IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 December 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:14 | <elias_a> Morning, dudes!
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| 04:45 | <us3r> hello, sorry but i dont speak english very well. I want to miragte to ltsp in my school. At the moment i end testing ltsp and it works fine. But i have one doubt about graphics card on the server. whether the graphics card on the server is important? Or maybe only on thin client is important?
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| 04:46 | i want to buy new server, and i wonder about video card...
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| 04:47 | could someone help me :)?
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| 04:53 | <Appiah> it'ts not important us3r
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| 04:53 | graphic card on the server does not matter
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| 04:53 | only on the thin client it can be a factor
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| 04:56 | <us3r> ok but i wonder about graphics rendering on this server. For example if i have basic vesa graphic on server and on the thin clients i have for example nvidia graphics
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| 04:56 | <Appiah> for what application?
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| 04:57 | <us3r> i want to use for example firefox, open office, gcompris and maybe sometimes gimp vlc
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| 04:57 | could you help me with choose good server for this?
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| 04:58 | i have two sepcification for a server:
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| 04:59 | 1. intel quad core xeon e5405 with 8GB DDR2, and graphics is ATI ES1000 32MB
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| 05:00 | 2. amd quad core opteron 2378, 8GB RAM with XGI Volari Z7 graphics
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| 05:01 | this must work with about 60 clients (max)
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| 05:01 | oh, of course i have 2xCPU
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| 05:04 | <alkisg> The clients' graphics card is important, the server's isn't.
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| 05:04 | <Appiah> My question was about the graphics rendering
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| 05:05 | I dont see a problem with the graphics cards...
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| 05:05 | server does not matter ,client , you might have to set some configurations for those clietns in lts.conf
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| 05:05 | but thats about it
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| 05:06 | <alkisg> The only point where the server's card is important is if you want to use nvidia's binary drivers
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| 05:06 | <Appiah> on the clients?
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| 05:06 | <alkisg> If you do, it'll be much easier if all of the clients along with the server have nvidias
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| 05:07 | Nvidia overwrites some opengl libraries with its own, so it can be a problem unless all use nvidia
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| 05:07 | <pts> Hi all :) I'm working at a school, and we're using LTSP for a few class rooms, with a total of 7 LTSP servers. Some servers are more used than others. Our big problem on a couple of the rooms is that the performance is incredible slow. We're quite sure that flash pages are the big reason for this.
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| 05:07 | . I'm trying to test out LTSP-cluster in a test environment to see if that could help the situation, but the documentation for this is so bad that I'm having trouble to make it work. Anyways; my question is how do you guys solve this problem with flash?
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| 05:07 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 05:07 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "flash" :: Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
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| 05:09 | <us3r> ok, soo if i buy one of this server and clients with good grpahics card everything shold be good?
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| 05:09 | <alkisg> "(12:56:17 μμ) us3r: ok but i wonder about graphics rendering on this server. For example if i have basic vesa graphic on server and on the thin clients i have for example nvidia graphics" ==> If the clients have nvidia graphics, do buy an nvidia card for your server as well, it'll be easier.
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| 05:10 | Also, it's a little difficult to install nvidia binary drivers on the clients
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| 05:10 | Intel cards for the clients are more easy to setup (=they usually work out of the box)
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| 05:10 | <us3r> ok but i can make image only for clients with nvidia and next image for others?
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| 05:11 | <alkisg> Yes, you can. But do you want to maintain 2 images?
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| 05:11 | Also, if you have nvidia on some of them, and not on others, you'll still have the opengl libs problem
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| 05:11 | So nvidia is better only if you have nvidia everywhere...
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| 05:12 | <us3r> ok i understand :)thank You
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| 05:13 | ... and my second question about Yours experience with CPU... opteron or xeon?
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| 05:14 | * alkisg doesn't know about any of them, as he has smaller labs where dual or quad core are more than enough | |
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| 05:20 | <pts> one more quick question: any views on upgrading to 64 bit on LTSP server? more RAM is ofc one thing, but any other issues to be aware of, good or bad?
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| 05:36 | <cyberorg> pts, you don't really need 64bit for more RAM
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| 05:36 | <ogra> pts, ubuntu ?
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| 05:37 | pts, in case of ubuntu you just need to install the PAE enabled kernel ... it supports up to 64G on 32bit
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| 05:41 | <pts> ok, just had the impression that it would be better with 64 bit compared to PAE, but besides that. Anything to gain on using 64 bit compared to 32 bit in an LTSP environment?
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| 07:26 | <cyberorg> hi ogra :)
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| 08:38 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:39 | <alkisg> Hi sbalneav :)
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| 08:55 | <cyberorg> moin sbalneav
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| 08:55 | <sbalneav> Hey cyberorg !
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| 08:56 | <sbalneav> We've had a fellow here, ehsomethingoranother
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| 08:56 | lookin' for help with kiwi. I've told him to keep his eyes out for you.
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| 08:57 | <cyberorg> sbalneav, yes saw that in logs, thanks :)
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| 08:57 | * alkisg buzzes sbalneav once more about commiting the logout patch whenever he has some free time... :D | |
| 08:57 | <cyberorg> he posted on mailing list, hopefully solved his issues
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| 09:01 | <sbalneav> alkisg: Dude! You're upstream now!
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| 09:01 | Go nuts!
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| 09:01 | If you want, I'll sit down later on this afternoon and walk you through it
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| 09:01 | piece of cake.
