IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 September 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:10 | <k4m3h4t3> somebody help me
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| 03:42 | <alkisg> stgraber: ogra said it was needed, and a user here confirmed that it worked, that's about all I know about jetpipe :)
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| 03:42 | !ask | echo k4m3h4t3:
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| 03:42 | <ltsp> k4m3h4t3: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 03:47 | <k4m3h4t3> i was install edubuntu 12.04.1 and option lstp was active but why i can't find ltsp after instaltion finish
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| 03:48 | !ask installation ltsp
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| 03:48 | <ltsp> Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
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| 03:48 | <k4m3h4t3> !ask
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| 03:48 | <ltsp> ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 03:54 | <stgraber> alkisg: hmm, ok... would have to check the python code, because although it surely works to just spawn it in the background, it's wrong as jetpipe is supposed to do that itself...
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| 03:55 | <alkisg> stgraber: it might also be related to the fact that it's now run from pid 1, init, although I can't imagine why exactly...
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| 03:56 | k4m3h4t3: so now you don't have ltsp installed? dpkg-query -W ltsp-server
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| 03:57 | <stgraber> alkisg: yeah, can't see why that'd have any effect, would have to try and run it to figure out what's going on
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| 03:57 | alkisg: based on the code, it should always background itself unless called with -d
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| 03:58 | <alkisg> When I run `bash` from init, it says "no job control available", dunno why bash says that, but it might be related somehow
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| 03:58 | (and then & works... !)
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| 04:01 | <k4m3h4t3> the result :ltsp-server 5.3.7-0ubuntu.2.2
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| 04:01 | alkisg the result :ltsp-server 5.3.7-0ubuntu.2.2
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| 04:01 | <alkisg> k4m3h4t3: so, you do have ltsp installed, are you trying to find it in the menus?
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| 04:02 | <k4m3h4t3> i was try. but i can't find in the menus
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| 04:02 | <alkisg> LTSP doesn't have any menus
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| 04:02 | <k4m3h4t3> yes
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| 04:02 | <alkisg> Always
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| 04:02 | Not just in your installation. In general, ltsp doesn't offer any menus in gnome or other desktop environments
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| 04:03 | <k4m3h4t3> usuaaly place in the menus, don't you? or in place application/other
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| 04:03 | <alkisg> It's a set of services, not some program that you run from a menu
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| 04:03 | <k4m3h4t3> so what should i do
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| 04:04 | <alkisg> Boot a thin client?
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| 04:05 | <k4m3h4t3> why if i try live cd i can find ltsp in the menus or icon. but if instal in my laptop can't find in the menus or icon
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| 04:06 | <alkisg> The live cd has a "start ltsp" menu
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| 04:06 | When you install it, ltsp always runs, you don't have to start it
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| 04:08 | <k4m3h4t3> mean i can't use the aplication?
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| 04:08 | <alkisg> I mean that ltsp already runs, and you can start a thin client with it
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| 04:09 | You don't have to "see" an application to use it
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| 04:10 | <k4m3h4t3> oh... mean ltsp has install in my laptop?
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| 04:11 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 04:12 | <k4m3h4t3> and then how do i use ltsp ltsp if the icon was not there ? like configuration ethernet
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| 04:12 | <alkisg> Those tasks are not related to ltsp, there's no "ltsp icon" for them
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| 04:13 | To configure the network, you either use the network manager applet, or edit /etc/network/interfaces
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| 04:17 | <k4m3h4t3> oh so. furthermore, if I reserve the 2 computers, one server edubuntu another windows. how configure? cause not icon in place
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| 04:17 | <alkisg> Configure what?
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| 04:18 | Really, LTSP doesn't have a configuration icon
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| 04:18 | You edit text files to configure the related services
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| 04:18 | <k4m3h4t3> so that the client computer can use ltsp
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| 04:18 | <alkisg> You enable "PXE" in the bios
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| 04:20 | <k4m3h4t3> then whether in its existing configuration server computer to do?...
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| 04:21 | <alkisg> I didn't understand that question, say it again with other words
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| 04:22 | <k4m3h4t3> You enable "PXE" in the bios <<< this in computer client. don't you?
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| 04:22 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 04:22 | That's to tell the client to boot from the network
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| 04:24 | <k4m3h4t3> and the computer server? must be configure?
