IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 28 December 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:28 | <jimjimovich> hi guys
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| 01:29 | i forgot how to turn off the pretty boot on the terminals and have it show all the debugging info, could someone remind me?
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| 01:30 | never mind, i found it ;)
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| 01:32 | <ponny_> oh damnit..now nothing works:)
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| 01:44 | <jimjimovich> any ideas why a terminal would have a kernel panic while booting the ntf-top script?
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| 04:36 | <honey-badger> hey there
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| 04:37 | i need help as m facing some serious problems while dealing with 82845G cards on my clients
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| 04:39 | i Tried XSERVER = i810 in lts.conf but this doen't solve issue. as i got message when user log in "GPU Hung"
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| 04:42 | <muppis_> honey-badger, looks like your GPU can't handle 3D -effects. Have you disabled compiz?
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| 04:42 | <honey-badger> muppis_: i guess you are rite
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| 04:43 | muppis_ is now known as muppis | |
| 04:43 | <honey-badger> i haven't disabled
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| 04:43 | <muppis> !disable_compiz
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| 04:43 | <ltspbot`> muppis: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 04:43 | <muppis> Try that.
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| 04:43 | It disables it for all clients.
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| 04:43 | <honey-badger> hmmm let check it
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| 04:43 | thanks buddy brb
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| 04:55 | <ponny_> ok now im highly confused
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| 04:55 | I enabled local apps in lts.conf
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| 04:55 | followed a howto
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| 04:55 | but i dont have a ltsp-localapps?
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| 04:58 | oh im retarded..nevermind
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| 05:56 | <ponny_> hmmm
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| 06:11 | <ponny_> did i miss something if ltsp-localapps was missing on my system?
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| 06:12 | im sure i didnt remove it:)
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| 06:12 | it should be in /examples i guess
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| 06:12 | <muppis> What says: dpkg -S ltsp-localapps
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| 06:12 | <ponny_> well, not found
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| 06:13 | <muppis> Then: apt-cache policy ltsp-server
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| 06:14 | <ponny_> ltsp-server:
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| 06:14 | Installed: 5.1.10-2
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| 06:14 | Candidate: 5.1.10-2
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| 06:14 | Version table:
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| 06:14 | *** 5.1.10-2 0
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| 06:14 | 500 http://ftp.se.debian.org lenny/main Packages
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| 06:17 | <Appiah> hmm
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| 06:18 | on ubuntu it's on the ltsp-server package..
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| 06:18 | in*
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| 06:18 | <muppis> Debian packages search doesn't find it at all.
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| 06:19 | <ponny_> no howtos seem to mention it either
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| 06:19 | <Appiah> ltsp-localapp cant be a ubuntu thing only?
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| 06:19 | <ponny_> sounds weird if it is
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| 06:20 | <Appiah> "otherwise, you manually can start applications from the commandline by
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| 06:20 | prepending with the ltsp-localapps command.
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| 06:20 | "
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| 06:20 | so the lts.conf and editing there is the #1 way to enabling localapps
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| 06:20 | #2 is just ... debugging? :)
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| 06:21 | (as in running the ltsp-localapps command)
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| 06:21 | oh
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| 06:21 | it's in squeeze
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| 06:21 | but not in lenny
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| 06:21 | <ponny_> hm, i enabled it in lts.conf
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| 06:22 | <Appiah> so next debian version (testing) has the command
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| 06:22 | command/script
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| 06:22 | <ponny_> what does this famous ltsp-localapps contain? is it just a script?
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| 06:22 | okay
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| 06:22 | hm, wonder if i should just try a distupgrade then
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| 06:22 | <muppis> I think just try first install it from testing repo.
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| 06:23 | If you blindly fdo distupgrade, you propably brake something else.
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| 06:23 | *do
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| 06:25 | ponny_, it is script like this: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/vTbhEx3J
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| 06:27 | <ponny_> now ive got the localapps:)
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| 06:27 | thx!
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| 06:27 | time for testing
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| 06:27 | <muppis> I wonder why that's not backported to Lenny?
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| 06:28 | <ponny_> yeah,thats weird
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| 06:29 | or theres a reason for that and i will soon be aware of it:)
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| 06:29 | <muppis> :D
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| 06:33 | As I personally use Ubuntu (and we all know which distro Ubuntu is based..), I call Debian users as debianists, like being some kind of holics..
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| 06:34 | It's nothing personal, but sometimes I wonder why things are done so hardly.
