IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 December 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:39 | <huafu_> ~morning!
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| 03:39 | huafu_ is now known as huafu | |
| 03:40 | xdrazen has joined IRC (xdrazen!~xdrazen@181.188.174.232) | |
| 03:41 | <xdrazen> good night
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| 03:42 | kinda, anybody is on right now?
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| 03:44 | <vagrantc> !ask | echo xdrazen
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| 03:44 | <ltsp`> xdrazen ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 03:46 | <xdrazen> good nigh vagrantc
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| 03:46 | <huafu> xdrazen, good night!
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| 03:46 | <xdrazen> well, i was talking with alskig
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| 03:47 | good night huafu
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| 03:47 | <huafu> xdrazen, hahaha I did not see.... oh I got disconnected
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| 03:47 | it's my morning so I just arrived ;-)
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| 03:47 | <xdrazen> sorry, in the nigth i was very upset, anyways i could not help you out with the issue that you have in the VM, i am getting issues even in a "e1 laptop serving pentium pro pcs"
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| 03:48 | btw, what is "better" the chroot or the pnp ltsp?
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| 03:48 | right now, i am downloading the ubuntu 12.04.1 iso. When done (1houror more=
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| 03:49 | i will try the pnp. But anyways i am not sure how so far i could extend this
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| 03:49 | kinda, that not all the clients has the same graphic card (in the mobo)
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| 03:49 | <huafu> xdrazen, still talking to alkisg I suppose? (sorry, worrying of not answering if that was for me)
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| 03:50 | <vagrantc> ltsp-pnp is very simple to manage- you install what you want on the server and then build the LTSP image out of the server's files.
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| 03:50 | <huafu> (ok forget me :p I guess I am not fully awake yet)
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| 03:51 | <xdrazen> ^^ nvm, i try to be kind and try to speak with all
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| 03:51 | ^^
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| 03:51 | i will sleep until the iso download, it is 23:51 here
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| 03:52 | vagrantc, then, the pnp is easier than the "chroot"? right.
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| 03:52 | <vagrantc> in most cases, sure
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| 03:52 | if you need things like raspberry pi clients, then ltsp-pnp isn't so good
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| 03:52 | <xdrazen> i have my doubts... From me, the clients are 8 pentium pro and 1 pentium 2
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| 03:53 | <vagrantc> but for most cases, x86 server and x86 clients, ltsp-pnp is the easiest.
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| 03:53 | if you need to support 32-bit clients, then just install the 32-bit OS on the server...
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| 03:53 | <xdrazen> sorry. All of those clients can "boot" puppy linux 5.5 (hardy i guess)
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| 03:54 | but some monitors has issues with vesa, then xorg works tuning the frequency and those
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| 03:55 | then, with this pnp (sorry i cannot find a lot of info about it)
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| 03:55 | could i serve those pentiu machines with only 96mb RAM
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| 03:56 | i guess that i am being a bit impertinent
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| 03:56 | <vagrantc> you'd probably have to run them as thin clients, but you can still do that with ltsp-pnp
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| 03:56 | to run modern software, unfortunately, less than 128MB of ram is a big challenge.
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| 03:56 | realistically you'll want 256MB or more.
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| 03:57 | <xdrazen> i could not find more DIM rams for those clients, all of them have all the slots fulled
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| 03:58 | i am more afraid with the "fail boot" that i got some days ago
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| 03:58 | <vagrantc> do they have hard disks?
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| 03:58 | using local swap could help *some* ...
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| 03:58 | <xdrazen> 1 ppro and 1p2 has ide hdd. The others has scsi HDD
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| 03:59 | and when try to boot puppy in the scsi, i got kernel panic
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| 03:59 | <vagrantc> the 90s live!
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| 03:59 | <xdrazen> i never in my live saw that scsi hdd
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| 03:59 | they are kinda "new" for me
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| 04:00 | and some of those clients has so many "differents" mobos and nic cards. It is kinda strange
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| 04:00 | NVM about that
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| 04:00 | what i say is that i got a mistake trying to boot the clients in edubuntu 14.0
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| 04:00 | 14.04 ltsp
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| 04:01 | first of all, it was pretty strange see some "negotiations"
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| 04:01 | <vagrantc> they are, unfortunately, really old clients, and if you want to make a project out of it, that's fine ... but you might have trouble fnding people willing to provide hours and hours of assistance...
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| 04:02 | <xdrazen> when booting, one image was 386mb and then i saw a 512 mb
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| 04:02 | finally all that i could see was only a black screen
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| 04:02 | the last thing that they said is "saned disabled" and then they got a black screen
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| 04:02 | (pentium2) and the pentium pro only got kernel panic
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| 04:03 | <maldridge> I think the default chroot might be too big for your clients
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| 04:03 | <xdrazen> **actually it is very probable to that it was for the xorg version
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| 04:03 | i guess the same, that the default chroot was very big
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| 04:03 | <maldridge> you could put it on a rather extreme diet, but you'll then need a more powerful server to actually host things on the other end
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| 04:04 | <xdrazen> for the server, i have an amd fx 8350
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| 04:04 | (8core with 4Ghz)
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| 04:05 | how so little could be a chroot?
