IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 4 March 2008 (all times are UTC)

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00:54	<kwak> are there any users of k12ltsp here. just want to ask if flash player is resource hog?
00:54	our school joined worldmathsday.com and its very slow. the CPU usage is always 100%
00:56	we have only 25 thin clients, server has 2GB of ram.
00:58	<johnny_> yes.. flash sucks..
00:59	you prolly need to set it up to run local apps if possible..
01:02	<kwak> just enable local apps right? that means the client should have 128 ram, is this correct?
01:15	<johnny_> i haven't done it yet
01:15	just suggesting a course you might find useful to attempt to follow
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02:25	<doggkatcha> cyberorg; can i get localdev without ldm on kiwi-ltsp?
02:26	<warren> cyberorg, if any of your stuff going back into upstream LTSP5?
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02:27	<cyberorg> doggkatcha, no
02:28	warren, i have used unmodified ltsp5 stuff, only thing suse specific is image creation stuff from kiwi
02:28	<warren> cyberorg, I use fedora specific image creation stuff, but I pushed it into upstream anyway
02:28	<cyberorg> will take a lot of work before there is anything I can contribute
02:28	<warren> cyberorg, how far are you along?
02:29	<cyberorg> warren, i have been trying to get folks here to test our work, may be you guys can tell what can go in and what needs change
02:29	<doggkatcha> cyberorg, i need to export display to run script on another server, works with startx obviously but chokes with ldm. any suggestions?
02:29	<warren> "here"?
02:29	<cyberorg> here #ltsp :)
02:30	<warren> cyberorg, best thing you can do is upload your bzr tree somewhere for people here to review
02:31	<cyberorg> warren, it's here http://linux.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/preview-motorola-a1600-motoming-2/
02:31	sorry http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/KIWI-LTSP
02:32	instructions on how to get it working http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
02:32	<Pascal_1> hello
02:33	what is the way to change the login screen on thin client ? i would like to "install" other theme is it possible ?
02:33	<cyberorg> doggkatcha, i didn't get your question
02:34	<doggkatcha> cyberorg, i have a script sitting on another server that needs the display exported
02:35	with ldm it exports as "localhost:11.0" and my script dies
02:35	<cyberorg> warren, latest (openSUSE 11) image works only on client with 256MB ram, 10.3 one worked on 128MB
02:35	<doggkatcha> works fine with startx in lts.conf
02:35	<cyberorg> doggkatcha, ldm gives you login to the server's X session, you can execute script after you log in
02:36	<ogra_cmpc> doggkatcha, DISPLAY=<your_client_ip>:6.0 /usr/bin/your_script
02:36	<warren> cyberorg, you can't expect developers working on other distros to test your distro in order to figure out what belongs upstream.
02:37	<ogra_cmpc> doggkatcha, but i'd really suggest to rather use ssh -X user@server /usr/bin/your_script ... instead of letting the world read everything
02:37	<cyberorg> warren, of course, but I am not qualified enough to make that judgment so any helping hand is appreciated :)
02:38	<doggkatcha> ogra_cmpc, i've tried with passwordless ssh but my home is an nfs mount and it's not working at all!
02:38	ogra_cmpc, how can grab client's ip automagically?
02:39	<ogra_cmpc> warren, vagrant and i both looked, the kiwi script creates a monoplithic blob that diesnt distinct client or server .... a simple split would make it feasable as builder plugin
02:39	doggkatcha, env
02:39	look at the ouptut
02:40	grep for LTSP_CLIENT
02:40	* warren imagines a monolithic blob monster.
02:40	<ogra_cmpc> or if you like it harder, extract it from SSH_CONNECTION
02:40	<doggkatcha> ogra_cmpc, thank you kindly, let me give that shot
02:41	<cyberorg> ogra_cmpc, vagrant and I cam up with https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/upstream-plugin/SUSE_LINUX/
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02:41	<ogra_cmpc> doggkatcha, does the ssh way work with passwords
02:41	you probably just misconfigured that
02:42	<doggkatcha> ogra_cmpc, works with password
02:42	* ogra_cmpc cant imagine a sshd that wouldnt work nowadays
02:42	<doggkatcha> problem is current setup uses rsh without the need for user to type password
02:42	i need to maintain that kind of accessibility
02:43	<ogra_cmpc> and if you generate a keypair and add it to authorized_hosts it doesnt ?
02:43	err
02:43	authorized_keys
02:43	sorry, not completely awake yet :)
02:43	<doggkatcha> ogra_cmpc, doesn't work. i think it's because the servers all have an nfs mounted home (ie shared home)
02:44	<ogra_cmpc> that shouldnt matter
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02:45	<doggkatcha> ogra_cmpc, let try with ldm instead of startx
02:46	<ogra_cmpc> the way you log in shouldnt matter at all
02:46	<doggkatcha> i need localdev which i'm failing to get without ldm
02:47	<ogra_cmpc> what kind of OS is running on the server you run that app on ?
02:47	<doggkatcha> win4lin
02:47	<ogra_cmpc> ??
02:48	you try to log in to a windows session inside an emulator ??
02:48	what OS is the host system for that ?
02:48	<doggkatcha> sort of, display is exported and you get window into windows session, os is gentoo linux
02:49	<ogra_cmpc> ah
02:49	so you log in to a gentoo box
02:49	<doggkatcha> yeah
02:49	<ogra_cmpc> check the sshd_config file
02:49	<doggkatcha> what am i looking for?
02:49	<ogra_cmpc> PubkeyAuthentication yes
02:49	<doggkatcha> done
02:49	<ogra_cmpc> is it set ?
02:50	or was it\
02:50	<doggkatcha> it is set
02:50	<ogra_cmpc> ok
02:51	do you have ~/.ssh/id_rsa and the oatching .pub file in your users homedir on the ltsp server ?
02:51	*matching
02:52	<doggkatcha> it's on both servers (nfs mounted home)
02:55	<ogra_cmpc> and you have an authorized_keys file in that dir as well ?
02:55	<doggkatcha> yep
02:55	<ogra_cmpc> containing the contents of the .pub file
02:57	<doggkatcha> yep
02:58	<ogra_cmpc> thats weird
02:58	i know lots of per
02:58	people with such a setup
02:59	but there the server is usually ubuntu though
02:59	<doggkatcha> my ltsp server is opensuse 10.3 but i don't think that should matter
03:00	<ogra_cmpc> hmm
03:00	<doggkatcha> but anyway, your advise worked man.
03:00	<ogra_cmpc> you mean setting DISPLAY ?
03:01	<doggkatcha> yeah, cut ip address from LTSP_CLIENT and exported display and i'm able to get my windows session
03:01	<ogra_cmpc> the other one should have worked too ... thats what bothers me ....
03:01	its way safer than rsh as well
03:01	<doggkatcha> too true, but i'm phasing the win4lin server out soon so it's cool
03:02	thanks for your advise man, really appreciate it
03:02	<ogra_cmpc> :)
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03:07	<doggkatcha> ogra_cmpc, you still there?
03:07	<ogra_cmpc> sure
03:07	i'm always here
03:07	<doggkatcha> one last question, how do i get localapps support?
03:07	<ogra_cmpc> you dont :)
03:07	there is no implementation yet
03:08	<doggkatcha> any way to throttle cpu usage for firefox?
03:08	<ogra_cmpc> you can fiddle with mounting home directly on the client and run an sshd there ... then you can ssh -X user@client firefox or so
03:08	<warren> grrr
03:08	ldminfod somehow gets stuck in a 100% CPU loop
03:08	<ogra_cmpc> but there is no shipped implementation yet
03:09	warren, what do you see if oyu connect to it via telnet to localhost
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03:09	<doggkatcha> ok, sounds hairy!
03:09	<ogra_cmpc> where exactly does it stop
03:10	<warren> ogra_cmpc, hmm, same thing, 100% CPU and no output
03:10	<ogra_cmpc> warren, also you should really filter out all non utf8 locales to cut down your horribly long list
03:10	<warren> ogra_cmpc, I am using a hard coded list for now
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03:10	<ogra_cmpc> there should be really no need anymore for non utf8
03:10	its a one line change in ldminfod
03:11	and enev with your hardcoded list it doesnt work ?
03:11	*even
03:11	<warren> [root@newcaprica sbin]# locale -a \|grep utf8 \|wc -l
03:11	227
03:11	still a horribly long list =)
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03:11	<ogra_cmpc> well, 227 isnt hearly 800 :)
03:11	<warren> ogra_cmpc, with my hardcoded list of only two languages it still doesn't work
03:11	<ogra_cmpc> *nearly
03:11	hmm
03:12	try dropping the code for the load detection ?