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| 09:02 | <alkisg> sbalneav: thanks, I'll try to read up on bzr to be somewhat ready :)
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| 09:02 | <sbalneav> alkisg: What's greek for "Up to my *ss in alligators"? Otherwise, I'd do it for you now :)
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| 09:03 | <alkisg> Heh... np, it'll be better if I learn to do it myself (not that I'll do it often, but the knowledge will be good :))
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| 09:34 | <scottmaccal> Where would be the best place to file a bug report on documentation?
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| 09:34 | The bucket?
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| 09:35 | <johnny> launchpad probably..
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| 09:35 | <scottmaccal> K.
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| 09:35 | <sbalneav> scottmaccal: which, ltsp documentation?
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| 09:35 | or Ubuntu documentation?
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| 09:36 | <johnny> /me assumed ltsp docs.. but could be wrong..
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| 09:36 | you're right sbalneav ..
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| 09:36 | so.. tell me where ltsp doc bugs would be filed sbalneav ? for the future
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| 09:36 | in case somebody else asks..
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| 09:37 | <scottmaccal> LTSP
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| 09:38 | Well, there are broken links @ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 09:39 | I would like to help fix.
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| 09:39 | Plus, I am trying to do an install using that documentation. :-)
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| 09:39 | I can fix along the way if possible.
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| 09:43 | <sbalneav> scottmaccal: With the wiki ones, just fix 'em
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| 09:43 | That's why it's a wiki.
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| 09:43 | Get yourself an account on the wiki server, and start editing.
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| 09:44 | johnny: Good question.
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| 09:44 | I wonder if ~ltsp-docwriters has a bug area?
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| 09:45 | <scottmaccal> sbalneav: Yeah, I know that. :-) I have an account and am logging in know. My question is what the link is suppose to be.
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| 09:46 | Sorry, I could have been more clear.
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| 09:46 | <sbalneav> johnny & scottmaccal: I guess here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters
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| 09:47 | Which link's borken?
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| 09:48 | <scottmaccal> this link: LTSP-Wiki
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| 09:48 | found on: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
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| 09:49 | <sbalneav> Wiki's at http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Main_Page
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| 09:56 | <scottmaccal> K. I just made a request to join the documentation team.
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| 09:56 | <davidj> scottmaccal, hello
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| 09:56 | <scottmaccal> davidj: hi. have we met?
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| 09:56 | <davidj> I don't think so.
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| 09:57 | <scottmaccal> davidj: Yeah, it is hard to tell on IRC. :-)
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| 09:57 | <davidj> I've been working on the ltsp docs, and your message about joining the docs team was the first thing I saw.
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| 09:58 | <scottmaccal> Cool.
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| 09:58 | <davidj> What do you want to do with the docs?
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| 09:58 | <scottmaccal> davidj: I can find where one files a bug @ https://edge.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters.
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| 09:58 | I am probably overlooking it.
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| 09:58 | can't I mean
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| 10:02 | davidj: I would like to be able to file bug reports. :-)
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| 10:02 | <davidj> I think you've found a bug in Launchpad ;-)
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| 10:03 | <scottmaccal> yay!
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| 10:03 | heh
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| 10:03 | <davidj> I'm not sure, though; Scotty may have turned the bug tracker off for the docs.
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| 10:03 | <sbalneav> Nope.
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| 10:04 | hold on, approving the requests
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| 10:04 | <scottmaccal> thank you.
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| 10:04 | <davidj> Good morning!
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| 10:04 | I hear you're sending us some of your weather, just in time for our party.
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| 10:05 | weatherman's calling for a combination of wet snow and snowy rain.
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| 10:06 | <sbalneav> k, both approved.
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| 10:06 | <davidj> Thanks
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| 10:06 | <sbalneav> As for filing bugs....
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| 10:06 | <davidj> I've been meaning to do that since Maine.
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| 10:06 | <sbalneav> Hmmm, do we have an actual ltsp-docs package in ubuntu?
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| 10:07 | bbiab, workping...
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| 10:08 | <davidj> sbalneav, No, we don't have a package.
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| 10:09 | If it's in Ubuntu, it doesn't belong to "Maintainers of the LTSP5 Documentation"
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| 10:17 | <alkisg> (06:17:44 μμ) ubottu: ltsp-docs (source: ltsp-docs): LTSP Documentation. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.99+bzr91-1 (lucid), package size 365 kB, installed size 800 kB
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| 10:19 | http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/ltsp-docs
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| 10:20 | And here's the bug page: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp-docs/+bugs
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| 10:21 | ...but that's only for the package, not for the wiki
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| 10:21 | (but maybe we could abuse it a little :))
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| 10:22 | <scottmaccal> alkisg: thanks for the link. I also found the "Report a Bug -->"
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| 10:22 | <alkisg> scottmaccal: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters is a team, bugs can't be reported against teams
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| 10:23 | <scottmaccal> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp-docs/+filebug is not the correct place to file a bug?
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> I don't think that's the correct place to file a bug against *the wiki*
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| 10:25 | It is the correct place to file a bug against the ltsp-docs package
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| 10:25 | <scottmaccal> alkisg: ahh. well, wikis will be wikis I suppose. :-)
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> But, as we don't have a seperate bug page for the wiki, perhaps we could also file bugs for the wiki at that page
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| 10:25 | <scottmaccal> Yeah
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> I'm just suggesting, others would need to take that decision :)
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| 10:26 | (or maybe just file a bug there, and we/they'll move it appropriately :D)
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| 10:27 | scottmaccal: but, do you really need to file a bug? Why not just fix whatever's wrong?