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| 04:05 | <maldridge> well *in theory* you could get it down to 92M
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| 04:06 | <vagrantc> xdrazen: so you have one quite nice server from the last few years, and just a few machines that are roughly 15-20 years old?
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| 04:06 | <maldridge> but that's getting into LFS territory
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| 04:06 | <xdrazen> that it my sad situation actually dear vagrantc
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| 04:06 | <vagrantc> xdrazen: how many clients do you need?
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| 04:07 | <xdrazen> more than "need" i have 9 clients
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| 04:07 | <vagrantc> it's not LTSP, but maybe figuring out how to do multi-seat on the server would work?
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| 04:07 | <xdrazen> all that i want for them, is "ofimatica" and some videos
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| 04:07 | <vagrantc> would probably perform better
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| 04:08 | xdrazen: videos? that's asking a lot of hardware in that spec range.
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| 04:08 | <xdrazen> then had better only abiword and gnumeric. Really do not care
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| 04:09 | <vagrantc> xdrazen: where are you at?
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| 04:09 | xdrazen: what's the project for?
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| 04:10 | <vagrantc> xdrazen: your time might be better served seeking out a grand for a few clients with more reasonable specs...
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| 04:10 | seeking a grant
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| 04:11 | <xdrazen> sorry i got dc
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| 04:12 | <vagrantc> xdrazen: your time might be better served seeking out a grant for a few clients with more reasonable specs...
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| 04:12 | <xdrazen> what about the raspberry pi?
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| 04:13 | <vagrantc> pi2 aren't too bad
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| 04:13 | but originally raspberry pi only have 256-512MB of ram
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| 04:14 | <xdrazen> Well, i will look for them. BUT actually i must do those ppro work with ltsp, even if it would be only "surfing" and abiword-gnumeric
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| 04:17 | <vagrantc> even surfing may crash regularly with so little ram.
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| 04:17 | <xdrazen> the local swap could help a bit, right?
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| 04:18 | <vagrantc> i've made the mistake before of deploying something that basically gave linux, LTSP, whatever, a bad name by being way too slow.
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| 04:18 | <xdrazen> it could even be slow, right?
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| 04:18 | <vagrantc> the web these days is really resource-intensive ... it's not uncommon for a web browser to use several hundred MB of ram
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| 04:19 | so even with local swap, if it's constantly swapping, it could be unusable.
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| 04:20 | <xdrazen> i got it. Well, i had better sleep until ubuntu would be downloaded
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| 04:22 | had better sleep now, i have not had some of dream in this night, only 2 hours.
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| 04:22 | i will be back in 3 hours. Thanks a lot vagrantc huafu and maldridge
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| 04:32 | <huafu> thanks? well you're welcome, I don't think I have been of any help here lol
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| 04:34 | <vagrantc> i'm the honest stick-in-the-mud, you can be the morale booster :)
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| 04:39 | <huafu> vagrantc, hehe sure
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| 06:17 | * gehidore is the court jester | |
| 06:24 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 06:24 | <alkisg> Hi guys
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| 06:27 | * vagrantc cheers | |
| 06:27 | <vagrantc> !alkisg
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| 06:27 | <ltsp`> alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail.
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> Hahaha, not you too! :D
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| 06:27 | !vagrantc
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| 06:27 | <ltsp`> Error: "vagrantc" is not a valid command.
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> !v
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| 06:27 | <ltsp`> v: vagrantc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!
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| 06:28 | * gehidore | |
| 06:28 | <alkisg> Hmm like gnu short options vs long options, -v is accepted, --vagrantc isn't :D
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| 06:28 | <gehidore> long options always appealed to me until I had to type them frequently
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| 06:29 | <vagrantc> tab-completion makes typing long options easy
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| 06:30 | most of the time...
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| 06:37 | <gehidore> assuming you're rocking a system that supports tab complete on options, which the only time I need them is when it doesn't
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| 06:38 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 06:39 | <gehidore> https://gehidore.net/stuff/ih/frontaxle/ last 3 as I said should have great benefit from custom cut u-bolts
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| 06:39 | well that was more weird weechat behavior
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| 06:39 | type that in another buffer hit return and she kicks me back here and dumps the message in :(
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| 06:40 | <alkisg> Maybe you could netboot the front axle though
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| 06:42 | <huafu> morning alkisg!
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| 06:42 | <vagrantc> debian's had support for that platform for years
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| 06:42 | <alkisg> Hello huafu
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| 06:42 | Haha
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| 06:43 | <gehidore> heh @ both of you
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| 06:45 | <huafu> alkisg, I don't think you care but I got all my setup working nicely, with even guest login button - a user per client, cleaned up at each login and copied from a template user. my RPi are thin and others are fat, got the latest flash and I found firefox running faster on slow machines than chrome ;-)
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 06:45 | * alkisg prefers firefox for thin clients as well... well, in general except for some flash-based content | |
| 06:46 | <gehidore> ^^... screw flash
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| 06:46 | chromium ftw :D
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| 06:46 | <alkisg> chromium has flash 19, firefox has 11 :D
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| 06:46 | <huafu> now building mkahawa ;-) and I'll be all set to open my cyber cafe - firefox happens to work better on fat clients too (well at least mine, they are slow), and here people only do facebook and intensive youtube
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| 06:47 | alkisg, I thought they'd all share the flash installed in ubuntu-restricted-extras?
