IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 5 March 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:19 | <vagrantc> planning on tagging ltsp 5.3.4 tonight or tomorrow...
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| 03:24 | <stgraber> vagrantc: sounds good, I was planning to tag at some point next week anyway, so I'll just use that one then
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| 03:26 | <vagrantc> in fact, i think i'll tag it right now...
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| 03:27 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: whohoo! (for epoptes)
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| 03:28 | <stgraber> vagrantc: ok. I had a quick look at trunk and it looks like I'll be able to upload 5.3.4 to Ubuntu with any need for freeze exception (looks like bugfix only to me)
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| 03:41 | <vagrantc> stgraber: ubuntu's currently at 5.3.2?
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| 07:18 | <alkisg> What does ssh-hostchecker do? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1401
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| 07:24 | Ah, it strips the IP/hostname part of ssh_known_hosts, allowing the server IP to be changed without the clients being unable to log in?
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| 07:28 | But isn't the ltsp server always known as "server" by the clients anyway?
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| 07:29 | <muppis> Does it then remove IP from file so ssh doesn't complain about name / IP mismatch?
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| 07:30 | <alkisg> If so, why would we bother putting the IP in that file, only to remove it afterwards?
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| 07:30 | <muppis> ssh does it anyway.
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| 07:31 | <alkisg> But we're using ltsp-update-sshkeys for that, right?
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| 07:31 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 07:32 | I don't have possibility check that right now, I'm using d-i ssh.
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| 07:32 | <alkisg> In ltsp-update-sshkeys: IPS=$(/sbin/ip -o -f inet addr show | sed -e 's,.* \(.*\)/.*,\1,' | grep -v '^127')
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| 07:33 | I think that we can just remove support for IPs in ltsp-update-sshkeys then...
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| 07:33 | <muppis> You can try it.
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> I can't reproduce the "problem" though... e.g. I have 10.160.31.10 in my ltsp chroot, I then change my server IP to 192.168.0.1, and I'm still able to ssh to the server without getting a prompt
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| 07:38 | I only get a warning about "added 192.168.0.1 to known_hosts"
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| 07:40 | <muppis> I usually get mismatch warning when key has changed and only IP or name removed from known_hosts
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> Aaah I wonder if the actual problem behind all this is that LDM uses the server IP address instead of the name "server".
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| 07:41 | <muppis> Can be.
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> Yup I think that's it. If, in /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts, I have "server" and "10.160.31.10",
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| 07:44 | and I change my server IP to "192.168.0.1",
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| 07:45 | then I can run `ssh alkisg@server` by getting only a warning,
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| 07:45 | but `ssh alkisg@192.168.0.1` needs confirmation
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| 07:46 | That that warning would also explain why some times the first login try fails from ldm, while the next ones succeed
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| 07:48 | <muppis> SOunds reasonable.
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| 07:49 | * alkisg tries with LDM_SERVER=server in lts.conf... | |
| 07:51 | <alkisg> ...works fine
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| 07:53 | !ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 07:53 | <ltsp`> alkisg: ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
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| 07:53 | <alkisg> So instead of that, we could just instruct people to put LDM_SERVER=server in their lts.conf...
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| 07:54 | ...until we change that to be the default
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| 07:54 | <muppis> Instead of ltsp-update-image ?
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> Instead of updating their ssh keys when their IP changes
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| 07:55 | <muppis> Ah. Sure, that can be easier.
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| 07:57 | This is really neat.. I'm using my phone as ap and gw to install Ubuntu from netboot.
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| 08:01 | <alkisg> Haha sounds fun :) At some hotel we used a phone to get 3G internet, then a usb cable to send it to a laptop, then the laptop's wifi card to secretly share it with others via the hotel's per-mac-locked wifi network. All that just because we didn't have a switch :D
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| 08:02 | <muppis> :D
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| 08:03 | I'm sure if that phone can share it by self to multiple clients, but it shows up as regular ap, not as ad-hoc.
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| 08:04 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, Adroid has an app to share the phone's 3G via wireless, with multiple clients (access point mode) :-)
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: that came later though :)
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| 08:04 | In 2.2 if I remember well
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| 08:05 | <Hyperbyte> I've used it quite a few times now already... most impressive application was an audio broadcast connection, when we were broadcasting some sports match live from a sports park in Capelle, streamed audio to our studio, and then their internet gave our completely
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| 08:05 | <muppis> Hyperbyte, that what I'm now using with my SGS II.
