IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 31 May 2011 (all times are UTC)
| 00:13 | fossala (~fossala@host-84-13-240-77.opaltelecom.net) joined #ltsp. | |
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| 00:44 | alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp. | |
| 01:06 | <fossala> How is audio using ltsp for the clients?
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| 01:07 | I just want to weigh everything up before a buy some thinclients.
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| 01:08 | <Hyperbyte> fossala, why don't you just try LTSP with a normal desktop computer?
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| 01:08 | <alkisg> The client hardware usually doesn't matter for audio (assuming that the card is supported by the linux kernel)
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| 01:09 | The sound "travels" with pulseaudio on the local network
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| 01:09 | <fossala> Good. I will purchase a couple of thin clients for testing tommorow.
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| 01:09 | <Hyperbyte> You could test with regular desktop PC's you know, if you configure them to do a netboot. :)
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| 01:09 | <alkisg> Or even with virtualbox :)
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| 01:10 | <fossala> *facepalm*
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| 01:10 | Didn't think about that.
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| 01:10 | <Hyperbyte> You could run an Edubuntu live DVD (they can create live LTSP servers)
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| 01:10 | And configure some other clients as netboot
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| 01:11 | Then you have an LTSP environment to test with, without the need to install anything
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| 01:11 | <fossala> My server doesn't arive till Thursday. Will the 11.04 iso work?
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| 01:11 | <Hyperbyte> I run 11.04 currently, works fine with LTSP as far I can gather. :)
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| 01:12 | <fossala> In the long term I will be looking into using debian. It's the only linux I know.
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| 01:12 | I normaly use OpenBSD.
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| 01:13 | <Hyperbyte> I'm a long-time RedHat/Fedora user myself. Ubuntu's not difficult to get into though, especially not since it has a great community and especially for LTSP some great online resources.
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| 01:13 | * Hyperbyte points at alkisg | |
| 01:14 | <Hyperbyte> If you want to run live LTSP you'll need the Edubuntu disk by the way, I think.
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| 01:14 | <alkisg> Either debian or ubuntu are fine for ltsp. Can't comment on other distros as I haven't tried them
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| 01:14 | <fossala> Yeah I will try it with the Edubuntu live disk.
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| 01:14 | Should I down clock my cpu to 800mhz (the speed of the thin clients)?
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| 01:14 | Or will it not make to much difference?
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| 01:16 | <alkisg> To test how a thin client would behave? No it wouldn't make much difference
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| 01:17 | The network speed is much more significant than the thin client cpu, usually
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| 01:18 | <fossala> The clients I'm looking at only support 10/100 but my server and switch are both gigabit.
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| 01:19 | I just hope 10/100 is good enough.
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| 01:19 | <alkisg> Then verify that you're not affected by the flow control problem: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
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| 01:19 | 100mbps is OK for each client, but not for the overall network
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| 01:19 | So if you're not affected by the flow control problem, you'll be fine
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| 01:19 | If you're buying new clients, I'd suggest gigabit
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| 01:20 | <fossala> There too expensive.
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| 01:20 | <Hyperbyte> Really?
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| 01:20 | What's your budget, per thin-client?
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| 01:20 | <fossala> | |
| 01:20 | ish
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| 01:20 | <Hyperbyte> That's.... pounds?
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| 01:20 | <alkisg> Which one are you currently looking at?
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| 01:20 | <fossala> It's only a home network.
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| 01:21 | wyse v90l
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| 01:21 | | |
| 01:21 | The thing is I want/need dual monitor support
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| 01:22 | <alkisg> How much ram do those have?
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| 01:22 | 1 gb?
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| 01:22 | <fossala> 512mb
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| 01:22 | and 800mhz eden c7 cpu
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| 01:22 | <alkisg> Hm. Ok, I guess you'll end up using localapps with them
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| 01:23 | <fossala> What would I be looking at needing for not having local apps?
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| 01:23 | <alkisg> Your distro specs
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| 01:23 | E.g. ubuntu says "1 gb ram"
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| 01:23 | Don't know what debian recommends, I guess something similar
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| 01:24 | Ah, I didn't express myself right
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| 01:24 | <fossala> I'm only using openbox for the wife and kids. And tiling window manager for myself.
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| 01:24 | <alkisg> < 512 mb ram ==> only good as thin clients with no localapps
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| 01:24 | 512 => can do localapps
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| 01:24 | >= 1 gb => can do thin, localapps, or fat
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| 01:25 | Your choice of course, what I said was a "guess" on how you'll end up using them
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| 01:25 | <fossala> I would need local apps for the wife (firefox/flash)
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| 01:26 | <alkisg> 512 is enough for firefox+flash as a localapp, np
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| 01:27 | <fossala> | |
| 01:27 | <Hyperbyte> Dual monitor can be tricky by the way
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| 01:27 | <fossala> How/why?
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| 01:27 | <Hyperbyte> I've had numerous problems with it so far...
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| 01:28 | Well, the VGA output of my thin clients is blurry
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| 01:28 | <fossala> Well my desktop has dual monitors aswell so I will test it.
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| 01:28 | <Hyperbyte> I'm not sure yet if it's a configuration problem, driver problem or a problem with the actual thin clients
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| 01:29 | <muppis> For my duals, only issue has been ldm screen. It sits in center.
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| 01:30 | <Hyperbyte> My duals work fine when I run them from a desktop PC with an Nvidia card
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| 01:30 | Since I got actual thin clients it's been problematic.
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| 01:31 | <muppis> I got nvidia too. I just don't trust any other brands anymore.
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| 01:31 | <Hyperbyte> Well, the LTSP Term 1720 has intel graphics onboard
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| 01:32 | <alkisg> My nvidia 8600gt got burned (overheated) and I then saw many many others having that problem - so I switched to intels :)
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| 01:32 | <fossala> I can upgrade the v90l ram to 1GB if needed.
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| 01:32 | <alkisg> But not 8xx intels, those are problematic
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| 01:33 | <fossala> I use ati x600-xt. Fastest gpu that has full support on OpenBSD.
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| 01:33 | <muppis> alkisg, how got it overheated? So far running good, even it is refurbished.
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| 01:34 | <alkisg> Just normal use
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| 01:34 | <muppis> Funny. Maybe I'm feeling lucky.