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| 04:25 | <alkisg> Not its, BIOS, no
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| 04:25 | If you change the server IP, then you need to make some changes in the configuration files with gedit
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| 04:26 | But if you don't change the IP, it should work now
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| 04:26 | <k4m3h4t3> mean in computer server automaticly configure>
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| 04:28 | <alkisg> Yes, once, when you install it
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| 04:29 | <k4m3h4t3> oh.. i see .. i see..
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| 04:29 | looks like I need a tutorial further. Can anyone help me?
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| 04:30 | <alkisg> Better read the ltsp documentation
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| 04:30 | !docs
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| 04:30 | <ltsp> docs: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 05:08 | <k4m3h4t3> alkisg thanks.. i will donlot
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| 05:09 | alkisg i have any ask
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| 07:06 | <k4m3h4t3> wb alkish
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| 07:06 | alkisg
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| 07:06 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 07:07 | <k4m3h4t3> i stiil have any ask. hehehe
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| 07:21 | <Hyperbyte> !ask
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| 07:21 | <ltsp> ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 07:23 | <k4m3h4t3> if i instal edubuntu 12.04+ltsp in virtualbox. can work?
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 07:26 | <k4m3h4t3> how about in client. can work?
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| 07:27 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 07:27 | <Hyperbyte> Interesting... is there any noticable slowdown when running a thin client server inside a VM?
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| 07:27 | <alkisg> Depends on the virtualization technology, vbox is usually 10% slower wrt cpu
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| 07:28 | <k4m3h4t3> Hyperbyte : it's very slow?
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| 07:30 | <Bootless> Nearly every virtualization slows down the virtual machine
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| 07:30 | <Hyperbyte> Well I wouldn't use vbox, I'd use qemu-kvm
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| 07:30 | <sep> k4m3h4t3, 10% reduction is not "very slow" it's a bit slower then running native, but that's expected with virtualization
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| 07:30 | <Bootless> depends on how much machines you virtualize on one host
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| 07:31 | <Hyperbyte> Wait - I'm not talking about capacity, I'm talking about speed
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| 07:31 | <Bootless> me too?
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| 07:31 | <k4m3h4t3> i see i see. ok. thanks before. but i must go now. c u letter everybody. thanks
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| 07:32 | <Hyperbyte> No, I mean - when using thin clients which log into an LTSP server in a VM, will my interface be slower?
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| 07:32 | I mean noticably slower.
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| 07:32 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: kvm is usually faster than vbox, as long as the cpu is supported
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| 07:32 | <Hyperbyte> Talking about latency here...
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| 07:33 | alkisg, you mean if the CPU has virtualization built into chipset, right?
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| 07:33 | <Bootless> I think with one server and one client you don't notice a latency
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| 07:33 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 07:34 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, noticed that at the radio station... had a dual Xeon server which was a bit dated... didn't support kernel virtualization, but we though that much raw computing power would cut it anyways
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| 07:34 | Man did we come back from that. :/
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| 07:36 | I'm thinking of virtualizing everything here at work
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| 07:37 | <Hyperbyte> Right now we have about five servers, I'd like to reduce that to one. Will also make system upgrades a whole lot easier. I could just create a clone of the LTSP server, run my software updates, test them, see how they work etc... and when I'm satisfied switch the clone over to the real server
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| 07:37 | <Bootless> We use in our ltsp cluster 3 ESXi server and virtualize with them
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| 07:38 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 07:39 | <sep> Hyperbyte, debian+kvm+libvirt and virt-manager for the pointy clicity admins, very nice
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| 07:42 | <muppis> Isn't ESXi much like that? kvm/libvirt can be controlled via virsh as well. ;)
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| 07:47 | <Hyperbyte> sep, except that I'd do Fedora where you do Debian. :)
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| 07:48 | <sep> muppis, esxi is vmware, kvm + libvirt is just apt-get install kvm virt-manager ; done :)
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| 07:49 | in fedora world i assume you replace apt-get with yum... ? :)
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| 07:50 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: linux can be cloned to different hardware very easily, so /me doesn't bother with virtualization at all... :)
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| 07:51 | <muppis> sep, I know. I use kvm as daily basis. :)
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| 07:51 | <sep> muppis, what you use for disk image storage ?
