IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 March 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:02 | <gnunux> hi
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| 02:11 | <Appiah> \o
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| 02:58 | <AndyGraybeal> morning everyone.
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| 03:17 | <AndyGraybeal> how okay is it to run normal PC's on the thin client network.. or printers?
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| 03:18 | <Appiah> its okay
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| 03:29 | <AndyGraybeal> thank you Appiah
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| 03:40 | <AndyGraybeal> i'm in ubuntu 8.10. i would like my terminal clients to reach another network. i've read this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT .. i'm scared i might hurt my current setup though. i'm running kvm/libvirt vm's bridged through 192.168.2.200 (internet facing); my terminal clients are hosted off of the 10.0.0.1 interface. currently iptables is not enabled. if i run that iptables command, will i mess up
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| 04:24 | <nosedrum> Hi all !
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| 04:24 | I have a little question
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| 04:25 | this morning I have a clients of a ltsp server crashing on boot with a Kernel Panic
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| 04:25 | a eth0 problem
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| 04:25 | so after some search i put a *complete* ip=xxx parameter there:
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| 04:25 | <client-ip>:<server-ip>:<gw-ip>:<netmask>:<hostname>:<device>:<autoconf>
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| 04:26 | on /var/lib/tftpboot/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 04:26 | and a client boot well
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| 04:26 | but my question is
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| 04:26 | how fix all clients ?*
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| 04:26 | <ogra> fix your dhcp server
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| 04:27 | it worked before ?
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| 04:27 | <nosedrum> yes
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| 04:27 | new agency open 2 days ago
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| 04:27 | 1 server 3 clients
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| 04:27 | <ogra> did you add a new router or something to your network ... i.e. some device or PC that could ship with a running dhcp server ?
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| 04:28 | <nosedrum> ohoh
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| 04:28 | <ogra> the symptoms above sound very much like you are running a second dhcpd
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| 04:28 | which isnt so good for netbooting :)
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| 04:28 | <nosedrum> one of my team on site tell me "i have hard reset the bewan router..." for another case
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| 04:29 | Thx for idea !
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| 04:38 | <tthorb> An update on freezing in Karmic on clients with i915:
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| 04:39 | No clients have freezed with "acpi = off"
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| 04:40 | <tthorb> X_DEVICE_OPTION_01 = "\"DRI\" \"false\""
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| 04:40 | doesn't matter
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| 04:40 | and X_DEVICE_OPTION_02 = "\"AccelMethod\" \"NoAccel\"" doesn't matter either
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| 04:41 | But - I cross fingers for stability with acpi=off
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| 05:09 | <AndyGraybeal> tthorb: i915 is intel video driver?
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| 05:10 | <harshal> hey, I'm working on implementing kiwi-ltsp for fat client,by following this guide http://tinyurl.com/yggbbz4
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| 05:11 | but i can't get the kiwi with aoe service started (kla)
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| 05:11 | <ogra> ask in #kiwi-ltsp
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| 05:11 | there are not many people in here knowing about kiwi at all
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| 05:13 | <harshal> ogra: oh alrite, but then noone seems to be online there at most times.. Thnx though..
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| 05:14 | <ogra> sadly suse decided to use kiwi to wrap it around ltsp ... if you have actual ltsp questions we surely can help but the image building is beyond ltsp in this case
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| 05:16 | <harshal> yea i understand tht, but m just stuck with this for the moment.
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| 05:36 | <stgraber> alkisg: using -c '' was to avoid using two leases per thin client
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| 05:36 | <alkisg> stgraber: but why would that be desirable?
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| 05:37 | <stgraber> because otherwise I need 10000 IPs instead of only 5000 :)
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| 05:37 | <alkisg> Couldn't you configure your server to deal with a standard VCI?
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| 05:37 | <stgraber> that's assuming you can configure the DHCP server ...
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| 05:38 | <alkisg> How about pxelinux.cfg/default? You could put the vci there, with the old code
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| 05:38 | i.e. clientid=''
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| 05:38 | * alkisg has no problem in any way, as he uses proxydhcp, just trying to help with that launchpad bug report... | |
| 05:39 | <stgraber> that could work yes
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| 05:39 | though I'm suspecting that a lot of people will have the issue for only a few using Windows dhcp ...
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| 05:40 | <alkisg> What I don't understand is *why* sending '' is saving the second lease
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| 05:40 | Sounds like a dhcp bug, not a feature...
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| 05:40 | *dhcp3-server
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| 05:40 | Shouldn't we send PXEClient for that?
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| 05:40 | <stgraber> I can probably poke the guy who did the code analysis of udhcpc at Revolution Linux
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| 05:41 | <stgraber> (once he's awake ;))
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| 05:41 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 05:42 | Well I guess defaulting to '' and giving the windows users the possibility to change it from either their windows config or with pxelinux.cfg/default, would suffice as well
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| 05:43 | <stgraber> I'll be in the air and then on the train for the next few hours, you can poke mgariepy about that as he's the one who first noticed the issue and he's working with both Linux and Windows DHCP.
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| 05:43 | <alkisg> OK. Have a nice trip.
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| 05:43 | <stgraber> He'll also be able to ping Julien at Revolution Linux to know more about what was wrong in udhcpc
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| 06:11 | <tthorb> AndyGraybeal: Yes, it's the intel driver on clients with 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]
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| 06:12 | I have 10 clients like that, and users got randomly freezed... (but not me(!))
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| 06:13 | But - I'll wait a couple of days before celebration!
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| 07:52 | <_UsUrPeR_> morning all
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| 07:53 | has anybody attempted to use Google Chromium as a localapp yet?
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| 08:59 | <AndyGraybeal> tthorb_: :)
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| 09:00 | <JuanMarquez> i need build image ltsp client kernel 386 NOT generic, tell me more?
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| 09:02 | <AndyGraybeal> --arch i386 ... yes?
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| 09:02 | i'm new here.. so ignore me.
