IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 March 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:01 | <johnny> ok.. here's another common use case :)
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| 00:02 | amd64 server, x86 clients
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| 00:02 | relying on the server's portage config isn't useful for me atm
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| 00:02 | either
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| 00:04 | even if i was x86
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| 00:05 | DEBUG: Loading plugins in MODE=after-install:
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| 00:06 | so.. that'll tell you where i'm at now :)
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| 00:15 | <dberkholz> johnny: that's what PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT is for
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| 00:17 | <johnny> and the advantage over just chroot emerge is?
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| 00:18 | <dberkholz> johnny: you don't need portage installed on the clients
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| 00:18 | johnny: plus chroots suck imho
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| 00:18 | being able to do stuff from outside the chroot is much more powerful
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| 00:19 | <johnny> hmm..ok.. guess gotta reevaluate using quickstart then :(
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| 00:20 | <dberkholz> nah
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| 00:20 | <johnny> it already installs portage
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| 00:20 | <dberkholz> i'm just saying that as a general guideline
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| 00:20 | familar with the --unmerge option? =P
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| 00:21 | <johnny> sure
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| 00:21 | and the tree?
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| 00:22 | <dberkholz> drop portage from the client at the same time you're cleaning out build deps
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| 00:22 | bind mount, if quickstart needs to run emerge inside the chroot
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| 00:22 | <johnny> aha.. good idea..
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| 00:22 | at least the tree is much smaller these days..
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| 02:08 | <johnny> dberkholz, emerge --update --world is not a good option atm, due totally out of date stage tarball
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| 02:08 | issues with com_err and ss
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| 03:25 | <clemyeats> Hi, is it possible to make an ltsp client image for a full X11 working environment? (I mean, the client would simply get the image from the server, and from there on run without the server).
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| 03:48 | <daduke> clemyeats: err wouldn't a plain vanilla tftp/nfs boot do the trick? What do you need LTSP for in this case?
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| 03:48 | <clemyeats> daduke: I'm not sure I do..
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| 03:48 | <daduke> clemyeats: well I don't think you do ;)
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| 03:48 | <clemyeats> daduke: ideally I'd like to use a liveCD ISO and have it served by the server to the network clients.
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| 03:50 | <daduke> clemyeats: I've never tried it, but you should be able to put the contents of said ISO on an NFS server and then tftp boot its kernel. google for knoppix netboot or something perhaps?
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| 03:51 | <clemyeats> daduke: I will. Thanks a lot for this. Things are a bit clearer for me now. Thanks.
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| 03:51 | <daduke> clemyeats: you're welcome.
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| 03:51 | <chupa> oops, i got lost
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| 03:55 | <tarzeau> HELP!
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| 03:57 | <daduke> tarzeau: was?
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| 04:59 | <ogra_cmpc> clemyeats, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDShareThisCD
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| 05:00 | <clemyeats> ogra_cmpc: perfect, thanks a lot for this!
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| 05:06 | <cyberorg> ogra_cmpc, was local hard disk auto mount changed after this? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=432024
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| 05:26 | <ogra_cmpc> cyberorg, sisne loocal HD mounting was never tested i cant tell you if it changed :)
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| 05:26 | *since local
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| 05:27 | the code did change to prevent them completely though
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| 05:46 | <TiagoAT> Alguém que possa responder?
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| 06:50 | <vlt> Hi, I received a spam mail today: "My name is lilian. I am a nice young lady ... Because I am tired of loneliness ... and saw your profile at (http://www.ltsp.org) and accepted you believing we match each other for love and friendship. ..."
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| 06:51 | lilian? Are you here?
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| 06:51 | ;)
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| 06:54 | <ogra_cmpc> haha
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| 07:38 | <cyberorg> ogra_cmpc, prevent it? now i want to enable it :(
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| 07:39 | <ogra_cmpc> did you find out what hogs the devices ?
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| 07:39 | (doesnt help much to poke on ltspfs if you didnt solve the general prob first)
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| 07:39 | <cyberorg> ogra, nope, since usb plugging works, and the device nodes are created, udev is working, i removed all the other storage rules, still no go
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| 07:40 | <ogra_cmpc> well, get that sorted first then we can look at ltspfs
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| 07:41 | <cyberorg> ogra_cmpc, get sorted what? devices are created, udev works, onlything that does mounting is 88-ltsp.rules, where else do i look?
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| 07:42 | <ogra_cmpc> so you dont have any /sdv/sda anymore now ?
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| 07:42 | */dev/sda
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| 07:43 | <cyberorg> ogra, i have /dev/sd*
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| 07:43 | <ogra_cmpc> /dev/sda, the local disk is what i'm talking about
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| 07:43 | <cyberorg> ogra_cmpc, yes they are there
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| 07:43 | <ogra_cmpc> make sure udev doesnt hog (create them)
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| 07:43 | than we can look at adding them to the ltspfs rules
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| 07:44 | but first you must make sure they are not claimed already
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| 07:44 | <cyberorg> ogra_cmpc, they are not claimed, i made sure of that, removed all rules about storage except ltsp.rules
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| 07:45 | <ogra_cmpc> if they are not claimed they wont exist
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| 07:45 | which they apparently do
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| 07:45 | <cyberorg> ogra_cmpc, would they be created and lts rule ignores them because they are local disks?
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| 07:45 | <ogra_cmpc> no
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| 07:45 | <cyberorg> the bug i posted wanted something like that enforced
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| 07:46 | <ogra_cmpc> if they are created they are owned by soemthing already
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| 07:46 | <cyberorg> http://bugs.skolelinux.no/show_bug.cgi?id=1209
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| 07:46 | <ogra_cmpc> right, thats the current state
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| 07:46 | which means if you really have cleaned everything, firing the ltspfs rule wouldnt create them
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| 07:47 | if they *exist at all* you need to get that sorted first
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| 07:47 | <cyberorg> ogra_cmpc, ok, so ltsp rules wont create it at all, right, i'll dig deeper
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| 07:48 | <ogra_cmpc> with the autoremove=1 it wont touch and non removable devices
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| 07:48 | s/and/any/
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| 07:49 | <cyberorg> where is that configured?
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| 07:50 | <ogra_cmpc> in the rules file yo pointed to several times and which ios quoted in the bug
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| 07:52 | <cyberorg> ogra, grep autoremove * -R in all ltsp*-trunk ldm-trunk did not return anything
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| 07:58 | <ogra_cmpc> ltspfs
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| 07:58 | ihttp://bugs.skolelinux.no/show_bug.cgi?id=1209
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| 07:58 | * ogra_cmpc sighs | |
| 07:59 | <ogra_cmpc> the thing you point me to since i woke up ...
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| 08:00 | <cyberorg> good morning :)
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| 11:03 | <Gadi> ogra_cmpc: ping
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| 11:04 | <ogra_cmpc> Gadi, ?
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| 11:04 | <Gadi> hey - would you happen to know if in gutsy, the CONSOLE_KEYMAP list is the same as the XKBLAYOUT?
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| 11:04 | or how to retrieve the full list of options
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| 11:05 | for CONSOLE_KEYMAP
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| 11:05 | is it just: /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/
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| 11:10 | <ogra_cmpc> probably from /var/lib/dpkg/info/console-setup.config ?
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| 11:10 | <Gadi> hmm... I found online a pseudo-man page for ckbcomp
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| 11:10 | looks like it is the same as XKBLAYOUT
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| 11:10 | as it computes from XKB
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| 11:12 | YAY! more hard-coded keymaps! :)
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| 11:13 | <ogra_cmpc> ??
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| 11:13 | * Gadi reads /var/lib/dpkg/info/console-setup.config | |
| 11:13 | <ogra_cmpc> thats surely generated during package build
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| 11:13 | not hardcoded
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| 11:13 | <Gadi> ah, ok
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| 11:15 | <ogra_cmpc> oh, fun ...
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| 11:15 | discovering that you have a typo at the end of a script that takes 2h torun is always a pleasure
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| 11:16 | grmbl
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| 11:16 | <Gadi> should have run with --fix-typo
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| 11:16 | <ogra_cmpc> damned, why didnt you say that earlier
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| 11:16 | now its already running agin
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| 11:18 | * Gadi wonders if it is safe to set CONSOLE_KEYMAP = XKBLAYOUT | |
| 11:18 | <ogra_cmpc> i think the config file says that
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| 11:18 | <Gadi> the code does: ckbcomp -model pc105 "$CONSOLE_KEYMAP"
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| 11:19 | that config file is not very readable
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| 11:20 | <ogra_cmpc> ?
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| 11:21 | /etc/default/console-tools isnt readable ?
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| 11:21 | <Gadi> oh, no - I meant: /var/lib/dpkg/info/console-setup.config
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| 11:21 | <ogra_cmpc> oh, you talk about the debconf file
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| 11:21 | well, thats a package configuration options list for debconf
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| 11:21 | usually nothing users should touch :)
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| 11:22 | <Gadi> right
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| 11:22 | I just want to make sure that what console-setup uses XKBLAYOUT for is the same as when we do:
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| 11:22 | ckbcomp -model pc105 "$CONSOLE_KEYMAP"
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| 11:23 | * Gadi admits this is a dev question - and why should devs get readable docs! :P | |
| 11:23 | <ogra_cmpc> # The following variables describe your keyboard and can have the same
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| 11:23 | # values as the XkbModel, XkbLayout, XkbVariant and XkbOptions options
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| 11:23 | # in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.
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| 11:23 | <Gadi> right
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| 11:23 | but are they used to do:
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| 11:23 | <ogra_cmpc> and there is no other keymap setting anywhere in that file
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| 11:24 | <Gadi> ckbcomp -model pc105 "$XKBLAYOUT"
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| 11:24 | ?
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| 11:24 | * Gadi has to assume yes | |
| 11:24 | <ogra_cmpc> well
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| 11:24 | * Gadi further assumes that ogra never wrote the ltsp code: ckbcomp -model pc105 "$CONSOLE_KEYMAP" | |
| 11:24 | <ogra_cmpc> whats actually used is /etc/console-setup/boottime.kmap.gz
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| 11:25 | unless you trigger siomething by hand
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| 11:25 | \and that is set on package install
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| 11:25 | <Gadi> am I the only one here working on LTSP? :)
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| 11:25 | in ltsp-client-setup, we run: ckbcomp -model pc105 "$CONSOLE_KEYMAP"
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| 11:26 | <Gadi> I dont care what Ubuntu PCs do by default
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| 11:26 | <ogra_cmpc> huh ?
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| 11:26 | <Gadi> I just want to understand what *we* do
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| 11:26 | <ogra_cmpc> where qand when was that added ?
