IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 August 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:41 | <gnunux> hi
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| 04:33 | <intelliant> Hi!
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| 04:33 | Facing some wierd behaviour in authenticating against ldap
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| 04:42 | <Appiah> :)
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| 04:48 | <intelliant> Appiah: good to fined you here
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| 04:48 | *find
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| 04:49 | Appiah: it is allowing one user to login and none others while authenticating against ldap
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| 04:50 | it is the same config I was speaking about a few days back
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| 04:50 | I got around working with it today only
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| 04:52 | <intelliant> this is what authlog has to say - http://pastebin.com/MJjWUSy2
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| 04:53 | something wrong with dbus
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| 04:53 | i confess I am unble to understand a word in there
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| 05:06 | <intelliant> cyberorg: there?
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| 05:23 | <intelliant> okay, found something here - https://answers.launchpad.net/ltsp/+question/115286
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| 05:25 | <alkisg> I don't think the person in that launchpad question is using LDAP...
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| 05:25 | He's just having ssh keys problems
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| 05:26 | (or maybe compiz problems)
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| 05:35 | <Appiah> intelliant: well it auths
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| 05:35 | so not a prob there
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| 05:35 | <intelliant> alkisg: you may be right. just verifying the scenario at my end as coincidentally the one who cud log in is on a 64-bit machine
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| 05:36 | but anyways there is only a single i386.img to boot from
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| 05:36 | Appiah: yes auth is working fine
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| 05:36 | looks something after that
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| 05:37 | the only thin-client which logged in and loaded the desktop successfully is different from all the others
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| 05:37 | just doing another round of tests
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| 05:37 | brb with the results
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| 05:45 | <intelliant> tried with other thin-clients also
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| 05:45 | only a particular user is being allowed to login and none other from any TC
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| 05:49 | so it can't be a driver issue as well
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| 05:50 | <cyberorg> intelliant, hi :)
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| 06:03 | <intelliant> cyberorg: kinda lost - http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1375510.html
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| 06:04 | <cyberorg> great, good luck :)
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| 06:06 | try re/moving compiz from the server
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| 06:06 | also use LTSP_DEBUG_TERMINAL to debug
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| 06:10 | <intelliant> but this issue does not look like a driver issue and nor a compiz issue
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| 06:10 | then how would it allow one user and none other?
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> !compiz
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| 06:10 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 06:12 | <cyberorg> intelliant, first step is to be absolutely sure that is not the issue so move/disable/remove it
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| 06:13 | <alkisg1> to disable compiz, sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 06:13 | Ah, I thought the bot was down, but it was me, I got disconnected :)
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| 06:19 | <intelliant> executed this - " sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity "
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| 06:24 | it worked :)
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> A compiz problem, then :)
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| 06:24 | <intelliant> cyberorg: alkisg: Appiah: thanks
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| 06:25 | yes confirmed
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| 06:26 | <cyberorg> compiz wrapper script should have taken care of starting another WM instead of session crashing
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| 06:30 | <Appiah> so you disabled compiz and it started working?
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| 06:32 | <intelliant> Appiah: yes
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| 06:33 | so 2 stage problems solved - 1. ldap connectivity issue 2. problem caused due to compiz
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| 06:33 | but yet i don't know why it was allowing only one user(the same one) which was not necessarily the first one to login
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| 06:35 | <alkisg> That user had "None" selected in the appearance settings
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| 06:39 | <cyberorg> intelliant, reply to the forum thread/bug reports so others searching find the solution
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| 06:40 | <intelliant> doing so
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| 06:40 | :)
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| 06:48 | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9729614#post9729614
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| 07:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> Has anybody had problems with 10.04 LTSP clients logging themselves out back to LDM?
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| 08:00 | I am having problems where clients log themselves out to LDM, then after logging back in, localapps do not work, and I cannot open a shell on another terminal.
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| 08:00 | stranger still, after a client reboot, I am still having the same problem.
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| 08:00 | any suggestions would be appreciated.
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| 08:05 | <Appiah> when do they log out to ldm?
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| 08:05 | checked /var/log/messages ?
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| 08:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> /var/log/messages on the server or client?
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| 08:07 | Appiah: hmm. here's the /var/log/messages http://pastebin.com/ULD46Wcx
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| 08:08 | though none of that appears to be relevant. KVMBR0 is the bridge that I am using for access to this server though...
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| 08:09 | <Appiah> thats the server log right?
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| 08:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> correct
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| 08:09 | I cannot access the client log because I cannot open a shell or localapps
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| 08:09 | <Appiah> ssh then?
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| 08:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> yeah, I just installed openssh on the chroot
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| 08:10 | lemme try that
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| 08:12 | hmm. ssh is not working either. It just stops responding after I enter a password for root
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| 08:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> I have rebooted the client multiple times now. At first I thought it was a RAM issue on the client, but the longer this goes on, I am starting to think it's the server.
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| 08:18 | hmm
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| 08:18 | something interesting from daemon.log http://pastebin.com/spam.php?i=iVNhzfv9]
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| 08:18 | err http://pastebin.com/spam.php?i=iVNhzfv9
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| 08:21 | <Blinny> All my PS/2 mice aren't working this morning. FUN.
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| 08:25 | <_UsUrPeR_> :/
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| 08:26 | another strange thing: if I boot a second client, it works fine. It can open a shell on the second terminal, and can run localapps.
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| 08:27 | and now the first client works as well after restarting nbd-server
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| 08:34 | <pmatulis> why do i get a high pitch sound when booting my laptops (tried 2) with my lucid ltsp server? :)
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| 08:34 | <_UsUrPeR_> pmatulis: is it coming from the speakers?
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| 08:36 | <pmatulis> _UsUrPeR_: it appears to be mic/speaker feedback
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| 08:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> do the following: open a terminal on your laptop "client". Run "ltsp-localapps xterm". In there, type "alsamixer". I'd bet you there is a volume gain set super high.
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| 08:38 | <pmatulis> _UsUrPeR_: thing is, it's never happened before (jaunty, karmic), now, with this (not very much used) lucid rig i have 2 laptops seeing this
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| 08:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm
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| 08:39 | <pmatulis> _UsUrPeR_: also, i get this at the login screen, no login yet
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| 08:40 | <intelliant> for ltsp-cluster what are the steps one needs to do whenever adding a new node ?
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| 08:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> intelliant: node = appserve? Like adding another server to the cluster?
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| 08:41 | pmatulis: does the sound remain after login?
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| 08:42 | intelliant: I'm checking some notes I have from 9.10, but it looks like you need to add a line to /etc/ltsp/lbsconfig.xml
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| 08:43 | <intelliant> yes
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| 08:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> intelliant: in there, below the nodes listed, add the next node. Also, increment the "max threads" by 1
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| 08:43 | <pmatulis> _UsUrPeR_: i didn't try
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| 08:43 | <intelliant> you mean on root server
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| 08:43 | ?
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| 08:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> intelliant: correct. on the root server.
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| 08:44 | pmatulis: give that a shot. see if it's just a volume change
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| 08:45 | <pmatulis> _UsUrPeR_: ok, need to find an isolated room, will report back
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| 08:45 | <_UsUrPeR_> k
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| 08:46 | <intelliant> _UsUrPeR_: and then do I need to restart anything?
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| 08:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> intelliant: I don't recall having to restart anything... in /etc/init.d/ is there anything for lbserver or ltsp-lbserver?