03:12	<warren> It might have something to do with my tcpd
03:12	<ogra_cmpc> probably your xinetd isnt allowed to access certain things that code digs into on your server
03:12	<warren> ogra_cmpc, because running ldminfod manually has output
03:12	<ogra_cmpc> yeah
03:12	i think its a permission issue
03:13	i'd drop everything that touches /proc as first step
03:13	its code we dont use anyway
03:13	<warren> xinetd prevent specific things like that?
03:13	<ogra_cmpc> francis needs it for his load balancer though
03:13	no idea
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03:13	<ogra_cmpc> i never used xinetd in my life
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03:14	<ogra_cmpc> but i'm assuming your xinetd runs as a special user who isnt allowed to access all of the system
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03:15	<warren> xinetd runs as root
03:15	<ogra_cmpc> hmm
03:16	anything in hosts.allow/deny that could block ?
03:16	(in ubuntu and debian these are empty by default)
03:17	<warren> ldminfod from inetd run as nobody?
03:17	<ogra_cmpc> we dont have a nobody user ...
03:18	<warren> what user does ldminfod run as?
03:18	<ogra_cmpc> root as well
03:18	well, inetd runs as root
03:18	<warren> I wonder if that is the cause
03:18	* warren tries it
03:18	<ogra_cmpc> oh, crack
03:18	it runs as nobody
03:18	i need to fix that
03:18	(against policy)
03:19	actually we have all four services running as nobody ... hrm
03:19	<warren> ?
03:19	<ogra_cmpc> smells like i need to have an ltsp user on the server
03:19	<warren> why is nobody against policy?
03:20	<ogra_cmpc> we have a policy that every service should be derooted with a safe restricted user
03:20	wso you limit the possible damage
03:20	if any scurity issues show up
03:20	<cyberorg> ogra, nobody is that user we use ;)
03:21	<ogra_cmpc> right, thats less safe
03:21	* warren not particularly concerned about services running as root with selinux =)
03:21	<warren> although we don't run anything as root if we can't help it
03:22	<ogra_cmpc> yeah i would have been surprised if you ran hal as root for example .... or nobody
03:22	or udev
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03:25	<ogra_cmpc> warren, anyway, drop all the coede thats not related to give you sessions or locales and see if that helps
03:25	<warren> i'm checking differences between inetd and xinetd first
03:25	I might be missing something
03:25	cyberorg, is opensuse using inetd or xinetd?
03:26	<ogra_cmpc> we're using openbsd-inetd in ubuntu/debian
03:26	<cyberorg> warren, xinetd
03:26	<warren> cyberorg, you are successfully using ldminfod?
03:26	<cyberorg> warren, i'e not implemented that yet
03:26	* warren wonders if anybody with xinetd is using ldminfod yet
03:26	<cyberorg> just got nbdroot, first with aufs, now with split image
03:27	<warren> cyberorg, how does split image work btw?
03:27	cyberorg, the explanation in those posts was a bit incomplete
03:27	<ogra_cmpc> warren, there is a guy on the ML who runs ubuntu tarballs on fedora or centos since some time
03:27	he might be using it
03:27	<cyberorg> warren, we create tarball of everything that requires rw and mount them tmpfs
03:27	<ogra_cmpc> warren, he uses the bind_mounts method
03:28	<warren> oh
03:28	ok, very similar to what we have then.
03:28	although it seems that we use cpio instead of tar
03:28	it is pretty gross
03:28	<ogra_cmpc> bind_mounts ?
03:28	its ingenoius
03:28	<cyberorg> i found tar gross
03:29	<warren> ogra_cmpc, bind mounts with cpio
03:29	<ogra_cmpc> ah
03:29	<cyberorg> requires me to put gzip in my initrd :(
03:29	<ogra_cmpc> and?
03:29	how is that hard
03:29	requires me a two liner in ubuntu
03:29	<warren> cyberorg, we have some initrd's in excess of 100MB =)
03:29	cyberorg, what initrd creation tool is suse using these days?
03:30	* ogra_cmpc really thinks the other distros should consider initramfs-tools
03:30	<ogra_cmpc> it makes life sooo much easier
03:30	<cyberorg> warren, mkinitrd is used by suse, but to keep kiwi distro independent it has its own mechanism
03:31	<warren> cyberorg, yeah, I'm having tremendous problems with mkinitrd here
03:31	ogra_cmpc, it isn't that simple.
03:31	<ogra_cmpc> warren, surely it is
03:31	<cyberorg> warren, shaefi - kiwi dev thought it is too much work trying to 'fix' mkinitrd than to implement new thing ground up
03:32	<warren> ogra_cmpc, talked with our key technical people, they think initramfs-tools is a horrible design
03:32	even if they are incorrect there is no changing their mind
03:32	<ogra_cmpc> all you want in the end is an initrd ... initramfs-tools uses mkinitrd as well ... it just uses wrapper scripts to make modifications easier
03:32	<warren> My personal opinion is that mkinitrd needs to die
03:33	oh, found a potential issue
03:33	xinetd doesn't like calling tcpd directly
03:33	<cyberorg> warren, our kiwi-ltsp netboot initrd is 10M
03:34	<ogra_cmpc> ogra@ceron:~/isos/hardy$ ls -lh /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/initrd.img-2.6.24-8-generic
03:34	-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4,3M 2008-02-26 15:40 /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/initrd.img-2.6.24-8-generic
03:34	:)
03:34	<warren> cyberorg, 5764021 bytes for my Fedora LTSP initrd currently
03:34	<cyberorg> ogra, don't make me jealous :P
03:34	<warren> cyberorg, although this contains a lot of extra crap
03:34	cyberorg, I'm currently including all networking drivers no matter how useless they are.
03:34	<ogra_cmpc> ours only has NIC drivers and the bare basics to get the kernel up
03:35	<cyberorg> i have had really hard time cutting it down from some 20M default one
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03:35	<cyberorg> warren, where is your working tree?
03:36	<ogra_cmpc> ltsp-trunk :)
03:36	<cyberorg> what happened to ltsp-upstream?
03:36	<ogra_cmpc> that is the branch name
03:36	<warren> cyberorg, absolutely everything I'm doing is upstream now
03:36	<ogra_cmpc> ltsp-upstream is the team
03:36	<cyberorg> aah, cool
03:37	<ogra_cmpc> http://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream
03:37	<warren> cyberorg, the mkinitrd part that does the gross network driver munging is in mkinitrd-6.0.31
03:37	cyberorg, heading to fedora 9
03:37	<ogra_cmpc> it owns several branches
03:37	<warren> I'm probably going to write a stripped down mkinitrd replacement for Fedora 8 and RHEL5
03:39	<cyberorg> warren, it must be different to what we use, here it shows mkinitrd-2.1
03:39	<warren> cyberorg, I think suse forked mkinitrd away a long long time ago
03:40	cyberorg, I still see suse copyrights in mkinitrd here
03:40	<cyberorg> it seems to be a handful in whatever avatar
03:41	<warren> ogra_cmpc, what was the keepalive trick to ensure nbd servers will actually close again?
03:42	avatar?
03:43	<cyberorg> warren, whatever form it is reborn as
03:46	<ogra_cmpc> warren, nbdrootd: ALL: keepalive .... in /etc/hosts.allow
03:47	<warren> ogra_cmpc, hmmm... xinetd.conf has a KEEPALIVE flag you can set in a process
03:47	ogra_cmpc, if hosts.allow and hosts.deny are both blank it should default to allow right?
03:48	<ogra_cmpc> right
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03:52	<ogra_cmpc> oh yippie ... my rsyncs are finally done
03:52	* ogra_cmpc relocates
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03:55	* ogra is impressed by warrens last commit
03:56	<ogra> so you split up all the initscripts into pieces ?
03:58	<warren> ogra, which?
03:58	<ogra> the one from 9_05 UTC
03:58	revision 605
03:58	<warren> ogra, that isn't initscripts
03:58	ogra, that's scripts to setup the server to serve
03:58	<ogra> (i'm subscribed to the branch, so i automatically get all changes sent)
03:59	ah, i thought it were the client initscripts
03:59	just saw you play with /etc/hosts ...
03:59	<warren> client initscripts are in client/
03:59	<ogra> that made me think it
03:59	<warren> I'm not sure why that is in there
03:59	I just imported a lot of crap from Eric
03:59	<ogra> +if ( ! `grep "$server server.ltsp" /etc/hosts` ) {
03:59	+ open (HOSTS, ">>/etc/hosts");
03:59	...