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| 10:27 | <scottmaccal> K
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| 10:27 | <ogra> the docs package gets synced from debian and contains the plain upstream docs
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| 10:27 | <scottmaccal> alkisg: It's not that I have to file a bug. I just wanted to know proper procedure.
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| 10:28 | I know with the Debian project they file bug reports for their website etc.
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| 10:28 | <ogra> ubuntu does that too
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| 10:29 | website, wiki, packages even overall usability bugs
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| 10:29 | though for wiki content you should really just fix it ...
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| 10:29 | thats why it is a wiki
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| 10:29 | <scottmaccal> Plus I am greedy and need the Kama points!
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| 10:29 | heh
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> !scottmaccal++
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| 10:29 | Here's a karma point ^^ :)
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| 10:30 | !karma scottmaccal
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| 10:30 | <ltspbot> alkisg: Karma for "scottmaccal" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
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| 10:30 | <ogra> heh
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| 10:30 | <scottmaccal> Cool.
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| 10:35 | <scottmaccal> So it says the documentation here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall says that one can install the LTSP server by pressing F4 and choosing from the menu. That does not seem to be the case with Jaunty, correct?
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| 10:37 | <ogra> thats been the case since hardy for all ubuntu alternate isos
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| 10:37 | <scottmaccal> ahh, alternate.
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| 10:38 | tstafford has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:38 | <ogra> (there is a reason why Ubuntu alternate CD is in bold text on that page ;) )
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| 10:38 | <scottmaccal> orgra: thanks for pointing that out >:-0
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| 10:39 | <scottmaccal> heheh
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| 10:39 | <ogra> :)
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| 10:41 | * scottmaccal Is having one of those days. | |
| 10:42 | <alkisg> ogra, got time to guide me to my first bzr push? I've pulled & modified, need to commit and push...
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| 10:43 | <ogra> if its an upstream change just use bzr commit -m'your commit message' and then push
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| 10:43 | <Gadi> alkisg: just "bzr add <file>" any new files that you added, and "bzr commit -m "<message>"" to commit and "bzr push" to push
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| 10:43 | <ogra> if its a distro specific change you prefic the text with [distro]
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| 10:44 | i.e. bzr commit -m '[Ubuntu] my shiny change'
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> Danke, trying first with the ldm change which doesn't involve a new file...
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| 10:44 | <ogra> so people know what to pull and whjat to ignore
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| 11:17 | <Ahmuck> anyone using cloud computing with ltsp?
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| 11:18 | <johnny> what does that even mean?
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| 11:18 | <johnny> in context of ltsp
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| 11:19 | if your users are using lots of web apps.. then i guess they are using cloud computing :)
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| 11:21 | <Ahmuck> well, i was thinking more along the lines of, offloading hugin to cloud
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| 11:22 | know nothing about cloud, i assume this would work?
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| 11:22 | so it's possible to offload 7 or 8 machines doing hugin and let the cloud do the stitching
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| 11:22 | <Ahmuck> am i smoking something?
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| 11:23 | <johnny> hugin?
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| 11:24 | offloading it to which cloud?
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| 11:24 | to other ltsp machines? some internet server farm?
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| 11:24 | if you're not tryin to offload it to clients.. then ltsp isn't really relevant to your scheme
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| 11:25 | and we would just call that clustering..
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| 11:25 | <Ahmuck> offload it to a server farm
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| 11:25 | ie, ubuntu cloud
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| 11:25 | <johnny> then it's not relevant to ltsp at all
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| 11:25 | <Ahmuck> well, it is if the server is bogging down and taking the clients with it
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| 11:25 | <johnny> sure.. but it would bog down any computer
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| 11:25 | <Ahmuck> the idea is to reduce the load on the server and still allow the clients to operate at full speed
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| 11:26 | ie, put the load in the cloud and then only relay back revelant info to the client
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| 11:26 | letting the server work as a relay
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| 11:26 | <johnny> sure.. but that's specific to the app
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| 11:26 | you'll have to talk to them
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| 11:26 | <Ahmuck> hrm, i may have the wrong impression of the cloud then, ie ubuntu cloud
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| 11:27 | <johnny> don't we all..
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| 11:27 | the cloud is nebulous..
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| 11:27 | but you would talk to ubuntu cloud people in that case, if you want a better understanding as to what it does
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| 11:27 | and not here
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| 11:27 | apps have to be coded to take advantage of teh cloud
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| 11:27 | either as a remote server farm, or storage
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| 11:28 | err remote processing server farm.. or remote storage :)
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| 11:28 | <Ahmuck> ok, that's the info i was looking for
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| 11:28 | <johnny> it's not magic
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| 11:28 | <Ahmuck> and not just hugin, but other intense applications
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| 11:28 | currently trying to run them on ltsp is not working
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| 11:28 | <johnny> yes.. perhaps better to find a web app that already does that kinda thing remotely
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| 11:28 | <Ahmuck> even when doing one or two machines
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| 11:29 | <johnny> rather than getting an app coded
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| 11:29 | <johnny> you could setup a seperate server to just run the app tho
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| 11:30 | make it so users just drop a file in a directory and the app processes it
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| 11:30 | <Ahmuck> in ltsp?
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| 11:30 | <johnny> once again.. ltsp isn't really relevant
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| 11:30 | <johnny> same deal as if you were using a normal machine
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| 11:30 | <Ahmuck> [11:29] <johnny> you could setup a seperate server to just run the app tho ?
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| 11:30 | <johnny> sure.. same deal as if the app was taking down your desktop or making it unusable
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| 11:31 | <Ahmuck> so from a client, the user would drop the file in the directory and the app would processes it?