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| 08:47 | if there is, you will probably need to restart those processes
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| 08:47 | it may be ltsp-cluster-lbserver
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| 08:56 | <intelliant> reloaded the service
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| 09:08 | <intelliant> it seemed to have worked
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| 09:08 | stuck with some other issues before I can confirm this 100%
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| 09:29 | <dgroos> ping alkisg
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| 09:56 | -brown.freenode.net- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots -- please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | |
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| 11:05 | <intelliant> Yes the node addition method worked
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| 11:05 | bfn
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| 11:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok
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| 11:17 | I have come up with another crash, but this time I am able to check the log files on my client
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| 11:17 | in syslog, it's got the following errors
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| 11:17 | nbd9: unknown partition table
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| 11:17 | nbd9: NBD_DISCONNECT
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| 11:17 | nbd9: receive control failed (result -32)
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| 11:18 | nbd9: queue cleared
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| 11:24 | <migue> hi
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| 11:25 | i have a question about ltsp+pcmcia nic
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| 11:26 | could be ltsp floppy boot on a laptop with a pcmcia card?
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| 11:35 | <atomic007za> hi
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| 11:36 | I just purchased a Intel nic and have disable flow control with the example given on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl#Disabling flow control on the switch
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| 11:36 | and when I boot my clients they are still slow
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| 11:36 | any ideas?
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> measure the bandwidth with netperf or iperf
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| 11:44 | <migue> naybody know about ltsp and pcmcia card?
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| 11:44 | *anybody
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| 11:48 | <johnny> migue, what specs does such a laptop have?
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| 11:49 | is it even powerful enough to be an ltsp client?
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| 11:50 | why would you want to involve a floppy?
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| 11:50 | you can use gpxe from a floppy if your network card doesn't have pxe
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| 11:50 | but for a laptop not to have built in pxe, it must be pretty old
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| 11:55 | <atomic007za> Hi Alkisg, I have done that not sure if I am doing anything wrong but here is the output
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| 11:55 | http://pastebin.com/rzUw9ZvD
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| 11:55 | does not look like examples
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| 11:56 | <alkisg> what command line do you use? which parameters?
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| 11:56 | You're supposed to install it to the chroot, update the image, and then run `netperf server <more parameters>` from the client SCREEN_01...
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| 11:56 | <atomic007za> netperf
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| 11:57 | <alkisg> Or iperf, whichever you like...
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| 11:57 | <atomic007za> there is an example thethas a result if that is typed
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| 11:57 | <alkisg> I wrote an example at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Trunking
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| 12:01 | <atomic007za> thx, I get this http://pastebin.com/ParRq6zG
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| 12:02 | wait
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| 12:03 | <atomic007za> yes same relsult
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| 12:04 | <cellofellow> I think I've done something wrong. I've attempted to set up an LTSP fat-client system from these instructions https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients.
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| 12:04 | <atomic007za> and my ethtool look like this http://pastebin.com/ausaYXZ6
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| 12:05 | <cellofellow> When I first went to boot it said there was no vmlinuz or initrd.img, which there wasn't in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
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| 12:05 | <alkisg> atomic007za: are you running this on a *****local***** client terminal? SCREEN_01=shell in lts.conf?
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| 12:05 | <cellofellow> so I copied mine from /boot, and now it boots the kernel but can't mount the root filesystem, I get dropped to the initramfs BusyBox shell.
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> cellofellow: no copying from /boot won't work
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| 12:06 | <cellofellow> alkisg: figured. Where do I get/how do I make the kernel image?
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| 12:07 | <alkisg> cellofellow: they're automatically built at the end ltsp-build-client, which calls ltsp-update-kernels
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| 12:07 | <atomic007za> I am logged into the server via Putty, Must I ty the thin clients?
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| 12:07 | *try
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| 12:07 | <alkisg> cellofellow: if, for some reason, your ltsp-build-client failed, then there's no point to try the kernels, you'd need to rebuild a new chroot
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| 12:07 | <cellofellow> alkisg: I've run both but neither one puts anything in /opt/ltsp/i386/boot
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| 12:07 | oh
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| 12:08 | <alkisg> cellofellow: let's check. ls -lha /opt/ltsp/i386/boot
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| 12:08 | What do you have there?
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| 12:08 | <atomic007za> alkisg: I am logged into the server via Putty, Must I try the thin clients?
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| 12:08 | <alkisg> atomic007za: yes, you want to measure the client <=> server communication, so running something from the server will just measure server <=> server communication
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| 12:08 | <cellofellow> $ ls -lha /opt/ltsp/i386/boot
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| 12:08 | total 188K
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| 12:08 | drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4.0K 2010-08-16 23:44 .
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| 12:08 | drwxr-xr-x 20 root root 4.0K 2010-08-16 19:51 ..
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| 12:08 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 157K 2010-03-23 03:37 memtest86+.bin
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| 12:08 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 15K 2010-08-16 23:44 pxelinux.0
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| 12:09 | drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K 2010-08-16 23:44 pxelinux.cfg
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| 12:09 | oops, flood
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| 12:09 | <alkisg> !pastebot
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| 12:09 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 12:09 | <atomic007za> ic will do it now
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| 12:09 | <cellofellow> anyway, as you can see it's just memtest and pxelinux
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| 12:09 | so, do I need to rebuild my chroot from scratch? Or can I fix this damaged one?
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| 12:09 | <alkisg> cellofellow: you don't have any kernels installed at the chroot. I'm guessing ltsp-build-client didn't finish properly. I'd try it from the start if I were you, and enable "unlimited scrollback" in the terminal to see if something goes wrong
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| 12:10 | cellofellow: you can of course try to install a kernel to the chroot, but I'm not sure if that's the only thing missing...
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| 12:10 | <cellofellow> ok
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| 12:11 | * cellofellow is glad he used apt-cacher-ng, otherwise it'd take all day to build this thing *again* | |
| 12:13 | <cellofellow> by default, how is the root directory mounted? Is it NFS? NBD?
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| 12:16 | <alkisg> cellofellow: if you used that wiki page, you'd have MOUNT_PACKAGE_DIR="/var/cache/apt/archives", which saves everything with no need for apt-cacher
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| 12:16 | <cellofellow> oh
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| 12:16 | I read the comment describing that wrong.
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| 12:17 | # This uses the server apt cache to speed up downloading.
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| 12:17 | # You can't use apt on the server while building the chroot, though.
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| 12:17 | what's that second line supposed to mean, then?
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> English isn't my native language, so feel free to change that page to make it easier to read :)
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| 12:17 | <cellofellow> heh, don't think I can fix that sentence unless I know what it means.
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> It means that while the chroot is using that dir, you can't apt-get install stuff on the server
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| 12:18 | <cellofellow> oh, so it locks the servers dpkg?
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 12:20 | <atomic007za> alkisg: I am running it from a thin client and get this: http://pastebin.com/KzcirwJs
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| 12:21 | looks the same
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> atomic007za: you're not running it from a **************************local********************* terminal on the client
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| 12:21 | <atomic007za> but it is the "same PC"
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> !localxterm
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| 12:21 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> That's one way to get a local terminal. Another one, which gives you a root shell, is to put the following in lts.conf:
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| 12:21 | [Default]
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| 12:22 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 12:22 | <atomic007za> ic, wow so much to learn
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 12:22 | <cellofellow> alkisg: well, thanks for that one, but I'm already using apt-cacher-ng for now.
