IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 23 April 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:10 | <mighty-d> hi, i wanted to know if there's support for webcams on thin clients
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| 03:40 | <envite> Hola a todos desde España
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| 03:40 | Hello all from Spain
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| 04:51 | <Q-FUNK> howdy!
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| 04:52 | has any advance been made as far as supporting audio to/from the thin clients on LTSP?
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| 04:53 | <envite> Q-FUNK: which is exactly your problem?
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| 04:55 | <Q-FUNK> we did a test using a PXE version of out thin client usng Edubuntu (Feisty, IIRC). sound from e.g. media players, comes out on the LTSP server instead of the thin client hardware.
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| 04:56 | <envite> ok
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| 04:56 | but all my sound comes from the client' speakers
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| 04:56 | have you readed the Sound page iun the wiki?
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| 04:56 | <Q-FUNK> I'd asume similar problems with audio input and e.g. Ekiga
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| 04:57 | <envite> about input i have no idea :(
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| 04:58 | <Q-FUNK> the hardware involved is www.linuterm.com
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| 04:58 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, ekiga and frieds work fine in feistys ltsp with the new alsa aemulation
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| 04:58 | <Q-FUNK> based around an AMD Geode LX800
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| 04:58 | <ogra> the intput side isnt configured automtically yet though
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| 04:58 | thats for gutsy
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| 04:59 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: oh, does it? :) excellent news, actually. so it emulates alsa and forwards it to the real alsa on the thin client?
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| 04:59 | <ogra> yeah
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| 04:59 | <Q-FUNK> groovy!
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| 04:59 | <ogra> thanks to pulseaudio :)
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| 04:59 | * Q-FUNK really needs to set himself a tst server with edubuntu/feisty. | |
| 05:00 | <Q-FUNK> ah
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| 05:00 | pa- was hacked to do that sort of audio forwarding?
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| 05:00 | <ogra> no
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| 05:01 | it was designed to d such sort of audio forwarding ;)
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| 05:02 | <Q-FUNK> oh ;)
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| 05:02 | <ogra> due to lack of time i had no opportunity to work on the input side yet, but volume control and sound output through the emulated alsa device work just fine, input is a matter of configuration i guess
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| 05:02 | <Q-FUNK> ok
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| 05:03 | <ogra> there is a howto for an edgy skype LTSP setup with pulse ... on the novell wiki
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| 05:04 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: I might be able to contribute some of our customer's help to finalize that. for them, getting VoIP working on the thin stations is a must-have. thankg goodness, they are a university network.
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| 05:04 | <ogra> http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Edgy/HOWTO:_PulseAudio
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| 05:04 | <ogra> in the far future i plan to build a ubuntu derivative with ltsp and asterisk out of teh box ...
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| 05:05 | but that takes a lot of time my job doesnt leave me ...
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| 05:05 | <Q-FUNK> asterisk with ekiga?
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| 05:05 | <ogra> yeah
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| 05:05 | on a ubuntu LTSP setup ...
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| 05:06 | pop the CD in the server, boot ... start the installer ... go have some coffee ... return to your running callcenter ;)
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| 05:12 | <Q-FUNK> :D
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| 05:12 | that would totally rock
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| 06:48 | <nf1> Hello, I got problem with my NFS server. When the thin client boots up it says: nfs over tcp not available from SERVER_IP. I'm using Debian sid nad ltsp5.0
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| 06:48 | and ltsp5.0*
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| 06:49 | <ogra> which nfs server do you run on the server ?
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| 06:50 | (ltsp-server-standalone depends on nfs-kernel-server)
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| 06:51 | s/ltsp-server-standalone/ltsp-server/g
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| 06:51 | taht should provide nfs ove tcp out of the box
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| 06:54 | <untitled> hello
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| 06:54 | <ogra> hi
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| 06:55 | <untitled> ltsp should support local devices out of the box, right?
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| 06:55 | ltsp4.2*
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| 06:55 | <ogra> not sure about "out of the box" here ...
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| 06:55 | ltsp5 des though
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| 06:55 | *does
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| 06:56 | there are pages on wiki.ltsp.org for ltspfs on 4.2
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| 06:56 | <untitled> i know, but i can't compile ltspfs
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| 06:56 | i get errors
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| 06:57 | once i got all the devices work, i dont even know how i did it..
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| 06:57 | <ogra> i have never compiled ltpfs for 4.2 so i might be the worng person to ask ... whats the error you get ?
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| 06:57 | <untitled> some incompatible poiters..alot
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| 06:58 | it's probably not about compiling ltpfs, i just don't have a clue how to get it working..wiki shows how to compile..
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| 06:59 | <ogra> what architecture is that ?
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| 07:00 | PC ? PPC ?
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| 07:00 | <untitled> pc
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| 07:00 | just a normal intel with normal debian
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| 07:00 | xeon code2 :)
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| 07:00 | core*
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| 07:01 | <ogra> which debian ?
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| 07:01 | <untitled> etch4
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| 07:01 | <ogra> ugh, why do you use ltsp 4.2 then ?
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| 07:02 | <untitled> what should i use
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| 07:02 | <nf1> ogra, 1ox for the help, it was a firewall problem
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| 07:02 | <ogra> untitled, ltsp5 ;)
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| 07:02 | untitled, but remove all 4.2 bits before
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| 07:03 | <untitled> i just downloaded ltsp-utils.deb and it downloaded 4.2 itself...
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| 07:04 | <ogra> ah, crap
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| 07:04 | i know vagrant asked for it to be reoved from the archive
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| 07:04 | like we did in ubuntu
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| 07:04 | in ubuntu and debian you should really use ltsp5 nowadays
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| 07:05 | <untitled> ok
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| 07:05 | <ogra> (well you should use it everywhere, but all others lack the ltsp5 implementation yet ;) )
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| 07:05 | <untitled> thanks for the tip
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| 07:05 | <ogra> there is a debian wikipage for it
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| 07:06 | <untitled> it just seems like hardcore porno to setup local devices with 4.2...
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| 07:06 | <ogra> well, its darn easy with 5 :)
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| 07:08 | <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices <- ubuntu, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs <- debian
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| 07:08 | in edubuntu its all set up and enabled out of the box ...
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| 07:09 | <str4nd> ogra: Where is fast and short installing guide to (k)ubuntu? (something like apt-get install <package> and then configure your system!)
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| 07:11 | <ogra> str4nd, for ltsp ?
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| 07:11 | <artista_frustrad> can anyone tell me what is the minimum necessary amount of ram to run ltsp5 with ltspfs and all
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| 07:11 | ?
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| 07:11 | <ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
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| 07:12 | <artista_frustrad> in a debian etch
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| 07:12 | <ogra> artista_frustrad, 48M is absolute minimum ... 64M should be fine
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| 07:12 | <str4nd> ogra: thanks :)
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| 07:12 | <cyberorg> fxrsliberty: what problem did you face? (more on topic here)
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| 07:13 | <artista_frustrad> ogra.. as I suspected.. not enougth ram .. my clients run on 32mb.. and it worked really well on ltsp4.2
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| 07:13 | <cyberorg> hi ogra
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| 07:13 | <ogra> artista_frustrad, thats a tradeoff we have to pay for using distro packages
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| 07:13 | <fxrsliberty> Cyberorg: I was having issues with PXE boot
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| 07:14 | cyberorg: can you find a SUSE version BZR i can not
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| 07:14 | <cyberorg> i dont get it, that part is set up by ltsp-update-kernels and it works fine
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| 07:15 | i just got debian tarball, ogra suggests using ubuntu one as it is more up to date
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| 07:15 | <fxrsliberty> Cyberorg: i dump it for a couple of hours of working with kiwi netboot with a repurposed PC with HD
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| 07:16 | <ogra> cyberorg, well to just get PXE running any tarball should work :)
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| 07:16 | <cyberorg> ogra: yeah
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| 07:16 | <fxrsliberty> cyberorg: can you find a suse version of bzr?
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| 07:17 | <gvy> hi
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| 07:17 | <cyberorg> fxrsliberty: we cannot use or will have to modify kiwi netboot image to be able to use ltsp
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| 07:17 | <cyberorg> fxrsliberty: havent used bzr yet
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| 07:18 | <fxrsliberty> I think the wyse boot option might be more compatible with the LTSP bits
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| 07:19 | put the Wyse boot option in a chroot jail chared via nfs with dhcp option for root path
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| 07:19 | <gvy> ogra, ayt? localdev/muekow question on my hands (integrating into yet another distro)
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| 07:19 | <cyberorg> fxrsliberty: first thing you need to try is get a tarball and try that, then we will figure our the best way of creating suse chroot
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| 07:20 | <ogra> gvy, shoot
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| 07:20 | <cyberorg> fxrsliberty: that is exactly what ltsp5 does
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| 07:20 | <gvy> ogra, is there a current/coherent description of locladev mechanics anywhere?