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| 01:36 | I purchased it from my friend who resoldered it in regular kitchen oven over year ago. :)
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| 01:38 | <alkisg> Hehe I tried that too but then I moved it too quickly and the chips on it moved 1 cm to the side :D
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| 01:39 | <muppis> :D
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| 01:39 | <alkisg> For 1 month I got it working with the hair drier pistol
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| 01:39 | Then oven, then trash :-/
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| 01:40 | <muppis> Shame.
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| 01:46 | <fossala> | |
| 01:48 | <muppis> Haven't solved my sound muting problem in my HTPC. During boot, there comes Invalid card number -error, could that be some hint to start looking for solution?
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| 01:49 | Sound is muted and set to unamplified by default, no matter from user, but it works fine after unmute and setting it to 100%.
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| 03:02 | <andygraybeal> morrninigning
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| 03:44 | <Hyperbyte> Morning. :)
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| 03:45 | <andygraybeal> hi Hyperbyte!!!
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| 04:04 | Gnoze5 (4fa86f05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.168.111.5) joined #ltsp. | |
| 04:04 | <Gnoze5> yellow
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| 04:14 | <andygraybeal> hi hi
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| 04:14 | orangey orange!!! grapity grape!!! lemony lemon!!!
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| 04:14 | omg !! too much lsd.................. my teeth taste like purple...
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| 04:17 | Merwin (~merwin@static.88-198-11-6.clients.your-server.de) joined #ltsp. | |
| 04:18 | <Merwin> Hi everybody, I just installed LTSP Cluster, and my first thin client is working. I would liek to add firefox as a localapp, but I can't firgure how to do this.
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| 04:18 | I tried ltsp-localapps firefox in console, but nothin happen
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| 04:18 | <andygraybeal> have you thought about having fat clients instead of running localapps?
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| 04:19 | <Merwin> Yes, but we definitively want thin client
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| 04:19 | <andygraybeal> k
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| 04:19 | did you install firefox onto the thin client image?
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| 04:19 | <Merwin> Yes, I can start it. But currently I don't think it's run as a localapp (so slow :)
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| 04:20 | <andygraybeal> did you test local apps with xterm?
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| 04:20 | just to make postiive your localapps work?
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| 04:20 | <Merwin> I test
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| 04:21 | It works with xter
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| 04:21 | <Hyperbyte> Merwin, then type 'firefox' into the xterm, see what happens
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| 04:21 | <Merwin> command not found :D
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| 04:22 | <andygraybeal> looks like you need to install firefox into the thin client's image
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| 04:22 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 04:22 | * andygraybeal ^5's Hyperbyte | |
| 04:23 | <Hyperbyte> =D
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| 04:23 | <Merwin> What do you mean by 'thin client image' ? I installed it on teh server, they did ltsp-update-image
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| 04:23 | <Hyperbyte> Merwin, on the server there are two operating systems
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| 04:23 | <andygraybeal> here lemme find the docs
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| 04:23 | <Merwin> Ah you mean in the chroot
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| 04:23 | <Hyperbyte> One is the server OS, which is the normal operating system. There's also the operating system for the client, which is in /opt/ltsp/i386/
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| 04:23 | <Merwin> Ok so chrot /opt/ltsp/i386 and apt-get install firefox :)
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| 04:24 | I'll test
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| 04:24 | <andygraybeal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPLocalAppSetup
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| 04:24 | <Hyperbyte> If you want to run an application locally on the client, you'll have to install it in the client chroot, not on the server
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| 04:25 | <Merwin> Ok, thanks, I test that ;
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| 04:25 | <andygraybeal> :))))
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| 04:25 | <Merwin> But, what's the difference between LTSP Cluster and LTSP if you can run localapps on both
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| 04:25 | I thought only ltsp cluster supported that
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| 04:26 | <Hyperbyte> LTSP Cluster = multiple servers
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| 04:26 | <Merwin> rofl, so I could have installed LTSP I've just one server xD
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| 04:26 | <andygraybeal> :)))
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| 04:26 | <Hyperbyte> If you have say, 50 thin clients, you could still manage probably if you had a really fast server. If you have hundreds, you'll need several servers in a cluster to serve all the clients.
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| 04:27 | <Merwin> Ok, I got it ;)
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| 04:27 | <andygraybeal> thanks for letting me lead that one Hyperbyte :)
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| 04:28 | i know a little of some stuff!!
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| 04:29 | <Gnoze5> Merwin: http://jonathancarter.org/2010/11/24/how-do-ltsp-fat-clients-work/
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| 04:29 | that should help you
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| 04:29 | <andygraybeal> yea, i got plenty of ram in my clients, so fat client is best setup for me!
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| 04:30 | server can handle more things :)
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| 04:30 | <Gnoze5> andygraybeal: what do you can plenty of ram?
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| 04:30 | <andygraybeal> i got 1gb in each box
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| 04:30 | Gnoze5, what?
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| 04:30 | <Gnoze5> andygraybeal: youve answered my question :P
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| 04:30 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 04:31 | i was like.. what?! :P
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| 04:31 | <Hyperbyte> Hehe
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| 04:31 | andygraybeal, how much do you have in the server?
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| 04:32 | <Gnoze5> andygraybeal: what distro do you use for the fatties?
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| 04:32 | <andygraybeal> ubuntu for everything.. i'm an idiot.. ubuntu is for me :)
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| 04:32 | <Hyperbyte> 'fatties'...
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| 04:32 | * Hyperbyte snickers | |
| 04:32 | <andygraybeal> Hyperbyte, i got 8gb in the server.. but i got a server on deck that can handle up to 48GB ... it has 12 in it now... it's still under testing... i'm trying to get SSO to work with all my apps.
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| 04:33 | <Hyperbyte> Oh, nice!
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| 04:33 | CPU? :)
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| 04:33 | <Merwin> Ok firefox starts (with an ugly them, but it starts), but no connection :x
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| 04:33 | <andygraybeal> what is is.. two dual core 3gHz
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| 04:33 | Merwin, yayayayayayaya!!!
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| 04:33 | <Hyperbyte> Nice. :)
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| 04:33 | <andygraybeal> now you needs the proxy!!
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| 04:33 | <Gnoze5> Merwin: proxy, dns?