03:59	<warren> I fixed up a few things but I might have missed stuff
04:00	I didn't test any of that checkin yet
04:00	=)
04:00	<ogra> ah :)
04:01	btw, dropping udev in favor of a hardcoded /dev will cost you a lot wrt autodetection
04:02	<warren> ogra, not dropping udev
04:02	<ogra> (and probably even make teh boot slower as you need to start udev at some point if you dont want to hardcode eevrything)
04:03	i dont think you can prevent it from reprobing everything
04:03	<warren> not dropping udev
04:03	<ogra> well, not hving udev in the initial boot
04:04	<warren> ?
04:04	what are you talking about?
04:04	* ogra re-reads the thread
04:04	<ogra> oooh
04:04	you bind mount /dev in the client build process
04:05	(why do you do that ?? )
04:05	<warren> ogra, our image creation tool did that because the people who wrote it initially didn't think it would be a problem and they needed device nodes. I was always against it.
04:05	<ogra> yeah
04:05	<warren> ogra, recently they realized it was a bad idea, so they accepted a patch from me.
04:05	<ogra> sounds evil
04:06	<warren> I'm thinking about a template for a fake /proc too
04:06	<ogra> thats why we ahve start-stop-daemon in ubuntu/debian it prevents things like udev to start in a chroot
04:06	<warren> fake /proc might need to be interactive though, so it might need to be fuse
04:06	<ogra> well, we cant drop /proc in ubuntu ...
04:07	<warren> only for image creation
04:07	<ogra> many packages get info from it during install
04:07	<warren> no no
04:07	udev doesn't start at all during chroot creation
04:07	<ogra> it would attempt to in debian or ubuntu
04:07	we have a policy that all daemons you install have to start imediately in a proper default config
04:08	<warren> starting anything at package install time is very against rules in Fedora
04:08	<ogra> so the package will tr to start it regardless
04:08	yeah, there we differ massively
04:08	<warren> that's why I have ltsp-server-initialize
04:08	because NONE of my stuff is enabled by default
04:09	<ogra> right, we have the exactl opposite prob :)
04:09	and you are lucky since we're usually not allowed to touch config files at all
04:09	i think rpm policy is very loose there
04:10	<warren> sort of
04:10	the policy is generally... package upgrades shouldn't break existing configs
04:10	sometimes that means upgrading a version and auto-mangling configs so the new version works
04:10	<ogra> right, in .debs you have certain files tagged as conffiles ... these have not to be touched at all by scripts
04:10	<warren> ugh.... xinetd still isn't working
04:11	I will get more help tomorrow
04:11	good night
04:11	<ogra> ciao, sleep tight
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04:13	<Pascal_1> hello
04:13	is there a way to change the splash screen login for the ltsp thin client ?
04:14	<ogra> Pascal_1, ldm uses /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/default in the chroot
04:15	copy /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/ubuntu to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/mytheme ... make your modifications, set he link new (chrooted) and run ltsp-update-image
04:16	the latest ldm has a LDM_THEME variable for that so it can be handled by lts.conf in the future
04:17	<Pascal_1> i'm on a debian etch then no image, and the default link go on "default -> /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme" but ldp-theme doesnt exist
04:17	ldm
04:18	<ogra> sure it does
04:18	you need to chroot to see the proper link setup
04:18	ignore alternatives in your case
04:18	just care for /usr/share/ldm/themes/default
04:19	ldm doesnt care about alternatives at all :) only the packaging system does
04:19	<Pascal_1> then i modify the default link ?
04:20	<ogra> right
04:20	<Pascal_1> default goes on debian or debianedu or ubuntu themes ?
04:20	ok
04:22	<ogra> well, whatever you see on your screen, no idea what vagrant defaults to in his packages :)
04:23	in ubuntu it was always ubuntu (as well as it was the upstream theme until recently)
04:55	<Nubae> is there a way to hide or show applications to certain sets of users?
04:55	ie by username or group?
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05:40	<ogra> Nubae, sabayon could help with profiles ...
05:40	there is a project in edubuntu since some releases already, but that will still take time to be done right
05:43	<Nubae> I thought sabayon confliced with ltsp logins somehow
05:43	or is that fixed?
05:44	<ogra> sabayon requires you to add every user to a profile to work with ltsp
05:44	<Nubae> heh, thats kinda unfeasable for most school setups
05:44	<ogra> thats the actual prob ... depending on how many users you have tats achiievable or not :)
05:44	<Nubae> I have 100+ users so no, not feasable
05:45	<ogra> well, LaserJock is working on the edubuntu-menus project but i suspect that wont be there before intrepid
05:46	<Nubae> also, I did an upgrade to hardy the other day, and dhcp server broke (told me to look in syslog for diagnostics) but grepping dhcp didnt bring anything up
05:46	so I moved back to gutsy
05:47	<laga> dhcpd error are usually in /var/log/daemon.log
05:47	for me at least :)
05:47	<Nubae> when starting it up, it said to look in syslog, but I'll take a look at deamon when I get a chance to start up hardy again
05:48	still, its in development so I understand there are breaks once in a while
05:48	<ogra> well, i just finished a vitrualbox install with the current iso here
05:48	works fine
05:48	even the edubuntu addon worked fine
05:49	<Nubae> it was working great until I did an upgrade... and I did upgrades every 2 or 3 days
05:50	<laga> ogra: ralph janke wants some discussion wrt https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/198114 - any objections? :)
05:50	<Nubae> just one of them broke my dhcp server rendering ltsp unusable, so I had to go back
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05:50	<ogra> laga, i want the patch, i just want to talk with vagrant about it first
05:50	looks like it defaults to do nothing
05:51	thats not acceptable
05:51	<laga> ogra: ok, good.
05:51	ogra: no, it defaults to mounting. if the variable is empty, do something
05:51	<ogra> if we switch the default or i just overlooked something that sets it to on i'm fine with it
05:52	if [ -z "$CONFIGURE_FSTAB" ] \|\| boolean_is_true "$CONFIGURE_FSTAB" ; then
05:52	that the conditional ...
05:52	<laga> ogra: fstab is configured if $CONFIGURE_FSTAB is empty OR if CONFIGURE_FSTAB is set to true.
05:52	with empty being the default.
05:52	<ogra> right
05:52	ok, thats fine then
05:52	i somehow read -n instead of -z
05:52	* ogra wonders why
05:52	<laga> ogra: i've also got a patch for the timezone issue, just have to test it
05:53	<Nubae> I installed kdebuntu-kde4 at home, it looks awfully similar to vista :-)
05:53	<ogra> i guess i should work less
05:53	<laga> ogra: heh
05:53	* laga has got lots of patches, actually ;)
05:53	<ogra> yay for intrepid then :)
05:54	* ogra has lots of pending or unfinished stuff he didnt touch for hardy at all due to the LTS nature
05:55	<laga> heh
05:55	<ogra> all these gui tools are nagging me in my nightmares
05:56	<laga> well, some of them actually fix stuff, like auto-detecting the port for nbdroot= properly. if you pass in nbdroot=10.0.10.1 without the colon, it'll try to connect to a nbd server running on port 10.0.10.1 ;)
05:56	ogra: i started working on the -diskless section of mythbuntu-control-centre last night
05:56	<ogra> you shouldnt pass nbdroot without colon
05:57	<laga> i'm not sure if i want to steal your progress bar or just open a terminal where ltsp-build-client runs, eg for debugging.
05:57	<ogra> there is nbdserver and nbdport for separate values
05:57	<laga> ogra: yes, but why?
05:57	<ogra> because it is similar to what nfs does
05:57	i want some consistency here
05:57	<Nubae> laga, y not do a -diskless workstation aswell as mythbuntu ;-)
05:58	<laga> Nubae: because i already find way too many quirks for which i have to come up with hacks ;)
05:58	<ogra> Nubae, mythbuntu is a diskless kiosk ;)
05:58	<Nubae> yeah I know, I meant a full diskless client
05:58	<ogra> a workstation requires infrastructure thast not in ubuntu yet
05:59	<Nubae> with full apps
05:59	just ldap
05:59	<ogra> if we have a proper networkauth server we can integrate with
05:59	<Nubae> and nfs
05:59	<ogra> surely not nfs
05:59	<Nubae> to mount home
05:59	<laga> yeah, i think the only things that's missing is ldap
05:59	<ogra> i dont want user data exposed through something liek that
05:59	<Nubae> how else if not with nfs?
05:59	<ogra> something fuse based
05:59	like sshfs
06:00	<laga> sounds slow. :)
06:00	<ogra> its required for localapps anyway
06:00	<Nubae> indeed, but secure
06:00	<ogra> its in the spec
06:00	so we'l get it for free there
06:00	<Nubae> well, the ldap part is easy
06:01	<laga> ogra: okay, i'll look at the NFS script again later. all that variable substitiun is black magic
06:01	<ogra> you are right, it will likely be some ldap setup ... but i wont implement aything on the ltsp side that requires ldap unless there is something like a network-auth-server package in ubuntu
06:01	laga, all POSIX :)
06:02	<laga> ogra: yes, but hard to read. to what part were you referring wrt the colon? nfsroot=<server>:<path>
06:03	<ogra> nfsroot either accepts a path or server:path
06:03	<laga> and you say it's got to be nfsroot=:/path if you omit the server?