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| 07:51 | ...(i think this is off topic) :P
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| 07:52 | <muppis> sep, varies, bu mostly lvm or iscsi.
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| 07:52 | <sep> so you have a iscsi san ?
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| 07:53 | just another nix box ? or a dedicated san ?
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| 07:53 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, it's a lot easier to choose 'clone machine' in a GUI and have your new test machine, than to go to the boss with a hardware request, clone the OS, add it in the server room, do your testing, then discard the machine...
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| 07:54 | <muppis> sep, drbd/pacemaker based san.
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: rsync is much easier than installing esxi etc :)
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| 07:54 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, trust me - once you go virtual you'll never go back. :P
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> Nah, that's good for windows only :P
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| 07:54 | <Hyperbyte> Not true
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| 07:55 | At the radio station we have lots of different servers, for different purposes
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| 07:55 | <Hyperbyte> We used to have 8 servers in our rack, six of which were Linux
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| 07:55 | There's now only 3 left, and one will be gone as soon as I get time to virtualize it
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| 07:57 | <alkisg> Whenever I need VMs, I run them inside a master linux server, not inside esxi or xen etc... but maybe I haven't had need for large scale installations yet (and I probably never will)
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| 07:57 | We do have esxi on some servers, but not ones that I maintain myself..
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| 08:00 | <sep> muppis, iow basically built your own ? :) nice
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| 08:02 | alkisg, i have about 40 linux machines on a linux kvm machine. the rackspace/cooling/power reduction is veeery nice :) not to mention the reduction in servers. network hardware and similar
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| 08:03 | * alkisg would try lxc for that, or VMs over a plain linux installation (not kvm) otherwise | |
| 08:03 | <alkisg> But anyways, I'm not using any installations with multiple servers, so I'm not entitled to talk :)
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| 08:05 | <sep> alkisg, well... i have windows hosts on the same as well :)
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| 08:06 | * alkisg doesn't doubt the benefit of VMs, but the benefit of esxi/xen etc vs a normal linux server under the VMs | |
| 08:07 | <sep> alkisg, lxc is like vservers? i used that beforce, but then i needed different kernel versions.. and hence kvm ..
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> Yeah I think lxc needs the same kernel, but you can still run any VM technology, vbox, kvm, vmware over a plain linux server instead of esxi/xen
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| 08:08 | <sep> alkisg, i use plain debian
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> Then we don't have any difference in opinions! :)
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| 08:10 | <sep> i probably just misunderstood you,.
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| 13:19 | <k4m3h4t3> hello
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| 13:19 | <mealstrom> hi
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| 13:30 | <k4m3h4t3> hello
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| 13:31 | <gvy> hi
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| 13:38 | <k4m3h4t3> hello
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| 13:38 | <knipwim> hi
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| 13:40 | <k4m3h4t3> what mean boot pxe and thin?
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| 13:41 | <knipwim> http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/PXE
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| 13:41 | thin means all user programs run on the server
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| 13:42 | <k4m3h4t3> mean we dont need client?
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| 13:44 | <knipwim> no, it means the program runs on the server, but it's output is shown on the client
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| 13:48 | <||cw> k4m3h4t3: it means the client doens't have to be powerful enough to run the applications, since they run on the server
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| 13:49 | k4m3h4t3: "thin" also refers to reduced hardware at the clients. no hard drive (pxe boot instead) and less ram needed
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| 13:53 | <k4m3h4t3> is it two different things?
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| 14:06 | <gvy> in general, yes
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| 14:06 | a thin client can be booted from its local hdd but otherwise showing remote apps running on a server
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| 14:07 | or a "fat" client can be diskless with networked boot/filesystem but running apps locally
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| 14:08 | <k4m3h4t3> i see isee
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| 14:09 | when we use HDD ltsp revoked or not?
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| 14:14 | <gvy> ltsp can help with both these things or any of them: remote boot ("diskless") and remote apps ("thin")
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| 14:21 | <k4m3h4t3> gvy : goog answer. its make more understand
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| 14:24 | <k4m3h4t3> *good
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| 14:25 | <gvy> YW :-)
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| 14:51 | <k4m3h4t3> gvy are you using ltsp?
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| 14:53 | <thebwt> is there a sane way to do ltsp with 2 monitors?
