IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 December 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:47 | <mgariepy> good morning all
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| 08:01 | <m4xx> how can i disable screen switching in my ltsp clients? i tried adding X_OPTION_01 = "DontVTSwitch" to lts.conf but i had no effect
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| 08:13 | <m4xx> i found gadi's comment about modifying configure-x.sh but it didn't work either
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| 08:15 | <robehend1> mornin all
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| 08:30 | <gsouque> hello
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| 08:30 | <robehend1> So we had a suprise visitor at our School Board meeting last night. Turns out the local Microsoft campus had discovered we used Linux, and came out to provide damnanation and dire warnings on it
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| 08:33 | <highvoltage> robehend1: Sheesh.
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| 08:33 | <robehend1> highvoltage: school board listened, sadly. I've got a meeting tommorrow on it, which i'm sure will equate to bending over and saying "thank you sir, may I have another?"
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| 08:34 | <gsouque> i have a ltsp server on ubuntu 10.04 wich run both ltsp and nxserver and i have an issue with the nxserver : when i launch a session witth the nxclient the windows cotroller(colse minimaze..) disappear after a while.
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| 08:35 | <robehend1> gsouque: Hmm, odd. I have LTSP and NX on a 10.04 box and it works great. Have you tried making your session limited to say, 1024x768 res, so it appears as a floating window? Maybe that'll help
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| 08:35 | <highvoltage> robehend1: where is this? I had a discussion just yesterday with someone about how it seems like just about everything in the US is sold with fear these days
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| 08:35 | in the old days it was "sex sells", not it's "fear sells"!
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| 08:35 | <robehend1> highvoltage: Minnesota, US ;)
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| 08:36 | <highvoltage> oops, s/not/now/g
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| 08:36 | <vmlintu> what were the things they warned about?
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| 08:37 | <gsouque> i am using fullscreen session.
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| 08:37 | <robehend1> non-industry standard, no commercial support, higher cost of ownership, lack of available technicians, lack of educational software, lack of compatibility, etc etc
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| 08:37 | gsouque: are the buttons dissappearing in specific programs only, or all programs.
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| 08:37 | <gsouque> i am using a 32bit kernel with pae enabled
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| 08:38 | it disappers in all programs (thunderbird firefox nautilus...) and sometimes the web pages are not visable (white pages)
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| 08:39 | when i connect in vnc to the remote session everything is visible..
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| 08:39 | <robehend1> hmm...do you have your connection settings all set correctly? Maybe it's caching hte images funny
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| 08:39 | since NX does that happy packet dance
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| 08:39 | <vmlintu> robehend1: have there been problems on the pedagogical side?
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| 08:40 | <robehend1> vmlintu: Not overly. There was an adaption period, for sure, but the software is capable of everything they need.
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| 08:41 | vmlintu: I have had some concerned parents state the same issues, but after actually inviting them in, sitting them down in front of the linux box, and saying "there, now try to find something it wont do", they usually walk away satisfied
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| 08:42 | <gsouque> the connection parameter is not tuned it's was working well when the server was in 64bits
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| 08:42 | the ltsp side work like a chram :)
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| 08:42 | <highvoltage> robehend1: I'm usually quick to point out to teachers that a Linux-based system won't run all the educational apps out there, but I also do what you do and show them that despite that, it's still very effective and useful
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| 08:42 | <robehend1> gsouque: I've never had any isses with it on 64 bit either, to be honest. I havent tried 32, since I havent installed 32 bit in ages.
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| 08:43 | <gsouque> i migred to 32 bit because my client want to use flash player
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| 08:43 | flash 64bits make firefox crash
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| 08:44 | <robehend1> highvoltage: Did the same. told teachers it wont do everything the same way, but we can set it up so it'll do what it needs
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| 08:44 | gsouque: You do know that you can have hte server be on 64 bit, but the chroot be on 32 bit, correct?
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| 08:44 | <gsouque> yes
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| 08:44 | but flash play on the server
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| 08:46 | <robehend1> ah. well, i'd try tuning hte connection, see if that helps. I've had horrible luck with flash over NX though, in the past. it does better than VNC and RDP, but still not usuable for what my students wanted
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| 08:48 | <gsouque> yes but it is usable in 32bits version that why i made a 32bits version with pae enabled to handle more than 3GB of memory. but now i have a new issue...