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| 11:31 | <johnny> so from any computer (not just an ltsp client)
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| 11:31 | <Ahmuck> ie, the user would not know a difference
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| 11:32 | <johnny> and neither would anything else..
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| 11:32 | <Ahmuck> ok, so then that gives me a starting direction for resolving some performance issues
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| 11:32 | <davidj> Ahmuck: If the clients are powerful enough, you can run apps directly on them.
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| 11:32 | <johnny> best bet is talking to the specific app authors..
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| 11:33 | it's only recent that we're getting the whole "cloud storage" thing setup
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| 11:33 | via ubuntuone and desktopcouchdb
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| 11:33 | <davidj> If you have a single large app with lots of libraries (OpenOffice come to mind), then a single-app server is the way to go.
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| 11:34 | <johnny> it would be nice to run openoffice as a proper webapp..
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| 11:34 | <Ahmuck> desktopcouchdb?
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| 11:34 | <davidj> Why?
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| 11:34 | <johnny> then you could handle it any which way you please..
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| 11:34 | <Ahmuck> i see problems with the cloud, ie, privacy
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| 11:34 | <johnny> davidj, because it's easier to do stuff
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| 11:34 | Ahmuck, don't we all..
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| 11:35 | <davidj> johnny: How so?
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| 11:35 | <johnny> but you can run your own "cloud"
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| 11:35 | <Ahmuck> ya, why web apps
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| 11:35 | web apps make you subserviant to a master
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| 11:35 | <Ahmuck> they don't like you, cut your web app
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| 11:35 | <johnny> only if you run them on somebody else's server..
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| 11:35 | and not yours
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| 11:35 | <davidj> If you run OOo as a proper web app, you've got Firefox AND ooo taking up ram on your client.
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| 11:35 | <johnny> i use rouncdube for mail
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| 11:35 | why would you have OOo taking up ram?
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| 11:35 | on your client
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| 11:36 | Ahmuck, i run my own webmail for example..
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| 11:36 | <Ahmuck> anywho, that helps me understand the mechanics of using ltsp clients to do cloud computing
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| 11:36 | which is something that came to mind
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| 11:36 | <johnny> and that isn't not relevant to ltsp at all
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| 11:36 | <Ahmuck> johnny: getting ready to myself
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| 11:36 | <davidj> granted, the ooo part on the client would just be the client-side support.
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| 11:36 | <johnny> unless you're using the clients as part of the cloud that is..
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| 11:36 | <Ahmuck> as well as webdav for my own calenders
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| 11:36 | <johnny> Ahmuck, exactly..
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| 11:37 | <Ahmuck> johnny: however, don't you find spam filtering a problem. the one app i do use is internet mail, because it magically filters the spam for me
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| 11:37 | <davidj> If you set up one server to run openoffice, and a second one to run everything else, you can get very good performance.
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| 11:37 | <johnny> davidj, at least if you use firefox or epiphany as the entry point to all your apps you only have one thing to optimize :)
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| 11:37 | that's the benefit..
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| 11:37 | and webkit based browsers behave better
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| 11:37 | than firefox that is
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| 11:37 | Ahmuck, yeah.. i had to setup a spam filter
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| 11:37 | <davidj> johnny, So you're run Chrome on the clients, with no OS?
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| 11:37 | <johnny> greylisting seems to stop most spam
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| 11:37 | chrome.. no..
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| 11:37 | <Ahmuck> davidj: yes, i'm looking at trying to see what i can do about geting strong clients
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| 11:37 | <johnny> perhpas epiphany..
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| 11:38 | or midori..
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| 11:38 | whatever shakes out
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| 11:38 | <Ahmuck> i've been looking at some intel atom, 2ghz, 2g ram
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| 11:38 | <davidj> Ahmuck, you don't necessarily need big clients.
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| 11:38 | <Ahmuck> however the video is crummy in them
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| 11:38 | <davidj> oops, I missed the bit about video.
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| 11:38 | <johnny> davidj, you still need an OS to handle important things ;)
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| 11:38 | <davidj> If you're looking to run video on the clients, you probably do want big clients.
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| 11:38 | <johnny> i'd still think a DE environment is useful
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| 11:41 | <Ahmuck> clients are 150.00
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| 11:41 | <davidj> GodFather, Hello!
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| 11:42 | <Ahmuck> ok, nother question. back in 1992, 1993 we were running a dg unix system, and motif i believe. connect to the server and running esri mapping software on it. very similar situation iirc, ie, terminal clients
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| 11:42 | <Ahmuck> is ltsp that in linux now and it's just catching up?
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| 11:42 | <davidj> It's very similar.
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| 11:42 | <GodFather> davidj, hi how are u?
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| 11:43 | <johnny> that's just remote X Ahmuck ...
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| 11:43 | you can do that
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| 11:44 | you just don't get local storage and whatnot
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| 11:44 | <Ahmuck> soooo, assuming esri would run on a linux server, would ltsp clients be able to keep up so to speak?
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| 11:44 | <davidj> LTSP started back in the 90s, and used etherboot and NFS to boot a very cut-down version of Red Hat. All the client could do was start X.
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| 11:44 | <johnny> that's the ltsp part..
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| 11:44 | the ltsp part is glue to tie standard services together..
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| 11:45 | <johnny> Ahmuck, ssh -X user@host someXprog
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| 11:45 | and there ya go.. it's running on the remote server, and rendering on your computer
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| 11:45 | you just won't be able to use the file dialog or anything like that..