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| 06:34 | <ponny_> well, im an old genoo user so i dont have anything to say here:D
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| 06:34 | <muppis> Like to obsession to tune.
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| 06:34 | <ponny_> *gentoo
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| 06:35 | we use debian on all servers at work, therefor also on this one
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| 06:36 | <muppis> We used to use Debian at servers, but when comes time to upgrade, we change to Ubuntu.
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| 06:36 | <ponny_> okay
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| 06:37 | some people seem to find it a bit "bloated"
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| 06:37 | but maybe thats not really the case?
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| 06:37 | i like when its clean and nice
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| 06:37 | i actually started out with edubuntu for this little server
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| 06:37 | but i didnt get it to work
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| 06:40 | <muppis> Is it bloated or not, is only point of view.
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| 06:41 | <ponny_> and to ubuntus defence, it didnt work because of me confuguring wrong:)
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| 06:41 | which i discovered after reinstalling debian
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| 06:42 | <muppis> Most cases ends up to misconfiguration. :)
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| 06:42 | <ponny_> yes:)
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| 06:42 | stupid sysadmins
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| 07:30 | <ponny_> oh that failed miserably
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| 07:30 | <robehend1> ?
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| 08:02 | <AndyGraybeal> hi, i think i've configured something awfully wrong as far as my NTP client is concerned. my thinclient's BIOS says it's 9:00am, but when i boot up LTSP the thinclient reads 4am. when i login to LTSP, the time is correct. I think i got something messed up somewhere. i'm EST -5 UTC. i think i'm confused with the settings, can someone help? In lts.conf i do have TIMESERVER=192.168.2.1 (which is the correct time server, which serve
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| 08:03 | it isn't really important, but it annoys the crap out of me.
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| 08:04 | i'll get something real done like rsync'ing my website so i have a backup.
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| 08:04 | <robehend1> AndyGraybeal: Mine does the same thing, though I've never really looked into it.
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| 08:04 | * AndyGraybeal ^5's robehend1 :) good to be in the same boat. | |
| 08:05 | <robehend1> was one of those "Well, it'd be nice to fix, but i've got 20 gazillion other things on the plate atm" things.
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| 08:05 | <AndyGraybeal> yea, i have about 40
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| 08:05 | well.. inside those 40.. are 20 gazillion things
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| 08:05 | <robehend1> im playing the 'waiting on Fedex' game today, for my new server. And then it turns into the 're-subnet a network and install 2 new servers in 2 days' game.
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| 08:06 | <AndyGraybeal> ack... what does re-subnetting a network entail?
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| 08:06 | that sounds like a headache.
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| 08:06 | <robehend1> mostly going to any m achine, printer, server, etc, that has a static IP, and changing the subnet mask manually
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| 08:07 | <AndyGraybeal> i got everything set to dhcp on my networks.... dhcp server decides if it gets a static address or not. i learned to do that around 2000/01.
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| 08:07 | <robehend1> i do that on my current networks, for sure. This is my last hold out of the old Tech
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| 08:08 | <AndyGraybeal> understood.
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| 08:08 | we had some printers that would only be able to be configurd oldsytleee bootp manual. what a pain.
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| 08:08 | <robehend1> its also when I get to get rid of the Win2k server thats still serving printers...*shudder*
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| 08:08 | ewww
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| 08:08 | <AndyGraybeal> hah i bet you get to reset the spooler often ;)
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| 08:08 | <robehend1> bah, i set a script to do it automatically every hour
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| 08:08 | <AndyGraybeal> amazing :)
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| 08:08 | i should do the same
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| 08:09 | <robehend1> sure, i lose some jobs, but woop de doo
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| 08:09 | i'd love to slap a CUPS server in there and be done with it, but getting all the windows drivers in there would be a nightmare
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| 08:10 | <AndyGraybeal> i got some strange print spooler on my windows boxes.. it's like some POS / epson technology... it doesn't run as a service... it drives me nuts.
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| 08:10 | <robehend1> it uses its own proprietory spooler? weird.
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| 08:10 | <AndyGraybeal> yea, its' totally evil. it runs Epson's ticket printers for the restaurant
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| 08:10 | lemme look it up
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| 08:11 | <robehend1> ah, restaurant printers. I've dealt with those before. never agian.
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| 08:12 | <AndyGraybeal> can't find the name quickly enough
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| 08:12 | <robehend1> not to worry. I've dealt with epson's craziness before
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| 08:12 | <AndyGraybeal> they ain't too bad... problem i got is we got them both serial and parrellel... i want to slap in eth nics.. but i'm afraid of the proprietary software will poop it's brains out if i do.