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| 11:26 | <Gadi> look in the code
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| 11:26 | thats been there since the beginning of time
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| 11:26 | must have ben mdz
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| 11:26 | <ogra_cmpc> beta freeze today
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| 11:27 | * ogra_cmpc has no time to dig deep into ltsp atm | |
| 11:27 | <Gadi> ok
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| 11:27 | <ogra_cmpc> in any case that needs to go
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| 11:27 | <Gadi> why?
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| 11:27 | <ogra_cmpc> ltsp-build-client runs console-setup configuration during build
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| 11:27 | we shouldnt5 muck around manually there
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| 11:28 | <Gadi> unless you want a different keymap than the default locale
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| 11:28 | <ogra_cmpc> if we need to there needs to be a proper preseeding mechanism and a dpkg-reconfigure in place
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| 11:29 | if you want a different keymap add that code :)
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| 11:29 | <Gadi> lol
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| 11:29 | * Gadi moves on to more important things... | |
| 11:29 | <ogra_cmpc> its the only place where it should be set
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| 11:29 | <Gadi> as many have most likely done in the past
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| 11:30 | <ogra_cmpc> since it will care for all dependent changes that habve to be made if there are any
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| 11:30 | and will not break on upgrades
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| 11:32 | <ogra_cmpc> Gadi, put up proper preseeding with debconf-communicate to set trhe debconf values for keymap and model and run dpkg-reconfigure console-setup >/dev/null 2>&1
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| 11:33 | <johnny> dpkg-reconfigure classmate-pc
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| 11:33 | done
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| 11:33 | <johnny> ok ogra, finished your work for ya :)
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| 11:33 | <ogra_cmpc> haha
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| 11:35 | <johnny> hmm... soon it will time time to get back to the kernel..
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| 11:35 | be time*
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| 11:36 | if i do that, and have a couple ebuilds, gentoo support will be on it's way..
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| 11:36 | <ogra_cmpc> cool
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| 11:36 | <johnny> it is really helping me understand some inner bits of ltsp
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| 11:46 | <lns> Hey all
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| 12:15 | <highvoltage> where can I find sbalneav's fancy documentation again?
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| 12:19 | <ogra> highvoltage, apt-get install edubuntu-docs
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| 12:19 | <highvoltage> ogra: ooh, thanks!
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| 12:19 | <ogra> its all in the edubuntu handbook
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| 12:19 | (and only there sadly)
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| 12:20 | <highvoltage> hmm, where do I find it again? I looked in file:///usr/share/doc/edubuntu-docs/ but I only find the copyright file, etc there
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| 12:20 | <ogra> in yelp :)
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| 12:20 | startpage, right side at the bottom
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| 12:22 | <highvoltage> wow, this is nice documentation. can't see where it mentions how to disable ssh encryption though, but I'll keep digging a bit more there...
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| 12:23 | <vagrantc> LDM_DIRECTX=true
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| 12:24 | <highvoltage> thanks vagrantc
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| 12:26 | <vagrantc> i think gutsy was the first ubuntu release to support it
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| 12:27 | <ogra_cmpc> right
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| 12:27 | and i'm niot sure scott updated the docs
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| 12:27 | <dberkholz> johnny: keep the emerge world regardless, doesn't matter how out of date it is, it's what we'll have and what all the users will use (same thing they'd do on any new install)
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| 12:27 | <johnny> i plan to keep it
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| 12:27 | i just say that it is totally broken :)
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| 12:30 | !!! Multiple versions within a single package slot have been
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| 12:30 | !!! pulled into the dependency graph:
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| 12:30 | <ltspbot> johnny: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
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| 12:30 | johnny: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
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| 12:30 | <vagrantc> dberkholz: did we ever figure out if you have admin privledges on launchpad ?
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| 12:31 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, just make him one
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| 12:31 | <dberkholz> vagrantc: i don't remember exactly how you added me
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| 12:31 | <johnny> dberkholz, i'm assuming that a 2008.1 stage tarball will fix it
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| 12:31 | * vagrantc casts the proper launchpad incantation | |
| 12:31 | <ogra_cmpc> :)
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| 12:31 | <dberkholz> johnny: grab tarballs from funtoo.org to test if you want
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| 12:31 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: had it been clear how to do so, there would be no doubt weather it had been done.
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| 12:32 | <dberkholz> drobbins has been posting weekly stages
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| 12:32 | <johnny> oh.. daniel robbins has some?
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| 12:32 | aha
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| 12:32 | thanks!
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| 12:32 | i would be willing to build one myself, if i knew the proper way
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| 12:32 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+members
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| 12:32 | <johnny> but using somebody else's is great too
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| 12:33 | <dberkholz> johnny: you use catalyst
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| 12:33 | <ogra_cmpc> click on the pen next to donnie
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| 12:33 | <johnny> sure, i have catalyst, but then what? :) i'd like to use the same method as releng, of which i do have the svn repo, but i don't know what to do after
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| 12:34 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: unless i'm missing something, i don't have privs to make dberkholz an admin
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| 12:34 | <dberkholz> johnny: run catalyst =)
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| 12:34 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, what do you see on the detailed page (after clicking teh pen)
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| 12:35 | <dberkholz> if you have the spec files and a portage snapshot, i don't recall it being a difficult process
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| 12:35 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: Administrator: No
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| 12:35 | <ogra_cmpc> there should be a radiobutton for admin next to the "member since"
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| 12:35 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: no radiobutton
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| 12:35 | <johnny> hmm.. no stage3.. only 1 and 2..
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| 12:35 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm, weird
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| 12:36 | <johnny> oh.. the previous ones have stage3
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| 12:36 | just not the current ne
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| 12:36 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i'm wondering if "team owner" has more privs than administrators ?
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| 12:36 | <ogra_cmpc> apparently
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| 12:37 | <johnny> i'm happy using somebody else's tho,since that means i don't have to waste cpu time building one myself
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| 12:37 | i need another box i guess
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| 12:37 | <ogra_cmpc> i wonder if i can make ltsp-upstream own ltsp-upstream
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| 12:37 | <dberkholz> bbl
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| 12:37 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:37 | <ogra_cmpc> The person/team named 'ltsp-upstream' is not a valid owner
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| 12:37 | gah
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| 12:37 | <johnny> gah! :(
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| 12:38 | he's on a good server.. 800K down..
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| 12:38 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, try now
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| 12:38 | Summary should have changed for you as well
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| 12:39 | to Restricted Team
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| 12:39 | apparently "moderated team" only allows the owner to approve admins
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| 12:40 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: no luck
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| 12:40 | ogra_cmpc: i can remove my own administrator status :)
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| 12:41 | <ogra_cmpc> well, it was moderated which apparently was the wrong thing ... but now its restricted
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| 12:41 | Restricted Team: New members can only be added by one of the team's administrators.
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| 12:41 | <ogra_cmpc> that should give you the right
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| 12:42 | well, i'll do it for now and try to not forget about asking in #launchpad
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| 12:43 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: yeah, i see the restricted team stuff now
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| 12:43 | but still no way to make someone an admin ..
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| 12:43 | <ogra_cmpc> but you cant change
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| 12:43 | <johnny> dberkholz, running again :)
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| 12:43 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i think we've found a bug.
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| 12:44 | ogra_cmpc: it does give me a radiobutton to disable your admin status
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| 12:44 | <ogra_cmpc> dberkholz, are you promising to use your powers with care and not add people to the team that fuck up everything ?
| |
| 12:44 | <johnny> ogra_cmpc, i think you can trust him
| |
| 12:44 | he does very well with gentoo :)
| |
| 12:45 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, well, it should then also give you one for dberkholz
| |
| 12:45 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: yes. should and does are two different things in this case.
| |
| 12:45 | <ogra_cmpc> funny
| |
| 12:46 | <vagrantc> i can take away admins, but not add them :)
| |
| 12:46 | * ogra_cmpc makes dberkholz and admin | |
| 12:46 | <ogra_cmpc> *an
| |
| 12:46 | vagrantc, can you take away his status ?
| |
| 12:47 | <johnny> is it possible to only allow commit access to certain branches?
| |
| 12:47 | or creation of branches, but not addition?
| |
| 12:47 | err not commit to certain branches
| |
| 12:47 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: yup.
| |
| 12:47 | <ogra_cmpc> something at least
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| 12:47 | mccann_ has quit IRC | |
| 12:47 | <johnny> here we go again..
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| 12:48 | <ogra_cmpc> johnny, you can create a branch and allow access for people or teams, yes
| |
| 12:48 | <johnny> so, who here uses ltsp on multiple distros?
| |
| 12:49 | * ogra_cmpc crosses fingers watching tonight scmpc image booting .... (belated after we fucked up glibc and had no archive the whiole day) | |
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| 12:52 | <johnny> hmm..
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| 12:52 | soneyka has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:52 | <johnny> dberkholz, when doing that step, i get
| |
| 12:53 | emerge -uD world with PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT
| |
| 12:53 | scanelf.c:1: error: CPU you selected does not support x86-64 instruction set
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| 12:54 | i'm having trouble guessing that it's even using my config in any case, as i'm actually getting a message like
| |
| 12:54 | Overlay eclasses override eclasses from PORTDIR
| |
| 12:54 | since i'm using the gnome overlay
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| 12:55 | shouldn't that be ignored since i'm using PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT ?
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| 12:57 | <johnny> ogra_cmpc, how common is the usage of 64bit servers with 32bit clients?
| |
| 12:58 | sounded pretty common from the times i've been around here
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| 12:59 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, people do crazy stuff
| |
| 12:59 | sadly its quite common
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| 13:00 | <johnny> what's the problem with it?
| |
| 13:00 | other than flash..
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| 13:00 | <ogra_cmpc> flash
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| 13:00 | <johnny> other than flash :)
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| 13:01 | <ogra_cmpc> thats usually enough to generate some weeks of support in here
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| 13:01 | <johnny> sure, but i dont' even have flash
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| 13:01 | at the store
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| 13:01 | it is disabled
| |
| 13:02 | so would you consider it a problem in any other case other than flash?