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| 09:03 | <ogra> -generic is x86
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| 09:03 | (in ubuntu at least)
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| 09:04 | <JuanMarquez> not
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| 09:04 | NOT kernel generic
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| 09:04 | kernel 386
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| 09:04 | linux-image-2.6.31-14-386
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| 09:05 | Not linux-image-2.6-31-14-generic
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| 09:06 | <ogra> right, build with --arch i386 (which will create an image with -generic kernel) then install the -i386 kernel inside the chroot and run ltsp-update-image, ltsp-update-kernels
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| 09:06 | <JuanMarquez> mmm ok
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| 09:06 | i other problem
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| 09:07 | <ogra> why do you explicitly need i386 ?
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| 09:07 | do you have actual i386 clients ?
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| 09:07 | (-generic supports everythying upwards from pentium 2)
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| 09:07 | <JuanMarquez> yes
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| 09:08 | <ogra> (-i386 is actuially 486)
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| 09:08 | <JuanMarquez> i pentium 2, and performance is very low
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| 09:09 | ltsp with ubuntu hardy is more speed
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| 09:09 | <ogra> how much ram ?
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| 09:09 | <JuanMarquez> 4Gb
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| 09:09 | <ogra> in the clients ?
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| 09:10 | <JuanMarquez> not the client onli 32Mb ram ist thing client hardware
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| 09:10 | 4GB in the Server
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| 09:10 | <ogra> 32MB isnt enough
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| 09:10 | <JuanMarquez> only 5 client for LTSP
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| 09:11 | mmmm back to the version Ubuntu jejje
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| 09:11 | in Hardy work perfect
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| 09:12 | 32Mb work in Ubuntu Jaunty LTPS?????
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| 09:12 | LTSP??
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| 09:13 | <ogra> minimum (even for hardy) was always 48MB (better 64) if your clients boot with 32 you are simply lucky
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| 09:14 | <JuanMarquez> minimum for jaunty and karmic????
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| 09:15 | <AndyGraybeal> ogra, so i should have done --arch generic ?
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| 09:15 | <ogra> AndyGraybeal, no
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| 09:15 | -generic is the default name of the i386 *and* amd64 kernel
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| 09:16 | the kernel works on both arches
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| 09:16 | --arch tells ltsp-build-client which userspace to use with it
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| 09:16 | <AndyGraybeal> ah okay
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| 09:16 | <JuanMarquez> generic = 386, AMD, AMD64, Pentium, celeron, Duron, Turion etc
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| 09:17 | <ogra> right
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| 09:17 | <JuanMarquez> and kernel-image-386 only pentium mmx, 2, 3 and AMD k5
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| 09:18 | <ogra> -generic is compiled with the 586 instruction set though ... so if you have older HW than pentium II it might have problems
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| 09:18 | <JuanMarquez> 386 != i386
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| 09:18 | <ogra> right
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| 09:18 | it uses the 486 instruction set
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| 09:19 | <AndyGraybeal> does anyone use wine and adobe acrobat with LTSP?
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| 09:19 | <ogra> i think some people do, but you need to be careful using wine
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| 09:19 | since you can easily break licensing
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| 09:19 | <AndyGraybeal> reader i mean
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| 09:19 | <ogra> ah, reader, that shouldnt have license issues
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| 09:20 | <AndyGraybeal> yea, bad habit
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| 09:20 | has anyone done the localapps with wine and acrobat reader?
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| 09:21 | <ogra> no idea, but there is certainly no reason it shouldnt work
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| 09:21 | <AndyGraybeal> k
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| 09:21 | <ogra> will just bloat your images :) wine pulls in a lot of dependencies
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| 09:22 | <AndyGraybeal> aah thank you for saying that.
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| 09:22 | i wonder how firefox integration and wine/acrobat reader work
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| 09:23 | maybe i'm confused.. *looks into acroread*
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| 09:25 | <johnny> you have to install it per user
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| 09:25 | each copy of acrobat
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| 09:25 | as in.. in each user's ~/.wine/drive_c directory
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| 09:29 | <AndyGraybeal> ok thank you
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| 09:29 | evilness :)
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| 09:35 | <JuanMarquez> man, minimal RAM for LTSP in Ubuntu Jaunty?
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| 09:45 | <Appiah> JuanMarquez: server? or client?
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| 09:52 | <Gadi> alkisg: ping
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> Hey Gadi
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> hey - I think I found a bug, but want to confirm with you
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| 09:53 | when you specify IPAPPEND 3, do you need to also specify the nbdroot?
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| 09:53 | because it drops me to an initramfs shell saying it cannot connect to the nbd server
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> IPAPPEND 3 uses the dhcp server as the nbd server
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| 09:54 | <Gadi> evidently not
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> ?
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| 09:54 | <Gadi> or not in my case
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> What do you get with cat /proc/cmdline ?
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| 09:55 | <Gadi> I get the correct ip info
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| 09:55 | but it dropped me to an initramfs shell
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| 09:55 | (this is in lucid, btw)
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> Weird
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| 09:56 | <Gadi> and with dhcp3-server not dnsmasq
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> So you have an ip=x:x:x:server: in /proc/cmdline with the correct server there, and it's using what, another server?
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| 09:57 | What do you have in /tmp/net-eth0.conf ?
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| 09:58 | And, is that message from nbd proxy or from nbd client? I.e. do you have any nbd-clients running when you are dropped to the initramfs prompt?
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| 09:58 | <Gadi> hmm.. ROOTSERVER is correct in the tmp file
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> And, if you specify nbdroot it works?!!
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> havent tried that yet
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| 09:59 | let me give a go again
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, that would be too weird
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> and see what happens
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> Now it sounds like an nbd proxy problem
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| 10:00 | <Gadi> hmm.. Error: Server closed connection
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| 10:00 | let me see whats up there...
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| 10:00 | <ogra> evil server
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| 10:02 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> hi ogra, sbalneav
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| 10:03 | <ogra> hey
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| 10:03 | <Gadi> hmm... certainly is an evil server
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| 10:05 | <alkisg> Gadi, check the usual stuff, if nbd server is running, if the port is correct, if the image file is actually there, and try nbd-client manually from the initramfs prompt.
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| 10:06 | <Gadi> well, if I run nbd-proxy and nbd-client manually from the initramfs prompt it works - perhaps we need to explicitly modprobe nbd to make sure the module is present
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| 10:06 | might be a race condition
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| 10:06 | <alkisg> I think we already do that
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| 10:07 | <Gadi> where?