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| 06:47 | anyway, I need flash as html5 for youtube sucks soooooo much CPU
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> no, one has adobe-flashplugin | flashplugin-nonfree, the other has pepperflashplugin
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| 06:47 | <vagrantc> youtube's largely html5 by now, isn't it?
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| 06:47 | oh.
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> Not by default, no
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| 06:48 | <huafu> alkisg, I believe it has a fallback but yeah the default is flash, and flash does use way less CPU than html5 for youtube on my cleints at least
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| 06:49 | <vagrantc> that's surprising that anything could use more resources than flash
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| 06:49 | <alkisg> firefox's implementation of some decoders isn't very good
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| 06:49 | <huafu> vagrantc, css3 animations are huge CPU consumers too
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| 06:49 | <alkisg> flash is better, and chrome's supposed to be even better than flash's
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| 06:50 | Youtube does have different defaults per devices/OSes and it has fallbacks and you can even opt-in to html5 by visiting youtube.com/html5
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| 06:50 | <huafu> alkisg, btw I had made some small instructions for myself to compile mkahawa on ubuntu 14.04, can't make it work following my own tuto lol
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| 06:50 | <gehidore> alkisg: my chromium has no flash
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> gehidore: chromium can use the pepperflashplugin of google chrome
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| 06:50 | <huafu> I tried chromium yesterday and it had crashed too much :/
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> In ubuntu, it recommends that package, which downloads google chrome, extracts flash, then discards the rest
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| 06:51 | (as it's not redistributable outside google chrome)
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| 06:53 | <gehidore> alkisg: aye, I prefer not having flash myself, thus I mention chromium
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> You can _not_ have flash in all browsers :D
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| 06:54 | * gehidore flashes his browser | |
| 06:54 | <gehidore> I keep firefox onboard plus libflash just in case
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| 07:03 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the reporter of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/816139 doesn't respond, does my patch there work for you, so that we can commit it?
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| 07:05 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'll add it to my todo list for tomorrow
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| 07:06 | alkisg: i suspect it will break, as users aren't allowed to specify a full path to a config file
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| 07:06 | <alkisg> vagrantc: it's relative, not absolute
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| 07:06 | What is a "full path"?
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| 07:06 | <vagrantc> ah, i misread your last comment
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> Ah, the auth path? OK
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| 07:07 | It's quite silly what they do though, to disallow absolute paths and allow relative ones
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| 07:08 | <vagrantc> at least in the olden times, X -config foo.conf would look in /etc/X11/foo.conf ...
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| 07:08 | i think a better fix would be for us to write to xorg.conf ...
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| 07:08 | er, /etc/X11/xorg.conf
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| 07:09 | the /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf is a holdover from when / wasn't writeable
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> Not because we want different xorg settings per screen?
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| 07:09 | ...I don't know how we could define those in lts.conf though...
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| 07:09 | <vagrantc> also, when using -config with an invalid entry it will quietly proceed as if you've never specified anything
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| 07:10 | ah, multiple screens with different settings? yes, that's a challenge.
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> I don't mind at all if we write to /etc/X11/xorg.conf
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| 07:10 | <vagrantc> there might be a per-display path that it looks for first?
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> With ltspd we could extend the settings to allow for per screen or per user settings as well
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| 07:11 | ...I'm not sure if it would make much sense though
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| 07:11 | Maybe we're overengineering it
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| 07:12 | <vagrantc> seriously, we should write to /etc/X11/xorg.conf :)
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> +1 :)
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| 07:12 | <vagrantc> or /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d if it's supported
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| 07:13 | * alkisg doesn't know why Ubuntu doesn't have that dir | |
| 07:14 | <alkisg> It doesn't matter for ltsp though
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| 07:16 | * vagrantc waves goodnight | |
| 07:16 | <gehidore> cheers
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> bb!
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| 07:17 | <maldridge> there is xorg.conf.d
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| 07:18 | its probably not a good plan to overwrite the root one, how would you be sure you don't blindly kill a working config
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> If the user specifies XSERVER=vesa and has a xorg.conf present, why wouldn't we overwrite it?
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| 07:20 | He obviously wants us to overwrite it there
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| 07:21 | <maldridge> ah, I missed the part where you explicitly configure the variable
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| 07:30 | <huafu> I know this has nothing to go here but not sure where I should ask and I think you guys might be of some help, I have to run ./configure with LIBS="-lcrypto -ldm -lpthread ..." and even tho I installed all those libxxx-dev, configure complains saying ld can't find -lxxxx
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| 07:31 | any idea what is going on or where I should go and look around what could possibly be wrong? trying some random search on google does not bring me anywhere
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| 10:43 | <huafu> work_alkisg, is there an issue in the doc of lts.conf or I missunderstand something: LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS: ...extra mount points to be mounted on the thin client... (THIN? why would one want to mount something from the server on a thin client since it all runs on the server?)
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| 10:44 | <maldridge> huafu: sometimes you might want additional volumes to be mounted on the client
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| 10:45 | example: I run a steam cluster with LTSP and I need the steam directory to be COW for all users, and ideally mounted seperately for all users
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| 10:45 | <huafu> maldridge, but on a THIN client you have everything from the server since it's like a vnc session on the server, right?