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| 08:05 | <Hyperbyte> So I put my phone in access point mode and we streamed high quality audio to our studio via 3G. :-)
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| 08:05 | <muppis> Got good 3G. :)
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| 08:06 | <Hyperbyte> muppis, are you sure you're not gonna get a huge bill for data traffic? :)
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> OK I think it's time to start my new ltsp-server package variant, which will use dnsmasq in proxydhcp mode by default (and as dns+tftp server), and will try to automatically configuring everything. Any proposed names? ltsp-server-dnsmasq?
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| 08:06 | It'll be accompanied by an ltsp-client package variant, which will have LDM_DIRECTX=true by default, and some other minor changes
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| 08:07 | <muppis> Hyperbyte, I'm sure. It's from work.
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| 08:07 | <Hyperbyte> :-D
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| 08:07 | alkisg, what's it for?
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: in many cases (greek schools included), single nic installations are used with routers as the dhcp servers
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| 08:08 | So that package will completely automate their setup
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| 08:08 | <muppis> Well, I got it that at home.
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> It'll allow for dual nic installations too of course
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| 08:09 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, then I'd call it something like 'ltsp-singlenic' or whatever. 'dnsmasq' means nothing to me.
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> !proxy-dhcp
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| 08:09 | <ltsp`> alkisg: proxy-dhcp: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> dnsmasq supports proxydhcp, while dhcp3-server doesn't
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| 08:09 | <Hyperbyte> Well, yeah, I know what it is - I'm just saying....
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| 08:09 | Question.
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> So the main difference is that this package will be using dnsmasq
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| 08:10 | And since it will be using it for proxydhcp (or normal dhcp), it may as well use it for dns + tftp
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| 08:10 | <Hyperbyte> Why do you create a seperate package, rather than including some setup script with LTSP by default which makes all the configuration changes?
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| 08:10 | <alkisg> There are 2 packages now: ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone
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| 08:10 | The -standalone variant uses dhcp3 and tftpd-hpa
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| 08:10 | <muppis> It's mostly special cases where dnsmasq is needed.
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| 08:10 | <alkisg> That new variant will use dnsmasq
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| 08:11 | <Hyperbyte> Ah... so ltsp-server is for networks where there's already a DHCP server?
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> I think that in the future we should be using dnsmasq in all default ltsp installations, but it's too early to convince people to switch, so for now a separate package will be needed
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| 08:11 | Yes, ltsp-server requires an appropriately configured external dhcp server
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| 08:11 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, why isn't ltsp-server-standalone a script that just sets the configuration options?
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| 08:11 | Why a seperate package?
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> Because ltsp-server-standalone recommends dhcp3 and tftpd-hpa
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| 08:12 | While that new package will recommend dnsmasq instead
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| 08:12 | It's the way debian and ubuntu handle package dependencies
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| 08:12 | <Hyperbyte> Hm
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> We don't have an other option to tell the user to install dnsmasq instead of dhcp3 + tftpd-hpa
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| 08:13 | <Hyperbyte> Wouldn't it make more sense then to create ltsp-config packages? ltsp-config-standalone, which runs a config script that configures ltsp-server the way you want it, and recommends the two packages
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| 08:13 | <muppis> alkisg,are those just recommends or real depencies?
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| 08:13 | <Hyperbyte> And ltsp-config-singlenic?
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| 08:13 | Just thinking out loud here. :)
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| 08:14 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: you're just using a different name, the ltsp-server-dnsmasq package just does what you say
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| 08:14 | Also, dnsmasq supports 2 nic installations too
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| 08:14 | So it's not _only_ for single nics, it just covers the proxy mode that dhcp3 doesn't
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| 08:14 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, ah
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| 08:15 | <alkisg> muppis: they're recommendations, yes, but it's difficult for the user to do all the configuration manually
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| 08:16 | <muppis> I know.
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| 08:16 | <Hyperbyte> ltsp-server-dhcpproxy
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| 08:16 | Off to work. :P
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| 08:16 | <alkisg> But it's not _only_ for proxy too :D
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| 08:16 | bb!