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| 13:02 | <ogra_cmpc> java probably
| |
| 13:03 | but that should work if you use the 64bit ff wiuth the 64bit icedtea
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| 13:03 | <vagrantc> there's still some hard-coding in some of the ltsp tools that doesn't behave well with cross-arch stuff
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| 13:03 | daduke_ has quit IRC | |
| 13:03 | <ogra_cmpc> the prob with flash is that people use the 32bit version on amd64
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| 13:03 | <warren> My 64bit server defaults to 32bit clients
| |
| 13:04 | <ogra_cmpc> and dont realize that ff needs far more than just some libs if you want all features to work right
| |
| 13:04 | warren, i meant the 32bit version of ff on a 64bit env
| |
| 13:04 | <johnny> i'm using nspluginwrapepr on my own box
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| 13:04 | nspluginwrapper
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| 13:05 | <warren> make sure you use a very recent nspluginwrapper
| |
| 13:05 | they fixed a critical glib threading bug that latest flash needs
| |
| 13:05 | <johnny> no problems so far..
| |
| 13:05 | <warren> otherwise it crashes more often than usual on multi-core cpus
| |
| 13:05 | took me WEEKS to figure that out
| |
| 13:06 | <Blinny> What kind of performance hit do you take using 32-bit w/ PAE-enabled kernel though? I've not yet had time to do tests.
| |
| 13:06 | <warren> Blinny, 5-20% depending on the hardware and what software you are using. There are benefits to using x86_64 kernel with 32bit userspace.
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| 13:07 | <ogra_cmpc> thats what ubuntu does by default since gutsy
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| 13:07 | we dont have the amd64 kernel flavour anymore
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| 13:07 | <Blinny> ogra_cmpc: 64-bit kernel and 32-bit userspace?
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| 13:07 | <ogra_cmpc> right
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| 13:07 | <Blinny> Woah. I didn't know that.
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| 13:07 | <ogra_cmpc> ubuntu only has a -generic kernel
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| 13:08 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, eh? one kernel boots either 32bit or 64bit?
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| 13:08 | <ogra_cmpc> well, and some specific other ones, but no arch separation anymore
| |
| 13:08 | warren, no, the same kernel installed on either environment
| |
| 13:09 | s/kernel/kernel binary/
| |
| 13:09 | <Blinny> ogra_cmpc: So, come Hardy final release time, one can just install the i386 variant and get a 64-bit-enabled kernel out-of-the-box, sans PAE
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| 13:09 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, I don't understand
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| 13:10 | <ogra_cmpc> Blinny, right, the kernel binary package is generalized
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| 13:11 | warren, you have the same binary ... no matter if you use the amd64 cd or the i386 cd for installing your system
| |
| 13:11 | <Blinny> ogra_cmpc: Coo. Thank you.
| |
| 13:11 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, vmlinuz has both 32bit and 64bit kernel?
| |
| 13:11 | or separate files?
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| 13:11 | mccann has quit IRC | |
| 13:11 | <ogra_cmpc> vmlinuz ids the same on both arches
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| 13:12 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:12 | <ogra_cmpc> same binary
| |
| 13:12 | dont ask me about details i'm not in the kernel team, thats how it was explained to me by the kernel guys
| |
| 13:13 | i just know that we have about five different kernel flavours before and we now have one
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| 13:13 | <warren> If you install Fedora's kernel-2.6.24.3-12.fc8 on i386, you get i386 kernel. If you install the same version number on x86_64, you get x86_64 kernel.
| |
| 13:14 | we have one kernel RPM per architecture. 32bit, 64bit, ppc, ppc64, s390, s390x, ia64 (and soon mips, arm, sparc64)
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| 13:14 | <ogra_cmpc> we still have different arches
| |
| 13:14 | but no differentiation beytween 32 and 64 bit anymore
| |
| 13:15 | not sure how that is with ppc/ppc64
| |
| 13:17 | <vagrantc> ubuntu doesn't even support powerpc anymore, no?
| |
| 13:19 | <ogra_cmpc> community supported
| |
| 13:19 | *canonical* doesnt support ppc anymore
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| 13:19 | same goes for sparc
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| 13:24 | vagrantc, lpia might be added with hardy, not sure
| |
| 13:24 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: what's that?
| |
| 13:24 | <ogra_cmpc> intel menlo
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| 13:24 | mobile cpu
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> ah.
| |
| 13:25 | i only have some guage of interesting old and likely obsolete stuff.
| |
| 13:25 | <ogra_cmpc> technically we started supporting it at end of gutsy ... but i'm not sure about the canonical support status, might become official
| |
| 13:25 | and there were discussions about the cell arch
| |
| 13:25 | (playstation)
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| 13:32 | <warren> PS3 Linux is fine for compute node with highly specialized code
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| 13:32 | but otherwise useless especially for UI's
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| 13:35 | <ogra_cmpc> warren, depends if sony gives you the specs and how much evilness you bear, i know they offer an nda for devs
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| 13:35 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, you know my tolerance level for evil
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| 13:35 | <ogra_cmpc> so having a cd that enables devs to work on teh platform might be helpful for them
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| 13:36 | them == sony
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| 13:36 | <mikesh> hello, i have problem with lts.conf, XF86CONFIG_FILE doesnt work, is there some bug or.. what?
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| 13:38 | <Gadi> mikesh: did you set it to the full /path/to/file
| |
| 13:39 | ?
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| 13:39 | <ogra_cmpc> warren, well, my tolerance level corellates with my social sense ... there are situations where i think its ok to accept evil ... else i wouldnt work on the cmpc to get a laptop to every child ...
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| 13:40 | <mikesh> Gadi: no, just /etc/X11/my.xorg.conf (full path is /opt/ltsp/i383/etc/X11/my.xorg.conf)
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| 13:40 | <Gadi> that is correct - what you did
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| 13:40 | did you update the imag?
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| 13:40 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, that's otherwise known as "flexible morals" =)
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| 13:40 | <ogra_cmpc> mikesh, distro/ltsp release ?
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| 13:40 | <Gadi> *image?
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| 13:41 | <mikesh> ogra_cmpc: debian lenny, ltsp from apt, i dont know version
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| 13:41 | <ogra_cmpc> warren, no, hat is known as social sense, i find the bigger piocture more importwant than my own ideology so if i can get the kids a latop by renting my butt out to intel i do that
| |
| 13:41 | <mikesh> Gadi: yes
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| 13:41 | <Gadi> ah, then nm the image comment
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| 13:41 | :)
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| 13:41 | <Gadi> try changing to: X_CONF
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| 13:41 | both *should* work but, the one you use is deprecated
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| 13:45 | <mikesh> Gadi: thats it, thanks a lot
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| 13:45 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, "I think NVidia 3D is important for social reasons, thus I'm willing to violate copyrights to ship it in my distro?"
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| 13:46 | <ogra_cmpc> no, thats different
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| 13:46 | <Gadi> np
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| 13:46 | <ogra_cmpc> and you can include it in a way that it doesnt infringe coopyrights
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| 13:46 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, that is a legal gray area
| |
| 13:46 | <ogra_cmpc> well
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| 13:46 | * laga gets out the popcorn | |
| 13:46 | <ogra_cmpc> anyway the reasons are different
| |
| 13:46 | <warren> anyway neither of us will win this discussion.
| |
| 13:47 | I know what you are referring to in Sony
| |
| 13:47 | is different
| |
| 13:47 | In Sony's case you could be under NDA and develop
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| 13:47 | (as long you aren't doing GPLv3)
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| 13:47 | <ogra_cmpc> laga, sadly both nicks (waldorf *and* stadler) are taken already :)
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| 13:48 | well, in caseof nvidia its simply "enable all users to use their hw"
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| 13:48 | as long as the area is grey thats fine ... if you step into clear inllegality its not imho
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| 13:48 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, unless you are using an older nvidia card where they dropped you
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| 13:49 | <ogra_cmpc> well, but then you are screwed anyway since its unlikely to be supported by anythig else than vesa
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| 13:50 | <warren> Which goes back to the other reasons why depending on evil is not good for you. =)
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| 13:51 | <ogra_cmpc> i didnt say i would make anything depend on evil ... :)
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| 13:51 | but i'm willing to make compromises
| |
| 13:52 | if i can achieve bigger goals through that
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| 13:53 | <laga> i think nvidia still supports riva tnt2 cards thru their legacy-driver.. ;)
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| 13:53 | <ogra_cmpc> in ubuntu at least, yeah
| |
| 13:54 | but it wont work better than vesa anyway
| |
| 13:54 | so you can save the time for fiddling :)
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| 13:54 | <laga> it'll still give you Xv, no?
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| 13:54 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm
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| 13:54 | might be ...
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| 13:54 | but thats something only myth people care about :P
| |
| 13:54 | <laga> i think so
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| 13:55 | * ogra_cmpc hides | |
| 13:55 | <laga> i recently saw a bug report where one user said he was using a riva tnt2 card with the legacy driver with mythtv
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| 13:55 | * laga slaps ogra_cmpc | |
| 13:55 | <ogra_cmpc> :)
| |
| 13:56 | <warren> Open spec ATI cards are making real progress
| |
| 13:56 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, heard that
| |
| 13:56 | <warren> kind of funny, avivo made more progress than the PAID radeonhd effort
| |
| 13:56 | <laga> heh
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| 13:56 | <warren> but ati is ahead of both
| |
| 13:56 | <ogra_cmpc> heh
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| 13:56 | <laga> it's a bit sad too see two independent teams working on it..
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| 13:56 | <ogra_cmpc> well, i turned into an intel fan if it comes to graphics
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| 13:57 | * laga is not gonna buy ATI until their free drivers support proper 3d. | |
| 13:57 | <warren> too bad there's no intel-based thin clients yet
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| 13:57 | laga, me too.
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| 13:57 | <laga> yeah, intel is nice.
| |
| 13:57 | <warren> laga, competition is good.
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| 13:57 | <ogra_cmpc> warren, i heard there is some thinking about it ...
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| 13:57 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, I hope so
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| 13:58 | <laga> i own a radeon 9250 which i bought because of the free drivers.. mythtv in fullscreen mode is very slow with EXA, works with XAA. and interlaced modelines have been broken for a few months now. i'm not happy. :)
| |
| 13:58 | warren: true.
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| 13:58 | <warren> had a Radeon 9200 but it broke
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| 13:59 | laga, the generation after Radeon 9200 works decent with 3D now
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| 13:59 | <ogra_cmpc> i dont think i run any machine that uses something else than onboard graphica anymore
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| 13:59 | *graphics
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| 13:59 | <laga> warren: yeah, r300. the 9200 is still r200 IIRC
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| 14:27 | <johnny> dberkholz, you back yet?
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| 15:22 | <warren> Hmm, I can't think of a good way to redo mkdst and automatically find the spec file elsewhere.
| |
| 15:22 | any ideas
| |
| 15:22 | ?
| |
| 15:23 | I guess you can add NAME.spec to .bzrignore, and symlink create a symlink from there to your spec file elsewhere.
| |
| 15:23 | you would only have to do it once
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| 15:24 | and it wouldn't end up in the tarball or checkin
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| 15:24 | Yeah, I'll do it that way, because any other way would require complicated code that is likely to break.
| |
| 15:26 | * vagrantc thinks a bit | |
| 15:26 | <vagrantc> warren: you need/desire it to automatically detect which spec file to use?
| |
| 15:26 | <warren> vagrantc, no
| |
| 15:27 | * vagrantc doesn't see the huge problem with a commandline option | |
| 15:27 | <warren> vagrantc, I want to retain the ability to instantly build an RPM with any change in my source tree, without having the spec in the tree.
| |
| 15:27 | vagrantc, mkdst rpm ... if NAME.spec does not exist, fail with an explanation. If exists, do it.