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| 10:07 | in ltsp_nbd?
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| 10:07 | <alkisg> Maybe, let me look...
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| 10:07 | <Gadi> not in mine
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| 10:08 | * Gadi tries to add it | |
| 10:08 | <alkisg> ltsp-init-common?
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| 10:08 | Hmm that's too late
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| 10:08 | There's another one somewhere...
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| 10:10 | <alkisg> Where was that initramfs module conf file... where we called a function to load the modules...
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| 10:11 | <Gadi> in hooks?
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> Yeah, ltsp_nbd in hooks
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| 10:11 | force_load nbd
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| 10:11 | <Gadi> I think that modprobe may happen too late (not sure)
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| 10:11 | we'll see...
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| 10:14 | <AndyGraybeal> if i run firefox with localapps, and then at sometime in the future update the image, will i lose all the info in firefox?
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| 10:15 | like, bookmarks and other settings?
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| 10:15 | like the 'privacy' stuff?
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| 10:16 | <alkisg> No, your firefox settings are in /home/username/.mozilla
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| 10:16 | <AndyGraybeal> thank you
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| 10:21 | <Gadi> alkisg: ok, im pretty sure it is an nbd-proxy thing
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| 10:21 | seems nbd-proxy is dying
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| 10:21 | <alkisg> Gadi: so if you remove it, it boots OK?
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| 10:21 | (modify 2 lines in ltsp_nbd)
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| 10:22 | <Gadi> I will to be sure
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| 10:23 | <johnny> all of the sudden yesterday my machines started getting the lts.conf from the /var/lib/tftpboot dir .. causing difficulty for all :(
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| 10:23 | for 2 years i've had the lts.conf in the chroot /etc/lts.conf
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| 10:23 | yesterday it started magically working and my old outdated file was used..
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| 10:24 | well.. at least it finally works
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| 10:24 | <ogra> you broke the breakage !
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> Gadi, btw, when you use ipappend 3 you miss any dhcp info (like dns server etc) - to get it you'd also need autoconf=dhcp
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| 10:26 | <Gadi> weird
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| 10:26 | I take that back
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| 10:26 | if I just use nbd-client I get an error: no route to host
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> Woah
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| 10:26 | But it works if you do it from the initramfs prompt?
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| 10:27 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 10:27 | so something's not coming up in time or something
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| 10:27 | <alkisg> Try a big sleep there
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| 10:45 | <alkisg> johnny: was that your problem? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/238010 - I committed a fix for that 2 weeks ago
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| 10:53 | <johnny> yep
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| 10:57 | <shogunx> hi all. is anyone aware of a netcafe prepaid timer style billing system that works with ltsp?
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| 11:00 | <tthorb_> \q
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| 11:01 | <CAN-o-SPAM> shogunx: i know theres plenty of packages out there, not sure of their ability to be successful in an ltsp environment
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| 11:02 | <shogunx> most rely on an independent host trying to connect through a router running a captive portal, but that is obviously not the case with ltsp
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| 11:04 | <AndyGraybeal> when i run ltsp-localapps firefox, it doesn't see my bookmarks in /home/mariposa/.mozilla/firefox/.... but when i open up firefox over the network it sees the bookmarks just fine -- is there something i'm missing?
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| 11:04 | <JuanMarquez> Appiah, in client
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| 11:04 | <Gadi> alkisg: so, I put a while loop in there to try nbd-client 10 times before giving up. First try it errors, second try it works and goes through
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| 11:04 | alkisg: so, must be some kind of timing thing
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| 11:04 | <alkisg> Gadi: did it work with sleep?
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| 11:04 | <Gadi> this was better than sleep
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| 11:05 | because sleep is a guess
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| 11:05 | <alkisg> I think calling nbd-client multiple times can cause problems
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| 11:05 | <Gadi> only if it fails
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| 11:05 | once it connects, it goes through
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| 11:05 | <alkisg> I tried to do that when I had problems with nbd-proxy, but stgraber's programmers told me not to do that
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| 11:06 | <Gadi> not to call nbd-proxy more than once or not to call nbd-client more than once?
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| 11:06 | <alkisg> Not sure, it's been a long time :) Let me look at the logs...
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| 11:07 | <Gadi> well, I started down this road to see if I could eliminate the udhcpc call to shave time off the boot
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| 11:07 | adding a sleep is counterproductive
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| 11:07 | :)
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| 11:08 | <alkisg> Yeah it was the proxy
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| 11:09 | No the sleep would be just to verify that it's a race condition, and then we could focus on why nbd isn't loaded at this point.
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| 11:09 | It wouldn't be a solution, just a means for debugging...
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| 11:09 | <Gadi> I think nbd is loaded
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| 11:09 | I dont think thats the problem
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| 11:09 | but, let me verify
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| 11:10 | (because when I added a modprobe nbd it had no effect)
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| 11:10 | <alkisg> Then what? Network not ready yet?
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| 11:11 | <Gadi> network is ready
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| 11:11 | I dump ifconfig and ip route before the call
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| 11:11 | and it is definitely sourcing /tmp/net-eth0
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| 11:12 | <alkisg> Did you completely remove the nbd-proxy call? Or are you trying the nbd-client localhost many times?
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| 11:14 | Gadi, if you still have nbd-proxy there, do ping stgraber about it. I had a similar problem in vbox where calling it two times worked around it, and his developers fixed nbd-proxy and now it works OK for me - but I think another, more proper fix was expected - maybe you're affected by that one
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| 11:19 | <Gadi> this is just nbd-client
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| 11:20 | without nbd-proxy
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> Mhm...
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| 11:20 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:21 | <Gadi> but maybe the bug they tried to squash in nbd-proxy was not an nbd-proxy bug but a timing thing
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| 11:21 | let me try an nc call
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| 11:23 | hmm... no nc
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| 11:23 | okey dokey
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| 11:26 | <AndyGraybeal> i said something wrong : when i run ltsp-localapps firefox; my bookmarks don't work, when i run regular firefox my bookmarks are fine, am i doing someting wrong?