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| 08:12 | <robehend1> more than likely
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| 08:13 | <AndyGraybeal> but many respects go to serial; i am sad to see it slowly become a dinosaur.
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| 08:13 | i know it doesn't effect anyone these days, but i will be sad to see it become to old to use; in the future,
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| 08:14 | <AndyGraybeal> okay must get work done.
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| 08:14 | i finsihed my coffe :)
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| 08:14 | <robehend1> enjoy.
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| 08:23 | <ponny_> hm
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| 08:23 | everything works fine until i run update-image
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| 08:23 | <robehend1> whats breaking?
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| 08:25 | <ponny_> fails to boot, no /sbin/init
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| 08:27 | <robehend1> was it working before?
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| 08:30 | <ponny_> yes
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| 08:30 | then i chrooted and added xlite to local apps
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| 08:30 | updated and rebooted client
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| 08:31 | <robehend1> and now it wont boot? Weird. does it even begin to load up the img, or is the pxe stac itself crapping out on you
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| 08:53 | <ponny_> yes, it loads the image..then "loading kernel" and then stuck
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| 08:54 | <robehend1> weird..any messages in log files?
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| 08:54 | <ponny_> nope, just that client loaded image
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| 08:55 | im considering starting over
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| 08:55 | <robehend1> depending how much work you put into the image, might be quicker
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| 08:55 | or at least make another image, tell dhcp to boot to that, and see if it loads. make sure its just that one thats screwed up, and not the ltsp-update* or ltsp-build commands somehow
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| 08:55 | <ponny_> im rebuilding now
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| 08:56 | see what happens
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| 08:56 | damn, i really want this to work:)
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| 08:56 | planning on moving sales people to this
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| 08:56 | <robehend1> this xlite program you added before it went haywire..is it the instant messenging program?
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| 08:56 | or something else
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| 08:56 | <ponny_> its the sip client thing
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| 08:56 | <robehend1> ah, cool
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| 09:03 | <ponny_> so today im started out with sound problems, and now im back to not booting:D
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| 09:04 | <robehend1> heh. just think of it as job security
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| 09:04 | <ponny_> yes:)
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| 09:05 | <robehend1> at least, thats what I keep telling myself haha
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| 09:05 | <ponny_> people say its not possible to have sales use linux
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| 09:05 | i want to prove them wrong
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| 09:05 | <robehend1> pfft, its possible
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| 09:05 | what pbx are you hooking the SIP client up to?
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| 09:06 | <ponny_> think it will be opensip
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| 09:07 | <robehend1> nice. havent used it, but heard good things. I've been more of a Asterisk guy myself
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| 09:07 | <ponny_> we have tried that too
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| 09:07 | <robehend1> no luck?
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| 09:07 | <ponny_> i dont want to be involved in phone crap:D
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| 09:07 | dont know
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| 09:08 | <robehend1> ha, wish i could say the same. If it plugs in or takes batteries, its somehow my jurisidiction
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| 09:08 | which also somehow included the PA and Theater sound and lighting systems..
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| 09:31 | <ponny_> hm, rebuilded and now it works again
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| 09:33 | evil_root is now known as zz_evil_root | |
| 09:36 | <AndyGraybeal> lols awesome; re's sales not using linux :)
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| 09:36 | ponny_: i read that sales people use linux all the time..... if they have a smart phone :)... and you know all sales doods love the gadgets.
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| 09:38 | that's how you can be like.. what? oh.. you have an andriod phone, it runs linuxes! your desktop can to!
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| 09:41 | oh, is that a nokia you got? it runs linuxes... etc :)
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| 09:41 | it's all about social engineering
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| 09:47 | <ponny_> ah:D
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| 09:47 | thats the approach i need
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| 09:47 | that and win7 theme
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| 09:48 | <AndyGraybeal> :)
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| 09:48 | i would think that win7 theme might make things more confusiong, but i'm interested on how the approach works.
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| 09:48 | er. works out.
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| 09:48 | <ponny_> maybe osx theme is better
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| 09:50 | <AndyGraybeal> lols
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| 09:50 | that's not what i meant :)
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| 09:51 | <ponny_> :D
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| 09:54 | <robehend1> ha, i went the route of building a Gnome theme that sorta mimics windows, but obviously wasnt windows. made it familiar enough, and they were fine
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| 09:55 | now if i could just find out why i have /usr/bin/X : 0 -verbose - auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm/database -nolisten tcp vt7 taing up 50% of my laptops cpu, ill be happy
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| 09:56 | <ponny_> robehend1: haha, that was my plan too:)
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| 09:57 | <[GuS]> hi guys, i was building latest LTSP, client in Gentoo. Then I got this http://pastebin.com/3uDizxi4
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| 09:58 | <robehend1> ack, killing that program wasnt a good idea..logs me out, no prompt or nothing
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| 09:58 | [GuS]: sorry Gus, no help here. me and gentoo dont get along.