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| 04:33 | <andygraybeal> let me let me !!
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| 04:34 | i know the answer.. hold on lemme find the web page. no one else answer
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| 04:34 | * Hyperbyte resists | |
| 04:34 | <Gnoze5> lol
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| 04:34 | <Hyperbyte> Merwin: see how eager everyone is to help you? :P
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| 04:34 | <Merwin> No proxy, no dns. But thin clients are in a subnetxork
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| 04:34 | <Gnoze5> Ive settled to Ubuntu 10.04 for our first deployment
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| 04:34 | <andygraybeal> yea, i got 10.04
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| 04:34 | <Merwin> I this that Hyperbyte xD
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| 04:34 | <Gnoze5> i hope its the right choice
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| 04:35 | <andygraybeal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT/
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| 04:35 | i got it!!!
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| 04:35 | Merwin read that
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| 04:35 | <Hyperbyte> Merwin, do you have a router in your network?
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| 04:35 | <Merwin> Yep, before internet
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| 04:36 | I read andygraybeal thanks
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| 04:36 | <Hyperbyte> Are the LTSP clients connected to the router, or to the LTSP server only?
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| 04:36 | <andygraybeal> Merwin, awesome, your fast :)
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| 04:36 | <Merwin> To the LTSP server
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| 04:36 | <Hyperbyte> Merwin, then that page is for you, yes.
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| 04:36 | <Merwin> andygraybeal: "I'm readong" ;)
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| 04:36 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 04:36 | <andygraybeal> oh yea, dual nic setup :)
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| 04:36 | Selveste1 (~Selveste1@88.83.86.20.static.dong.customer.smilecontent.dk) joined #ltsp. | |
| 04:37 | <Hyperbyte> My terminal server only has one NIC, I connect all clients via our main router.
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| 04:37 | <andygraybeal> Hyperbyte, weirdo
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| 04:37 | <Hyperbyte> Why? =)
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| 04:37 | <andygraybeal> just kidding.. i dunno why i said that
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| 04:37 | <Hyperbyte> Hahah
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| 04:38 | It's easiest, if you already have a router in your network. =)
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| 04:38 | <andygraybeal> Merwin, if you want to print from firefox.. your gonna need to install cups in the chroot also
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| 04:39 | that's why .. for me.. it's easiest to use fatties and not localapps
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| 04:39 | so much extra config for localapps.. and it's totally awkward
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| 04:40 | <Gnoze5> (did i just coin the term fatties?)
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| 04:40 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 04:40 | *follows suite
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| 04:40 | check irc logs :)
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| 04:42 | <Merwin> It works fine, thank you ;)
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| 04:42 | <andygraybeal> rawk!!! \o/ !!
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| 04:42 | <Merwin> Do you know why the FF theme is ulgy ?
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| 04:42 | (King of no-themed gtk)
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| 04:42 | kind*
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| 04:43 | <andygraybeal> cause you need to install like gtk theme.. or something.. it's huge and it may not work... your kinda stuck
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| 04:43 | it's rediculous becuase you might as well run fat clients at that point.. cause it makes your client image hugemongous
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| 04:43 | <Merwin> humf :/
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| 04:43 | <andygraybeal> yea, i thuoght the same thing.. how much memory do your clients have?
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| 04:44 | <Merwin> But you can't look a video in youtube correctly without forefox running as al ocalapp
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| 04:44 | 512M
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| 04:44 | <andygraybeal> ah 512..
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| 04:44 | just forget the theme in ff
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| 04:44 | it's okay :)
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| 04:44 | <Gnoze5> Merwin: you can but you will hog server resources like there is no tmrw..
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| 04:45 | btw
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| 04:45 | firefox alternatives?
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| 04:45 | anyone better at managing ram?
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| 04:45 | <andygraybeal> dillo?
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| 04:46 | <andygraybeal> our fearless leader has joined!
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| 04:46 | we need like an anthem or something
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| 04:47 | <alkisg> "I'm a poor lonesome teacher" would do :P
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| 04:47 | * andygraybeal queues the valkyre | |
| 04:49 | <Gnoze5> i mean its hard to believe that there isnt a decent browser for linux that doesnt hog memory..
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| 04:49 | <andygraybeal> dillo !
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| 04:49 | <alkisg> Is there one for other OSes?
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| 04:49 | <Gnoze5> alkisg: i had a feeling you would say that
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| 04:49 | <andygraybeal> http://www.dillo.org/
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| 04:49 | <alkisg> Flash by itself needs a few hundend MB RAM...
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| 04:50 | <andygraybeal> isn't dillo supposed to be awesome :)
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| 04:50 | <Gnoze5> alkisg: flash needs to die
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| 04:50 | * alkisg will be the first to throw the stone if he's given the chance :D | |
| 04:51 | <Gnoze5> flahs got famous for all the wrong reasons
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| 04:51 | <alkisg> Gnoze5: so anyway, the lowest non-ltsp descent surfing I did was with tinycorelinux + opera 8.5, with 128 MB RAM.
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| 04:52 | <andygraybeal> nice
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| 04:52 | <Gnoze5> alkisg: what was the lowest LTSP decent surfing you did?
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| 04:52 | <andygraybeal> did yuo try dillo?
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| 04:52 | <alkisg> With 64 mb ram, but not with localapps
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| 04:52 | <Gnoze5> andygraybeal: dillo is a bad name , i keep reading dildo
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| 04:52 | <alkisg> Dillo is super light but it doesn't provide descent browsing :)
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| 04:53 | <andygraybeal> Gnoze5, haha awesome ..... we have dill bread here at the restaurant, and before you cook it.. it's dill dough :)
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| 04:53 | <Gnoze5> alkisg: whats a good balance?
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| 04:53 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, aah no decent browsing
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| 04:53 | <alkisg> How much ram on the client?
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| 04:53 | 512?
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| 04:53 | 256?
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| 04:53 | <Gnoze5> lowest 256
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| 04:53 | average 512
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| 04:53 | max 2
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| 04:54 | <alkisg> With 256 I wouldn't use localapps
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| 04:54 | With 512, I'd put any browser + flash locally.
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| 04:54 | <Gnoze5> i tried firefox on our t5630 locally and it wasnt awesome..