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| 14:53 | <gvy> k4m3h4t3, sorta... http://en.altlinux.org/LTSP
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| 14:54 | <k4m3h4t3> why not edubuntu?
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| 14:54 | <gvy> 'cause it would not even work on 64m clients when I looked at it
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| 14:55 | or due to the difference in fundamental approaches with sabdfl
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| 14:55 | <ogra_> you probably looked not friendly enough :)
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| 14:55 | * ogra_ knows alkisg runs his school just fine on 64M clients with edubuntu | |
| 14:55 | <gvy> ogra_, well I even reported it IIRC :) 5.10 beta wouldn't finish booting the client
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| 14:55 | good :-)
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| 14:55 | <ogra_> 5.10 ?!?
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| 14:56 | thats 7 years ago
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| 14:56 | <gvy> we fixed that for 16m clients back then and suggested a stripped-down kernel with swap-over-net if you might remember
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| 14:56 | or 6.10 even
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| 14:56 | doesn't make a huge difference by now
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| 14:56 | <ogra_> six still :)
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| 14:56 | well, you dont think the code evolved over 6 years ?
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| 14:57 | i think 80% pf the python code was ripped out over these years
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| 14:57 | *of
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| 14:57 | <k4m3h4t3> oh
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| 14:58 | <ogra_> and replaced by something less ressource hungry
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| 15:01 | <mnevans> Hello LTSP world. I'm having a problem booting clients: Ubuntu 12.04 server and amd64 clients.
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| 15:02 | The problem seems to be that nbd-server will not start: dmesg indicates a segmentation fault.
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| 15:02 | While I figure out what's wrong there, can you tell me how to go back to isc-dhcp-server running the show?
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| 15:02 | Thanks in advance.
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| 15:03 | Or if anyone's seen this, best way to fix what appears to be a broken nbd-server.
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| 15:05 | <gvy> ogra_, I hope that at least some initial curves have been ironed out :)
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| 15:05 | <ogra_> lost did
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| 15:05 | <thebwt> mnevans: back to ics-dhcp? were you doing proxyDHCP?
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| 15:05 | <ogra_> *lots
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| 15:07 | <thebwt> mnevans: if you aren't using a standard dhcp setup, you need to manually specify the nbd-server's adress in pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 15:08 | <knipwim> ogra_: were you the one with the pandaboards?
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| 15:08 | or was that someone else in #ltsp
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| 15:08 | <mnevans> @thebwt: I think I am using a standard dhcp setup: server has two NICs; LAN is 192.168.0.1 and clients are 192.168.0.{range}.
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| 15:08 | <thebwt> mnevans: doh but re-reading your query, "sudo service nbd-server start" is what segfaults
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| 15:09 | <ogra_> knipwim, i do have a bunch of pandas, but others do too
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| 15:10 | <mnevans> @thebwt, yes: nbd-server start is what segfaults. I have tried ltsp-update-kernels and ltsp-update-image. No errors. I was wondering if anyone else has seen this;
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| 15:10 | or maybe I should look into nbd-server problems in another forum.
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| 15:11 | <knipwim> ogra_: was wondering specifically about the pxe boot
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| 15:11 | but apparently there's a u-boot patch for that
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| 15:13 | <ogra_> knipwim, all ubuntu u-boot versions default to PXE if they dont find a kernel locally
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| 15:17 | <mnevans> ... I can't find anything on google about nbd-server and a segmentation fault problem since 2007...
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| 15:38 | <mnevans> Anyone know where I can get help on nbd-server on Ubuntu? I tried reinstalling it and restarting it, but there's no indication it actually did, in dmesg.
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> mnevans: put the result of this command to pastebin: grep -r '' /etc/nbd-server
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| 15:44 | gvy: what are the current kernel + ram requirements for ltsp in altlinux?
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| 15:44 | <mnevans> Ah Alkisg, my hero.
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| 15:45 | @alkisg: http://pastebin.com/w1QxvcdA
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> 12.04 can still boot with 64mb ram clients if one removes plymouth from the initramfs, but kernel + X take up all the RAM, I don't know how we could lower that part
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| 15:46 | <ogra_> alkisg, MODULES=dep ;)
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> ogra_: dep == the server hardware though, not the clients... right?