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> Currently you're just measuring your server's CPU speed...
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| 12:23 | cellofellow: sure, i'm just saying that if you indeed followed that page, then apt-cacher won't be used at all.
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| 12:23 | <cellofellow> alkisg: I didn't quite understand that comment so I commented the line. Silly me.
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> np
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| 12:23 | <cellofellow> I followed it sorta. :P
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| 12:24 | apt-cacher-ng would definitely be a boon on a network with any more than a half-dozen Ubuntu servers/workstations.
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> On ltsp labs it doesn't matter as it's only a single pc
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| 12:25 | <cellofellow> I know that.
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> I used to use squid for apt caching before using fat clients...
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| 12:26 | <cellofellow> squid is more general purpose, yeah.
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| 12:26 | If I had a really big network I'd probably run apt-mirror or similar such thing for a full mirror.
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| 12:35 | <cellofellow> it is nice that gnome-terminal has unlimited scrollback now, isn't it?
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| 12:39 | can I tell it to install a gui-less system when it builds the chroot, and I'll just add fluxbox later?
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| 12:39 | better yet, can I tell it to install fluxbox?
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> Fluxbox? does that work ok with ubuntu/ltsp?
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| 12:43 | <cellofellow> works with ubuntu, and I'm making a fat client, not a thin client.
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| 12:43 | but a very skinny fat client
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| 12:43 | <atomic007za> alkisg: sorry balting a bit here, I have logged in as local user but cant find netperf
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| 12:44 | <cellofellow> lubuntu-desktop would be nice but I tried that in FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOPS and it didn't work
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| 12:44 | <atomic007za> * log into local terminal on thin client
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| 12:44 | <alkisg> cellofellow: ok, I understand you're making a fat client, but it's still ltsp under the hood. E.g. the fluxbox display manager may fight with ldm (it should work fine but never tested)
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| 12:44 | <atomic007za> * logged into local terminal on thin client, but cant find netperf
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| 12:44 | <cellofellow> alkisg: do I have to use ldm?
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| 12:45 | <alkisg> cellofellow: how are you planning to authenticate the clients?
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| 12:45 | <cellofellow> hadn't really thought about it
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| 12:45 | <alkisg> atomic007za: (07:56:46 μμ) alkisg: You're supposed to install it to the chroot, update the image, and then run `netperf server <more parameters>` from the client SCREEN_02...
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| 12:46 | cellofellow: and, why wouldn't you want ldm to automatically do that for you?
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| 12:46 | <cellofellow> ok...
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| 12:46 | I just don't want to wait 2 hours to download ubuntu-desktop.
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| 12:46 | slow inet connection here
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| 12:48 | <alkisg> Why didn't lubuntu-desktop work? Any error messages?
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| 12:48 | <cellofellow> I don't remember what they were. I can try again.
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| 12:48 | <alkisg> All of the -desktop environments should work for fat clients, if they don't file appropriate bug reports
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| 12:48 | (not that they're tested; but we're insterested on fixing any problems)
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| 12:49 | <cellofellow> ok, I'm trying lubuntu-desktop again.
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| 13:30 | Mip5 has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:33 | <Mip5> Hey Gang - I've setup an ltsp server - dual 3 GHz xeons, 8 gb memory. I've followed the howto for thinclients and NAT, and it appears to work, but I'm not seeing "firefox on ltsp20" as I would expect. How else can I check that it's working?
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| 13:33 | <cellofellow> alkisg: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/ztcj8yzE <- here's what happened
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> Mip5: do you mean localapps? Can you paste your lts.conf?
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| 13:34 | <Mip5> alkisg: Doh! Yes, I mean localapps. I'll paste it the lts.conf
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| 13:35 | <cellofellow> here's my ltsp-build-client.conf http://ltsp.pastebin.com/NNMiAvUa
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> cellofellow: urm, I see. We prohibit the installation of network-manager-gnome in the chroot because it disconnects the interface while booting... hmm....
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| 13:36 | I don't see any easy workarounds, one way to do it would be to allow network-manager-gnome and jockey-gtk but dpkg-divert their upstart scripts
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| 13:36 | <cellofellow> lubuntu-desktop isn't a task, darn, it's a metapackage.
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> Do file a bug report with that, so that we pick it up when we have some time for it
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| 13:36 | <cellofellow> on what package? ltsp? lubuntu-desktop?
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| 13:37 | <Mip5> alkisg: Here's the lts.conf http://ltsp.pastebin.com/YHprXLpK
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> ltsp (ubuntu) (not the upstream LTSP one)
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| 13:37 | <cellofellow> ok
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> Mip5: and you installed firefox to the chroot like http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSPKarmicLocalAppsFirefox says?
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| 13:38 | <cellofellow> alkisg: so, on the ltsp project in launchpad, or the ltsp-server package?
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| 13:38 | <Mip5> alkisg: yes, though, I suppose I could do it again in case I made some error. It would tell me that the package was already installed, right?
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> cellofellow: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug
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| 13:39 | Mip5: nah, let's troubleshoot it. Open a localxterm:
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| 13:39 | !localxterm
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| 13:39 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 13:39 | <cellofellow> alkisg: ok
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| 13:41 | <Mip5> alkisg: okay, a new terminal opened up
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> Mip5: ok, run firefox from there. Does it work?
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| 13:42 | <Mip5> alkisg: I ran ps aux | grep firefox, and got some results
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| 13:42 | whoops - I jumped the gun - hold on.
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| 13:43 | alkisg: yes, firefox runs when I launch it from that terminal
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> Mip5: delete lines 5 and 7 from your lts.conf and reboot the client
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| 13:44 | <cellofellow> alkisg: ok, all set https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/619398
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| 13:45 | alkisg: what now? I don't really want to use ubuntu-desktop, and I don't think xubuntu or kubuntu are any smaller. All I need is something to run the cinelerra renderfarm node on, and ffmpeg.
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> Nice, thanks
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| 13:46 | cellofellow: well, you can do the dpkg-divertion manually, and go on installing lubuntu-desktop
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| 13:46 | Let me see the easiest way...
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| 13:46 | <cellofellow> alkisg: ok, but I'll need to build a bare chroot first. How do I do that? Just put ubuntu-standard in FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOPS?
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| 13:47 | <alkisg> cellofellow: sudo gedit /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-fat-client
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| 13:47 | Remove jockey and network manager from the blacklist
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| 13:47 | Then re-run ltsp-build-client with lubuntu.
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| 13:47 | <cellofellow> ok, where's the blacklist?
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| 13:48 | <alkisg> It should finish properly (but the clients won't really boot because of network manager)
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| 13:48 | Open that file, you'll find it
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| 13:48 | <cellofellow> oh, missed that oops
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| 13:48 | <alkisg> When ltsp-build-client finishes, ping me to tell you the dpkg-divert line...
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| 13:48 | Note down everything you're doing and add it to the bug report when it works :)
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| 13:49 | <Mip5> alkisg: I've rebooted the client. I didn't rebuild the image or anything like that after editing lts.conf.
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| 13:50 | <cellofellow> alkisg: ok, modified the blacklist and rebuilding now. This'll take a few minutes.
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| 13:50 | <alkisg> Mip5: ok, so if you start firefox from the gnome menu it doesn't start locally?