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| 11:29 | <Gadi> alkisg: so, this patch works for me - I don't see the harm of trying a second time if it fails the first time - especially if it makes it work
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| 11:30 | <alkisg> Gadi, but how are you going to push it upstream without removing nbd-proxy? Or are you going to try nbd-proxy multiple times?
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| 11:30 | <Gadi> I just did it with nbd-proxy
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| 11:30 | basically, nbd-proxy exits when bd-client fails
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| 11:30 | so I run nbd-proxy a second time and nbd-client a second time
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| 11:31 | and it all works great
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| 11:31 | <alkisg> OK. No problem from me - but I'd leave a "#TODO: find out why it isn't working on the first try" there ;)
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| 11:32 | <Gadi> yeah - btw just tested without the IPAPPEND and it only does it once as is the current behavior
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| 11:33 | it must be some networking module that is not up yet
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| 11:33 | maybe af_packet?
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| 11:34 | * alkisg has no clues about modules - the last remotely related thing I did was a mouse driver in assembly in the dos days :D | |
| 11:35 | <AndyGraybeal> okay, so now it is working -- i have no idea.
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| 11:35 | i dont' think i did anything,.
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| 11:37 | so i need to rebuild my image everytime i change my lts.conf ?
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| 11:38 | <alkisg> Gadi: so, without IPAPPEND it works for you, and with IPAPPEND you need that hack?
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| 11:38 | <Gadi> alkisg: yup
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> Gadi: does it work if you purge udhcp from the chroot, but leave IPAPPEND 3, so that ipconfig handles it (and not premount)?
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| 11:40 | <Gadi> one sec
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| 11:40 | trying something
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| 11:40 | * alkisg thinks init-premount is too early, we need to move the udhcp hook to configure_networking... | |
| 11:41 | <Gadi> alkisg: this problem occurs when udhcpc does NOT run
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| 11:41 | :)
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> Gadi, yes, but the static ip address is handled from the udhcp script, and not from configure_networking, like it used to do
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| 11:43 | Gadi, all the sleeps in the udhcp script are there because it's in the wrong place - it runs too early...
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| 11:43 | <Gadi> ah, I see
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| 11:43 | well, it wasnt af_packet
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| 11:43 | :)
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| 11:44 | <alkisg> It was put there as a "test drive" in karmic, but now that we verified that it mostly works, we should move it to configure_networking
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| 11:44 | <Gadi> isnt configure_networking in functions?
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| 11:44 | <alkisg> Yup, that was the problem, no hooks there
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| 11:44 | <Gadi> (or do you mean call it as a script instead of configure_networking)
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| 11:45 | * Gadi is not sure we can mess with functions | |
| 11:45 | <alkisg> configure_networking() { if udhcp is installed; then run the script; else continue with the existing ipconfig-based code }
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| 11:46 | That would also save us from all the sleeps and race problems
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| 11:46 | <Gadi> I think we need: if udhcp installed { run it} else {configure_networking }
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| 11:46 | bec I think functions is part of initramfs-tools
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| 11:46 | <alkisg> OK - I haven't looked at that part of the code recently...
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| 11:47 | <Gadi> also, it would be nice if we didnt do sleeps but if we did retries
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> If it was moved in the proper place, I don't think even retries would be needed
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| 11:47 | The networking components would be up, so we'd be free to use them without checking
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| 12:41 | <nubae> wow, I was sure ltsplogbot would have died by now...
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| 12:43 | <AndyGraybeal> is it best to run rdp client as a localapp or doesn't matter?
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| 12:45 | <JuanMarquez> i need in mi client LTSP Karmic linux-image-2.6.31-14-386 (not linux.image-2.6.31-14-generic), how to????
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| 12:45 | <nubae> !doc
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| 12:45 | <ltspbot`> nubae: Error: "doc" is not a valid command.
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| 12:45 | <nubae> !docs
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| 12:45 | <ltspbot`> nubae: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 12:50 | <JuanMarquez> i know
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| 12:51 | vale me voy un xubuntu dapper a ver jejeje
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| 12:51 | supongo que con xubuntu puedo instalar la suit edubuntu igual
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| 12:52 | es una prueba que jamas he realizado
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| 12:56 | <nubae> creo que no... edubuntu es Gnome solo
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| 12:56 | puede ser que tambien han hecho algo ya para kde
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| 12:56 | pero xubuntu lo dudo mucho
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| 12:59 | <JuanMarquez> ok
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| 13:00 | nubae, en pocas palabras hay tecnicas? para usar un kernel 386 (no generic) en clientes LTSP?
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| 13:00 | nubae, tengo entendido que linux-image-386 tiene mejor performance para maquinas P2
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| 13:00 | Pentium 2
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| 13:01 | <nubae> si, se puede
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| 13:01 | yo usaria xubuntu ltsp aunque no sea edubuntu
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| 13:02 | siempre puedes instalar los paquetes educativos despues
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| 13:02 | <JuanMarquez> eso
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| 13:05 | nubae tengo una red 1 server + 5 clientes todo con LTSP, pero en momentos los equipos se ponian lentos, el server es Hardy 2GB RAM P dual 3Ghz HDD SATA, los clientes P2 450Mhz y 32MB Ram
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| 13:06 | no puedo hacer mas cambios al Hardware, que me Recomiendas para el Server?
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| 13:06 | <nubae> es muy poca ram, si puedes, pon le algo mas, aunque sea solo 32 m
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| 13:06 | <JuanMarquez> Xubuntu 6 o 7 o 8 o 9?
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| 13:07 | o Ubuntu?
