IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 March 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:55 | <knipwim> alkisg: shall i push the Xsession.desktop blacklist change?
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| 07:55 | <alkisg> knipwim: by all means
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| 09:06 | <asdasd> hello ltsp people
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| 09:06 | asdasd is now known as Punjabby | |
| 09:06 | <Punjabby> I got thin client working on debian squeeze fine, but cannot figure out how to do "Fat Client:
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| 09:07 | man someone needs to write a comprehensive howto for debian squeeze
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> Punjabby: squeeze is a bit old, the fat client implementation wasn't really available back then
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| 09:18 | What's your current problem? Did you specify LTSP_FATCLIENT=True in lts.conf?
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| 09:18 | <Punjabby> LOLWUT
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| 09:18 | squeeze is debians current release
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 09:18 | <Punjabby> lenny is the old one
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 09:18 | <Punjabby> hehe
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| 09:18 | yes well
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| 09:19 | when I specify LTSP_FATCLIENT=True
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| 09:19 | it goes to login
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| 09:19 | i see successful ssh login in auth.log
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| 09:19 | but it hangs
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| 09:19 | and never finishes
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| 09:19 | just sits there forever
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| 09:20 | i see some things in syslog about ndb server saying "unknown partition"
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> And what's the output of a local `ps ax` at that point?
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| 09:20 | <Punjabby> i have no console access on the client sir
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> !SCREEN_08
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| 09:20 | <ltsp> alkisg: SCREEN_08: To get a root shell on a Debian thin client, put SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07 to lts.conf.
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| 09:20 | <Punjabby> it hasnt finished booting
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| 09:21 | yeah I havent figured it out yet
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| 09:21 | is there anything special I need to do when I build the client for FAT CLient?
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| 09:21 | build the image i mean
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> The fat plugin contained in squeeze is the one that we wrote for lucid
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| 09:22 | So it was a bit ubuntu-specific at that point
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| 09:22 | Nevertheless, you should be able to manually reproduce the needed steps to have a fat chroot
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| 09:22 | <Punjabby> yeah I see heaps of discussion and documentation available for ubuntu
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| 09:22 | but hardly nothing for debian
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> The latest commits (which aren't even available for wheezy yet) should support debian and custom-built fat chroots much better
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| 09:23 | <Punjabby> and I guess Ubuntu also has the benefit of --Fat_client option when they initially create the image
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> Right, but that's no longer needed in Ubuntu either
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| 09:23 | <Punjabby> k was confused bout that
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> Can you do what I said about getting a local shell above?
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| 09:23 | <Punjabby> Im new to ltsp, but ive been dabbling with thin client for several months
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| 09:23 | ..
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> !SCREEN_08 | Punjabby:
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| 09:24 | <ltsp> alkisg: Error: "Punjabby:" is not a valid command.
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| 09:24 | <Punjabby> well, Im actually on the thinclient atm
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> !SCREEN_08 | echo Punjabby:
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| 09:24 | <ltsp> Punjabby: SCREEN_08: To get a root shell on a Debian thin client, put SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07 to lts.conf.
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| 09:24 | <Punjabby> i would have to rebuild the image
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 09:24 | Ah, you mean that you don't have a fat chroot now?
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| 09:24 | <Punjabby> um, because its built for thin client options atm
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| 09:24 | dont I have to update theimage when I edit the lts.conf?
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> OK, just install some desktop environment in the thin chroot then and come back when you're ready to start troubleshooting
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| 09:24 | <Punjabby> sir
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| 09:25 | <alkisg> Or come back after 8-10 hours when the debian ltsp maintainer usually hangs around
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| 09:25 | <Punjabby> when I chroot to /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get screws up, wont let me install anything
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| 09:25 | <alkisg> He may be able to tell you more about available backports for squeeze etc
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| 09:25 | You need to use the "ltsp-chroot" command
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| 09:25 | <Punjabby> orly
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| 09:25 | <alkisg> That mounts /proc and other stuff needed for your apt-get to work
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| 09:25 | <Punjabby> nice
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| 09:25 | groovy
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| 09:25 | also another question
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| 09:26 | <alkisg> You can also do that part manually, if you do what the person told you in the mailing list about mounting /proc
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| 09:26 | <Punjabby> is it really neccesary to rebuild the entire image every time I edit the lts.conf??
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| 09:26 | <alkisg> In debian the default is to use NFS
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| 09:26 | From what you're saying, am I to assume that you ran ltsp-update-image which made you switch to nbd?
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| 09:27 | <Punjabby> slow down your going to make my head explode
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| 09:27 | lol
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| 09:27 | <alkisg> You're not supposed to run ltsp-update-image on debian unless you know what you're doing
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| 09:27 | <Punjabby> well sir, thats how I make the changes in lts.conf stick
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> You shouldn't have to. Question: did you run ltsp-update-image or not?