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| 15:27 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:28 | <warren> NAME.spec will either be a copy from elsewhere that doesn't exist in this tree permanently or a symlink to elsewhere.
| |
| 15:28 | <vagrantc> i guess i'm not going to be building rpm's ... so i shouldn't invest too much energy in it :)
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| 15:28 | <warren> I think this makes everyone happier and even easier for me, because I don't have to maintain the spec in multiple places.
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| 15:28 | <vagrantc> indeed.
| |
| 15:29 | <warren> After I redo mkdst and make it functional, we can work on splitting out the commands into plugin files.
| |
| 15:29 | so you can add more files for arbitrary other commands
| |
| 15:29 | mkdst susebuildservice
| |
| 15:29 | mkdst whateverbuildservice
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| 15:29 | <vagrantc> i'm still maintaining the init scripts in two places ... *sigh*
| |
| 15:30 | <warren> vagrantc, and I'm removing mkdst-wrapper, if mkdst is installed from a package you really don't need it in the base of each source tree
| |
| 15:30 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah.
| |
| 15:30 | <warren> vagrantc, nobody responded against that in my proposal
| |
| 15:30 | k
| |
| 15:30 | <vagrantc> warren: totally in support of that.
| |
| 15:30 | <warren> ok, implementing...
| |
| 15:30 | <vagrantc> even if you don't have it installed in $PATH, you can specify a full path to it
| |
| 15:31 | <warren> yeah
| |
| 15:31 | vagrantc, any idea how to implement version number comparison in bash?
| |
| 15:31 | * warren hates doing math in bash | |
| 15:32 | <vagrantc> you switching it to bash ?
| |
| 15:32 | <warren> oh
| |
| 15:32 | vagrantc, I dunno, it depends if dash can do the math comparison or not
| |
| 15:32 | vagrantc, given that this is a DEVELOPMENT tool and not an initscript bash shouldn't matter right?
| |
| 15:33 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah, i don't care if it requires bash, although if you're doing things that need bash ... may as well use some other language.
| |
| 15:33 | that's my philosophy, anyways.
| |
| 15:33 | <warren> C!
| |
| 15:33 | <vagrantc> with a few exceptions ...
| |
| 15:33 | warren: could just use "expr" i think.
| |
| 15:34 | <warren> I'll figure it out...
| |
| 15:34 | <vagrantc> warren: but version number comparisons tend to be really complicated
| |
| 15:34 | <warren> I know =(
| |
| 15:34 | <vagrantc> i mean, simple cases are fairly easy to handle ... but if you want something robust ... you have a lot of work ahead of you :)
| |
| 15:35 | warren: what sort of version comparisons are you envisioning?
| |
| 15:35 | <warren> vagrantc, release.conf:REQ_MKDST=0.8
| |
| 15:35 | mkdst-1.0 > mkdst-0.8
| |
| 15:36 | mkdst-0.7 < mkdst-0.8
| |
| 15:36 | vagrantc, maybe we don't really need a minimum mkdst marker
| |
| 15:36 | <vagrantc> oh, so you're basically in control of the version numbering and don't have to support insane versions
| |
| 15:36 | <warren> vagrantc, yeah
| |
| 15:36 | current version is mkdst-0.5
| |
| 15:36 | <vagrantc> that's not so bad
| |
| 15:36 | * vagrantc tends to like X.Y.Z versions ... even if Z is usually .0 | |
| 15:37 | <warren> We can move from 0.Y in the next version if you want.
| |
| 15:37 | <vagrantc> not something i'd spend much energy on :)
| |
| 15:38 | <warren> vagrantc, we still have to talk about what version numbers to give upstream ltsp/ltspfs/ldm
| |
| 15:38 | <vagrantc> yeah.
| |
| 15:39 | <warren> not easy, given that both you and ogra are shipping things that aren't in trunk right?
| |
| 15:39 | <vagrantc> in ubuntu and debian, we're up to ltsp 5.0.40~ (~ means "a little less that") ... and ltspfs is i think 0.5.0~ ... ldm is crazy ... debian's basically 0.1~ and ubuntu's 5.0.40~
| |
| 15:39 | <warren> vagrantc, an option might be to JUST TAG NUMBERS but don't call it a release. They are only milestones.
| |
| 15:39 | vagrantc, that would be terribly useful for me
| |
| 15:40 | <vagrantc> warren: i believe everything we're shipping is basically in bzr, with a few small exceptions.
| |
| 15:40 | warren: but not tagged as yet.
| |
| 15:40 | <warren> ltspfs and ldm, let's just tag them with a number, call it only a milestone and move on?
| |
| 15:41 | my packages would then have sane progressions instead of CONSTANTVERSION-date
| |
| 15:41 | And we really have to branch ldm
| |
| 15:41 | <vagrantc> warren: i'm not willing to branch ldm until someone actually has a branch to merge and say "this is different and should be trunk"
| |
| 15:42 | <warren> vagrantc, sadly, we have to convert the metadata format in order to support bzr tags.
| |
| 15:42 | <vagrantc> really? gah.
| |
| 15:42 | <warren> vagrantc, yes, none of the 3 have dirstate tags
| |
| 15:42 | <vagrantc> bzr is making me grumpy. even though i like it.
| |
| 15:42 | * warren last I looked. | |
| 15:42 | <warren> apparently bzr became a GNU project
| |
| 15:43 | <vagrantc> laga: you're using aufs for ltsp related stuff ?
| |
| 15:44 | unionfs is borked in debian at the moment ...
| |
| 15:44 | * vagrantc notes that it's been a long moment, from the looks of things | |
| 15:44 | <vagrantc> squashfs is borked, too.
| |
| 15:44 | and people wonder why i stick with NFS
| |
| 15:45 | <warren> how's fuse-unionfs?
| |
| 15:45 | <vagrantc> NBD+squashfs+unionfs ... that's 3 different layers that can break.
| |
| 15:45 | <warren> vagrantc, squashfs too? ugh.
| |
| 15:46 | <vagrantc> i haven't tried funionfs lately...
| |
| 15:46 | was difficult to get fuse working in the initramfs, though
| |
| 15:46 | <warren> what sort of issues?
| |
| 15:47 | <vagrantc> it was months ago, i don't really remember.
| |
| 15:48 | the thing i eventually had working was NBD+squashfs+tmpfs bind mounts
| |
| 15:49 | i'd like to try next is NBD(with cow)+ext2
| |
| 15:49 | maybe add tmpfs bind mounts for the regularly written stuff
| |
| 15:51 | <warren> what kind of cow?
| |
| 15:51 | slidesinger has left #ltsp | |
| 15:51 | <warren> tmpfs bind mounts for regularly written stuff because cow will constantly grow because it lacks whiteouts?
| |
| 15:51 | or collapsing
| |
| 15:51 | or whatever it is called
| |
| 15:51 | does unionfs collapse?
| |
| 15:51 | Create file, delete file, is memory space recovered?
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| 15:53 | <johnny> you're a cow
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| 15:53 | hehe
| |
| 15:54 | i'm having trouble choosing bzr for my own projects because of it
| |
| 15:54 | i thought mtn was complicated.. but i'm having serious trouble learning bzr
| |
| 15:54 | like.. wtf does bzr make a backup file when i revert :(
| |
| 15:55 | why do i have a choose a branch format, etc :(
| |
| 15:55 | lame lame lame :(
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> warren: NBD's copy-on-write support
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| 15:56 | <warren> sweet, really simple changes makes RPM build support much smoother
| |
| 15:56 | mkdst rpm --> mkdst-0.5-1.fc9.20080313.16
| |
| 15:56 | normal rpmbuild --> mkdst-0.5-1.fc9
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| 15:56 | vagrantc, oh! forgot about that.
| |
| 15:57 | vagrantc, is that implemented in nbd client itself or the server do you know?
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| 15:57 | <vagrantc> warren: server-side
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| 15:57 | warren: so could be really useful for low-memory clients
| |
| 15:57 | <warren> I see.
| |
| 15:57 | Yeah
| |
| 15:57 | <johnny> hmm.. now i have to figure out how to use this setarch thing properly..
| |
| 15:58 | or else figure out another way to force compiles into the chroot from amd64 server :(
| |
| 15:58 | prolly need other magicz
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| 15:58 | <warren> Gentoo huh?
| |
| 15:58 | * vagrantc thinks doing as much in the chroot as possible is wise | |
| 15:58 | <johnny> vagrantc, dberkholz disagrees :)
| |
| 15:58 | <warren> vagrantc, so he'll have to install the gcc and toolchain in the chroot? nasty.
| |
| 15:59 | <laga> vagrantc: i use aufs
| |
| 15:59 | * vagrantc feels popular | |
| 16:00 | <vagrantc> johnny: well, i'll conceed to dberkholz on all things gentoo ...
| |
| 16:00 | <dberkholz> aww, you're so sweet =)
| |
| 16:00 | * johnny needs to come to portland :( | |
| 16:00 | <johnny> why does it have to be on the completely opposite side of the country :(
| |
| 16:00 | <dberkholz> gentoo shouldn't have any trouble doing stuff from outside the chroot, portage fully supports installing elsewhere from /, and it allows all the build deps to stay out of the client
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| 16:00 | abadger1991 has quit IRC | |
| 16:00 | <johnny> dberkholz, the problem is compiling for x86
| |
| 16:01 | <dberkholz> johnny: you might use crossdev to build out an x86 toolchain
| |
| 16:01 | <johnny> well i shouldn't need to
| |
| 16:01 | <dberkholz> although i think just adding -m32 to cflags on amd64 should do it
| |
| 16:01 | <vagrantc> but in general, i think doing things inside the chroot rather than server-side is a good thing ... as it allows you to support different environments in a clean way ...
| |
| 16:01 | <johnny> there's something about ABI
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| 16:01 | <warren> vagrantc, hmm, here's an issue with NBD cow
| |
| 16:01 | vagrantc, your image can't be squashfs
| |
| 16:01 | <dberkholz> johnny: if you're using PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386 and you have the profile set up there properly, it should work
| |
| 16:01 | <johnny> i can't tell if you can set it as an env variable
| |
| 16:01 | <dberkholz> johnny: not saying it _does_ work, but it should
| |
| 16:01 | <vagrantc> warren: my images can't use squashfs right now anyways :)
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| 16:01 | <dberkholz> johnny: ABI comes from the profile
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| 16:01 | <johnny> aha.. true
| |
| 16:01 | <dberkholz> so should be a matter of getting profile for clients respected
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| 16:02 | <warren> vagrantc, so you would export an ext3 image raw?