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| 13:51 | <Mip5> alkisg: firefox starts and appears to run fine. It just doesn't say, "running ltsp20" above the menu bar, like I was expecting
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> Mip5: ok, open a localxterm again
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| 13:52 | ps -ef etc, does firefox run locally?
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| 13:53 | <Mip5> alkisgn: the localxterm's open, but I don't understand your request
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| 13:53 | <alkisg> ps -ef | grep firefox
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| 13:53 | Do you see firefox-bin there in the localxterm?
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| 13:54 | * cellofellow goes to lunch | |
| 13:55 | <Mip5> yes. It shows up both when I launch ff from the gnome menu, and when I launch it from the localxterm.
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> And when you run it from the localxterm, you still don't see "running on ltsp20" on the title bar?
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| 13:57 | <Mip5> right - I don't see that "running on ltsp20"
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> OK then everything's fine, just firefox doesn't use that specific wording
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| 13:59 | <Mip5> alkisg: okay - it's just strange b/c it does show up on my other server, and the setup and install were *supposed* to be the same. Perhaps I made an error somewhere....
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| 13:59 | alkisg: when is it necessary to rebuild or update the client image - whenever there have been changes to the chroot?
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 14:00 | (rebuild is only necessary when you change releases, e.g. karmic => lucid)
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| 14:00 | <Mip5> okay - so I should go back to my original lts.conf file and reboot
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> chroot apt-get update / upgrade ==> then ltsp-update-image
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| 14:00 | <Mip5> okay - thanks
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> Mip5: the 5 and 7 lines are not needed
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| 14:01 | You don't need to put them back...
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| 14:01 | <Mip5> really?
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> LOCALAPPS is True by default
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| 14:01 | And you only need to specify the MENU_ITEMS if you install something to the chroot but you *don't* want it to show up on the menus
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| 14:01 | <Mip5> so, as long as app has been installed into the chroot, and added to the menu line, it's good to go?
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> That's usually a rare use case...
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| 14:02 | So, no, you don't need to add apps to the menu line.
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| 14:02 | <Mip5> okay - thanks
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> np
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| 14:02 | <Blinny> alkisg: Anyone ever tell you that you are teh aweszome?
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| 14:03 | <Mip5> I was just going to say that.
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> Heh, thanks Blinny. Everything fine with keepalive?
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| 14:03 | <Blinny> Feeble attempt at the way kids are talking nowadays.
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| 14:03 | alkisg: Your precedence find was spot-on. I guess *that* is what changed. My hosts.allow
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| 14:03 | <Mip5> alright - thanks again alkisg. See y'all in the 'hood.
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| 14:20 | Mip5 has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:21 | <Mip5> Hey Gang, I've got firefox running as a localapp. I can print from openoffice (which is not setup as a localapp), but not from firefox. Is there a way to enable printing for localapps?
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| 14:28 | I'll check back later, after lunch. Thanks.
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| 14:40 | <cellofellow> alkisg: well, it's still building that image. Taking its time downloading packages.
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| 14:46 | <mstrohmeyer> hello
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| 14:46 | <cellofellow> so, I take it this localapps stuff is to mix the fat and thin client modus operundi? Run fat apps in a thin system?
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> cellofellow: yup
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| 14:51 | <mstrohmeyer> i have a thin client which puts the monitor to sleep right after it says loading client system
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| 14:51 | what can i do to track down whats happening
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| 14:52 | <cellofellow> sleeping monitor sounds like the video card isn't outputting anything and the monitor goes into its no-signal auto-sleep mode.
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| 14:52 | <mstrohmeyer> and how does one track down why a video card isn't outputting...?
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> Try either XSERVER=vesa or XRANDR_MODE_0=1024x768 in lts.conf
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| 14:52 | <mstrohmeyer> ok
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| 14:52 | thanks
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| 14:53 | <cellofellow> vesa sucks performance-wise but it almost always works, which is a good thing I suppose.
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| 14:53 | Blinny has quit IRC | |
| 14:53 | <alkisg> ...and it's a way to make sure that it's a video problem :)
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| 14:54 | <cellofellow> do I have to ltsp-update-image every time I make a change to lts.conf?
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| 14:54 | <cellofellow> (that, and I'd like to see a man page detailing everything that can go in an lts.conf)
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> !lts.con
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| 14:55 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: Error: "lts.con" is not a valid command.
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| 14:55 | <cellofellow> man 5 lts.conf, currently can't do that.
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 14:55 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 14:55 | <HigglyPiggly> are most people using retired workstations/desktops/laptops or getting specifically designed thin clients for this...
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> cellofellow: you don't need to update the image if you modify lts.conf
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| 14:56 | <cellofellow> ok
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| 14:56 | alkisg: what does require an image update?
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> Anything that writes to /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 14:57 | <cellofellow> doesn't the lts.conf go in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/? Or does it just go in /etc/ltsp/?
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> cellofellow: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 14:58 | <cellofellow> oh
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> HigglyPiggly: both, I guess. Even new workstations are sometimes used... (for fat clients)...
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| 14:59 | <johnny> yeah.. i switched my retired computers to some msi wind nettops with 2GB ram
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| 14:59 | probably overdid it a bit on the ram.. but it's pretty awesme
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| 14:59 | <cellofellow> I wonder which is used more, fat clients or centrally-managed desktops?
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| 15:00 | I know at my university it's dual-boot (Snow Leopard and WinXP) iMacs, mostly. They're centrally managed with Novell Zen I think.
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| 15:00 | johnny: that does sound awesome
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| 15:01 | <HigglyPiggly> we just bought some thin clients from 10ZiG technologies and they do not like to work with anything. its really frustrating
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> cellofellow: when I was looking around for fat clients, I didn't see any good implementations I could use... ltsp fat clients is the best I could find. Do you know of any other related technologies (with 1 image for many clients?)
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| 15:02 | <johnny> i think i would have been happy with regular thin clients if flash wasn't so terrible over the network
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> HigglyPiggly: any specific problems? also, distro/version?
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| 15:02 | <cellofellow> alkisg: puppet maybe, but it's for servers.
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| 15:02 | <HigglyPiggly> ubuntu 8.04, 8.10, and 10.04 all have issues
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| 15:02 | <johnny> or maybe your hardware is the issue
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| 15:03 | not ubuntu
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| 15:03 | <mstrohmeyer> XSERVER=vesa and the other one didn't help....
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> cellofellow: but that requires different images for each server, right?
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| 15:03 | <mstrohmeyer> i still get a black screen
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| 15:03 | <cellofellow> johnny: so, why fat clients instead of thin clients with localapps Firefox?
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| 15:03 | <johnny> because i didn't have enough ram
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| 15:03 | <cellofellow> alkisg: I honestly don't know.
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| 15:03 | <johnny> cellofellow, puppet wouldn't work
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| 15:03 | as the images don' actually move
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| 15:03 | or get deployed
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| 15:04 | puppet pushes
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| 15:04 | ltsp pulls
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| 15:04 | <cellofellow> I wonder if anyone has used ltsp fat clients to provision a cluster of servers.
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| 15:04 | <johnny> seems feasible
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| 15:04 | just depends on what the servers do
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| 15:04 | if all they do is crunch, then yes
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| 15:05 | <cellofellow> (actually, that's kind of what I'm doing. I want to turn a bunch of Windows laptops into a Cinelerra renderfarm)
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| 15:05 | <johnny> if they operate on local data.. not so awesome
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> I think one here was looking to do that, I don't know if he managed it...