06:04	<ogra> no
06:04	nfsroot=/path
06:04	* laga is probably one cold shower short of understand how this is about consistency
06:04	<ogra> but thats not really feasable in nbd's case imho
06:04	nbdroot=port ?
06:05	that looks totally wrong to me ...
06:05	it doesnt define the root
06:06	(and beyond that nbdroot isnt used anywhere, its optional, we default to nbdport in all scripts)
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06:07	<laga> ah.
06:07	<ogra> well, lets discuss that if its time for it :) we wont change it for hardy anyway :)
06:07	<laga> ogra: good :)
06:07	<ogra> so lets go over code once we have something ;)
06:07	<laga> (i use it to bootstrap clients from USB)
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06:07	<ogra> nbd ?
06:07	heh
06:07	<laga> yes
06:08	* laga also needs to add code to mythbuntu-control-centre to unmount anything in /opt/ltsp/<arch>
06:08	<ogra> funny usecase
06:08	<laga> ogra: yes, i know it's odd. but some people probably won#t be able to change their DHCP setup.
06:08	* ogra abuses nbd for loopback devices he wants to be recognized as real blckdevices
06:08	<laga> oh, and i still have to prove you wrong wrt alternate dHCP ports
06:08	heh, nice
06:09	<ogra> i suspect it works, i only relied on that guy on the ML who poked me in private as well
06:09	i didnt try it myself
06:09	<laga> i'll try later
06:11	as soon as i get to build a chroot. yay for hardy brokenness :)
06:12	<ogra> works for me
06:12	<laga> mythtv-frontend is broken today, ubuntu-keyring was broken last night
06:12	<ogra> as i siad, i just ran an ltsp instal off the current ubuntu alternate CD
06:13	<laga> i'm going to try our alternate CD later
06:13	i changed a lot of stuff in ltsp-client-builder. eg it'll only act on _configured_ interfaces now.
06:15	<ogra> thats what it does, no ?
06:15	where did you grab the source from ?
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06:15	<laga> no, it'll only act on unconfigured interfaces
06:15	ogra: hardy
06:15	<ogra> thats something i fixed some months ago i thought
06:16	<laga> "fixed"? yours was by design i thought!
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06:16	<ogra> err
06:16	i need to learn reading ...
06:16	<laga> part of the whole "i want to use a secondary NIC" thing
06:16	heh
06:16	<ogra> especially if there is an un in front of a wrod :P
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06:17	<ogra> right, i fixed that the NIC was configured to late ...
06:17	pretty much the opposite :)
06:17	<laga> heh
06:17	<ogra> ltsp-client-builder needs a lot of love ...
06:18	it does the bare minimum but there is lots of room for improvement
06:18	<laga> yup
06:18	<ogra> i would love to get the progressbar fixed one day
06:18	<laga> still very nice to be able to do it in the install
06:18	<ogra> cant count the hours i spent on that already ...
06:18	<laga> heh
06:19	maybe you can just assume that a certain amount of linesis 100% and then count the lines it's outputting
06:19	very hackish, tho
06:19	<ogra> but you have three layers of debconf running ... i dont manage to prevent them from crashing into each other at some point
06:19	<laga> ouch.
06:19	<ogra> the prob is not gettting the data ...
06:20	the prob is directing the output toteh right frontend
06:21	inside /target the frontend is different from the d-i one you actually see ... and then you run ltsp-build-client which runs its own debconf ... and then ltsp-build-client has plugins that chroot into the client root and start another debconf while installing packages
06:22	so its three debconfs ... one /proc and one /dev ... all try to claim the sme ressources
06:22	*same
06:22	i need to pray to the god of redirecting pipes to enlighten me one day :P
06:24	<laga> yes
06:34	<Pascal_1> hello is there a way to pastebin ?
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06:34	<laga> Pascal_1: www.phpfi.com
06:35	<Pascal_1> i thought there was a special pastebin for ltsp
06:35	<laga> !pastebin
06:35	<ltspbot> laga: Error: "pastebin" is not a valid command.
06:35	<Guaraldo> ltspbot: pastebot
06:35	<ltspbot> Guaraldo: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
06:36	<Pascal_1> thanks
06:36	<ltsppbot> "Pascal_1" pasted "here is my problem ltsp is ins" (15 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/456
06:36	<Pascal_1> anybody could help me about my problem?
06:40	<laga> ogra: using alternate dhcp port works. just add -p 1068 to the ipconfig call and -p 1067 to your dhcpd call
06:41	<ogra> ok
06:41	so we need a kernel option then :)
06:41	<laga> ogra: boot option you mean :)
06:41	<ogra> is dhcp_alternate_port to long ?
06:42	<laga> i probably have a patch handy.. ponder
06:42	<ogra> it its small and non intrusive ...
06:43	<laga> well, i just added it to the config file, but overriding it via command line is no problem
06:43	give me a few and i'll make a ticket shrug
06:44	* laga needs to learn to use debdiff properly
06:45	<sep> X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH does not seam to have any effect on the resulting xorg.conf on the client.
06:45	how would one spesify the values ?
06:46	<laga> ogra: oh. i just added a generic option to pass options to ipconfig. would you prefer a "port only" option?
06:47	<ogra> the generic option is included in ipconfig, see the docs
06:47	IP as kernel option or so
06:47	<laga> what docs? edubuntu, ltsp or klibc-utils? :)
06:47	<ogra> klibc
06:47	th ipconfig docs
06:48	<Pascal_1> anybody for my problem
06:48	<laga> ogra: yes, but you can't easily specify them from conf.d/*
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06:53	<laga> ogra: no, it is not possible to pass arguments for ipconfig with the current code. except for the port, i don't see what'd be useful tho so i'll just add the port
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07:00	<Pascal_1> clear
07:00	anybody could help me ? http://pastebot.ltsp.org/456
07:01	<laga> Pascal_1: somebody will help you if they have time and an answer
07:01	just asking the same question every five minutes won't make anymore more likely to help you
07:01	<Pascal_1> sure !!
07:01	<laga> :)
07:09	<Pascal_1> every five minutes ?? only twice because i've got a diconnection
07:09	any way sorry
07:13	<laga> Pascal_1: what are you trying to do exactly?
07:13	<Pascal_1> have you seen py pastebin ?
07:13	* laga didn't know LTSP used LDAP
07:13	<laga> yes
07:13	i don't understand, though
07:13	<Pascal_1> ok wait
07:14	the aim is to permit ldap user to connect on ltsp (on thin client) and to mount thier samba share
07:14	everything works fine when i'm directly connected on the server
07:14	<laga> ah. so you've got a LDAP database and these users should be able to log in on thin clients to use the server's ressources, right?
07:15	<Pascal_1> but when i 'm connected from a thin client the samba share is not unmounted and there is nothing in the logs
07:15	yes
07:15	<laga> hum. how do you mount that samba share?
07:19	<Pascal_1> whith a pam module
07:19	libpam-mount
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07:32	<Pascal_1> laga ?
07:33	<laga> Pascal_1: sorry, no clue. maybe something is handled differently when logging in from a remote location
07:34	<Pascal_1> ogra any idea ?
07:34	what is the difference between the connection directly on the server and the connection from thin client to the server ?
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07:52	<laga> ogra: maybe you'd still like to take a look at my nbdroot= patch: http://phpfi.com/300492 as you can see, it still breaks if you specify nbdroot=2000 so it's consistent :)
07:53	ogra: eg it won't autodetect if the server is missing, it'll just fill in the port
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08:00	<ogra> laga, just saw the bug ... why not use IPOPTS ?
08:02	<laga> ipconfig -c ${IPOPTS}
08:02	ipconfig -d $IPOPTS
08:02	not gonna work.
08:03	if you look at scripts/ltsp_nbd
08:03	i'm assuming thatr $IPOPTS is an argument to -c or -d
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08:04	<Crasw> alguem ai ?
08:04	hi,
08:05	<ogra> if [ -n "$DHCPPORT" ]; then $IPOPTS=" dhcp -p $DHCPPORT"; fi
08:05	and dont change the function at the bottom
08:07	oh, i should look at the complete code :)
08:08	in any case it should only apply if dhcp is actually used
08:08	<laga> hum.
08:08	<ogra> that requires more error checking
08:08	<laga> error checking?
08:08	<Crasw> Pessoal alguem aqui fala portugues ?
