IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 28 June 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 04:28 | <elias_a> stgraber: Sorry to hear you have so skip Akademy.
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| 04:30 | Would it be possible for you to give a short presentation from Canada?
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| 05:47 | <zeitsofa> hello :) my thinclients can't boot from LTPS Server, but i don't know why. at syslog i found the line in.tftpd [2843] tftp: client doas not accespt options. thats all i found. can anyone help me to solve it?
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| 06:47 | <xperia2> hello to all. i am totally new to ltsp and i am searching for information to buy chip hardware that works with ltsp and ubuntu. what for possibility exist if i want to start as a example in a development country a nation wide internet caffe ?
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| 06:48 | exist some cheap cards for attaching monitors and keyboards/mouse to such cards maybe even for multiple user at once ?
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> zeitsofa: what message do you see when the client tries to boot?
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| 06:50 | E.g. tftp error, or no boot filename etc
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| 10:18 | <atkuepker> anybody know offhand what shell is used by the X11 process that calls sbalneav's Xexit? Trying to customize that script to NOT run if $USER == "root"
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| 10:18 | under Ubuntu, mind.
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| 10:43 | <atkuepker> if anyone else cares (or ends up finding this page in the archives), it's being called by /etc/X11/Xsession and is using the '.' shell call and thus is using the current Ubuntu 9.10 default of /bin/dash. Not exactly tolerant of non-POSIX-perfect code.
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| 11:54 | <johnny> atkuepker, yep.. that's how it's been .. all scripts that ubuntu relies upon must be runnable by dash
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| 11:54 | if they aren't.. it's a major issue
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| 11:56 | <alkisg> Unless they have #!/bin/bash on top :)
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| 11:58 | <atkuepker> no kidding... I have 10 years worth of legacy scripts to support. Really not liking how constraining dash is. Probably getting to be time to drop shell scripting entirely and move to python or similar.
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| 12:00 | <vagrantc> if you're relying on bash features, explicitly specify bash and be done with it.
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| 12:01 | <atkuepker> or for that matter, any of the POSIX features that Dash hasn't implemented yet.
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| 12:02 | * vagrantc suspects dash is much more POSIX compliant than bash | |
| 12:03 | <atkuepker> won't argue that. but I don't expect bash to be all that compliant. I get pretty irritated when Dash doesn't have something that it's supposed to.
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> "supposed to"
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| 12:04 | <atkuepker> for posix compliance. gotta walk the talk.
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| 12:05 | * vagrantc wonders what the talk really is | |
| 12:05 | <alkisg> LIke what?
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| 12:10 | <atkuepker> if so much noise is going to be made about Dash being the Shell of Choice because of its compliance with POSIX standards, it should fully comply.
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| 12:10 | otherwise, it's just pedantry that eats up even more of my time.
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| 12:11 | <vagrantc> and it doesn't comply how?
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| 12:12 | <atkuepker> some of the environment variables don't work as expected. it's a known issue, apparently.
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| 12:13 | <vagrantc> well, the main reason that ubuntu switched, i believe, was a noteable speed improvement ... the posix issues are largely a side-effect.
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| 12:13 | <alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DashAsBinSh
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| 12:14 | <atkuepker> boot speed is what I got from the press releases. Which I couldn't really care less about. A 20 second bootup is meaningless when the xSeries RAID cards spend 3 minutes sync'ing up.
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| 12:15 | <vagrantc> at least on debian, you can configure bash as the default /bin/sh if it's really so painful.
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| 12:15 | i think ubuntu works as well
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| 12:15 | <atkuepker> but is rather risky, as alkisg's link points out
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| 12:17 | I doubt I'll move my systems back to Bash. Just not worth the hassle.
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| 12:22 | <Ghid0rah> I'm having gnome/x crash on specific hardware for only a certain groups of users
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| 12:22 | the same user accounts work on other hardware
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> !compiz
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| 12:24 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 12:33 | <Ghid0rah> alkisg if it were possible I'd want to have your babies...