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| 13:07 | <nubae> con clientes asi, el server puede ser bastante normalito, es decir no tiene que ser nada grande
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| 13:08 | intenta con una version nueva, han hecho muchos cambios para que vaya bien en equipos antiguos
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| 13:14 | <JuanMarquez> nubae, es que ese es mi problema actual
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| 13:15 | instale Karmic 64bit y tambien 32Bit, las maquinas clientes ninguna arranco solo 1 que tiene 128 de RAM, alli pense que las maquinas con 32Mb de ram no eran suficientes
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| 13:16 | <nubae> creo que tienes razon, ltsp necesitara 64m
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| 13:16 | <JuanMarquez> ahora quiero esperimentar si puedo cambiar el kernel para las clientes colocando uno para maquinas antiguas
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| 13:17 | <nubae> es bueno camino, intenta lo
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| 13:17 | <JuanMarquez> ya que con Hardy todo funciona perfecto asi con los 32Bm
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| 13:17 | pero no lo logro
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| 13:18 | cambio mi chroot a /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update y bajo linux-image-386 pero no se como dejar ese kernel por default
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| 13:21 | <nubae> mira en /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
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| 13:22 | las imagenes estan alli bajo images creo
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| 13:22 | y el fichero de arranque tambien esta en una de esas carpetas... lo puedes editar para reflejar el nuevo kernel
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| 13:25 | <JuanMarquez> ok
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| 13:25 | lo intente pero voy a mirar nuevamente ya que tengo cabeza mas relajada
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| 13:26 | nubae, porque no tenemos #ltsp-es ?
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| 13:26 | yo tambien podria dar algo de soporte
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| 13:28 | nubae, de tftp cual es el achivo a modificar?
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| 13:51 | <JuanMarquez> i can generate Ubuntu Hardy image in Ubuntu LTSP Karmic server?????????
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> JuanMarquez: did your 32 MB clients really boot with hardy? I think I've tried with 48 ram and it took 15 minutes to boot...
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| 13:53 | <JuanMarquez> in hardy my clients 32Mb RAM, boot in 20 Sec
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| 13:53 | <alkisg> With LTSP?
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| 13:54 | <JuanMarquez> in Karmic not boot, only one client 64MB
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| 13:54 | yes clients LTSP
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| 13:54 | * alkisg finds it hard to believe that... :-/ | |
| 13:55 | <JuanMarquez> | |
| 13:55 | and work perfect
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| 13:56 | 32Mb, 450Mhz P2, Board Intel
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> I think that was left there from the LTSP 4.2 days... and also it never worked for me with 32 MB RAM... but ok, if you say so, it is so.
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| 13:57 | <JuanMarquez> not 5.0.x in Ubuntu hardy and intrepid WORK
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| 13:57 | sorry "not"!! jeje,, in hardy and intrepid work (ltsp 5.0xx)
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| 14:20 | <JuanMarquez> alkisg, can generate image hardy client, in karmic server ltsp?
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| 14:23 | <johnny> why would you want to do that?
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| 14:23 | it seems unlikely that it would work
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| 14:23 | and lots of important fixes have gone in since hardy
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> JuanMarquez: do you still have that magic hardy installation that works with only 32mb ram? If so, you could just copy the image from there.
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| 14:29 | I.e. /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 14:32 | JuanMarquez: you *might* be able to use ltsp-build-client --dist hardy, but I've never done that.
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| 14:32 | <JuanMarquez> only copy image? and other images can be? xubuntu etc?
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> xubuntu is on the server, not on the iamge
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| 14:32 | image
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| 14:35 | <JuanMarquez> alkisg, ltsp-build-client --dist hardy is run, i wait, jejejej thsk
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| 14:35 | thks
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| 14:39 | <Gadi> alkisg: Im getting to be one of those old dogs that cant learn new tricks
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> Gadi: hmm?
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> so, if my lucid VM was shutdown abruptly, and now it comes up with a cryptic message from mountall
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| 14:40 | and the / fs is mounted read only
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| 14:40 | once upon a time I knew how to fix such things
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| 14:40 | :)
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> Ah :)
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| 14:40 | Try the recovery option from grub first, to fsck /
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| 14:40 | If that doesn't work, boot from a live cd and fsck /
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| 14:41 | *fsck /dev/sdaX
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| 14:41 | <Gadi> yup yup
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| 14:41 | tried that
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| 14:41 | says its clean
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> Oooh
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| 14:41 | <Gadi> of course, this is my first time with ext4
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> I guess it's #ubuntu+1 time for you :)
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| 14:41 | <Gadi> *sigh*
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| 14:42 | ah, to be *that guy*
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> C'mon now don't by shy :)
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> Gadi, what's the exact message from mountall?
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| 14:47 | <markit> hi, I've kubuntu 9.10 and ltsp 5.2. I'm a bit perplexed because pc that boot fine with k/ubuntu 9.1, don't work well if booted with ltsp as clients
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| 14:48 | I'm trying to boot an acer netbook, but hangs at the screen with the ubuntu symbol
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| 14:48 | (after kernel load, before login screen)
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> Try to remove "quiet splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default to see any error messages
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| 14:48 | <markit> any clue about how troubleshooting? a different client boots fine (so server should be ok)
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| 14:48 | alkisg: thanks, let's try
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| 14:49 | alkisg: btw, I had problems with yashi atom thin client with 5.2 from debian sid, now is ok with 5.2 from ubuntu
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| 14:50 | <Gadi> alkisg: just a general error mounting filesystems
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> Ugh. OK, no clue on that.
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| 14:52 | <markit> alkisg: do I have to rebuild something after the change? do you know if "#" is for comments in that file?
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> You don't need to rebuild anything.
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| 14:53 | Yes, # stand for comments
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| 14:54 | <markit> mm complex output, I can read the last lines, a call trace with panic
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> Maybe network module related?
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| 14:55 | <markit> how can I tell? it has dowloaded the kernel fine and was during a lot of initialization
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| 14:55 | seems video related, but maybe is something that is a consequence of previous panic
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| 14:56 | if I boot from hd, I have the same kernel AFAIR, that works fine (2.6.31-19-generic)
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| 14:57 | also, I've tried a eeebook, that works fine with KDE4 if boot from hd, but "returns to login screen after spash screen" if boots from ltsp
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| 14:57 | I'm really puzzled before of this.. I mean, I can't tell if a thin client will work with ltsp
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| 14:58 | even if is working with the "same" os and desktop manager
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> What does "returns to login screen after spash screen" mean exactly? Do you get to enter a username/password?