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| 07:20 | <ogra> cyberorg, well, you should integrate your code into teh plugin system from the beginning so fxrsliberty id right, you should get bzr ;)
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| 07:20 | <fxrsliberty> what does it do?
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| 07:21 | <ogra> s/id/is/
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| 07:21 | <fxrsliberty> thanks ogra!
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| 07:21 | sorry cyberorg
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| 07:21 | <cyberorg> ogra: what plugin system?
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| 07:21 | <ogra> cyberorg, the one we use in ltsp-build-client
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| 07:22 | <cyberorg> the one to build chroot system?
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| 07:22 | <ogra> it was designed for multi distro support :)
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| 07:22 | yes
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| 07:22 | ltsp-build-client is the tol you run to create the chroot
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| 07:22 | *tool
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| 07:22 | <cyberorg> ok, so we drop kiwi, i thought we can use kiwi to do that bit
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| 07:22 | <ogra> sur eyou can use kiwi
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| 07:22 | if it creates a chroot ...
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| 07:23 | <gvy> there are trivial things like a thinko(?) in udev.d/88-ltsp.rules resulting in doubling the entries in /var/run/.delayed-mount
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| 07:23 | <cyberorg> kiwi creates chroot, live distro, netboot, vmx, xen anything you can think of
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| 07:23 | <gvy> and it's a bit hard to understand what's on purpose and what's yet another lapse. :)
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| 07:23 | <ogra> you need any kind of bootstrapping mechanism to build your chroot ... if kiwi provides that, perfect
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| 07:24 | for gentoo you have the stage1 tarball ... for redhat you have anaconda ... debian based systems have debootstrap
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| 07:24 | <gvy> ogra, I've actually spent some time patching 4.2 (and publishing what was more-or-less reasonable on wiki.ltsp.org) but have since passed working on LTSP5 integration into ALT Linux to a separate fulltimer
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| 07:24 | <cyberorg> i'll have a look at ltsp-build-client and see how we can go forward from there
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| 07:24 | <gvy> now we're pretty much there but localdev :)
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| 07:24 | <ogra> gvy, actually we only use the ltspfsd and ltspfs binaries from the old implemetation
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| 07:24 | <gvy> ogra, ah; those worked
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| 07:25 | <ogra> all the surrounding bits (tthe actual stuff that makes it work) were rewritten for ltsp5
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| 07:25 | <gvy> ogra, I've packaged those by hand (sent patches/specs to sbalneav@ but never heard back)
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| 07:25 | <ogra> cyberorg, also you dont need a netboot image ... syslinux should be able to just create that on the fly for you in any distro
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| 07:26 | all you need is a chroot
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| 07:27 | gvy, the ltsp5 implementation doesnt use lbus anymore but an ssh tunnel provided by ldm ... all mounting happens natively through udev rules on the client ...
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| 07:27 | <cyberorg> ogra: yes, kiwi uses it for another purpose
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| 07:27 | <ogra> ... on the server side we have one script and a suid root binary that moves the mount to /media/$USER/<drivename>
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| 07:29 | <gvy> ogra, tnx
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| 07:29 | anyone with e.g. kdm goes north-west? :)
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| 07:29 | <ogra> anyone not using ldm, yes
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| 07:29 | <fxrsliberty> cyberorg: someone built an rpm for BZR a while ago but I can't find it
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| 07:30 | <ogra> (which you shouldnt do anyway XDMCP is da evil)
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| 07:30 | <gvy> :]
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| 07:30 | <cyberorg> fxrsliberty: check on BS, it could be there
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| 07:31 | <ogra> gvy, sbalneav is working on an X tunneled communication layer for gutsy (7.10) .... then XDMCP should work as well again ...
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| 07:31 | and i'm working on proper hal integration for october
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| 07:31 | <gvy> ogra, thanks for explanation; is there a distro integration I should paste this q/a into?
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| 07:31 | *page on wiki
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| 07:32 | <ogra> cyberorg, there is nothing on the bzr homepage ?
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| 07:32 | <gvy> ah, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
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| 07:32 | <ogra> (http://bazaar-vcs.org/)
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| 07:32 | <fxrsliberty> cyberorg: got it
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| 07:33 | <artista_frustrad> ogra, in your opinion. a Pentium 233 with 64 mb ram can handle ltsp5 ?? with all those ssh calculations for every packet ??
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| 07:33 | <ogra> gvy, well, thats rather general integration notes
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| 07:33 | artista_frustrad, yes
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| 07:33 | <gvy> ogra, re ldm: a colleague tells that ldm misses userlist for us
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| 07:33 | <ogra> artista_frustrad, it will boot slow though, but should be fine for working ...
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| 07:33 | * artista_frustrad got scared after all those presentations at fisl | |
| 07:33 | <ogra> artista_frustrad, make sour you have NBD_SWAP=True set in lts.conf
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| 07:34 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: could you tell me the url to get the ltsp bits again?
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| 07:34 | <ogra> gvy, not implemented yet
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| 07:34 | gvy, i just started a C/Gtk rewrite that should have some extra features in october
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| 07:34 | <cyberorg> fxrsliberty: on BS ?
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| 07:35 | <fxrsliberty> cyberorg: i found the bzr rpm in the bs, yes
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| 07:35 | <ogra> https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/feisty-ltsp
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| 07:35 | has the most recent code
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| 07:35 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: ty
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| 07:37 | ogra: does this come down as source?
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| 07:38 | <ogra> bzr get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/feisty-ltsp
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| 07:38 | will create a feisty-ltsp dir in the current dir
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| 07:39 | <gvy> ogra, well... from mgmt pov it's not exactly sane to roll out a new mechanism for mounting as default (especially breaking the robust existing one) to narrow down dm support to half-written one
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| 07:40 | <ogra> half written one ?
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| 07:40 | <gvy> just as a side note from someone who've seen/done that way too often :]
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| 07:40 | ldm
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| 07:40 | <ogra> sorry, but i dont agree ldm is written for a purpose and fulfills this since three releases
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| 07:40 | <gvy> userlist seems quite critical at TS deployments I've seen (and in LDAP-based standalone WS deployments as well)
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| 07:41 | ogra, well I'm exactly about different purposes
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| 07:41 | <ogra> 1.5 years is quite some time to file a whishlist bug about missing fetures
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| 07:41 | <gvy> nevermind, it's rather a surprise for me, not moaning about how bad all is :-)
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| 07:41 | I'll try to
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| 07:41 | <ogra> you are free to use XDMCP isf you want to and put time into implementing te old ltspfs if you want to
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| 07:41 | <gvy> actually just got another project seemingly off my hands to go and sub ltsp-devel@
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| 07:42 | <ogra> https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/ldm-greeter
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| 07:42 | <gvy> ogra, well seems like a colleague will go that way ;-)
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| 07:42 | <ogra> feel free to contribute features you miss
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| 07:42 | <gvy> ogra, thanks, hopefully
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| 07:43 | it's just nobody happens to like python here. :)
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| 07:43 | <ogra> thats the new code for the october release
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| 07:43 | its C
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| 07:43 | <gvy> ah,sorry
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| 07:43 | you've mentioned
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| 07:43 | <ogra> for ltspfs you will need to do python
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| 07:43 | all the scripts are py scripts ...
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| 07:43 | <gvy> might provoce another friendof mine to look into that, too
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| 07:43 | <ogra> (beyond the udev stuff which is shell)
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| 07:44 | <gvy> er... s/c/k/ s/dof/d of/
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| 07:44 | <ogra> just point me to the bzr branches with the changes and i'll gratefully merge ;)
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| 07:44 | (a s long as they are not insane indeed ;))
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| 07:44 | <Guaraldo> hi, buddies!
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| 07:45 | * gvy murmurs something about civilized world using git but hides quickly. :) | |
| 07:46 | <ogra> gvy, you should really think about how you handle devs ... telling someone the project he works on since 2 years isnt mature but not filing whishlist bugs and then moaning about the versioning system a project choose isnt a good start
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| 07:47 | <gvy> ogra, weeeell, hence the mention above on "moaning" and "purpose" ;-)
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| 07:47 | I know that kind of start very well, be patient :-)
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| 07:48 | actually working with Linux since 1998 and maintaining packages in ALT Linux since 2001
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| 07:48 | so basically have seen that enough times (and did myself a couple of them(
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| 07:49 | <artista_frustrad> ogra, is there a tutorial on how to customise the ldm screen ?
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| 07:49 | <str4nd> ' Option "XkbLayout" "fi,ru" ' working if I put it to (kb section of) /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf?