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| 15:05 | mstrohmeyer: if you press alt+ctrl+f1 on the client, do you get a terminal screen?
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| 15:06 | HigglyPiggly: what kind of issues?
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| 15:07 | <mstrohmeyer> i do not get a terminal screen, and i'm concerned its because the keyboard isn't responding, because the old thin clients we're trying to replace will boot up properly to this image but the keyboard won't work at all
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| 15:07 | <HigglyPiggly> just general issues like keyboards not working, images working on one type but hte next type kernel panics with that image
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> HigglyPiggly: well, you need to take it one problem at a time. Ask for specific problems/error messages etc
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| 15:08 | HigglyPiggly has quit IRC | |
| 15:08 | <cellofellow> alkisg: you scared him off
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> Damn I forgot my magic wand which solves all the problems without asking for error messages...
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| 15:08 | <cellofellow> gee, I'd like one of those sometimes
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| 15:09 | <mstrohmeyer> okay so my screen is sleeping and if i type ctrl-alt-f1, nothing happens, and caplocks/scrolllock/numlock don't light up when i hit them on the keyboard
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> mstrohmeyer: distro/version?
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| 15:09 | <mstrohmeyer> ubuntu hardy
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| 15:09 | <cellofellow> I wonder if the Magic SysRQ keys work, or if your IO is completely hosed.
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> If the clients are very new, you might want to try lucid instead
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| 15:10 | Try also with SCREEN_07=shell in lts.conf
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| 15:10 | <mstrohmeyer> its a NPO, so they can't afford to upgrade all of their thin clients and so we have to be able to use the old ones as well. will the lucid images work on theold thin clients you think?
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> Specs?
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| 15:11 | (ram/cpu)
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| 15:11 | (and graphics cards)
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| 15:11 | <mstrohmeyer> on the server or the thin clients
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> Thin clients
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| 15:11 | My 10 year old pcs work fine with lucid...
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| 15:11 | <mstrohmeyer> intel atom n270 1gb ram, intel 945GSE
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| 15:11 | thats the newer one actually
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| 15:12 | sorry you were asking about the old one i'm sure
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| 15:12 | <cellofellow> what's the typical specs for an LTSP (thin clients, not fat clients) server?
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| 15:12 | <johnny> it's all in the docs
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| 15:12 | iirc
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| 15:12 | <cellofellow> (for fat clients a simple NAS would probably do the job I think)
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| 15:12 | <johnny> !docs
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| 15:12 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 15:12 | <johnny> or used to be anyways
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| 15:12 | also.. what happened to sbalnaev
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> mstrohmeyer: yup, the old ones
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| 15:13 | <mstrohmeyer> yea sorry i am trying to get the specs for you one second
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> cellofellow: a nas could server one rw image for each client, but not the same image to many clients
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| 15:13 | So that wouldn't be easy to maintain...
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| 15:14 | <mstrohmeyer> wtf via Eden CPU....
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| 15:14 | is that arm based?
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| 15:14 | <cellofellow> I don't quite understand, but OK.
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| 15:15 | <mstrohmeyer> no its x86... and the video card specs are "Analog video via VGA output"
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> ram?
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| 15:16 | <mstrohmeyer> 64MB
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| 15:16 | <johnny> that's a bit too low
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> Ouch. That's the lowest minimum for lucid, sometimes it hangs on booting but if it boots it's ok afterwards
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| 15:17 | <mstrohmeyer> haha the joy of not having money to do things that cost money! gogo NPO!
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> Even 96mb would be better, if it's possible
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| 15:17 | <johnny> i think the ram is soldered in on those
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| 15:17 | it's a fanless board
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| 15:18 | really small
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| 15:18 | <mstrohmeyer> yup
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| 15:18 | <johnny> but do they take compact flash?
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| 15:18 | <mstrohmeyer> its from disklessworkstation.com, a TK-3350/533 and they don't even admit to ever having made them on their website anymore
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| 15:18 | let me crack the case and see
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| 15:18 | <johnny> if they take compact flash, you could perhaps use some sort of swapping mechanism with a coupel cheap cf cards
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| 15:19 | instead of relying on the network swap
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| 15:19 | i guess that depends on how saturated your network is tho.. as to whether that's valuable or not
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| 15:20 | <mstrohmeyer> oh man they have an sdram slot! and it has a stick of 128....
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| 15:20 | <johnny> hah..
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| 15:20 | well you're good to go then
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| 15:20 | i obviously haven't seen ever eden board
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| 15:20 | i just know it was popular to have the ram soldered in
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| 15:20 | <cellofellow> how long would a CF-card SSD swap last?
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| 15:21 | <mstrohmeyer> i hadn't even heard of an eden cpu until just now so you're still ahead of me
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| 15:22 | <johnny> which npo is this btw?
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| 15:22 | and where are they located
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| 15:25 | <mstrohmeyer> its in the US, washington state
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| 15:25 | they have a bunch of offices but they have a tight budget
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| 15:25 | i'm going to try a lucid image on the server and see if either/both of the thin clients can boot
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| 15:25 | thanks for the help
| |
| 15:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I wonder if it would be better, instead of blacklisting packages in 030-fat-client, to dpkg-divert the upstart/initscripts of network-manager, jockey-gtk etc in ltsp-client.postinst... E.g. now lubuntu-desktop can't be installed because it depends on network-manager (and maybe some debian desktop package has the same problems)...
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| 15:26 | <vagrantc> dpkg-diversions are pretty ugly...
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| 15:27 | <cellofellow> alkisg: did you mean me?
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> cellofellow: yeah, but other desktop environments could have the same problem too
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| 15:29 | cellofellow: e.g. instead of reporting the problem in ltsp, you could ask lubuntu to lower "Depends: network-manager" to "Recommends: network-manager". But would that change be accepted?
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| 15:29 | <cellofellow> probably not
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| 15:29 | lubuntu-desktop ought to be a task, not a metapackage.
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> ubuntu-desktop is a metapackage too. It just recommends network-manager, it doesn't depend on it
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| 15:31 | <cellofellow> oh, hm
| |
| 15:32 | well, might be worth a try. Could add lubuntu to that bug and attach a patch changing the Depends to Recommends.
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| 15:33 | <mstrohmeyer> man i really hope this is not as stupid of a question as it sounds, ltsp-server-standalone installs ubuntu-desktop right.....
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| 15:34 | <cellofellow> no idea, but I'm making fat clients, but skinny fat clients. :)
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| 15:38 | <johnny> mstrohmeyer, maybe :)
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| 15:38 | mstrohmeyer, it's just that i knew somebody wit your last name and first initial and wondered if you had gotten into computers :)
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> mstrohmeyer: no, it doesn't
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| 15:39 | mstrohmeyer: e.g. one might want to install it to a kde desktop..
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| 15:39 | <johnny> mstrohmeyer, that's only if you choose ltsp from the alternative install ?
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| 15:41 | <mstrohmeyer> ive been told my last name is very common in germany, much like smith in the US
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| 15:42 | alkisg: i will install ubuntu-desktop as soon as the new image is done prepping
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> mstrohmeyer: you have a server with no desktop environment installed?