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| 11:46 | <Ahmuck> local storage?
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| 11:46 | ie, on the client?
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| 11:46 | thin client
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| 11:46 | terminal ... i'm to old to remember
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| 11:46 | <johnny> local to your account..
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| 11:46 | <davidj> Ahmuck, ltsp will let you do local storage.
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| 11:46 | <johnny> wherever that is
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| 11:46 | davidj, don't confuse him
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| 11:46 | and i shouldn't either :)
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| 11:47 | <davidj> johnny, you've kind of gone off-road ;-).
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| 11:47 | <johnny> i'm referring to the fact that the app running like that won't give you any ability to save files local to your account , only on the server where the app is
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| 11:52 | <Ahmuck> looks like i got dropped for a sec :(
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| 11:53 | <Ahmuck> sooo, johnny the ssh thingy, i assume you were referencing the dg and motif ?
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| 11:53 | <johnny> yes
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| 11:53 | old tech
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| 11:53 | still here
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| 11:54 | <johnny> of course much of it is being replacec by accessing web applications instead..
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| 12:00 | <Ahmuck> recently we lost connection here, fiber cut in the state, and it caused a slowdown for everybody, like downloading at 1mb / minute, or 10mb == 10 min. with web applications, you could end up with no workable machine
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| 12:02 | <johnny> uhmm.. once again.. just because they are accessible via a web browser, doesn't mean they run across the internet
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> Google chrome for linux beta: http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/w00t.html
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| 12:19 | <johnny> boo
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| 12:19 | silly google :(
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| 12:29 | <shawnp0wers> OK -- I know I can work around it, but does anyone know how to add a computer into a hardware group inside the ltsp-cluster web interface?
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| 12:29 | I can't figure out the way to do it
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| 12:29 | I've created a hardware group
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| 12:29 | <shawnp0wers> and can configure custom settings for computers in that group
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| 12:29 | but don't know how to ADD computers into it!!!
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| 12:29 | (the computers are created the first time they boot, but I can't get them from the RootNode into a hardware group)
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| 12:34 | Suggestions on what to try are welcomed. :) Here's what I see: http://twitpic.com/soupl
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| 12:39 | <Gadi> shawnp0wers: perhaps the Hardware Group is a characteristic of a particular computer
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| 12:40 | try drilling down into a particular node
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| 12:40 | maybe there's an option there
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| 12:40 | <shawnp0wers> Drilling down into a node is the problem, there seems to be no option to do so
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| 12:41 | <Gadi> it's not under Configuration?
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| 12:42 | <shawnp0wers> I can switch to "Black_Dells" under configuration, but there I can only manage lts.conf stuff
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| 12:42 | but assigning computers has me befuddled
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| 12:42 | <Gadi> you cannot switch to a node (by MAC)
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| 12:43 | under configuration
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| 12:44 | <shawnp0wers> well, i think I did something...
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| 12:44 | if you type something in the "name" under node properties
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| 12:44 | and click save
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| 12:44 | it does something
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| 12:44 | but I'm not sure what yet
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| 12:44 | * shawnp0wers 's brain hurts | |
| 12:45 | <shawnp0wers> oh no, I just renamed my RootNode
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| 12:45 | So i can rename that node
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| 12:45 | and create hardware_groups
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| 12:45 | but not sure how to assign computesr into groups yet
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| 12:46 | Gadi: Yes, I can drill down to a particular computer in the configuration tab
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| 12:47 | but assigning it to something doesn't appear to be an option
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| 12:48 | <Gadi> shot in the dark: under Nodes, pull the pulldown with Trash in it in you r pic to the node you want and hit Go
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| 12:48 | <shawnp0wers> SAdly, the only thing in the drop down menu is "Trash"
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| 12:48 | <Gadi> Then you will prolly get an option like Move to ....
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| 12:49 | hmm... this interface must have been designed by Canadians ;)
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| 12:49 | <alkisg> Heh :)
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| 12:49 | <shawnp0wers> hhehhehee
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| 12:51 | <CAN-o-SPAM> i wonder if someone has improved the interface out there??
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| 12:52 | <Gadi> CAN-o-SPAM: it's nice that you still believe in fairies
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| 12:52 | :)
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| 12:53 | <CAN-o-SPAM> Gadi: we must believe in the "unknown" to continue on happily right? ;)
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| 12:57 | * shawnp0wers sprinkles fairy bait all around the cluster | |
| 12:58 | * CAN-o-SPAM waits for the magic | |
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| 13:06 | <sbalneav> Gadi: I heard that :)
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| 13:06 | <Gadi> ah, here we go - maybe sbalneav knows how to work it
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| 13:06 | :)
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| 13:15 | <sbalneav> work what, something with clustering?
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| 13:15 | I haven't played with it yet... one sec, lemme see if stgraber's around
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| 13:15 | <shawnp0wers> sbalneav
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| 13:15 | yeah
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| 13:15 | just can't figure howto assighn a computer to a hardware group
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| 13:16 | :)
| |
| 13:16 | and I've racked my brains trying to figure it out
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| 13:16 | <sbalneav> I've im'd him
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| 13:16 | we'll see if I can make the genie appear
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| 13:17 | * shawnp0wers rubs... an LCD monitor. (No lamps in my office) | |
| 13:18 | <sbalneav> shawnp0wers: You always keep your lcd monitor in you lap? :)
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| 13:19 | <shawnp0wers> it's my iPhone darn it!
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| 13:19 | ;)
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| 13:19 | <sbalneav> Sure Sure.