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| 09:59 | <[GuS]> robehend1: oks :
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| 09:59 | :(
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| 09:59 | me either robehend1, but we use it in the work... :P
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| 09:59 | i have no chance...
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| 09:59 | <robehend1> ah, funsies. give me a debian based distro, and i'm happy..heck, even fedora or CentOS..but gentoo..ac
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| 10:00 | <[GuS]> robehend1: me too, i always use a debian based servers.
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| 10:00 | Gentoo have to many problems...
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| 10:00 | but well
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| 10:00 | thanks anyways!
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| 10:00 | <robehend1> no problem. now to figure out why my GDM auth isnt clearing out, and is instead eating up all my cpu..
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| 10:03 | <[GuS]> :S
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| 10:13 | <robehend1> meh, it happens. I've been meaning to reinstall my laptop to 10.10 anyways, to test it
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| 10:19 | * [GuS] uses KDE, so i dont know :P | |
| 10:20 | <[GuS]> in my work also that we use gentoo, we use Gnome.. .a nd many times GDM starts to consume all cpu :S
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| 10:37 | <ponny_> whaaaat does update do?
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| 10:37 | i dont get it
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| 10:37 | <robehend1> ltsp-update-image?
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| 10:37 | <ponny_> yes
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| 10:37 | everything works until i update
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| 10:38 | <robehend1> it looks at the chroot, finds if theirs been changes, and adds them to the images, I believe.
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| 10:38 | <ponny_> and then fucks something up without telling me
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| 10:38 | <robehend1> did building a new chroot work, to at least get them booting?
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| 10:39 | <ponny_> yes
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| 10:39 | <robehend1> try adding firefox as a local app, and then updating the image. That way, you can mae sure your ltsp-update-image command isnt fubar'd somehow
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| 10:40 | <talntid> Have a theoretical question for you guys......................
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| 10:40 | <ponny_> i tried update without any changes
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| 10:40 | <robehend1> ponny_: and what happened?
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| 10:40 | <ponny_> did not boot after that
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| 10:40 | <robehend1> talntid: whats up, Tal?
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| 10:40 | <ponny_> i even rage rebooted the server:)
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| 10:41 | <robehend1> ponny_: makes me think your ltsp-update-image command some how got fubar'd, but I'm not sure how to fix it.
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| 10:41 | <AndyGraybeal> rage reboot
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| 10:41 | <talntid> I run a call center. I have 75 agents, broken up into groups of ~10. I am going to dedicate a LTSP server to each group of 10. I am curious if I can use LTSP to serve an image of LTSP servers, so each of those 7 servers, boot off the network. Storage for homedirs is on a SANS..
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| 10:41 | <ponny_> talntid: and softphones?
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| 10:41 | <talntid> so the thin client SERVERS would boot off the LTSP server, then they would serve LTSP to the actual thin clients..... via DHCP and MAC addresses...
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| 10:41 | <robehend1> hmm...ltsp to run ltsp...
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| 10:42 | <talntid> theoretically, would it work? The advantage being only needing to manage one instance of ltsp for the 7 servers, and 1 instance for the 75 clients..
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| 10:42 | <robehend1> you know, I think it might be possible
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| 10:42 | <robehend1> Take your 1st ltsp server, lets call it master, and build the ltsp-images as fat clients.
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| 10:43 | in the fat client chroot, you'd need to setup ltsp and all that, of course.
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| 10:43 | <talntid> right.
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| 10:43 | you are 100% with me on this thought process.
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| 10:43 | <robehend1> where would you want your dhcp to be running though
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| 10:43 | <talntid> DHCP would run on the master, and the chroot'd
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| 10:43 | DHCP on master would only serve to the servers, based on mac address
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| 10:44 | DHCP on the slave, would be set to serve DHCP to the thin clients, based on mac address
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| 10:44 | <robehend1> oh, your going to do full mac assigning? That gets rid of my next problem, thinking they'd hand out the same IPS..