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| 15:42 | <johnny> the internet is a small place
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> Yeah, only a few billion souls on it :D
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| 15:43 | <mstrohmeyer> this is just a test environment, i just installed it this morning,ive not installed it manually however
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| 15:44 | johnny: what was your friends first name
| |
| 15:45 | <johnny> melinda
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| 15:46 | <mstrohmeyer> wrong gender haha
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| 16:26 | <cellofellow> yay, it's done downloading packages and is now actually installing stuff in my chroot.
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| 16:31 | taking its time of course
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| 16:32 | so, what does a dkpg-divert do anyway? Move a file but tell dpkg where it is so it can still access it?
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> Yes, so that package upgrades will still put that file in the diverted location
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| 16:33 | <cellofellow> nifty
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| 16:39 | <cellofellow> here's a surprisingly large amount of Gnome bits in Lubuntu.
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| 16:39 | not as much as Xubuntu, but a bunch.
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| 16:40 | bits of XFCE too, geepers.
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| 16:42 | should have tried with fluxbox :/
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| 16:45 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 16:50 | <cellofellow> aarh, now it has to download the kernel package which is 30MB and will take another 30 minutes to download. I so wish I could do this at home where I have 1.5Mbps (not much I know) not this snailish 256Kbps.
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| 16:51 | my house is just across the street, it has wifi, but it's just far enough away I can't connect to it from here. :(
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| 16:51 | <johnny> cellofellow, get a bigger antena :)
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> You could just do it there and transfer the chroot :)
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| 16:52 | <johnny> cellofellow, i wouldn't call them gnome bits.. most of them are pretty standard bits of an OS
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| 16:52 | most..
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| 16:52 | <cellofellow> alkisg: :/ wish I had done that earlier.
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| 16:53 | Ghidorah has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:53 | <johnny> that's where nonsense arguments about bloat start from :)
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| 16:53 | <cellofellow> johnny: bigger antenna would work I think, but my router doesn't have external antennas. :\
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| 16:53 | <Ghidorah> Hello everyon. What would cause a terminal not to be able to login? I'm able to log in locally to the server.
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| 16:53 | <johnny> ah, that would be problematic
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| 16:53 | Ghidorah, error messages
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| 16:54 | <Ghidorah> It just times
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| 16:54 | <johnny> please start with those
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| 16:54 | <Ghidorah> out
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| 16:54 | <cellofellow> I don't want a desktop I want basically a tiny little system to run one app *once*.
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| 16:54 | <johnny> can you connect from ssh ?
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| 16:54 | <cellofellow> app happens to need X
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| 16:54 | <johnny> from a machine not a thin client Ghidorah ?
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| 16:54 | <Ghidorah> Johnny: yes
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| 16:54 | <johnny> where does it time out
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| 16:54 | c'mon dude
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| 16:54 | help us
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| 16:54 | don't make us pull it out of you
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| 16:55 | <Ghidorah> It is timing out after entering the password.
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| 16:56 | mstrohmeyer has quit IRC | |
| 16:57 | <Ghidorah> Is there any log that you're aware of that I may reference?
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| 16:59 | <johnny> sure.. client /var/log/ldm.log
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| 16:59 | or anything on the server in /var/log
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| 16:59 | <alkisg> cellofellow: you may make a screen script that launches your app instead of ldm, then (but you'd need a specific user for each client - LDM_USERNAME / LDM_PASSWORD etc)
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| 17:00 | Ghidorah: a common problem is ssh keys (ltsp-update-sshkeys). Distro/version?
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| 17:01 | <Ghidorah> I'm un Ubuntu 10.04. I've run ltsp-update-sshkeys a few times
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> And also ltsp-update-image?
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| 17:01 | <Ghidorah> correct.
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| 17:01 | I'll run it again.
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> Do you see a login attempt at the server /var/log/auth.log?
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| 17:03 | <Ghidorah> alkisg: I see the login attempt.
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> What exactly does it say?
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| 17:04 | <Ghidorah> It says authentication failure, even though I have tried with multiple different accounts
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> OK. Put this on your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf:
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| 17:05 | [Default]
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| 17:05 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 17:05 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 17:05 | <Ghidorah> k
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Reboot the client, and switch to vt2 with alt+ctrl+f2
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| 17:05 | At that terminal, run: ssh user@server
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| 17:05 | Change user to an existing username, but leave server as it is.
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| 17:06 | Check if you're able to login from there, without seeing any warnings at all.
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| 17:07 | <Ghidorah> will do.
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| 17:09 | is there a known scenario when ltsp-update-sshkeys doesn't function?
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| 17:09 | I got a warning about adding RSA host to the list of known hosts
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> You shouldn't be getting a /var/log/auth.log entry though
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| 17:10 | OK, now, after you said OK to that warning, switch to vt7 and try again on ldm
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| 17:10 | <Ghidorah> I was able to log in
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> OK. Try ltsp-update-sshkeys and ltsp-update-image once more, just to be sure
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| 17:11 | <Ghidorah> k
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| 17:11 | is there any output expected from ltsp-update-sshkeys?
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> No
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| 17:12 | <Ghidorah> any log file that it references?
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> syslog?
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| 17:13 | You can also do "sudo sh /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-sshkeys" to see the trace
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| 17:14 | <cellofellow> hey hey it's building the image now
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| 17:15 | <Ghidorah> alkisg: while I dont understand what I was doing wrong earlier... it is working now
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> I think I've seen ltsp-update-sshkeys fail sometimes, but I didn't pinpoint it as I'm using a dynamic IP on the server, so I have to use LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o CheckHostIP=no -o LogLevel=silent" in lts.conf
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| 17:15 | <Ghidorah> Thank you for your help!
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| 17:16 | <alkisg> np
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| 17:21 | <cellofellow> hm, network booting doesn't seem to be particularly speedy
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> 13 seconds for my fat clients, as opposed to 50 seconds for local boot
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| 17:22 | <cellofellow> maybe it's just virtualbox
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| 17:22 | (I have a real computer to test it on later but virtualbox just for a quick check)
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> How much ram did you put in the guest?
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| 17:23 | <cellofellow> 768MB
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> (and what are your server specs?)
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| 17:23 | <cellofellow> server's actually an Ion box, so not that hot
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| 17:23 | besides, I need to do those dpkg-diverts you were talking about
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| 17:24 | on jockey and network manager
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| 17:24 | <alkisg> Right
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| 17:24 | Also remove "quiet splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default to better see any boot problems
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| 17:24 | Does it hang now on the splash screen?
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| 17:25 | <cellofellow> no
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> What, it actually boots?
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| 17:25 | <cellofellow> well, the bootloader loads, the kernel boots, and I see Plymouth. Didn't wait around long enough to see if it got to LDM.
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| 17:25 | Because I remembered I needed to do the divert.
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| 17:26 | <johnny> knipwim_, another update on dracut :)
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> I think it would hang on plymouth, while nm was trying to get a network address...
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| 17:26 | But do try booting before dpkg-divert, to see exactly what's needed
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| 17:26 | <cellofellow> ok
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| 17:26 | i'll turn off plymouth though so I can see
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| 17:27 | does the syslinux/pxelinux config format have comments?
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| 17:27 | <alkisg> Yes, with a # in front
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| 17:28 | I think something like this will be needed in the chroot: sudo dpkg-divert --divert /etc/network-manager.conf.diverted --rename /etc/init/network-manager.conf
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| 17:28 | <cellofellow> let's see what happens when I boot it without it.