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| 13:21 | <stgraber> shawnp0wers: what are you trying to do ?
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| 13:22 | <shawnp0wers> stgraber: Hi! :) I'm trying to add a computer to a hardware group
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| 13:22 | I'm sure it's simple, but I'll be dog gonned if I can figure it out
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| 13:22 | <stgraber> ok, so you created a new one in Nodes ?
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| 13:22 | then you go back on the first tab
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| 13:22 | you select it in the drop-down
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| 13:22 | <shawnp0wers> yes
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| 13:22 | ok
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| 13:22 | ok
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| 13:22 | <stgraber> then you assign the hardware properties you want to use for the matching
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| 13:22 | <shawnp0wers> I'm there
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| 13:23 | <stgraber> and all thin clients with these hardware properties will be considered as in this group (you can't see the list on the web UI though)
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| 13:23 | <shawnp0wers> oh, so what sort of hardware properties do you mean?
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| 13:24 | <stgraber> pciid, amount of memory, CPU
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| 13:24 | did you already boot a thin client ?
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| 13:24 | <shawnp0wers> yes
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| 13:24 | <stgraber> if so, selecting it in the list will let you see these properties for that thin client
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| 13:25 | <shawnp0wers> Ok, so in the group configuration, I pick one of the hardware specifications listed when looing at that client?
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| 13:25 | <stgraber> yep
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| 13:25 | <shawnp0wers> like "CPUNAME"
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| 13:25 | ok, gotcha
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| 13:25 | <stgraber> for example, one of my thin clients has: MEMTOTAL='444696'
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| 13:25 | <shawnp0wers> ok awesome, thank you SO much
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| 13:25 | <stgraber> you could make an hardware group matching MEMTOTAL >= 128000
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| 13:26 | that'll match this one and all thin clients with more than 128MB of RAM
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| 13:26 | np
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| 13:26 | we're actually working on the new UI at the moment, that should be a LOT more user-friendly ;)
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| 13:26 | though as we're rewritting everything from scratch, including all the backen components, that may take a while before it's out
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| 13:26 | <shawnp0wers> no problem, I appreciate the help
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| 13:27 | I'm having a problem now with occasional "almost booted" state of the thin client
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| 13:27 | but we'll see if that goes away after I try to debug it
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| 13:31 | stgraber: is that little "info" box supposed to go away if a thin client is in a hardware group?
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| 13:31 | <Lns> stgraber: what UI are you talking about?
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| 13:31 | italc?
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| 13:33 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stgraber: when should we expect to see the new UI?
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| 13:34 | * Gadi watches stgraber run to ask the fairies.... | |
| 13:38 | * shawnp0wers gets more dust | |
| 13:38 | <shawnp0wers> and rubs his iphone O.o
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| 13:39 | * CAN-o-SPAM sends picture of additional dust to shawnp0wer's iPhone | |
| 13:39 | * Lns looks around to see if he's in the right place...fairy dust, iphones, gadi provoking x-rated conversation....yep. I'm in the right place | |
| 13:39 | <CAN-o-SPAM> haha Hey Lns!!
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| 13:39 | <Lns> hey CAN-o-SPAM =)
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| 13:40 | <CAN-o-SPAM> Cali school's budgets dwindling like they are here in MI by chance?
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| 13:40 | <shawnp0wers> I'm polishing my iPhone, dangit!
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| 13:41 | <Lns> yep.. seems the money we're getting from the "stimulus" is going to stuff that has nothing to do with investing in the future
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| 13:41 | other than paying the already-employed peoples' paychecks
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| 13:41 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stimulus schmiulus
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| 13:41 | <Lns> heh
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| 13:41 | agreed
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| 13:43 | <Lns> it's very hard to talk to people about investments in the future with technology when they're having trouble staying afloat
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| 13:45 | <stgraber> shawnp0wers: I don't think so, but if you create a regular node and move the thin client inside it, it'll work fine
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| 13:45 | CAN-o-SPAM: well, as soon as we have the first modules written, we'll upload the code to LP
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| 13:46 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stgraber: just curious if you had any idea on a time frame for that?
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| 13:46 | <stgraber> CAN-o-SPAM: though at first it won't be possible to use it at all ;)
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| 13:46 | well, the plan is for the end of the week
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| 13:46 | but that's two weeks I've been rescheduling that ;)
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| 13:46 | <CAN-o-SPAM> why not possible to use it at all?
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| 13:46 | <stgraber> currently I have a minimal module working correctly with our ORM and doing the XML+RPC bits but no web UI for it yet
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| 13:47 | <stgraber> well, because the first module is just a basic one getting the MAC address from a thin client and putting that inside a DB
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| 13:47 | it won't manage the configuration yet or do the logging or anything that's required for ltsp-cluster
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| 13:48 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stgraber: don't we already accomplish grabbing a MAC? or are you re-writting this in a different language and i missed that?
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| 13:48 | <shawnp0wers> stgraber: I feel like an idiot, but how to I move a thin client to a new node...
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| 13:49 | wait !
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| 13:49 | I got it!
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| 13:49 | had to find a node, I just put "00" in the search field
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| 13:50 | <stgraber> CAN-o-SPAM: we rewrite the whole web part, rewrite our load balancer agent, our appserver agent and write an additional thin client agent
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| 13:50 | that last one will replace the current ltsp-cluster scripts that currently do http request to get the lts.conf
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| 13:50 | <shawnp0wers> SWEEET!!!! The info box is gone. :)
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| 13:51 | * shawnp0wers hugs stgraber, but a manly hug.. O.o | |
| 13:51 | <stgraber> so we basically rewrite every line of ltsp-cluster from scratch and standardize everything around xml+rpc over authenticated https
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| 13:51 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stgraber: so you have this done, just none of it in launchpad?