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| 08:58 | <robehend1> Its honestly the first i've seen with that. Its odd, since usually NX works great, or just doesnt work at all..
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| 09:03 | <gsouque> i think that i am retruning to 64 bit version !!! thanks
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| 09:08 | <robehend1> no prob. I like 64 bit better anyways haha
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| 09:10 | any one here ever able to run TestNav on LTSP?
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| 09:10 | <m4xx> nice, gadi's suggestion does work but in a different place in my env. i had to add a new function to XS00-xorg-conf-functions and now have screen switching disabled.
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| 09:21 | <vmlintu> robehend1: over here the most advanced schools are using linux and building their learning environments on top of it
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| 09:21 | <robehend1> vmlintu: where is "over here"?
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| 09:21 | <vmlintu> robehend1: finland
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| 09:22 | <robehend1> vmlintu: ah. thats the problem. I've had great examples from all over the globe, but all I hear when I mention them is "Dis is Amerika, we dont need no fancy foreign ideas here, USA USA USA"
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| 09:22 | perhaps not exactly that wording, the meaning is the same
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| 09:22 | <Pweg> america is microsoft, microsoft is america
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| 09:23 | <vmlintu> linus is american nowadays ;)
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| 09:24 | robehend1: is it a single school or a school district?
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| 09:26 | <robehend1> vmlintu: District
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| 09:27 | <m4xx> does ltsp use ctrl+f1 as a shortcut key anywhere? I'm unable to send ctrl+f1 to my xenapp client which in return sends ctrl+alt+del to the xenapp session
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| 09:27 | <robehend1> m4xx: if i'm not mistaken, you can check in Gconf, and remap some keys
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| 09:28 | <m4xx> i didn't see it anywhere
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| 09:28 | =[
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| 09:28 | i've looked in gconf-editor and in system->preferences->keyboard shortcuts
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| 09:28 | not sure where else to check
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| 09:28 | <robehend1> its somewhere in Gconf, let me dig it out
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| 09:29 | <m4xx> if you find it i'm driving to minnesota to buy you a beer =]
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| 09:29 | <robehend1> gconf-editor, apps, metacity, global keybindings
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| 09:30 | thats where all mine are, at least.
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| 09:30 | if yours are set to Ctrl+F1 does something, just clickon it and change the value ;)
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| 09:31 | <m4xx> yeah, i dont see ctrl+f1 anywhere
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| 09:31 | <robehend1> well, does hitting ctrl-f1 do anything?
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| 09:31 | <m4xx> i believe i went through every keybinding in there
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| 09:31 | no sir
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| 09:31 | not a damn thing =[
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| 09:31 | <robehend1> sounds like your client isnt sending it through
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> There's also `xte` which can send keyboard shortcuts
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| 09:32 | <robehend1> i've found that before, with like vnc and such, were certain key commands dont get sent to the remote session, just stay on the host. annoying as heck
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| 13:08 | <Sorinan> is possible to use a smartcard reader on a ltsp client? (not for ltsp auth, but for use in the browser)
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| 13:14 | <Gadi> Sorinan: haven't done it, but I would think your best bet would be to run the browser as a localapp and install all the smartcard stuff into the chroot
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| 13:14 | <Sorinan> hmm, make sense! let me search a little about localapps...
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| 13:16 | <Sorinan> Gadi, another thing, if I use a browser as a localapp, it will use the client IP to access the internet, and not the server ip, right?
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| 13:16 | <Pweg> you have to NAT through the server at that point, to get internet access
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| 13:17 | <Gadi> Sorinan: correct
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| 13:17 | <uday> Is someone using LTSP on debian squeeze with NBD?
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| 13:17 | <Pweg> oh wait, that's only dual nic server, nm
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| 13:17 | <alkisg> uday: erm, not exactly, I'm using ltsp on squeeze with nfs and I also use nbd on squeeze, but not with ltsp... any problems?
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| 13:18 | <m4xx> a little off topic but, does anyone use Citrix XenApp on linux?