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| 15:47 | mnevans: sudo service nbd-server restart
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| 15:47 | sudo netstat -nap|grep 10809
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| 15:47 | <ogra_> alkisg, well, then either list or just use /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> ogra_: and any hints for lower X usage? E.g. xvesa needs 10% of the ram that xorg needs... :-/
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| 15:47 | <ogra_> point is, if you drop the modules you will free a lot of RAM the initrd would usually eat
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> ogra_: but the initramfs memory is freed after boot, right?
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| 15:48 | <ogra_> alkisg, ever tried xfbdev on x86 ?
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| 15:48 | yes, its freed up but will definitely leave you more room for switching over to the nbd root
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> I mean, I tried with huge initramfs or with small initramfs, and at the point of init=/bin/bash, both needed the same amount of ram
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| 15:48 | <gvy> alkisg, 16m :)
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> gvy: what kernel?
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| 15:49 | <mnevans> @alkisg: here is output after sudo service nbd-server-restart from dmesg: http://pastebin.com/PwsWwKhC
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| 15:49 | <ogra_> 16M with a distro kernel ?
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| 15:49 | <gvy> 2.6.27 in release, 2.6.32 in beta (which isn't *that* much polished)
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| 15:49 | <ogra_> alt must have bad HW support or super clever kernel maintainers :)
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| 15:49 | <gvy> ogra_, ALT ships several kernels
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| 15:49 | the latter :]
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| 15:50 | (half a joke as you guessed)
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| 15:50 | <ogra_> well, ubuntu ships several kernels too
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> gvy, and xorg or xvesa?
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| 15:50 | <gvy> the trick is considering the lines
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| 15:50 | alkisg, usually native xorg drivers
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> mnevans: looks like a clear nbd-server problem, I'd report that to launchpad, or bugs.debian.net
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| 15:50 | <gvy> DISCLAIMER: not trolling but rather sync() :-)
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| 15:51 | <ogra_> sad, i thought we were trolling
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| 15:51 | :P
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| 15:51 | <gvy> just in case, beta images here: ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/mike/iso/terminal/
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| 15:51 | ogring then :-]
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| 15:51 | <ogra_> haha
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| 15:51 | <mnevans> @alkisg: seems so, but I am not sure. For one thing, an i386 client with image built on May 22 does reboot successfully. Why would nbd-server work for that?
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> mnevans: sudo netstat -nap | grep 10809
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| 15:52 | <mnevans> @alkisg: that returns: tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:10809 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 43107/nbd-server
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> gvy: how do 16mb ram clients cope with X pixmap caching? E.g. firefox here can take up to 500mb of local ram when one visits a badly designed site (not localapp, running on server)
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| 15:53 | mnevans: that's strange, so, segfaulting AND running after the segfault?
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| 15:53 | mnevans: are you sure that dmesg line was produced because of the restart command?
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| 15:53 | Or was it produced when a client tried to connect?
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| 15:54 | <mnevans> Well, something is letting the i386 client start. And I am writing you from an amd64 client that hasn't been rebooted since this problem surfaced yesterday.
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> mnevans: well, run: dmesg | tail; sudo service nbd-server restart; dmesg | tail
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| 15:55 | ...and see if there's a new line there just after the restart
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> If it's an old line, then it's not related to restarting, but to client connections
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| 15:56 | <gvy> alkisg, hence the swap-over-net patches mentioned again
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> Which then makes sense, since it's a forked process, not the main nbd-server process
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| 15:56 | gvy: are those different than the upstream nbd swap support in ltsp?
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| 15:56 | <gvy> alkisg, you get deadlocks with current vanilla kernels
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> gvy: the problem with swap over the network is that it's basically unusable, when ram is not enough
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| 15:57 | <gvy> there are common/similar and different aspects to nbd/nfs swap but overall, the patches aren't still in mainline
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| 15:57 | <mnevans> I *think* isc-dhcp-server is running: see http://pastebin.com/aR5DjBDE
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> We're not getting crashes, but the clients then are unusably slow
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| 15:57 | <gvy> zijlstra works on that and suse ships them
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> mnevans: isc-dhcp is completely unrelated to the nbd-server chat, so no need to mention it at all
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| 15:58 | <gvy> alkisg, well I used to work on 32m client for a few days and on a 64m client for many months (or was that a couple of years?..)