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| 07:49 | <ogra> me too, thats why i work for ubuntu there you wont see it ...
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| 07:49 | str4nd, nope, add it to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
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| 07:49 | <str4nd> ogra: :o
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| 07:50 | <ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz has all supported parameters
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| 07:50 | <gvy> ogra, thanks to your replies, my plan for now looks like: try ldm/$new_scheme, if not, fallback to lbus/$old_scheme; in the meantime, file an FR on ldm re look/feel/lists_my_honey ;-)
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| 07:50 | <str4nd> yeah, thanks! \o/ \o_
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| 07:50 | (or thanks again ;))
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| 07:50 | <ogra> str4nd, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf is rewrtten during boot ;)
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| 07:50 | <str4nd> ogra: :P
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| 07:50 | <gvy> ogra, well it's not about ubuntu or another distro, it's about people
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| 07:51 | <ogra> gvy, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug :)
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| 07:51 | gvy, as i said sbalneav is working on an Xatoms based transport layer ...
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| 07:51 | <gvy> i'm actually quite hostile towards ubuntu's artifical sense of humanity since after lurking/participating for quite some time in sounder@ it was awfully clear to me that way...
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| 07:52 | <ogra> so the underlying transport wont matter anymore
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| 07:52 | <gvy> but that's rather my personal trouble, of course
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| 07:52 | <ogra> shuld be included in the october release
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| 07:52 | <artista_frustrad> can anyone tell me if ltsp manager and tcm are going to show up in debian any time soon ??
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| 07:52 | <ogra> artista_frustrad, ltsp-manager is non existent yet
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| 07:52 | <gvy> ogra, well i hope our CTO will be able to find some time and maybe help -- he's quite keen in X too
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| 07:52 | <ogra> artista_frustrad, there is only a gui but no backend for it
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| 07:52 | <gvy> ogra, once again thanks
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| 07:52 | * gvy continues to ML archives | |
| 07:53 | <ogra> gvy, cool :)
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| 07:53 | artista_frustrad, i suspect the ubuntu packages of TCM should work in debian, there is nothing non-standard in them
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| 07:54 | <artista_frustrad> ogra, is there a way I can help the development of those apps ??
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| 07:54 | who do I have to talk to ?
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| 07:55 | <ogra> artista_frustrad, TCM was taken over by pete savage (cbx33 in #edubuntu or #ubuntu-devel)
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| 07:55 | ltsp-manager is on my list for october
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| 07:56 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: is there a place in these scripts to shut off the building of the LDM so we can t-shoot the basic bits?
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| 07:56 | <ogra> i wanted to have it in feisty, but then decided to have a set of proper python modules for it first ... so that went into feisty ... now we have python-ltsp to attach *any* kind of gui to
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| 07:56 | fxrsliberty, ltsp-buiöd-client doesnt build ldm ...
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| 07:57 | look at the 000-basic-configuration plugins
| |
| 07:57 | they have the package lists ... drop ldm from there and it wont get used/installed in the chroot
| |
| 07:59 | * ogra goes back to implement nfs4 in ltsps initramfs | |
| 07:59 | <fxrsliberty> it almost sounds like if I can get pxeboot going an build this client i'm all done?
| |
| 07:59 | <ogra> well, you will need some additional stuff :)
| |
| 07:59 | like generating the X config
| |
| 08:00 | and setting up various things ...
| |
| 08:00 | <fxrsliberty> that's the replacement for lts.conf ?
| |
| 08:00 | <ogra> well, lts.conf is still there ... but the xserver in ubuntu has a config tool that gets run if the variables are not set in lts.conf ...
| |
| 08:01 | debian has a similar but different mechanism ...
| |
| 08:01 | the ltsp-client-setup initscript is responsible for that
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| 08:03 | <cyberorg> ogra: we got sax2 -a that autogenerates xorg.conf, so does each client hav their own xorg.conf? and where do they go?
| |
| 08:03 | <ogra> where the X server expects them :)
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| 08:04 | nf1 has quit IRC | |
| 08:04 | * ogra takes a long breath for a longer explanation | |
| 08:04 | <cyberorg> /etc/xorg.conf, so what happens when another user logs in with different x setup?
| |
| 08:04 | <ogra> you chroot gets exported readonly to the world ...
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| 08:04 | if initramfs mounts it it wil still be readonly
| |
| 08:05 | <cyberorg> so changed /etc/xorg.conf resides in ram?
| |
| 08:05 | <ogra> if you want to write to files you have to create a tmpfs mount for them
| |
| 08:05 | thats what we do in ltsp5
| |
| 08:05 | look at the bind_mounts function in the ltsp-cient-setup initscript
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| 08:05 | <cyberorg> ok
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| 08:05 | mhterres has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:06 | <ogra> it should work like that on every modern linux, you should be able to just copy that for your initscripts
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| 08:06 | <mhterres> morning
| |
| 08:06 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: is this the right 000-basic? /downloads/feisty-ltsp/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu
| |
| 08:08 | <ogra> thats what Ubuntu uses currently, yes, te one for debian is in the Debian subdir
| |
| 08:09 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: you are a very nice man I wish I could shake your hand!
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| 08:09 | nf1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:09 | <ogra> fxrsliberty, i'm sure you will be able to at some point in our lives :)
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| 08:10 | <fxrsliberty> ;)
| |
| 08:10 | <ogra> sbalneav and jammcq work hard on convincing mark to send me to the next FISL :)
| |
| 08:10 | and i'll be in portland in july ...
| |
| 08:11 | at OSCON and ubuntulive
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| 08:11 | or if you are around spain next month you can find me in seville :)
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| 08:12 | Avatara has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:13 | <fxrsliberty> well i work for a poor little school district here in NH just about an our south of David Trask so I won't be in Spain any time soon ;)
| |
| 08:13 | <ogra> but probably in portland :)
| |
| 08:13 | <fxrsliberty> could be!
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| 08:13 | Portland Maine?
| |
| 08:14 | <ogra> i also heard rumours about a ubuntu conference in boston in autumn
| |
| 08:14 | oregon i think, not sure
| |
| 08:14 | http://www.ubuntulive.com/ yup, says oregon
| |
| 08:14 | <fxrsliberty> i believe jammcq said so to
| |
| 08:14 | <Guaraldo> ogra: And what about FISL 2008 ???
| |
| 08:14 | <gvy> ogra, btw colleague was surprised by overall cleanness of plugin system for ltsp5 -- it required almost no modifications (~8.5k patch, half of which is specific), just plugins on an rpm-based platform
| |
| 08:15 | <Guaraldo> ogra: Would you came???
| |
| 08:15 | <ogra> we were thinking abut attaching a ltsp hackfest to that conf
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| 08:15 | <gvy> although there are several snippets to be filed; hope to get to it
| |
| 08:15 | <ogra> Guaraldo, i'd love to ... lets see if i can get my boss to pay for it ... as i said, jammcq and sbalneav already work on convincing him ;)
| |
| 08:16 | <gvy> ogra, btw what country are you from? there's a free software conference/expo in Kiev, Ukraine at the end of october
| |
| 08:16 | <Guaraldo> ogra: It would be wanderfull...
| |
| 08:16 | <ogra> gvy, cool, yeah, the plugin system is one of the better things in 5 :)
| |
| 08:16 | <gvy> http://conference.osdn.org.ua/en/about/
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| 08:16 | <ogra> gvy, i'm in germany :)
| |
| 08:17 | <gvy> you're welcome too :-)
| |
| 08:17 | there's nice ukrainian borshch over here. :)
| |
| 08:17 | <ogra> but there are some schools in georgia and ukraine that use either edubuntu or ubuntu woth ltsp ...
| |
| 08:17 | so it might be possible to convince our marketing team to sned me to hold a talk ;)
| |
| 08:17 | *send
| |
| 08:18 | <gvy> yep (two friends of mine worked with ltsp3 -- you might have heard of ltsp.ru; we've mirrored it for folks' convenience)
| |
| 08:18 | <ogra> nice :)
| |
| 08:18 | i love the east ... i was in wasaw and lodz recently ... but not more eastern ...
| |
| 08:19 | <-- drives a ural ;)
| |
| 08:19 | *an
| |
| 08:19 | <gvy> ogra, ugh, then you might be interested in summer events in Russia/Belarus
| |
| 08:19 | <ogra> irbit is near kiev, right ?
| |
| 08:20 | <gvy> .by one is specifically "european": http://lvee.org.by/index.php/TitlePageEn
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| 08:20 | irbit? hm, there's Irpin (or Irpen) town near
| |
| 08:20 | <ogra> hmm
| |
| 08:21 | <gvy> and lvee2005 was *sweet* with their fine nature and fine talks :)
| |
| 08:21 | but sorry, i'm distracting myself and spamming the channel :(
| |
| 08:22 | <ogra> me too :)
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| 08:27 | Blinny has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:28 | nf1 has quit IRC | |
| 08:30 | irule has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:31 | <gvy> ogra, filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/109270
| |
| 08:32 | <ogra> heh, proprietary bug silo ... oh man :)
| |
| 08:33 | btw, the new implementation is way more robust :)
| |
| 08:34 | its just not supporting sniaffable communication mechanisms
| |
| 08:35 | <gvy> ogra, i'm *much* used to calling things their names ;)
| |
| 08:35 | actually, bug dup autofinder is really nice idea, yep
| |
| 08:35 | <ogra> well, ask sbalneav which implementation he likes more :)
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| 08:35 | nf1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:35 | <ogra> well, LP will be opensourced at some point ...