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| 09:28 | <Punjabby> I can switch between thin & fat by simple commenting out the fat lines and updating the image
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| 09:28 | yes
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| 09:28 | and it works
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| 09:28 | im using thin client now
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| 09:28 | talking to you on the machine
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> Yes, but at the cost of having to run it on every chroot change
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| 09:28 | <Punjabby> oh yeah I assumed I would have to do that
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> I.e. you switched from NFS, which is the default for Debian, to NBD, which is the default for Ubuntu
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| 09:29 | <Punjabby> well someone should publish a comprehensive howto on installing ltsp for debian squeeze, including thin and fat clients
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> So now you should either switch back or start using /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf instead of /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
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| 09:29 | <Punjabby> its due to a severe lack of documentation
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> Probably, fell free to contact the debian people and put it on the wiki
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| 09:30 | <Punjabby> there is no lts.conf in my tftp dir
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| 09:30 | I looked for it, it aint there
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> Yes, you're supposed to create one if you switched to NBD
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| 09:30 | <Punjabby> I didnt know I switchd
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| 09:30 | lol
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| 09:32 | what happens if im running nbd and the conf is there and also in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc ?
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| 09:32 | well I cant boot unless nfsroot is specified in the dhcp server, so, Im assuming im not using nbd
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> tftp overrides /opt
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| 09:33 | <Punjabby> TFTP_DIRECTORY="/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386"
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> If you're not using NBD, then running ltsp-update-image shouldn't be needed to update your lts.conf in /opt
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| 09:34 | <Punjabby> k
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> You can verify that if you get a local shell on the client
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| 09:34 | <Punjabby> how can I tell if im running nbd?
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| 09:34 | I mean I know nbd is installed and the service is running
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> (11:34:15 πμ) alkisg: You can verify that if you get a local shell on the client
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| 09:34 | !localxterm
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| 09:34 | <ltsp> alkisg: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually run on the server. However, if in a client you run 'ltsp-localapps xterm', a local xterm will open, and any commands that you enter there will be executed locally on the client.
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| 09:34 | <Punjabby> yes yes yes
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| 09:35 | <alkisg> Another way to get a local shell
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| 09:35 | And just check for an nbd-client process there
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| 09:35 | <Punjabby> yeah thats the thing really is I want fart clients and not thin clients
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| 09:35 | erm
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> Compressed NBD is more than 5 times faster than NFS, so it's good for fat clients
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| 09:37 | <Punjabby> orly
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| 09:37 | yeah I havent installed a gb switch yet
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| 09:37 | and I see in snmp using mikrotiks dude monitor, this uses heaps of traffic
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| 09:38 | I heard you could speed things up by not using ssh
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> Not for fat clients
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| 09:38 | <Punjabby> wut?
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| 09:38 | only for thin clients eh?
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> Could you please use normal words? English is not my native language...
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| 09:38 | <Punjabby> what happens if you use the LDM_DIRECT=True on a fat client?
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| 09:39 | <sep> Punjabby, nothingm, since ldm is not the display manager on fat clients
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| 09:39 | (normally)
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> It is
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| 09:39 | LDM_DIRECTX indeed does nothing though
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| 09:39 | <sep> (not on _my_ fat clients then)
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| 09:39 | ;)
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> sep: are you using the LTSP implementation of fat clients though?
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| 09:39 | <Punjabby> sorry my enflish bad, I am indian
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> Or a custom one?
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| 09:40 | <sep> a customized one
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> Punjabby: I mean all those orly wut etc, I'd have to get my dictionary to understand them
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| 09:40 | sep: that's why
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| 09:40 | <Punjabby> orly=oh really
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> By default, LDM is used for fat clients
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| 09:40 | <Punjabby> wut=what
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| 09:40 | should I be using LDM?? and how can I tell if im using it? I did install it on the server
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| 09:41 | will fat client boot without it?
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| 09:41 | <alkisg> OK, I don't think that it's worth it to type 1 less char (wut vs what) and have the others looking for dictionaries :)
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| 09:41 | <Punjabby> I was thinking that might explain why I cannot boot fat client
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| 09:41 | lolwut?
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| 09:42 | <alkisg> And the LDM scripts, when they detect that LTSP_FATCLIENT=True, run the session locally instead of on the server with ssh
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| 09:42 | Punjabby is now known as fixnichols | |
| 09:42 | fixnichols is now known as fixer | |
| 09:42 | <alkisg> So LDM_DIRECTX does nothing for fat clients
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| 09:42 | <fixer> k well when I have fat client enabled in my lts.conf itll log me in, and not finish loading the desktop
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| 09:43 | just sits there with the mouse cursor andnothing else
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| 09:43 | and what looks like a terminal prompt in the top left corner appear
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> OK, that's where the `ps ax` would help. Anyway, /me goes back to coding...