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| 10:45 | <talntid> I want to try it. :)
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| 10:45 | <robehend1> it sounds possible
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| 10:45 | i'd be interested in your results. it sounds fun, regardless
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| 10:45 | <talntid> Then, in this config, adding the other 75 clients and 7 servers, should be a matter of plug & play... simple.
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| 10:45 | when I expand in April
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| 10:45 | <robehend1> indeed.
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| 10:46 | would just have to add the new 75 client dhcp reservations
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| 10:46 | <talntid> right
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| 10:46 | <robehend1> but..this is LTSP..it cant be this simple!
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| 10:46 | something must break!
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| 10:46 | <talntid> haha, my LTSP has been rock solid for 3 years :)
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| 10:46 | serving 25 clients
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| 10:47 | <robehend1> ha, mines doing decently fine, as well. In fact, I'm just waiting on Fedex to deliver my server so i can deploy a second one in another school
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| 10:47 | <talntid> sweet =)
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| 10:47 | mine has a few little things that bug me about it, but they are bearable :)
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| 10:47 | <robehend1> luckily, its for an elementary school, so all they care about is Firefox and flash..
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| 10:47 | <talntid> that's all I care about too :)
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| 10:47 | call center
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| 10:47 | <robehend1> no sip phones?
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| 10:48 | <talntid> they use hard phones
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| 10:48 | <robehend1> nice
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| 10:48 | <talntid> they are still SIP, but polycoms
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| 10:48 | <robehend1> i've played with getting Ekiga setup as a localapp for ltsp, but never really had a need, so its in my pile of "stuff to play with when teres freetime"
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| 10:48 | <talntid> i havn't ever got sound to work, so I would have to get through that first
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| 10:49 | <robehend1> hmm, odd. I've had pulse working out of the box, even on 8.04
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| 10:49 | <talntid> i s'pose I havn't even plugged in speakers to test
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| 10:49 | I'm running 10.04
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| 10:49 | <robehend1> so am I, now.
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| 10:49 | <talntid> but have had the clients since 8.04
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| 10:49 | Wyse V00L thin clients
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| 10:49 | <robehend1> and it worked out of the box. Mind you, it was just for flashplugin installed as a local app
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| 10:50 | how do the Wyse clients work, btw? I've been looking at them, as I'm tired of running these old celerons into the ground
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| 10:50 | <talntid> localapps weren't around during 8.04, were they?
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| 10:50 | The Wyse ones, I have had no failures.
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| 10:50 | I run firefox as a localapp, as well as flash, and it's a bit laggy, but workable
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| 10:50 | <robehend1> yep, they were. not as well supported as now though, what with the auto mounting of /home and /proc and /opt and such.
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| 10:50 | you know how much you paid per unit, perchance?
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| 10:51 | <talntid> $228
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| 10:51 | expensive
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| 10:51 | 800mhz, 512ram
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| 10:51 | <robehend1> still, not bad, since the ROI must be good with the energy savings, not to mention physical footprint
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| 10:51 | <talntid> indeed. I don't regret it
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| 10:52 | during the current expansion, I am switching to IBM ThinkCenter's
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| 10:52 | <robehend1> is the V00L an older model? All i see now is V00LE on their site
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| 10:52 | oh? why?
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| 10:52 | <talntid> Core2Duo 1.86, 2gb ram
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| 10:52 | I can pick them up for $100 each..
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| 10:52 | <robehend1> whoa whoa, how you do that
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| 10:52 | <talntid> and with the firefox localapp, they should scream.
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| 10:52 | energy savings are not a huge concern anymore with me, because my users will be much less frustrated
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| 10:53 | we bought out another company who went bankrupt.. bought all their computers
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| 10:53 | <robehend1> how can you manage that price though. I just paid 220 for Pent Ds with 2 gb of ram
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| 10:53 | <robehend1> and those were refurb dells
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| 10:53 | <talntid> I can do better than that, just walking in to my local PC recycle store, I think...
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| 10:54 | not including monitors, of course
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| 10:54 | <robehend1> ah, thats the difference. I had to wait to get them shipped from toronto
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| 10:54 | <talntid> ah
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| 10:54 | <robehend1> so had to pay nearly 1700 for customs and freight
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| 10:54 | <talntid> local call center went out of business, so I bought all their IT stuff
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| 10:54 | got a steal.
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| 10:54 | <robehend1> ha nice
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| 10:54 | I bet
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| 10:55 | <AndyGraybeal> was it an auction?
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| 10:55 | <talntid> I picked up Dell Poweredge 2950's with xeons, 16gb ram, 600gb hdd...