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| 08:36 | <gvy> as mentioned -- i suspect the mail isn't getting either this way or that... i've never heard back from sbalneav on two mails
| |
| 08:36 | <ogra> i'll talk to him
| |
| 08:36 | <gvy> should write from gmail probably
| |
| 08:36 | <ogra> (and sub him to the bug :)
| |
| 08:36 | <gvy> thanks; From: was mike@osdn.org.ua, Date: was last autumn
| |
| 08:37 | <ogra> subscribed him ...
| |
| 08:37 | he should also show up soon ... its time :)
| |
| 08:38 | <gvy> ogra, just finished sub to ltsp-developer@ -- hope that would help communicating :)
| |
| 08:38 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 08:38 | eve though i'm not very active on that one ... IRC is simply faster :)
| |
| 08:39 | <gvy> yup; but less archived
| |
| 08:39 | although lists.sf.net were 500s on me on the first attempt to browse relevant recent (erm) threads
| |
| 08:39 | gave in on the second. :)
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| 08:41 | <cyberorg> ogra: what are the disadvantages of not using ldm and using xdmcp apart from security?
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| 08:41 | <ogra> security should be your biggest concern ...
| |
| 08:42 | at least with XDMCP ...
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| 08:42 | Axel711 has joined #LTSP | |
| 08:42 | <cyberorg> ok, other than that? :)
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| 08:42 | <ogra> anyone attached to the network segment you are on can do keylogging or take screenshots from your X traffic
| |
| 08:42 | *without *any* tools*
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| 08:43 | <Axel711> hello.
| |
| 08:43 | <ogra> so you could as well go without passwords
| |
| 08:43 | and leave the nfs mount readwrite
| |
| 08:43 | <Axel711> i managed to get a lstp 4.2 up and running
| |
| 08:43 | a client is booting via pxe
| |
| 08:43 | i just can not login from the client.
| |
| 08:44 | i chrooted to the lstp root and added a user
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| 08:44 | <cyberorg> i thought there were feature that would be lacking if xdmcp is used instead of ldm
| |
| 08:44 | <ogra> Axel711, thas wrong
| |
| 08:44 | *thats
| |
| 08:44 | <Axel711> i still can not login
| |
| 08:44 | yes?
| |
| 08:44 | <ogra> login always happens on the server, you dont need any accounts in the chroot
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| 08:44 | <Axel711> ok
| |
| 08:45 | <ogra> (and shouldnt have any unless for debugging)
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| 08:45 | <Axel711> i did not see any ssh thong in the auth log
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| 08:45 | <ogra> 4.2 doesnt use shh
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| 08:45 | <Axel711> ok
| |
| 08:45 | how do i see the login try?
| |
| 08:45 | <ogra> it uses XDMCP of the running display manager on the server
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| 08:46 | so check the logs of gdm/kdm, and the users ~/.xsession-errors
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| 08:46 | <Axel711> use does not have that file
| |
| 08:46 | user
| |
| 08:46 | i check the gdm logs
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| 08:47 | thanks so fare
| |
| 08:47 | <ogra> are you sure its 4.2 ?
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| 08:47 | <Axel711> not really :) :)
| |
| 08:47 | i check
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| 08:47 | <ogra> how did you install it ?
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| 08:47 | <Axel711> ubunti apt-get
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| 08:47 | <ogra> like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall ?
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| 08:48 | pscheie has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:48 | <ogra> check "If you change the IP data..." at the bottom ;)
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| 08:48 | <Axel711> ok
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| 08:48 | <pscheie> morning all
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| 08:49 | nicoAMG has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:50 | <Axel711> ltsp-server-standalone 5.0.7
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| 08:50 | <ogra> yeah, thats obviously ubuntu feisty ltsp5 :)
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| 08:50 | <Axel711> yes
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| 08:50 | <ogra> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys should help you
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| 08:50 | <Axel711> ist version 5, never saw any docu
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| 08:51 | <ogra> you shouldnt need more than that page ... unless you start to tweak stuff through the lts.conf file ... but then the old docs are just good
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| 08:52 | <Axel711> ok. i eat that page now
| |
| 08:52 | thanks
| |
| 08:53 | <ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/ has a list of parameters and an example lts.conf
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| 08:53 | <cyberorg> ogra: are ltsp 4.2 lts.conf configuration all compatible with ltsp 5?
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| 08:53 | <ogra> not all of them, no
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| 08:53 | there are plenty of spaces where it wouldnt make sense
| |
| 08:53 | <cyberorg> ok
| |
| 08:54 | <ogra> there many things that are detected automatically yu shouldnt override because the automation does the right thing
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| 08:55 | i.e. ps2 mice are always used and detected ... no need to offer a parameter to specify them additionally
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| 08:56 | ltsp5 works very well without any lts.conf ... while ltsp 4.2 relied on the settings in it ...
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| 08:56 | <cyberorg> yeah
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| 08:56 | even xorg works well without xorg.conf :)
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| 08:56 | <ogra> right
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| 08:57 | we stole that from the liveCD ;)
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| 08:57 | sbalneav has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:57 | <ogra> so as long as the ubuntu liveCD works we can be sure X will work in ltsp as well :)
| |
| 08:57 | !s
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| 08:57 | <ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:57 | <sbalneav> Morning ogra!
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| 08:57 | <ogra> sbalneav, nfs4 doesnt like me :/
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| 08:58 | <sbalneav> Ah, problems?
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| 08:58 | <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17212/
| |
| 08:58 | look at that one
| |
| 08:58 | half of my tmpfs mounts work, others dont
| |
| 08:58 | and i cant find a scheme
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| 08:59 | <sbalneav> Hmmmm
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| 08:59 | OK, here's a quiestion for you.
| |
| 08:59 | Howabout you make a quick fiddle in the initramfs, and change the mount to an NFS3 mount.
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| 08:59 | <ogra> apart from that little thing, nfs4 nfsroot is implemented in initramfs now ...
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| 08:59 | <sbalneav> See if that changes things.
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| 08:59 | <ogra> well, thats what we had before
| |
| 09:00 | indeed that works
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| 09:00 | <sbalneav> OK
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| 09:00 | <ogra> i want v4 for gutsy
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| 09:00 | <sbalneav> Then the problem's in the VFS layer in the kernel.
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| 09:00 | <ogra> so we can offer encryption in gutsy+1
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| 09:00 | <gvy> sbalneav, ! :)
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| 09:01 | <sbalneav> Both the V4 and TMPFS will be interacting via VFS, so probably something in the kernel.
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| 09:01 | <nf1> Does anyone have experience with Softphones under LTSP clients?
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| 09:01 | <sbalneav> ogra: hey, quick question, was standard Mozilla dropped altogether from Feisty?
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| 09:01 | <ogra> yeah
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| 09:02 | sbalneav, should be in universe ...
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| 09:02 | <sbalneav> Hm
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| 09:02 | <ogra> it was punted to universe in dapper iirc
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| 09:02 | <sbalneav> I'll have to check.