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| 09:43 | <fixer> grr
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| 09:44 | thats heaps of monkey work to do that
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| 09:44 | well thanks for trying to help but its 3am here
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| 09:44 | and I have clients to meet tommarow
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| 09:44 | I must rest
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> Good bye Panjabby, please don't change nicknames too so that we remember your case
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| 09:44 | <fixer> lol
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| 09:45 | wut?
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| 09:45 | heheh
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| 11:25 | <islander> hello
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| 11:26 | <islander> does anyone know a way to install a keylogger for ltsp users?
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| 11:28 | im trying logkeys + local-apps, but i can't get past the .configure step because it doesnt see input devices on chroot
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| 13:19 | <Punjabby> w00t
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| 13:21 | * Hyperbyte sighs. | |
| 13:23 | <Punjabby> hey, not my fault I cant code like you genious
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| 13:24 | <Hyperbyte> Oh.
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| 13:24 | <Punjabby> ok, soz ima get on my primary box and try to troubleshoot this
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| 13:24 | brb
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| 13:24 | * Hyperbyte frowns. | |
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| 13:27 | <Punjabby> booting this bby up, hoping it loads that conf from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
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| 13:28 | * Hyperbyte whistles. | |
| 13:28 | <Punjabby> and it did
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| 13:28 | ok, now, wow it loaded
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| 13:28 | prolly running as thin client tho
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| 13:29 | <Punjabby> yup sound is coming from the ltsp server
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| 13:29 | not the client
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| 13:29 | should be comin from the client not the server
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| 13:30 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, thank you for this live coverage of you trying out LTSP. I feel it enriches my life, and the lives of everyone in this channel.
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| 13:30 | <Punjabby> testing video,its definately using the cpu on the server
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| 13:30 | well Im trying to get thick client booting
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| 13:30 | I figure this is the place
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| 13:30 | <Hyperbyte> You mean fat.
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| 13:31 | <Punjabby> right
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| 13:31 | <Hyperbyte> Yes, this is the place. If you need help with something, you ask a question.
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| 13:31 | <Punjabby> yes, well how do I get it to boot thick client silly
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| 13:31 | lol
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| 13:31 | <Hyperbyte> If everyone in here would constantly say "now I'm creating a new user account for the new colleague arrived today"
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| 13:31 | "Now I'm monitoring bandwith usage on my SDSL connection"
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| 13:31 | <Punjabby> debian squeeze, ive got it booting thin client fine, but need fat client instead
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| 13:32 | <Hyperbyte> "Hey I've just cleaned up 20 GB files on my fileserver"... etc
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| 13:32 | It's boring man! :-) Ask questions which we can help with.
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| 13:32 | <Punjabby> now, I had created the image, and used the lts.conf located in /opt/ltsp/
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| 13:32 | ive deleted that conf
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| 13:32 | and am now using a cp of it in the /var/lib/tftp dir as was suggested
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| 13:33 | <Hyperbyte> Which how-to did you follow for setting up your fat client?
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| 13:33 | <Punjabby> well since nobody to my knowledge has publish a compregensive howto for debian squeeze...
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| 13:33 | I had to look at heaps of them till I got it working
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| 13:33 | <Hyperbyte> What distro/version?
| |
| 13:33 | <Punjabby> Debian Squeeze
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| 13:34 | <Punjabby> Linux deviant.evil 2.6.32-5-686 #1 SMP Mon Jan 16 16:04:25 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
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| 13:34 | mainly the ubuntu tuts
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| 13:35 | I just shut the client down
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| 13:35 | and I got this in my syslogs
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| 13:35 | Mar 11 22:34:49 ltsp73 kernel: [ 446.078963] nbd9: NBD_DISCONNECT
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| 13:35 | Mar 11 22:34:49 ltsp73 kernel: [ 446.083239] nbd9: Receive control failed (result -32)
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| 13:35 | Mar 11 22:34:49 ltsp73 kernel: [ 446.083312] nbd9: queue cleared
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| 13:35 | so, guess im using nbd then eh?
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| 13:36 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, you wouldn't get nbd messages if you aren't using nbd.
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| 13:36 | <Punjabby> right
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| 13:36 | thats what I was thinkin too
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| 13:37 | well hmm, well now that im using the lts.conf in my tftp dir, apparently my client is ignoring it
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| 13:37 | coz I have fat client set to true and its still loading thin
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| 13:37 | guess I gotta update the image ?
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| 13:38 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, I know -zip- about Debian. But from reading back the logs, and seeing what you've just told me - I would reinstall and try again if I were you.l
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| 13:38 | <Punjabby> no
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| 13:38 | I will NOT do that
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| 13:38 | ive reinstalled like 10 times
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| 13:38 | to hell with that
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| 13:38 | Ill troubleshoot till I figure it out
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| 13:38 | <Hyperbyte> And this time don't fuck it up
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| 13:39 | <Punjabby> lol right
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| 13:39 | <Hyperbyte> That's my advice.