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| 10:45 | <maldridge> not necessarily
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| 10:46 | <huafu> maldridge, so this setting is specifically for thin clients?
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| 10:46 | <maldridge> that is specifically to do with local apps, i.e. things included in the image that actually run on the endpoint
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| 10:46 | not on the server
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| 10:46 | <huafu> maldridge, ah ok, so anything in the image would run locally, even for thin clients?
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| 10:47 | <maldridge> yes
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| 10:47 | a thin client is still a computer, albeit a less powerful one
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| 10:48 | <huafu> so what make epoptes call it thin or fat?
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| 10:48 | <maldridge> that is a question for work_alkisg
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| 10:48 | its 0448 here, I must get some sleep
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| 10:49 | <huafu> ok thank for answering! have a good night
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| 10:49 | <maldridge> np
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| 10:49 | <huafu> originally I got this question because I need to have /home/template-user accessible for all fat clients so that my session script would copy over to the currenctly logging in user
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| 10:50 | in that case what is the best solution for this scenario? I guess I can use LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS right?
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| 11:18 | <huafu> !local-boot
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| 11:18 | <ltsp`> local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
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| 11:18 | <xdrazen> good morning
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| 11:18 | <xdrazen> hi
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| 11:18 | <huafu> xdrazen, good morning ;-) (6pm here :))
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| 11:19 | <xdrazen> ^^ huafu what is up now? XD
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| 11:19 | kinda 7:19 am here
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| 11:19 | the server got a bit dc, right?
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| 11:19 | <huafu> xdrazen, polishing my LTSP setup ;-)
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| 11:20 | xdrazen, dc?
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| 11:20 | <xdrazen> that is great. Do you anything working now?
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| 11:20 | <xdrazen> **disconected. 5 mins ago i cannot log in here
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| 11:20 | <huafu> xdrazen, what?
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| 11:20 | <xdrazen> i mean, How is going your ltsp setup
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| 11:21 | ?
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| 11:21 | <huafu> I setup a script so that when the user click on 'guest login' it is cleaning up the user and copying it from a template. each terminal has its own dedicated user
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| 11:22 | <xdrazen> that is functionally. What "architecture" your clients has?
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| 11:22 | <huafu> so now I can login as the template user, make it look like what I want my clients look like, log out, and next time they login they have a fresh session exaclty looking like the tempalte
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| 11:23 | server is x64 but I installed xubuntu i386 on it, all clients are x86 (very old) and fat, except 2 RPi which are of course armhf (as thin clients)
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| 11:23 | I used tlsp-pnp, except for RPis which have their own chroot
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| 11:24 | all that thanks to alkis mainly ;-)
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| 11:24 | <xdrazen> that is usefull. i got a mistake, i take my "ppro client" (the pentiums pro) but 1 i cannot boot puppy linux with the scsi disk and 2 i did not get the cd-rom reader... then i wonder if the usb dvd reader cuould be handed
| |
| 11:24 | <cyberorg> xdrazen, seen this? https://lizards.opensuse.org/2014/05/31/tiny-core-kiwi-ltsp-thin-client/
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| 11:24 | <xdrazen> thanks a lot cyberorg. I am on it now
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| 11:25 | if it is not a impertinent question. "how so old are your pcs?" huafu?
| |
| 11:26 | <huafu> xdrazen, well not THAT old, 2 are p4, I have some centrinos, and others I yet did not look at :)
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| 11:27 | I need to go buy some thai keyboards and some mouses + AC adapters so that I can have more terminals
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| 11:27 | <xdrazen> they are not so old ^^. I am a bit worried about cannot boot this ppro pcs :(
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| 11:28 | <huafu> most of mine can't boot on usb so LSTP came in handy for that too :)
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| 11:28 | <xdrazen> i am not even sure if the PXE is working on them XD
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| 11:28 | i mean, the bios has it, but when i try to make the boot, it really "does not hear"
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| 11:30 | <huafu> I know they are not that old, but when you think about the first versions date, it's still 15 years ago lol
| |
| 11:30 | does not hear?
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| 11:30 | <xdrazen> year 2k xD
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| 11:30 | <huafu> yup, first p4 were out in 2k I think
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| 11:30 | <xdrazen> i mean, when i boot a "modern" via PXE, they "look for dhcp".
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| 11:30 | <huafu> xdrazen, what does yours?
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| 11:31 | <xdrazen> "insert bootable media" ._.
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| 11:31 | <huafu> can't you make a cdrom with a small kernel which will setup the network and boot from it?
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| 11:31 | xdrazen, then you did not activate the pxe boot as first boot device, or you do not have pxe boot :/
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| 11:32 | <xdrazen> about it, i have the "gpxe" bottable cd. but... i did not take the cd rom reader, then it is useless now
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| 11:32 | <huafu> I am trying to help here but I am very far from being the right person to ask, I began to play with ltsp something like a week ago lol
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| 11:32 | <xdrazen> the only interface is a floppy disk right now
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| 11:33 | (over the client) and this laptop does not have one
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| 11:33 | <huafu> well you can boot from floppy maybe, else you can open the case, remove the hdd, put the kernel from another computer, put back in and voiual
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| 11:33 | <xdrazen> ^^ what matters really is the intention for do
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| 11:33 | <huafu> where are you from btw?