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| 09:02 | <gvy> sbalneav, just told ogra about ltspfs-related patches/rpm specs that i've mailed to you last autumn (from mike@osdn.org.ua)
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| 09:03 | sbalneav, hopefully at least you've got those mails
| |
| 09:03 | (i've got no replies)
| |
| 09:03 | <sbalneav> Yeah, I never had a chance to do anything with them
| |
| 09:03 | <gvy> ah
| |
| 09:03 | <sbalneav> We've spent time trying to get Fedora to include LTSP5 directly.
| |
| 09:04 | I don't do ANY work anymore on LTSP 4
| |
| 09:04 | It's passe :)
| |
| 09:04 | <ogra> does anybody ?
| |
| 09:04 | :)
| |
| 09:04 | <gvy> we're spending time to include 5 in ALT Linux. :)
| |
| 09:04 | <ogra> cool
| |
| 09:04 | make sure to add its plugins to the upstream code
| |
| 09:04 | <gvy> of course!
| |
| 09:04 | <ogra> :)
| |
| 09:05 | <gvy> selfish forks suck bitterly, as a rule
| |
| 09:05 | <ogra> yeah, but thats the biggest danger we have atm
| |
| 09:05 | <gvy> (if it wasn't bsdl code commercialized and polished up)
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| 09:05 | <ogra> people who go the easy way and just build a monolithic script :)
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| 09:05 | <gvy> ogra, hm, seems to me like ltsp5 has the lowest fork potential, no?
| |
| 09:06 | <ogra> well
| |
| 09:06 | <gvy> 3 was plain hideous re build env, 4 was... well... not exactly there
| |
| 09:06 | 5 seems much better for a maintainer
| |
| 09:06 | <ogra> yeah
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| 09:06 | nf1 has quit IRC | |
| 09:07 | <ogra> but i'm looking forward to the day we can wipe the tarballs off the webserver :)
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| 09:07 | that means every distro has at least something basic :)
| |
| 09:07 | <gvy> there's a thing called "upstream"... still basically i concur, of course
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| 09:10 | nf1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:13 | <Axel711> orga: somehow, i still can not login. wich daemon does the auth? what ist so lowest point to debug login=?
| |
| 09:14 | <ogra> openssh-server does the auth
| |
| 09:14 | make sure its runing
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| 09:14 | <Axel711> so there should show up somethink in the auth log?
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| 09:14 | <ogra> ltsp5 doesnt need X on the server anymore
| |
| 09:14 | <Axel711> port 22
| |
| 09:14 | ?
| |
| 09:14 | <ogra> right
| |
| 09:14 | auth.log should show the attempts
| |
| 09:15 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:15 | <jammcq> g'morning kids
| |
| 09:15 | <Axel711> with the user name i use at the thin clien? then it does nor show up.
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| 09:15 | <gvy> Father Jamm, g'day!
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| 09:16 | <jammcq> hey
| |
| 09:16 | <cyberorg> hi jammcq
| |
| 09:16 | <Axel711> all right, for security i use an unusual ssh port :)
| |
| 09:16 | damit
| |
| 09:16 | nf1 has quit IRC | |
| 09:17 | <ogra> ah
| |
| 09:17 | fix that :)
| |
| 09:17 | thats feisty ?
| |
| 09:17 | <Axel711> doing a quick port shift now
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| 09:17 | <ogra> it supports a parameter for unusual ssh ports ;)
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| 09:18 | <Axel711> ah, pls tell me where
| |
| 09:18 | <gvy> Axel711, might want to look on knockd or a few other implementations of portknocking; or look into openssh-4.6's tunable auth mechanisms for different logins/nets
| |
| 09:18 | <cliebow_> jammcq!
| |
| 09:19 | <jammcq> hey chucky cheese
| |
| 09:19 | <Guaraldo> hi, jammcq... How are you?
| |
| 09:19 | <ogra> Axel711, in your lts.conf set SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT=2894 to get it to use port 2894 :)
| |
| 09:19 | (in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf )
| |
| 09:20 | * ogra takes a break | |
| 09:20 | <jammcq> Guaraldo: hey Luiz
| |
| 09:21 | plamengr has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:24 | <plamengr> Hello all :) Can you recommend me a softphone to use with LTSP5.0 and Debian sid?
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| 09:24 | <gvy> running as local app, of course?
| |
| 09:25 | <plamengr> can local apps already be set up?
| |
| 09:25 | in LTSP5.0
| |
| 09:26 | we tried softphones as normal apps from the server like MozPhone which worked, but the quality was low
| |
| 09:27 | we tried also Twinkle, but we didn't succeed with a normal conversation
| |
| 09:27 | <cliebow_> fxrsliberty, perhaps you could visit during ltsp-by-the=sea in Maine?
| |
| 09:28 | <fxrsliberty> when is that?
| |
| 09:29 | <plamengr> with MozPhone at least we understood what the other was saying :)
| |
| 09:29 | it'll be great if someone had experience with softphones
| |
| 09:30 | <gvy> plamengr, from what i've heard it's mostly local/remote app issue with TS
| |
| 09:30 | only then it comes to softphone code itself...
| |
| 09:30 | <fxrsliberty> cliebow_: when is that?
| |
| 09:31 | <gvy> that is, folks seem to have noticed that soundserver over lan hurts worse than less competent echo suppression
| |
| 09:31 | <cliebow_> end of ooctober if it happens
| |
| 09:33 | <ogra> plamengr, http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Edgy/HOWTO:_PulseAudio ... debian etch's ltsp5 is as old as edgys, so that might work
| |
| 09:34 | gvy, pulse in feisty is just awesome ... all thats missinfg now is a fine lossless compression fo the tcp transfer :)
| |
| 09:34 | <gvy> ogra, mmm... we have quite enthusiastic PA maintainer
| |
| 09:35 | * ogra hasnt found an app yet that doesnt work with the alsa emulation layer of pulse | |
| 09:35 | <gvy> but have yet to see working pulse on terminal
| |
| 09:35 | actually think that'll be default in our setup (hopefully)
| |
| 09:35 | <ogra> its default in 5.0.7 in feisty
| |
| 09:36 | <gvy> stop, but those might be docs for Novell Edgy! :)
| |
| 09:36 | <ogra> debian will switch as soon as we do the code merge (this week or so) and they pull it into sid
| |
| 09:36 | novell edgy ?
| |
| 09:36 | what would that be *g*
| |
| 09:36 | <gvy> novell/wiki/edgy
| |
| 09:36 | <ogra> well, to my knowledge novell still uses rpm ;)
| |
| 09:36 | its for ubuntu edgy
| |
| 09:37 | <gvy> ogra, a couple more words on merge: hope it will be announced on ltsp-dev?
| |
| 09:37 | <ogra> the guy is just a novell developer
| |
| 09:37 | <gvy> ML
| |
| 09:37 | <ogra> we usually just merge the code ...
| |
| 09:37 | if you need an announcement we can do one :)
| |
| 09:37 | <cliebow_> gvy:dont know of a town named stryj?
| |
| 09:37 | <gvy> branches of different developers?
| |
| 09:37 | cliebow, yep
| |
| 09:37 | westerm ukraine
| |
| 09:37 | <ogra> debian and ubuntu branches
| |
| 09:37 | <gvy> *western
| |
| 09:37 | <cliebow_> my dad was born there
| |
| 09:37 | <gvy> cliebow, wow
| |
| 09:37 | <ogra> there are not more ...
| |
| 09:38 | <cliebow_> 1911..he's long gone..
| |
| 09:38 | <gvy> ogra, ah, tnx
| |
| 09:38 | <ogra> all ubuntu development ends up in my branch, all debian devlopment ends up in vagrants branch
| |
| 09:38 | i use to merge the code after ubuntu had an release
| |
| 09:38 | <gvy> seems like Yeltsin's gone today
| |
| 09:38 | <ogra> this time we even had both a release :)
| |
| 09:38 | he is ?
| |
| 09:39 | <gvy> cliebow, well, you're welcome to our autumn conference just as well: http://conference.osdn.org.ua/en/about/
| |
| 09:39 | <cliebow_> ill look it over....thanks!
| |
| 09:39 | sepski has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:39 | <ogra> i thought vodka has conservating features :)
| |
| 09:40 | <gvy> ogra, btw grats; i've mirrored etchy/feist isos (i know, i know, but pools are not my job) on ftp.linux.kiev.ua -- it's fast inside .ua :)
| |
| 09:40 | <cliebow_> i spnsor ltsp by the sea..in late october..
| |
| 09:40 | <ogra> gvy, as long as there are no other distros with code branches i didnt find it overly important to announce branch merges
| |
| 09:40 | <gvy> right after upgrading the server with another 4 spindles and 8-sata mobo
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| 09:40 | tsurko has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:40 | <ogra> apart from that bzr is build to allow constant merging
| |
| 09:41 | <gvy> ogra, thx
| |
| 09:41 | <ogra> gvy, oh, thanks, we can need every small bit of bandwith
| |
| 09:41 | <gvy> cliebow, ouch, i'm a bit too dumb on dates, sorry
| |
| 09:41 | ogra, well it's on the mirrors wiki
| |
| 09:41 | <ogra> seems we very much doubled the userbase again ... the servers couldnt cope with the release
| |
| 09:41 | muh2000_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:41 | <plamengr> do you have "well working" :) experience with softphone on terminals, I and nf1 have tested linphone, Twinke, and all sound metallic
| |
| 09:42 | <ogra> we had to put up a static frontpage on ubuntu.com :)
| |
| 09:42 | <tsurko> twinkle sounds terrible
| |
| 09:42 | linphone sounds metallic
| |
| 09:42 | <pscheie> cliebow_: are you doing ltsp-by-the-sea this Oct. also?