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| 13:39 | You're trying to switch Debian (which uses NFS by default, and is made to use NFS) over to NBD.
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| 13:39 | <Punjabby> yeah thats whats confusing to me
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| 13:39 | coz I know its using both
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| 13:39 | <Hyperbyte> You're not troubleshooting LTSP on Debian, you're reinventing the wheel.
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| 13:39 | <Punjabby> at least it appears to be
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| 13:40 | well Im sorry, redhat is for loosers
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| 13:40 | Debian is KING
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| 13:40 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, that's a really dumb statement.
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| 13:40 | <Punjabby> lets not go there
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| 13:40 | lol
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| 13:40 | really
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| 13:41 | <Hyperbyte> Why are you trying to start distro wars?
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| 13:41 | <Punjabby> lol, sorry
| |
| 13:41 | its late im delirous
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| 13:41 | I cant even spell
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| 13:41 | lol
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| 13:42 | ok so if I was to create a fat-client image
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| 13:42 | any thing besides ltsp-update-image to get the lts.conf updated?
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| 13:42 | there guys tellin me to chroot
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| 13:43 | and do this and that
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| 13:43 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, stop.
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| 13:43 | <Punjabby> ....
| |
| 13:44 | hey guy, im tryin to have a little fun while figurin this out
| |
| 13:44 | <Hyperbyte> You're flooding the channel with messages, you're insulting RedHat users, you're trying very advanced things with LTSP without understand the basics...
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| 13:44 | <Punjabby> hey gotta break some eggs to make an omelete
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| 13:45 | ok, so Im a jerk, but look, I figure this out, ill pass the knowledge on to others
| |
| 13:46 | basically, if I set fatclient true in the conf, it logs me in, I see success in the ssh logs, but it hangs
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| 13:46 | <Punjabby> mouse cursor and bash prompt in the top left corner
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| 13:47 | is it a problem if my server has proprietary nvidia drivers and my fatclient has an ati card?
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| 13:47 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, like I said - I know -ZIP- about Debian.
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| 13:48 | <Punjabby> red head?
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| 13:48 | <Hyperbyte> Take a step back here - X runs on the client. Regardless if it's thin or fat.
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| 13:48 | So whatever drivers, X modules, etc you have on the server, are irrelevant. What matters is what there is inside the image.
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| 13:48 | The only difference between thin and fat clients is in where the applications run.
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| 13:49 | <Punjabby> yeah well if I just run ltsp-make-image or w/e it makes an image based off the server right?
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| 13:49 | thats why I was thinking perhaps video driver issue
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| 13:49 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, as far as I know (and again, about Debian, that is nothing), the client is based on the operating system of the server.
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| 13:50 | But not the configuration or the software.
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| 13:50 | <Punjabby> I read on a tut, that you must chroot to the image dir and install nfs-client for fat client to work
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| 13:50 | but I have no idea if thats even the issue
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| 13:51 | <Hyperbyte> Don't know.
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| 13:51 | Install Ubuntu and I can tell you. In fact, if you install Ubuntu there's even a how-to.
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| 13:51 | <Punjabby> Well my opinion , as irrelevant as it may be, is that Ubuntu is a vile bastardization of Debian and I wont touch it
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| 13:52 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, the moment you learn to let go of your bias towards certain distros, is the moment you find happiness and peace in your life.
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| 13:52 | <Punjabby> no sir
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| 13:52 | there are reasons I dont use Ubuntu or Redhat bases os
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| 13:53 | they do things wrong and ass backwards
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| 13:53 | in redhat
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| 13:53 | <Hyperbyte> Punjabby, stop.
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| 13:53 | <Punjabby> and Ubuntus networking is a nightmare, particularly wireless
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| 13:53 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 13:53 | <Punjabby> your right
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| 13:53 | im going to fuck off and fix this myself you useless cunt
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| 13:54 | <Hyperbyte> Hahah
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| 13:54 | <knipwim> jeez
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| 13:55 | <Hyperbyte> Hi knipwim. :-)
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| 13:55 | <knipwim> hey Hyperbyte
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| 13:55 | <Hyperbyte> Saw you went on vacation - where'd you go?
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| 13:55 | <knipwim> les menuires, snowboarding
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| 13:56 | and it was great
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| 13:56 | <Hyperbyte> Ah! My sister went on a snowboarding trip on saturday
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| 13:56 | <knipwim> 2 days of fresh snow, and sunny for the other days
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| 13:56 | <Hyperbyte> With her school, she's going to Saalberg.
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| 13:57 | <knipwim> nice
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| 13:57 | <Hyperbyte> Hah, no way. :-) She studies sports & activities.
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| 13:58 | So they're going there to sport, but then lots of it.
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| 13:58 | I believe she has to do at least 6 hours snowboarding each day.