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| 13:18 | <uday> i am confused in using NBD for LTSP
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| 13:19 | alkisg: any guidelines
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| 13:19 | <Sorinan> localapps is supported on LTSP4.2?
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| 13:19 | <alkisg> uday: I'm not sure I understood your problem. You want to switch from nfs to nbd? Why?
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| 13:21 | (the default in debian is nfs)
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| 13:21 | <robehend1> m4xx: I've tried XenApp, but the licensing fees made me cry manly tears
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| 13:22 | <m4xx> for the life of me i cant get it to open the taskmanager on the server
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| 13:22 | <uday> I want to make it a fat client network using NBD. I presume i can't do it with NFS. or will I?
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| 13:22 | <m4xx> on the windows clients i can hit ctrl+f1
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| 13:23 | on the linux client it absolutely refuses =[
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| 13:23 | <robehend1> m4xx: hmm..try an Onscreen keyboard?
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| 13:23 | <alkisg> uday: sure you can, with any remote disk protocol
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| 13:25 | <Gadi> m4xx: go to Tools > Settings : Keyboard Shortcuts
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| 13:25 | <johnny> uday, but it is slower to use nfs.. that's why we use nbd..
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| 13:26 | <m4xx> Map Alt F? to Ctrl+F1 doesn't work =\
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> johnny: well now that nbd is uncompressed, it isn't very faster :)
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| 13:27 | Uncompressed == 3 times slower than compressed :(
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| 13:27 | <Gadi> m4xx: you can always right-click the tsakbar
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| 13:27 | :)
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| 13:28 | <m4xx> my connection doesn't have a taskbar or actual desktop
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| 13:28 | i dont have priveleges to change anything on the xenserver either =[
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| 13:28 | <Gadi> then what makes you think you have privilges to bring up task manager?
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| 13:28 | <m4xx> because i can do it on the windows client
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| 13:29 | <Gadi> ah
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| 13:29 | and you are sure it brings up the server's task manager?
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| 13:29 | <uday> alkisg: understood now. i could not find guidelines for NBD in debian.
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| 13:29 | <m4xx> yes sir :)
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| 13:31 | <Gadi> m4xx: and is your keyboard control "direct" or "translated"?
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| 13:31 | <m4xx> i've tried both
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| 13:31 | <robehend1> have you tried praying to the computer gods?
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| 13:32 | <m4xx> twice =[
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| 13:32 | <Gadi> well, im fresh out of ideas
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| 13:32 | :)
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| 13:32 | <robehend1> did ya try an Onscreen keyboard?
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| 13:32 | <m4xx> trying now
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> uday: once you get fat clients working with the default nfs system, if you want to speed them up, you can then convert to nbd
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| 13:33 | (some people reported that they had trouble getting fat clients on debian)
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| 13:33 | <robehend1> alkisg: is LTSp5 still on NFS, or is it onto NBD? I could use a speed bump ;)
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> robehend1: debian == default nfs, ubuntu == default nbd
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| 13:33 | <robehend1> ah, darn, no speed bump for me ;)
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> kiwi also supports aoe and stuff like that
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| 13:34 | robehend1: what are you using? ubuntu 10.10?
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| 13:34 | <robehend1> alkisg: 10.04. I like me LTS
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> robehend1: me too. Thin or fat clients?
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| 13:34 | <robehend1> alkisg: thin, but local apps for firefox, ooo, gimp
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> Ah, then you'll get a speed up if you reenable compression
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| 13:35 | In /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
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| 13:35 | <robehend1> any negative affects?
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> There's disagreement on that :)
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| 13:35 | <robehend1> such as...;)
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> Some believe that it causes transfer errors , but I've never seen that happening
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| 13:35 | <robehend1> how much of a speedup am I talking here?
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> (except from atl cards which have transfer errors unrelated to nbd)
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| 13:36 | About 2.5 times faster disk speed
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| 13:36 | <robehend1> ooo nice
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> See your image size before and after the compression
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| 13:36 | <robehend1> perhaps that would allow my logins to go faster. after the client is logged in, its fine. its the login period thats slow as donkeys
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> ls -l /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 13:37 | robehend1: ah, are you using ltsp-cluster?
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| 13:37 | <robehend1> alkisg: i was, we're now back on one big monster server.