| |
| 09:43 | <ogra> plamengr, did you try ekiga ?
| |
| 09:43 | <plamengr> with MozPhone we understood each other, but the quality was very low
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| 09:44 | <cliebow_> pscheie, generally i have sponsored it when in Maine...
| |
| 09:44 | <plamengr> we'll try if Ekiga can be set up with our Asterisk server, I think that you need to connect to the Ekiga server
| |
| 09:45 | nf1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:46 | <tsurko> ekiga freezes
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| 09:46 | <nf1> Hi, I got IRC on the client now :)
| |
| 09:46 | <ogra> plamengr, canonical uses it for its company stuff on an asterisk server
| |
| 09:46 | <nf1> yeeah, like tsurko says, the Ekiga freezes
| |
| 09:46 | <ogra> i'm 100% positive ekiga and asterisk work fine tgether
| |
| 09:46 | nicoAMG has quit IRC | |
| 09:47 | <ogra> (at least with the setup we have in the ubuntu datacenter)
| |
| 09:50 | while nfs4 and initramfs dont work fine together ...
| |
| 09:50 | * ogra kicks nfs4 in the guts ... with run-up ... | |
| 09:50 | gvy is now known as nfs4 | |
| 09:50 | * nfs4 kicks back! | |
| 09:50 | nfs4 is now known as gvy | |
| 09:50 | <sbalneav> I've also used Ekiga, and it's worked fine for me as well.
| |
| 09:51 | In fact, ogra and I have talked VIA ekiga
| |
| 09:51 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 09:51 | <sbalneav> Something we should do more often
| |
| 09:51 | <tsurko> sbalneav, on thin clinet?
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| 09:51 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 09:51 | <sbalneav> tsurko: Not on a thin client, no.
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| 09:51 | <ogra> my laptop died last time ... bad omen ... i didnt use ekiga anymore after that :)
| |
| 09:52 | <tsurko> okay, ot definitely works woth asterisk
| |
| 09:52 | but we can't get it working on thon clinet
| |
| 09:52 | <nf1> sbalneav, we try to use softphones on the thinclients for GSM Gateway
| |
| 09:52 | <ogra> (no thet i'D be superstitious ... whistle)
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| 09:52 | <sbalneav> nf1: there was an article on that in Linux Journal last year.
| |
| 09:52 | using kphone.
| |
| 09:53 | <tsurko> it's about ltsp4 and LBE
| |
| 09:53 | <nf1> sbalneav, yes, but with LBE and 4.2 that's too complicated. We want to use LTSP5
| |
| 09:53 | <ogra> with sshfs mounts in ldm in gutsy, localapps should become easy
| |
| 09:53 | i want at least that bit by october ...
| |
| 09:54 | the desktop integration can well go into the april release, but we should have the basics in by october
| |
| 09:55 | <nf1> so in early may we can use localapps? or in october?
| |
| 09:55 | <ogra> you can *use* them by october with manual setup ...
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| 09:55 | you can use them with simply checking a checkbox in your favorite destop menu editor by april
| |
| 09:56 | <nf1> april 2008 right?
| |
| 09:56 | <ogra> (manual setup will mean to install the app in the chroot and write a small script that starts it)
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| 09:56 | yes
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| 09:56 | <nf1> manual setup sounds great, october not so :)
| |
| 09:57 | <ogra> well, you cn do it yourself now already
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| 09:57 | <sbalneav> nf1: You could do local apps now, depending on how much manual fiddling you're willing to do :)
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| 09:57 | muh2000 has quit IRC | |
| 09:57 | <ogra> you need to change some code though
| |
| 09:58 | install nfs-common in the chroot and change the default fstab in the ltsp-client-setup initscript to mount /home from the server ...
| |
| 09:58 | install openssh-server in the chroot and make sure every user has a valid key in /home and an authorized_keys file
| |
| 09:59 | cyberorg has quit IRC | |
| 09:59 | <nf1> ogra, I have another statement and question. We are group of people in Bulgaria who are using LTSP and implementing it in schools mostly. LTSP is great, we're using it since version 4.1. Where can we find information of how can we help the project (none uf us is a programmer though)
| |
| 09:59 | <ogra> set up ldap or nis to have the passwords available on te client
| |
| 09:59 | now write a script that executes your local app and attacheds it to DISPLAY=:6 on the client
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| 10:00 | if you now do: ssh $USER@client <localapp>
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| 10:00 | you will have it running :)
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| 10:00 | <gvy> nf1, usually it helps to read up on docs and prune them (at least mark what's appropriate for what versions, put timestamps in, etc)
| |
| 10:01 | <ogra> nf1, well, ltsp5 could need a lot more documentation ...
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| 10:01 | <gvy> since docs are crucial for non-programmers and after one has found a way through them, one usually has some image of what's worth it and what's crap by now
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| 10:01 | <ogra> no development knwoledge required to help ;)
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| 10:01 | <gvy> at least for some /short/ time...
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| 10:01 | gonzaloaf_laptop has quit IRC | |
| 10:02 | <nf1> What kind of documentation? and in what format?
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| 10:03 | <ogra> wiki should be fine
| |
| 10:03 | all kind of docs, for special cases like the above one :)
| |
| 10:03 | or just for people wanting to know how it works
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| 10:04 | <nf1> ok, well document what we manage to do with LTSP :). How can we upload it? reg on wiki.ltsp.org?
| |
| 10:04 | <ogra> there are docs, pretty much everything is already described on wiki.ltsp.org ... but they all could need more flesh and probably better wording
| |
| 10:05 | and since ltsp5 development really goes fast there are often new features that ed up undocumented :)
| |
| 10:05 | * ogra makes a note to document SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT somewhere :) | |
| 10:05 | <nf1> how can I keep track ot these new features?
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| 10:05 | <gvy> nf1, wiki is fine indeed; yes, reg
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| 10:06 | nf1, e.g. here?
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| 10:06 | (annotating existing docs as "v4/v4.2/v5 actual" is very helpful too)
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| 10:06 | <ogra> for ubuntu we put them as specifications into launchpad.net ... apart from that IRC is your best bet
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| 10:06 | <nf1> :) here's good but what if I'm unable to be in IRC for like a week
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| 10:06 | <Axel711> orga: thx a lot for the ssh tip. Now x is left, but need zo go.
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| 10:06 | <ogra> in launchpad you can usually track implementation status then ...
| |
| 10:06 | <nf1> what's the page in launchpad?
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| 10:07 | <ogra> Axel711, i'm here every day :)
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| 10:07 | <Axel711> :) cu.
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| 10:07 | <ogra> nf1, https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs that would be my personal speclist
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| 10:07 | Axel711 has quit IRC | |
| 10:07 | <ogra> look for thin client or ltsp in the list
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| 10:08 | sbalneav has such a page as well there
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| 10:08 | <sbalneav> Yes I do
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| 10:08 | <nf1> ogra, thank you very much. We'll try to contribute with what we can.
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| 10:08 | <ogra> hmm, we should have a feature to make an intersection of two speclists ...
| |
| 10:09 | that would get you all ltsp specs from your and my list :)
| |
| 10:10 | <cliebow_> ogra:you have a central repository for ltsp5 docs?
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| 10:10 | <ogra> only the code tree :/
| |
| 10:11 | i usually add new variables to lts-parameters.tgz ... and write amnpages where required, but thats about it ...
| |
| 10:11 | apart from that i have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 10:12 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices
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| 10:12 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins
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| 10:12 | * cliebow_ cliebow pastes this.. | |
| 10:13 | <ogra> oh207, and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
| |
| 10:13 | meh
| |
| 10:14 | the edubuntu handbook should go back on the web as well, not sure someone is working on that
| |
| 10:14 | its currently only available in yelp format in edubuntu
| |
| 10:15 | but it has a lot of valuable info about ltsp5
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| 10:15 | <cliebow_> great: ill do some 'more' reading..
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| 10:15 | <ogra> most is scotties work :)
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| 10:15 | jsgotangco has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:17 | <cliebow_> ogra:know of anyone passing dhcp to ibooks using win--dhcp?
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| 10:18 | <ogra> nope
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| 10:18 | <cliebow_> pete wrote the little blurb..maybe ill tag him,
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| 10:19 | <ogra> i dont think he has any ibook experience
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| 10:20 | or ppc generally
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| 10:21 | tiagovaz has quit IRC | |
| 10:21 | <cliebow_> k..it is so close..works on a g3 bondi not an ibook..
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| 10:37 | <str4nd> Yarr, Where is some Good LDM Themes®?
