IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 April 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:19 | * alkisg wonders what the performance gain is between using NBD, and exporting just the /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img file with NFS and loop-mounting it as the client root file system | |
| 06:20 | <alkisg> An NFS exported squashfs'ed image should still be much faster than an NFS exported /opt/ltsp/i386 dir...
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| 06:21 | That might even solve all the nbd-proxy, disconnects etc etc related problems, as nfs-client is more mature
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| 06:21 | highvoltage: you might want to try that ^ instead of using nbd-proxy
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| 06:45 | <muppis> alkisg, cheez. That could be cool. We tried to use ltsp in our virtualcluster and only reason to abandon it was is not surviving from SAN failover.
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| 06:46 | But never thinked could use loop mounting for image directly.
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> muppis: of course you could also try using NFS directly, without loop mounting anything, it'd be a bit slower though
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| 06:50 | AFAIK all distros that support LTSP also support NFS-exported /opt/ltsp/i386 dirs
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| 06:54 | <muppis> alkisg, speed to really the issue in our case. When system is started it really does nothing than sits in a corner and keeps virtuals running. We ended up using seperated nfs exports per virtualhost.
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> "speed to really the issue" => did you mean that speed is an issue, or that it isn't?
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| 06:54 | <muppis> Isn't. Sorry, just woke up. :)
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| 06:55 | <alkisg> Then why not use e.g. debian, which uses nfs by default?
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| 06:55 | Or switch ubuntu to nfs, isn't hard...
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| 06:57 | <muppis> I really don't longer remember why we cave up whole ltsp enviroment in those.
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| 07:00 | <muppis> But ltsp could be lot easier to maintain than system where we ended to use.
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| 15:24 | * vagrantc waves to alkisg | |
| 15:24 | <alkisg> Hi vagrantc, I have the epoptes changelog ready to commit when you have time for upload :)
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| 15:24 | Just ping me and I'll be ready in 5'
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| 15:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'll give it a test build, and then we'll run with it
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> I tested the new pxe-menus and they work out of the box for both NBD and NFS now :)
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| 15:25 | <vagrantc> nice!
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> http://imagebin.org/207317 - dirs sorted in ascending order, kernels in descending, the header/footer is in /etc/ltsp, and the DEFAULT in /etc/default/ltsp-pnp (fow now)
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| 15:29 | Two of those images are btrfs loop back images, those work fine too
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'd go ahead and commit your changes (leave the -1 tag for me, though, just in case)
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> Cool, doing so..
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| 15:57 | * vagrantc should maybe use debian/x.x.x-x instead | |
| 15:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i was thinking it would be nice if ltsp-info had a hook where epoptes could say "also look at my package versions!"
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> So that we can ask for ltsp-info in epoptes bug troubleshooting? I'm not sure if it's worth it for epoptes, but in general it sounds nice
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc> if i'm doing ltsp troubleshooting, it would be nice to know epoptes is there.
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| 16:01 | but i wouldn't want to look for it if epoptes wasn't there...
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> vagrantc: pushed
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| 16:08 | <vagrantc> aha, i forgot to even report a bug you fixed with this version ...
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| 16:09 | "service epoptes stop" didn't work
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| 16:09 | but now it does ... although that leaves some cruft on upgrades... the old epoptes process continues to run
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| 16:13 | alkisg: a one character diff with australian english!
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| 16:13 | * vagrantc debates weather that shouldn't just be merged upstream. | |
| 16:13 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yeah, I keep wondering why he bothered :)
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| 16:13 | What is it?
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> "fullscreen" vs. "full screen"
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| 16:14 | which is a bit debateable at this point ... i'd almost say "fullscreen" has made it into common enough use that it's just plain english.
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> #: ../epoptes/ui/gtk/epoptes.ui.h:22
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| 16:15 | msgid "Broadcast your screen to the selected clients, fullscreen"
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| 16:15 | msgstr "Broadcast your screen to the selected clients, fullscreen"
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| 16:15 | He didn't do that one though :)
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| 16:15 | <vagrantc> but i am perhaps not the best judge
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| 16:15 | heh
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| 16:15 | might be contextually dependent in australia
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| 16:16 | <||cw> google dones'
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| 16:16 | t even suggest "did you mean full screen"
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| 16:18 | <vagrantc> alkisg: s,precise,unstable, :P
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| 16:18 | <alkisg> vagrantc: errr
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| 16:18 | Could you allow me a push --overwrite? :D
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| 16:18 | You uncommit, I push --overwrite, you pull, simple
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| 16:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: why bother, i'll tag 0.5.3-1 with the change.
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> OK
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> http://www.epoptes.org/news/version053released
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| 16:22 | <vagrantc> alkisg: do you use "dch" to edit debian/changelog?
