IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 21 July 2008 (all times are UTC)

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03:29	<TNKLTSP> ogra
03:30	the usb storage bug with AD authentication is pretty simple infact
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03:32	<TNKLTSP> the muse module which mounts the usb stick, creates a folder which is named /media/%USER, and the group for that folder is the user group, not for example "domain users" or "fuse" or anything like that, just the usergroup
03:32	and it returns error if none is found
03:34	I havent yet tested in which range it searches GID (is it between 1000 and 10000 or from 1000 to infinity). Or does it search a group named similiar to username (no it doesnt, because this can be workaround with generic "Users")
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05:29	<ab2> hello has anyone used a terminal named ebox on ltsp5?
05:31	anyone from south africa?
05:36	hello has anyone used a terminal by ebox on ltsp5?
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05:45	<nathy> hi. I have installed LTSP and I work with HP Thin Clients. But unfortunately it is very slow? What should I change?
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06:12	<nathy> can nobody help me?
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06:16	<laga> ogra: do you know under which circumstances /etc/nbd-server/config would end up empty? looks like someone couldn't boot their client because it was empty.
06:19	ogra: ah, it looks like nbdrootd doesn't even use the config file. never mind then :)
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07:12	<Blinny> I'm having a problem with different services repeatedly crashing on my updated Hardy Heron server - services including ssh, imap and samba. The processes are then defunct, which stinks because I can't remotely reboot the server (processes will never die on shutdown -r). I filed a bug against the kernel a few weeks ago, but I think this isn't correct, as I have received _no_ response. Any ideas? (the bug report is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/
07:14	Damnit. Wrong channel.
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10:01	<Blinny> Gadi: Any time to look at the wtmp issue?
10:01	er, have you had any
10:01	...over the weekend... while everyone else was relaxing... (;
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10:06	<Gadi> Blinny: 'fraid not - I will have to recreate it first
10:07	but, it should be easy enough to blacklist the LTSPROCKS process
10:08	<Q-FUNK> !g
10:08	<ltspbot> Q-FUNK: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:11	<Gadi> !Q
10:11	<ltspbot> Gadi: "Q" is Q-FUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:11	<Gadi> :)
10:12	<Q-FUNK> :)
10:12	* Gadi thinks someone's over-compensating with exclamation points
10:13	<Q-FUNK> hehehe
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11:36	<ace_suares> Hi Q-funk ! Hi Gadi !
11:36	<Q-FUNK> hiya Ace!
11:36	<ace_suares> Q-FUNK: wassup !
11:36	Q-FUNK: i'm very happy with the thincans :-)
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11:37	<ace_suares> I got a weird problem tough. I hav an app (some proprietary software) that won't run when I use ssh -X
11:37	so, when I run 'ssh -X remote app' it opens but then the window disappears.
11:38	but when I go to the remote host and locally do ssh -X 127.0.0.1 app, then it works perfectly
11:39	<Q-FUNK> odd
11:39	ogra or gadi might know about SSH pecularities under LTSP
11:40	<ace_suares> I just can't wrap my mind around why it works locally but not remote...
11:40	<Gadi> ace_suares: check .xsession-errors and also try with strace
11:40	<ace_suares> thx gadi. i dopnt have strace on the remote host.
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11:42	<ace_suares> gadi, can I pick your brain for 5 mins ?
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11:42	<Gadi> slim pickins, but sure
11:42	<ace_suares> too modest u r .. :-)
11:43	what is the difference in doing ssh -X 127.0.0.1 on the remote or doing it remotely ?
11:43	why would the app behave any different when called remotel;y ?
11:44	<Gadi> well, it could be a number of things
11:44	<ace_suares> just give me a couple of hints :-)
11:44	<Gadi> 1. ssh -X tells the app to talk to the ssh X proxy rather than straight to the X server
11:44	2. it could be audio-related (pulseaudio vs local alsa)
11:45	<ace_suares> I dont think its an audio problem it's not enabled...
11:45	<Gadi> 3. If you have compiz installed on the server, compiz actually looks at the server's xorg.log file for info rather than querying the client's xserver
11:45	<ace_suares> but it mioght be tough i can look into that.
11:45	<Gadi> which can cause crashing
11:45	doesnt necessarily need to be enabled
11:45	:)
11:46	<ace_suares> hmmm
11:46	<Gadi> remember:
11:46	crashing apps are by definition not behaving by design
11:46	*as designed
11:46	<ace_suares> I have ubuntu 8.04 64-bits and via kvm an installation of damsn small linux.
11:46	dsl is using fluxbox and on the ubuntu I have xserver-glx with compiz
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11:47	<ace_suares> I can get rid of compiz but I also tried on a thin client that is connected to the ubuntu
11:47	and that is not using compiz or xgl
11:47	and all other apps work normally (ssh -X remote aterm works fine)
11:47	I know it myst be the app that is borking but I can't just get my mind around why it would work locally and not remote.
11:48	<Gadi> look in .xsession-errors
11:48	<ace_suares> and how to debug it, strace would be good but the DSL has no tracing proghrams
11:48	<Gadi> something may scream the answer
11:48	<ace_suares> .xsession erros iis not givign anyhing
11:48	<Gadi> so, this is a DSL app running in kvm on the server?
11:49	<ace_suares> to add further fun, the home dir on the DSL is mounted via nfs from the host (all seems to work okay).
11:49	yep DSL runs in kvm on top op Ubuntu (which also has LTSP).
11:49	* Gadi is a bit lost
11:49	<Gadi> :)
11:49	<ace_suares> he he
11:49	it's like a nuclear project here what I am trying.
11:49	<Gadi> so the app is running in a virtual machine?
11:50	<ace_suares> the app (it's win4lin) uses somekind of virtualization too
11:50	yep the app is running in the kvm
11:50	it's a box in a box in a box :-)
11:50	<Gadi> win4lin on top of dsl?
11:50	<ace_suares> yep, works great
11:50	<Gadi> interesting
11:50	<ace_suares> thankx
11:51	I am trying to get my schools a woking win98 environment cauase all the edu software is on wn98
11:51	and they dont have ANY money.
11:51	so I build win4lin/ltsp server 2.5 yrs ago but now the kernel doesnt suppoprt win4lin (the old one)
11:51	<Gadi> how do you launch win4lin?
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11:51	<Gadi> log into dsl in the vm and run from a prompt?
11:51	<ace_suares> so I had to improvise.... build a 2.6 kernel tbhat supports win4lin insidce a dsl
11:52	if I log into the dsl, i can run the app with no problem, from a prompt or from whatever
11:52	if i log into the dsl, I can run ssh -X 127.0.0.1 win with no problem
11:53	on the host (or a thin client for that matter) I can run ssh -X dls-vm aterm with no problem
11:53	dls-vm
11:53	but when I try ssh -X dsl-vm win the app starts, but then after 5 secs it blows away.