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| 10:38 | <gvy> guess in Central Repo for LTSP5 Docs
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| 10:38 | <ogra> only in the package ... write some ;)
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| 10:39 | the shipped ones are in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/ in the installed system
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| 10:39 | <str4nd> :)
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| 10:39 | <ogra> i'll happily add any theme you send :)
| |
| 10:39 | (or create an ldm-themes package)
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| 10:39 | <str4nd> Hmm, ok. :)
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| 10:40 | (looking it tomorrow)
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| 10:40 | <ogra> but note that the gui part is in the middle of a full rewrite ...
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| 10:40 | the theme engine might change
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| 10:41 | <str4nd> yep...
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| 10:41 | <ogra> and i'm looking to find a QT dev to have an optional QT gui as well
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| 10:43 | <str4nd> Megant_: Interested about QT?
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| 10:43 | <ogra> actually thats a very good first timer project ...
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| 10:43 | the greeter is essentialy only a fullscreen window with one single input field
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| 10:44 | and it only needs to drop out username and passwd in an initial implementation
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| 10:44 | should be doable with 50-100 lines of code ...
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| 10:46 | <Megant_> hmm, a greeter which uses qt?
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| 10:48 | tsurc has quit IRC | |
| 10:48 | <ogra> yep
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| 10:48 | nf1 has quit IRC | |
| 10:49 | <ogra> as an option for kde users who dont want to see gtk widgets :)
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| 10:49 | no KDE bindings though ... i just got rid of all the gnome stuff from the current one to only have plain gtk :)
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| 10:51 | <Megant_> yeah
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| 10:59 | <ogra> OH.. WOW !!
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| 10:59 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-ltsp/+bug/109303
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| 10:59 | somebody is using python-ltsp :)
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| 10:59 | * ogra dances | |
| 11:00 | <jsgotangco> heh
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| 11:00 | <Lumiere> ogra: lol debug oops
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| 11:02 | <ogra> well, its showing that someone uses it ... even its through a bug
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| 11:04 | (i didnt expect that at all yet ... i didnt advertise python-ltsp much yet)
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| 11:30 | <cliebow_> ogra:perhaps you should elaborate a little
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| 11:31 | fernando1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:32 | <ogra> cliebow, well, python-ltsp is only a python module framework nothing uses yet
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| 11:32 | i didnt advertise it beyond this channel :)
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| 11:32 | <cliebow_> ok
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| 11:33 | <ogra> so i'm quite happy to see people finding it and shaking out some bugs before we really use it (in ltsp-manager)
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| 12:12 | * gvy is away: ~ | |
| 12:12 | gvy is now known as [gvy] | |
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| 12:12 | <[gvy]> bb folks
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| 12:12 | thanks a lot, ogra
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| 12:53 | <gonzaloaf_work> how to install x11vnc or in general applications on the clients? in ltsp5?
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| 12:54 | <cliebow__> gonzaloaf_work: there is a wikipage
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| 12:54 | <gonzaloaf_work> ok
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| 12:55 | tiagovaz has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:55 | <cliebow_> it scrolled off.. hang a sec
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| 12:55 | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VnconLTSPClients
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| 12:56 | big O in on there
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| 12:56 | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLTSPClients
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| 12:56 | balls!
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| 12:56 | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
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| 12:57 | meh 8~)
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| 13:06 | <cliebow__> Teach2.py
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| 13:15 | <Q-FUN1> howdy! one aspect of LTSP I'm having troubles understanding: is PXE support actually needed or does plain old Etherboot work?
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| 13:15 | Q-FUN1 is now known as KRPL | |
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| 13:17 | <Q-FUN1> as far as I can tell, PXE is essentially Etherboot but with full-featured DHCP instead of plain old BOOTP - od did I misuntrstand that one too?
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| 13:18 | Q-FUN1 is now known as Q-FUNK | |
| 13:18 | <pscheie> Q-FUN1: etherboot works just fine, at least up through ltsp 4.2
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| 13:18 | I use etherboot floppies on the clients frequently
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| 13:19 | I think version 5 still supports it, too
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| 13:19 | <privet> etherboot is an implementation of PXE (as far as I understand)
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| 13:19 | I am using etherboot with success on 4.2
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| 13:19 | <Q-FUNK> privet: I thought it was the other way around?
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| 13:19 | <privet> been using ltsp for only a month
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| 13:20 | have 2 PC's running with it...
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| 13:20 | so... "as I understand it"
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| 13:20 | <Q-FUNK> ah. :)
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| 13:20 | <pscheie> Q-FUNK: I think your analysis of pxe vs. etherboot is correct
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| 13:21 | although I've heard that the etherboot project is working on incorporating pxe
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| 13:21 | <Gadi> ogra: ping
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| 13:21 | <pscheie> not entirely sure what that means
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| 13:21 | <Q-FUNK> I just keep on getting a lot of requests for thin clients that specifically support PXE, from LTSP users. I'm trying to determine what makes it better than plain old Etherboot.
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| 13:22 | pscheie: yes, I've sen that too. they are adding PXE support. however, it only seems to work with specific bioses and for building boot roms.
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| 13:24 | <Gadi> Q-FUNK: the PXE bootloader is more configurable than when you simply download an nbi with etherboot
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| 13:24 | some people use that property to provide boot options to the end user
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| 13:24 | Blinny has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:24 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi: ok. in what way? I already know about plain BOOTP versus DHCP. what else am I missing?
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| 13:25 | <Gadi> you can setup the PXE bootloader to provide a menu of boot options
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| 13:25 | just like with GRUB
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| 13:25 | so, the end user can choose to boot from network, locally, boot a memtester, ....
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| 13:25 | <Q-FUNK> ah, ok. that could be usefull.
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| 13:26 | <Gadi> plus you can configure boot options on the server
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| 13:26 | <Q-FUNK> or well, that bootloader would actually be BIOS extension that comes with the NIC's bootrom, right?
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| 13:26 | <Gadi> so, if you want different clients to have different kernel args, you can do it on the server per-client
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| 13:26 | which can also be done in dhcpd.conf with etherboot
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| 13:26 | <Blinny> I have an easily-reproduced crashbug in Firefox 1.5.0.10, however running in a terminal doesn't show any debugging output.. FF just exits. What utility can I use to trace what it's doing when it dies? valgrind? gdb?
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| 13:27 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi: right, I was gonna say that it reminds be of dhcpd.conf
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| 13:28 | Gadi: I work in hardware manufacturing. I was just trying to determine if getting full PXE support was worth the trouble of licensing a commercial BIOS. for plain Etherboot, we could do it using LinuxBIOS.
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| 13:30 | <pscheie> Q-FUNK: I'd think most thin client users wouldn't care whether it's pxe or etherboot since ltsp supports both
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| 13:30 | They just don't want to be locked into WinCE or similar
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| 13:30 | <Q-FUNK> pscheie: it mostly seems to be a buzzword that some custoemrs equate with "perfect LTSP support". I'm just trying to verify whether thta is factually true.
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| 13:31 | <pscheie> I'd bet it isn't true, that they're just looking for buzzword compliance
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| 13:31 | Mostly, they want plug-n-play
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| 13:31 | if it's labeled 'netboot' or some such, most won't care what the code actually is
| |
| 13:32 | or so my gut tells me
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| 13:32 | <Q-FUNK> personally, I've always been happy with Etherboot but some customers insist on getting PXE.
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| 13:34 | <pscheie> quit
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| 13:44 | <privet> IMHO: some customers do not really know what they want...
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| 13:47 | <Guaraldo> privet: I'd sey it's normal...
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| 13:47 | :%s/sey/say
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| 15:07 | <flying_shell> good evening guys! I've got a problem with my lts.conf. I'm trying to connect directly to an MS Terminalserver with following configuration:
| |
| 15:07 | SCREEN_01 = rdesktop -f 143.93.32.7
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| 15:07 | But all that I see on my Thin CLients is a blank X Screen with an mouse cursor.
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| 15:07 | Can somebody help?
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| 15:07 | muh2000 has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:07 | <Gadi> dont use -f
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| 15:07 | it will use it by default
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| 15:08 | <flying_shell> just a moment i will try
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| 15:08 | <Gadi> and put the whole thing in double quotes
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| 15:08 | "rdesktop <ip>"
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| 15:09 | muh2000 has quit IRC | |
| 15:09 | <flying_shell> no change still the same screen
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| 15:09 | <Gadi> ltsp 4.2?