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| 08:27 | So, the ltsp-server-dnsmasq package will also have the following different defaults from upstream ltsp:
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| 08:27 | LDM_DIRECTX=True, X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 for thin clients, DNS_SERVER="$SERVER 8.8.8.8 208.67.222.222", LDM_SERVER="server" for allowing server IP changes, USE_LOCAL_SWAP=True, X_NUMLOCK=True only for desktops and not for laptops.
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| 08:27 | Anything else needed?
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| 08:28 | <muppis> Is 208.67 OpenDNS?
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| 08:28 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 08:28 | Mainly the ltsp server will be used as a dns server, the others are just fallbacks
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| 08:29 | Ah, and I think I'll include a graphical pxemenu in the package too, like this: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1672;image
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| 08:31 | <muppis> http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2828.0;attach=1672;image
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| 08:32 | My terminal is full of crap.
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> Hmmm and I'd better put the new tools for exporting ltsp images from virtualbox .vdi disks there as well. So I'm not sure that -dnsmasq is an appropriate name anymore...
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| 08:34 | <muppis> -extended?
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> Maybe... or that -ng (new generation) which I think is frequently used...
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| 08:35 | <muppis> Or next generation.
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| 08:35 | -ng is better.
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| 08:36 | <muppis> But I need to hit the road. Things to do and I'm still here.
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| 08:37 | <alkisg> bb :)
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| 09:18 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, is X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 a big improvement?
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: it needs half the network bandwidth
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| 09:19 | So depending on your network speed, number of clients etc, yes, it should be
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| 09:19 | <Hyperbyte> Does it save CPU as well?
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> If encrypted, probably. With LDM_DIRECTX=True, I don't think it'll save much cpu
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| 09:32 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, it does actually
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| 09:32 | Just teeeested
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| 09:32 | YouTube fullscreen performs with -much- higher FPS, with X_COLOR_DEPTH="16"
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> With ldm_directx=what?
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| 09:32 | <Hyperbyte> True.
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> That's expected... what I don't know is if the colordepth plays any role in cpu usage when ldm_directx=false
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| 09:34 | <Hyperbyte> With X_COLOR_DEPTH="16" fullscreen flash video at 1920x1080 seems to work quite okay
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| 09:34 | If I leave that out, it eats so insanely much CPU that even the audio starts stuttering
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> It's half the bandwidth, so from 1.6 gbps now you "only" need 800 mbps
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| 09:34 | So for 1 client a gigabit network is enough
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| 09:35 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, but bandwith is never the issue for me, as it's running at only 2 FPS or so... it's the CPU that can't handle it.
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| 09:36 | With X_COLOR_DEPTH="16" the CPU is much more relaxed, and FPS seems more like 15
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| 10:10 | <torbjorn> how can I add the tg3 kernle module found in kmod-tg3 to the initramfs?
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| 10:10 | usin gdracut?
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| 10:12 | oh --add-drivers apparently
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| 12:41 | <wim_> Hi, I want to get cups working on FAT Clients. What is the best way to do it. I installed cups in the chroot but it did not work. Any ideas where to start? many thanks
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| 12:53 | <alkisg> wim_: it should be working, check also the CUPS_SERVER lts.conf variable depending on what you want to do
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| 12:53 | Cups should already be installed in the chroot, wasn't it?
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| 13:41 | <highvoltage> good morning
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| 13:43 | <Hyperbyte> hi-voltage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 14:06 | <wim_> alkisg: txs it is not really clear to me. should i install cups in the chroot or on the server. I also could not find a lot of info about CUPS_SERVER lts.conf
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| 14:34 | <highvoltage> hi perbyte :)
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| 14:55 | * [GuS] Hi! | |
| 14:56 | <Hyperbyte> Hi GuS :-)000000
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| 15:04 | <[GuS]> Hyperbyte: :)
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| 15:14 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, I just read on the K12Linux mailing list that someone tried to edit lts.conf via Webmin, and after that the thin clients wouldn't boot. Could it be that LTSP chokes on lts.conf with DOS \r\n, rather than Unix \n?