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| 13:51 | <stgraber> and make everything event-based, bi-directional communication, ...
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| 13:51 | <vmlintu> stgraber: are you using some framework for this?
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| 13:52 | <stgraber> we only have the first module of the control center done and the first module of the thin client agent done
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| 13:52 | that code is currently moving way too much to be put on LP (as in, we rewrite the whole module almost once a day), we hope to upload that this weekend
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| 13:53 | vmlintu: well, all the agents will share the same code base with different plugins (that'll be in Python) and the control center is in PHP using smary, jquery, php-xmlrpc and doctrine
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| 13:53 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stgraber: ah ok, well then i will look forward to testing this next week, that way i can give you good bug reports
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| 13:53 | <stgraber> so not an actual complete framework but a set of well-known tecnologies
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| 13:53 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stgraber: hopefully what is uploaded to LP is working :)
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| 13:54 | <stgraber> CAN-o-SPAM: well, depends if having a python script running on the thin client and adding a line in a webUI containing the thin client mac address can be considered as working ;)
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| 13:54 | but that's at least a good proof of concept as to what technologies we'll use and how the module structure is working
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| 13:54 | my current plan is to replace the old control center in the next 6 months
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| 13:55 | * shawnp0wers thinks ubuntu LTS would be a perfect time for such a thing... ;) | |
| 13:55 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stgraber: so what is your plan for people out there using LTSP-Cluster, how do you plan to help them migrate from old -> new??
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| 13:56 | <stgraber> CAN-o-SPAM: we haven't worked on the actual configuration (as in lts.conf generator) part yet, but there will probably be a migration tool of some sort for that
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| 13:56 | <ogra> shawnp0wers, LTS means "the least new features you can add as possible"
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| 13:56 | <stgraber> shawnp0wers: I don't plan to have it in Lucid
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| 13:56 | FeatureFreeze is in February and I won't be ready at this time
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| 13:56 | <shawnp0wers> awe shucks
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| 13:56 | <ogra> shawnp0wers, for LTS usually all focus is on stabilizing existing stuff to have as less bugs as possible
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| 13:57 | <CAN-o-SPAM> stgraber: is there somewhere the community can find a road map for your plan?
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| 13:57 | <stgraber> and that new code will almost certainly be buggy at first and I don't want that in the LTS
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| 13:57 | <shawnp0wers> ogra, stgraber: you're right, good call
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| 13:57 | so lts+1
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| 13:57 | <ogra> shawnp0wers, dont forget LTS means that crap has to be supported for 5 yeras on the server
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| 13:57 | <stgraber> though we have our PPA containing what we currently deploy for our customers here and that's quite well maintained for users who want the new stuff
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| 13:57 | <ogra> (3 on desktop)
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| 13:58 | <stgraber> CAN-o-SPAM: https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster/Specs?highlight=%28%5ELTSP-Cluster/.%2A%29
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| 13:58 | <shawnp0wers> Yeah, I was thinking more timeframe than the LTS part
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| 13:58 | ie, /me is impatient
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| 13:58 | ;)
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| 13:58 | <shawnp0wers> but if I can get ltsp-cluster working well as is, I'll be a happy camper
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| 13:58 | moving the computer into a new node got rid of the info box for me, so that was a huge step
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| 13:58 | <ogra> yeah, LTS is a bad release for the impatient
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| 13:59 | <shawnp0wers> I'll just hold out for the Maniacal Monkey release
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| 13:59 | ;)
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| 14:00 | <ogra> yeah
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| 14:00 | * shawnp0wers hopes that's the release name... | |
| 14:00 | <ogra> that will be a crazy one
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| 14:00 | <shawnp0wers> lol
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| 14:00 | <ogra> all tech that was held back in lucid will enter in one go
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| 14:00 | i bet it wont be usable until mid-release-cycle :)
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| 14:01 | <shawnp0wers> stgraber: about one out of every 3-4 times, my thin client hangs on logging into an appserver...
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| 14:02 | the only message is on the appserver I get ltsp-cluster-accountmanager: killing user spowers
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| 14:02 | and the thin client hangs with a spinning little circle, *almost* logged in...
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| 14:02 | sadly, it's not every time
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| 14:02 | or every time that server gets handed off the client
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| 14:02 | just every "few" times
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| 14:02 | thoughts?
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| 14:04 | hmm... now twice in a row, handed to two different app servers
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| 14:04 | * shawnp0wers scratches his head | |
| 14:04 | <stgraber> shawnp0wers: in /etc/pam.d/common-session do you have : sessionoptionalpam_ck_connector.so nox11 ?
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| 14:05 | <shawnp0wers> stgraber: probably not
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| 14:05 | <stgraber> the accountmanager contacts consolekit to get the session list so your session needs to be registered with CK
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| 14:05 | <shawnp0wers> on each appserver, or cluster_server?
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| 14:05 | <stgraber> it's the default on Ubuntu but may be overwriten by some custom configuration (LDAP or similar)
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| 14:05 | on the appservs
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| 14:05 | <shawnp0wers> I do have that, yes
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| 14:06 | and it works *most* of the time
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| 14:06 | I'm not sure what the secret difference is...
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| 14:06 | <stgraber> you may want to check your .xsession-errors just after a failed login, it may give you some useful information
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| 14:07 | <shawnp0wers> for the user in question, in their ~ ?