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> I heard cluster has some problems with compression when a server switch is happening, don't know, never used cluster
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| 13:37 | <robehend1> alkisg: its not Disk I/O locking us out, as I've checked that
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| 13:38 | <alkisg> So you should be fine with re-enabling compression (it was enabled in previous ubuntu versions)
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| 13:38 | <robehend1> alkisg: but ill get them all up to LDM, and go to log one client in..and it'll take a solid..30 seconds or more for a workable gnome desktop to appear. Longer sometimes
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| 13:44 | <uday> alkisg: ok i will workout and will report back//quit
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| 13:47 | <robehend1> alkisg: have you ran LTSP on a virtual server before?
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| 13:47 | <alkisg> vbox
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| 13:47 | And esxi, but I didn't configure it, i just used it
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| 13:49 | <m4xx> robehend1 i cant seem to find one with fkeys =x
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| 13:51 | <robehend1> m4xx: I wondered about that. was a thought
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| 13:51 | alkisg: any noticable loss in performance?
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> robehend1: if the vm supports a gigabit connection, then it's less than 10% loss in performance
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| 13:52 | Nothing serious..
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| 13:52 | <robehend1> hmm.
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| 13:52 | i may have to look at that then.
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| 13:52 | if the school board decides to let me keep it
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| 14:10 | <m4xx> finally
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| 14:10 | !
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| 14:10 | <robehend1> how'd ya do it?
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| 14:10 | <m4xx> ctrl+shift+escape
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| 14:10 | <robehend1> woo
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| 14:11 | <m4xx> it's not the same thing but it's the endresult i'm looking for
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| 14:11 | =]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
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| 14:11 | <robehend1> thats what matters
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| 14:11 | <m4xx> can finally get some lunch
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| 14:11 | =x
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| 14:11 | 3 hours after lunch time ;x
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| 14:12 | <Pweg> sounds about right :P
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| 14:12 | <robehend1> thats it for ya
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| 14:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> robehend1: to be sure, is your client receiving a proper DNS address?
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| 14:28 | It's possible that your logins are taking a long time because there's a problem resolving
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| 14:28 | <robehend1> how would i go about checking?
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| 14:28 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok
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| 14:28 | <robehend1> windows dns and dhcp, btw
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| 14:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> add the following lines below [DEFAULT] in lts.conf:
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| 14:29 | screen_02 = shell
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| 14:29 | screen_07 = ldm
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| 14:29 | and reboot your client
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| 14:29 | <robehend1> k, i have students on them at the moment, so will these changes affect currently logged in users?
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| 14:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> only once they reboot, and the change will not be evident to users
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| 14:30 | this is just enabling tty2, and telling tty2 to take you to a shell prompt on the client
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> !localxterm
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| 14:30 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> ?
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| 14:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> what is this sorcery?!?
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| 14:30 | <robehend1> i love that feature
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> Just localapps.. enabled by default
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| 14:31 | <robehend1> its the ltspbot ;)
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> One can test dns from there
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| 14:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> I prefer the personal touch, thank you very much ltspbot, I'll take it from here
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> But I think the most common problem is the reverse, i.e. the server doesn't know about the hostnames of the clients
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| 14:31 | <robehend1> k, my virtualbox is bootin up, slowly but surely
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| 14:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok
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| 14:31 | <robehend1> i *really* need to get myself a better workstation haha
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| 14:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> once it boots, don't log in, just go to ctrl+alt+F2
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| 14:32 | <robehend1> alright..
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| 14:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> in there, cat /etc/resolv.conf
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| 14:32 | that SHOULD be a DNS that you recognize
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| 14:32 | <robehend1> ok. tis nearly finished loading
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| 14:32 | say, while i'm looking at this..any way to change the default ubuntu splash screen? Not the LDM one, I've got that configured, but the Ubuntu before that
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| 14:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> Personally, I would bet Alkis is correct, but we'll see
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| 14:33 | the loading screen?
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| 14:33 | not sure. it moves and all...
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| 14:33 | <robehend1> exactly
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| 14:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> don't like movement?