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| 13:58 | <knipwim> sam here
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| 13:58 | 10 to 17 :)
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| 13:59 | i'm a real fanatic
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| 13:59 | only a week snowboarding a year, you got to take all the time you have
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| 14:01 | <Hyperbyte> :-D
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| 17:41 | <gk4> hey, I'm looking for a USB over IP recommendation so that USB devices attached to thin client can be used by application on the server. Any suggestions?
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| 17:50 | <veloutin> I thought fuse already took care of that
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| 17:50 | oh, USB devices, not just storage?
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| 17:50 | <alkisg> LTSP only supports usb filesystem devices, for other projects like http://usbip.sourceforge.net/ probably this isn't the correct channel to ask, not many people have mentioned it
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| 17:54 | <Hyperbyte> !learn usb as LTSP only supports usb filesystem devices, for other projects like http://usbip.sourceforge.net/ probably this isn't the correct channel to ask, not many people have mentioned it
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| 17:54 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: The operation succeeded.
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| 18:45 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, um ... about those fatclient changes...
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| 18:46 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I thought it would make installing debian fat chroots easier... no?
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| 18:46 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i think the logic is backwards ... it only autodetects when LTSP_FATCLIENT is unset
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| 18:46 | <alkisg> Not need for a plugin if xsessions are used for autodetection
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| 18:46 | Right, because we want someone to be able to override the autodetetion
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| 18:47 | ?
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| 18:47 | <vagrantc> er, only autodetects if LTSP_FATCLIENT *is* set.
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> Oh, let me see...
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| 18:48 | test -z "$LTSP_FATCLIENT" || return
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| 18:48 | "we requires LTSP_FATCLIENT to be unset, otherwise return and don't use autodetection"
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| 18:49 | Would you prefer it as `test -n "$LTSP_FATCLIENT" && return` ?
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| 18:52 | <vagrantc> well, if it's set to LTSP_FATCLIENT=false, it seems like it shouldn't change LTSP_FATCLIENT ...
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| 18:52 | and if it's set to LTSP_FATCLIENT=true, it shouldn't bother to check...
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| 18:53 | <alkisg> ...and that's what it does currently... I'm not seeing the problem
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| 18:53 | It doesn't call "boolean_is_true", it checks if it has any value
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| 18:53 | <vagrantc> it OVERRIDES the way LTSP_FATCLIENT is currently configured.
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| 18:53 | ah, i'm misreading it ...
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| 18:53 | || not &&
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> :)
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> sorry for the noise!
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> (08:49:09 μμ) alkisg: Would you prefer it as `test -n "$LTSP_FATCLIENT" && return` ?
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> so what's happened in the last week ... i've barely been doing anything
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| 18:55 | * alkisg has mostly been working on epoptes | |
| 18:56 | <alkisg> The hardest 6 lines I've ever written in shell, took me a dozen hours :D http://paste.debian.net/159478/
| |
| 18:56 | (to switch to using a vnc password instead of trusting the whole localnet)
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| 19:07 | <Llama_be> knipwim, or anybody else familiar with Gentoo: ltsp-build-client fails for me. I have to add "-zlib hwdb" to my USE flags, and "app-arch/libarchive zlib" to my package.use . Is this a bug or an error on my end?
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| 19:12 | * vagrantc puzzles over http://bugs.debian.org/663081 | |
| 19:13 | <vagrantc> i couldn't fully reproduce the behavior with a thin client, but i guess they're using a fat client?
| |
| 19:14 | don't really understand how gnome-session vs. gnome-session-fallback works, or how to tell when you're using gnome-session vs. gnome-fallback ... although onn initial login, it did tell me it was switching to fallback mode.
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| 19:16 | <alkisg> $ ps -fC gnome-session
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| 19:16 | alkisg 1972 1585 0 19:33 ? 00:00:00 gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback
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| 19:17 | <alkisg> Maybe they have something different in their .dmrc files. Dmrc handling was broken until a while ago.
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> also, did y'all ever figure out that ALT-# to get a root shell issue?
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| 19:19 | i couldn't reproduce on debian, although it does switch to another virtual desktop without LDM running
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| 19:20 | alkisg: yeah, i was thinking i'd ask more about their .dmrc files...
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| 19:21 | <alkisg> I think ubuntu wasn't affected by those xorg alt+# issues
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| 19:21 | Or was it related to the wicked wm?
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| 19:21 | * alkisg didn't try it... | |
| 19:23 | <vagrantc> it was specificly reported on ubuntu
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| 19:24 | <alkisg> I'm probably thinking of another Alt+# problem then, the one that could be used to bypass locked screens etc :)
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> yeah, the one about wicked wm
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| 19:25 | <muppis> Got local root shell from login in 11.10
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| 19:25 | <alkisg> Why do we need a wm at ldm?
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| 19:25 | For the preferences dialog?