11:53	<Gadi> ah
11:53	sounds like you do not get a proper env
11:53	<ace_suares> that clarifies stuff eh :-)))
11:54	I was worried about the env
11:54	can not find what could be wrong with it tough
11:54	<Gadi> try: ssh -X dsl-vm sh -c 'win'
11:54	or some such
11:54	<ace_suares> okay !
11:54	<Gadi> in other words, get yourself a controlling shell
11:55	however you need to do that
11:55	<ace_suares> pooof.... :-(
11:55	<Gadi> :)
11:55	<ace_suares> Look I'll paste the env when I am in the dsl, and when I am remoting okay.. give me a sec
11:57	http://pastebin.com/d3e3fd99d (result of ssh -X dsl-vm sh -c 'aterm')
11:57	<Gadi> also, do you have LDM_DIRECTX turned on?
11:58	<ace_suares> http://pastebin.com/d10b014a4 (result of ssh -X dsl-vm aterm, looks the same as the previos)
11:59	<Gadi> SHLVL=2
12:00	<ace_suares> http://pastebin.com/d3338a409 (result of env from an aterm started from X , locally on the dsl-vm)
12:00	Id ont think LDM_DIRECTX is really playing a part here since I run the ssh -X from the host (not from a tc)
12:00	<Gadi> i tend to agree
12:00	<ace_suares> woopie !!! :_)
12:01	<Gadi> except that you won't notice DISPLAY variable problems
12:01	in other words, when run on the localhost, you wont know if the display is wrong
12:01	<ace_suares> on the localhost, you mean the ubuntu installation ?
12:02	<Gadi> yeah, when you run it on the server
12:02	for example
12:02	say 'win' hardcodes DISPLAY=:0
12:02	then, ssh -X win on the server works
12:03	where it breaks on the client
12:03	<ace_suares> yes... I think that might be a problem
12:03	execpt that it does open a window on the server
12:03	it just disappears after 5 secs
12:03	<Gadi> hmm...
12:04	in that case, it could just be the controlling shell dies
12:04	<ace_suares> and in the docs it says that you should be able to use ssh -X but one of the techies at win4lin says that it always had problems
12:04	<Gadi> and kills the child when it does
12:04	so, it takes a few secs
12:04	<ace_suares> I think the program also passes something off to the next level or so
12:04	<Gadi> the child prolly forks after a while and kills its parent
12:04	kinda like how nxclient works
12:04	<ace_suares> it starts with some kind of dos windows and then it resizes into a windows window
12:05	<Gadi> nxclient spawns nxssh and then nxclient dies
12:05	while nxssh persists
12:05	so, xinit nxclient dies
12:05	<ace_suares> yeah I did have the same problem with runnign this over nx !
12:05	<Gadi> try wrapping the dying process in a wrapper
12:05	where after the call to win...
12:05	<ace_suares> how to do that ?
12:05	<Gadi> you put:
12:06	while :; sleep 30; done
12:06	<ace_suares> ah okay
12:06	<Gadi> so instead of calling 'win', you call 'win.wrapper'
12:06	and make win.wrapper:
12:06	win
12:06	while :; sleep 30; done
12:06	<ace_suares> so I make 'win2' that does win; sleep 30
12:06	<Gadi> or, if you like:
12:06	<ace_suares> yeah
12:06	<Gadi> win
12:06	aterm
12:07	(just some process that doesn't ide for sure)
12:07	*die
12:07	<ace_suares> i'll try ttah
12:08	<Gadi> if that keeps it alive, you can do some cleanup to make it friendlier
12:08	:)
12:09	<ace_suares> npe, it starts win, untill it dies, then starts aterm
12:09	<Gadi> hmm - well, at least that tells you it is something about win that crashes
12:10	strace should be pretty self-contained
12:10	try copying the executable to dsl
12:10	and use it to debug
12:11	brb
12:11	<ace_suares> k
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12:19	<Pascal_1> Bonsoir
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13:16	<Gadi> ogra: ping
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13:18	<ogra> Gadi, really ?
13:18	<Gadi> ?
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13:18	<ogra> :)
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13:19	<Gadi> I was wondering if you think this means tha sshfs will support statfs naturally: https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1399
13:19	without a shim
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13:21	<warren> Gadi: interesting
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13:22	<warren> Gadi: sshfs uses sftp?
13:22	<Gadi> warren: not sure
13:22	<ogra> no
13:22	it uses fuse and ssh though
13:22	<johnny> it can i think
13:23	oh.. hey guys
13:23	<Gadi> but, I'm wondering if the addition of statfs to sftp might not filter through
13:23	<johnny> i'm at xmpp summit..
13:23	i don't think it will
13:23	<Gadi> its a patch to openssh-server
13:23	<ogra> right
13:23	* warren looks at sshfs source
13:23	* Gadi thinks it would be nice if it did
13:23	<Gadi> :)
13:23	<ogra> indeed
13:24	<Gadi> and if the maintainers are willing to add it to sftp....
13:24	:)
13:24	<ogra> it would even be nicer if we could just do "mount -t sftp ..." :)
13:24	without having fuse in the middle
13:24	<Gadi> true
13:24	sftpfs
13:24	<ogra> at least in ldm we wouldnt need that
13:25	(fuse mean)
13:25	*i
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13:25	<warren> I see sftp in sshfs code
13:25	<ogra> nice
13:25	well, we should simply test it if openssh 5.1 hits the distros
13:25	<warren> or patch your openssh
13:26	sshfs has a bunch of statvfs stuff inside of it
13:26	* warren patches his openssh...
13:26	<ogra> ubuntu and debian are at 4.7 atm
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13:26	<ogra> and i suspect 5.x is considered unstable still
13:27	<jammcq> good luck getting the ssh guys to add statfs
13:27	scotty tried, they laughed at him
13:27	<ogra> jammcq, see the bug Gadi pointed to
13:27	<jammcq> and YES, sshfs uses sftp
13:27	<warren> Fedora 9 has 5.0
13:28	<ogra> jammcq, its statvfs not stafs though, not sure the difference is really relevant
13:28	*statfs
13:28	<jammcq> hmm, interesting
13:28	maybe it's the way scotty asked :)
13:29	<ogra> smells a bit like :)
13:30	<warren> hm, hte patch doesn't resemble openssh-5.0
13:33	<Gadi> seems I caught you guys at a good time
13:33	:)
13:33	didnt realize everybody was here
13:34	<warren> working on something else right nwo
13:34	i'll look more at the patch later
13:34	<Gadi> ogra: I took out the screen stuff in that rc.d script and made it more general - it will blacklist procs returned by a server-side script
13:35	and I wrapped everything in an lts.conf var
13:35	starting to look better
13:37	<warren> blacklist?