| |
| 16:02 | <vagrantc> warren: ext2, but yeah
| |
| 16:02 | <johnny> scanelf.c:1: error: CPU you selected does not support x86-64 instruction set
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| 16:02 | <warren> vagrantc, the temporary COW file would have to be the same size as the original right? wont scale?
| |
| 16:02 | <johnny> first update is to pax-utils
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| 16:02 | <vagrantc> warren: i think it incrementally adds space as needed.
| |
| 16:02 | warren: i intend to experiment with it and i'll have a much better idea shortly.
| |
| 16:03 | <warren> vagrantc, using a sparse file or something?
| |
| 16:03 | <dberkholz> johnny: try searching around a bit (google etc) for "cross-compiling" amd64 to x86 on gentoo
| |
| 16:03 | <johnny> been doing it
| |
| 16:03 | a toolchain should be unnecessary tho..
| |
| 16:03 | i mean.. a fully x86 toolchain that is :)
| |
| 16:04 | <dberkholz> right i understand what you're saying
| |
| 16:04 | <johnny> i'll figure it out
| |
| 16:04 | just talking it out with myself a bit
| |
| 16:04 | * vagrantc wonders about starting off with cross-arch builds rather than just getting a basic build first | |
| 16:04 | <dberkholz> yes, i also wonder about this.
| |
| 16:05 | <johnny> the build will work
| |
| 16:05 | minus the kernel
| |
| 16:05 | but that requires fixing genkrnel4..
| |
| 16:05 | <warren> wow, already done with moving spec elsewhere.
| |
| 16:06 | <johnny> i'm already near the last step of the build
| |
| 16:06 | <dberkholz> johnny: you could certainly do http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/amd64/howtos/chroot.xml
| |
| 16:06 | <johnny> yes, i read that
| |
| 16:07 | i just wanted to do it the right way, since it is a very common use case
| |
| 16:07 | <dberkholz> my approach is to first get the simplest case working, but think about what might need to change in more complex cases
| |
| 16:07 | as vagrantc was saying, it seems like you're already trying to start out with a more complex one.
| |
| 16:07 | <johnny> does virtualbox work with 64bit yet?
| |
| 16:07 | otherwise i have no clients to test with anyways
| |
| 16:08 | <dberkholz> is it keyworded for amd64?
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| 16:08 | <johnny> it works in amd64
| |
| 16:08 | <warren> johnny, don't need clients to test it =)
| |
| 16:08 | <johnny> but last i heard, it won't let you boot into one
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| 16:08 | <dberkholz> if virtualbox doesn't, qemu should
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| 16:08 | <johnny> aha.. qemu.. forgot about that..
| |
| 16:09 | mccann has quit IRC | |
| 16:09 | <johnny> how hard is that to setup? any good docs?
| |
| 16:09 | <warren> johnny, the very minimal config to do qemu is in ltsp-trunk/vmclient
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| 16:09 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:09 | <warren> just tweak the stuff in ltsp-vmclient script
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| 16:09 | <johnny> ok.. cool..
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| 16:09 | <warren> I plan on generalizing that script more at some point
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| 16:10 | <johnny> ok.. time to download another stage3..
| |
| 16:10 | <dberkholz> virt-manager is pretty nice for playing w/ qemu
| |
| 16:10 | <warren> johnny, only problem, if you don't have hardware virt then qemu is possibly too slow to use for this testing. You will want to use virtualbox or vmware instead.
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| 16:10 | <johnny> oh.. i don't :(
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| 16:10 | <dberkholz> warren: yeah it's pretty slow, but it's usable for basic tests...
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| 16:10 | <warren> I have no idea how to PXE boot with virtualbox or vmware, but I know they can do it.
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| 16:10 | <johnny> warren, it's very easy
| |
| 16:10 | too easy :)
| |
| 16:11 | 2 clicks away or so
| |
| 16:11 | i use it to tst my ubuntu vm
| |
| 16:11 | err ubuntu ltsp server
| |
| 16:12 | my deployment at the store is all ubuntu
| |
| 16:12 | <vagrantc> for thin client testing, qemu is useable ... slow, sure. but definitely useable to see that it boots and logs in
| |
| 16:13 | <johnny> ok.. i'll get back on this tonight
| |
| 16:13 | <dberkholz> btw johnny i requested a new overlay for ltsp
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| 16:13 | <johnny> first i must go work in aforementioned store
| |
| 16:13 | how does that work?
| |
| 16:13 | do they do the hosting?
| |
| 16:13 | <dberkholz> yes
| |
| 16:13 | and we can get you access once it's set pu
| |
| 16:13 | <johnny> gonna make me learn git?
| |
| 16:13 | :(
| |
| 16:14 | so.. day to day.. i must use.. svn,bzr,mtn, and git :)
| |
| 16:14 | and cvs.. oops
| |
| 16:14 | 5 systems in one day.. kinda tough :)
| |
| 16:14 | <dberkholz> yeah, i need to finish my generic scm wrapper.
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| 16:15 | <johnny> dberkholz, i'll show you some bzr eclasses, and let you pick the best one
| |
| 16:15 | unless you have one in mind already
| |
| 16:15 | one copied from darc, one from svn, and one from git
| |
| 16:16 | <dberkholz> someone's proposed one before, need to check that out
| |
| 16:16 | <johnny> so.. i have the quickstart ebuild
| |
| 16:16 | <dberkholz> i'm sure that git- or darcs-based will be better than svn
| |
| 16:16 | <johnny> now.. what is the recommended naming for live ebuilds now?
| |
| 16:16 | and then you can joke my poor ebuild coding skillz
| |
| 16:17 | i put it in sys-apps.. since gli was there
| |
| 16:17 | hard to choose between that, app-admin, and app-portage..
| |
| 16:17 | lemme know.. so i know where to commit it to
| |
| 16:17 | <warren> laga, ah, just asked airlied. apparently upstream currently ati is way ahead in r500 support, r600 is in parity.
| |
| 16:17 | laga, and avivo is pretty much dead
| |
| 16:18 | <johnny> nice name too :(
| |
| 16:18 | avivo sounds like fun
| |
| 16:19 | ok.. gotta get ready for work.. bbiab
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| 16:24 | i'm so ready for spring.. washing dishes is no fun in a sweater :(
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| 16:26 | mccann has quit IRC | |
| 16:28 | Guaraldo has left #ltsp | |
| 16:30 | <dberkholz> johnny: foo-9999.ebuild
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| 16:36 | elisboa_ has quit IRC | |
| 16:45 | <laga> warren: too bad. but two projects are more than enough :)
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| 17:18 | <vagrantc> ok!
| |
| 17:18 | booted NBD+ext2+tmpfs bind mounts
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| 17:18 | it *is* faster.
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| 17:18 | gentgeen__ has quit IRC | |
| 17:20 | <vagrantc> now to try with NBD's copy-on-write
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| 17:34 | hrm.
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| 17:35 | can't seem to actually get it to mount read-write.
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| 18:50 | <johnny_> dberkholz, so when do you think they will have the overlay up?
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| 18:50 | <dberkholz> johnny_: hopefully within a couple days. haven't heard back yet
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| 18:51 | <johnny_> well, i definitely need an ltspfs ebuild for this process to complete ..
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| 18:51 | actually, i'm trying to figure out what's calling it..
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| 18:52 | staffencasa_ has quit IRC | |
| 18:54 | <ogra> laga, awake by chance ?
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| 18:55 | <warren> vagrantc, I highly doubt anybody has tested NBD cow lately
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah, i'm filing a bug
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| 18:55 | <warren> ogra, what is the latest point of a bzr repo called?
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| 18:55 | ogra, in in git it is called master
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| 18:55 | <ogra> no idea
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| 18:55 | sorry cant discuss atm
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| 18:56 | <vagrantc> warren: could you give more context or more specificity?
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| 18:56 | <warren> just wanting to use the right terminology
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| 18:57 | <laga> ogra: yes.
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| 18:57 | <johnny_> head?
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| 18:57 | <warren> I dunno
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| 18:57 | <johnny_> prolly head..
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| 18:57 | at least eveyrbody will know what you're talking about
| |
| 18:57 | no matter which vcs you use
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| 18:57 | <ogra> laga, just wanted to complain that your last patch didnt apply but i noticed it uses different strip values for patch
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| 18:58 | hmm, but mythbuntu6 doesnt work ...
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| 18:59 | <laga> the patches don't apply on top of each other
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| 18:59 | what's wrong?
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| 18:59 | <ogra> oh
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| 18:59 | you should have noted that in the bug
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| 18:59 | so you only want -6 applied at all ?
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| 19:00 | <laga> yes
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| 19:00 | sorry about the confusion
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| 19:00 | i onyl want the latest
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| 19:00 | staffencasa has quit IRC | |
| 19:06 | <warren> vagrantc, ogra: any preferred command for tarball?
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| 19:06 | mkdst tar
| |
| 19:06 | ?
| |
| 19:06 | mkdst deb
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| 19:06 | mkdst rpm
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| 19:06 | I guess it works.
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| 19:06 | <ogra> tar is fine
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> mkdst deb probably should behave similarly to rpm, only checking for a debian dir instead of a spec file
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| 19:09 | but i don't forsee using it much
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| 19:09 | <warren> right
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| 19:13 | <ogra_cmpc> i wont use it at all
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| 19:14 | <vagrantc> well ...
| |
| 19:14 | i might play with mkdst deb a bit ... if it can save me doing something manually, i'd be happy for it to do so.
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| 19:15 | actually, main thing is renaming the .tar.gz ... NAME_VERSION.orig.tar.gz is the name required for debian packages
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| 19:15 | <ogra_cmpc> well indeed you could fully automate everything :)
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> rather than NAME-VERSION.tar.gz
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| 19:16 | <ogra_cmpc> well, we should probably just add a -deb option to mkdst tar then that mangles the output filename
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| 19:16 | thats something i'd use
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| 19:17 | <vagrantc> i guess .tar.bz2 are accepted now ...
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| 19:17 | <ogra_cmpc> not sure
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| 19:17 | none of my packages have .bz
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| 19:17 | <vagrantc> there was an announcement a while back
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| 19:17 | at least in debian
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| 19:17 | <ogra_cmpc> we start using lzma all over the palce now
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| 19:18 | i think thats still pending debian inclusion
| |
| 19:18 | but itr shrinks openoffice by 15% or so
| |
| 19:18 | <vagrantc> all those .tar.gz that rarely get downloaded could probably save a good deal of disk space with better compression
| |
| 19:19 | <ogra_cmpc> disk space is cheap
| |
| 19:21 | <vagrantc> yes, but spread that across hundreds of mirrors synced daily ...