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| 04:54 | flash was clearly slow
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| 04:54 | 512 + eden 1gz
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| 04:54 | Ghz
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| 04:54 | <alkisg> Local flash speed is limited by cpu + graphics card
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| 04:55 | But at least in that case it doesn't hog the network
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| 04:55 | <Gnoze5> alkisg: yeah
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| 04:55 | alkisg: is the problem really the network?
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| 04:55 | <alkisg> network and server cpu.
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| 04:55 | <Gnoze5> alkisg: the problem i saw was actually the resources on the server side
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| 04:55 | <alkisg> Both for flash
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| 04:55 | Resources? E.g. RAM or disk shouldn't matter
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| 04:55 | Just cpu
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| 04:55 | <Gnoze5> really?
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| 04:55 | interesting.
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| 04:55 | i thought ram was crucial
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| 04:56 | is there a way to optimize ffox + flash that i ahvent figured?
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| 04:56 | <alkisg> Usually people have enough RAM on the server so that no swapping occurs...
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| 04:56 | <Gnoze5> yeah swapping is the killer
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| 04:56 | <alkisg> Well for youtube there are some greasemonkey extensions that replace flash with vlc or mplayer plugins
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| 04:57 | <Gnoze5> yesterday i tested 10 clients on one server with 2GB
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| 04:57 | <alkisg> Those use e.g. 5% cpu instead of the 50% that flash uses
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| 04:57 | <Gnoze5> (i use vms to simulate cleints btw)
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| 04:57 | and RAM was the mainc oncern
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| 04:57 | <alkisg> Well if you loaded 10 VMs with what, 512 ram, it would take 5 Gb RAM
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| 04:57 | Just for the VMs, not for LTSP
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| 04:58 | <Gnoze5> yeah but i have a big virtualization server for testing
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| 04:58 | its seperate from the ltsp server
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| 04:58 | <alkisg> OK let me put it another way - for 1 year I worked on a lab with 10 clients where the ltsp server had 1 Gb RAM
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| 04:59 | Then I upgraded to 3. Saw a small difference, but nothing crucial.
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| 04:59 | <Gnoze5> alkisg: 512 ram clients? local app ffox + flash?
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| 04:59 | <alkisg> No, plain thin clients using the server RAM
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| 04:59 | 128 MB RAM each
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| 04:59 | <Gnoze5> what kind of usage?
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| 05:00 | <alkisg> School usage. Openoffice, surfing, drawing etc
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| 05:00 | <Gnoze5> surfing without flash?
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| 05:00 | <alkisg> With flash
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| 05:00 | And youtube and other sites that the students visit
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| 05:01 | <Gnoze5> did you use the flash substitutes in those cases?
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| 05:02 | <alkisg> No they didn't exist at that time
| |
| 05:02 | Of course flash wasn't fast
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| 05:02 | <Gnoze5> alkisg: are there downsides to them? because otherwise i cant see why we wouldnt do it
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| 05:02 | <alkisg> Yes, e.g. sometimes youtube changes its internal format and you need to wait for the extension update for it to work again
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| 05:03 | <Gnoze5> annoying
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| 05:03 | <alkisg> Or in some cases seeking doesn't work
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| 05:03 | Yup, flash sucks
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| 05:03 | You can also try html5 in youtube with google chrome
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| 05:03 | (not firefox not chromium)
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| 05:03 | <Gnoze5> yeah html5 is the future
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| 05:04 | <alkisg> In some content it uses *much* less cpu due to their decoder
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| 05:04 | <Gnoze5> all our development has been done with html5 in mind
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| 05:04 | <alkisg> In other cases it's just as bad (cpu wise) as flash
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| 05:04 | <Gnoze5> anyway alkisg for testing purposes we have been using xmacro
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| 05:04 | to simulate user activity
| |
| 05:04 | do you have any other way of doing that?
| |
| 05:05 | <alkisg> No, when I want to test i just run specific scripts, like e.g. "play that video" or "open that website"
| |
| 05:06 | <Gnoze5> yeah its what i thought
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| 05:06 | but i actually ask one of our devs to start working on a dynamic way of testing
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| 05:06 | we'll share once we have something decent
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| 05:06 | ogra_ (~ogra@p5098ed03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Excess Flood | |
| 05:06 | <alkisg> Nice, I'd rather have something completely measurable like x11perf
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| 05:06 | ogra_ (~ogra@p5098ed03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:07 | <alkisg> E.g. "for playing this specific divx, so much bandwidth was needed, so much cpu on the server, so much cpu on each client"
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| 05:07 | <Gnoze5> yeah I totally understand
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| 05:07 | we have a few performance freaks in the team
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| 05:07 | so im sure we'll find a way
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| 05:07 | <alkisg> I've done my share of benchmarking, if you ever need feedback ping me
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| 05:08 | E.g. the formula for XV accelerated video vs non accelerated etc
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| 05:08 | <Gnoze5> you know I will lol
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| 05:08 | <alkisg> (bandwidth)
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| 05:09 | <mgariepy> good morning everyone
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| 05:09 | <Gnoze5> good morrow mgariepy
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| 05:09 | <alkisg> Hi mgariepy
| |
| 05:09 | Instead of xmacro I've used xte on some cases, but they look similar
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| 05:09 | <Gnoze5> i wasnt impressed with xmacro
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| 05:10 | but it served a pre-testing purpose
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| 05:10 | with a bit of hacking
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| 05:10 | anyway time for evil meetings and such
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| 05:10 | ttys people
| |
| 05:10 | thanks again alkisg
| |
| 05:10 | <alkisg> np
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| 05:10 | mlky (~mlky@nat1.semler.dk) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:10 | <mlky> oh hai gais
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| 05:15 | <andygraybeal> evil meetings
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| 05:15 | hi mlky :)
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| 05:17 | <highvoltage> u/win 26
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| 05:21 | <mlky> can someone help me use my existing tftpd server to boot into my ltsp server which is on the same network
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| 05:21 | linking to docs will be fine :P
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| 05:26 | Gnoze5 (4fa86f05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.168.111.5) left irc: Quit: Page closed | |
| 05:26 | <Hyperbyte> Why would you want to use an existing TFTP server?