13:38	<Gadi> warren: this is that check user script blinny and I were picking at
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13:38	<Gadi> ogra wanted a blacklist for procs not to kill
13:38	like 'screen' and such
13:39	<warren> might be less confusing to call it a "safelist" or something?
13:39	<Gadi> well, I call it "/usr/bin/LDM_keepalive"
13:39	atm
13:39	:)
13:39	I don't have a good name
13:39	but, basically, it would return a list of pids
13:40	so, you could have it do a pgrep (or several) for things you dont want killed
13:41	<warren> perhaps better to kill a tree of processes under a session start?
13:41	everything under gnome-session
13:41	I dunno
13:42	<Gadi> well, with the blacklist you can keep the things you want
13:42	as-is, the script works quite nicely
13:43	'specially in kicking out another logged in session you may have on a different terminal
13:45	<cyberorg> yes sshfs uses sftp
13:46	too late, jammcq already said that :)
13:46	<vagrantc> cyberorg: do you know anyone from the opensuse community who'll be coming to the ltsp hackfest this coming weekend?
13:46	<cyberorg> vagrantc, japerry is in portland at the moment
13:46	japerry, ^^
13:46	<japerry> vagrantc: are you in portland?
13:47	<vagrantc> japerry: yeah
13:47	<japerry> vagrantc: whatcha doin for lunch? some in the oscon channel are talking about things
13:47	<ogra> vagrantc, no answer to my mail i sent to the hostel ...
13:47	so i might need help here
13:47	<japerry> I'm working on the ltsp system at the moment, but I could be tempted to get a bite. I brought our dev systems down
13:47	<vagrantc> ogra: well, i don't have the most luxury accomodations, but you won't be out on the street :)
13:48	<Gadi> party at vagrantc's!
13:48	<vagrantc> heh
13:48	<ogra> vagrantc, thats enough for me :)
13:48	everything that doesnt make me need to de with police officers in the middle of the night on a park bench is good :)
13:49	<vagrantc> ogra: arriving wednesday evening?
13:49	<ogra> yeah
13:49	same flight as warren
13:50	<vagrantc> and then gadi rolls in a few hours later ...
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13:53	<japerry_cat> vagrantc: if I don't see you before wednesday, you should def come by the lfnw booth --we're running my kiwi-ltsp boxes there
13:55	<vagrantc> ogra: this one isn't as close, but not real far: http://www.nwportlandhostel.com/
13:56	japerry_cat: i wasn'tplanning on going to oscon itself ... but i'm usually available after 7:30 in the evenings.
13:56	japerry_cat: were you going to be attending the ltsp developer hackfest?
13:56	<japerry_cat> vagrantc: I'll be there friday and part of saturday
13:56	<vagrantc> cool
13:56	<japerry_cat> I have a wedding sunday :-/
13:56	(not me!) :-P
13:56	<warren> ogra: where are you staying?
13:57	<japerry_cat> but there is free expo hall passes
13:57	so it might be worth coming for a few hours weds or thurs vagrantc
13:58	<ogra> warren, i'd love to know that myself :)
13:58	<warren> I wonder if I should check baggage or not...
13:58	<ogra> warren, worst case on vagrantc's couch i guess ... but i'll try to get a room at the hostel above
13:59	<vagrantc> japerry_cat: maybe
13:59	ogra: oh, i don't even have a couch :)
13:59	<warren> is vagrantc staying near freegeek?
13:59	<vagrantc> warren: i'm a ways from freegeek, but near a major bus line that goes by freegeek
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14:01	<warren> mccann: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444552
14:15	<ace_suares> hey ogra
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14:17	<moldy> hi
14:17	is it possible to downgrade the client kernel on ubuntu 8.04?
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14:38	<ltsppbot> "Gadi" pasted "ogra, Blinny: adds blacklist, lts.conf variable, and fixes wtmp issue" (80 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/35
14:42	<Blinny> Gadi: Where is /usr/bin/LDM_keepalive?
14:43	<Gadi> Blinny: that would be a server-side scriptthat should return a list of process IDs
14:43	<ace_suares> Gadi can you read the output from strace ? I feel like I am blind...
14:43	<Gadi> for example: pgrep -u $USER screen
14:43	<Blinny> Gadi: As yet unwritten?
14:43	<Gadi> Blinny: indeed - only needed if you want to blacklist more procs
14:43	not required
14:43	<Blinny> Right on
14:44	<Gadi> figured it was a good extensible compromise
14:44	:)
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14:44	<Gadi> note the: LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION variable
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14:44	<Gadi> needed to enable this now
14:44	<Blinny> Dig.
14:44	<Gadi> ... and the wtmp issue was that the sentinel spawns bash which spawns sh
14:45	so, sh is a grandkid
14:45	and I was only preserving kids
14:45	so, now I preserve the grandkid
14:45	(it was the sh that was registering with wtmp)
14:46	enjoy! speaking of kids...
14:46	gotta go pick up mine
14:46	ace_suares: maybe we can pick this back up tomorrow
14:46	?
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14:49	<ace_suares> gadi sure i am imposing on your time anyway and gratefull you want to help!
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14:58	<ace_suares> gadi still there... good news.. !
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15:35	<moldy> in some configurations, my thin client drops me into a busybox shell. why?
15:35	at what kind of problem does this hint?
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15:40	<moldy_> hi again
15:41	now i get an error msg: mounting /dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed: no such device
15:41	any ideas?
15:41	i downgraded the kernel to 2.6.20 (ubuntu) because the nic in the client does not work with my current one :-/
15:45	i can compile my own kernel that contains a working nic driver, but i don't know what causes the 2.6.20 to fail to mount /dev/nbd0...
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16:14	<ogra> wow, that was a massive lightning ... 1h no power
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16:17	<ab2> hello has anyone used a terminal called an ebox with LTSP5?
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16:18	<vagrantc> ab2: they're a little difficult, from what i hear
16:18	<ogra> ab2, the ebox is really only suited for running single app kiosk setups
16:18	nothing to use with ltsp5 in a desktop mode
16:19	<ab2> um - bugger - I want to run a range of applications
16:19	<ogra> if you want a cheap terminal thats usable, buy a thincan
16:19	they are sold for €50 or €100 depending on the model
16:20	<ab2> however I've been reading on running firefox locally - was hoping to do this on the ebox
16:20	i'm from South Africa
16:20	will google to see if i can get that 'thincan'
16:21	<ogra> http://www.artecgroup.com/thincan/models.html
16:21	the DBE61 is a good device, not fast but sufficient
16:22	<ab2> don't see a local reseller for that here
16:24	I'd like to understand - why can't the ebox run several applications off the server?