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> gvy: gotcha, that's what I wanted to hear. And it was usable, without real problems?
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| 15:58 | <gvy> sorta eatin' our own dogfood :-)
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> gvy: because in my experience (I tried working on a client with 64 ram), it wasn't for real work
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| 15:58 | <gvy> yes, after having solved the deadlock one
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> No hangs at all. Just really slow
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> E.g. when firefox hit a page with a jpeg image, whose *uncompressed* size was big enough to use nbd swap (e.g. 50 mb), the client might need more than 1 minute to render it
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| 15:59 | <mnevans> @alkisg: Sorry. Here is output of dmesg | tail; sudo service nbd-server restart; dmesg | tail: http://pastebin.com/wW2eGiBE
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| 15:59 | <gvy> alkisg, as for the best results that were actually shipped to Russian schools, you can test ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/4.0/Terminal/current/iso/altlinux-4.0.0-terminal-i586-en-cd.iso
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| 16:00 | of course no miracles inside, won't help a browser trying to hit 800m
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> mnevans: so, no entry in dmesg for nbd-server restart
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| 16:00 | <gvy> I'll probably wait aside, parallel discussion is brain weary
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> gvy: thank you for your feedback :)
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| 16:01 | <mnevans> @alkisg: well, no: it is the same message about a segmentation fault I pasted earlier.
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> mnevans: ok, now try to boot a client and see if it produces the segfault line then
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| 16:01 | <gvy> alkisg, hey thank *you* :-)
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| 16:03 | <mnevans> alkisg: No, it doesn't; but gives this: init: isc-dhcp-server main process (41952) killed by TERM signal
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> mnevans: isc-dhcp is completely unrelated to nbd-server
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| 16:06 | Let's take the problems one at a time
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| 16:06 | So, when does nbd-server segfault?
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| 16:07 | <mnevans> alkisg: nbd-server segfaults when I try to start it: sudo service nbd-server restart gives two segfault errors:
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| 16:08 | <mnevans> alkisg: before we get too deep, maybe I should give the server a reboot?
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| 16:09 | <alkisg> mnevans: the dmesg ; restart; dmesg line above suggested that it doesn't give errors when you restart it
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| 16:10 | And that the errors in dmesg were older ones
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| 16:10 | http://pastebin.com/wW2eGiBE
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> line 11: [612491.400424] init: isc-dhcp-server main process (41952) killed by TERM signal
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| 16:10 | line 25: [612491.400424] init: isc-dhcp-server main process (41952) killed by TERM signal
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| 16:10 | So there was no new dmesg line after the restart
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| 16:10 | No segfault in the pastebin you sent
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| 16:10 | <mnevans> What about: [612047.075241] nbd-server[40319]: segfault at 50 ip 0000000000402ac9 sp 00007fff841e8cd0 error 4 in nbd-server[400000+a000]
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> See the time
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| 16:11 | 612047 < 612491 < the nbd restart time
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| 16:11 | It's an old dmesg entry, not produced by the restart you just tried
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| 16:12 | Try it again; restart it 10 times; it won't produce any new segfaults in dmesg
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| 16:12 | <mnevans> alkisg: OK... and I see the following using ps: nbd 47307 0.0 0.0 22316 920 ? Ss 12:05 0:00 /bin/nbd-server
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| 16:12 | Maybe it is running?
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> mnevans: yes, it is running, and we haven't yet found out when it segfaults
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| 16:13 | You can't reproduce it currently; try things until you can
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| 16:13 | <mnevans> alkisg: like rebooting a client? What other things do you think might cause nbd-server to segfault?
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> rebooting clients might, sure
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| 16:14 | <mnevans> Would this explain why I still have i386 client booting, and one amd64 client booted (but will likely fail when I try to reboot it)?
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| 16:14 | OK, let's see what we can do...
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| 16:15 | alkisg: if nbd-server is running, why wouldn't clients boot?
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> Wrong dhcp, tftp, nbd, whatever settings, there are thousands of reasons why clients won't boot
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| 16:16 | You need troubleshooting, to report the messages on the clients, etc etc
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| 16:16 | <mnevans> (I realize that's a huge question but there's no indication from screen output on the clients what's wrong. Last line is: "trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/default ok"
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> It's also possible that nbd-server might crash when the clients connect to it
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| 16:16 | !quiet-splash
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| 16:16 | <ltsp> quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash .
