IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 4 October 2008 (all times are UTC)

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05:53	<kaingeo> I have an Ubuntu LTSP installation 8.04.1 about one week now and one time all the screens of the clients freezed (screen freeze mouse moving is this normal?
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09:57	<alkisg> ogra, about Greek in ldm/intrepid (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/233923). I'm trying hard (I put ldm.mo in /usr/share/locale/el/LC_MESSAGES), but I can't see Greek... Any hints? :)
10:00	ogra, dpkg -l ldm in the chroot: 2:2.0.12-0ubuntu1. I thought it was fixed since ldm 2.0.6... :(
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14:00	<Marie_untu> anyone knows about a wifi card with pxe boot support??
14:00	or any other way to support wireless booting???
14:01	<vagrantc> !wireless
14:01	<johnny> you have to boot off of a cd or floppy
14:01	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: "wireless" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WirelessLtsp
14:02	<Marie_untu> yep i know that link
14:02	<johnny> oh.. didn't see these etherboot cards before
14:03	<vagrantc> Marie_untu: well, that link should document everything there is to know on the matter, lest someone is holding out on us.
14:03	<Marie_untu> ok :)
14:04	<johnny> vagrantc, howdy
14:04	<Marie_untu> but i meant if there is any wireless card out there with pxe boot support
14:04	<johnny> no
14:04	<Marie_untu> ok
14:04	<johnny> there is one with etherboot it sounds like
14:04	i don't understand the descxription tho
14:04	according to that page
14:04	<Marie_untu> whith one?
14:04	<johnny> on that link
14:04	at the bottom
14:04	<Marie_untu> ahhh ok
14:04	i see
14:05	ok thanks
14:05	and i hope any wifi manuffacturer will create a supported card soon
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14:06	<vagrantc> haven't heard anything promising
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15:58	<stgraber> ogra: hey, any objection to start nbd-client with "-persist" by default ?
15:59	ogra: that'd make it reconnect in case nbd-server crashes server-side
16:03	lenny has the same release of ntp-client as we have in Intrepid so the option also exists in Debian
16:05	<johnny> stgraber, won't be a problem on any modern distro i bet
16:05	as long as the other devs agree
16:05	i don't know the implications personally tho
16:05	<stgraber> the change would be in: client/initramfs/scripts/ltsp_nbd
16:05	<johnny> oh
16:05	<stgraber> so that should affect debian and ubuntu
16:06	I have done my tests with Ubuntu and lenny has the same nbd-client as we do so it should be fine.
16:07	but I'll ask vagrantc anyway before uploading the change
16:11	<ogra> stgraber, fine with me
16:11	i'm way to busy with mobile stuff though, please remond me some time next week
16:12	<stgraber> ogra: good, it's something we really need for ltsp-cluster as we do HA and currently, moving everyone to another nbd-server make all the clients to crash :)
16:12	<ogra> and with -presist it survives ?
16:12	<stgraber> yes, connection is broken and then reconnects
16:12	<ogra> cool
16:12	<stgraber> yup
16:13	* ogra gets desparate fiddling with arm stuff
16:13	<ogra> oh !
16:13	my n800 booted the debian port, finally
16:13	* stgraber loves the idea of getting rid of NFS for his thin clients (making boot faster and more "upstream compatible" :))
16:13	<stgraber> ogra: oh, cool
16:14	<ogra> so now to get the nojo packages installed on that :)
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16:18	<stgraber> ogra: Hopefully the "only" thing I'll ask you to do next week is to upload my new iTalc package and do a sync of ltsp/ldm/ltspfs (yeah, only that :)). Most of our issues are now fixed upstream (except that udev thing .... but I have a hack rules file that works in most case).
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16:19	<stgraber> oh vagrantc, good you are here :)
16:19	vagrantc: can you make sure the "-persist" option also exists in Debian ?
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16:19	<stgraber> vagrantc: I'd like to add it by default so nbd reconnects in case the nbd-server crashes.
16:19	<vagrantc> stgraber: in what?
16:19	<ogra> nbd-client
16:19	its definately in sid
16:19	since we have it in ubuntu
16:20	<vagrantc> it's definitely in lenny and/or sid ... not sure about etch
16:20	<ogra> sigh, that debian n800 port takes 10min to boot
16:20	* vagrantc checks
16:20	<stgraber> ogra: hmm, there is probably some optimization work to do :)
16:21	ogra: standard maemo takes what ? 2-3 minutes to boot ?
16:21	<ogra> well, i guess it will be faster with an ubuntu system :P
16:21	around a minute
16:21	but you never reboot these things
16:21	<vagrantc> stgraber: doesn't exist for etch, but nbd in etch is badly broken anyways, so no big loss
16:21	<stgraber> indeed
16:22	vagrantc: ok, I'll commit that change then, thanks for checking.