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| 11:34 | <xdrazen> bolivia
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| 11:34 | <huafu> nice, never went there... yet
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| 11:34 | <xdrazen> i mean, even chating here is usefull, it makes not feel so lonelly
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| 11:34 | and where are you from?
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| 11:35 | <huafu> france, but I live in thailand
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| 11:35 | entonzes hables espanol, ja?
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| 11:35 | <xdrazen> si lo hago XD
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| 11:35 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 11:36 | following that?
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| 11:36 | <huafu> yup that is what I used
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| 11:36 | <xdrazen> cyberorg, really thanks for the link, now i am readying that
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| 11:37 | when a promp ask if de pnp-client... should i put yes or no?
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| 11:38 | <huafu> what? you meant nbd soemthing? say no if so
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| 11:38 | <xdrazen> maybe would be helpfully if i try first in a VM?
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| 11:39 | <huafu> sure
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| 11:39 | <xdrazen> nbd something, it asked for "disconect" or kinda
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| 11:39 | <cyberorg> xdrazen, you need pxe booting on the client or gpxe booting
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| 11:39 | <xdrazen> then i messed that, i choosed "yes" :(
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| 11:39 | <huafu> make an internal netwrok, a server vm where you'll install ltsp server, and a client vm where you'll test it
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| 11:40 | <xdrazen> 2 VM?!
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| 11:40 | <huafu> xdrazen, yeah one for the server and one for the client
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| 11:40 | <xdrazen> lol, i do not guess that "this" server could had this
| |
| 11:40 | right now, i am on a amd e1 laptop. The true server will be a fx 8350... but it is far a week at least
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| 11:41 | <huafu> xdrazen, not sure I am following you
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| 11:41 | <xdrazen> what do you mean?
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| 11:41 | my english is rough, unfortunatelly
| |
| 11:42 | <huafu> que no puedo entiender correctamente jaja
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| 11:42 | <xdrazen> what i mean that exactly now i am on an "amd e1 laptop"(2cores at 1ghz)
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| 11:42 | <huafu> what is your vm soft? vbox?
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| 11:43 | <xdrazen> but in a week, i will buy the "amd fx 8350" (for the server, 8cores 4ghz)
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| 11:43 | actually never tried before a VM
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| 11:43 | <huafu> I meant, if you are not installing on the prod machine, then install in some VM so that you can play with it and go back
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| 11:43 | <xdrazen> *** https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 11:43 | not it is not
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| 11:43 | apt-get --yes --install-recommends install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme
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| 11:44 | in that, a text promt asked for that, i set "yes"
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| 11:44 | <huafu> if you never played with vm then maybe test on your machine, if you do not care about loosing stuff in case you mess up
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| 11:44 | <huafu> nevermind it is not important
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| 11:44 | brb
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| 11:44 | <xdrazen> i am a bit "paranoic"
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| 11:44 | cya ^^
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| 11:50 | <xdrazen> huafu are you here?
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| 11:50 | <huafu> yes but some friends just arrived :/
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| 11:50 | <xdrazen> ^^
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| 11:50 | <huafu> will be around but not 100%
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| 11:51 | <xdrazen> only 1 question. What vm software should i try?
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| 11:51 | <huafu> virtualbox is free and easy to install
| |
| 11:52 | <xdrazen> the oracle one?
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| 11:52 | <huafu> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox/Installation
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| 11:52 | yup
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| 11:52 | there is only one, the orcale on
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| 11:53 | <xdrazen> Lol, thanks
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| 11:53 | <huafu> the other well known are vmware, qemu, kvm
| |
| 11:53 | but vbox is the easiest and fastest for your case
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| 11:54 | <xdrazen> well, thanks, i was with this one
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| 11:54 | https://www.thefanclub.co.za/how-to/how-create-virtualbox-ubuntu-ltsp-thin-client
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| 11:59 | <huafu> well sure, but before you can follow this, you must install the vm soft, then create a vbox where you'll install and configure the ltsp pnp server, and then you can follow this one to create a client
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| 12:00 | <xdrazen> got it
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| 12:16 | <xdrazen> cyberorg are you here?
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| 12:17 | https://lizards.opensuse.org/2014/05/31/tiny-core-kiwi-ltsp-thin-client/
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| 12:17 | about it
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| 12:17 | <cyberorg> xdrazen, what about it?
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| 12:18 | <xdrazen> the algorithm is not well defined.
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| 12:18 | what realy happens is that with the tiny core, loads in the client
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| 12:18 | then request the services of the servers like a ltsp tipicall?