16:25	<ogra> the device embeds everything into one chip in a very bad way, beyond that there is no driver for audio support on it
16:25	at least on 2.6 kernels (and ltsp5 doesnt support 2.4)
16:25	<ab2> ok - glad I asked here
16:25	<vagrantc> well, no recent version of LTSP5 :)
16:25	<ab2> are there any other brand of terminals I can use?
16:26	<ogra> disklessworkstations has some, but they are more expensive
16:26	<ab2> how about the hp thin clients?
16:27	<ogra> nearly everyting that doesnt actually uses a SiS CPU (like the ebox) but something pentium compatible should be fine
16:27	if you can choose pich something thats PXE capable ... makes everything easier
16:27	*pick
16:30	<ab2> ah hold on! the thincan website points to a company called revnetek - they fortunately have a office here in SA!
16:30	ace_suares has joined #ltsp
16:31	<ab2> I'll send them an e-mail now
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16:31	<ab2> ogra: what model would you use if you could?
16:32	<ace_suares> ogra, you busy ?
16:32	<ogra> if i could choose i'd turn back time and use a LTSP Term 150 from disklessworkstations.com ... but hey dont sell them anymore :)
16:32	*they
16:33	<ace_suares> ogra you wanna buy one from me :-)
16:33	<ogra> ace_suares, well, kind of
16:33	ace_suares, i have one at home, but thanks :)
16:33	<ace_suares> ogra just kiddin
16:33	<ogra> ace_suares, ab2 might though
16:33	<ab2> ogra: and can u run an app locally on these terminals too?
16:33	<ogra> if you need to get rid of them
16:33	<ace_suares> ogra well, they are not the best choice for some things
16:33	<barbosa> Hi for all, My keyboard is abnt2 I set XkbModel="abnt2" and not work, is there any tips ?
16:34	<ace_suares> ogra i hear you goto portland for ltsp hackfest
16:34	ogra so cool
16:34	<ogra> ab2, they are quite powerfull 500MHz devices
16:34	and have a decent amount of ram, they should be good for local apps ... (not that ltsp5 would support localapps yet)
16:34	ace_suares, yep, i will
16:34	<ace_suares> ogra spare 5 minutes or too busy !?
16:34	<ogra> i cat misss a hackfest :)
16:34	<ab2> firefox will be running alot of flash and movies so looking to put at least this on
16:35	<ogra> *cant
16:35	ace_suares, shoot
16:35	<ace_suares> ab2 yeah for flash and youtube and all we really need local apps or 1 Gb network :-)
16:35	<ab2> ogra: huh? on the ltsp website they show how to do this
16:35	<ogra> ab2, not for ltsp5
16:35	<ace_suares> ogra k, i got this insane setup, where damns small linux (DSL) runs inside kvm on 8.04
16:35	<ogra> but you can try indeed
16:35	<ace_suares> ogra and insede DSL runs win4lin, it all works perfect
16:36	<ab2> bummer!
16:36	<ace_suares> ogra but on the host (8.04 64bit) I can not ssh -X to the guest
16:36	ogra more precise: all pass work, but win4lin crashes
16:36	<ogra> ab2, hats what we will work on next weekend http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/HackFest2008
16:36	*thats
16:36	<ace_suares> ogra i tested ssh -X on a dapper 32bit machine it works perfect
16:37	ogra I got an strace from the guest but I cant read those
16:37	ogra anything comes to mind what could the probklem be or how to solve ?
16:37	<ogra> ace_suares, file a bug and subscribe bryce for a start
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16:38	<ogra> there were issues with xcb which got recently added to Xorg ... that made OO.o crash for example
16:38	might be that win4lin uses that
16:38	<ace_suares> ogra really ? file a bug ? all other apps work )aterm and so). Just win4lin...
16:38	ogra oh okay...
16:38	<ogra> did you try different colordepths ?
16:38	<ace_suares> ogra not yet can try
16:38	<ogra> we restrict to 24bit by default with hardy
16:39	<ace_suares> ogra i think i was using 16
16:39	<ogra> could be that win4lin requires another depth
16:39	<ace_suares> ogra dont think so works on dapper
16:39	<ogra> of features that are not in newer xorg versions anymore or so
16:39	*or
16:40	<ace_suares> ogra so it's not ltsp problem really... just some ssh -X problem. can it be 64bit problem ?
16:40	<ogra> sure, that as well
16:40	hard to say, really
16:40	i have no win4lin experience at all
16:40	<ace_suares> ogra damn :-) tought you were gonna say LDM_XFORWARDING_JUST_WORK=1
16:40	<ogra> i didnt even use wine for the last 5 years or so
16:41	well, did you play with the directx setting ?
16:41	<ace_suares> ogra nothing to do with wine it's win4lin it's virtualization (inside kvm ha ha)
16:41	<ogra> oh, wait, do you use 8.04 or 8.04.1 ?
16:41	<ace_suares> ogra the ltsp.conf has that yes but I am on the server (and connecting to the guest os)
16:41	<ogra> there was a bug with the 8.04 cirrus driver that kvm uses
16:41	<ace_suares> ogra dont want to take anymore from your time, but can you find me someone who can read the output of strace !?
16:42	<ogra> i think that was fixed in .1
16:42	<jammcq> ogra: you in boston now?
16:42	<ogra> jammcq, yup
16:42	<ace_suares> ogra oh yeah that bug cost me 4 days :-) just dont use the cirrus driver then it works :-)
16:42	<jammcq> what's going on there?
16:42	<ace_suares> hi jammcq !!!!
16:42	<ogra> jammcq, developer sprint until friday ...
16:42	<jammcq> wow, in boston?
16:42	<ogra> yeah, in our lexington office
16:43	<jammcq> wow
16:43	<ogra> we're spreading :)
16:43	<ace_suares> jammcq can you help me read an strace output ?
16:44	<ogra> so many new customers ... so we needed more people and some actually like to work from an office
16:44	<Q-FUNK> nice
16:44	<ogra> we'll open more of them around the world over the next months
16:45	<Q-FUNK> anything here up north?
16:45	<ace_suares> ahhh open one in Curacao please :-) it can be called the burn-out office, to send all the buntout developers :-)
16:45	<ogra> nothing in europe, no
16:45	we have london there
16:45	<ace_suares> there's a pretty good tax regime too...
