IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 May 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I'm thinking to change the defaults to NFS+ltsploop, you ok with that?
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| 20:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm sort of pleasantly surprised :)
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| 20:27 | alkisg: i presume you mean for the new code?
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| 20:27 | <alkisg> Eh :D
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| 20:27 | Sure for the new code it's already there; I meant for ltsp5
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| 20:27 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 20:27 | <alkisg> ...for new installations, of course
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| 20:28 | <vagrantc> it's obviously too late for buster to switch like that
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 20:28 | <vagrantc> but there are always backports (at least if someone uploads them)
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| 20:29 | <alkisg> So it's not too intrusive if I make it the default for new installations, via the ppa and 20.04, right?
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| 20:29 | * alkisg will need to read up on conffiles... | |
| 20:29 | <vagrantc> your call, really
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| 20:29 | <alkisg> Ty
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> conffile upgrades are really smooth if they haven't changed anything locally
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| 20:30 | they're kind of annoying if people have made local edits, but at least it's a predictible annoyance
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> That's nice... there's also the matter of running ltsp-config nfs before it actually works
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| 20:30 | and apt install nfs-kernel-server
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> well, that should be handled in recommends/depends
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| 20:31 | at least installing it
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> Recommends won't work with upgrades... and depends might be too intrusive...
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| 20:31 | * vagrantc wonders if we should assume /etc/exports.d/ is supported | |
| 20:32 | <vagrantc> i guess we could just bump the minimum version required to avoid editing /etc/exports
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| 20:32 | alkisg: "new" recommends should work with upgrades
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> Ah, those 2 solve the issue then
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| 20:32 | <vagrantc> at least in recent years ... really old installations might have issues
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| 20:33 | not sure if other distros support /etc/exports.d ...
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| 20:33 | been... maybe 4 years since i abandoned NFS :)
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| 20:34 | i think i had ltsp-config nfs just edit /etc/exports as it was too complicated to ... check for redundant entries in /etc/exports and /etc/exports.d/*
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| 20:34 | though maybe that check should still happen...
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| 20:34 | alkisg: so you must really like this nfs+ltsploop ... you're even trying to "backport" it!
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| 20:35 | <alkisg> It's sooooo much easy to have 20 VMs with it!
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| 20:35 | That nbd-server configuration is horrible
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| 20:35 | (aside from the instabilities)
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| 20:35 | I also wanted to ask you about the authentication part. I think that at the end of gsoc, I'll have ltsp ready without authentication; which means it'll work with passwd/shadow in the initramfs or fetched from local media etc (and of course for guest sessions),
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| 20:35 | ...while the libpam-sshauth part will be missing; maybe sbalneav can take a look, or someone else, or me the next year etc,
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| 20:36 | <vagrantc> i thought this would be your last GSoC?
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| 20:36 | <alkisg> ...so the question there is... work on that, which means we have a real display manager, or ... use ldm or reimplement it in python?
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| 20:36 | Next year outside of gsoc
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| 20:37 | * vagrantc wonders if it would be possible to crowsource the last next-generation feature | |
| 20:37 | <alkisg> I can widely test the shadow+real dm part here in schools, as we don't mind much about the security implications there,
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| 20:37 | ^ right
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| 20:37 | So I hope it would attract someone to fill that missing bit, the authentication,
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> authless would still be very useful in it's own right
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| 20:38 | <alkisg> while if I go for a quick ldm merge or reimplementation , it'll again be a bit messy, we'll have to launch our screen scripts and all
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> i really want to avoid ldm or reimplementing it
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| 20:38 | so i would rather see an incomplete thing that makes it clear what's left
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| 20:38 | <alkisg> Can it be uploaded in debian at that stage though? Can it replace the existing ltsp? Should it?
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| 20:39 | Maybe it should temporarily use another name, ltsp-next or something?
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| 20:39 | Or at least the old package to still be available like ltsp5...
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| 20:40 | We can clearly state, "sending shadow is insecure; use kerberos/nfs4 etc, or help in libpam", but is that enough?
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| 20:40 | <vagrantc> we can certainly make uploads to experimental
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| 20:41 | it's in the name, after all :)
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| 20:41 | <alkisg> And I can make it available to the ppa, for those that choose to use it. Works for me.
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| 20:41 | <vagrantc> maybe calling the source package ltsp-next
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| 20:42 | or some ltsp-CODENAME ?
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| 20:42 | i guess ltsp-next always gives room to reimplement it yet again when we've made new mistakes to learn from
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> OK we'll have enough time to decide the name; I wanted to focus on what the roadmap should be
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| 20:43 | I'm having a lot of ideas, many of them are worthy but they do also need time for implementation
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| 20:43 | And I wouldn't like to turn down good ideas because of lack of time
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> i'd be happy to upload to experimental, and you can have a ppa for the ubuntu side ... so that sounds pretty good
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> E.g. I'll stop NN-scripts and start using hooks; it's a much more stable interface
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> the difference?