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| 14:59 | <markit> yes, I enter username/password, then as far as I remember screen becomes black, then the regular kde4 blue background with bubbles
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| 14:59 | the splash screen with the animation
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| 14:59 | and when I should see the desktop, I return to ltsp login screen
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| 14:59 | (the orange one)
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| 15:00 | I've not composite enabled
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> .xsession-errors would help you there
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| 15:00 | <markit> alkisg: I've not that client here, I've at work, will try tomorrow, thanks for the tip
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> markit: also, generally, gnome is more tested for ltsp
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| 15:01 | <markit> this is unfortunate :(
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| 15:02 | alkisg: but isn't ltsp providing the same kernel and xorg as regular kubuntu?
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> I don't mean that kde doesn't work with ltsp - it's just that gnome is more tested
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| 15:02 | <markit> alkisg: yes, I understand :)
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| 15:02 | but since I'm not a guru, troubleshooting specific kde problems would be a nightmare for me
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> markit: it might e.g. be missing some firmware package for your network card, I don't know, I'm not good with modules...
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| 15:03 | <markit> afair, there is a way to log on the server
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| 15:03 | will it work even if crashes after 5 seconds?
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| 15:04 | alkisg: mmm but there are only two packages, the kernel and the new free-firmware or something like that
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| 15:04 | so don't understand how should it miss anything
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> Uploading a photo of the kernel crash might help people give you answers on that.
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| 15:05 | Also, lspci/lsmod etc would help, when ran from the working system
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| 15:07 | <markit> # Mobile Intel 945GSE Express
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> And network?
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| 15:07 | <markit> alkisg: I should take a video, not only a photo, some messages are lost scrolling
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| 15:08 | ok, let me boot regulary and see
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| 15:09 | Ethernet controller: Attansic Technology Corp. Atheros AR8132 / L1c Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (rev c0)
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| 15:09 | (but works only at 100Mbps)
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| 15:10 | http://www.pastebin.ca/1819920
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| 15:15 | <markit> alkisg: do I have to try to produce a photo, or is not something you can manage?
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| 15:16 | I mean, are you waiting my photo or is a situation you give up?
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> markit: no, as I said I'm not good with modules, so I don't think I can help you with that...
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| 15:17 | <markit> alkisg: ok, thanks a lot anyway :))
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| 15:17 | alkisg: but how is that that ltsp client behaves different than "regular" disto in many aspects?
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| 15:17 | i.e. render kde4 for some video board, or manage lan nic, or these kernel panics
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| 15:37 | <highvoltage> I vaguely remember seeing some references to discussions on ltsp-light a while back
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| 15:37 | anyone know something about it?
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> Someone asking about a lighter version of ltsp, and the devs replying that they don't want to go back to the ltsp 4.2 days? :)
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| 15:43 | I don't think that anything came out of that thread...
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| 15:43 | <highvoltage> ok thanks alkisg
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| 15:56 | <markit> alkisg: "small" additional problem :) I've read in 5.2 blog about blazing fast boot for Lucid
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| 15:57 | I've tried to build a client for lucid, but was the same speed as for karmic
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| 15:57 | the client spends some time with dhcp
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| 15:57 | and also wastes after entering username and password (password verification phase)
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| 15:57 | is there something wrong in my setup?
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| 16:13 | <markit> mmm booting with your gpxe 1.0 instead of pxe rom of the nic, is almost immediate in getting ip and loading kernel
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| 21:47 | <JeffATL> I've gotten the ltsp overlay installed on gentoo but i'm a loss as to where to go next for docs
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| 22:08 | <johnny> JeffATL, it's on the gentoo-wiki site i think..
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| 22:23 | <JeffATL> johnny: looks like it, thanks
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| 23:08 | <pyite> hello
| |
| 23:09 | We are a new startup company and we are looking to find some cheap desktops to deploy. We've been looking at this project for a while and I think we're ready to take the plunge. However, I am a bit concerned that our software won't work properly on LTSP... Maybe someone can help me analyze our requirements better. I googled for a while but am not quite sure I "get it"
| |
| 23:10 | I am of the belief that LTSP, aside from providing virtual terminals, can provide virtualized desktop environments, too? Is that correct? We're looking to let each of our engineers install their own IDE environment (NetBeans) and their own copies of Apache, MySQL, etc... Will this work with LTSP or am I misunderstanding it's purpose?
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| 23:31 | <pyite> i guess all are sleeping
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| 23:33 | <johnny> hmm?
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| 23:33 | yeah.. most are
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| 23:34 | <pyite> :)
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| 23:34 | <johnny> well.. i don't see why they would install their own copies of netbeans?
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| 23:34 | wouldn't one copy work?
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| 23:34 | with each having a user account?
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| 23:34 | <pyite> I guess, I'm lacking an understanding of how this operates
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| 23:34 | one copy would be fine for NetBeans
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| 23:34 | not so fine for Apache / MySQL
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| 23:34 | they need their own of that
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| 23:34 | <johnny> you all log into one machine
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| 23:34 | by default anyways..
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| 23:34 | <pyite> I mean I guess I could make virtualhosts and what not
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| 23:34 | <johnny> would they really need their own copy of mysql/apache?
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| 23:35 | <pyite> sorta
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| 23:35 | because they will need xdebug
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| 23:35 | i don't know that xdebug will play so nicely with multiple people using it at the same time
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| 23:35 | <johnny> i think that would still work ok
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| 23:35 | <pyite> really?
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| 23:35 | ok...
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| 23:35 | <johnny> i think it does..
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| 23:35 | <pyite> interesting
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| 23:35 | <johnny> but i'm not 100% sure
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| 23:35 | <pyite> :)
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| 23:35 | <johnny> you can try it with a standard desktop
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| 23:35 | <pyite> well i think I will just test this out, if these trial evals are really free
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| 23:35 | <johnny> well xdebug is free anyways..
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| 23:35 | <pyite> can I trial it somehow on my desktop? without wiping my current OS ?
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| 23:35 | <johnny> why netbeans?
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| 23:36 | why not pdt?