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| 16:01 | * LuizAngioletti salutes andyGraybeals | |
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| 16:03 | <andyGraybeals> LuizAngioletti, hi hihi
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| 16:04 | LuizAngioletti, how are things working out?
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| 16:04 | <LuizAngioletti> slowly
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| 16:04 | but on the way
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| 16:04 | <andyGraybeals> that is good.. i feel like since we last talked, i'm still working o nthe same thing, practically in the same spot.
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| 16:05 | <LuizAngioletti> =)
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| 16:55 | <wim_> Hi, I want to get cups working on FAT Clients. What is the best way to do it.
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| 16:55 | In the LTSP Server cups is working, how can I get the fatclient to use cups on the server
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| 16:55 | I also installed cups in the chroot and added in lts.conf CUPS_SERVER=192.168.2.1 (LTSP Server) but it did not work.
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| 16:55 | Any ideas where to start? many thanks
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| 16:57 | <highvoltage> wim_: I think that if you add the printers to the server and enable printer sharing, it should just work
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| 16:57 | <wim_> i tried but it did not work, I don't see the printers on the fatclient
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| 17:01 | <wim_> highvoltage: txs it worked, i tougt you ment 'Share printers connected to this system'. now I see the printers
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| 17:12 | <LuizAngioletti> highvoltage: Occam's razor does the trick most of times, right?
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| 17:12 | *most times
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| 17:20 | andyGraybeals: Have to go. Good luck with your stuff.
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| 17:20 | =)
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| 17:21 | See you later.
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: yes it's quite possible that getltscfg chokes on CRLFs... but I wonder why those K12Linux people don't file bugs in the ltsp bug tracker :)
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> Meh. Using btrfs instead of squashfs in a chroot requires 5 MB more RAM (with SCREEN_02=shell and all services deleted, from 16 MB to 21 MB).
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| 18:58 | <alkisg> Ah no the main cause for the RAM difference was that the one chroot was thin and the other fat
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| 20:23 | * vagrantc waves to alkisg | |
| 20:23 | <alkisg> Hey there!
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| 20:23 | Thanks for the release
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| 20:25 | <vagrantc> sure thing
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| 20:25 | i see you put the request in to sync with ubuntu
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> Yes I synced it an hour or so ago
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| 20:26 | * alkisg has been checking memory usage in ubuntu 12.04... doesn't look very well for low-ram clients | |
| 20:27 | <vagrantc> uh-oh.
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| 20:27 | <alkisg> I'd like to compare that with the memory usage of debian, maybe it's lighter
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| 20:28 | I'll put some more services in RM_THIN_SYSTEM_SERVICES, like network-manager, but I'm afraid that 128MB RAM will be the lowest bearable client
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| 20:28 | Ah btw stgraber, vagrantc, we still have a problem with shutdown/reboot when using nbd, because ltsp-client-core is only installed for runlevel2, no K* links. Any reason for that?
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| 20:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i finally figured out a workaround for /var/cache/apt/*.bin getting recreated at boot ... apparently apt-get clean cleans those out now too, but running apt-get update or apt-cache show ltsp-client-core or just about any apt command will recreate them.
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| 20:29 | alkisg: because it never ran in that level before?
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| 20:29 | alkisg: changing the lsb headers in it might fix that
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| 20:29 | <alkisg> But why put `dh_installinit -a --no-start -u"start 25 2 ."` instead of leaving the defaults?
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| 20:29 | At least that's what I see in debian/rules in Ubuntu
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: --no-start was to prevent it from restarting during package install.
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| 20:30 | alkisg: those rules are essentially ignored for several debian releases.
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> Ah, we don't need that anymore, we have policy-rc.d and the grep /proc/cmdline there
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: insserv completely rewrites them based on lsb headers
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> Hmm so the problem is Ubuntu-specific... stgraber?
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no, it's an issue, just where to fix it is thhe question.
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| 20:32 | alkisg: or, at least, nbd root dies badly post-5.3.1 in debina.
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> If we just remove that line in rules there, won't the default lsb headers be used?
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| 20:32 | I tried that (update-rc.d ...defaults), and it worked fine afterwards
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| 20:33 | Hey, so apt-get clean can save us 40 MB of the squashfs image, even if we use --mount-package-cache...