16:45	<Q-FUNK> london is outside Schengen. it's basically useless
16:46	<ogra> yeah, we should move our registration over to curacao from the isle of man :)
16:46	<ace_suares> ogra isle of man has nicer stamps tough.
16:46	<ogra> Q-FUNK, nah, it just makes the travleing more intresting :)
16:46	<ab2> ogra: the local apps issue - do I just monitor the website you gave me to check the status of this feature?
16:46	<Q-FUNK> it prevents me from ever working there
16:46	<ace_suares> bonaire will be inside schengen soon i think !
16:46	<ogra> ab2, well, monitor the code commits :)
16:46	<Q-FUNK> however, within Schengen, I can move arond freely
16:47	<ogra> ab2, https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
16:47	<ace_suares> bonaire is going to be part of the netherlands in 2010
16:47	<ogra> Q-FUNK, yeah, but no funny stories to tell about customs
16:47	<Q-FUNK> the hell with the funny stories. I just wanna be a part of this success story.
16:48	right now, UK is off-limits for me
16:48	<ab2> ogra: thank you! I haven't really fiddled with LTSP yet - only been reading. in da meantime if cannot run open apps should I have a really powerfull cpu and gigabit network to run flash well?
16:48	ogra: sorry I meant local apps
16:49	<ace_suares> ab2 dont think the cpu matters. what flash does in LTSP is sending bitmaps over the line... slow !
16:49	correct me if im wrong...
16:49	<Q-FUNK> canonical has always had a simple principle: they only hire people that won't need a residence permit at the office's location.
16:49	<ogra> ab2, all code changes we do for localapps will show up on that website
16:50	ab2, so you can monitor the status there and beyond that we'll all be here in the channel i guess
16:50	<Q-FUNK> there was mild interest in getting me on the team alreadhy back in 2005, but that was prevented because of citizenship issues
16:50	5 years alter, none of it has been resolved because european activities are still centered around UK
16:51	<ab2> ogra: thank you - I will monitor
16:52	* ogra has to catch the shuttle service ... bbl
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16:53	<ab2> so I take it at the moment it is not advised to run LTSP for an environment that uses heavy flash in firefox?\
16:53	<ace_suares> bye ogra!
16:53	ab2 you shoudl try it out and see whatg the effect is. It's not unusable but by no means fast. Check the LDM_DIRECTX thingy in lts.conf
16:54	<ab2> um - think I'm going to have to do a lot of testing
16:54	and hope ogra and team manage to sort out local apps fast!
16:54	:-)
16:55	<ace_suares> ab2 it's such a kick to see it working! Just test it. My first test where with a Pentium I 75 Mhz 32MB ram and they worked so good! (4 yrs ago)
16:55	<ab2> we have the budget to get a really kickass server
16:55	and shiny new terminals
16:56	<ace_suares> ab2 I am runnign on a 800 USD server now :-) core 2 duo E 6600 works great !
16:56	<ab2> so maybe I'm panicking for nothing
16:56	<ace_suares> ab2 I like the thin can's (artec group). See www.suares.an too
16:56	<ab2> cool
16:56	<ace_suares> ab2 how many cleints ?
16:56	ab2 the thin can's are 100 euro :-)
16:57	<ab2> yeah - there is a local distributor here in South Africa
16:57	will give them a call in da morning
16:57	<ace_suares> ab2 even better
16:57	<ab2> about 10 clients
16:57	but that will expand in time
16:57	<ace_suares> ab2 ha ha you can do it with a small server then
16:57	ab2 and buy a bigger one later
16:57	<ab2> to about 30 in 6 months
16:57	<ace_suares> ab2 or build a cluster :-))))
16:58	<ab2> hehe
16:58	one step at a time
16:58	<ace_suares> ab2 I had 27 cleints on a xeon dual 2400 i have a report there too somewehe on my site.
16:59	<ab2> and the clients run firefox with flash(youtube) no real issues?
16:59	<ace_suares> ab2 gotta go be back later
16:59	ab2 yes issues with flash
16:59	<ab2> ah dang
16:59	<ace_suares> ab2 like i said ti's sending bitmaps and not taking advantage of smart way X handles traffic
16:59	ab2 so that's gonna be slow someties too slow
16:59	<ab2> right
17:00	<ace_suares> ab2 are you running ubuntu 8.04 now ?
17:00	<ab2> yeah
17:00	<ace_suares> ab2 well just install ltsp on that and hook up a laptop or other computer
17:00	ab2 you have a laptop ?
17:00	<ab2> on it now
17:00	<ace_suares> ab2 the laptop is your only machine ?
17:00	<ab2> and I have a test 'server' :-)
17:01	<ace_suares> ab2 okay the server runs 8.04 ?
17:01	<ab2> nope - I can test it
17:01	yeah
17:01	<ace_suares> ab2 and your laptop, has it an option to run 'boot from network' in the bios ?
17:01	<ab2> so just aptitude install ltsp5?
17:01	<ace_suares> ab2 no no
17:01	<ab2> yup
17:02	sorry - will read the website ltsp wiki on that
17:02	<ace_suares> ab2: sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone openssh-server
17:02	and then 'sudo ltsp-build-client'
17:02	ab2 do you have 2 nics ?
17:03	<ab2> yes
17:03	on da server that is
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17:03	<ace_suares> ab2 you need to configure your 2nd nic to 192.168.0.1 before installing
17:03	<johnny> why does oscon internet suck so bad.. :(
17:03	<ab2> eth1?
17:03	<ace_suares> ab2 then you will be ready very quick :-)
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17:03	<ace_suares> ab2 yeah, via network manager or in /etc/network/interfaces
17:03	<johnny> up down, up down
17:04	<ab2> that simple hugh?? :-)
17:04	<ace_suares> johnny oh mine dus down up down up )
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17:04	<ab2> ok - gonna try that now
17:04	ace_suares: thank you so much for the time taken to help
17:04	<ace_suares> ab2 they made it REALLY simple I thnak them on my knees (all the devs here)
17:04	ab2 http://www.suares.an/index.php?page_id=25&news_id=206#news-top
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17:05	<ace_suares> ab2 dont follow the apt-mirror stuff
17:05	K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
17:05	<ace_suares> ab2 right gotta go now:-)
17:05	<ab2> right! that site is bookmarked now
17:05	cheers!
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17:10	<johnny> let's see if it's the client that can't hold it's liquor..
17:12	vagrantc, lemme know what you said
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17:13	<johnny> maybe it was my client disconnecting too early
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17:19	<ogra> vagrantc, heh, the first hostel answered now ... "we have a bed for the 26th" :P
17:20	<johnny> just the 26th? or points beyond?