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| 14:07 | <stgraber> yep
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| 14:08 | <shawnp0wers> stgraber: http://paste.ubuntu.com/337527/
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| 14:08 | the 10.10.222.167 is the thin client in question
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| 14:09 | I may not have pasted enough...
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| 14:13 | stgraber: subsequent login works fine... I'll keep trying to figure out a pattern, but I'm stumped
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| 14:27 | <vmlintu> stgraber: do you have anything to setup the user desktop in addition to configuring the tc settings?
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| 15:12 | <stgraber> vmlintu: not exactly, we use XDG/desktop-profile and some configuration management software like puppet at Revolution Linux to push configuration to all of our servers
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| 15:13 | <johnny> stgraber, you should contract out to make more apps support xdg :)
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| 15:13 | especially ~/.cache..
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| 15:13 | hopefully evo in gnome 2.30 will support it
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| 15:13 | for example
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> stgraber: could I add some functionality to iTalc? E.g. a "bookmarks" menu with some common commands to execute to the clients?
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| 15:14 | Upstream's not interested, at least until 2.0...
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| 15:45 | <sbalneav> ogra: ping
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| 15:57 | <ehrenpr> does anyone know why, i can install packages on my edubuntu server using apt-get install, but cant seem to connect to repositories from the chroot? I have ip forwarding set up and I can connect to the internet using localapp firefox.
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| 15:58 | <sbalneav> shouldn't need ip forwarding to do anything in the chroot.
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| 15:58 | just on the server, do:
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| 15:58 | chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 15:59 | <sbalneav> is the sources.list in the chroot the same as in the server?
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| 15:59 | or do you only have cdrom lines in there (i.e. you created the chroot off of a cdrom)
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> Also check /etc/resolv.conf on the chroot
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| 16:01 | <sbalneav> yep, that too.
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| 16:01 | <ehrenpr> this is what is happening. I type sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386, Then type apt-get install vlc, then it times out connecting to the repositories. When I try the same command without it on the server it connects fine.
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| 16:01 | <sbalneav> probably the resolv.conf in the chroot.
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| 16:02 | <ehrenpr> yes i did this "sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list"
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: try this on the server, before running "chroot": sudo cp /etc/resolv.conf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf
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| 16:02 | <sbalneav> yeah, that's good. Do the same for /etc/resolv.conf
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| 16:02 | doh
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| 16:02 | alkisg types faster
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> ...been working as a typist on my younger days ;)
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| 16:04 | <ehrenpr> good to go now.. Thanks
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| 16:07 | ok, I have another question. I cant seem to set up LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT. When I add that under my client mac address with LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD it counts down but doesnt connect?
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| 16:08 | If i use LDM_AUTOLOGIN = it gives me a blank screen.
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| 16:09 | If i use LDM_AUTOLOGIN = True i mean.
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| 19:31 | <ehrenpr> can anyone tell me how to automount a samba share on my thin clients at boot?
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| 21:00 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 21:01 | ehrenpr: Why would you want to mount a samba share on the thin clients?
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| 21:02 | <ehrenpr> I have a windows machine that I use as a fileserver
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| 21:03 | i have tried editing /etc/fstab but am having no success.
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| 21:04 | <sbalneav> So you need access to this on the thin clients... why? For localapps? If so, then mount it on the server, and use the sshfs mechanism to access them on the thin client.
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| 21:08 | <ehrenpr> Its my default location for my students to share thair work. My setup is I have multiple users who access the machines but they loggin by thecomputer name. The then need a coommon shared location to access their work.
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| 21:11 | <sbalneav> ok, but why on the thin clients? Unless you're doing localapps and need them to access the share, just mount it once on the server.
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| 21:13 | <ehrenpr> are the clients only limeted to read write from their home folder?
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| 21:14 | <sbalneav> No, they can read/write outside, I think we have an extramounts option.
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| 21:15 | <ehrenpr> extramounts?
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| 21:17 | <sbalneav> Not sure. I'll have to look at the code. I don't think it's been documented yet.
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| 21:18 | <ehrenpr> so, is that required for read/write outside of home?
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| 21:20 | <sbalneav> yes
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| 21:20 | Normally, it's limited to homes.
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| 23:40 | <cyberorg> ehrenpr, hi, this is usually the time from when to catch me online
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| 23:44 | <ehrenpr> hi, ive heard alot of great things about you. Unfortunatly I have decided to switch from opensuse back to edubuntu.
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| 23:45 | I reaaly likeed it, but found a couple of things that got me hung up.
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| 23:47 | <cyberorg> ehrenpr, np, was away last week having fun at foss.in :)
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| 23:47 | http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/12/08/opensuse-edu-li-f-e-at-foss-in/
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| 23:49 | <ehrenpr> thanks for responing anyway. I think in the future. I might decide to go back. but its been awile since I have had my lab running in my room and needed something up quick.
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| 23:53 | <cyberorg> ok, what were the issues that you ran into? may be we can improve docs to take care of those
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| 23:57 | <ehrenpr> mostly issues with localapps, and my overstrained processor. I goy a lot of help from Jigish Gohil, he was great!! I tell you about the rest another time. as it is I am awake way to late.
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| 23:58 | * cyberorg is Jigish Gohil | |
| 23:58 | <ehrenpr> Well then I am ehren. the guy who has been emailing you all week.
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| 23:59 | <cyberorg> we got most information here http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps let me know what we can improve there :)
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| 23:59 | <ehrenpr> ok. thanks again.
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