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| 19:21 | cpu for rarely decompressed tarballs is cheaper.
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| 19:22 | DonSilver has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:24 | <vagrantc> so, as far as i can tell NBD copy-on-write is borked.
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| 19:26 | <ogra_cmpc> oh, why ?
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| 19:26 | last time i tried it it worked
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| 19:26 | <vagrantc> well, in sid, it appears broken.
| |
| 19:26 | <ogra_cmpc> ah
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| 19:26 | <vagrantc> 1:2.9.9-6
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| 19:26 | <ogra_cmpc> i dont thing we synced it the last month
| |
| 19:26 | *think
| |
| 19:27 | <vagrantc> actually, it's been there a while ... what version do you have?
| |
| 19:27 | <ogra_cmpc> 1:2.9.9-1ubuntu1
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| 19:28 | <vagrantc> last i tried, the version in etch 2.8.7-4 was totally unsuitable for root fs
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| 19:28 | would just hang all the time
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| 19:28 | <ogra_cmpc> i didnt try rootfs
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| 19:28 | but for image building it worked
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> i guess i could try with a different image ...
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| 19:32 | <DonSilver> hi boy & girls (if here) greetings from new york
| |
| 19:35 | <warren> mkdst tar --release
| |
| 19:35 | Would srccheck and export_tree_vcs
| |
| 19:35 | without --release it only makes a copy of the current contents (even if it isn't checked in)
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| 19:36 | <vagrantc> hmmmmm.....
| |
| 19:36 | with a different image, it appears to work ...
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| 19:43 | <vagrantc> ok ...
| |
| 19:43 | when run from inetd, NBD copy-on-write doesn't work, but when run from the commandline, it seems to work fine.
| |
| 19:44 | when nbd-server is started from the commandline
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| 19:46 | <warren> hmm
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| 19:46 | mkdst tar --release
| |
| 19:46 | wouldn't really be a release
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| 19:47 | captain_magnus has quit IRC | |
| 19:47 | <warren> what else to call it
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| 19:48 | captain_magnus has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:48 | <johnny_> snap?
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| 19:48 | snapshot?
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| 19:49 | <warren> no
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| 19:49 | the default is snapshot
| |
| 19:49 | well
| |
| 19:49 | the default is not from vcs
| |
| 19:49 | so I guess it is snap
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| 19:50 | rcc is now known as GodFather | |
| 19:50 | <johnny_> i didn't actually know what mkdst did, didn't look at it yet ..
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| 19:51 | ogra_cmpc has quit IRC | |
| 19:51 | <warren> Oh, I know.
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| 19:52 | it is pointless to implement --snap because it would be the same as the current dir checkout
| |
| 19:52 | i'll instead implement --from-tag=FOO
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| 19:52 | so you can reproduce a specific tag tarball exactly
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| 19:53 | <vagrantc> this sounds like pristine-tar
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| 19:53 | fgiraldeau has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:53 | <vagrantc> http://packages.debian.org/pristine-tar
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| 20:05 | patrick_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:05 | patrick_ is now known as patrick1345 | |
| 20:06 | <patrick1345> hello everyone
| |
| 20:11 | is anyone around that could anwser some very basic questions for me about linux and the terminal services
| |
| 20:13 | <jcastro> just ask
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| 20:16 | <patrick1345> ok I'm kind of a novice at using linux, but I would like to set up a system using 'fat' clients so that I can work on my local machine, but also when I need to log remotly into a remote location so that I can open up large database without it being very slow and using alot of network traffic.
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| 20:16 | Right now my company uses exclusivly microsoft servers, but I would like to try to start working on integrating linux.
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| 20:38 | sbalneav has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:39 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 20:39 | <jcastro> hi sbalneav!
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| 20:39 | <sbalneav> Hey jcastro
| |
| 20:39 | <ogra_cmpc> !s
| |
| 20:39 | <ltspbot> ogra_cmpc: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 20:39 | <jcastro> patrick1345: what I did at my last job was enable a PXE-menu on boot, so that people could reboot the machines, and then "log into" LTSP for things like you're describing.
| |
| 20:39 | <ogra_cmpc> thats what i call timing
| |
| 20:40 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: YOU!
| |
| 20:40 | <ogra_cmpc> 2h after ubuntu went into beta freeze
| |
| 20:40 | <jcastro> patrick1345: the default for the menu was to locally boot the machine (with like a 10 second timer), but if people wanted they could pick "Linux" in the menu and boot the machine in thin client mode
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| 20:40 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, how is life ?
| |
| 20:40 | <sbalneav> Finally improving
| |
| 20:41 | <ogra_cmpc> yay
| |
| 20:41 | <sbalneav> my wife finally got another job
| |
| 20:41 | So, the grieve, and the court battle and everything else is now dropped.
| |
| 20:41 | Hey vagrantc
| |
| 20:41 | <vagrantc> man, just when i was about to announce happily that the initramfs-tools hooks for nbd-client work almost out of the box with ltsp... sbalneav shows up!
| |
| 20:41 | * vagrantc smiles at sbalneav | |
| 20:42 | <ogra_cmpc> heh
| |
| 20:42 | <sbalneav> So, to celebrate, let me post something I've been working on.
| |
| 20:42 | Probably too late for hardy, buuuuuut.
| |
| 20:42 | you can see.
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| 20:42 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, mythbuntu includes dislkes mythtv server/client install based on ltsp now :)
| |
| 20:42 | <fgiraldeau> sbalneav: Hi there
| |
| 20:43 | GodFather has quit IRC | |
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| 20:43 | lilian has quit IRC | |
| 20:43 | dberkholz has quit IRC | |
| 20:43 | <fgiraldeau> No, you're kidding!
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| 20:43 | <ogra_cmpc> fgiraldeau, hey, where have you been hiding ?
| |
| 20:43 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: ldm is feature-complete enough to kill sdm now :)
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| 20:43 | <warren> scotty!?
| |
| 20:43 | <sbalneav> Yep
| |
| 20:43 | <ogra_cmpc> suddenly everyone crawls out of their pit ... what happend ?
| |
| 20:44 | <sbalneav> hold on, lemme push a branch
| |
| 20:44 | gimme 2 secs
| |
| 20:44 | dberkholz has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:44 | <fgiraldeau> Well, I was very busy... But seems that I'm a survivor
| |
| 20:44 | <warren> sbalneav, court battle?
| |
| 20:44 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah seems we all were busy
| |
| 20:45 | <sbalneav> yeah. Very, very very long story.
| |
| 20:45 | * ogra_cmpc tries to remember who recently asked if actually someone in #ltsp works on ltsp :) | |
| 20:45 | <fgiraldeau> It's really interesting, we gonna work on NX, memory problems of Firefox and OpenOffice, VoIP for thin-clients, and NBD robustness
| |
| 20:45 | <sbalneav> My wife got the royal screw job
| |
| 20:46 | <ogra_cmpc> fgiraldeau, did you try ff 3 beta4 ??
| |
| 20:46 | <fgiraldeau> sbalneav: What is that
| |
| 20:46 | <warren> wow, everyone really is here now.
| |
| 20:46 | except Eric
| |
| 20:46 | <ogra_cmpc> its supposed to solve the memory probs of the world
| |
| 20:46 | <fgiraldeau> I did try FF 3, but probably not beta4.
| |
| 20:46 | <ogra_cmpc> that came out last week
| |
| 20:46 | <warren> sbalneav, I don't know the details, but you have moral support here.
| |
| 20:47 | <fgiraldeau> I probably should update data about the scenario, to test if the problem is yet there.
| |
| 20:47 | * ogra_cmpc offers beer support | |
| 20:47 | <sbalneav> What I needed was legal support. But it's over now.
| |
| 20:47 | She started the new job a week and a bit ago.
| |
| 20:47 | so
| |
| 20:47 | To decompress
| |
| 20:47 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, well, given your joob that shouldnt be hard to find one would think
| |
| 20:48 | <sbalneav> In winnipeg? IT jobs are hard to come by
| |
| 20:48 | Not a big IT centre here.
| |
| 20:48 | I've branched LDM, and fixed up a TON of things
| |
| 20:48 | <ogra_cmpc> i meant given *your* job legal help shouldnt be hard to find :)
| |
| 20:49 | <sbalneav> Phhht. I make too much to qualify for legal aid.
| |
| 20:49 | <fgiraldeau> sbalneav : So, Why not came in Sherbrooke! ;)
| |
| 20:49 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, sad that you didnt come yesterday () or three hours ago
| |
| 20:49 | now freeze is in place
| |
| 20:49 | <sbalneav> That's ok
| |
| 20:49 | Code will be there for next time.
| |
| 20:49 | <fgiraldeau> Show must go on...
| |
| 20:49 | <sbalneav> so.
| |
| 20:50 | <ogra_cmpc> well, i have to support that crap for three yeas, every extra fix would have helped
| |
| 20:50 | <sbalneav> Well, I've added no new features
| |
| 20:50 | just cleaned up existing ones.
| |
| 20:50 | <ogra_cmpc> exactly waht i wouldhave needed ...
| |
| 20:50 | but well, over now :) it will work as is
| |
| 20:50 | <fgiraldeau> ogra_cmpc: There is time yet for bug fixes, right?
| |
| 20:51 | <ogra_cmpc> fgiraldeau, only beta critical bugs
| |
| 20:51 | <sbalneav> 1) completely glib-ified.
| |
| 20:51 | <ogra_cmpc> its an lts release
| |
| 20:51 | <fgiraldeau> yeah
| |
| 20:51 | <ogra_cmpc> that means we're far more arse about policies
| |
| 20:51 | <sbalneav> 2) 3 different fork/exec methods gone. ldm_spawn now does it all
| |
| 20:52 | <ogra_cmpc> (and we haved a new release manager who is really blocking if it doesnt apply)
| |
| 20:52 | <sbalneav> 3) major cleanup of ssh_chat, making it (hopefully) language independent.
| |
| 20:52 | and I'm looking right now at fixing the -ac bit.
| |
| 20:53 | the branch is pushing
| |
| 20:53 | <ogra_cmpc> i'm not sure we can keep the two shh session thing ... i still didnt manage to get CK to work with it
| |
| 20:53 | <fgiraldeau> ogra_cmpc: that's fair. We will work to support this.
| |
| 20:53 | <ogra_cmpc> which means no administrative apps at all
| |
| 20:53 | fgiraldeau, the current design is unlikely to work with it
| |
| 20:54 | we extra patches sshd to support CK ...
| |
| 20:54 | i see a session set up ...
| |
| 20:54 | but no way to make it active
| |
| 20:55 | sshd approves the first connection, not the second
| |
| 20:55 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: so, your guest login bit doesn't actually pop up a button? Just a blank entry in the username field?
| |
| 20:55 | GodFather has joined #ltsp | |
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| 20:55 | <warren> what is CK?
| |
| 20:55 | <ogra_cmpc> consoleki6t
| |
| 20:56 | <warren> oh, I see.
| |
| 20:56 | sbalneav, will your fixes go into ldm-trunk?
| |
| 20:56 | <ogra_cmpc> the stuff that IMHO has gone into gnome 1year to early
| |
| 20:56 | <sbalneav> ogra_cmpc: So, for CK, you want only one ssh login?