17:20	<ogra> seems thats it .... OSCON surely hogs all the cheap places with hackers
17:20	* johnny sees hotel vagrant in your future
17:20	<ogra> yeah, me too
17:20	lets see what the other one says
17:21	* johnny is at oscon already... sorta
17:22	<ogra> i'm expecting us to be in a group for the whole day anyway so i likely dont need anything that goes beyond a bed ... but i'm not really after a dorm since i sleep very badly with many people in the room
17:23	<johnny> ogra, .. guess you shouldn't be in the armed forces
17:25	<ogra> johnny, i wouldnt :)
17:25	in germany you can choose ... and i picked not to
17:25	<johnny> you would be sleeping badly for a LONG TIME
17:25	<ogra> definately
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17:26	<johnny> i beat you to portland :)
17:26	i'm just staying with friends tho
17:26	otherwise i would share my room
17:27	<vagrantc> looks like this hackfest will have representation from debian, ubuntu, fedora, gentoo and opensuse ... any major players we need to be recruiting for in the future ?
17:27	<ogra> well, i'm not that poor, i could afford the hilarious rates if i needed to but i'd really perfer not to if there are other options ...
17:27	slackware :P
17:28	<vagrantc> oh yeah.
17:28	<ogra> no, to be honest i dont see anyone missing
17:28	<vagrantc> yay.
17:28	<ogra> we have the big players everything else is deriving from one of these anyway
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17:57	<johnny> yay.. die user!
18:13	<ace_suares> die user ?
18:13	<ogra> yeah, thats german and means "the users"
18:14	:P
18:15	<moldy> my clients boot, but cannot login. i did run ltsp-update-sshkeys && ltsp-update-image
18:16	any hints? :)
18:17	i see the login prompt, but each time i try to login, it throws me back at the login prompt
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18:21	<johnny> no.. i meant my old user from my client
18:21	kept losing connection on this wifi
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18:32	<moldy> /var/log/ldm.log on the client says "X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication"
18:33	<vagrantc> can you ssh into the server with that username and password?
18:34	<moldy> vagrantc: yes, i can.
18:35	should i try ldm_directx?
18:35	<dberkholz> vagrantc: i've been talking to a couple of local X guys about joining us ... is there any room for that?
18:36	can't remember whether we already discussed this
18:36	<vagrantc> dberkholz: i think we can handle a few more folks, sure.
18:36	<dberkholz> vagrantc: ok, cool
18:36	<vagrantc> dberkholz: especially on sunday
18:36	friday/saturday, we'll just have a room that will likely get moderately crowded
18:37	<dberkholz> i suspect friday is more likely for the intel X folks
18:37	<vagrantc> we'll manage, i'm sure :)
18:37	<moldy> hm, i think it is an x11 problem, not an ssh one...
18:38	<vagrantc> main limitation will be bandwidth ... so if folks could make mirrors of anything they might be doing massive downloads of, that would be good.
18:41	although we might actually have a faster connection by the weekend...
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18:41	<moldy> oh. i just created another test user -- using that account, it works
18:41	something related to .Xauthority?
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18:50	<ace_suares> vagrantc, do you have time (and lust) to look at my strace output ? it's not really ltsp related and yet it is
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18:56	<vagrantc> ace_suares: i think i have neither time nor lust, at the moment :)
19:01	<moldy> those intel atom bundles make nice cheap thin clients
19:01	i am testing one here right now
19:02	the only drawback is the noise... but the performance is very good, especially in relation to the price
19:02	<johnny> how much?
19:03	<moldy> i would have to look up the exact price, but well below 200€ for cpu+board+mini itx case
19:03	board+cpu is only 65 euro
19:04	i had alot of trouble getting the nic to work with ubuntu/ltsp, but now that it works, it's very nice. youtube is 100% fluid even with the vesa driver.
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19:06	<johnny> these xmpp folks are crazy :)
19:06	good crazy :)
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19:19	<ace_suares> moldy, you got utube to work in real time ?
19:20	vagrantc, okay... it's just not something i'd ask in #ubuntu... and I have to admit somethings are way to complicated for me.
19:22	<moldy> ace_suares: yep
19:22	ace_suares: it ran "good" even with the thin client that has a via graphics card... with the intel atom, it runs perfect
19:23	(via graphics card and slower processor)
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19:31	<ace_suares> moldy: that's great news.. I tought it was impossible due to bandwidth constraints...
19:31	<moldy> ace_suares: bandwidth never was the problem for me
19:31	client performance was, afaict
19:31	<ace_suares> moldy yeah well 100MB is what we have and flash/director and all that stuff (games and so) run slooooow
19:32	<moldy> bandwidth is a problem for fullscreen videos here... youtube works fine if the client is fast enough
19:32	<ace_suares> moldy but you say it's the graphicsd card and the processor ?
19:32	<moldy> yes, at least here
19:32	<ace_suares> hmm gotta check that out one day...
19:33	<moldy> i measured the network traffic while watching youtube... iirc it was about 16mbit
19:33	<ace_suares> moldy, can you read and interpret strace output ??
19:33	<moldy> ace_suares: a little bit
19:33	<ace_suares> 16mbit... that would break down at 30 clients or so.. well more early I guess,. can't see a whole class room doing that yet !?
19:34	moldy in strace, stat64 means some 64bit operation or is that a 32bit thing ?
19:34	moldy we have 100Mb of course not MB.
19:34	<moldy> ace_suares: let me check
19:35	ace_suares: stat is a system call that is used to get information about files and directories
19:36	ace_suares: stat64 is for large files, i think
19:36	<ace_suares> moldy ok you want to try and see whty my app crashes ? If you have time...
19:38	moldy where did you get that explanation, I searche google quite a lot
19:38	<moldy> ace_suares: i can take a look
19:39	<ace_suares> moldy http://www.suares.an/win2log.tgz it's a 103kB tarball.
19:39	<moldy> ace_suares: i know the stat system call because i program a bit myself... so i just had to google for the meaning of stat64. http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/iseries/v5r1/ic2924/info/apis/stat64.htm that site mentions large file support.
19:40	<ace_suares> moldy yeah i was just looking for a list of all the syscalls explained...
19:40	<moldy> ace_suares: hm, i cannot see a download there :)
19:41	<ace_suares> oh lemme check
19:41	moldy oh blast it's http://www.suares.an/file/win2log.tgz
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19:45	<moldy> ace_suares: hm sorry, i cannot see at first glance what the error is... looks rather complex
19:46	it doesn't seem to "crash" in a strict sense of the word though
19:46	<ace_suares> moldy yes complex for me and you but I guess there are ppl out there that read this in 10 secs :-)
19:46	<moldy> it's multiple processes...