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| 10:55 | for $475 each, got 4 of them
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| 10:55 | <AndyGraybeal> nice
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| 10:55 | <talntid> yes, Auction
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| 10:55 | <AndyGraybeal> i get most of my boxes from auctions
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| 10:55 | <robehend1> nice! I was able to grab some 2850s from a law firm went out of business, 2x Xeons, 8 gb of ram, 500gb SCSI Raid, 145 a peice. It was nice
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| 10:56 | <talntid> nice! =)
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| 10:56 | <robehend1> I need to live in a larger area. we never have actions.
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| 10:56 | <talntid> I'd have done that too
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| 10:56 | I live in Spokane, WA. shit town.
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| 10:56 | not much here
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| 10:56 | <robehend1> Fargo, ND. we're even smaller
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| 10:56 | <talntid> I was stationed there.
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| 10:56 | <robehend1> oh? then you know my pain
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| 10:56 | <talntid> I worked on ICBM's for 4 years.
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| 10:57 | Actually it was Minot
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| 10:57 | where I was
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| 10:57 | <talntid> 250ish miles away
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| 10:58 | <robehend1> yep. I've been there a few times
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| 10:58 | Fargo is maybe...1.5 times the size of minot, but it has *nothing* around it
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| 10:59 | still never run across any decent auctions, as most of it keeps getting donated, or reused..or the local Microsoft shop buys it all up..
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| 11:08 | <ponny_> i seem to have some dependency problems
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| 12:24 | <coordinador> Hi
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| 12:24 | i need to make that the boxes have the turn off option in gnome menu
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| 12:25 | it is exist?
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| 12:25 | how can i do it?
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| 12:39 | <ponny_> puh..new server..clean ubuntu-install
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| 12:39 | lets not break anything
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| 12:43 | <robehend1> coordinador: When you say turn off the menus, do you mean turn off parts of the menus, i.e. get rid of Accessories?
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| 12:45 | <ponny_> i think he wants to have the Shutdown button for the users?
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| 12:45 | he/she
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| 12:45 | <robehend1> ah, that makes sense. Shutdown, or Logoff, coordinador?
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| 12:48 | <robehend1> coordinador: To make a shutdown button, right click on the menus and go "edit menus". Then, make a "new item". Mae it's type Application, give it a name you want, and in the command box, type gnome-session-save --shutdown-dialog
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| 12:48 | coordinador: do the same for logout, except the command is gnome-session-save --logout-dialog
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| 14:07 | <ponny_> is there a reason for running stuff as localapps?
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| 14:07 | <robehend1> better response on some programs, i.e. flash
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| 14:07 | <ponny_> okay
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| 14:07 | <robehend1> it also takes a burden off your server, by moving it to the client
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| 14:07 | i was able to save roughly 200 mb of ram per user, just by moving firefox and flash to local
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| 14:08 | <ponny_> wow..okay
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| 14:08 | hm
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| 14:09 | not sure i will allow them to use flash though:D
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| 14:09 | theyre just going to watch youtube all day:D
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| 14:09 | <robehend1> change your hosts file, so Youtube directs to something else?
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| 14:10 | <ponny_> on the other hand..im a nice admin
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| 14:10 | <robehend1> flash, sadly, is everywhere these days. I tried to get away with not using it, but the chronic prompting of "an additional plugin is needed to view this page" became too annoying for my users, and through them, my trouble ticket system
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| 14:10 | <ponny_> i refuse to use flash at work
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| 14:10 | i would refuse it at home too, but i like wathcin funny cat videos
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| 14:11 | <robehend1> too much of my schools content is delivered through flash, sadly. heck, some of the so called 'programs' coming with textbooks are just flash these days
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| 14:11 | i'm ok with that though, as that means they run on linux nicely
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| 14:12 | <ponny_> sucks..im not a big fan of flash
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| 14:12 | <robehend1> i've yet to meet someone who is
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| 14:12 | but its nearly a necessary evil
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| 14:13 | now, as long as people dont demand Shockwave...hate that software
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| 14:15 | <ponny_> html5 video?
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| 14:15 | but that ofc doesnt solve it all
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| 14:15 | <robehend1> once you convince the 1.2 gazillion websites made in flash to use it ;)
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| 14:15 | <ponny_> just my funny cats videos
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| 14:15 | :D
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| 14:17 | well i can be very persuasive
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> vagrantc: a first implementation, I can also make it simulate ldminfod if needed: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/k0uphEEt
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| 15:05 | If accepted, I'll also make a python-based GUI for editing the configuration files
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> whoah
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| 15:06 | <muppis> I think I just got python-based overdose.. ;)
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> Heh... did I miss some previous talk?