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| 23:36 | <pyite> cause we like NetBeans :)
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| 23:36 | <johnny> or zend editor
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| 23:36 | pdt is completely free
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| 23:36 | no trial
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| 23:36 | <pyite> zend has been slowwww and actually NetBeans xdebug integration is better imho
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| 23:36 | <johnny> needed
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| 23:36 | <pyite> re: trial i was referring to LTSP disklessworkstations (the hardware)
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| 23:36 | <johnny> ah.. i don't know much about their hardware
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| 23:36 | <pyite> the other thing will be that each person needs a copy of FreeSWITCH
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| 23:36 | <johnny> never used it
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| 23:36 | <pyite> so again, all these issues ;)
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| 23:36 | <johnny> why?
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| 23:37 | <pyite> cause they will be coding software for it, and you shouldn't disrupt someone else's work from a reboot or a reconfigure
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| 23:37 | <johnny> ah yes
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| 23:37 | <pyite> plus they will end up on different versions
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| 23:37 | one on the stable
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| 23:37 | one on SVN trunk
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| 23:37 | etc etc
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| 23:37 | <johnny> well.. you'd have to make it use different ports or whatever as necessary
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| 23:37 | you could install virtual box or whatever
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| 23:37 | <pyite> well that's what i'm trying to understand though
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| 23:37 | <johnny> and have each user log into their own vbox instance
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| 23:37 | <pyite> is LTSP more like virtualization?
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| 23:37 | <johnny> no
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| 23:38 | it's not virtualization at all
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| 23:38 | <pyite> is it just like having extra TTY terminals?
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| 23:38 | on a hardware box?
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| 23:38 | <johnny> extra X terminals
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| 23:38 | <pyite> i'm just confused on what it's really doing "under the hood"
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| 23:38 | ahh yes X terminals ;) thank you for correcting
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| 23:38 | <johnny> ltsp is just glue on top of standard unix tools
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| 23:38 | <pyite> but I think you know where my clarification is needed from my questions :)
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| 23:38 | <johnny> each machine netboots
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| 23:38 | from that central server
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| 23:39 | and logs in via ssh
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| 23:39 | and gets a graphical terminal
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| 23:39 | or even just boot machines that run rdesktop
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| 23:39 | <pyite> so if that's the case
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| 23:39 | <johnny> for rdp on windows termianl servers
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| 23:39 | <pyite> why do some of the diskless workstation hardware devices have PCI slots?
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| 23:39 | just for video cards?
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| 23:39 | <johnny> i guess.. i have no idea
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| 23:40 | <pyite> ok...
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| 23:40 | <johnny> this isn't a diskless workstations support forum or anything
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| 23:40 | <pyite> this is helpful, thanks :)
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| 23:40 | <johnny> i just use regular old desktops
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| 23:40 | that have no harddrives
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| 23:40 | <pyite> hmmm... you think I can combine VirtualBox w/ LTSP somewhat transparently? so the users login to their "own" machine? I have a pretty beefy server...
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| 23:40 | <johnny> most people do
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| 23:40 | well sure..
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| 23:40 | <pyite> really?
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| 23:40 | cause that seems pretty interesting...
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| 23:40 | <johnny> almost anything that works for a user logging into their linux distro.. works on ltsp
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| 23:41 | so.. if you had an ubuntu/debian/fedora machine and set it up so it would start a virtual machine on login
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| 23:41 | then it would work on ltsp
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| 23:41 | <pyite> hmmm
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| 23:42 | sorry if this is a dumb question
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| 23:42 | would ltsp run inside the VM then?
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| 23:42 | and that user would connect to it?
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| 23:42 | <johnny> no
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| 23:42 | <pyite> or does LTSP run on the host
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| 23:42 | <johnny> mostly on the host
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| 23:42 | <pyite> and then the user logs into "their" VM from "their" X window
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| 23:42 | or X term
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| 23:42 | <johnny> sure
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| 23:42 | you can run ltsp in a vm..
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| 23:42 | but i don't see why you would.. unless you have some huge rack of blades or somethin
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| 23:43 | <pyite> ok
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| 23:43 | interesting
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| 23:43 | can I ask, what type of "old" computers do you use?
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| 23:43 | <johnny> cuz then you'd be running vms for your users inside of a vm
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| 23:43 | <pyite> I have a few I am about to toss that I'm assuming are too old to use..
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| 23:43 | <johnny> whatever we could get donated :)
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| 23:43 | how old?
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| 23:43 | <pyite> how old are we talking?
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| 23:43 | yeah
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| 23:43 | <johnny> you tell me
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| 23:43 | <pyite> like 256MB 1ghz? :)
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| 23:43 | Apple IIgs?
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| 23:43 | <johnny> sure
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| 23:43 | <pyite> ;)
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| 23:43 | <johnny> the first is reasonable
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| 23:43 | pretty good really
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| 23:44 | <pyite> lol oh come on, ProDOS is pretty flexible ;)
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| 23:44 | so seriously though, you've had reasonable success w/ 256MB 1ghz CPUs? people don't complain about speed/etc?
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| 23:44 | <johnny> altho people who run flash stuff all the time tend to want machines with 512mb ram.. so they can run firefox + flash localy to the machine
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| 23:44 | <pyite> I wonder what your applications are...
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| 23:44 | got it
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| 23:44 | <johnny> the speed of the client machine is not very relevant unless you're running some apps locally
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| 23:45 | the minimum of ram is something like 96mb..
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| 23:45 | mostly that affects boot speed more than anything
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| 23:45 | as the server does everything else
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| 23:45 | !docs
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| 23:45 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 23:45 | <johnny> that talks about minimum specs
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| 23:45 | flash is actually a serious killer of machines..
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| 23:46 | i just bumped my machines so i could run a fat client setup
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| 23:46 | gave them 512mb ram so ican run firefox + flash locally and not worry about speed
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| 23:46 | or rather.. them running out of ram
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| 23:46 | perhaps some day.. adobe will fix flash..
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| 23:47 | <pyite> I'm still a bit confused
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| 23:47 | earlier you said it's just an extension of an X window
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| 23:48 | <johnny> it is
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| 23:48 | <pyite> wouldn't flash be running on the server?
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| 23:48 | <johnny> local apps..
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| 23:48 | <pyite> so you can run apps locally...