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| 05:31 | <Appiah> mlky: move the files to the that server
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| 05:31 | change the dhcp option next-server that points out the server
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| 05:32 | you just need to tell to dhcp server to look at "existingserver"
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| 05:39 | <dyllan> hi guys. I made such a rookie error I accidentally deleted my /opt/ltsp/i386 directory I thought I was on a different server and was going to run the sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 command. Im so pissed off as this is a production environment im such an a-hole.
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| 05:39 | <mlky> Hyperbyte, here at work we already have a tftp server with images for installing new pc's, wouldnt i be able to have an image on that tftp server that boots to my ltsp server?
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| 05:39 | <dyllan> What kinda problems am i going to run into. Should i rebuild it with: sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
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| 05:39 | :(
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| 05:40 | <Merwin> Hey, I've set LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS to 'firefox', but launching firefox from the menu doesn't start it as a local app
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| 05:40 | I have to run ltsp-localapp firefox in console for it to work
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| 05:41 | Any clue? From what I read into the wiki, it hsould work like this (I checked that firefox.desktop is placed in usr/share/applications)
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| 05:42 | <Merwin> hum wait, not sure I saved :D
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| 05:46 | Nope, it does work. Now, all me ubuntu theme has been disabled but firefox isn't run as a localapp
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| 05:46 | <mlky> Appiah, where do i tell what to what?
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| 05:46 | i have no control over our dhcp server, i have access to the tftpd server and ltsp server
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| 05:47 | <alkisg> mlky: tftp is only for the kernel. Then NBD or NFS is used. So no, you cannot use *only* your existing server, you also need the ltsp server. And if you need the ltsp server anyway, why not also use its tftp server, instead of transfering the kernel to your tftp server on each update?
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| 05:47 | drdata (~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:50 | <mlky> what exactly are you suggesting i do? im not sure i follow, how can i get users to pxe boot to my ltsp server with what i have to work wit
| |
| 05:50 | h
| |
| 05:50 | ?
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| 05:51 | bobby_C (~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #ltsp. | |
| 05:51 | <alkisg> mlky: how do your users currently select which image they want to load? With a pxe menu?
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| 05:51 | Or you select that on a per client basis with dhcpd.conf?
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| 05:53 | <mlky> pxe menu
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| 05:54 | <alkisg> Erm sorry didn't ask correctly, there's a difference between "pxe menu" and "pxelinux menu"
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| 05:55 | For pure pxe menu (pxe=protocol, dnsmasq supports it) you can directly specify the tftp server there
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| 05:55 | For pxelinux, you should ask in the #syslinux channel, on how to specify a different tftp server
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| 05:55 | (that should be just 1 line in the pxelinux.cfg/default file)
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| 05:56 | <mlky> hm, i believe its pxelinux
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| 05:56 | <alkisg> I believe so too, not many people use plain pxe menus
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| 05:57 | <mlky> its tftpd32.exe running on winxp, yrk
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| 05:57 | :((
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| 05:57 | right, thank you, i will ask for help in #syslinux channel
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| 05:57 | <alkisg> It doesn't matter, ask in #syslinux on how to chain to a different tftp server
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| 05:58 | And then if you want notify here as well :D
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| 05:58 | <mlky> depends if i get an answer before im off from work :P
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| 05:58 | <Merwin> andygraybeal: Running firefox on youtube video as a localapp take around 120Mb/512Mb it's correct
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| 05:58 | <andygraybeal> sounds right, i have no idea though alkisg and others know better :)
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| 05:59 | i think it really depends what your doing
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| 05:59 | <Merwin> Yeah of course, ther's just one open tab ;)
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| 06:00 | <andygraybeal> Merwin, yea, if your asking if that sounds right, then it sounds right :)
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| 06:00 | <Merwin> Anyway I still can't start FF as a localapp from the gnome menu :/
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| 06:00 | <andygraybeal> aah you need to add it to the menu!! let me find the HTML ... hOLD
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| 06:00 | it's in lts.conf
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| 06:00 | <Merwin> I did it
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| 06:00 | <Merwin> Hey, I've set LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS to 'firefox', but launching firefox from the menu doesn't start it as a local app
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| 06:00 | <Merwin> I have to run ltsp-localapp firefox in console for it to work
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| 06:01 | <andygraybeal> oh oh ohoh oh
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| 06:01 | well.. obviously you updated your image.. hmmm...
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| 06:01 | <Merwin> yep
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| 06:01 | alkisg1 (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp. | |
| 06:02 | <andygraybeal> wait for someone else to answer, i don't know the answer
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| 06:02 | sorry
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| 06:02 | <Merwin> Ok, thanks ;)
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| 06:02 | <andygraybeal> Hyperbyte, get back here
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| 06:02 | <Merwin> :p
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| 06:03 | Nick change: alkisg1 -> alkisg | |
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| 06:06 | <andygraybeal> throw your lts.conf into a pastebin and paste the url just to seee what is up
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| 06:06 | it probably won't help, but i don't know what else to do (i'm not very good at this yet)
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| 06:07 | <Merwin> I don't have an lts.conf because I'm using ltsp cluster :D
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| 06:07 | The configuration is done via a web interface
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| 06:07 | <andygraybeal> oh.. i never have done this
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| 06:07 | <Merwin> (You can define per-computer lts.conf, etc)
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| 06:08 | <andygraybeal> have no idea
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| 06:08 | Nick change: alkisg1 -> alkisg | |
| 06:09 | <Hyperbyte> andygraybeal?
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| 06:09 | <andygraybeal> Hyperbyte, hey Merwin can't get his firefox to run from the menu, but it works from xterm; can you help? he's got the config set to menu in lts.conf
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| 06:09 | <Hyperbyte> Merwin, I've never used LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS
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| 06:09 | <andygraybeal> i was just being obnoxious :)
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
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| 06:10 | <andygraybeal> yes yes yes; that too!
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| 06:10 | <Hyperbyte> I've always created a launcher on the host computer that executed "ltsp-localapps <program>"
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| 06:10 | <andygraybeal> see it's all on ubuntu documentation
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| 06:10 | Gadi (~romm@ool-18bbe47a.static.optonline.net) joined #ltsp. | |
| 06:10 | <andygraybeal> under LTSP
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> No need for LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS unless you want to *restrict* the items that show up in the menus
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| 06:10 | <Hyperbyte> Ah, so the easiest is what I did, and create launchers for it?