19:46	<ace_suares> moldy: it's starting an app via ssh -X, and that app opens on the remote desktop bit the dies.
19:46	moldy it seems to spawn three children
19:47	<moldy> ace_suares: yep
19:47	<ace_suares> moldy on a dapper machine (ubuntu 6.06) it works and on hardy 8.04 64bit it dont work...
19:47	<moldy> you don't have the source code, i assume?
19:47	<ace_suares> moldy I also see a lot of file not founds... weird..
19:47	mody the app is not free :-(
19:47	mol\dy the app is not free :-(
19:47	moldy the app is not free :-(
19:47	my bad :-)
19:48	<moldy> you might want to limit the strace to a few syscalls
19:48	tracing just open is often a good idea
19:48	might hint at a missing file for example
19:48	<ace_suares> moldy i can try that but is the open the problem ? and mind you, it's working form 6.06 !
19:48	<jammcq> ace_suares: was the dapper machine also 64-bit ?
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19:49	<ace_suares> heey jammcq! honoured ! no, the dapper was 32 bit.
19:50	<moldy> ace_suares: i don't know what the problem is, but it's more promising to watch a few syscalls at a time than to try to make sense out of 14k lines of text ;)
19:50	<ace_suares> moldy if you say just trace open, then i'll do that! want me to do that ?
19:50	<jammcq> ace_suares: which file are you looking at?
19:51	<ace_suares> jammcq you mean the tracelog ? it's here: http://www.suares.an/file/win2log.tgz
19:51	<jammcq> that's like 4 logs
19:51	<moldy> ace_suares: i am just making suggestions ;)
19:51	<jammcq> which one?
19:51	<ace_suares> jammcq I think the last one is the culprit. I used -ff so it records it forks.
19:52	<jammcq> --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) ---
19:52	tjre
19:52	there's the error
19:52	it's having trouble with old_mmap()
19:52	<ace_suares> jammcq yeah cool :-) a segfault.... let me try to picture the monster, okay... ?
19:53	<jammcq> probably because the app is built for 32-bit and you are running it on 64-bit
19:53	all those file-not-founds are perfectly normal
19:53	<ace_suares> 'server' or 'host' = ubuntu 8.04, ltsp installed (doenst matter yet)
19:53	<jammcq> can you try it on a 32-bit ubuntu 8.04 ?
19:53	<ace_suares> on the server, there is kvm, inside kvm there is Damns Small Linux (DSL).
19:54	jammcq i dont have 32 bit 8.04 at hand but I guess I can make a vm later on...
19:54	inside DSL is win4lin and inside that win98 ha ha a box in a box in a box...
19:54	<jammcq> is this merge ?
19:54	<ace_suares> jammcq yep
19:54	<jammcq> doesn't that use virtualization?
19:54	<ace_suares> okay now i start the kvm and login to it, and issue 'win'. Perfect !
19:54	jammcq yes i think so it does virt
19:55	jammcq even xxx86 virt !
19:55	<jammcq> you can't do virtualization inside a virtual machine
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19:55	<ace_suares> then I do this: 'ssh -X 127.0.0.1 win' and that works perfectly !
19:55	jammcq yes you can it's working perfectly ! didn't work with qemu tough works with kvm
19:55	jammcq really !
19:55	<jammcq> hmm
19:56	<ace_suares> jammcq nice monster eh ?
19:56	<jammcq> I don't know win4lin and I don't know qemu or kvm, so I'm not sure what is possible
19:56	<ace_suares> http://www.suares.an/index.php?page_id=25&news_id=212#news-top
19:56	<jammcq> but i'd try setting up a 32-bit environment and see if it works there
19:56	<ace_suares> point is, it works, hallelujah !
19:57	where was I oh yeah, so, 'win' inside dsl and 'ssh -X 127.0.0.1 win' inside dsl both work.
19:57	<jammcq> hmm
19:57	<ace_suares> on dapper, ssh -X remote-dsl-via-kvm-via-ubuntu works too !!
19:57	on the host, ubuntu 8.04 64 bit, ssh -X dsl-vm win does crash
19:58	<jammcq> is your DSL 64-bit or 32-bit ?
19:58	<ace_suares> now I am trying to find out why it crashes. ogra suggested xcb ? and gadi said maybe sound ? pulse ?
19:58	jammcq 32bit
19:58	<jammcq> so you are trying to run win4lin under DSL under Ubuntu ?
19:59	<ace_suares> what does worrk is, from ubuntu 8.04 64bit, 'ssh -X dsl-vm aterm' or any other app. It's just win4lin that crashes.
19:59	so I think 64 bit machine can do ssh -X to a 32bit machine
19:59	<jammcq> so try running ldd against win
19:59	to see if it's finding all the libaries it needs
19:59	<ace_suares> win is a bash script
19:59	it's dosexec that starts
19:59	<jammcq> ok, so modify the bash script to call 'ldd' against the binary
19:59	<ace_suares> dosexec is the binary
20:00	<jammcq> so, 'ldd dosexec'
20:00	<ace_suares> but isnt the binary executed on the dsl-vm ????
20:00	<jammcq> prolly similar to the way you ran strace
20:00	<ace_suares> isn't EVERYTHING run on the dsl-vm ???
20:00	<jammcq> the bash script is also running on dsl
20:00	<ace_suares> jammcq yes
20:00	<jammcq> so run ldd on dsl so you can see what libraries it's trying to load
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20:01	<ace_suares> jaamcq I want to do that but why... it's working when called from a dapper machine!
20:01	jammcq the win shouldnt need libraries from the machine wheere I run ssh -X should it !?
20:01	<jammcq> you are running dsl on dapper?
20:02	<ace_suares> jammcq: no, I am running dsl inside kvm on hardy
20:02	<jammcq> win4lin on dsl on dapper?
20:02	<ace_suares> win4lin on dsl in kvm on hardy
20:02	<jammcq> so from your dapper machine, you can run win4lin on hardy?
20:02	<ace_suares> hmmm actuallu win98 inside win4lin on dsl inside kvm on hardy.
20:03	and I can ssh -X thatmachine win and it works
20:03	from a dapper machine not from the hardy machine
20:03	what am I missing !?
20:03	<jammcq> ummm
20:03	maybe DISPLAY isn't set or something
20:04	<ace_suares> so if you where on dapper now, and you would 'ssh -X myip win' you would get win98 in your face...
20:04	<jammcq> hmm
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20:04	<ace_suares> I checked DISPALY but it seems okay, it works on dapper (that needs a DISPLAY) and other apps work on hardy (aterm).
20:05	why would it segault ? how is it interacting differently with the X on hardy then the X on dapper ?