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> ask stgraber and mgariepy
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| 19:26 | if we need it at all, we need to strip it down considerably further.
| |
| 19:26 | what i don't get is why it spawns a root shell on ubuntu, but not on debian.
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| 19:27 | <alkisg> Maybe that shortcut is reserved for something else on debian
| |
| 19:27 | <vagrantc> on debian, it just switches virtual desktops, as far as i can tell.
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| 19:27 | so what in ubuntu is triggering it?
| |
| 19:28 | maybe it's not actually wicked wm on ubuntu? something catching the signal?
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| 19:28 | <alkisg> Let me pinpoint it...
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| 19:29 | <stgraber> we probably should turn off the keybindings entirely in wwm
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> and yank the code...
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| 19:29 | <alkisg> stgraber: why do we need it in the first place?
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| 19:30 | <vagrantc> a pretty ugly security hole...
| |
| 19:31 | <stgraber> alkisg: because without a VM managing multiple screen in a fullscreen gtk app is a pain, we also wanted a WM so ltsp-cluster can give access to the web management tool the first time a thin client boots
| |
| 19:31 | and for potential addition of citrix/vmware/... clients that need to show an additional window before login
| |
| 19:32 | <alkisg> Multiple screens are broken in ldm now though, right? I saw multiple bugs about it...
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| 19:32 | <stgraber> the actual security hole is that the greeter runs as root
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| 19:32 | <alkisg> alt+1=shows ldm as usual
| |
| 19:32 | alt +2 to 9=shows ldm without the buttons
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| 19:32 | Enter on those => opens root term
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| 19:32 | <vagrantc> that's just bad security practice, not inherrantly a security hole
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| 19:32 | <alkisg> vagrantc: did you press enter?
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| 19:32 | <stgraber> alkisg: it's broken in a different way than it used to but yeah it's still a bit broken :)
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| 19:33 | <vagrantc> alkisg: oh, i missed the enter
| |
| 19:33 | oh look, a root shell!
| |
| 19:33 | yup, debian's affected too
| |
| 19:33 | <alkisg> Fun :(
| |
| 19:33 | <muppis> :/
| |
| 19:33 | <stgraber> looking at wwm, it indeed has a keybinding for xterm on XK_Return
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| 19:34 | <vagrantc> needs an audit to pull out all keybindings...
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| 19:35 | <stgraber> pushing
| |
| 19:35 | fixed
| |
| 19:35 | <vagrantc> given that this affects released versions of ubuntu, this should probably require a CVE or something?
| |
| 19:35 | <stgraber> I made keytab[] empty in main.c
| |
| 19:36 | I guess, it actually affects everyone and has been for a while...
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| 19:36 | <vagrantc> well, no "released" version of debian is affected.
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| 19:37 | the wwm stuff was introduced with ldm 2.2.x, yes?
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| 19:38 | <stgraber> vagrantc: yeah, ldm-2.2 was the first one to have it
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| 19:38 | <alkisg> Ah so Lucid (that greek schools use) is fine, np here
| |
| 19:40 | <stgraber> I'm doing a build test of the current trunk, if that works, I'd suggest we release 2.2.7 ASAP
| |
| 19:41 | <vagrantc> agreed.
| |
| 19:41 | i'll test build too
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| 19:41 | <stgraber> ok, it builds fine
| |
| 19:41 | vagrantc: can you tag+upload to Debian today?
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| 19:41 | <vagrantc> stgraber: yup.
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| 19:42 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I'll take care of cherry-pick + upload to the affected Ubuntu versions through -security so hopefully I'll get a CVE number at the same time
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| 19:42 | <vagrantc> muppis: and proper credits should go to you!
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| 19:43 | what would we have to do to run the greeter as non-root?
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| 19:43 | lot of plugins assume some pretty rootful things
| |
| 19:43 | <muppis> vagrantc, least what I can do.
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| 19:44 | <vagrantc> muppis: just credit "muppis" or some other name?
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| 19:45 | <muppis> vagrantc, you can put my full name, Tenho Tuhkala
| |
| 19:47 | <stgraber> bug report done, and sent over to the Ubuntu Security team with information for proper credits in the CVE
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| 19:52 | vagrantc: only spawn the greeter as the user, it talks through a socket/pipe to the backend already
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> stgraber: thanks!
| |
| 19:52 | <stgraber> vagrantc: so the backend would run as root but the frontend would run as nobody
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> stgraber: we really should do that.
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| 19:53 | <stgraber> vagrantc: where was the keybinding bug initially mentioned? mailing-list/irc/bug? (forwarding question from the security team :))
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| 19:53 | <alkisg> Btw, how do I move windows on that WM?
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| 19:54 | <stgraber> alkisg: there was a keybinding for it (as of 5 minutes ago ;))
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| 19:54 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 19:54 | <highvoltage> .wub 19
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> stgraber: muppis mentioned it on irc.