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| 06:11 | <andygraybeal> Hyperbyte, you did it the hard way :)
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| 06:11 | <Hyperbyte> :O
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| 06:11 | I found it quite easy already. :P
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| 06:11 | Hehe
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| 06:11 | Hey hey hey mr. Gadi! Just the one I've been looking for. :-) (in a positive way of course)
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| 06:11 | Could I borrow a minute of your precious time? :)
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| 06:12 | <Gadi> cant tiptoe into this chatroom....
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| 06:12 | Hyperbyte: sup?
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| 06:12 | <Hyperbyte> Hahahah
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| 06:12 | <dberkholz> Gadi: the trick is to always be "here", so people never know when you're really around
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| 06:12 | <Hyperbyte> I've been told you're the xrandr wizard. *points at Alkisg*
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| 06:12 | <Merwin> alkisg: But LOCAL_APPS_MENU will enable all the applications as local apps?
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| 06:13 | <Hyperbyte> I have blurry second displays with the LTSP Term 1720 thin client (Intel GMA 950 graphics)
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| 06:13 | They're in the correct resolution, correct refresh rate (as far as I can tell), there's no distortion on the cable
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| 06:14 | Any idea what else could cause this? :)
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| 06:14 | <Gadi> has alkisg asked you to post the output of xrandr and the Xorg log file to pastebin?
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| 06:14 | <alkisg> Merwin: only those that you installed, i.e. those in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/applications/
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| 06:14 | <Hyperbyte> Gadi, no. :P
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| 06:14 | <alkisg> Liar :)
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| 06:14 | <Gadi> im surprised
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| 06:14 | :)
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| 06:15 | <Hyperbyte> Gadi, one moment. :)
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| 06:16 | <alkisg> Merwin: again, to be clear: for local apps to show up in the gnome menus, you *always* need LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True, and depending on your use case, you *may* need LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS.
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| 06:17 | <andygraybeal> dberkholz, hah :)
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| 06:17 | <Hyperbyte> Gadi: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/xrandr.txt
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| 06:18 | Gadi: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/xorglog.txt
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| 06:19 | Gadi: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/ltsp-term-1720-displays/comparison.jpg (display on the right is VGA, and is a bit unsharp)
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| 06:19 | <Gadi> looks like you are setting your horzsync and vertrefresh?
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| 06:20 | <Hyperbyte> Not really actually
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| 06:20 | It's --auto
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| 06:20 | <Gadi> [ 1503.941] (II) intel(0): Using hsync ranges from config file [ 1503.941] (II) intel(0): Using vrefresh ranges from config file
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| 06:20 | can you paste your lts.conf?
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| 06:21 | <Hyperbyte> I can, but there's only X_BLANKING=120 and X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 in there, regarding X options
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| 06:21 | <Gadi> hmm...
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| 06:21 | <Hyperbyte> There is a hack from diskless workstations in the Xorg.conf, but that only disables LVDS1
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| 06:22 | <Gadi> on the thin client, can you check the contents of /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
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| 06:22 | (yeah, you may need to disable the TV1 output, if you are not using it, but lets explore)
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| 06:22 | <Merwin> alkisg: Thanks, I will test ;)
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| 06:24 | <Hyperbyte> Gadi: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/ltsp-xorg-conf.txt
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| 06:25 | <Gadi> fair enough - oh, and you arent going thru any converters of any kind, right?
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| 06:25 | DVI->VGA, etc
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| 06:25 | <Hyperbyte> No sir.
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| 06:27 | <Gadi> does the VGA monitor itself have a "sharpen" feature in the monitor menu?
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| 06:27 | sometimes, the monitor itself overcorrects
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| 06:27 | <Hyperbyte> Nope. It happens with all screens connected to the VGA output as far as I can tell, about six different screens
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| 06:28 | I also reset all monitor settings, but that doesn't help.
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| 06:29 | I also have two screens which are identical, and when I switch them around (from DVI to VGA and VGA to DVI) the fuzzyness goes on on the other screen. So I'm assuming it's pre-monitor.
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| 06:29 | I've also checked to see if the VGA cable doesn't run close to power connectors in my setup, which it didn't, except for the main power on the LTSP Term 1720. That connector is right below the VGA connector.
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| 06:30 | Don't think 11 watt is enough to interfere with the VGA signal though.
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| 06:30 | <Gadi> so, u mean VGA is always fuzzy
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| 06:30 | even when you switch monitors
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| 06:31 | (keep in mind, VGA by its very nature is less sharp than DVI)
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| 06:31 | <Hyperbyte> Well yeah, but we've been using VGA screens for years
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| 06:31 | And then suddenly I switch to LTSP terminals and it isn't sharp enough anymore... that seems a bit strange
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| 06:32 | <Gadi> right
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| 06:32 | ok, one sec
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| 06:33 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 06:37 | <Gadi> out of curiosity, can you open a terminal and type: xrandr --output TV1 --off
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| 06:38 | oh, one other thing - do you know what the native resolution of the monitor is?
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| 06:38 | once upon a time, you could set a monitor to any resolution and expect decent results
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| 06:39 | these days, it seems, if you use anything but the monitor's native or preferred resolution, all bets are off
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| 06:39 | :)
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| 06:40 | <Hyperbyte> Identical displays: http://local.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/ltsp-term-1720-displays/modes.jpg
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| 06:40 | (that picture is out of focus by the way, in case you're wondering)
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| 06:40 | xrandr --output TV1 --off seems to have no effect
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| 06:41 | Waits for a second or two and then drops back to prompt. Presumably it turned TV1 off, but nothing visible happened
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| 06:42 | <Gadi> wait, that screenshot says 1650x1080, but you are driving neither monitor that way
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| 06:42 | <Hyperbyte> Sorry
| |
| 06:42 | The logs I posted is from different monitors. =)
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| 06:43 | That's not smart from me. But regardless, they are running in their native resolution.
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| 06:43 | <Gadi> but, is 1680x1050 the native resolution of the monitor?
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| 06:43 | <Hyperbyte> Of that one, yes. The logs I sent you should be 1980x1200 and 1280x1024 I think.
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| 06:44 | <Gadi> what happens if you drive them at 1680x1050?
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| 06:44 | does the blurriness go away?