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| 20:56 | patrick1345 has quit IRC | |
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| 20:56 | <warren> ogra_cmpc, I'm not too happy with it either
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| 20:56 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, well, not sure that fixes it yet
| |
| 20:57 | i need to do more debugging
| |
| 20:57 | <warren> sbalneav, where are your ldm fixes now?
| |
| 20:57 | <sbalneav> warren: Well, that's up to everyone else! I'll post a branch, and people can look and see. I don't want to move it to -trunk until people think it's worthwhile.
| |
| 20:57 | warren: uploading.... :)
| |
| 20:57 | <ogra_cmpc> but given that i only had about three four days at all this release for ltsp its in pretty bad shape
| |
| 20:57 | <warren> sbalneav, cool ok
| |
| 20:57 | <sbalneav> bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/ldm-scott
| |
| 20:58 | <warren> let us know when it is done
| |
| 20:58 | <sbalneav> \ | / - \ | / -...
| |
| 20:58 | <ogra_cmpc> its gutsy with as many fixs as i could pull in
| |
| 20:58 | <warren> too bad we didn't start the ldm repo fresh, it would be a lot smaller/faster now
| |
| 20:58 | <sbalneav> (that was the bzr spinner)
| |
| 20:58 | <ogra_cmpc> ugh
| |
| 20:58 | dont use sftp
| |
| 20:59 | use bzr+ssh://
| |
| 20:59 | <sbalneav> oh, ok!
| |
| 20:59 | <ogra_cmpc> thats nearly twice as fast
| |
| 20:59 | <sbalneav> I've always used the sftp :)
| |
| 20:59 | <ogra_cmpc> i think zou can also just use lp://
| |
| 21:00 | <sbalneav> warren: saw your last bit about -ac, and you're right on the money
| |
| 21:00 | <ogra_cmpc> that should translate to -> bzr+ssh//bazaar.launchpad.net/
| |
| 21:00 | <warren> sbalneav, I was right, but I used his patch verbatim =)
| |
| 21:00 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, we spent some nights with it here
| |
| 21:01 | <sbalneav> Oh, is it fixed somewhere else other than in trunk, or still not fixed yet?
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| 21:02 | ltsppbot has joined #ltsp | |
| 21:03 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, that needs deeper thinking about proper xauth usage ...
| |
| 21:03 | <sbalneav> right.
| |
| 21:03 | <ogra_cmpc> i thought vagrant submitted the -ac removal though
| |
| 21:03 | <sbalneav> yeah, he did.
| |
| 21:04 | I was going to look at doing an ldm_login script to pass the terminal's xauth key up to the server.
| |
| 21:04 | do it properly.
| |
| 21:05 | still chugging.
| |
| 21:05 | <ogra_cmpc> you mean an rc.d script ?
| |
| 21:05 | <sbalneav> right.
| |
| 21:05 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah sounds good
| |
| 21:05 | <sbalneav> something like:
| |
| 21:06 | XAUTHKEY=$(xauth --grab_my_key)
| |
| 21:06 | <ogra_cmpc> looks good
| |
| 21:06 | <sbalneav> ssh -S $LDM_SOCKET $LDM_HOST xauth add $LDM_IPADDR:$LDM_VTY-1 $XAUTHKEY
| |
| 21:06 | or the like
| |
| 21:07 | along those lines.
| |
| 21:07 | vagrantc: still there?
| |
| 21:07 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/hardy/
| |
| 21:07 | something to test for you btw
| |
| 21:10 | <sbalneav> K, I'll snag it
| |
| 21:11 | <ogra_cmpc> its quite usable :)
| |
| 21:13 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 21:15 | <fgiraldeau> I see the situation. I will get into the new code and give you feedback on mailing list saturday.
| |
| 21:15 | Take care all, I'm going to sleep
| |
| 21:15 | fgiraldeau has quit IRC | |
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| 21:16 | <sbalneav> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/ltsp/ldm-scott
| |
| 21:17 | <ogra_cmpc> sbalneav, edge isnt good outside of ubuntu ... for
| |
| 21:17 | public usage you should rather post with the edge ripped out
| |
| 21:18 | (it requires certain team privileges iirc)
| |
| 21:20 | wow
| |
| 21:20 | quite a diff
| |
| 21:20 | <warren> do you prefer that size of patch or my billion patches? =)
| |
| 21:21 | nevermind
| |
| 21:21 | <sbalneav> Lots of it is the glibification
| |
| 21:21 | (is that a word?)
| |
| 21:21 | glibossitude
| |
| 21:22 | <warren> sbalneav, that's good
| |
| 21:22 | <sbalneav> glib-inally, it's much better
| |
| 21:22 | <warren> sbalneav, do you know what's the minimum glib API you coded to?
| |
| 21:22 | <ogra_cmpc> warren, its called "major rewrite" :)
| |
| 21:22 | <sbalneav> ummm
| |
| 21:23 | The fanciest thing I'm doing is g_spawn_with_pipes
| |
| 21:23 | so, it shouldn't require latest-and-greatest, I wouldn't think.
| |
| 21:23 | the rest is all using g_string functions
| |
| 21:23 | <ogra_cmpc> warren, worst case the one thats in gutsy
| |
| 21:24 | which is half a year old
| |
| 21:24 | <sbalneav> And there's a joke in there which, due to the family nature of this channel, propriety dicates I won't tell.
| |
| 21:24 | <warren> I just pushed a redesign of mkdst
| |
| 21:24 | Unless I find more bugs this should be mkdst-0.6
| |
| 21:24 | I'm testing it on ltspfs now
| |
| 21:24 | hari has joined #ltsp | |
| 21:24 | <warren> anyone else plan on pushing changes for ltspfs today?
| |
| 21:25 | using ltspfs because it is low traffic
| |
| 21:27 | GodFather has quit IRC | |
| 21:28 | <ogra_cmpc> warren, not me
| |
| 21:28 | <vagrantc> warren: not i
| |
| 21:29 | sbalneav: sorry, was away
| |
| 21:29 | * vagrantc reads backlog | |
| 21:29 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: I can relate :)
| |
| 21:29 | * ogra_cmpc needs sleep .... | |
| 21:29 | <sbalneav> Night!
| |
| 21:29 | <ogra_cmpc> night, good to have you back :)
| |
| 21:29 | <sbalneav> Nice to be back
| |
| 21:29 | * ogra_cmpc hugs scottie | |
| 21:29 | <hari> i'm using ltsp in edubuntu 7.04 feisty. what billing application is usually used in edubuntu feisty? regards
| |
| 21:29 | * sbalneav give ogra_cmpc a goodnight kiss :) | |
| 21:30 | <ogra_cmpc> :)
| |
| 21:30 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: So, guest login
| |
| 21:30 | blank userid?
| |
| 21:30 | I've *&%*$ed that up in my branch.
| |
| 21:32 | <warren> oh, found a bug in my checkin
| |
| 21:35 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: RyanRyan52 did a lot of the LDM coding that i committed
| |
| 21:35 | sbalneav: but it does pop up a button ... doesn't actually insert a username ... basically just sets it to behave like autologin
| |
| 21:35 | sbalneav: and autologin now has some "reasonable defaults"
| |
| 21:37 | <sbalneav> yeah, saw those.
| |
| 21:37 | OK, I've screwed up the guest login in my branch.
| |
| 21:37 | I'll have to sort it out.
| |
| 21:37 | <vagrantc> i did switch it to LDM_GUESTLOGIN ... was LDM_ALLOW_GUEST for a while
| |
| 21:38 | <sbalneav> I'll fiddle with it.
| |
| 21:38 | and make it work with the re-worked ldm
| |
| 21:38 | what I'm REALLY interested in seeing people test
| |
| 21:38 | is the new ssh chat logic
| |
| 21:39 | I *HATED* the "talk to ssh in LANG=C and transliterate to local lang" bit.
| |
| 21:39 | it was sucky
| |
| 21:39 | and hacky
| |
| 21:39 | and icky
| |
| 21:39 | <vagrantc> ssh is localized?
| |
| 21:39 | <sbalneav> I believe so.
| |
| 21:39 | the
| |
| 21:39 | the "passwd" program it calls to change passwords certainly is
| |
| 21:39 | <vagrantc> ah
| |
| 21:40 | <sbalneav> so now, what I do is simply search for either ": " (i.e. a password prompt)
| |
| 21:40 | or LTSPROCKS sentinel
| |
| 21:40 | <warren> what if LTSPROCKS is my password?
| |
| 21:40 | <sbalneav> and I pass through the messages that ssh spits out to the message area
| |
| 21:40 | <vagrantc> if the server is echo'ing your password, it's bad news.
| |
| 21:40 | <warren> =)
| |
| 21:40 | <sbalneav> so... *IN THEORY*,
| |
| 21:41 | warren: no, it doesn't :)
| |
| 21:41 | if you've set up your language to lower slobovian, and ssh into the server, and you have a password expiry
| |
| 21:41 | ssh will talk in slabovian, and pass that through to the greeter.
| |
| 21:41 | <vagrantc> it took me quite a while to realize that LTSPROCKS wasn't just an easter egg
| |
| 21:42 | <sbalneav> the only thing I rely on is that password prompts end with ": "
| |
| 21:42 | which is better than it is now.
| |
| 21:42 | but we need non-english speakers to test that.
| |
| 21:42 | <vagrantc> is it possible that anything else could end in ": " ??
| |
| 21:42 | <warren> en_CA isn't non-english?
| |
| 21:43 | <sbalneav> Hush, American :)
| |
| 21:43 | <vagrantc> would hate to send the password without being absolutely sure it was actually a password prompt
| |
| 21:43 | <sbalneav> the ": " has to be the last thing on the line.
| |
| 21:43 | <warren> it runs passwd?
| |
| 21:43 | vagrantc, no way to guarantee it by screen scraping alone, there are multiple different implementations of passwd
| |
| 21:43 | <sbalneav> sshd runs passwd if there's been a pam_ password expired.