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| 19:55 | <stgraber> ok
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> stgraber: might be able to find mention of it in the logs.
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| 19:55 | <muppis> A day out two ago.
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| 19:56 | or..
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| 19:59 | <Llama_be> if I think I have found bugs in Gentoo LTSP (and it really is Gentoo specific I believe), where should I best report it? Gentoo bugtracker? Or should I just hang around here to see when knipwim is around and tell him?
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| 20:02 | <stgraber> vagrantc: bugfixes are ready for Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10. For 12.04 I'll just sync from Debian whenever the new release lands.
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> stgraber: working on it now.
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| 20:02 | <stgraber> vagrantc: the security team will now do the uploads for me and said they asked for a CVE on the oss-sec mailing list, can take a few days to have it assigned though so we better not wait on it
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| 20:03 | <vagrantc> stgraber: yeah, no sense waiting for it.
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| 20:03 | <jamil> hi vagrantc
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| 20:04 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 20:05 | <vagrantc> Llama_be: i'm not a gentoo user, but i'd think reporting on the bugtracker would be a good idea
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| 20:12 | <alkisg> I think that we should move configure_sound_volume to the udev script, and start_sound to the ldm script
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| 20:12 | <muppis> But now to get some sleep.
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> So basically ltsp-init-common would only contain start_screen_sessions... :)
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| 20:13 | 'night muppis
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| 20:13 | <muppis> Nights
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| 20:14 | <stgraber> vagrantc: CVE-2012-1166
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| 20:22 | <stgraber> yeah! my second CVE number (not sure it's something to be proud of though ;))
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| 20:23 | vagrantc: http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2012/q1/619 if you need to point to the CVE allocation (as it doesn't contain anything at this point)
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| 20:25 | <vagrantc> stgraber: probably don't need to.
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| 20:26 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I did a 2.2.6 => 2.2.7 test here and reproduced the bug on 2.2.6 and confirmed the fix on 2.2.7 (current trunk)
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| 20:26 | so I'll be tagging 2.2.7 now and send an e-mail to ltsp-devel and ltsp-discuss about it
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> When the CVE problem is done, if you guys have time maybe we can talk about the ltsp-common-functions problem (common file), which prohibits parallel installation of ltsp-client and ltsp-server
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| 20:27 | <stgraber> 2.2.7 tagged
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| 20:29 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i was already in the middle of doing that...
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| 20:29 | stgraber: did you push already?
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| 20:30 | looks like so...
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| 20:30 | rebuild #3...
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| 20:31 | <stgraber> vagrantc: yeah, I didn't generate tarballs though, just tagged it so I have a version number to reference in the paperwork
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| 20:35 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i had a minor dependency added on procps, hopefully that doesn't cause you problems.
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| 20:35 | stgraber: i *think* it's correct, although on further review it's maybe not needed, as it calls prgrep on the server...
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| 20:36 | <stgraber> vagrantc: that's fine, procps is priority: required on Ubuntu and ships in ubuntu-minimal, so it's a no-op for us
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc> oh wow, gnome3 on debian supports ltsp shutdowns...
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| 20:44 | but not reboot, for some reason...
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> ??!! really?!
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| 20:45 | <vagrantc> oh, no, i was running a fatclient.
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| 20:45 | * alkisg gave up on that and uses epoptes to logoff+shutdown/reboot with a single click :D | |
| 20:46 | <vagrantc> lxde supports it in debian testing/unstable, and with a 3 line patch in stable.
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> There should be a cross-de policy about how the session signals the DM what to do after it finishes
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| 20:47 | E.g. return 0 = logout, 1 = reboot, 2 = shutdown etc
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| 20:47 | <vagrantc> stgraber: uploaded ldm 2:2.2.7-1 to debian unstable.
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> Then we could handle it from the ldm scripts without having to send patches everywhere
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| 20:48 | <vagrantc> would be nice.
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> Maybe there already exists something similar... how does lightdm know that the kde shutdown button was pressed?
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| 20:49 | <stgraber> alkisg: there's some freedesktop "standard" using dbus for that, but we can't use it :(
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| 20:49 | vagrantc, alkisg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/880953/ does cover it all?
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| 20:49 | <vagrantc> i think through consolekit or something?
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| 20:49 | <alkisg> stgraber: we could catch it on the server with a dbus listener and set the appropriate xprop
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| 20:50 | stgraber: not alt+enter, plain enter
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| 20:50 | Alt+2 to 8, and enter
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| 20:51 | It was probably ignored on "workspace" 1 because the text entry box catched the enter
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| 20:51 | <vagrantc> right
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| 20:52 | <stgraber> ah right, alt+enter was just my trick to get it to happen from the first workspace
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> so, i had adventures in LTSP on powerpc yesterday ...
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| 20:54 | the yaboot code is abysmal ... makes it almost impossible to support both 32 and 64 bit powerpc machines.