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| 16:18 | <mnevans> alkisg: yes, I get three more lines:
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| 16:19 | loading initrd.gz...
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| 16:19 | loading vmlinuz...
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| 16:19 | loading, please wait...
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| 16:19 | (I am typing this from memory and probably got these out of order...)
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| 16:21 | alkisg: ps auxw | grep nbd-server gives this output: http://pastebin.com/EeiwnVsY
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| 16:21 | There seems to be one line per restart of the thin client.
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> That's normal
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| 16:22 | <mnevans> ... and dmesg gives the segmentation fault.
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| 16:24 | <mnevans> alkisg: So the behavior seems to be: (1) starting an amd64 client causes nbd-server to segfault. (2) Existing amd64 client is unaffected. (3) i386 client can be restarted without problem. (4) amd64 client restart loads vmlinuz and initrd but then hangs.
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| 16:31 | alkisg: correction to (1) above: starting an amd64 client doesn't necessarily cause nbd-server to segfault. But it hangs at loading, please wait...
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Did you manage to segfault nbd-server recently?
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| 16:36 | <mnevans> alkisg: well, at [614192.436183] > [610781.442706] . (About 13 mins and at least two client reboots ago).
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> Did you take note what caused the segfault?
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| 16:36 | E.g. booting an amd64 client?
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| 16:37 | If you properly removed quiet splash, and the amd64 client hangs at loading kernel, then it doesn't even try to connect to the nbd server. At all.
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| 16:37 | <mnevans> I'd sure like to have, but it's unclear. I had thought it was booting the amd64 client; but then I tried to replicate, and although the client did not boot, nbd-server did not segfault.
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| 16:39 | alkisg: more /opt/ltsp/amd64/boot/pxelinux.cfg/default : http://pastebin.com/53tAeT6x
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| 16:40 | Let me try another client reboot now.
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| 16:41 | alkisg: can I safely delete "plymouth:force-splash: as well?
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> mnevans: yes, do so
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| 16:42 | mnevans: also vt handoff
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| 16:43 | <mnevans> ... another thin client reboot - no more information. Let me try those additional boot option changes and retry...
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| 16:48 | <mnevans> alkisg: OK, another thin client reboot with plymouth:force-splash and vt handoff=7 deleted. A lot more messaging but it flew by too quickly to read. Is it logged somewhere (or can I turn that on?)
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| 16:48 | (and no segfault).
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> mnevans: boot an amd64 client and see where it stops
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| 16:49 | <||cw> dmesg should show it all again, right?
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| 16:49 | <mnevans> Stops at...[going over to look...]
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> Usually dmesg can't be accessed when the client hangs...
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| 16:50 | <||cw> ah true
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| 16:50 | <mnevans> alkisg and ||cw: It stops at plymouthd: ... assertion failed...
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| 16:50 | <||cw> only other way I know of is a serial console with a scrollback buffer or log
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> mnevans: that's very late in the boot process, probably at the point where X should start
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| 16:51 | mnevans: try this in pxelinux.cfg/default: ltsp.break=50-fstab break=50-fstab
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| 16:51 | (I don't remember which of those 2 options are valid for 12.04, but one of them should work and give you a shell)
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| 16:52 | <mnevans> alkisg: Yes. Try that on another line or in the append... statement? (sorry if this is a stupid question)
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| 16:54 | <alkisg> mnevans: put it in the same line where quiet splash were
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| 16:55 | <mnevans> alkisg: roger that.
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| 16:55 | <gvy> *bang*bang*bang*
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| 16:55 | <thebwt> is there a sane way to do ltsp with 2 monitors? We keep getting monitors flipping.
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| 16:56 | <gvy> thebwt, maybe a fixed xorg.conf?..
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| 16:57 | <alkisg> XRANDR* commands can handle 2 monitors
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| 17:03 | <mnevans> alkisg: OK, I added those to the append in default, and things scroll by a little more slowly; but I don't know what that did otherwise. Still no segfault.
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| 17:04 | And the client hung at the same point: plymouthd ... assertion failed...