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| 17:28 | <alkisg> Right
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| 17:29 | <johnny> how come you haven't bugged the networkmanager dude about this issue alkisg
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| 17:29 | there should be no reason to disable networkmanager
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> No time for everything, johnny... :)
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| 17:29 | <johnny> ltsp spends too much time working around things
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| 17:29 | instead of actually talking to upstream
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| 17:30 | imo
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| 17:30 | altho sadly the ssh with null cipher thing was blocked by powers above us :(
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| 17:30 | <alkisg> I filed a bug about the problem with 1 managed interface and 1 unmanaged, though (=classic ltsp setup)
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| 17:30 | ...and it hasn't been solved for over a year
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| 17:30 | <johnny> why would you need 1 unmanaged?
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| 17:30 | why not let networkmanager manage it
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| 17:30 | <alkisg> Unmanaged == a static ip in /etc/network/interfaces. It's the classic ubuntu/ltsp setup from the alternate cd
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| 17:31 | <johnny> you really have to bug the maintainer if you want something done :)
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| 17:31 | no need for that static ip in there
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| 17:31 | networkmanager can do it
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| 17:31 | i've done it with networkmanager, works easy
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| 17:31 | <cellofellow> i'm letting nm manage my wired network for the ltsp, and my wireless for inet.
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| 17:31 | <johnny> at least in lucid
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| 17:31 | never needed to before
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| 17:31 | <alkisg> Sure, but it's a bug, and we'd have to change the ltsp code to create a system connection with network manager, so we'd have to depend on it then
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| 17:32 | <johnny> that's ok
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| 17:32 | <alkisg> Not all admins want network manager
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| 17:32 | <johnny> they are dumb
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| 17:32 | <alkisg> It doesn't support all configurations, e.g. you can't do bonding with it
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| 17:32 | <johnny> it's pulled in as part of the desktop environment anyways
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| 17:32 | sure.. in that case ,it should allow unmanaged
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| 17:32 | <cellofellow> alkisg: so the problem is the system gets an IP from DHCP when the PXE stuff starts, and just keeps that IP. But when nm gets going it resets the nic and stops?
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| 17:32 | <johnny> since you can have more complicated rules
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| 17:33 | just for normal people, letting networkmanager manage it is ok
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| 17:33 | i think it's ok to use networkmanager automatically if it's there especially
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> cellofellow: not exactly. Initramfs asks again for a dhcp lease. And then, network manager asks for an ip for the third time, and then it breaks - at least I imagine so, I haven't tested it for a long time
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| 17:33 | <johnny> even if it's not a dep
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| 17:34 | too bad pxe can't pass the lease :(
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> johnny: in any case, it _is_ a bug that hasn't been solved for over a year
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| 17:34 | <johnny> sure.. just takes some prodding
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| 17:34 | just like every other bug people want solved
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> We're using 1 nic setups here so I don't care much, so I left it the prodding for other persons who use 2 nic setups :)
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| 17:36 | <cellofellow> I'm using a 2-nic setup but I don't really care about the internet access for my fat clients. All I need is LAN. (I've been using a LiveUSB and link-local (zeroconf) addresses up till now.)
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| 17:37 | ok, the vbox fat client got up to Starting LTSP client..... [OK] and then seems to have frozen. No network traffic, no CPU.
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| 17:38 | what's my ltsp260 login for the tty1?
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| 17:38 | that's still working
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| 17:39 | oh, getting something, says NetworkManager blocked for more than 120 seconds.
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| 17:39 | I think diverting nm sounds like a great idea.
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| 17:39 | <alkisg> OK, go ahead :)
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| 17:40 | <cellofellow> alkisg: what about jockey, should I divert it too?
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| 17:40 | <alkisg> That's not critical, but you don't want it to popup to ask people to install drivers... so yeah
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| 17:40 | I think that's in /etc/xdg/autostart
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| 17:41 | <cellofellow> yeah
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| 17:55 | <cellofellow> well, got to LDM that time
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| 17:55 | now it's authenticating, logging in....
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| 17:56 | taking its sweet-monkey time
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> Looks like your virtual client or net isn't good enough...
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| 18:00 | <mstrohmeyer> i have a hardy ltsp-server box, and when it boots one of our new thin clients, the kernel panics
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| 18:00 | <cellofellow> pcmanfm doesn't like it for some reason, gave me an error box "cannot connect to FAM. Please make sure you have FAM or GAMIN running"
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| 18:00 | <mstrohmeyer> the message preceeding the panic is : eth0: SIOCGIFINDEX: No such Device
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| 18:00 | no devices to configure
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| 18:00 | can't open /tmp/net-eth0.conf
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| 18:01 | <alkisg> mstrohmeyer: what nic on the client?
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| 18:01 | It's probably a missing module, you might need a newer kernel. Why not try out Lucid instead? Hardy is too old anyway now...
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| 18:02 | <mstrohmeyer> Realtek RL8111
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| 18:02 | because lucid won't boot on our older thin clients.... and there isn't enough to replace all of them
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| 18:02 | my next step is to try and boot multiple kernels based on mac address
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> mstrohmeyer: why won't it boot? any error messages?
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| 18:03 | I think you should troubleshoot those, not the hardy problems..
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| 18:03 | <mstrohmeyer> the other issue is the company can't afford to have the server updated, so it would have to be an updated debootstrap installing a lucid image which is pretty hairy in itself
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> I'm not sure I got this, why wouldn't lucid work on your server?
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| 18:04 | (with a normal installation?)
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| 18:04 | <mstrohmeyer> lucid would work on the server, but the company lacks the financing to have lucid installed on the server
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| 18:05 | <alkisg> Hmmm I think that would take much less time than solving the hardy problems, though. OK, anyway, here's a page to add modules:
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| 18:05 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
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| 18:05 | <mstrohmeyer> great thank you
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| 18:13 | <cellofellow> where does the lts.conf file go, again?
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| 18:14 | <alkisg> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 18:15 | <cellofellow> [default]
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| 18:15 | NFS_HOME=/home
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| 18:15 | that should make /home on the fat clients by an NFS mount of /home on my server?
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| 18:15 | s/by/be/
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| 18:16 | /home 176.16.0.0/16(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)
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| 18:16 | that's my /etc/exports
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> Sounds ok, try it with SCREEN_02=shell in lts.conf - it should be mounted even before logging in to ldm
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| 18:25 | <cellofellow> so, the image thing, how's that work? It gets served up by nbd as a read-only hard drive or something?
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| 18:25 | I notice it's squashfs
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Exactly, and with a tmpfs/aufs on top of it
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| 18:26 | <cellofellow> not much different from how the livecd works, then. I guess, anyway.
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| 18:31 | aha, the real box boots WAY faster than the virtualbox
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| 18:31 | * cellofellow thinks he shouldn't use virtualbox without hardware acceleration | |
| 18:31 | <alkisg> Late here, goodnight all
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| 18:32 | <mstrohmeyer> alkisq: is there a page that lists modules and hardware that works with them? for instance, to see if r8169 will work with the RLT8111/8168B ?
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| 18:59 | <mstrohmeyer> exit
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| 19:23 | <cellofellow> haha!! Sweet success!
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| 19:42 | <alkisg> cellofellow: nice! please write any info needed to get lubuntu running to the bug report :)
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| 19:44 | Hmmm a better way may be to modify the ltsp initscripts so that they *delete* the network-manager upstart/init scripts on booting - that would even be cross distro...
