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| 20:26 | <kev_j> do you have any other DE's than gnome?
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| 20:31 | <wicksey> no, but I could of couse
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| 20:31 | these are fat clients btw!
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| 20:32 | we use thin and fat
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| 20:32 | <kev_j> I was thinking that you could try LXDE and see if that willl shut it down or not...
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| 20:32 | another thing is have you seen the bios thing about it
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| 20:32 | <wicksey> I updated the bios today... :(
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| 20:32 | <kev_j> any acpi options?
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| 20:33 | <wicksey> Hmmm... don't think so.
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| 20:33 | I did have a look as I caught somethng about bios options. What sort of thing?
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| 20:34 | <kev_j> I'm not sure now, I think I had read something earlier about it, but the one I was looking at currently was about something else
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| 20:35 | but I would look through and maybe check for any standby/shutdown/acpi settings that could interfere
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| 20:38 | <wicksey> wise
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| 20:38 | I did look but I'll have another go
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| 20:39 | How bad is it to poweroff -fp from the desktop?
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| 20:39 | <kev_j> on a chroot I wouldn't think it would be bad
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| 20:39 | <wicksey> WIll it corrupt home dir etc if the fat client doesn't logoff properly first? poweroff -fp just immediately powers off the mcahine.... not elegant
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| 20:39 | yeah
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| 20:39 | I kinda agree
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| 20:40 | <kev_j> Well the home dir is on the server isn't it?
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| 20:40 | <wicksey> yup
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| 20:40 | <kev_j> and not in the chroot
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| 20:40 | <wicksey> correct
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| 20:40 | <kev_j> so that wouldn't affect it
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| 20:40 | to my knowledge
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| 20:41 | <wicksey> Alkis mentioned nbd sessions might be left open, but they are at the moment anyway as I have to hard poweroff the machines by holding in the button!
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| 20:41 | <kev_j> hmm, right, but wouldn't that be session or caching info?
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| 20:41 | <wicksey> I'll make a desktop launcher that calls sudo poweroff -fp and add poweroff to the sudoers file
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| 20:42 | crunch!
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| 20:43 | <wicksey> which brings me back to wanting to remove the shutdown menu option from ldm I hope
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| 20:43 | do many folk use xfce under ltsp?
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| 20:44 | <kev_j> It could be somewhat simple, but I have tried to figure out how to move things around and customize ldm, and (to me at least) it is a pain in the ass
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| 20:44 | <wicksey> Yeah... I had a look through yesterday and I was left at a blank
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| 20:45 | <kev_j> I have tried xfce, but I haven't used it since I got lxde
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| 20:45 | <wicksey> is it lxde easily configurable? I'm thinking school envrionment
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| 20:45 | <kev_j> from what I can tell you have to get the source, find the right file, get the scripting right, and then recompile and insert it in
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| 20:46 | <wicksey> indeed... maybe when I've learnt a bit more about that sort of thing!!!
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| 20:46 | <kev_j> that was about ldm btw, not lxde
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| 20:46 | <wicksey> aye
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| 20:47 | <kev_j> as far as LXDE goes it seems to have fewer customizations than gnome, but that could easily be my inexperience with it.. but I like it so far
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| 20:48 | <wicksey> I'll give it a go. Using openbox on crunchbang on this home machine. Very impressed but probably not suitable for primary school maybe
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| 20:48 | I'll give lxde a go
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| 20:48 | We'll need a plan going forward as unity 3d is reported very slow on thin clients under 12.10
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| 20:49 | we have 32 thin and 32 fat
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| 20:49 | <kev_j> then again I heard some of these guys talking about how LXDE is dropping their fallback support.. and maybe something along the lines of it not being good for school use
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| 20:50 | <highvoltage> you mean gnome
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| 20:50 | <kev_j> oh, must have misread
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| 20:51 | I haven't been sleeping much lately
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| 20:51 | oh, yeah, there it is
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| 20:52 | <wicksey> aye... it's ubuntu unity won't be an option I believe (3d on thin clients)
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| 20:52 | <alkisg> wicksey: http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?d=2012-08-21 08:34
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| 20:53 | <kev_j> yeah, reading through it I completely misunderstood... so anywho, I like LXDE
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> wicksey: about DE in school environments, we've settled with gnome-fallback in 12.04 here, and we might switch to LXDE in 14.04 when gnome-fallback will no longer be around
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| 20:54 | <wicksey> that's where we are at (a school in Hertfordshire, UK)
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| 20:56 | <gvy> kev_j, might be better to have some sleep though, we're usually prone to time-consuming mistakes otherwise...
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| 20:56 | just in case, so far kde3 was the best thin client DE here (but currently TDE seems to have enough regressions that opensuse's KDE3 fork happily lacks)
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| 20:57 | <wicksey> Incidentally, have you experienced the Applications menu not loading (just a grey bar)? I've written a 'fix my menu' desktop launcher that kills and starts gnome-panel, but should I file a bug? Fat clients.