16:22	<vagrantc> stgraber: would be good to mention what version it requires, if possible
16:22	* ogra cant belive that not the simplest things work in the debian port
16:22	<ogra> sigh
16:22	<vagrantc> ogra: ??
16:22	<ogra> the keypad has exactly zero function
16:23	vagrantc, i'm playing with debian on my n800
16:23	<vagrantc> ah
16:25	<ogra> raaah
16:25	* ogra goes mad ... why cant debian put /sbin in my path
16:26	<stgraber> vagrantc: ok, pushed and I mentioned that it needs nbd-client 2.9 to run (that's what rmadison tells me)
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16:29	<stgraber> ogra: oh, just thought about that. As you currently are pretty busy with all those -mobile stuff, would you like me to update the LTSP packages, test them a bit and upload them somewhere on www.stgraber.org so you can just upload them to Ubuntu (same as with iTalc) ?
16:30	<ogra> stgraber, i would owe you a truck of beer for that
16:30	yes
16:30	indeed
16:30	:)
16:30	<stgraber> hehe, too bad BTS is in the US then :)
16:30	and so will UDS ... :(
16:31	<ogra> next UDS is in europe though
16:31	<stgraber> right :)
16:33	<ogra> hrm
16:33	ftp.debian-ports.org doesnt exist ?
16:34	<stgraber> seems to work here
16:34	<ogra> weird
16:34	everything works but debian-port.org
16:34	*ports
16:34	<stgraber> what version of debian are you running ?
16:35	<ogra> no idea
16:35	<stgraber> it contains: experimental, unreleased and unstable (with sid as symlink of course)
16:35	<ogra> i guess its sid
16:35	<stgraber> so if you are running lenny it won't work
16:35	<ogra> ah, at least synaptic works
16:35	the input methods on that release are massively painful
16:36	where is my promised xfce ... damind
16:37	he docs say its xfce, now i have to handle that hildon crap again
16:40	yippie
16:40	* ogra got openssh-server installed
16:42	<ogra> argh
16:42	mojo uses a different binary arch for their packages
16:43	grmbl
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16:44	* ogra sighs
16:44	<jammcq> hey ogra
16:44	how's it going?
16:44	<stgraber> ogra: I guess that for updating our packages, I need to first release a new LTSP right ? looks like I need to update configure.ac and the commit+tag the release? any thing else or is all that documented somewhere ?
16:46	* vagrantc is still struggling with ubuntu hardy failing to log in ...
16:47	<vagrantc> a classic, nothing but upgrades, worked last week, stopped working this week sort of scenario
16:52	wiped out the home directory and started from scratch, same problem...
16:53	<ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "~/.xsession-errors from failed login on ubuntu hardy" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/17
16:55	<vagrantc> no lingering procs running ...
16:55	should /var/run/dbus/system
16:55	_bus_socket exist?
16:56	<stgraber> hmm, as you are using an empty account, can that be something weird being start at session open time ? (/etc/xdg/autostart/)
16:57	vagrantc: do you have dbus running on your server?
16:57	105 3863 0.0 0.2 21572 1368 ? Ss Aug10 0:01 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
16:57	<vagrantc> stgraber: nope
16:57	<stgraber> can you try starting it ?
16:58	I seem to have it running on all my gnome appservers
16:58	<vagrantc> stgraber: what should normally start it?
16:58	i tried restarting hal, but it's taking forever...
16:58	<Ryan52> vagrantc: sudo /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start
16:59	<vagrantc> Ryan52: fails ...
16:59	invoke-rc.d dbus restart
16:59	segfaults
16:59	<Ryan52> heh. nice.
17:00	<stgraber> ok, so I guess you problem is dbus :)
17:01	<Ryan52> does "strace -f"-ing it show any failing system calls?
17:01	<stgraber> vagrantc: sudo -u messagebus /bin/dbus-daemon --system
17:02	sudo -u messagebus /bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork
17:02	for debuging
17:02	<vagrantc> hmmmm
17:02	/bin/dbus-daemon is missing
17:02	<stgraber> oh
17:02	<Ryan52> /usr/bin/ on debian.
17:02	<vagrantc> /usr/bin
17:02	this is hardy
17:03	<stgraber> hmm, right I tried on the wrong appserv :) this one was Intrepid
17:04	on a working hardy server I get:
17:04	root@xen01:~# sudo -u messagebus /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork
17:04	Failed to drop supplementary groups: Operation not permitted
17:04	<vagrantc> i just get a segfault again ... strace spits out a bunch of stuff
17:06	the only upgrade that seems like it might cause issues was an upgrade to libc6 ...