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| 20:34 | Another thing... that ssh-hostkeychecker... if we used LDM_SERVER=server, instead of LDM_SERVER=server-ip, wouldn't that be redudant?
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| 20:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the defaults will be used, which will not default to lsb headers, except that it will, unless they're not using insserv. hah.
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| 20:35 | <alkisg> With LDM_SERVER=server, the hostname is checked, so the server can change its ip without giving login problems to the clients
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| 20:36 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that assumes you're connecting to "server"
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| 20:36 | alkisg: with multiple application servers, that's not the case.
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| 20:36 | <alkisg> Indeed, but one can use dns names there too
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| 20:36 | <vagrantc> which, i guess, i do.
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| 20:36 | i don't want to get too distracted by lots of redesign today, though
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| 20:39 | <alkisg> (10:35:12 μμ) vagrantc: alkisg: the defaults will be used, which will not default to lsb headers ==> not a problem in ubuntu though, the defaults are fine for our case
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| 20:39 | And since insserv reads the lsb headers on debian, ...we just need to do it?
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| 20:40 | <vagrantc> not sure what the exactly correct thing to do is...
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| 20:41 | alkisg: basically, we need to set the lsb headers appropriately, in any case.
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| 20:41 | for debian
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| 20:41 | <alkisg> I think they're fine as they are now
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| 20:41 | <vagrantc> and then ideally, we match the lsb headers with the dh_install arguments.
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| 20:41 | otherwise we get obnoxious lintian warnings... although it's been a while since i've had that problem.
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> Another unrelated thing... I tried btrfs + copyonwrite nbd, our init-bottom code is fine, I automatically didn't get a tmpfs/aufs overlay.
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| 20:45 | <vagrantc> nice!
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| 20:56 | <highvoltage> !seen asmok
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| 20:56 | <ltsp`> highvoltage: asmok was last seen in #ltsp 3 days, 11 hours, 25 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <asmok> I found Gentoo howtos very usefull: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Category:OpenSSH
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| 21:20 | <highvoltage> stgraber: would you have some time tonight (or tomorrow night (or soon(ish))) to help me with the ltsp-cluster-lbagent packaging mess? I tried to fix it last week but there seems to be a few good options and I'd like your input. I think it might be a good idea to get rid of cdbs too and make it pure dh, but I'd like to show you a few things and get your input first
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| 21:22 | <stgraber> highvoltage: sure, I should have some time tonight
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| 21:22 | <highvoltage> great
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| 21:23 | <stgraber> alkisg: Ubuntu doesn't use insserv and is trying to get rid of it
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| 21:23 | alkisg: so the right runlevels should be set in the packaging
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| 21:23 | alkisg: or we could ship an upstart job, whatever is easiest
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| 21:23 | <alkisg> stgraber: the problem is debian/rules
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| 21:24 | We manually call dh_installinit there with S 2 only
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| 21:24 | dh_installinit -a --no-start -u"start 25 2 ."
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| 21:24 | If we change that to "defaults", I think it'll be fine
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| 21:25 | I.e. dh_installinit -a --no-start
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| 21:25 | <stgraber> defaults will use 2345 and 016
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| 21:25 | <alkisg> Hmm we only want 06
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| 21:25 | <stgraber> alkisg: can you confirm it works?
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| 21:26 | alkisg: update-rc.d -f ltsp-client-core remove
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| 21:26 | <alkisg> I tried the defaults and they worked,
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| 21:26 | <stgraber> alkisg: update-rc.d -f ltsp-client-core defaults
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| 21:26 | <alkisg> but I didn't try switching to single runlevel
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| 21:26 | (to see if that could kill the nbd-client connection)
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| 21:26 | OK let me try it...
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| 21:27 | <stgraber> it probably would
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| 21:27 | though single on LTSP seems a bit silly
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| 21:27 | <alkisg> Ah no it wouldn't, the nbd-disconnect script checks for runlevel 06
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| 21:27 | so it should be fine
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| 21:28 | <stgraber> alkisg: would start on 2 and stop on 0 and 6 work?
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| 21:28 | <alkisg> stgraber: I believe so, but why omit the others?
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| 21:28 | <stgraber> so we only define what we actually know to work :)
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| 21:29 | <alkisg> Isn't 2-5 the same in debian/ubuntu?