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| 15:09 | <cliebow_> ive got a double quote on both sides of my computer and it still doesnt work
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| 15:09 | muh2000 has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:09 | <flying_shell> here my lts.conf
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| 15:09 | [Default]
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| 15:09 | SERVER = 192.168.104.2
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| 15:09 | XSERVER = auto
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| 15:09 | X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "PS/2"
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| 15:09 | X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/psaux"
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| 15:09 | X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION = 400
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| 15:09 | X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = 3
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| 15:09 | USE_XFS = N
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| 15:09 | SCREEN_01 = "rdesktop 143.93.32.7"
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| 15:09 | SCREEN_02 = shell
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| 15:09 | XKBVARIANT = NODEADKEYS
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| 15:10 | XKBSYMBOLS = de(pc105)
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| 15:10 | XKBMODEL = pc105
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| 15:10 | XKBLAYOUT = de
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| 15:10 | MODULE_01 = uhci-hcd
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| 15:10 | MODULE_02 = usblp
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| 15:10 | MODULE_03 = usb-storage
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| 15:10 | <Gadi> flying_shell: first off, this should be useful:
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| 15:10 | <flying_shell> LOCAL_STORAGE = Y
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| 15:10 | ltsp version 4.2
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| 15:10 | <Gadi> !ltspbot pastebot
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| 15:10 | <ltspbot> Gadi: Error: "ltspbot" is not a valid command.
| |
| 15:10 | <Gadi> !ltspbot paste
| |
| 15:10 | <ltspbot> Gadi: Error: "ltspbot" is not a valid command.
| |
| 15:10 | <Gadi> !pastebot
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| 15:10 | <ltspbot> Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
| |
| 15:10 | <Gadi> there we go
| |
| 15:10 | :)
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| 15:10 | muh2000 has quit IRC | |
| 15:11 | <Gadi> second: do you have NAT running on the server?
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| 15:11 | <flying_shell> jep
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| 15:12 | but it couldnt be a network prob, because when i start a normal xsession i can connect to the server
| |
| 15:12 | <Gadi> do you run xsession to SERVER?
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| 15:13 | <flying_shell> only for test purposes
| |
| 15:13 | <Gadi> well, then networking could very well be different
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| 15:13 | ctrl-alt-f2 and try to ping the RDP server
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| 15:13 | muh2000 has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:13 | <flying_shell> thats it
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> :)
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| 15:14 | <flying_shell> no answer
| |
| 15:14 | thanks so much
| |
| 15:14 | <Gadi> wait
| |
| 15:14 | we can fix it
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> but, try pinging the rdp server from the shell
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| 15:14 | does it work?
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| 15:14 | <flying_shell> jep
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> ah, ok
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| 15:14 | <flying_shell> i think about ip forewarding via iptables
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> nah, NAT will work fine with RDP
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| 15:15 | are you using LTSP 4.2?
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| 15:15 | <flying_shell> of course
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| 15:15 | <Gadi> and you can connect to the RDP server running rdesktop from another computer?
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| 15:15 | <flying_shell> jep
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| 15:15 | the windows server runs without any problems
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| 15:16 | <Gadi> hmm.. try ctrl-alt-f2, run: /etc/screen.d/rdesktop <IP>
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| 15:16 | then ctrl-alt-backspace
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| 15:17 | and see if there are any errors on the screen
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| 15:17 | <flying_shell> ok one moment
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| 15:18 | only some failures with my fonts but nothing critical
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| 15:18 | <Gadi> did they seem like X failures or rdesktop failures?
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| 15:18 | <flying_shell> X failures
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| 15:20 | <Gadi> and you are sure you can ping the IP from the shell? perhaps try telnetting from the shell to port 3389
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| 15:20 | it sounds an awful lot like a networking problem
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| 15:20 | <flying_shell> i cant ping from a local shell (on the client) but directly from the server i can
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| 15:21 | <Gadi> ah
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| 15:21 | then it is a networking problem
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| 15:21 | ok
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| 15:21 | on the server, make sure:
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| 15:21 | 1. cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward return 1
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| 15:22 | 2. make sure NAT is enabled: iptables -t nat -L
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| 15:22 | <flying_shell> ok it returns 0
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| 15:22 | <Gadi> ah
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| 15:22 | echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
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| 15:22 | how about iptables?
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| 15:23 | <flying_shell> ok the ts answers on the client
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| 15:23 | <Gadi> ok - to make it permanent edit: /etc/sysctl.conf
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| 15:23 | <flying_shell> but thers still a blank x :)
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| 15:24 | <Gadi> a blank X?
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| 15:24 | <flying_shell> when i start the rpd connection via /etc/screen.d/rdesktop 143.93.32.7
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| 15:25 | ok i've got it
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| 15:26 | after 14h worktime i've got an login screen
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| 15:26 | genius
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| 15:26 | but local devices are not functional via rdesktop
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> flying_shell: thats true because of the ltspfs stuff. I have a package on the WorkInProgress section of the wiki that can get you local devices on rdesktop
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| 15:28 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#LTSP_4_2_RDP_localdev
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| 15:29 | <flying_shell> sounds great
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| 15:30 | <Gadi> your mileage may vary
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| 15:30 | with all the LTSP5 work going on, that package hasnt been given the most testing, but it does work....
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| 15:30 | give it a shot
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| 15:32 | <flying_shell> i will give a try
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| 15:33 | but i've got an other problem
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| 15:33 | i've made an rc script for Iptables
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| 15:33 | but after the exec of the script the tftp doesnt answer
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| 15:34 | <ltsppbot> "flying_shell" pasted "NAT Script" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/110
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| 15:36 | <Gadi> try dropping the SNAT line, flushing the tables and set
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| 15:38 | <flying_shell> tftp is now reachable again
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| 15:38 | <flying_shell> i hope the ts too
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| 15:38 | :)
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| 15:39 | it looks very good
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| 15:40 | <flying_shell> local_dev's are functional too
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| 15:41 | <flying_shell> ok now i must only make two additional configs for two seperate clients
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| 15:41 | because thy should start an xsession
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| 15:44 | <randombrown> Anyone able to help with a (hopefully) basic question? I'm trying to use a PXE ltsp client with Windows DHCP. I saw an article on it, but it wasn't clear.
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| 15:47 | <sbalneav> randombrown: This might help:
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| 15:47 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP
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| 15:48 | <randombrown> That's the one!
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| 15:48 | <sutula> !ask
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| 15:48 | <ltspbot> sutula: Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
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| 15:48 | <randombrown> I can get as far as reserving the IP address for the particular client, but I don't know where to put the configuration options he mentions.
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| 15:49 | <sbalneav> randombrown: Somewhere in the GUI, I'd expect :)
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| 15:49 | Haven't run windows for years, so I don't know where you'd find it.
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| 15:50 | <randombrown> So those options are to be entered on the windows side? Oh, I thought those were ltsp options for the LTSP server!
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| 15:51 | <sbalneav> Are these going to be dedicated thin clients? Or are you going to have them sometimes be LTSP clients, and sometimes run "other" operating systems?
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| 15:51 | You may find it easier to simply put a second NIC in the ltsp server, and hang all the terminals off that one nic.
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| 15:51 | <randombrown> They're going to be dedicated ltsp clients.
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| 15:51 | <sbalneav> Then you can use the Linux DHCP server, and just have it serve addresses on that segment.
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| 15:52 | So if eth0 is your backbone, then eth1 could be for the terminals, and just restrict the Linux DHCP server to only hand out addresses on eth1
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| 15:53 | <randombrown> Is there a specific command for that in dhcpd.conf?
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| 15:55 | <sbalneav> What distribution of Linux are you running?
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| 15:55 | <randombrown> edubuntu 7.04
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| 15:55 | but I'm not wedded to it
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| 15:56 | <sbalneav> No, that's fine.
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| 15:56 | Modify /etc/default/dhcp3-server
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| 15:56 | change the line that says:
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| 15:56 | INTERFACES=""
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| 15:56 | Which will make it listen on ALL interfaces, to something like:
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| 15:57 | INTERFACES="eth1"
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| 15:57 | Which will cause it to listen to a specific interfaces.
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| 15:57 | s/s.$/./g
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| 15:57 | <randombrown> Excellent, thank you very much!
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| 15:57 | <sbalneav> No problem.
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| 16:20 | <cliebow> sbalneav:you are a Good Man
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| 17:05 | <gonzaloaf_work> hi, is it possible that my clients play sound through their own soundcard?
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| 17:05 | ltsp5 btw
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| 17:06 | <cliebow> shou;d pretty much work out of the box..
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| 17:06 | <gonzaloaf_work> ahh?
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| 17:07 | <cliebow> ogra is prob sleeping..
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| 17:07 | <gonzaloaf_work> ohhhh he is the man?
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| 17:14 | <cliebow> yes..
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| 17:14 | ltsp5 is his imp0lementaion in many ways
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| 17:54 | <gonzaloaf_work> I dont know what happened, I put the correct user and password but my clients doesnt login, why?
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| 19:52 | <gonzaloaf_work> is ogra around there
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