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| 12:19 | <cyberorg> it boots tinycore on client and runs X session from server over ssh or rdp
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| 12:20 | it is not ltsp, it just runs "ssh -X server session" or "rdesktop server", so server can be any linux distro with sshd or xrdp running
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| 12:22 | <xdrazen> that is really good. Then 1st i should try to boot my clients with that tinycore and then download the edu life opensuse(i wrote that before that read about "any linux distro)
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| 12:22 | <cyberorg> xdrazen, you don't need li-f-e, you can test it on whatever distro you have available
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| 12:23 | <xdrazen> then. searching for ssh or rdp
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| 12:24 | i must read about it. Again, thanks a lot
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| 12:24 | <cyberorg> as long as you can ssh or rdesktop(yes works with both linux and windows servers) into the server and pxe boot the clients
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| 12:25 | <xdrazen> well i will see you later, i am trying with a VM now because i forgot the bootable device. CYA
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| 12:26 | good morning, i will be back later... good bye and have a nice day
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| 12:26 | <cyberorg> you don't get any features that comes with ltsp on tinycore though, just basic X session running from the server, no local devices/sound/printer etc available, ciao
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| 12:27 | <xdrazen> really, if that works for abiword and gnumeric, and maybe some of internet surf, that is ok.
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| 12:28 | must leave now. CYA
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| 12:59 | <huafu> back
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| 13:00 | does anyone knows if LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS is/are mounted before the session even start?
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| 13:10 | btw work_alkisg https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Getting-Flash
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| 13:29 | <work_alkisg> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=adobe-flashplugin
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| 13:29 | <no results>
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| 13:29 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 13:29 | <alkisg> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=pepperflashplugin-nonfree
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| 13:29 | xenial (web): Pepper Flash Player - browser plugin [multiverse]
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| 13:29 | 1.7ubuntu1: amd64 i386
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| 13:29 | Let me check the repository as well..
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| 13:32 | http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_20151208.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb contains both plugins, nice
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| 13:33 | both the pepper one and the npapi one
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| 13:34 | Thank you huafu
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| 13:34 | About extramounts, they are mounted at the same time as /home, at login, via sshfs
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| 13:34 | <huafu> alkisg, you're welcome ;-)
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| 13:35 | at login, does this mean I can do a script LDM-XSESSION which would use those mount or it's too early?
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> huafu: start with the problem
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| 13:35 | Are you trying to make something like kiosk?
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| 13:35 | <huafu> kinda
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> No persistence at all in user homes?
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| 13:36 | <huafu> nope
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> Then use either tmpfs or nbd for /home
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| 13:36 | No need to use sshfs and get all the troubles of it
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| 13:36 | Where would you use extramounts?
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| 13:36 | to copy the template $HOME?
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| 13:37 | <huafu> I need to, before starting the session, copy the template user (/home/bnh-template) so that it would be the home folder of the user who is going to login (I have 1 user per terminal)
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> Use the same user in all terminals so that you have the same paths, i.e. /home/user
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| 13:37 | Otherwise many settings that rely on the user path won't work
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| 13:38 | Don't use ssh as you can't have the same path for many users
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| 13:38 | <huafu> no because then the thin clients would work on the same path on the server right?
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| 13:38 | <alkisg> ...and don't use thin clients either
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| 13:38 | <huafu> :/
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| 13:38 | <alkisg> If you use thin clients, it's conceptually broken
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| 13:38 | You'll have to examine all the settings for absolute paths to /home/bnh-template
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| 13:39 | gconf, dconf, wine, firefox, all of them
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| 13:39 | Most apps will behave an store the relative path, but many of them will also have issues
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| 13:39 | <huafu> ok I guess I do not understand correctly the difference between thin and fat, thought I re-re-read the ltspFatClient
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> It's not about ltsp, it's about linux and applications now
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| 13:39 | You can't use a template user for other users
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| 13:40 | Because many applications will store absolute filenames
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| 13:40 | That will refer to the template path, not the copied path
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| 13:40 | In many cases it will work, in some it will break and you'll have a hard time troubleshooting it
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| 13:41 | <huafu> alkisg, I wanted to have /srv/my-template-folder being a symlink to /home/template, then at login of any user in a given group I'd copy this folder, removing the .Xauthority and maybe some other stuff before staring the session (I could of course make /home a tmpfs for best perf then)
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| 13:41 | <alkisg> I think you're missing my point
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| 13:41 | <huafu> I am sure I am missing something, it might be your point lol
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| 13:41 | <alkisg> Let's call the template user simply "user"
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| 13:41 | You login as "user"
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| 13:42 | You arrange firefox the way you want it. You put a bookmark. OK?
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| 13:42 | <huafu> yes
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> Firefox creates a profile at /home/user/.firefox/profile
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| 13:42 | Then you copy /home/user to /home/another-user
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> At that point, /home/another-user/.firefox/profile will try to write to /home/user/.firefox, and will get access denied
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| 13:43 | (*if* firefox uses an absolute path instead of a relative one)
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| 13:43 | <huafu> why would it try to do so, paths are stored relatively to the home folder isn't it?
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| 13:43 | <alkisg> No
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| 13:43 | That's what I was talking about
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| 13:43 | <huafu> ??? why?
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| 13:43 | <alkisg> 90% of the apps will store it relative
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| 13:43 | 10% will store the absolute path
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| 13:43 | And these will cause you problems
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| 13:43 | <huafu> fuck the 10% lol
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| 13:44 | I need a different user because it is like this I can log and identify how long a session lasted
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| 13:44 | and identify my clients with my cyber cafe soft
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> You can have 10 different users, all with the same home dir at fat clients
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| 13:44 | But you can't use thins in my idea
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| 13:44 | <huafu> I need to be able to use both
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| 13:46 | but thanks for the tmpfs, why am I sshfsing the home folder since I wipe it out lol
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| 13:46 | <alkisg> tmpfs needs ram, nbd home doesn't need ram
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| 13:46 | So it will work with lower ram on the clients
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| 13:46 | <huafu> nbd is over the network rigth?