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| 15:07 | <muppis> Nope.
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> Since there are no multiple sections in each file, it's easy to make a parser/editor
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| 15:08 | <muppis> Just got overfilled tank of any scripting languages.
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| 15:12 | But well... python is easy and well supported, so why not.
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> Well it's much easier/faster to develop a gui in pygtk or even pyqt than in C... and usually speed isn't significant for simple GUIs to justify the use of C
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| 15:20 | <muppis> alkisg, I know.
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| 15:22 | <robehend1> whoa alkisg, if I'm not mistaken, did you just make the framework for a way for us to configure LTSP without digging into text files?
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> Urm, I wouldn't put it that way
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| 15:23 | I tried to move lts.conf to /etc/ltsp/config.d, and to separate sections in different files
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| 15:23 | <robehend1> oh...well, that makes sense though
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> If that is accepted, then I'll make an editor. But an editor could also be made now, it would just be harder to parse lts.conf now.
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| 15:23 | <robehend1> no more "i mistyped 1 thing on line 273, now its all borked"
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> `sh -n /etc/ltsp/config.d/file` could also be used to check for syntax errors in that new system, or if an editor is developed, it would do the syntax checks itself
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| 15:25 | But mostly I liked the multiple files idea, so that packages can drop their configuration scripts, and the sysadmin can more easily do conditionals if he has some bash skills
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| 15:25 | <robehend1> i like that idea
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| 15:26 | espicially as i slowly but surely teach myself more bash.
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> The downside is that if no editor is used, instead of a section one would have to write `match "$ip" "192.168.*" || return 0` as the first line of a file, which is somewhat harsh for people that have never seen code (not much harder than dhcpd.conf though)
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| 15:27 | <robehend1> true, but if we're trying to make ltsp usuable by say, a tech teacher whose idea of code is HTML, i can see the problem
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> That's where the editor comes in
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| 15:28 | With a list of possible lts.conf variables + descriptions
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| 15:28 | <robehend1> only problem i see is having to keep up with new lts.conf variables as new extensions roll out, like this new ltsp-remoteapps
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| 15:28 | if one falls behind the other, could be all kinds of fun
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> That's already true, the lts.conf man page doesn't even have the half of possible vars
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| 15:29 | <robehend1> valid point
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> But all the descriptions would be in an easily editable/upgradable/translatable file
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| 15:30 | <robehend1> hmm, i like this idea more and more then. anything that makes my workload less is good, in my eyes
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> So it might even push people to keep their vars documented in it
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| 15:30 | <robehend1> whoa whoa whoa. lets not talk crazy here
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| 15:30 | ;)
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> :D
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| 15:31 | <robehend1> sure wish fedex would hurry up with my server :p
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> Btw, opensuse already has an editor, I've never used it though: http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:KIWI-LTSP/ng_screenshots
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> kiwi is it's own thing, though ... last i heard, kiwi-ltsp didn't even use lts.conf ... they implemented everything in their kiwi stuff
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| 15:40 | * alkisg also thinks that GUI isn't very intuitive... | |
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> So anyway if there's interest in this, tell me to go on with implementing the editor
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| 15:42 | <robehend1> i played with OpenSuse a bit, just out of curiosity. was..different
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| 16:02 | <phpdevel> Anyone good with lts.conf configuration? thin client crashes when extending dual monitor
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| 16:12 | <Gadi> alkisg: few qu's on ur config.d system
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> Shoot
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| 16:12 | <Gadi> first off, why not use a directory structure and some more logic rather than sourcing all files?
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| 16:13 | for example,
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| 16:13 | instead of a "match" function at the top of all scripts, you could look in a config.d/mac/ dir for a matching file
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> Right, but that would require the user to create arbitrary dirs (e.g. match vga) and it would make an editor more difficult, so I thought I'd keep the backend simple and just offer a GUI
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| 16:14 | (for the persons that don't want to see match in bash)
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| 16:14 | E.g. how would you state "match hostname or vga" in a dir structure?
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| 16:15 | <Gadi> not sure how it makes the editor more difficult
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| 16:15 | <phpdevel> Is there a config option in lts.conf that will extend a dual display instead of mirror it?
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| 16:15 | <Gadi> you can have; hostname/foo vga/bar
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| 16:15 | but, I guess vga is dificult
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| 16:15 | just because it is a string
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> And why is that an "or" and not an "and"?