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> Heheh, I already have 2 of them, no room for more :D
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| 12:34 | *3
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| 12:34 | Bah damn typos
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| 12:34 | <Ghid0rah> argh
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| 12:34 | that problem was so frustrating
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> Yeah and it only appears under remote X...
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| 12:34 | We need to annoy the compiz developers a bit about it :)
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| 12:42 | <Ghid0rah> ya know
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| 12:43 | I've never had the level of support, even with commerical products, as I do here
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| 12:43 | it is amazing how quick of a response you guys give.
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| 12:47 | <johnny> Ghid0rah, except it tends to be only active during usa/europe business hours
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| 12:47 | and only during weekdays
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| 12:47 | <Ghid0rah> which is awesome
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| 12:47 | <johnny> sometimes you'll run into people at other times (like alkisg or myself)
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| 12:48 | <Ghid0rah> because that is when I'm working on this
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| 12:48 | <johnny> Ghid0rah, sure.. but it sucks for people who live west of western europe
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| 12:48 | <Ghid0rah> for more than 1 reason ;)
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| 12:48 | <johnny> obviously some people end up overlapping
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| 12:49 | but still.. it'd be nice to have it more active elsewise
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| 12:49 | <Ghid0rah> true
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| 15:16 | <Ghid0rah> Does anyone know if there is away around x closing upon failed login?
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| 15:33 | <denisesball> hey, does anyone have access to a terminal on ubuntu 10.04? i have a website that continually completely crashes all my terminals
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| 15:33 | and its such a simple site
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| 15:33 | konqueror does not crash
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> Link?
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| 15:35 | <Ghid0rah> I'll test it too
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| 15:36 | <denisesball> jgarigen.com
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| 15:36 | it hangs firefox and then goes black, and then kicks me to the login
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| 15:37 | i tried creating nbdswap.conf w/128mb and no help. gotta be a firefox thing, cuz konq is fine
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| 15:37 | <Ghid0rah> seems to work for me
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| 15:37 | <denisesball> oh course
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> How much ram does your client have?
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| 15:37 | <Ghid0rah> isn't that how it always it
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| 15:37 | <denisesball> 128mb
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| 15:37 | <Ghid0rah> are you doing local apps with those clients?
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| 15:37 | <denisesball> no local apps
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| 15:37 | and all terminals crash on the site
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> Try rebooting and passing "nocompcache" in pxelinux.cfg/default, while NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf
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| 15:38 | <denisesball> same with townballroom.com
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| 15:38 | alkisg: do i have to put NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf for it to use /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf.?
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| 15:38 | because i did not
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 15:39 | <Ghid0rah> when should NBD_SWAP be used?
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| 15:39 | <denisesball> yeesh, that is not clear in the manual
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| 15:40 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 15:40 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> Doesn't NBD_SWAP in that page mention it?
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| 15:42 | Yup, xorg runs out of memory with 128M on that page
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| 15:42 | <denisesball> yeah it does on that page
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> In my case firefox closes but X doesn't - and I got a local `top` running to verify the memory problem
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| 15:43 | <denisesball> alkisg: oh sweet, you confirmed the crash?
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> Yeah it's the classic X pixmaps problem
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| 15:43 | <denisesball> trying nbdswap=128 WITH NBD_SWAP=True in lts.conf this time :P
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| 15:44 | <Ghid0rah> alkisg
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| 15:44 | when should NBDSwap be used?
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> denisesball: the problem is that the initial jpg in that site is 1.3 MB, which is huge
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| 15:45 | Ghid0rah: when you need swap...
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| 15:45 | In general, you need swap with <= 128 RAM, or if you use localapps
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| 15:45 | <denisesball> holy crap alkisg good catch!
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| 15:46 | <Ghid0rah> sorry for my ignorance on this... what is a good amount of swap?