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| 19:55 | <cellofellow> ok, weird. Tried it on my brothers laptop and the first time I got a kernel panic. Since then, it sits there waiting for DHCP. Wireshark shows that the DHCP DISCOVER and REQUEST packets are getting through, and it
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| 19:55 | it's responding with DHCP OFFER packets, but they aren't being excepted and no lease is being made.
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| 19:56 | now he's gotten really grumpy with me and won't let me keep it to figure out what's wrong.
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| 19:57 | s/excepted/accepted/
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> Is it a very new laptop? E.g. core 2 duo etc?
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| 20:00 | <cellofellow> actually it's a little Acer Aspire One.
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| 20:01 | Atom CPU, hyperthreaded, don't remember the model number.
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| 20:01 | It is fairly new.
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> I've seen that a "sleep 10" is needed on very fast clients... but you won't know if he doesn't let you try :)
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| 20:02 | <cellofellow> sleep 10? where?
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> E.g. put break=mount in pxelinux.cfg/default, wait a few seconds when you get a busybox shell, and then press ctrl+d
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| 20:02 | <cellofellow> oh
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| 20:02 | break looks like a debugging tool
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> If that boots it, then you can just put a sleep in ltsp_nbd
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| 20:03 | It is
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| 20:03 | <cellofellow> well, at this point I 1) don't have the laptop, he took it back home with him. He's paranoid I'll break something, though I've run LiveUSBs on it before without trouble.
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| 20:03 | 2) It won't work with DHCP.
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| 20:04 | It worked once, but quit.
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| 20:04 | My grandma's Core2Duo worked fine, no kernel panics or need to add sleeps to it.
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| 20:05 | worse comes to worse I have a coule SD cards I can make into LiveUSBs.
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| 20:05 | s/coule/couple of/
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> What I'm saying is a way to bypass dhcp problems
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| 20:07 | (_some_ specific dhcp problems that are caused by inappropriate boot sequence)
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| 20:09 | <cellofellow> but how does editting pxelinux.conf/default help when the PXE in the network card can't even obtain an IP address and TFTP pxelinux?
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| 20:12 | <alkisg> Oh. I thought that was the second dhcp request, in the initramfs...
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| 20:12 | Are you using the default dhcpd.conf? With root-path and everything?
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| 20:13 | <cellofellow> works on a different laptop
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| 20:13 | here, let me pastebin
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| 20:14 | http://ltsp.pastebin.com/wqdVsWQN
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| 20:14 | <alkisg> The router there is on a different subnet...
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| 20:15 | <cellofellow> which line?
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| 20:15 | <alkisg> Urm, I guess the range line :)
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| 20:15 | <cellofellow> oh
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| 20:16 | the range is in the 172.16.1.0/24 address space but the subnet is still 172.16.0.0/16
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| 20:16 | <alkisg> OK just realized that
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| 20:16 | <cellofellow> anyway, just rebooted that other box and it didn't work.
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| 20:17 | <alkisg> You don't happen to have another dhcp server runinng on a hardware router, right?
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| 20:17 | <cellofellow> I turned that off.
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| 20:18 | there is one on the wifi network but that shouldn't cause any trouble
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| 20:18 | <alkisg> Dunno... looks ok
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| 20:19 | <cellofellow> does dhcpd log anywhere?
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| 20:21 | <alkisg> /var/log/daemon.log, and it also has a "verbose" option
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| 20:22 | But I don't use it so I'm not really experienced with it... (I use dnsmasq)
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| 20:22 | <cellofellow> I generally use dnsmasq too, and was going to but this came with dhcpd. Can I see your dnsmasq config?
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| 20:22 | or a sample
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| 20:23 | do you use the tftp server in dnsmasq?
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> dpkg -L ltsp-server | grep dnsmasq
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| 20:24 | <cellofellow> found the problem, my / is full.
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> No, I left tftpd-hpa because of dependency problems
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| 20:24 | Heh
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| 20:25 | I'm using dnsmasq in proxydhcp mode though, so that I actually use my router's dhcp server and dnsmasq only fills the boot filename... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
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| 20:25 | <cellofellow> I foolishly left only 5GB for / on this computer when I installed it. It is my grandpas Solitaire machine, actually, and I didn't expect to be editting video on it.
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| 20:26 | alkisg: nifty
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> Just purge some of the apt cache to make room...
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| 20:26 | <cellofellow> yeah...
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| 20:27 | or put yet another bind mount from /home into /var. I have it for /var/tmp and /opt/ltsp
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| 20:31 | maybe my brother will let me try again
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| 20:33 | I could nuke these unused Vista partitions.
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| 20:34 | nah, takes forever to move partitions.
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| 20:41 | can I write a custom screen script (/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/) and pass options to it with lts.conf? Per-machine options, you know?
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 20:42 | <cellofellow> hm, I'm looking at the rdesktop script right now and not sure it's what I want.
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| 20:43 | can I set the $USER in shell?
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> Can you describe your desired end result?
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| 20:44 | E.g. what user would run your app?
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| 20:44 | There are no users in the chroot by default...
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| 20:45 | <cellofellow> user $USER (1000) would run `cinelerra -d $PORT`
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| 20:45 | I could run two instances on some boxes with 2 cores.
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| 20:45 | <alkisg> You don't care about security/authentication etc?
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| 20:45 | <cellofellow> thing is different instances need different ports.
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> All clients would use the same user, 1000?
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| 20:46 | <cellofellow> nah, not worried about security. Yes, user 1000 for all of them.
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> Won't that have problems with all users working on the same nfs-mounted home dir?
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| 20:46 | <cellofellow> $PORT needs to be different for each one, though. I suppose I could hard-code the USER.
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| 20:47 | the cinelerra master node parcels out the jobs so they all write to different files.
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> PORT is easy, you can either pass it with lts.conf or even calculate it from the client ip
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| 20:47 | <cellofellow> They read the same files, but write to different ones.
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> In that case I think you can just add a user to the chroot
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| 20:47 | <cellofellow> $PORT actually i'd like to default to 4000 but some boxes will need to have 4001 for a second instance. (It isn't multi-threaded so I run an instance per core.)
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| 20:48 | to do that just ltsp-enter-chroot; adduser?
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> Yes, and just "su" to that user from the screen.d script
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| 20:49 | (never done that, but I think it'll work)
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| 20:50 | While developing your script, it might be a good idea to start with a single "xterm" so that you try stuff manually before putting them to a script
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| 20:51 | <cellofellow> is there an xterm screen script?
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> nope :)
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| 20:51 | <cellofellow> pity
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| 20:51 | maybe I'll just disable my ldm and use the shell screen.
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> You can just modify a little any of those scripts, e.g. rdesktop, and put "SCREEN_07=yourscript"...
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| 20:53 | <cellofellow> yeah
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| 20:54 | so, how do I pass a PORT variable to myscript?
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| 20:54 | using ltsp.conf
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| 20:54 | <alkisg> All lts.conf variables should already be sourced without you doing anything
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| 20:55 | (keep the `. /usr/share/ltsp/screen-x-common` though)
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| 20:56 | <cellofellow> huh? so, I could just put something in there like CINELERRA_PORT_01=4000 and access that?
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 20:56 | <cellofellow> ok, awesome
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> That's the good thing about using a framework, as opposed to trying to implement fat clients from scratch :)
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