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| 21:29 | <stgraber> Ubuntu doesn't really support any other runlevel and I don't think we want to see how badly it breaks if people start switching to some runlevels, then back to 2
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| 21:29 | <alkisg> I haven't seen any sysv script that descriminates between them...
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| 21:29 | <stgraber> and have ltsp-client-core executed twice
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| 21:31 | <alkisg> I think that if someone tried runlevel=3, he should still get ltsp-client-core running
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| 21:31 | As it's supposed to be the same with runlevel=2
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| 21:31 | <alkisg> (without going through runlevel=2 first, but directly to 3)
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| 21:32 | <stgraber> I'm actually pretty tempted to just port ltsp-client-core to upstart, it'd be much shorted, much cleaner and should give us a slightly faster boot
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| 21:32 | I'll have a look at that once I'm done with my current meeting
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| 21:32 | <vagrantc> ltsp-client-core mainly handles the screen sessions?
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| 21:33 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 21:33 | I think I'd prefer less delta from debian, to some msec faster booting...
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| 21:33 | <stgraber> yeah, it's basically running start_screen_sessions, start_sound, configure_sound_volume
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| 21:34 | alkisg: don't worry, we're trying to push upstart to Debian ;)
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| 21:34 | <alkisg> :)
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| 21:34 | <stgraber> which seems more likely to be considered than systemd at least ;)
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| 21:34 | <alkisg> btw, any reason for us not to delete ltsp-setup?
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| 21:35 | <alkisg> I don't think anyone uses it at all now...
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| 21:35 | <stgraber> I don't think so, if both Ubuntu and Debian don't ship it, it's probably not used anymore
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| 21:35 | not sure about Gentoo/Fedora, are they using it?
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| 21:35 | <alkisg> Gentoo doesn't, and I _think_ fedora doesn't use either
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we'd need to get the LSB headers updated to include Default-Stop to get it to do what you want on debian
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| 21:36 | sound_volume is in udev now
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| 21:37 | <Hyperbyte> I'm quite certain Fedora doesn't use ltsp-setup.
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| 21:37 | <alkisg> vagrantc: OK, so, Default Start 2 3 4 5, and Default Stop 0 6 ?
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| 21:37 | <Hyperbyte> stgraber, too bad... systemd is a beautiful thing.
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| 21:38 | <alkisg> vagrantc: Indeed, we need to remove it from ltsp-client-core then
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| 21:38 | <Hyperbyte> Fedora completely switched to systemd, and I absolutely love it.
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| 21:38 | <alkisg> And I think start_sound belongs in the ldm screen script
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| 21:38 | <Hyperbyte> Granted it took a while, definitely wasn't 'love at first sight'.
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sound support is used in non-ldm LTSP environments.
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| 21:39 | <alkisg> vagrantc: pulseaudio? how?
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| 21:39 | <stgraber> alkisg: can't xfreerdp use pulseaudio?
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> stgraber: I think people turn it off deliberately to have rdesktop/xfreerdp use alsa
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> i even used to have a headless thin client that played music
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> vagrantc: start_sound mainly sets up pulseaudio for ldm sessions, right?
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> you booted it, it started playing music fromm a randomized playlist
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> So how would people use it without ldm?
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| 21:41 | Alsa is there, no need to "start" it...
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| 21:41 | <stgraber> alkisg: it sets up pulseaudio as a system wide daemon
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| 21:41 | <vagrantc> i haven't looked deeply into it.
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| 21:41 | <stgraber> alkisg: anything running locally on the thin client can use it
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| 21:42 | <alkisg> stgraber: normally, pulseaudio is started inside user sessions
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| 21:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm testing with default stop added and using the installinit defaults
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| 21:42 | <alkisg> So, for kiosk setups etc it's best to leave it to the defaults
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| 21:43 | Now, for some things running as root, like e.g. a headless media player like vagrantc says, alsa should be more than enough...