17:07	everything else was pretty much firefox related upgrades ... i guess a few python updates ...
17:07	<warren> is nbd-client -persist proven stable now?
17:08	stgraber: also what cases are there where -persist helps? if the connection broke it isn't likely to succeed?
17:09	<stgraber> warren: it'll for ltsp-cluster where we are running nbd with some HA stuff, the connection will break and reconnect to another server
17:10	warren: in cas you have too many remaining nbd-server (not cleanly closed link) on the NBD server, you can also do a "killall nbd-server" and it'll work (all the clients will reconnect instead of just getting disconnected)
17:11	vagrantc: looks like my hardy server doesn't have the new libc6, I'm doing the update and wil see if that makes it to segfault too.
17:11	<vagrantc> stgraber: thanks for taking the risk :)
17:12	<alkisg> ogra, if you have 1 min, about localized ldm in intrepid (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/233923). I'm trying to make it display Greek (I manually put ldm.mo in the chroot, /usr/share/locale/el/LC_MESSAGES), but no luck. Any hints? :)
17:12	<stgraber> vagrantc: it's a test server :)
17:12	<ogra> alkisg, nope, but i saw the bug and will take a look next week
17:12	<vagrantc> stgraber: is it wise to use hardy-updates on a production server?
17:12	<alkisg> ogra, thanks
17:12	<stgraber> vagrantc: yes
17:13	<ogra> vagrantc, yes
17:13	vagrantc, -proposed is not
17:13	<stgraber> vagrantc: using -proposed would be bad but -updates and -security should always be enabled
17:13	doh, ogra was faster
17:13	<ogra> updates have to go through a hard quarantaine in hardy-proposed before going to -updates
17:15	<vagrantc> is it bad to remove libc6-i686 which removes ubuntu-minimal on a server that uses libc6-xen ?
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17:16	<stgraber> vagrantc: is your server a Xen VM or a Xen host ?
17:16	<vagrantc> stgraber: DomU
17:17	it's running inside another server
17:17	* vagrantc wouldn't run ubuntu on bare metal :)
17:17	<ogra> haha
17:17	<stgraber> xen01 5 512 1 -b---- 1.9
17:18	that's my Hardy test server :)
17:18	* ogra currently feels the pain of running debian on bare metal
17:18	<ogra> you need a welder to make everything work :P
17:18	<vagrantc> but at least you can go blind staring at the pretty sparks.
17:18	<ogra> well
17:19	as much as i love welding, i perfer it on hardware rather than software
17:19	<stgraber> vagrantc: ok, just rebooted the VM and dbus-daemon is here
17:19	<vagrantc> i downgraded and no love.
17:22	<stgraber> root@xen01:~# dpkg -l \| grep libc6
17:22	ii libc6 2.7-10ubuntu4 GNU C Library: Shared libraries
17:24	<vagrantc> does dbus depend on certain kernel features?
17:24	as... it's running a debian etch kernel :)
17:24	but it's been working fine up until last week
17:25	<stgraber> oh, though we may have a big difference (other than the Dom0 OS :)), my system is amd64.
17:26	<vagrantc> this is i386
17:26	<stgraber> vagrantc: did you check /var/log/dpkg.log to see if anything else has been changed since last time your system worked ?
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17:27	<stgraber> ogra: hey, could you answer that question I asked a bit before about updating Ubuntu packages ? (23:42 your time)
17:27	<ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "upgrades in the last couple weeks" (12 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/18
17:28	<stgraber> ok, so libc that must be :)
17:29	<ogra> stgraber, you need mkdst
17:30	pull the ltsp and mkdst branches, cd into the ltsp trunk branch and run ../mkdst/mkdst tag; ../mkdst/mkdst tar
17:30	push the ltsp branch afterwards
17:31	<stgraber> ok, same for the ldm-trunk branch I guess ?
17:31	* vagrantc always tagged manually ...
17:32	<ogra> yeah, same
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17:32	<ogra> indeed you can tag manually
17:32	<vagrantc> you'll have to manually update release.conf (or whatever file is referenced by release.conf)
17:32	<ogra> or even copy in the debian dir from the package and run debcommit -r
17:32	yeah, if you tag manually dont forget to adjust release.conf
17:33	<vagrantc> mkdst tag updates release.conf ?
17:35	<ogra> yeah
17:36	errr, no
17:36	errr
17:36	yes, if you call it woth a tag number
17:36	*with
17:37	<vagrantc> i haven't yet figured out the finer points of mkdst. i use it in the crudest sense and manually handle the tagging :)
17:37	<ogra> ask warren :)
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17:59	<stgraber> ogra: ok, ldm is done, just waiting for my builder to generate the test debs. ltsp seems to be quite a lot harder, should I just take Debian's packaging and update it ? (we have 5.1.22 and debian has 5.1.24) ?