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| 13:47 | <alkisg> Yes, it's the same as for root (/) and swap
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| 13:47 | <huafu> so it'll use the network, I think it's better I use tmpfs on swap
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| 13:47 | I use local swap, I put back the hdd in my fat clients and created some fat plus lts.conf use local swap
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| 13:47 | <alkisg> OK
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| 13:48 | <huafu> created some swap, not fat lol
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| 13:48 | <alkisg> You can also use local home
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| 13:48 | (and clean it whenever you want)
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| 13:48 | <huafu> well it needs to be wiped, I don't want client 2 coming after client 1 to see those
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| 13:48 | <alkisg> The good thing about nbd home is that you won't need to copy the skeleton
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| 13:48 | The cleaning part is the same in all cases
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| 13:49 | <huafu> alkisg, why? I need to wipe it somehow
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| 13:49 | <alkisg> With nbd, you unmount the old and mount the new, and you have the skeleton there, completely cleaned
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| 13:49 | <huafu> I meant, if I use nbd, it'll pick it up from server and write it there too, so it'll use the network for all writes and read
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| 13:49 | <alkisg> In all the other cases, yes you need to wipe the home dir before and after login
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| 13:50 | <huafu> nbd does not write back to the server?
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| 13:50 | <alkisg> nbd is a block device
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| 13:50 | You can put the skeleton inside it
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| 13:50 | And with `nbd-server -c` (copy on write), it's writeable for many clients even if you only have 1 read only template
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| 13:50 | Anyways, tmpfs is fine as well
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| 13:51 | <huafu> alkisg, can you go back to speaking english please?
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| 13:51 | :D
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> Hahaha
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| 13:51 | <huafu> I lost you at "nbd is a block device"
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> truncate -s 1G home.img
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| 13:51 | mkfs.ext4 home.img
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| 13:51 | mount home.img /mnt
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| 13:51 | rsync -a /home/user /mnt
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| 13:51 | umount /mnt
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| 13:51 | nbd-server -c home.img
| |
| 13:52 | Is that better than english? :)
| |
| 13:52 | <huafu> bon et bien je vais parler francais alors!
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> That way, home.img already contains the template home dir
| |
| 13:52 | <huafu> lemme look at that
| |
| 13:52 | <alkisg> You don't need to transfer it, it's already there
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| 13:53 | Ή καλύτερα να αρχίσω τα ελληνικά; :P :D
| |
| 13:53 | <huafu> voila
| |
| 13:53 | :)
| |
| 13:53 | home.img, is that another image than i386.img?
| |
| 13:53 | <alkisg> Yes, that's the image for home
| |
| 13:54 | You have i386 for root, swap for swap, and home for home (a new one just for you)
| |
| 13:54 | <huafu> alkisg, ok and where I can tell the server to serve it, and _some_ clients to use it (the fat ones in my case)?
| |
| 13:54 | oh, for the server I gues in /etc/nbd...
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 13:55 | For the clients, somewhere before ldm/rc.d/X01-localapps
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| 13:56 | <huafu> I also saw that my fat clients do transfer the swap while they do have a local swap, how can i disable that? in other terms, what config file or script..... ok that previous message answers it
| |
| 13:56 | ok, first lemme do some lvm snapshot (yes I am proud of knowing about lvm now :p) and then I'll do some melting pot :p
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> NBD_SWAP=False
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| 13:59 | LOCAL_SWAP=True
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| 14:09 | <huafu> thx
| |
| 14:09 | ps - that was easy to understand :D
| |
| 14:10 | <alkisg> :)
| |
| 14:23 | <huafu> btw alkisg for my old computers, since I know my users will do some intensive youtube, I found the perfect thing for that: minitube (you can find the ppa on webup8)
| |
| 14:23 | <alkisg> !flash
| |
| 14:23 | <ltsp`> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
| |
| 14:23 | <alkisg> There's also that ^
| |
| 14:24 | <huafu> alkisg, the 1st goal is to avoid all the resources the browser sucks just being on a youtube page lol
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| 14:24 | video lags a bit on my old computers inside a browser, not in that
| |
| 14:24 | <alkisg> linterna is using vlc
| |
| 14:24 | what is minitube using?
| |
| 14:25 | <huafu> ...flash I believe, but I needed some interface close enough to youtube, else my users won't use it
| |
| 14:25 | linterna? can't find a correct link
| |
| 14:25 | <alkisg> what's wrong with clicking on the link that i pasted?
| |
| 14:26 | read...!
| |
| 14:26 | <huafu> LOL, I did not read the whole thing hahahaa
| |
| 14:26 | <alkisg> minitube is using vlc through the kde libraries
| |
| 14:27 | linternal is using vlc inside firefox
| |
| 14:27 | <huafu> ah man, I need some sleep, I think that is about a week I am sleeping like 2-3 hours a night and just having my eyes in front of this machine
| |
| 14:27 | <alkisg> Neither of them uses flash
| |
| 14:27 | <huafu> oh I thought minitube was using flash too, ok good!