08:08	<laga> just remove it from ipconfig -d $IPOPTS ${IPCONFIGARGS}, no?
08:08	<ogra> i guess yu need a case check inside the dhcp\|bootp\|rarp\|both)
08:09	well, does it work with bootp or rarp
08:09	*
08:09	?
08:09	<laga> um
08:09	no clue
08:09	* laga doesn't use ancient stuff ;)
08:09	* ogra doesnt have a setup to test that
08:10	<ogra> but i wouldnt like to break it
08:10	<laga> neither have i
08:10	according to the ipconfig README, rarp is unsupported anyways
08:10	<Pascal_1> ogra have you got an idea for me
08:10	<ogra> so only if ipopts is set to dhcp that should apply
08:10	Pascal_1, i would have told you if i had, really
08:10	<laga> but given the nature of the klibc documentation (eg "non-existant") that's probably wrong
08:11	<Pascal_1> ogra could you just told me what is the difference between the connection directly on the server and the connection from thin client to the server ?
08:11	<ogra> ssh
08:12	ldm uses ssh to connect ... locally you use a local gdm login
08:12	<laga> ogra: okay. so, IPCONFIGARGS gets to stay but is only applied when IPOPTS = true?
08:12	<ogra> no
08:12	only if IPOPTS=dhcp
08:12	<laga> err, yes.
08:12	that's what i meant.
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08:13	<Pascal_1> thank you ogra
08:13	<ogra> and just use DHCPPORT directly
08:13	<laga> ogra: IPCONFIGARGS might come in handy, though. maybe it can stay everyhwere and i just reset DCHPPORT to "" if IPOPTS != dhcp?
08:17	<ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "something like that" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/457
08:18	<ogra> laga, ^^^
08:19	<laga> ogra: okay, i give up :)
08:19	<ogra> keep it simple
08:19	<laga> i'll just attach a new patch then (gotta keep my version in sync, too)
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08:22	<cliebow_> Hey homies!
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08:25	<laga> ogra: i don't think that file uses four spaces instead of tabs..
08:26	<ogra> it does ... below . /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf
08:26	looks like a merge bug
08:27	<laga> heh
08:27	<ogra> could need some formatting love for sure :)
08:27	<laga> :)
08:27	* laga files one last bug report against LTSP for today ;)
08:28	<lion99> Hi, Newbie, Just downloaded and made 7 CDs for K12LTSP instal. Where can I find the documentation, HW configuring?
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08:45	<mighty-d> Hi
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08:47	<mighty-d> im having some problems with ltsp 5.0 on gutsy, i have a working ltsp 4.2 on slackware but wanted to upgrade, however i have some thin clients running old pentium mmx boxes (they take like 45 seconds on boot), but with ltsp 5.0 it takes almost 5 minutes to get ldm prompt
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08:48	<Nubae> is there a general bootup key one can press for pxe based network cards?
08:49	<mighty-d> i've been reading around and it seems this is a documented issue, im not sure how to face it, i was thinking i could use ltsp 4.2 on the old pentium boxes and keep ltsp 5.0 for the other clients, and enabling XDMCP on Gutsy, the other way is to use a different server for ltsp 4.2 , what do you think?
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08:53	<RyanRyan52> Nubae: depends on your hardware
08:53	<Gadi> mighty-d: do you know at what point the mmx's get stuck? perhaps it is something easily corrected
08:53	<RyanRyan52> Nubae: it might tell you
08:54	Nubae: or you might have to find a manual
08:54	<Gadi> Nubae: if you have an onboard PXE as well, disable it
08:54	<mighty-d> Gadi, i dont see a clearly stuck step, it seems all the boot process is affected, however, i can check it out...
08:55	<Gadi> mighty-d: take out the word "splash" in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
08:55	and reboot
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08:57	<mighty-d> Gadi, i cant make test at this time since that boxes are beeing used... (have to run tests at the end of the day), but i feel you know a workaround for this ... ?
08:57	<Nubae> it doesnt tell me, and I really dont want to open up every machine
08:58	<Gadi> mighty-d: can't know a workaround until you know the problem
08:59	<Nubae> i just got 20 old dell gx1 with pxe based network cards for 17 euros a piece :-)
08:59	<laga> Gadi: i wonder if he'd benefit from bootsplash?
08:59	<Nubae> but I need to get into the pxe menus
08:59	<laga> Nubae: have you checked the BIOS setup?
08:59	<mighty-d> Gadi, ok, i can't run the tests at this time, but what would you suggest i should look for when i run the test?
08:59	<Nubae> yeah nothing in there
08:59	<Gadi> Nubae: try shift-f10
09:00	<Nubae> k
09:00	<Gadi> mighty-d: by removing splash, it will boot without the bootsplash, keep an eye as to which services it hangs on
09:01	<mighty-d> ok Gadi, you are very kind :)
09:01	<Gadi> np - let us know
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09:04	<Nubae> yeah shift f10 brought up dhcp searching menu, so worked
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09:06	<Nubae> I have another problem now though, some of these computers dont seem to have pxe boot cards, how can I stick the pxe boot menu on the hard drives, my server has no floppy drive and the destination computers have no cdrom drives?
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09:08	<Gadi> Nubae: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Etherboot
09:11	<cliebow_> Gadi:know all and sees all
09:11	* Gadi has been around the block way too many times
09:12	<cliebow_> 8~)
09:16	<Nubae> how do I get it to the hard disks though, if there is no floppy on my server and no cdrom on the destination computers?
09:16	before I always created cdroms and loaded that way
09:18	<Gadi> usb?
09:18	<Nubae> these old computers will never load from usb
09:18	though the usb exists
09:18	<Gadi> screwdriver?
09:19	gotta expect some elbow grease at 17 euro
09:19	<Nubae> :-) well, the first one loaded up into edubuntu without any change, but it had a pxe based card in it
09:20	<Gadi> pxe should be network-card-type independent for the most part
09:20	<Nubae> there is a minimal win98 dos installed on them though
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09:21	<Gadi> the PXE code is not usually on the card
09:21	its usually on the MB
09:21	<sutula> Nubae: Do the client machines have floppy drives?
09:21	<Nubae> really? not in my experience
09:21	yes sutula
09:21	but my server has no floppy drive
09:21	<sutula> Nubae: Why not create boot floppies from some other computer
09:22	<Gadi> that was the motivating force behind the PXE standard
09:22	<Nubae> well, pxe I found on 3com cards, but not on the motherboards themselves
09:23	I have no computer with linux on it and a floppy drive, all load from the server via ltsp
09:23	I guess I'll go create one though
09:23	<mighty-d> Gadi, they can be stored on an eprom inside the NIC
09:23	<sutula> Nubae: There is no server-specific code on e.g. a Netboot floppy
09:23	<Gadi> right, they can
09:23	Nubae: you may be able to mod the autoexec.bat
09:24	<Nubae> we're talking computers from '97
09:24	<Gadi> not sure
09:24	<mighty-d> Gadi, can't grub load etherboot? (i think i saw this somewhere)
09:24	<Gadi> actually, you can use winrar
09:24	probably
09:24	but you only get one shot at it
09:24	:)
09:24	<Nubae> winrar?
09:25	<Gadi> mighty-d: he has computers with no floppy, cdrom, usb boot, or netboot capability
09:25	<Nubae> they'res a command.com on every harddrive
09:25	<Gadi> all he's got is win95
09:25	winrar
09:25	<Nubae> 98
09:25	:-)
09:25	<Gadi> its kinda like dd
09:25	<Nubae> aha
09:25	<Gadi> basically, dd the hdd with the appropriate etherboot image
09:25	<Nubae> I really dont want to open them all up
09:25	<Gadi> no no
09:26	d/l winrar onto them
09:26	and use win98
09:26	<Nubae> its win98 dos
09:26	<Gadi> to fill the bootloader on the drive
09:26	<Nubae> not actual win98
09:26	<Gadi> either way
09:26	<Nubae> so no network connectivity
09:26	<Gadi> there's a dos util
09:26	ah, crap
09:26	17 euro
09:26	<mighty-d> Nubae, what about a screwdriver and a cdrom reader, i heard they have a cdrom, so you could set up grub on them to load either etherboot or win98
09:27	<Nubae> yeah ok, no other option, no built in win98 network connectivty command I guess
09:27	screwdriver it is
09:30	or I could just stick pxe based card in it and stick the bootloader on it that way... either way its a screwdriver story
09:31	<mighty-d> Nubae, screwdrivers are not that bad once you know them :)
09:31	unless you have a lot of clients, and then too much screwdriver could be a nightmare
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09:32	<laga> the pointy end goes towards the screw
09:32	<sutula> Nubae: Is it really true that you have no relatives, friends, etc. with a network-connected computer that has a floppy drive? If you had even one, you could write a floppy that you could use to install something on all the hard drives
09:34	<Crasw> 6 Mar 4 05:31:06 ltsp in.tftpd[14150]: tftp: client does not accept options
09:34	what is ?