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| 21:43 | And it lags less with rdesktop/xfreerdp, and saves ram too
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| 21:43 | <stgraber> the session should be able to detect and use the system wide puleaudio, at least it did last I check
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| 21:44 | if PULSE_SERVER=127.0.0.1 is in the environment that usually prevents another pulseaudio from starting
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| 21:44 | <alkisg> I think Gadi was planning to move it to the user session anyway, because running it system-wide is not recommented
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: regarding dh_installinit, i've only got the ltsp-client-setup using non-default values in debian/rules.
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| 21:45 | alkisg: and i'm going to just remove ltsp-client-setup.
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| 21:45 | <alkisg> Ah, so it's an Ubuntu-only problem
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| 21:45 | vagrantc: ls -l /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc*/*ltsp*
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| 21:45 | <stgraber> alkisg: moving to the user session won't work with multiple ldm sessions opened as you can't listen to the same port multiple times
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| 21:45 | alkisg: that's why it's been made system wide to start with
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| 21:46 | so you can have multiple ldm session, rdesktop sessions, ... all using the same daemon on the same port
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| 21:46 | <alkisg> I think the main problem was that normally there wasn't a local user, to start pulseaudio in its "session"
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| 21:47 | The port could be configured according to the display number etc
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| 21:47 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that lists ltsp-cleint-core in runlevels 2-5 and ltsp-client-setup as starting in S
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| 21:47 | <alkisg> vagrantc: do you also have K* links?
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| 21:48 | <vagrantc> alkisg: nope, all S links.
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| 21:48 | alkisg: will test with my upcoming patches.
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| 21:48 | <alkisg> So Default Stop == empty should become 0 6...
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| 21:49 | * vagrantc just found out yesterday that ubuntu only has the most recent 10 changes in the installed /usr/share/doc/*/changelog.debian.gz ... interesting. | |
| 21:49 | <stgraber> vagrantc: yep, space saving :)
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| 21:50 | <vagrantc> as a developer, it would drive me crazy, but i can see the logic of it.
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| 21:50 | <stgraber> vagrantc: "apt-get changelog ltsp-server" will give you the whole changelog
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| 21:50 | <vagrantc> but only while online
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| 21:50 | <stgraber> indeed
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| 21:51 | <vagrantc> i like it in general, but i'd still like to have a way to install the whole changelog, but that's wildly off-topic here :)
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| 21:51 | does it install full upstream changelogs?
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| 21:51 | <alkisg> A more on-topic topic would be how to handle policy-rc.d :D
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| 21:53 | <vagrantc> policy-rc.d is considered to be a local admin tool, so it's all sorts of murky when you talk about doing it as a package.
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| 21:54 | <alkisg> We could do it as part of ltsp-chroot, as stgraber proposed then
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| 21:54 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I believe only the Debian changelog is stripped yes
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> doing policy-rc.d from ltsp-chroot makes some sense ... as long as we did it well.
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| 21:56 | unfortunately doesn't handle people using it with plain chroot, but that isn't handled all that well anyways.
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| 21:57 | <alkisg> Should we do start-stop-daemon from ltsp-chroot too?
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| 21:58 | stgraber: when is the last date for small ltsp patches to hope to make it for precise?
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| 21:58 | <vagrantc> now i need all sorts of additional lintian overrides with these new stop runlevels ... i think it's appropriate to override, at least.
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| 21:58 | <stgraber> alkisg: I'm not planning on doing much LTSP updates in April, so try and get everything done in March :)
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| 21:59 | <alkisg> Should suffice, thanks
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| 22:08 | <vagrantc> i'm *really* confused now. nothing mentions ltsp-client-setup in my packaging, but it's failing to install because of it. :(
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| 22:09 | aha. ltsp-client-core references it
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| 22:09 | <stgraber> I was just about to paste you that :)
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| 22:09 | ./client/initscripts/ltsp-core:# Required-Start: ltsp-client-setup $remote_fs $network $syslog
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| 22:10 | which Ubuntu happily ignores ;)
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> i actually tested RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES=ltsp-client-setup to quick-and-dirty test how it would work without it the other day
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| 22:12 | * stgraber commits a "fix" dropping any remaining reference to usplash | |
| 22:13 | <stgraber> that'll make client-core a bit shorter
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| 22:13 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 22:14 | <stgraber> pushed
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> with this upload of ltsp, my biggest fear is creating the changelog ... once i'm over that ... wheee.