| |
| 14:28 | I did look at some others like youtube-viwer, I might have mixed
| |
| 14:30 | what is wrong with this server? 41% 11.5K 6m15s
| |
| 14:30 | lol
| |
| 14:30 | 20 minutes to dl 7mb
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| 14:30 | I feel like using my old internet of 6 months ago
| |
| 14:32 | <alkisg> After installing that latest flash. firefox: You have version 11,2,202,554 installed. chromium: You have version 20,0,0,228 installed
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| 14:32 | :)
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| 14:36 | <huafu> hahahaha
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| 14:36 | I need to logout, tty in a minute
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| 14:38 | <huafu> back
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| 17:43 | <xdrazen> hi
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| 17:43 | i am back
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| 17:43 | good afternoon huafu and cyberorg. Are the most that i can remember
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| 17:44 | <huafu> hi xdrazen, soon 1am here, very tired ;-)
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| 17:44 | <xdrazen> ^^ kinda strange, making the thing with the virtual machine
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| 17:44 | it worked with 96 ram
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| 17:45 | and maybe even with 80
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| 17:45 | huafu, i would like to know, i would like to make a VM wich could "emulate a pentium pro pc with s3 virge graphic card"
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| 17:45 | is it possible?
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| 17:46 | <huafu> afaik not with vbox
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| 17:46 | and I am not sure you can with others, maybe qemu, you'll have to ask google, IDK too much about that
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| 17:46 | <xdrazen> i am reading a bit, but i cannot mind the keywords for search
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| 17:48 | pretty pretty interesting thing. the VM worked with 80 mb ram, but with 64 i get a "kernel panic"
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| 17:50 | huafu, correct me... i guess that what i am lookinf for is a "emulator"?
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| 17:51 | <huafu> 80mb of ram? put at least 138
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| 17:51 | sorry 128
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| 17:52 | <xdrazen> i understand that... but i wanna make a "extreme" minimum pc
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| 17:53 | <huafu> xdrazen, I think first you need to not worry too much about the CPU or the graphic card, especially for the server. just be sure of selecting the same arch (32bit in your case), and then make it work like that with also a simple client. when you're familiar with the setup and played a bit with the ltsp setup, you'll be more confident while doing it on your future real machines - anyway, that's what I'd do
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| 17:56 | <xdrazen> you are on true
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| 17:57 | well, actually this is working
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| 17:57 | in the VM, i will make a try on a i7 pc which is here
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| 17:58 | <huafu> if you have old machines which will be your clients, be sure to install the 32 bit version of the system on the server so that it'll work on the clients
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| 18:01 | <xdrazen> kk, i am over it
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| 18:02 | i already done it
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| 18:30 | <fgudhfhjf> hi all
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| 18:31 | i was wanting to know if the new linux by anonymous is ok to use
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| 18:46 | <work_alkisg> fgudhfhjf: are you sure you are in the right irc channel?
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| 18:47 | This is about ltsp, not general linux
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| 18:47 | try the #linux channel
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| 19:00 | <huafu> work_alkisg, can I put multiple `LIKE` in one section to inherit from multiple other sections in a lts.conf?
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| 19:56 | <huafu> ufff, can't think anymore, I'm off to bed, ttyl
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| 22:36 | <xdrazen> good afternoon
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| 22:42 | i wonder... if a VM works with ltsp, could the real client not work?
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| 22:47 | <vagrantc> using a virtual thin client works, but the real client doesn't work?
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| 22:47 | <xdrazen> hi vagrantc. Yes, it happens
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| 22:47 | right now i wonder if it is for the NIC
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| 22:48 | <vagrantc> hardware support for the virtual machines is often quite good :)
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| 22:48 | probably less so for very old physical hardware
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| 22:48 | although, to some extent, old hardware support tends to be decent in some areas
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| 22:48 | video not being one of them
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| 22:48 | <xdrazen> eventually, i tried the same boot cd
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| 22:49 | but with other NIC and other pc
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| 22:50 | right now i will retry changin the client
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| 22:51 | i am actually using gpxe for boot with PXE
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| 22:57 | vagrantc
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| 22:57 | i wonder, may i have a virtual machine with specific hardware?
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| 22:58 | like define a pentium pro pc, or a NIC specific...
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> several virtual machines allow you to use certain specific hardware, sure. but not any random piece of hardware you can think of...
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| 22:58 | <maldridge> xdrazen: generally no
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| 22:58 | what NIC are you working with that isn't in the kernel anyway?
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> you can select the processor type, and from a handfull of nics in libvirt with kvm backend
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| 22:59 | <xdrazen> that is a sad thing, a lot of NIC
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| 22:59 | <vagrantc> although the accuracy of the virtualization of specific hardware is not guaranteed to be 100% accurate
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| 23:00 | <xdrazen> ^
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| 23:00 | **^^
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| 23:00 | <vagrantc> uh?
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| 23:01 | <xdrazen> this is quite difficult... i really wonder why the thin client cannot boot
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| 23:02 | <vagrantc> maybe because the hardware you're testing on hasn't been tested by any developer of any of the software you're trying to use in over 15 years?
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| 23:03 | <xdrazen> mmm well, i already tried boot with the cd with a different pc. i will assemble it now and be back
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