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| 06:47 | <Hyperbyte> Sorry, I'm confusing you
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| 06:47 | The picture I sent you is from a different system, with two 22" screens
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| 06:47 | Also blurry
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| 06:48 | The logs and config I fetched for you just now are from a workstation nearer to me, which has two screens with native resolutions 1920x1200 and 1280x1024
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| 06:48 | Basically... forget the picture. :)
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| 06:48 | <Gadi> :)
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| 06:48 | does it get better if you don't force the color depth?
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| 06:49 | <Hyperbyte> So remove X_COLOR_DEPTH from lts.conf?
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| 06:49 | <Gadi> yeah - or comment it out
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| 06:50 | <Hyperbyte> Means I gotta reboot the client, one moment. :)
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| 06:55 | <Hyperbyte> Results are in
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| 06:55 | I think it has improved
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| 06:56 | My boss isn't sure, he finds the colors bland (but I think he's just too used to his 22" LED display)
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| 06:56 | Heh
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| 06:56 | And secretary who was complaining earlier about screen being fuzzy isn't sure
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| 06:56 | I hate problems that are difficult to measure. :|
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| 06:57 | <Hyperbyte> I'm gonna have to rebuild a test client with two identical screens
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| 07:01 | Okay... back to my test client with two identical 22" screens
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| 07:01 | Can safely say the VGA screen is still fuzzy as ever
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| 07:02 | When you put it next to the DVI it's a dead giveaway.
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| 07:03 | Nick change: alkisg1 -> alkisg | |
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| 07:51 | <Gadi> Hyperbyte: out of curiosity, can it be corrected at all by adjusting settings in: System > Preferences > Appearance : Fonts?
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| 08:09 | <Hyperbyte> Gadi, I'm gonna have to get back to you on that :)
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| 08:09 | Time for me to leave and enjoy 3 days out-of-office. :)
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| 08:09 | Thanks for all your help!
| |
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| 08:26 | <andygraybeal> 3 day vacation !!!! never
| |
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| 09:13 | <Hyperbyte> Well, "vacation"
| |
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| 09:13 | <Hyperbyte> Tomorrow I have a day filled with coaching and workshops
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| 09:14 | After that it's a national day off, some religious holiday... although I will be working actually, because a day that nobody else works is opportunity for me to kill and/or reboot some servers
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| 09:14 | And friday I do have a day off. :)
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| 09:14 | <Gnoze5> gentlmen
| |
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| 09:35 | <andygraybeal> coaching and workshops
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| 09:41 | nice
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| 09:42 | Hyperbyte, nice :)
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| 09:46 | jcbm (~chatzilla@186.5.54.218) joined #ltsp. | |
| 09:46 | <jcbm> Hello everybody
| |
| 09:46 | I have some troubles with USB devices when they're plugged on the clients
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| 09:48 | is there someone that can help me please?
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> jcbm: describe your problem as well as you can, and then wait for some time for answers
| |
| 09:49 | Not all people constantly watch the channel, so one might answer you e.g. after half an hour
| |
| 09:49 | <jcbm> ok, thanks alkisg
| |
| 09:49 | I'm working with Edubuntu 11.04 and LTSP
| |
| 09:50 | Everything goes ok, but I need to connect RFID usb devices on the clients but they're not recognized on it
| |
| 09:51 | if I connect the rfid usb on the server it works fine, but not in the clients
| |
| 09:51 | please your help
| |
| 09:53 | <Hyperbyte> What do you want to do with the RFID USB devices?
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| 09:54 | <andygraybeal> (i would love it to do inventory with... but this is a dream.. and will never happen!)
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| 09:54 | <jcbm> The RFID USB devices sense cards to open or close doors
| |
| 09:55 | <Hyperbyte> No, I mean, technically.
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| 09:56 | What program do they interface with, how do they interface with it, and where does the program run (client or server) and why there?
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| 09:56 | Basically...
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| 09:56 | I'll explain a bit more along the lines which I'm thinking
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| 09:56 | <jcbm> ok
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| 09:56 | <Hyperbyte> LTSP clients support USB to server, but this works via filesystem mount.
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| 09:56 | <jcbm> on each client we have a software developed on Java
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| 09:56 | <Hyperbyte> Meaning, if the USB device doesn't have a filesystem, LTSP won't make it available on the server.
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| 09:57 | Go on. :)
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| 09:58 | ...? :)
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| 09:58 | <jcbm> this software manage the USB device (RFID), it reads the information sent by RFID device
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| 09:58 | <Hyperbyte> Okay...
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| 09:58 | <jcbm> and in some cases
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| 09:59 | the information is sent to another app that uses a database to storage the records
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| 09:59 | <Hyperbyte> And the java software runs on the terminal server, right?
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| 09:59 | <jcbm> it runs on each client
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| 10:00 | <Hyperbyte> Ah, so you're not actually trying to get the USB device working from client to server or vice versa?
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| 10:00 | Just on the clients, with localapps?
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| 10:00 | <jcbm> no
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| 10:01 | the software works fine
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| 10:01 | but, my problem is the usb devices
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| 10:01 | ther're not recognized
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| 10:01 | on the client
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| 10:02 | <Hyperbyte> What does dmesg say about it? (use pastebin)
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| 10:03 | <jcbm> dmesg says nothing, it seems like the usb is not present
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| 10:03 | <Hyperbyte> What if you disconnect the device, plug it in again, and then look at dmesg?
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| 10:03 | There should be something in the last few lines about it
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| 10:03 | <jcbm> but if I connect a storage usb device it works fine
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| 10:03 | the problem is with RFID USB
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| 10:03 | ok let me check again
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| 10:04 | <Hyperbyte> I understand you, but you're gonna have to start by looking to see if the device is recognised, and how it is recognised
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| 10:04 | dmesg will tell you taht.
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| 10:05 | <jcbm> ok, i'm gonna chec it again
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| 10:07 | <Hyperbyte> If you disconnect and then reconnect the device, you can make sure the last lines in dmesg are about the device
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| 10:09 | <Gnoze5> hm
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| 10:09 | i just got one of those intel 510 integrated atom boards
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| 10:09 | with 1 GB ram
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| 10:09 | pretty cool for a terminal
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| 10:10 | the actual itx case
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| 10:10 | is more expensive than all of the components
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| 10:10 | <jcbm> Sorry, when i plug it on the client dmesg says nothing
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| 10:12 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, shouldn't dmesg *always* say something when you plug in a USB device?