| |
| 21:44 | it's actually hard coded into sshd
| |
| 21:44 | <warren> oh, this passwd is?
| |
| 21:44 | <sbalneav> yeah
| |
| 21:44 | if you've got PAM support enabled in ssh, that's what it runs to handle an expired password.
| |
| 21:45 | <warren> does it actually connect with a console, or is this implemented by the client talking a the protocol?
| |
| 21:45 | (client itself gives the prompt?)
| |
| 21:45 | <sbalneav> actually connects with a console.
| |
| 21:45 | hence the reason why I have to screen scrape ssh
| |
| 21:46 | if there was a *%^$*&^ api to do it, I'd LOVE it.
| |
| 21:46 | <warren> hm..
| |
| 21:46 | I suppose this is OK for a first implementation
| |
| 21:46 | <sbalneav> what you'd REALLY like to have happen is use the ssh-askpass mechanism for expired passwords as well.
| |
| 21:46 | <warren> please mark it with /* XXX: HAAAAAAAACK! Redo this without screen scraping with proper l10n */
| |
| 21:47 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: so have you secretly been preparing this glibification branch, or did you just whip it together in the last few minutes or something? :)
| |
| 21:47 | it's quite the diff
| |
| 21:47 | <sbalneav> I've done this all in the last 4 days.
| |
| 21:47 | <warren> sbalneav, when we later l10nize ldm with gettext, we can more reliably scrape LANG=C and print a l10n prompt, unless we find a better way.
| |
| 21:48 | oh crap, that might make it difficult to login with a non-C lang?
| |
| 21:49 | <sbalneav> right, which is why I'm now passing through the prompts.
| |
| 21:49 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i can upload ltsp, ldm and ltspfs directly now ... so i could do an upload to debian experimental and get some testers
| |
| 21:49 | <warren> sbalneav, I can test this in fedora as well
| |
| 21:50 | <vagrantc> and virtualbox allows me to get work done even in total isolation :)
| |
| 21:50 | <warren> so xauth isn't fixed yet?
| |
| 21:51 | <sbalneav> No, I'll have a look at xauth this weekend.
| |
| 21:51 | <warren> sbalneav, ok cool
| |
| 21:51 | <sbalneav> it's a big problem and should be fixed properly.
| |
| 21:51 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: one of the issues with the xauth thing is that using ssh -X connects to an X proxy, and actually having the authorization key would be rejected by the proxyt
| |
| 21:51 | <warren> sbalneav, I might be checking in changes to support mkdst-0.6 in ldm tonight
| |
| 21:51 | <sbalneav> ok
| |
| 21:51 | <warren> sbalneav, actually the only change might be to delete ldm.spec
| |
| 21:51 | i'll see soon
| |
| 21:52 | <vagrantc> i've struggled with this xauth thing ... no clue where it's failing, really.
| |
| 21:53 | sbalneav: why TRUE changed to 1 and FALSE changed to 0 ?
| |
| 21:54 | <sbalneav> Laziness. I need to fix that :)
| |
| 21:54 | But you'll notice I hacked out all the #includes in that file :)
| |
| 21:55 | <vagrantc> yes. i was thinking we could just apply that patch.
| |
| 21:55 | <warren> I'll do a quick test of his patch right now
| |
| 21:56 | <vagrantc> i'd like to try and merge some of the changes piece by piece ... a lot of it is just glib stuff, but some of it could be isolated out
| |
| 21:56 | i can work on that tomorrow, most likely.
| |
| 21:58 | <warren> grr, don't have a chroot installed
| |
| 21:59 | will take a few minutes to install
| |
| 22:03 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: looks like you removed the if(ldminfo.autologin); load_guestinfo(); call ...
| |
| 22:04 | <sbalneav> Yeah, like I said, I mucked that up.
| |
| 22:04 | * vagrantc is just trying to figure out where | |
| 22:04 | <sbalneav> I had inlined some of it, and it needs to go back out to a separate function.
| |
| 22:04 | like you had it.
| |
| 22:05 | I had started all of this with a gutsy tree, then this morning tried merging in the latest ldm-trunk stuff.
| |
| 22:05 | <vagrantc> whoah. :)
| |
| 22:05 | <sbalneav> Don't worry about it tonight
| |
| 22:05 | I'll fix it up tomorrow morning.
| |
| 22:06 | <vagrantc> overall, looks a lot cleaner
| |
| 22:06 | <sbalneav> Figured if I was going to show up, I didn't want to come empty handed :)
| |
| 22:06 | <vagrantc> :)
| |
| 22:06 | <sbalneav> yeah, it's a definite improvement.
| |
| 22:06 | not so much "i++" now :)
| |
| 22:06 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: with you away, i've actually learned a bit of C ... working on ldm and ltspfs
| |
| 22:06 | <sbalneav> good.
| |
| 22:07 | I've learned a lot about union greivance processes.
| |
| 22:07 | <vagrantc> ouch.
| |
| 22:07 | <sbalneav> I'll wager which one's the more useful knowledge :)
| |
| 22:07 | hint
| |
| 22:07 | <vagrantc> depends on your situation, most likely :)
| |
| 22:07 | <sbalneav> not the grievence stuff
| |
| 22:08 | anyway
| |
| 22:08 | alice's 3 year long ordeal's finally over.
| |
| 22:08 | <vagrantc> 6 files changed, 529 insertions(+), 747 deletions(-)
| |
| 22:09 | over 100 lines of code gone! :)
| |
| 22:10 | <sbalneav> smaller = better :)
| |
| 22:10 | KISS
| |
| 22:10 | err
| |
| 22:10 | smaller == better
| |
| 22:10 | Don't want any side effects in an if statement :)
| |
| 22:11 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 22:12 | * warren is too curious about what happened with that legal thing. | |
| 22:12 | <warren> sbalneav, ok, well, I built with your patch and it seems to be working with fedora 8
| |
| 22:13 | <sbalneav> meh, too long to type :)
| |
| 22:13 | work being a jerk to my wife
| |
| 22:13 | <long boring greivance/court process>
| |
| 22:13 | <warren> oh
| |
| 22:13 | <sbalneav> <work realizes they've screwed up>
| |
| 22:14 | Wife gets moved to different department with old job responsibilities intact
| |
| 22:14 | as of 1.5 weeks ago.
| |
| 22:15 | <warren> and you're stuck with the 3 years of legal bills
| |
| 22:15 | ?
| |
| 22:15 | DonSilver has quit IRC | |
| 22:15 | <sbalneav> it was the old "we'd like to eliminate a position, so to save ourselves the package we'd have to pay her to lay her off properly, we'll cook up a case that she's incompetent so that we can just fire her"
| |
| 22:16 | no, no bills, union lawyer was handling it.
| |
| 22:16 | blah blah blah tl;dr
| |
| 22:17 | glad it's over is all I gotta say.
| |
| 22:17 | <warren> so instead they pay 5x as much in legal expenses trying to let her go?
| |
| 22:18 | <sbalneav> sure
| |
| 22:18 | Working for government's kinda odd sometimes.
| |
| 22:18 | My wife works for the city, I work for the province.
| |
| 22:20 | Anywho. Tired. I'll be on tomorrow.
| |
| 22:20 | I'll fix up the autologin stuff, vagrantc
| |
| 22:20 | night all.
| |
| 22:20 | sbalneav has quit IRC | |
| 22:21 | * warren too | |
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| 23:20 | <warren> vagrantc, hm, I might not be able to USE start_sound in the common script because newer pulseaudio needs different parameters to launch
| |
| 23:22 | MacIver has joined #ltsp | |
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| 23:32 | <vagrantc> warren: i'm thinking start_pulseaudio can be defined in the common script, and then we have the possibility of overwriting it in our own scripts ... ideally working towards merging.
| |
| 23:32 | <warren> vagrantc, overrding you mean?
| |
| 23:32 | <vagrantc> yeah, overriding
| |
| 23:33 | <warren> so source it first
| |
| 23:33 | then write your own
| |
| 23:33 | and it'll use the second one
| |
| 23:33 | <vagrantc> exactly.
| |
| 23:33 | <warren> ah, simple. k.
| |
| 23:34 | <vagrantc> wondering if we should ever deprecate esd and nas ...
| |
| 23:35 | <warren> well, consider who is using LTSP5 in trunk now
| |
| 23:35 | <vagrantc> well, ubuntu is using pulse, debian is using pulse ... fedora's going to be using pulse ?
| |
| 23:36 | although it's a tiny enough bit of code that's not going to change much ... not so evil to leave it in
| |
| 23:36 | <warren> fedora has been using pulse by default in NORMAL desktop sessions even intercepting ALSA since Fedora 8
| |
| 23:37 | leave it for now
| |
| 23:37 | our spyware hidden in ltsp-server can tell us how many people are using it
| |
| 23:37 | =)
| |
| 23:37 | <vagrantc> heh.
| |
| 23:38 | debian has opt-in spyware: http://popcon.debian.org
| |
| 23:38 | <warren> I really like this new mkdst
| |
| 23:38 | <vagrantc> 331 users of ltsp, 73 of ldm, 163 of ltspfs ...
| |
| 23:39 | <warren> I can continue doing what i've been doing before, except my spec changes go elsewhere
| |
| 23:39 | <vagrantc> good.
| |
| 23:39 | the one down-side is ... sometimes i'd actually see something in your .spec file and realize i should do the same for debian
| |
| 23:40 | <warren> well, we still need to do more tree organization changes
| |
| 23:40 | <vagrantc> warren: but i'm guessing you'll publish your spec file in a way that i can easily keep track of it?
| |
| 23:40 | <warren> but I guess getting the code in first makes the tree changes more obvious
| |
| 23:40 | vagrantc, like hell
| |
| 23:40 | * vagrantc raises an eyebrow | |
| 23:41 | <warren> hmm
| |
| 23:41 | vagrantc, I'm super tired and the stupid humor is really kicking in
| |
| 23:41 | * warren trying to find URL | |
| 23:41 | <vagrantc> well, i'd best get some sleep myself.
| |
| 23:41 | <warren> vagrantc, http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/devel/ltsp/ I think that's a permalink
| |
| 23:42 | <vagrantc> warren: cool.
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| 23:42 | <warren> vagrantc, oh, let me know if you have any ideas how we can implement each mkdst command as its own file
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| 23:42 | vagrantc, so we can make it into plugins instead of hard coded into mkdst
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| 23:42 | although maybe doing that would be a bad idea
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| 23:42 | i dunno
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| 23:43 | because then you would need to create a stable API
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| 23:43 | if you can have a bash API
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| 23:43 | <vagrantc> i like plugin type things, so i'll definitely weigh in on it
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| 23:43 | tomorrow :)
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| 23:43 | <warren> good night
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