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yes, but I mistakenly put -Ui there
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 16:23 | makes it all ubuntu-ish
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| 16:27 | <alkisg> Heh, I'll sync to Precise tomorrow, just 1 day before final freeze... not very good for a new package :D
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| 16:27 | But ok the last changes were only minor fixes + translation updates
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| 16:28 | stgraber: beeeeep => reminder for the ltsp upload :)
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| 16:31 | <stgraber> alkisg: yeah, working on other stuff today (day off ;)), will look at it tomorrow
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: uploaded.
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> np, just in case you forgot
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| 16:31 | vagrantc: thank you once more!
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> anything for ltsp other than the symlinks for ltsp-*functions fixes?
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Just that, I think
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| 16:33 | About the pxe menus, I ended up using "pxelinux.inc" files, which are not actually included to the master pxelinux.cfg/default, but are concatenated there (to allow for setting a specific MENU DEFAULT in the correct place)
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| 16:33 | Each package or the sysadmin drop such files anywhere they want, and they're sourced in dir-alphabetical order
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> the MENU DEFAULT only works on the top-level?
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| 16:34 | <alkisg> No, it needs to be defined inside a LABEL
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| 16:34 | If it was allowed at top-level, we could just INCLUDE the other files from the master one
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| 16:35 | <vagrantc> at any rate, you found a workable solution :)
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> Final ltsp-update-kernels, in the future I'll merge it upstream: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~alkisg/+junk/ltsp-pnp/view/head:/sbin/ltsp-update-kernels
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| 16:35 | <vagrantc> the future starts today, no? :)
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> And final update-pxe-menu: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~alkisg/+junk/ltsp-pnp/view/head:/ltsp-pnp/update-pxe-menu
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| 16:36 | Today I'll try to make `ltsp-publish-image`, so I can release the first version of ltsp-pnp :)
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| 16:36 | I want to do 10-20 school installations in 2 weeks, so no time for LTSP upstream merges now
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| 16:37 | <vagrantc> alkisg: are you planning on diverting ltsp-update-kernels from ltsp-server, or merging it upstream?
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| 16:37 | <alkisg> When ltsp-pnp matures, I'd like to put it upstream, to be generated from the same source package
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| 16:37 | So at that point, if you all agree, I'll merge any changes
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| 16:38 | But now it's too soon, that's why I ended up reimplementing the tools from scratch, for faster development
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| 16:38 | <vagrantc> one thing i was wondering... why not use nbdroot=dhcp ?
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| 16:39 | <alkisg> ?
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| 16:39 | nbdroot=:ltsp_pnp, the nbd config name
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| 16:39 | <vagrantc> i guess if you have multiple NFS chroots and NBD images, you need to be able to select them from the menu
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| 16:39 | <alkisg> That already works, http://imagebin.org/207317
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| 16:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yes, but nbdroot=dhcp allows you to pass ":ltsp_pnp" via DHCP
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> I booted my ubuntu chroots with NFS with no changes at all, but just running the ltsp-pnp's ltsp-update-kernels
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| 16:40 | Ah
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| 16:40 | Well... I think that the most common ltsp-pnp use case is with proxydhcp
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| 16:40 | <vagrantc> though i guess explicitly defining the NBD and NFS root options from the menu actually allows more flexibility
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> In this case, the client doesn't do a second dhcp request
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| 16:41 | Because udhcp and ipconfig don't know about the pxe protocol (and probably shouldn't)
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| 16:41 | * vagrantc uses multiple chroots and servers all the time, and ends up writing a cuustom menu | |
| 16:41 | <alkisg> So I'm using IPAPPEND 3 by default...
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| 16:41 | <vagrantc> right
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc: let's see if we can satisfy all your needs with the new pxe menu structure
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| 16:41 | <vagrantc> alkisg: seems like you're practically there
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> You'll still need to provide some pxelinux.inc files, but I suppose they'll be merged OK by update-pxe-menus
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| 16:42 | <vagrantc> i'll need to support multiple debian-installer, ubuntu-installer, debian-live and ubuntu-live images.
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| 16:43 | and a few other random options ... seems like the possibility is basically there already, with perhaps a few small additions.
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| 16:43 | <alkisg> That should be easy enough, I do that with debian installer + casper images too
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| 16:43 | vagrantc: if you want to extract the pxelinux.inc logic in another package, I'd be glad to depend on it instead
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| 16:45 | <vagrantc> i think it either belongs in it's own source, or possibly merged into syslinux.
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| 16:45 | alkisg: i'd say you keep going with what you've got, and we can adjust it later, if that works for you
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> Syslinux integration sounds better, so yup, I'll do as you say
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| 16:46 | It's basically just a 43-lines script and a configuration file, so I don't think they'd object much
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> !learn ltsp-pnp as ltsp-pnp is a beta-quality alternative to ltsp-server, which focuses on ease of maintainance (no chroots involved!) and speed rather than tight security. More info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 18:25 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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