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| 22:15 | <stgraber> also updated the lsb head of -core
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| 22:15 | that should fix it for vagrantc
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i was testing it first, but ok :)
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| 22:15 | <stgraber> I dropped the reference to -setup, added -setup as a provide and made it stop on 06
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> on 0 6 ?
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| 22:15 | <stgraber> right
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| 22:16 | <vagrantc> stgraber: at which point, just kill off ltsp-setup
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| 22:16 | <stgraber> I also dropped the reference to hal which everyone started killing a while ago and isn't a dependency anymore
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| 22:17 | vagrantc: removed and pushed
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| 22:19 | <vagrantc> haven't heard much about the apt-get clean bug, other than it fixes caches where the *.bin are corrupted.
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| 22:19 | so i may need to implement a workaround.
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| 22:25 | alkisg: NBD still hangs after ltsp-client-core is called in runlevel 6...
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| 22:25 | * alkisg reads the logs... | |
| 22:26 | <vagrantc> rebooting/shutting down was workingg fine in 5.3.1 ... although it would leave dead nbd-server processes
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| 22:27 | if only there was a way to say to the nbd-server to please start the timeout process, but continue to work indefinitely.
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| 22:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc: you've packaged nbd-disconnect, right?
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| 22:27 | What does ` grep KILLALL /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/nbd-client` give you?
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| 22:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: should be in ltsp-client-core?
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| 22:28 | <alkisg> if [ -x /usr/share/ltsp/nbd-disconnect ]; then
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| 22:28 | /usr/share/ltsp/nbd-disconnect &
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| 22:28 | fi
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| 22:29 | ltsp-client-core calls nbd-disconnect if it's there, which does the actual job
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| 22:29 | <vagrantc> well, that's the story.
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| 22:29 | not packaged.
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| 22:29 | <alkisg> stgraber: we need that too ^
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| 22:32 | In my tests it always managed to shutdown/reboot without leaving connections open, even if it sometimes showed nbd read errors for a few msecs. If it doesn't work ok with insserv, we can remove the "&" at the end if the nbd-disconnect call, and use a smaller delay, e.g. 2 secs instead of 5.
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| 22:32 | <vagrantc> will actually test it this time :)
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| 22:33 | i really need to update NEWS.Debian and/or README.Debian
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| 22:34 | to mention the big switch to writeable /
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| 22:37 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yay. seems to work
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| 22:37 | alkisg: although it sends my qemu-kvm instance into a perpetual reboot cycle :(
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| 22:37 | <alkisg> Ouch
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| 22:39 | Is that a problem with qemu-kvm and the sysrq keys?
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| 22:39 | <vagrantc> might be
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| 22:39 | shutdown works great
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| 22:39 | i'm hoping that's just a bug in qemu-kvm...
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| 22:40 | but i sure use that feature a lot... although with NFS root mostly :)
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| 22:40 | alkisg: so nbd-disconnect works because it's using built-in code already in ram? no calls to outside binaries?
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| 22:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yes, hopefully
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 22:41 | <alkisg> It only does an "echo" after the disconnection, which is supposedly embedded in sh, or cached in ram just above
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> alkisg: worst case we could re-write it in C or something...
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| 22:42 | <alkisg> Nah, we should just send a patch to wouter
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> that's actually the right thing to do, yes.
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| 22:42 | <alkisg> About a special nbd-client signal which requests a disconnect *after* 10 seconds :D
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: some sort of way to say : disconnect if you don't hear from us after X time
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| 22:42 | <alkisg> Right
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| 22:43 | stgraber: about r2119, log_action_end_msg was previously log_end_msg, and now it's ...log_action_end_msg. It's a small change, but I don't think it matters, just mentioning it...
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| 22:47 | * vagrantc is really happy about the improvements to initramfs hooks and the resulting simplification | |
| 22:47 | <vagrantc> init-ltsp.d is really good to.
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| 22:47 | <alkisg> Hehe, I hope you'll say the same next year with the new configuration system :D
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| 22:48 | ...which we'll design at BTS
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| 22:55 | <alkisg> Goodnight guys
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| 23:06 | <vagrantc> although, now i've got to figure out how to purge ltsp-client-setup...
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| 23:06 | or just ship a no-op ltsp-client-setup
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