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| 20:54 | well, the LTSP yaboot code is abysmal
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| 20:55 | we really shouldn't take over $tftproot/yaboot and $tftproot/yaboot.conf from ltsp-update-kernels
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| 20:55 | <alkisg> vagrantc: could you take a look at that? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/950945
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| 20:56 | <vagrantc> i've been able to work around issues with pxelinux by passing setting up $tftproot/pxelinux* instead of pointing clients to $tftproot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 ... but that's not possible with yaboot, because yaboot defaults to using $tftproot/yaboot.conf
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> I don't think we have a real reason to disallow installing ltsp-client alongside ltsp-server now
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| 20:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: there's a file conflict, but in general, probably not
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| 20:57 | <alkisg> One use case would be to serve the edubuntu squashfs live dvd image over the network, so that the live dvd supports fat clients without needing a chroot at all
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| 20:57 | <alkisg> So, to do that, we could have that file duplicated, with different names, on the server/client packages
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| 20:57 | client-common-functions, server-common-functions
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| 20:57 | We'd have to change the upstream code a bit of course
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: right, i thought about that recently.
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| 20:58 | alkisg: alternately shipping an ltsp-common package.
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> I don't know if it's worth it to have an ltsp-common... yup
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> right, it's a bit small..
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> technically, they really ought to conflict at the moment.
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| 20:59 | alkisg: the cheaper workaround is to have each divert the other's common-functions at package install time
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| 21:00 | but that's kind of messy.
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| 21:00 | and potentially out of sync if the versions differ.
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> Isn't postinst too late for that?
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> you can do diversions in preinst, i think.
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| 21:00 | it's cheaper from an upstream perspective, expensive from a packagers perspective.
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> And preinst happens before the files are checked for collisions?
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| 21:01 | <vagrantc> before they're unpacked, yes.
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> Also I don't know if all distros support diversions...
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| 21:01 | <vagrantc> so the long-term option would definitely be to move them around.
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| 21:01 | although to minimize the cost, we could leave one or the other as is, and only change one of them.
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| 21:02 | guess we could also ship them differently, and use alternatives
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| 21:02 | might be easier than diversions.
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| 21:03 | <alkisg> I thought about that too, but I didn't know if all distro packages support alternatives...
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc> sure.
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| 21:03 | <alkisg> But it does sound kinda messy with alternatives too, it's not like we're offering alternate versions
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> it's actually the same file in either case.
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| 21:05 | how many functions are even in there, these days?
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> There are some, and it'll probably grow
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| 21:06 | (while ltsp-init-common will shrink dramatically)
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| 21:06 | <vagrantc> some of those seem server-specific, at least.
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| 21:09 | * vagrantc tests ldm against alt-enter too | |
| 21:10 | <vagrantc> that alt-enter keybinding is handy, though!
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| 21:12 | <alkisg> Maybe we could map it to "LTSPROCKS" :P
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> there is an LDM_DEBUG_SHELL or something like that ... might be useful to have an option to enable, but then hide it again
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| 21:13 | although a hidden option is kind of dangerous
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| 21:23 | <vagrantc> gah.
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| 21:23 | my tarball contains the changelog from when *i* committed 2.2.7
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| 21:44 | <stgraber> vagrantc: so 2.2.7 in debian doesn't have the bugfix? or it's simply not a perfectly identical tarball?
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| 21:47 | <vagrantc> stgraber: it's got the fix, just the Changelog doesn't match bzr history.
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| 21:50 | <vagrantc> stgraber: the only difference is who committed and tagged 2.2.7 ...
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| 21:51 | * vagrantc finally gets around to testing squeeze-backports of recent ltsp/ldm/ltspfs | |
| 21:51 | <stgraber> vagrantc: ok, I guess we can live with that :)
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| 22:06 | <vagrantc> wow, backports of ltsp, ltspfs and ldm worked without a hitch!
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| 22:06 | NBD handling is probably borked, and should technically depend on newer versions of nbd-server/nbd-client ... but it works
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| 23:07 | * vagrantc wonders if FreeBSD can take init= as an argument... | |
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| 23:12 | <stgraber> vagrantc: expect another epoptes upload soon ;) I just filed a bunch of bugs against it on Launchpad ;)
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| 23:12 | <vagrantc> busy, busy.
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| 23:18 | <vagrantc> stgraber: regarding the crash in a VM, try a different resolution.
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| 23:19 | stgraber: er, different color depth.
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| 23:19 | thought we applied a fix for that, but maybe it broke again.
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| 23:21 | <stgraber> vagrantc: ah, could be it indeed, will try next time (flushed the VMs already). I was running with kvm's default config under libvirt
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| 23:23 | <vagrantc> stgraber: yeah, i can reproduce it in my setups. running with 16-bit color depth seems to work fine, and real hardware as well.
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| 23:23 | i mean, running the default color depth on real hardware also seems to work.
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