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| 14:33 | <robehend1> oh no, dont midn thst
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| 14:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> you can shut it off and show a bunch of scrolling text :D
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| 14:33 | <robehend1> more my kids see ubuntu and go "WTF IS THIS"
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| 14:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> tell them they need to learn it because it's their future
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| 14:33 | tell them they should be tahnking you on their hands and knees
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| 14:34 | for introducing it to you
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| 14:34 | <robehend1> hahah
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| 14:34 | evidently virtualbox doesnt like ctrl_alt_f2
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| 14:34 | <_UsUrPeR_> or just tell them it's the "other Apple icon" or something
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| 14:34 | attach a flame thrower to it ;)
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| 14:34 | <robehend1> ill do the localapp xterm
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| 14:35 | since localapps are on, and as alkisg said, i believe xterm comes by default
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| 14:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> the problem with localapps xterm is that it's not a "root" user
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| 14:35 | so there's a lot of functionality on the client that is lost
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| 14:35 | <robehend1> i've got a root in chroot just for this
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| 14:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> for this specific purpose, you should be able to cat /etc/resolv.conf
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| 14:35 | oh ho-ho!
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| 14:35 | <robehend1> ;)
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| 14:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> in that case, I suppose I should've just been like "check your resolv.conf"
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| 14:36 | or even better
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| 14:36 | ~localxterm
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| 14:36 | !localxterm
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| 14:36 | <ltspbot> _UsUrPeR_: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> !SCREEN_02
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| 14:36 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "SCREEN_02" :: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> (btw :P)
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| 14:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> YOU TELL HIM ROBOT!
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| 14:36 | <robehend1> ya, my resolv.conf is using my two local dns
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| 14:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> I hope you are just getting a bad dns entry...
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| 14:37 | oh.
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| 14:37 | ok, it may be some crazy windows hoobajoob at fault
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> robehend1: can you `ping ltsp151` from the server?
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| 14:37 | <robehend1> wouldnt be suprised, and let me try
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| 14:37 | no. so theres not registering with dns eh
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> Try what I suggested yesterday,
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| 14:38 | i.e. temporarily declaring all those clients to the server's /etc/hosts
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| 14:38 | And see if that fixes your delays - then you can troubleshoot your dns issues
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| 14:38 | <robehend1> hmm. means i have to go collect mac addresses eh
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> No no macs involved, just hostnames & ips
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| 14:39 | (temporary solution, it won't work if your IPs change)
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| 14:39 | Any hostname will do though
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| 14:39 | <robehend1> ah, thats where i was getting confused
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> What's your subnet range?
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| 14:40 | <robehend1> 255.255.0.0
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| 14:40 | Not best practice, no, but gets the job done
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> Sorry your network id?
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| 14:40 | <robehend1> 192.168.2.x
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> Ah, it's too large
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| 14:40 | Erm what?
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| 14:40 | Why not 255.255.255.0 then?
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| 14:40 | <robehend1> cuz the tech before me setup a single IP range, and I needed more addresses in a 20 minute time period
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| 14:41 | quickest way was popping to 255.255.0.0, adding 192.168.2.x to my dhcp, and it gave me a boot. No time to bring network down to rebuild, yet.
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| 14:41 | oh, forgot to mention, we also use 192.168.1.x, that'll prolly make more sense
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> i=1; while [ $i -lt 255 ]; do echo 192.168.2.$i ltsp$i; i=$(($i+1)); done
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| 14:42 | Run this and put the result in your /etc/hosts
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| 14:42 | Leave it for a few hours/days and see it if solves your delays
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| 14:42 | <robehend1> hmm, alright
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| 14:43 | oh i see what your doing
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> So this way the server will know the clients and won't need to do reverse dns queries
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| 14:45 | Normally it isn't needed, but when you use localapps sometimes it's needed
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| 14:47 | <robehend1> hmm, well, it appears to be going faster. But then again, this is on my virtualbox, which is always slow
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| 14:47 | so i will take a look and let you know. Is ther eany problem with just leaving that in there, if it does fix the issue?
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> No I don't think there's any problem
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| 14:50 | <robehend1> coolio. thanks!
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| 14:50 | if this works out, it'll take one more issue away from the school board and their "linux is bad and you should feel bad" mentality
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