09:35	<Nubae> sutula, i'm sure friends or relatives might have a floppy based system
09:38	<sutula> Nubae: http://netboot.sourceforge.net/ I've used that locally...apparently, if you copy syslinux.com to a floppy, you can run it on each client to put a boot partition on each hard drive
09:39	<Nubae> great thanks sutula
09:39	now off to find a floppy drive ;-)
09:39	* sutula isn't advocating Netboot over etherboot...but this isn't that hard of a problem
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10:03	<etyack> morning
10:12	is there a way to limit the sessions listed in ldm? i only want to offer the users icewm-session and Default to point to icewm-session.
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10:27	<etyack> hey jammcq
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11:24	<yemu> hi, i'm having trouble with black screen in ltsp in gutsy. it happens sometimes after logging in. sometimes i can see gnome panels, sometimes i can't... any1 has any idea why it happens?
11:27	<ogra_cmpc> yemu: anything in ~/.xsession-errors ?
11:28	<yemu> i haven't checked but i don't think if it's x error . i can see cursor, and sometimes even gnome panel...
11:28	i can move the mouse
11:29	ogra_cmpc: i'll take a look at xsession-errors
11:29	<ogra_cmpc> right, all errors occuring after you gave your password will be logged in that file
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11:29	<laga> yemu: is that user logged in twice, eg on another thin client?
11:30	<ogra_cmpc> yeah, thats something you should avoid
11:31	<yemu> laga: i'm not sure what you mean: logged in simultaneously or logged in on one terminal, then logged out and logged again?
11:31	<laga> yemu: simultaenously
11:31	<ogra_cmpc> yemu: logged in more than once in a graphical environment
11:32	on the server
11:32	<yemu> laga: i think the problem happens more often when someone logs in couple of times (but not simultaneously)
11:33	but it happens when user is logged only once
11:33	ogra_cmpc: i have a lot of things in xsession-errors ;-)
11:35	<ogra_cmpc> well, actual errors would be more intresting than 'things' :)
11:36	<yemu> ogra_cmpc: i'm 'parsing" the file right now ;-)
11:36	maybe i'll find something interesting
11:41	i cant' reproduce the error :-(
11:42	<laga> yemu: can you put the file in a pastebin?
11:43	* ogra_cmpc just dd'ed some bytes to the wrong device :'-(
11:43	<ogra_cmpc> that wiped the mbr and partition table ...
11:43	* ogra_cmpc cries
11:43	<laga> last time i did that, i use shred. luckily my windows partition "buffered" that...
11:43	ogra_cmpc: you can restore them
11:43	<ogra_cmpc> i kept the usb stick ... will care for it later
11:44	building a new image is faster :P
11:44	<laga> ah
11:44	thought it was something important
11:44	<ogra_cmpc> it was
11:44	or is
11:44	<laga> yes, building images is pretty fast with apt-cacher
11:44	ogra_cmpc: well, use testdisk to restore it :)
11:44	<yemu> i have a file from last 2 months, and it has about 3mb, mostly containing "ERROR: decompression failed"
11:44	<laga> at least that's what worked formy
11:44	s/my/me/
11:44	<yemu> and some other errors
11:45	<ogra_cmpc> its the image i built for the classmate ... most of the modifications i made on there arent stored anywhere else yet
11:45	<laga> oh :/
11:45	<ogra_cmpc> but i need a working squashfs first ...
11:45	then i can care for recovering the other one ... was time for an update anyway
11:45	just more extra work :(
11:46	<laga> :)
11:46	at least you didn't wipe half of your home..
11:47	<ogra_cmpc> well, /home is ratrher non important :)
11:48	<laga> not for me :)
11:48	<ogra_cmpc> i'm modifying system config and package defaults
11:48	so the system files are more important
11:48	in my case
11:48	<laga> no, i meant on your normal box
11:48	that's what i did last night :/
11:50	<ogra_cmpc> i dont play with dd on my normal box :)
11:50	(my normal box is my ltsp server in the basement we dont have dd over network yet ;) )
11:51	<laga> ah, do you use LTSP at home, too?
11:51	<ogra_cmpc> too ?
11:51	i work from home ... where else should i use it ? :)
11:51	<laga> "too" as in "you're not only developing it"
11:51	err, for your workstation :)
11:51	<ogra_cmpc> indeed i want to see the bugs :)
11:52	<laga> good :)
11:52	<ogra_cmpc> bugs that bite me directly are more likely to be solved immediately :)
11:52	<laga> too bad you don't use mythtv.
11:52	<ogra_cmpc> and beyond that i got used to silence in my office :)
11:52	<laga> :>
11:53	<ogra_cmpc> i will use the myth setup you made ... i just didnt have the time to pull a wire into my living room yet
11:53	i have a DVBS card lying in teh cellar since 6 months ... still didnt fint the time to set it up
11:53	<laga> yay for bug squashing then
11:54	dvb-s is quite easy
11:54	<ogra_cmpc> indeed
11:54	<laga> once you survive scanning for channels
11:54	<ogra_cmpc> its a post release project :)
11:54	i need a better dish first
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11:55	<laga> and i need to stop messing with stuff that used to work.
11:56	the LTSP X configure script does not work on my laptop.
11:56	xdebconfigurator & dexconf does.
11:56	"does not work" = sets up the VESA driver
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12:10	<yemu> a different question: how can i make directory accesible to all users and make all files written to this directory also accesible to all users? the first part is easy, but the second one is not (at least for me)
12:12	<sutula> yemu: For the directory, chmod 777 directory_name
12:12	yemu: For files written to that directory, you need to set the user's umask value
12:12	...usually done as part of shell startup
12:12	<yemu> sutula: user's umask?
12:13	how can i do it?
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12:15	<sutula> yemu: For bash, it's the umask shell built-in command
12:16	yemu: If you want it to affect everyone, you'd put it in e.g. /etc/profile
12:17	yemu: Of course, this will affect all files created by the users, and they'll all be accessible, not just those put in that directory
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12:17	<yemu> sutula: ok i get it.... and if i want only this directory i should use something like acl?
12:18	<sutula> yemu: I don't know anything about acl...others might
12:18	<yemu> ok, thanks!
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13:27	<etyack> is there a way to limit the sessions listed for ldm? i only want to offer the users icewm-session and Default.
13:27	<jammcq> hey etyack
13:27	<etyack> hey jammcq
13:27	<warren> ah... figured out what was wrong with ldmifod
13:27	ldminfod
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13:30	<Gadi> etyack: update-alternatives
13:30	if ur on ubuntu
13:30	<ogra_cmpc> warren: what was it ?
13:30	<warren> ogra_cmpc, don't run ldminfod through tcpd
13:31	<ogra_cmpc> i do ...
13:31	<warren> xinetd handles what tcpd did
13:31	<etyack> Gadi: on the server, not chroot in ltsp correct?
13:31	<Gadi> right - take a look at /usr/sbin/ldminfod
13:31	<warren> but now when I try to login via ldm, it gets stuck at a black screen
13:31	<Gadi> you'll see what it uses
13:32	<ogra_cmpc> warren: 9571 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/ldminfod
13:32	thats what i use
13:32	<warren> ogra_cmpc, I know
13:32	<etyack> Gadi: thanks
13:32	<ogra_cmpc> strange that xinetd doesnt like it
13:32	<warren> ogra_cmpc, xinetd has its own tcp server
13:32	<ogra_cmpc> warren: check ~/.xsession-errors
13:32	<warren> anyway I'm past that problem, and now at this new problem
13:33	ogra_cmpc, if I could get to a shell...
13:33	<ogra_cmpc> warren: there is a hardcoded xterm session in ldm
13:33	unless you removed it in your build
13:33	<warren> ogra_cmpc, that doesn't work either
13:33	<ogra_cmpc> ouch
13:33	<warren> ogra_cmpc, is that xterm session on the client or server?
13:33	<ogra_cmpc> anything in auth.log ?
13:34	its a hardcoded call to "ssh -X user@server xterm"
13:34	i think scdottie didnt include a path, but i'm not sure
13:35	<warren> ogra_cmpc, is ssh -Y ever needed on your OS?