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> No idea, but `udevadm -monitor` can be used to monitor usb events
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| 10:13 | <Hyperbyte> Okay, try that then. :)
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| 10:13 | * alkisg hasn't read what you guys are talking about though :D | |
| 10:13 | <Hyperbyte> udevadm -monitor and then plug in the USB device
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| 10:13 | alkisg, USB RFID reader not recognized on client
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| 10:13 | <alkisg> That on a local terminal, right?
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| 10:13 | <Hyperbyte> Ho, yeah, that's a good one. This all needs to happen on a local terminal, on the client. If you were doing it on the server, then it makes sense dmesg is empty.
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| 10:14 | <jcbm> yes on a local terminal
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| 10:14 | <Hyperbyte> Okay, try the udevadm thing then.
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| 10:15 | See if that reacts to the USB device being disconnected/reconnected
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| 10:15 | <jcbm> oki, i monitor with udevadm
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| 10:15 | but it not recognize again
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| 10:15 | <Gnoze5> I have to find a 30 euro case because then we have a 70 euro client with a gma 3150 1GB ram and an Atom 1.6, not bad
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| 10:16 | <alkisg> jcbm: I just quickly read what you wrote - are you trying to use a local usb device, *not* a file system, from a java app running *not* as a localapp? (i.e. it's running on the server?)
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| 10:16 | If so, it won't work, only file systems are supported
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| 10:16 | (with ltspfsd)
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| 10:16 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, the java app is running on the client.
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| 10:17 | <alkisg> Is that certain? jcbm did you configure java to run as a localapp?
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| 10:17 | <jcbm> yes, but my first step is to have a /dev/ttyUSB0 working
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| 10:17 | but i don't have it, so the sw cannnot work without that device
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| 10:17 | <alkisg> jcbm: this is the critical question: did you configure java to run as a localapp?
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| 10:17 | <jcbm> yes
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| 10:18 | but again, my first problem is not the software
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| 10:18 | <Hyperbyte> I agree that the first step is getting the client to react to the USB connection. Even if it's an error, it should react in some form. What does udevadm say?
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| 10:18 | <jcbm> my problem is get gorking the rfid usb device
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| 10:18 | <alkisg> If the software is not running as a localapp, then it's running on the server, and that's why you don't see the device
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| 10:18 | jcbm: so, that's what you need to look first.
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| 10:18 | <jcbm> yes that's the problem
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> jcbm: can you paste your lts.conf ?
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| 10:19 | <jcbm> ok
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> (to pastebin)
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| 10:19 | <Hyperbyte> !pastebin
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> Bot's been away for months :(
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| 10:19 | <Hyperbyte> Oh
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| 10:19 | Why? :)
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> Good question :)
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| 10:19 | <Hyperbyte> I could host it, if that's the problem.
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| 10:20 | <alkisg> I'm not sure what the problem is
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| 10:21 | <highvoltage> I guess the problem is that something went wrong (probably not a big problem) and scotty just been too busy to start it up / fix it again
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| 10:23 | <jcbm> http://pastebin.com/DBSuAema
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| 10:24 | there's my lts.conf
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> jcbm: and how do you start your app? From the gnome menu?
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| 10:25 | <jcbm> from console
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> OK, start it, and then run ps -ef, and put the result to pastebin.
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| 10:26 | So that we can verify if it runs on the client or on the server
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| 10:27 | (to run it as a localapp, you'd need to run `ltsp-localapps xterm`, and then on *that* console to start java)
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| 10:27 | (or to create a .desktop file for that)
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| 10:29 | <jcbm> ok thats for the software
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| 10:29 | but for example
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| 10:30 | when i work on the server
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| 10:30 | i connect the usb device
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| 10:30 | and it's recognized inmediatly, i can see a /dev/ttyUSB0 device created
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| 10:31 | but when i repeat that's steps on the client /dev/ttyUSB0 is not present
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| 10:31 | <alkisg> jcbm: I think you don't realise what localapps are
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| 10:31 | Try this:
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| 10:31 | (while sitting on the client)
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| 10:31 | ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 10:31 | This will get you a *local* terminal
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| 10:32 | There, run: udevadm monitor
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| 10:32 | And plug your device
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| 10:32 | You should see both the events and the /dev/ttyUSB0 then
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| 10:33 | <jcbm> ok, wait a minute i have a problem with udevadm on that enviroment
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| 10:33 | <alkisg> Your problem probably is that you're trying to see /dev/ttyUSB0 on the server, not on the client.
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| 10:33 | Which distro/version is it?
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| 10:34 | <jcbm> edubuntu 11.04
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> | |
| 10:34 | What problems are you having with udevadm?
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| 10:34 | <jcbm> ohh ok
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| 10:34 | i saw it
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| 10:35 | the /dev/ttyUSB0 is present
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| 10:35 | explain me something, whereis that device located on the server?
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| 10:35 | <alkisg> It isn't available on the server
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| 10:36 | LTSP doesn't forward any usb devices. Only usb file systems.
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| 10:36 | <jcbm> ok i understand, so, how can i call for it from the app
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> You need to install the app as a localapp
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| 10:37 | <jcbm> the app is just a folder
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> So that it runs locally on the client, not on the server
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| 10:37 | <jcbm> is not a binary packet or something like that
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> Install java on your chroot and any other dependencies required by your app
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| 10:37 | Then copy that folder to your chroot
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| 10:38 | Then make a /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/applications/myapp.desktop file
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| 10:38 | <jcbm> wowww, thanks
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| 10:38 | i will try this now
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> And finally run ltsp-update-image and set LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True in lts.conf
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| 10:39 | <jcbm> thanks alkisg
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 10:39 | <jcbm> i will comment you
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| 10:39 | my advaces
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| 10:39 | advances
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| 10:43 | <Gnoze5> alkisg I keep reading channel logs where you provide the answers lol
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| 12:14 | <andygraybeal> he's awesome!
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| 16:15 | <Gnoze5> yo
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| 19:25 | <joulez> hi
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| 19:25 | does ltsp work with mounting a mtpfs device?
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| 00:00 | --- Wed Jun 1 2011 | |