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> wicksey: yeah unfortunately we do have that. We tell teachers to use epoptes to relaunch the panel. I think a bug was filed somewhere in launchpad, let me see if I can find it so that you can provide feedback there...
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| 20:58 | <wicksey> thanks
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| 21:00 | We ubuntu 12.04 (not edubuntu). Sounds like epoptes is worth installing (I think you created it?). Is it server only, or install in clients too?
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> Server + chroot
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| 21:02 | <wicksey> makes sense
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> Hmm I can't find the gnome-panel bug... maybe you should file one under gnome-panel (not under ltsp)
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| 21:05 | <wicksey> I've not filed a bug before... I'll have a look into it. Point noted about where to file it.
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel
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| 21:05 | "Report a bug" link to the right
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| 21:05 | <wicksey> Excellent. Kind.
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| 21:06 | * alkisg wonders if it would be worth it to create an /etc/xdg/autostart item that runs 10 seconds after login and checks if the panel is running or not... | |
| 21:06 | <alkisg> (and if not, launch it)
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| 21:07 | <wicksey> I wondered how to test if it was running and creating something. I didn't know where to create it, but it must be reasonably achievable.
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| 21:08 | though the panel is running I believe. Just no menu.
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| 21:08 | <alkisg> Maybe test for the menu existance then, using its window name
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| 21:08 | <wicksey> ah
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| 21:08 | good
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| 21:08 | <alkisg> First one is `if pgrep -u $USER gnome-panel...`, second one with xprop
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| 21:09 | <wicksey> We are using fallback. Have you made that choice because of unity 2d performance on thin clients?
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| 21:10 | Or other reasons too?
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| 21:10 | * alkisg doesn't like unity, and also unity-2d was dropped in 12.10, but unfortunately now gnome-fallback is dropped upstream too | |
| 21:11 | <alkisg> wicksey: server CPU+NIC speed, and client CPU+NIC speed for the shutdown problem? I'm wondering if I could reproduce the problem by selecting a similar setup...
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| 21:11 | <highvoltage> Unity is nice in concept but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired.
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| 21:12 | * gvy uses wmaker and doesn't sniff | |
| 21:12 | <wicksey> Will post up tomorrow. Not on site. The server is very fast I think, with ssd drive. It runs very quickly.
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> With simple dual core servers, I've never seen the problem no matter the clients... anyways, 'night all
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| 21:13 | <wicksey> night and thanks
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| 21:14 | <gvy> g'night
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| 21:17 | <kev_j> I don't know if I am being stupid, but I still can't seem to get cups on the client to recognize or talk to the cups server
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| 21:20 | <wicksey> Have you enabled sharing on the serve>
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| 21:20 | <kev_j> in the administration on localhost:631 right?
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| 21:21 | <wicksey> I've only used the ubuntu server dialogue
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| 21:22 | though I think the old dialogue has been replaced with a useless one
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| 21:22 | <kev_j> pretty sure I have, it says allow all under the #allow shared printing in the cupsd.conf
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| 21:22 | <wicksey> On 12.04 run 'system-config-printer'
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| 21:22 | presumably with the hash?
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| 21:23 | <kev_j> I'm on wheezy debian
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| 21:23 | <wicksey> hmm
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| 21:23 | forgive me saying this... Does the #allow have the #? Isn't that commenting it out?
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| 21:25 | <kev_j> I think that is the comment, the full line is ' # Allow shared printing. . .'
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| 21:25 | <wicksey> sorry... good
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| 21:26 | <kev_j> I don't think I have seen ... on a config file
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| 21:26 | not like that anyway
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| 21:27 | <wicksey> is there a line not commented out that says it's allowing it?
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| 21:28 | <kev_j> yeah, allow all is two lines under that
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| 21:28 | <wicksey> hmmm
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| 21:28 | I don't have my cups conf here
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| 21:28 | <kev_j> and I installed cups in the chroot...
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| 21:29 | The network printer is added to the cups server as IPP://, so I don't know if that makes a difference
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| 21:31 | <wicksey> Problem is... I've never had to look at cups file as I've used th gui and it works. I can email you my cups file tomorrow?
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| 21:32 | <kev_j> sure, dunno if it will help, but it couldn't hurt
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| 21:36 | <wicksey> goodnight all
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| 21:37 | thanks for the help
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| 22:13 | <dead_inside> this is not LTSP related but I can not stop laughing and figure others around here might like https://www.facebook.com/Shitmybotsays
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| 23:01 | <||cw> meh. these are better http://www.damitclan.com/yabb/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1344;start=120#23178
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| 23:03 | I still have that bot somewhere. making it talk to an instance of itself pretty much always results in it repeatedly quoting Reagan. not sure what that means really...
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