13:35	many remote apps don't work in fedora without ssh -Y
13:35	<ogra_cmpc> nope
13:36	<warren> we might have tightened security more than the defaults
13:36	<ogra_cmpc> well, i never used -Y
13:36	and i never tried with it in ldm
13:37	<warren> I see no ssh attempts on the server
13:37	<ogra_cmpc> not sure how many users use it though :)
13:37	<warren> I think ssh -Y is due to even more paranoid defaults in Fedora
13:37	<ogra_cmpc> sounds like your ldm doesnt know teh server ip or so
13:38	anything in ldm.log ?
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13:38	<ogra_cmpc> (on the client)
13:39	<warren> ogra_cmpc, does your nbdswapd run as non-root too?
13:39	ogra_cmpc, I can't get to a shell on the client while ldm is running for some reason
13:40	<ogra_cmpc> nbdswapd's line in inetd.conf is identical
13:40	just different port and command
13:40	<warren> just checking
13:41	<ogra_cmpc> so create an lts.conf and set SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm
13:42	that should give oyu a shell and ldm if you didnt mess up the initscripts :)
13:42	<warren> ogra_cmpc, I can't change VT for some reason
13:42	<ataliba> do have support for ethernet realtek gigabit rtl8110sc to LTSP 4.x?
13:42	<ogra_cmpc> that sounds like either keyboard or X config
13:43	i have that regulary if we start a new cycle and kbd is broken ...
13:43	but it could be a config thing as well, what do you use to create the config in fedora atm ?
13:43	configure/x.sh ?
13:44	s/\|//-/
13:44	gah
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13:46	<warren> Nothing
13:46	fedora's default is no xorg.conf
13:46	and I don't plan on changing that
13:46	ogra_cmpc, see ltsp-trunk screen.d/xdmcp
13:47	<ogra_cmpc> oh
13:47	well, how do you handle input devices then ?
13:47	and keyboard mappings
13:47	<warren> what kind of input devices?
13:47	<ogra_cmpc> serial mice ?
13:47	<warren> ogra_cmpc, can't that be setup by clients?
13:47	<ogra_cmpc> there are tons of them out there
13:48	<warren> ogra_cmpc, if you want less common settings then you can provide a X config file
13:48	<ogra_cmpc> well for a de keyboard layout i need XkbLayout set
13:48	thats why we still have xorg.conf in ubuntu
13:48	<warren> you sure?
13:48	<ogra_cmpc> hal isnt rel0iable at all yet
13:48	<warren> let me check with my desktop people
13:49	<ogra_cmpc> its on its way but imho not ready for an april release
13:50	<warren> ogra_cmpc, anyway, the new "modernized" screen.d/xdmcp allows for a passed in X config file
13:52	ogra_cmpc, hmm, if SERVER isn't known to ldm, then it wouldn't have connected to ldminfod either right?
13:52	<ogra_cmpc> right
13:53	<warren> because ldm is connecting to ldminfod
13:53	I see my two languages
13:53	<ogra_cmpc> well, it uses LDM_SERVER internally but thats set from SERVER
13:53	<warren> I know
13:53	<ogra_cmpc> strange
13:53	are your keys ok ?
13:53	<warren> new theory:
13:53	ogra_cmpc, this might be an X server bug, I can't VT switch from xdmcp either
13:54	ogra_cmpc, using experimental new X
13:54	<ogra_cmpc> likely kbd
13:54	<warren> new theory: ldm was never used with readonly root
13:54	it assumes that you can write anywhere
13:54	<ogra_cmpc> no
13:54	it was written under nfs root
13:54	<warren> but it does try to write to places
13:54	<ogra_cmpc> it assumes you can write to certain places though
13:54	<warren> where?
13:55	<ogra_cmpc> gah, look at the code :)
13:55	something in /var/run very likely
13:55	for the socket etc
13:57	/var/log/ldm.log /var/run/ldm_socket_$VT_$IP
13:58	in ubuntu /var/run is a tmpfs ... and /var/log is in the bind_mount file list for nfs
13:58	so it works there
14:00	<warren> hmm, it probably wants /root too
14:00	for ssh
14:00	<ogra_cmpc> the /var/log part should be fixed some day to log to a default syslog resource so it ends up on the server
14:00	we never had /root in the nfs setup
14:01	(rw that is0
14:01	should work without
14:01	<warren> what is the home directory of your root user?
14:01	<ogra_cmpc> /root
14:01	but ltsp-update-sshkeys arranges everything on a system leve;l
14:01	<warren> oh, that's right
14:01	mmm
14:02	<ogra_cmpc> the only thing you would need /root for would be known_hosts
14:02	but the system has that in /etc/ssh
14:03	<warren> hah
14:03	I'm somehow missing openssh client
14:03	<ogra_cmpc> works ?
14:03	ah
14:03	heh
14:03	<warren> I thought I added this
14:03	<ogra_cmpc> make it a dep for ldm ;)
14:03	<warren> I did
14:03	<ogra_cmpc> weird
14:03	<warren> but something else overrode it
14:04	<ataliba> ltsp 4.2 dont have suporte for ethernet realtek gigabit rtl8110sc?
14:07	<warren> hm, i still see no ssh login attempt
14:07	<ogra_cmpc> you really need a shell for debugging
14:07	can you install a ssh server in teh chroot ?
14:08	<warren> yes
14:08	but with readonly root it is a bit broken
14:08	<ogra_cmpc> make 6the files it needs readable :)
14:09	<warren> doing
14:10	I'm sure glad that kvm supports vmware's vga and e1000 emulation now
14:10	works WAY better and faster
14:12	grr
14:12	making /etc/ssh read-write also makes the files in there disappear
14:12	<ogra_cmpc> use teh copy_dirs variable then
14:12	it makes it writable and copies teh files over
14:12	iirc
14:13	<warren> i'm not using your bind mount code at all
14:13	<ogra_cmpc> (dont trust my hints tomuch, its over a year ago that i saw my last nfs chroot)
14:14	well, you will have an equivalent piece of code, dont you ?
14:15	<warren> yes
14:17	hmm, it is behaving oddly
14:17	<ogra_cmpc> telent then ?
14:18	telnetd i mean
14:18	<warren> yeah
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15:07	<etyack> see ya
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16:42	<warren> YES!!!
16:42	I got a ldm login
16:42	<ogra_cmpc> congrats !!
16:42	<warren> argh
16:42	the mouse is going crazy
16:42	<ogra_cmpc> :(
16:43	i think you wont be happy without xorg.conf
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16:47	<warren> nah
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17:20	<ibg_> i just followed a tutorial on how to install the ltsp 5... but I can't get it to work...
17:20	can anybody help
17:22	<nikok> well... what's the problem? and url to the tutorial u followed
17:23	<ibg_> er... it's in prtuguese
17:23	portuguese...
17:23	but I stalled the server... and now when I try to start up it says "failed"
17:24	<nikok> ...
17:24	what did u exactly tried to start?
17:25	some daemon or the computer or...?
17:25	<ibg_> "sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start"
17:26	<nikok> I see
17:26	have u configured dhcp.conf yet?
17:26	it can be found in /etc/dhcp3/dhcp.conf
17:26	if i remember correct
17:27	depends on distro also
17:27	but i assume you're using ubuntu
17:27	<ibg_> i guess not
17:28	what should it look like?
17:29	yeah
17:29	ubuntu 7,04
17:29	i'm using ltsp5
17:32	<nikok> well it's very important that u look it closely and configure it to suit your network, it contains info of ip ranges which will be given to thin clients
17:32	and all other important shit as well... :D
17:33	i would show an example of my own ltsp server's dhcp.conf but it's not possible atm...
17:33	<ibg_> dude...
17:34	I don't know anything about the ip range.. and stuff like that
17:34	so I set this up on the linux... ou in the router?
17:34	<nikok> well... i suggest u start to study now 'cos ltsp ain't easy ride... :D
17:34	<ibg_> do all the machines have to be in static ip?
17:35	:p
17:35	or just the server?
17:35	<nikok>
17:35	which is running in the linux
17:35	<warren> ogra, ping
17:36	<nikok> *ip's
17:36	<ibg_> ok
17:37	so, only the server shoould have the static ip adress, right...
17:37	sorry but I to lame in this...
17:37	thanks for your help by the way
17:37	so.. continue
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17:42	<ibg_> look
17:42	I made the rom-o-matic disk
17:42	floppy disk
17:42	I loaded the dhcp.conf on my terminal
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17:51	<warren> How does debian specify what its default display manager is?
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18:12	<sutula> warren: I see /etc/alternatives/x-window-manager as a simlink to sawfish, but maybe you're asking something else
18:14	* sutula has a Debian system if warren wants him to check other stuff
18:15	<warren> sutula, like gnome vs. kde
18:16	<sutula> warren: ditto for x-session-manager pointing to gnome-session
18:16	warren: I'm not certain, though, about whether there's another config thing. I didn't find it under /etc/X11
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18:25	<sutula> warren: In /etc/X11/Xsession.d there are a bunch of init scripts. 50x11-common_determine-startup seems to pick the session manager based on env variables (since the user can pick the session at login time), and then it defaults to the /etc/alternatives choice if no variable specifies otherwise
18:25	* sutula doesn't know if this is helping, or what warren's real question is :)
18:25	<warren> sutula, do you know what exactly ldm does for the default?