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| 16:16 | <Gadi> ok
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| 16:16 | ill buy that
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| 16:16 | now, what do you expect to get with "cpu"?
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| 16:16 | the speed of the first cpu?
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| 16:16 | the type?
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| 16:16 | all cpus?
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> We'll choose something... e.g. bogomips? and also have cpu1, cpu2 etc? or not have cpu at all?
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| 16:18 | If the skeleton is acceptable, the specific vars and their meaning can be negotiated ;)
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| 16:18 | Also, it's bash, so it's possible to have arrays, if needed
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| 16:19 | I imagine that we can offer a config.d on the chroot as well, where the sysadmin can define the vars he wants anyway he wants them
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| 16:19 | ...and just offer a few easy ones, that we can easily discover in the initramfs too
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| 16:20 | <Gadi> makes sense
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| 16:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we already do have a ltsp_config.d
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no that's a different one, it's just for sending info to the server
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| 16:20 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 16:20 | <Gadi> vagrantc: he means to set the vars passed to the server to use to decide configs
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> We don't necessarily need that, but it's an idea
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| 16:22 | If the skeleton sounds sane, I can send a bzrdiff for the few proposed changes to the chroot scripts
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| 16:22 | The old lts.conf method can continue in parallel with the new one for compatiblity reasons for some years, and then some day drop it
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| 16:23 | And it can also substitude ldminfod if needed, so that no new port is needed
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| 16:23 | (and to make ldminfod faster)
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| 16:23 | But anyway that's not the point
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| 16:24 | Moving the config to /etc, providing flexibility + an editor, and without Depends:apache is the point
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| 16:24 | (an editor with the current lts.conf structure is difficult)
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| 16:25 | <Gadi> well, depending on how fancy you get, an editor this way can be difficult too
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| 16:25 | but not for the same simple configs
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| 16:26 | :)
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| 16:26 | like, if you started having a bunch of functions in your config.d scripts, your gui editor would not know what to do
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> Not fancy at all. It's either a VAR=VALUE + match/source at the beginning, which is easily parseable, or it's a user defined shell script, which isn't/shouldn't be editable by the editor
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| 16:27 | Nope, no functions
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| 16:27 | (and source isn't even needed, one can just put a nicer "match" directive)
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| 16:27 | Since a client may match multiple scripts
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| 16:30 | From what I've seen, caching also isn't really needed, except if ldminfod is also implemented in shell.
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| 16:30 | (because now it's very slow so caching would help it)
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> alkisg: your current script returns many more variables than it should
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> Gadi: when ran from inetd?
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> Hmmm like what?
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| 16:46 | I can empty all the vars at the beginning, if inetd exposes more vars...
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| 16:46 | It works ok for me now though
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| 16:46 | *here
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| 16:47 | <Gadi> I get lots of SUDO_* vars and USERNAME=root
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| 16:47 | must be running sudo somehow
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| 16:47 | weird
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| 16:47 | <alkisg> inetd with sudo? really weird
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| 16:47 | It should run as nobody
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| 16:47 | <Gadi> right
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| 16:47 | weird
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| 16:48 | * vagrantc hopes Gadi hasn't been hacked | |
| 16:48 | <Gadi> and they all have "export" in front of them, so I assume it is ur script
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| 16:48 | <alkisg> You did run it with nc, right?
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| 16:48 | So that inetd calls the script...
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| 16:48 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 16:48 | weird
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> Gadi: ah there's an option for inetd to "not mess with the environment"
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| 16:49 | Maybe you have that set
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| 16:49 | <Gadi> I have things like: export SUDO_COMMAND="/etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd restart"
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> man inetd, let me see...
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| 16:49 | -E Prevents inetd from laundering the environment. Without this option a selection of potentially harmful environent variables, including
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| 16:49 | PATH, will be removed and not inherited by services.
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| 16:49 | <Gadi> must be getting that from somewhere
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> OK i'll just empty all the vars then
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> at the beginning
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| 16:51 | <Gadi> hmm
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| 16:51 | doesnt seem to help
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| 16:55 | <Gadi> gotta run
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| 16:55 | bbiab
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| 16:56 | <alkisg> Gadi: try this: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/PcLC7gbk
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| 16:56 | OK, later...
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> Gadi, better try this one when you return: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/cnYfez2C
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> Last one for today: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/1QK29ZD1
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| 17:46 | <talntid> any way to set it that so if a thin client is disconnected (power failure/network loss/etc), that when you log back on, you still have what you are working on up?
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| 19:25 | <moldy> talntid: i don't think so
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