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| 23:48 | <johnny> you can choose to run some apps local to the machiene
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| 23:48 | <pyite> does the disk/storage still stay on the wire/network ?
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| 23:48 | <johnny> some or all
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| 23:48 | yes
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| 23:48 | <pyite> via an nfs mount ?
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| 23:48 | <johnny> altho it can use local hard drives..
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| 23:48 | nfs or nbd
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| 23:48 | <pyite> hmmm
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| 23:48 | <johnny> ubuntu uses nbd
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| 23:48 | and for local apps mounts /home nfs
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| 23:48 | the rootfs is nbd
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| 23:48 | <pyite> all your answers are "it can" or "either or" it seems... i am getting the feeling this is pretty flexible
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| 23:48 | <johnny> well yes.. unix is flexible isn't it? :)
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| 23:48 | <pyite> sometimes :)
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| 23:49 | if you know which config file to edit lol
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| 23:49 | <johnny> ltsp is just glue to faciliate some stuff that X forwarding can't do natively
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| 23:49 | <pyite> got it
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| 23:49 | <johnny> like forwarding sound and access to local devices like usb sticks
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| 23:49 | <pyite> i admit i consider myself pretty comfortable in linux land as a sysadmin (10+ years experience), but this is my first run-in with actually using X Forwarding
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| 23:49 | I usually work in command line
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| 23:49 | so that's probably going to be the big mystery for me for a while
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| 23:49 | <johnny> well.. you mostly don't notice it
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| 23:49 | i just use it at an internet cafe
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| 23:49 | <pyite> interesting
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| 23:50 | <johnny> well.. cafe.. with internet terminals really
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| 23:50 | bookstore cafe even..
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| 23:50 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 23:50 | <johnny> we only have 3 terms
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| 23:50 | ah.. alkisg :)
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| 23:50 | <pyite> i wonder if the cost savings will really be there in our environment
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| 23:50 | <alkisg> Good morning all
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| 23:50 | <pyite> due to memory & disk requirements on the server
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| 23:50 | i will have to play around i gues
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| 23:50 | guess
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| 23:50 | <johnny> pyite, sure.. it's free to try :)
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| 23:50 | if you already use a supported distro.. installing ltsp is mostly easy
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| 23:51 | <pyite> $2000 server + 4 x $300 workstations = 3200 for full setups... $800 a station isn't bad actually
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| 23:51 | <johnny> apt-get install ltsp-server
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| 23:51 | and if you already have a dhcp server.. there are instructions to modify it to point to your ltsp server for tftp
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| 23:51 | <pyite> option 66 stuff ?
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| 23:51 | <johnny> so.. yeah.. easy
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| 23:51 | next-server option
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| 23:51 | most of the time
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| 23:51 | <pyite> ok, got it. interesting
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| 23:52 | if I really got my way
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| 23:52 | <johnny> when i was developing ltsp for gentoo distro.. i ran my clients in a vbox for testing
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| 23:52 | that was fun
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| 23:52 | <pyite> I'd be able to setup VirtualBox with each guest OS on it's own subnet
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| 23:52 | then each developer gets their own fake network to play with
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| 23:52 | but it's all actually centralized
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| 23:52 | that would be pretty darn slick
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| 23:52 | it should be possible
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| 23:52 | <johnny> of course there are more options if you start using kvm and other native virt
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| 23:52 | but i'm not qualified to speak on them
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| 23:52 | <pyite> feel free, i won't know the difference ;)
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| 23:52 | heh
| |
| 23:53 | <johnny> i have only messed with virtualbox and vmware.. because they were easy to setup at the time
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| 23:53 | <pyite> well this is at least interesting
| |
| 23:53 | imagine 10 users on a single server
| |
| 23:53 | <johnny> 10?
| |
| 23:53 | <pyite> you think ?
| |
| 23:53 | too optimistic?
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| 23:53 | <johnny> well.. for you and those intensive apps..
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| 23:53 | people definitely have waaay more users on some
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| 23:53 | <pyite> some people just use Word :)
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| 23:53 | oh really?
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| 23:53 | <johnny> read the
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| 23:53 | !docs
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| 23:53 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 23:54 | <pyite> ok ok
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| 23:54 | ;)
| |
| 23:54 | * pyite takes the hint | |
| 23:54 | <johnny> it has specs for common usage
| |
| 23:54 | of course.. if you just want to more easily manage desktops.. you can do a full fat client setup
| |
| 23:54 | <pyite> eh, it's only avail as a pdf or manpages?
| |
| 23:54 | :(
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| 23:54 | <johnny> no.. you have to browse on the right or something
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| 23:54 | the pdf link is just a bit too prominent imo..
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| 23:54 | try2free has joined #ltsp | |
| 23:54 | <pyite> oh got it
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| 23:54 | main page
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| 23:54 | :)
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| 23:55 | try2free has quit IRC | |
| 23:55 | <johnny> pyite, alkisg serves up 10GB images to his semi powerful clients
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| 23:55 | browsers, edu apps, word processing, and whatnot
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| 23:56 | in that case.. you wouldn't run into any port conflicts..
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| 23:56 | and you'd just be using ltsp to centralize management and have a bunch of machines with no disks
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| 23:57 | <pyite> 2200 thin clients on 31 servers !
| |
| 23:57 | holy ****
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| 23:57 | lol
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| 23:57 | i love the challenges listed
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| 23:58 | The need to know the physical location of each thin client as well as the network location, the sheer number of cardboard boxes to be broken down and discarded, all networking was required to be Cat5e or better, fan noise for classroom switches, physical table space to place 6 to 12 client stations in each classroom.
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| 23:58 | not "LTSP was hard to use"
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| 23:58 | this is really interesting
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| 23:58 | looks like 40 users on a not-very-beefy server runs just fine
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| 23:58 | ok i'm definitely in
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| 23:58 | johnny: thanks, this is fantastic
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| 23:59 | <johnny> ltsp has been around for over 10 years now
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| 23:59 | in some form or another.. definitely alot of case studies
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| 23:59 | <pyite> although i am now looking at the docs :)
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| 23:59 | i don't see much on Server Sizing
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| 23:59 | "There is currently no text in this page."
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