18:25	sutula, i got ldm to work if I choose a particular session, but not if I don't choose one
18:25	because the way we do defaults on fedora is completely different
18:26	<sutula> warren: That's consistent with what I'm seeing, if you don't have the alternatives mechanism in place
18:26	warren: ...but I don't know (at all!) if ldm is supplying a different mechanism
18:26	<warren> we have alternatives, but our desktop team thought it was insane to use it for desktop sessions
18:27	sutula, I can easily add something else to ldm if I knew where/what it is doing
18:27	<sutula> warren: I can pastebot 50x11-common_determine-startup if it would help
18:27	<warren> k
18:27	<sutula> back in a few
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18:33	* sutula is back
18:34	<sutula> !pastebot
18:34	<ltspbot> sutula: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
18:37	<ltsppbot> "sutula" pasted "for warren, a copy of 50x11-common_determine-startup from a Debian system" (46 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/458
18:37	<warren> sutula, do you have ldm working?
18:38	ibg_ has quit IRC
18:38	<sutula> warren: sure
18:38	warren: It always behaved just as though you were getting a session on the console, in terms of the kind of question you're asking
18:38	<warren> It isn't obvious while reading the code exactly what it is running upon login
18:38	hmm
18:39	<sutula> warren: More recent versions of ltsp5 have added their own splash screens and stuff like that, but the earlier ones just used the system default
18:40	Maybe that's what's getting you
18:40	<warren> No
18:40	ldm greeter I see
18:40	ldm gets info fro ldminfod
18:40	if I select a session manually login works
18:41	if I don't, it fails
18:41	<sutula> warren: Does fedora have /usr/bin/x-session-manager or equiv?
18:41	<warren> no
18:41	that would rely on alternatives
18:42	<sutula> warren: Right...so if you're running anything like what I pasted, that would then fail to start a window manager
18:42	<warren> hmm
18:42	<sutula> warren: Even if you don't run the exact script, what if the ubuntu/debian developers here were relying on the same mechanisms for ldm?
18:42	* sutula doesn't know...just offering ideas
18:43	<warren> I'm reading the ldm source and I can't find any indication of what is run
18:43	by default
18:43	<sutula> warren: Can you test it by creating a quick script in /usr/bin/x-session-manager?
18:43	<warren> ok
18:43	<sutula> (on your sys)
18:43	<warren> I can symlink that to gnome-session
18:43	or something =)
18:43	<sutula> right
18:44	warren: I'm fairly fluent in Debian, not so fluent in X, and completely ignorant of Fedora, fwiw :)
18:44	<warren> that didn't do anything
18:44	must be something else...
18:44	<sutula> Darn
18:51	warren: Do you have /etc/X11/default-display-manager ?
18:52	warren: Never mind...that's the greeter selection
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18:54	<warren> sutula, I don't understand that part of ltsp_config
18:54	sutula, this script runs only on the client
18:54	sutula, and gdm is irrelevant here
18:55	or any other display manager
18:55	<sutula> right
18:56	* sutula still guesses his first attempt is the closest to what happens when a user logs in
18:56	<warren> sutula, you have any idea what the LTSP_CLIENT variable is?
18:56	sutula, if it were the case, then it would be somewhere in the code
18:57	sutula, ldm-trunk/src/ldm.c
18:57	snprintf(ltspclienv, sizeof ltspclienv, "LTSP_CLIENT=%s", ldminfo.ipaddr);
18:58	<sutula> warren: I don't have source atm
18:59	* warren looks at strings within ldm
19:00	<sutula> warren: I think you may have to wait for ogra or vagrantc on this...I'm going to have to get back to work, even though I'd rather be learning more about how ltsp works
19:00	<warren> sutula, thanks for the help
19:01	sutula, ah, found it
19:01	if (*ldminfo.session == '\0')
19:01	scopy(ldminfo.session, "/etc/X11/Xsession");
19:02	<sutula> warren: Good
19:02	<warren> at least I think that's it
19:02	not certain
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19:07	<warren> yep, it was Xsession
19:07	sigh
19:07	what to do... what to do...
19:07	* warren creates a symlink and walks away.
19:21	<sutula> warren: Xsession (on Debian) is what's running all the scripts in Xsession.d, which is where we started
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19:22	* sutula doesn't really need to know :)
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19:22	<warren> sutula, apparently we have roughly the equivalent in /etc/X11/xinit/Xsession
19:22	sutula, a symlink from debian's location to there worked
19:23	<sutula> warren: Ahhh...OK
19:23	<warren> sutula, I already checked in a conditional to ldm-trunk and building now
19:23	thanks for the help
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19:47	<warren> OK!
19:47	I have something Fedora 8 users can test for LTSP5
19:49	<loather-work> oh really, is that so.
19:49	<warren> it is a bit rough
19:49	<loather-work> hook me up plz kthx. :)
19:49	<warren> loather-work, you have fedora 8?
19:49	<loather-work> all over the place.
19:49	<warren> building one more RPM and adding it to my temporary repo
19:49	<loather-work> i was about to install an ubuntu box just to build the chroot.
19:50	<warren> don't need that =)
19:50	loather-work, the basics work with or without ldm, sound is broken, localdevices haven't tested yet
19:50	it might be quick to fix sound, don't know yet
19:50	<loather-work> well, sound is something we can deal with when it comes up
19:50	<warren> building a chroot works well
19:51	<loather-work> i'll need it in my installation, eventually
19:51	but it's low priority right now
19:51	does it use the nbd method or the nfs method?
19:51	<warren> loather-work, currently only nfs
19:52	loather-work, I'm trying to get NBD method before Fedora 9
19:52	if you want to use NBD I have some hacks but they aren't standardized yet
19:53	<loather-work> nfs is fine, actually
19:53	in fact i prefer it for now until i can hax my chroot into shape
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19:54	<warren> yeah
19:55	loather-work, pulse daemon appears unhappy because we have a much newer version, options changed
19:55	loather-work, you might be able to figure out what options are needede
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19:55	<loather-work> yeah, fedora's always on the bleeding edge.
19:56	i'll see if i can figure out the pulseaudio stuff -- i need that to work anyways
19:57	<warren> great
19:57	I could use any help
19:57	I've been working almost alone on Fedora LTSP support for months
19:57	difficult to get other people to help if they can't install it =)
19:57	but that changes TODAY
19:57	<loather-work> oh man, i've been working on it for a couple months too, but in spare time
19:58	<warren> why don't I see any checkins in ltsp-trunk then? =)
19:58	<loather-work> mine was nowhere near as mature as yours sounds
19:58	basically because i don't have bzr access, for one, and because it wasn't in any workable state
19:58	really i got to the point where i pared the installation down to the absolute bare minimum
19:58	then other projects attacked me and i had to back-burner it
19:59	i say i've been working on it for a few months, but there was really only about 4-5 days of work i did back in october before my time was taken by other things
20:00	but anyways, yeah, i can totally help you out with this.
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20:06	<nohup> ahh, that's nice... it's here :)
20:06	good evening, people
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20:09	<nohup> i just had ltsp booting from network and all (i already have some netbooting clients, but this was my first ltsp workstation)... but after i changed the lts.conf with XDM set to the right 'server'
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20:10	<nohup> it doesn't come up anymore
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20:10	<nohup> as in, doesn't start the x server
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20:10	<nohup> crap... i'll repeat it sometime in a couple of minutes when the split-madness is over
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20:43	<nohup> hmmmm
20:44	can anybody guess what's wrong when, after a ltsp workstation has booted, i can't type anything into the 'login" prompt xdm gives me ?
20:44	it did work when i started X by hand with --query
20:45	but that's kind of hard to test now, if i can't even switch to a console cause there's no keyboard-response at all
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20:48	<nohup> oh well.. commenting out all the getty's from inittab fixed that
20:49	you guys should document that somwehere :)
20:49	anyways, i'll leave this awesomely busy channel, keep up the terminalling ;0
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20:51	<warren> loather-work, ping
20:52	<loather-work> warren: pong
20:52	but in crisis mode gotta go
20:52	<warren> loather-work, ok, ping me later
20:52	<loather-work> willdo
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21:44	<warren> Anyone want to try LTSP5 on Fedora 8? I need limited testing and feedback.
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22:34	<sutula> warren: Might want to re-announce when the channel settles down from the server splits
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