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| 15:46 | <denisesball> that would explain the townballroom.com crashes too, looks liek they also dont know how to scale
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| 15:46 | <Ghid0rah> do you need swap if you have 1gb of memory on a thin client with local apps?
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> denisesball: so if you point firefox JUST to the image, it still crashes: http://jgarigen.com/web_images/website_entrance.jpg
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| 15:48 | <denisesball> yep i see that
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| 15:48 | even with adding 128mb of nbdswap, i still crash
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Ghid0rah: on normal PCs it is said that you should reserve 1-2 times the RAM as a swap space
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| 15:48 | <denisesball> is there a way to verify nbdswap is working?
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Ghid0rah: so, for a normal PC with 1 Gb ram, one would use a 2 Gb swap partition
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| 15:49 | Now, it's not easy to have 2 Gb swap for each client on the server
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| 15:49 | So, usually we don't do it. But if you open firefox with 50 tabs locally, you might experience crashes...
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| 15:49 | denisesball: run `free` from a localxterm
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| 15:50 | !localxterm
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| 15:50 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 15:50 | <denisesball> alkisg: ok 1 sec, after i reboot the thing again...
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> For some reason rendering a 1.3 MB jpeg makes firefox tell xorg to use 50+ MB of memory.
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| 15:55 | And rendering the same image with chrome doesn't make xorg use any memory, so no crashing there. It's extemely slow to render though, while using eog is quite fast.
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| 15:56 | <denisesball> gotta be a firefox bug?
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> So we should probably file a bug against firefox, because using so much memory isn't normal...
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| 15:56 | <denisesball> yeah thats a problem for my users, all they use is firefox and web apps
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| 15:58 | <denisesball> alkisg: you gonna file the bug?
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| 15:58 | im about to leave
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> Nah, no time to properly address it
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| 15:58 | <denisesball> will someone else? or do u need me to?
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> If you have some time, please do.
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| 15:59 | <denisesball> ok ill try to get to it tomorrow
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| 16:03 | <denisesball> ok alkisg running free in a local xterm, i have 12056 total Mem and 161072 free Swap
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| 16:03 | firefox still destroys the terminal going to that website!
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| 16:05 | <alkisg> That picture is 6480x4320 pixels!!! Insane!
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| 16:05 | So, with 32bpp, it would need 111974400 bytes of xorg memory, i.e. 107MB
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| 16:06 | <denisesball> should i keep increasing it until it works lol
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| 16:06 | just for a test case
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> Nah
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| 16:06 | Try X_RAMREC
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| 16:06 | Errrr perc
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| 16:06 | See lts.conf about it
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| 16:06 | <denisesball> what should i set it to?
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> Try different values, I don't know what would work. But it should keep the TC from crashing...
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| 16:07 | * alkisg tries to crash firefox with a huge _blank_ image... | |
| 16:07 | <denisesball> should i keep the ndb swap too?
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> A little swap is OK, the default 64Mb should suffice
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| 16:08 | <denisesball> "By default, swap files are 32 Megabytes in size."
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> You might also want to remove compcache if you enable nbd_swap
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| 16:08 | <denisesball> isnt 32 the default?
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> Nope, it's 64 on lucid
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| 16:08 | We need to update the docs
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> Hmmm it seems there's something special with this particular picture. I made a test case with an 10000x10000 image, and firefox doesn't crash...
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> OK, here's a test case: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/tmp/
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| 16:49 | The "no-xorg-memory.jpg" doesn't crash, while the "xorg-memory.jpg" crashes
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| 16:49 | The second image makes xorg use TEMPORARILY 120 MB of additional memory
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| 16:50 | Both images are of the same dimensions...
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> I tried saving the image as jpg, and xorg doesn't use 120MB+ RAM anymore. So it's probably a problem in the jpg library that firefox uses
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| 17:05 | ***tried saving the image as png
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| 17:07 | Oooops sorry it did happen it just happened too fast and I didn't see it with `top`. The client still crashed though. :)
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| 19:34 | <jammcq> hey friends
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