18:01	<ogra> not sure i'll get a new upstream approved ten days before RC
18:06	<stgraber> right ...
18:07	<ogra> so take our package and probably add a patch system
18:07	<stgraber> yeah, I can do that for sure but looking at ldm, I'd just take all changes from 2.0.12 :)
18:08	<ogra> indeed
18:12	<stgraber> for ltsp, I'd take most changes from 5.1.24 to 5.1.25, 5.1.23 -> 5.1.24 is basically renaming xrexec so we can probably go without that change (thought I'd need to make sure no script is using the new naming ...)
18:16	<vagrantc> the localapp plugin to ldm uses the new naming ...
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18:16	<vagrantc> and at some point, the localapp plugin was moved from ldm to ltsp
18:17	<stgraber> vagrantc: that chanage is already done in current ubuntu, only problem is the new naming
18:18	<vagrantc> stgraber: figured i'd mention it
18:26	<stgraber> ogra: so what's the best ? cherry-picking the changes I have in my buglist for ltsp-cluster (sudoers, LDM_RUNONCE, --prompt-rootpass, udev, PULSE_SERVER and ltsp-cluster script) or convince slangasek to let us upload a new ltsp ? :)
18:27	<ogra> i guess the latter is better for us, use the first as fallabck
18:33	<vagrantc> stgraber: another coutesy ... try and let folks know via irc when you're about to tag :)
18:34	<stgraber> vagrantc: oops, right. Will do next time, sorry.
18:35	<vagrantc> stgraber: not a major deal, as people can always tag again ... but just some of the cross-distro ettiquette we established for ltsp
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18:41	<ogra> aha, armel-debs.applieddata.net has proper packages ... debian-ports.org is totally broken
18:43	<vagrantc> armel is in lenny properly now ...
18:43	so it shouldn't need any oddball mirrors at all
18:43	<ogra> ftp.debian.org didnt work
18:44	beyond that i want sid :)
18:44	<vagrantc> well, ftp.debian.org has been deprecated for something like 6 years now
18:44	they may have finally disabled it
18:44	<ogra> oh
18:44	whats the defaul now ?
18:44	+t
18:45	<vagrantc> ftp.COUNTRY.debian.org
18:45	<ogra> ah
18:45	<vagrantc> typically the two-letter thingy
18:45	<ogra> yep
18:45	<vagrantc> ftp.de.debian.org is probably a good one for you, unlinvoke-rc.d dbus start * Starting system message bus dbus
18:45	Segmentation fault
18:45	invoke-rc.d: initscript dbus, action "start" failed.
18:45	ess
18:45	gah
18:45	my touchpad is really sensitive
18:46	<ogra> lol
18:47	<vagrantc> unless you're traveling is what i meant to say
18:48	<ogra> lets see what dist-upgrade says after update
18:49	yeah, it gets all packages from ftp.de.debian.org
18:50	<vagrantc> hope that works better for ya
18:50	* vagrantc notes this is an odd day
18:50	<vagrantc> me playing with ubuntu, ogra playing with debian.
18:50	<ogra> heh
18:51	simply because there is no ubuntu arm port
18:51	<vagrantc> ah
18:52	<ogra> there is mojo and i was hoping to upgrade my deban from it
18:52	but they use armv6el as binary name :(
18:52	and debian only uses armel
18:52	<vagrantc> oh fun
18:52	<ogra> so i cant get the packages without recompiling the world
18:54	the biggest fun is that the n800 shuts down the wlan every 5 min
19:01	<stgraber> ogra: let's hope these stats will help :) otherwise I'm fine filling bugs for these 10 changes and creating 10 patches but I'm not sure we want to maintain that ...
19:01	<ogra> yeah, 10 patches would be odd
19:02	though i have done that before its a pain fo rlater SRUs
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19:07	<stgraber> ogra: I'll now do the same with ldm but that'll be even faster :)
19:07	<ogra> :)
19:24	<stgraber> looks like our dear slangasek vanished :)
19:26	<ogra> yeah :(
19:26	* ogra will do the same soon though
19:26	<ogra> 2:30am
19:28	<stgraber> yeah :)
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20:06	<stgraber> ogra: I'm filing some bugs so I can close them in the changelog, sorry for the spam :)
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23:44	<warren> stgraber: you failed to use a proper prefix in your checkin
23:44	stgraber: the -persist checkin pertains only to Debian and Ubuntu. Everyone else doesn't use that.
23:44	stgraber: just for future reference
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23:50	<stgraber> warren: oh, right. Thanks.
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