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> mnevans: it appears that break=50-fstab didn't work. Try putting SCREEN_07=shell in lts.conf, so that X doesn't start
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| 17:06 | [Default]
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| 17:06 | SCREEN_07=shell
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| 17:06 | <mnevans> alkisg: I am struck by your comment: "that's very late in the boot process, probably at the point where X should start." Could a recent xorg upgade or xorg.conf be the problem?
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| 17:07 | ...I think you read my mind (what little there is). Let me try that.
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| 17:11 | alkisg: I think some progress. adding that line to lts.conf (for the stanza of that client) gives me a console prompt.
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> mnevans: lspci -nn -k | grep -A2 VGA
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| 17:14 | <mnevans> alkisg: video card is: Radeon HD6310 (AMD "Wrestler") and the radeon driver is being used.
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| 17:14 | I wonder if I need to reinstall the fglrx driver into the chroot?
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| 17:16 | per one of our past exchanges: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AMDE-350
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| 17:18 | ...Or else remove the /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/X11/xorg.conf that points to the fglrx driver, as it appears I have video under the free radeon driver?
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| 17:37 | <mnevans> alkisg: OK, I tried just changing /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/X11/xorg.conf to point to the radeon driver, but that doesn't seem to work.
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| 17:43 | <mnevans> alkisg: I tried: ltsp-update-kernels, ltsp-update-image, reboot client: this sequence seems to have given me a segfault when I rebooted the client.
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| 17:46 | But then nbd-server restarted, and when I login (with SCREEN_07=shell) and then startx, I have what appears to be a failsafe xterm. I can pop up xclock but little else. And of course I am logged into the client rather than the server.
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| 17:48 | <alkisg> startx there isn't LTSP, if you get X working then remove SCREEN_02=shell
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| 17:52 | <mnevans> alkisg: thank you. When I do that, I am back to hanging at the "plymouthd ... assertion failed..." line.
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> It sounds like bad lts.conf settings (wrong xorg.conf), pointing to bad driver etc
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| 17:53 | <mnevans> alkisg: a real basic question. When I do ltsp-update-kernels and then ltsp-update-image, I should be updating the chroot to the latest kernel on the server. Correct?
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> When you run starts, the xorg.conf generated by ltsp isn't used
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| 17:53 | No
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| 17:53 | You need to chroot + update inside the chroot
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| 17:54 | (08:53:38 μμ) alkisg: When you run starts, ==> startx
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| 17:55 | <mnevans> Well, maybe this is the problem. In lts. conf I point to XSERVER=fglrx. I;'ll try changing that to radeon and see what happens.
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> Just omit it completely
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| 17:56 | <gvy> mnevans, these two require very different kernel modules (and might require different initrd images if the modules get there)
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| 17:56 | <mnevans> But I am confused then. Because once I do ltsp-choot there is no ltsp-update-image or ltsp-update-kernels.
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| 17:57 | alkisg: omit what completely?
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| 17:57 | <||cw> mnevans: you have to exit the choot once you are done modding it
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> XSERVER
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| 17:57 | sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/amd
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| 17:57 | apt-get update
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| 17:57 | apt-get dist-upgrade
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| 17:57 | exit
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| 17:57 | ltsp-update-kernels, image etc
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| 17:57 | I.e. you need to run apt-get update inside the chroot, to get the newer kernels etc
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| 17:58 | * alkisg switches away from irc to get a bit of work done... :) | |
| 17:58 | <mnevans> alkisg, ||cw, gvy: thank you. First I am going to comment out the XSERVER=radeon line and reboot the client.
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| 17:58 | alkisg: thank you, I hope to also do so... :) Thanks for your help.
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> yw
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| 18:09 | <mnevans> alkisg: your timing is good. Commenting out the XSERVER= line in lts.conf solved the problem. So I think I can stop using fglrx and stick with radeon.
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| 18:11 | p.s. I never knew that to update the chroot I had to do apt-get update, upgrade within the chroot, then exit and run ltsp-update-kernels, image, etc.
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| 18:17 | So it is still running a version of the system from the original 12.04 fresh install last april, not with any updates from now til then.
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| 18:29 | <ltspuser_36> Hi, could anyone tell me if I can install ltsp on my home and use an external (free) linux server?
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