20:05	or maybe it's because hardy is the host for the guest... and I should try from another hardy64 machine see if it works..
20:06	I hoped the strace woudl tell something more interesting...
20:06	oh yeah and the homedir for the user on dsl is mounted NFS from the host (grin)
20:06	final goal is to run the win on the thin clients...
20:07	<jammcq> my final goal would be to eliminate win
20:08	<ace_suares> jammcq that is an interesting discussion and yes it's my goal too.
20:09	jammcq but on our schools with no money, they have tons of educational (dutch) softweare that runs under
20:09	win98 or someother miscreant from redmond
20:09	and there si NO usable software in the Free part of the world ! So how can I eliminate win at this time ?
20:09	I can only make their maintenance zero (they have no money for maintenance and you now winstuff will neeed tons of maintenance)
20:10	and I can make their pc's in the class room cheap and not stealabler (last year 40 laptops got stolen form a school)
20:10	AND i can make it so that they only will see their app and nvere see win
20:10	(startign win with the educational software as shell)
20:11	AND they can fall back to ubuntu / ltps for browsing, office, so at least we have one foot in the door.
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20:11	<ace_suares> I think I am followng a path that can really make a difference in our system here on the island.
20:12	(and it took so much time to try to integrate all this !)
20:12	<jammcq> so, vmware-server is a free download. any way to use that instead of win4lin ?
20:13	<ace_suares> jammcq win4lin has many advantages, most prominently the '
20:13	'provisioning',. In that scenario you make ONE win install with all the software, and kind of clone symlink) all
20:13	the other instances. THis means that the main install can never be compromised!
20:14	and due to excellent shared mem management, I can run 27 win98 with each 128 MB allocated, in under a GB including linux !
20:14	<jammcq> wow
20:14	<ace_suares> jammcq i tested that, ran 27 x openoffice plus wesnoth plus stellarium plus microsoft office plus 2 educational progrmas without a single hiccup!@@
20:15	jammcq thats why i dont even try with xp
20:15	and really ALL the software that they would like to use (but are not using) runs on win98
20:15	they have 30 donated computers all P II or so. big sh*t to maintain and to lean to run XP
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20:15	<ace_suares> so I think I cna make it possible via LTSP and Linux and yes, win4lin and win98, to have 2 pc'
20:16	s per classroom for a VERY low amount....
20:16	so this project goes from NOTHING (a buch of unusable hardware) to 2 pc's per classroom in 15 classes !
20:17	win98 and win4lin 3.0 are not even supported anymore but I get some support ferom win4lin people
20:18	you cna read http://www.suares.an/file/9 if you want to know more about the 27 pc's :-) this was under breezy
20:18	which supports the win4lin kernel mods but in the newer kerneles it isnt supported
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20:18	<ace_suares> hence the contorted kvm/dsl stuff.
20:19	* ace_suares wishes he could be in portland for the hackfest, even just to pur drinks and give backruns :-)
20:19	<ace_suares> pur=pour
20:19	<jammcq> heh
20:20	that's why we bring Gadi :)
20:20	<ace_suares> ah but Gadi does a lot more then that :-)
20:21	I feel like a child everytime I talk to him or you or ogra or vagrantc or scotty and so on... really stupid i feel !
20:23	anyway I bugged everyone at #ltsp that I know of :-) I will go get more cigarettes and beer and watch a DVD maybe
20:23	the solution will come in my dreams :-)))
20:23	<jammcq> heh
20:23	it must be late at nite there
20:23	<ace_suares> 21:23 (we are gmt-4)
20:23	curacao, remember ?
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20:24	<jammcq> oh yeah
20:24	<ace_suares> good palce for a hackfest... today lacnic is meeting here... wish there would be more of those events..
20:24	<jammcq> when yuo said "dutch software", I was thinking the netherlands
20:25	<ace_suares> well it was a colony of the dutchies
20:25	<jammcq> ah
20:25	* ogra starts to develop a slight kind of hate against the US
20:25	<ace_suares> we got three official languges now, dutch, english (for the windward islands like St Martin) and Papiamentu (for the leeward islands, cuaracao and bonaire).
20:26	* ace_suares remarks: only now !?
20:26	<ogra> yes, i used to like it here
20:26	a lot actually
20:26	<jammcq> ogra: what's the problem?
20:26	<ace_suares> I never went, 20 yrs ago when I needed a visa they asked for my skin color.
20:26	<jammcq> btw, I think you liked Michigan, cuz we showed you a good time :)
20:26	<ogra> my ipod got stolen from my locked hotel room from the nightstand
20:27	<jammcq> holy crap
20:27	<ace_suares> ogra, you sure you ar enot in venezuela ?
20:27	<ogra> there were three occurences in my life where stuff got stolen from me
20:27	<jammcq> ogra: that really sucks
20:27	<ogra> on was my bycicle when i was seven ... the second was in mountainview where i got pickpocketed (still didnt claim my driver license back) and third was today
20:28	<ace_suares> yeah but is that the fault of the US ?
20:28	<ogra> ace_suares, well, i dont lock my home nor did i ever lock my car ... i never got anything stolen
20:28	in the US 2/3 of the incidents happened
20:29	<ace_suares> my mother told me 20 yrs ago she never locked her home or car
20:29	<jammcq> ogra: we'll be sure to show you the better side of our country later in the week
20:29	<ogra> statistically thats a bad picture of this country
20:29	<ace_suares> but now we all live behind bars :-(
20:29	Zummern !
20:29	<ogra> well, time for a new ipod i guess ... i dont cry for it ... but for the music on it for which i dont have any copies
20:30	<ace_suares> iTunes ?
20:30	<jammcq> yeah, that's extremely inconvenient
20:30	<ogra> (like the canonical jam session from plymouth in november, which was totally unique)
20:30	<ace_suares> ah
20:31	but someones' got a copy of that no ?
20:31	i wouldnt feel save after that happening in my hotel room
20:31	<jammcq> there's prolly even a video
20:32	<ace_suares> hey jaamcq, thx a lot for looking at the tracelog, and ogra, hope you get over it soon and it wont happen again, I am off to dream about ssh -X :-)))
20:32	<jammcq> ciao ace_suares
20:32	<ace_suares> jammcq of course. sorry.
20:33	<jammcq> sorry?
20:33	<ace_suares> i wrote jaamcq
20:33	<jammcq> heh
20:33	didn't even notice :)
20:34	<ace_suares> he
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22:48	<ace_suares> anyone still alive ?
22:48	:-)
22:49	isnt' this an awfully large value ?
22:49	old_mmap(NULL, 201330688, PROT_READ\|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE
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