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> (thought that one while jogging; it's great for new ideas!)
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| 20:44 | Suppose that epoptes needs to run something after 09-hostname and before 10-whatever
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| 20:44 | So it ships a file 09-z-epoptes, to go between those
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| 20:44 | Then we want to renumber all the scripts because we stuff more things there
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| 20:44 | ...and we can't, because other packages rely on numbering
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| 20:45 | In the new method, epoptes would say "add a hook after the hostname function"
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| 20:45 | <vagrantc> ah, so basically dependency based
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| 20:45 | after, before, etc?
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| 20:45 | <alkisg> Right, each script is now a function, and we support before/after hooks
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc> those dependecy trees can get surprisingly complicated fast
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> It's not dependencies, it's hooks
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc> calling it something different doesn't change it :P
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> Dracut tries to get dependency/event driven, and it's too complicated,
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| 20:46 | while initramfs-tools provides clearly defined hooks, pre-init, premount, etc, and it's a lot cleaner
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| 20:46 | It's a different concept
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| 20:47 | <vagrantc> but if you have two different hooks after X, which one runs first?
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> Hooks is just before/after; dependency means resolutions and trees
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| 20:47 | <vagrantc> in initramfs-tools i sometimes need something to go in-between something that isn't defined
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| 20:47 | which i have had to get fixed upstream
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> Exactly; that's the best part
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| 20:48 | Downstream users or apps that need extra hooks, should ask them
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| 20:48 | <vagrantc> initramfs-tools overall has been pretty flexible over it's many years
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> Now there wasn't much cooperation even between ltsp implementation in different distros
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| 20:49 | <vagrantc> that was both the strength and an eventual weakness
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| 20:49 | <alkisg> By disabling 09-z-numbering there, we force people to contact us and cooperate :)
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| 20:50 | <vagrantc> initramfs-tools implements both, though
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| 20:50 | <alkisg> True, but we don't expect so many apps adding hooks to ltsp
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| 20:51 | <vagrantc> always interesting to find out what people end up actually doing :)
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> And we could easily add a function for that if we have to, example:
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| 20:51 | pre_hook configure_sound some_epoptes_function
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| 20:52 | let's say that's how epoptes adds a hook, if we need to, we can extend it to,
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| 20:52 | pre_hook configure_sound some_epoptes_function 10 (priority), or
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| 20:52 | pre_hook configure_sound some_epoptes_function 10 before=that_other_package_function (dependency)
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| 20:52 | but I hope we won't have to
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| 20:53 | I hope it'll be simpler, not more difficult to understand :D
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| 20:53 | <vagrantc> indeed
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| 20:55 | <alkisg> Ah, vagrantc one last thing: https://github.com/NetworkBlockDevice/nbd/issues/87#issuecomment-464342328
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| 20:56 | To use root=/dev/nbd0p1, the initramfs code of nbd needs to be changed
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| 20:56 | Wouter fixed it for later versions, but what can we do about older ones?
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| 20:57 | A simple sed call fixes it; but it's an awful hack, to sed other people's code
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| 20:57 | ...should I put such code in ltsp, or just tell anyone affected to do it manuall?
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| 20:58 | Also, wouter fixed only half of the issue, the other half still doesn't work; the sed command fixes both of them
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| 21:00 | Although now if we switch away from nbd, this isn't that important anymore :D
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> always nice to fix things if we can even if we don't use them, but i know there's a matter of priorities
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| 21:11 | <alkisg> No I mean, is it OK to sed /scrits/local-top/nbd to fix wouter's code while we boot?
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| 21:11 | It's it horrible practise?
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| 21:12 | But at that point there, we can't put a wrapper or hook or fix it afterwards, so sed is all we can do
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| 21:12 | Anyways.. it's late; ty for all the input; good night :)
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> yeah, seems like bad form in general
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| 21:14 | night!
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| 21:21 | <josefig> hi guys :)
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| 21:37 | the RCFILE_01 option on lts.conf keeps working?
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| 21:41 | <vagrantc> there were some bugs in some versions where it didn't
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| 21:42 | look on the client and see if /etc/rc.local is modified to include your change when you boot it, then it's working...
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| 21:45 | <josefig> i had to create the directory, i added the RCFILE_01="/etc/rc.local/xscreensaver-log" should work
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| 21:47 | <vagrantc> /etc/rc.local is a file, not a directory
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| 21:47 | or should be a file
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| 21:51 | <josefig> yes i see my error, so the script should be included there?
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| 21:51 | <vagrantc> RCFILE_* adds lines to /etc/rc.local
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| 21:52 | <josefig> ahh! i see thanks
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| 21:54 | vagrantc, the rc.local file should exist right?
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> just experiment and find ou
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| 21:55 | out
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| 21:55 | <josefig> yes, the image is being created :P
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> if your version of ltsp is more recent than july 2018, it should create the file if needed
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| 21:56 | <josefig> yes it's more recent than that date
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