IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 April 2017 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:57 | <dragon788> have you guys looked at using the Ubuntu cloud images as the base @vagrantc ?
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| 01:58 | <vagrantc> would make it hard to use Debian :P
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| 01:59 | <vagrantc> likely to move things towards ltsp-pnp chrootless installs being the default/recommended method for installing LTSP in the future
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| 02:00 | to bring it in sync with practice of the recommendations we've been making it
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| 02:01 | but there are some use-cases for chroots like alternate architectures (e.g. i386 and/or armhf clients, amd64 server), so we'll want to have some documentation showing how to support something like that
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| 02:22 | <dragon788> lol, this is true, are there Debian cloud images?
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| 02:22 | is there a roadmap on the site that shows the intended workflows?
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| 02:24 | <vagrantc> roadmap would be ambitious
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| 02:25 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:LTSPPamNotes
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| 02:25 | that's for the "kill off LDM" part
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| 02:26 | there are also plans to replace lts.conf with ltspd ...
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| 02:26 | <dragon788> hmmm
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| 02:26 | <vagrantc> and goodbye ltsp-build-client
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| 02:26 | <dragon788> any reason you couldn't build an image in Docker and then export the tar, other than it's probably missing some essentials bits like drivers unless you make a "fat" docker?
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| 02:28 | <vagrantc> the whole point of the new approach is you can build the image any way you want
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| 02:28 | <dragon788> having never used LTSP other than probably through a fork or whatever "NoTouch" has done to make a similar thin client solution
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| 02:28 | oh nice!
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| 02:28 | <vagrantc> the default basically being that you install your server with whatever applications you want available to the clients, and then build the image out of the server's install
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| 02:28 | <dragon788> I'd probably end up using Packer to output some sort of image then, I really like "infrastructure as code"
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| 02:28 | <vagrantc> sanitizing some things, of course
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| 02:29 | container tools might likely miss some key things needed for full-blown OS images, like you mentioned
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| 02:30 | <dragon788> I mostly fell in here because of my interest in PiNet, but I also volunteer at a tech camp where the kids have laptops but could also utilize more powerful machines for some tasks if there was an easy way to set things up (LTSP ftw)
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| 02:30 | <vagrantc> thin clients tend to be pretty underwhelming, these days
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| 02:31 | software just isn't written in a way that makes it work anymore
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| 02:31 | and "just web browsing" is a full multi-media platform these days.
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| 02:31 | <dragon788> yeah, and really Chromebooks ARE thin clients, the server just happens to be the webb
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| 02:32 | <vagrantc> so, LTSP fat clients by default for the future ... which really reduces the server load
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| 02:32 | <dragon788> the main place I'd see the thin client model still working is in classrooms where you want all the students to have the same resources and have it easy to reset, though Clonezilla/DRBL make that pretty quick work with even small SSDs anymore
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| 02:32 | <vagrantc> and any hardware produced in the last 5-7 years will probably perform better as a fat client anyways
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| 02:33 | dragon788: that's still feasible with LTSP fat clients
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| 02:33 | dragon788: they're still network booted off of a single OS image
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| 02:33 | i *thought* pinet defaulted to fat clients
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| 02:34 | <dragon788> yeah, I haven't set it up yet but I got the impression it loads the OS to RAM or local cache rather than being a true "thin" client
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| 02:34 | <vagrantc> there are some ideas kicking around to also cache the image to local media, and update it as-needed.
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| 02:34 | dragon788: i'm pretty sure they use LTSP's fat client support.
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| 02:36 | <dragon788> ahh yeah, Novell Zenworks has an option like that for reimaging machines, they maintain a small "maintenance" partition that holds the image that you can use to refresh the OS, you can choose whether to just blow away the OS or only update the imaging partition when you run operations against a system
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| 02:44 | <vagrantc> biggest problem is just getting enough free time to implement all this stuff, of course
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| 02:44 | we've gotten a lot of stuff proof-of-concepted ... but haven't spent the time to take it much past that
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| 15:41 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> hi.
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| 15:41 | anybody here?
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| 15:45 | need some help with epoptes ...
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> eu^dyndsl-092-25: what help?
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| 16:19 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> I want epoptes to run like this: epoptes-client starts and STILL runs when a user has logged off
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| 16:19 | it doesn't work here...
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| 16:23 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> it's like this: the process "/usr/bin/python /usr/bin/twistd --pidfile /var/run/epoptes.pid --logfile /var/log/epoptes.log epoptes" runs as root and keeps running
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| 16:24 | but the process "socat -T 60 openssl-connect: ..." stops running when a User logs off. So I cant use epoptes to run remote commands any more ... no connection any more
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> eu^dyndsl-092-25: twistd is the epoptes server
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| 16:29 | But you're talking about epoptes client
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| 16:29 | So I don't understand what is it that you want...
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| 16:30 | There are 2 epoptes-client processes. One for the system, which runs even before login
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| 16:30 | And one for the session (user), which runs after login and exits at logout
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| 16:31 | So, you are supposed to have access to all the clients through the root epoptes-client process, even if they have logged out
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| 16:31 | Are you running LTSP (netbooted clients)?
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| 16:40 | * alkisg notices there's a half an our lag between replies... :D | |
| 16:40 | <alkisg> *hour
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| 16:42 | <gehidore> such is the world of IRC
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| 18:07 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> ok. we are talking about the epoptes-clients, you're right. I heard about a way to control the clients from the "master-client" even if no user is logged in. And that does not work here...
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| 18:08 | and no: there's no LTSP running here
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| 18:09 | (sorry, ... of course no lag but simply afk :))
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| 18:12 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> and you're right: the process which keeps running is twistd ...
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| 18:14 | but I nevertheless can't control any client as soon as no user is logged in any more. The icon of these client change to something like a "switched off" sign
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> eu^dyndsl-092-25: see this image: http://ts.sch.gr/mediawiki/images/b/b3/0.5.7_epoptes_startup.png
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| 18:30 | Logged on clients show thumbnails
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| 18:30 | Logged of clients are green (thin clients), blue (fat clients) or red (standalone clients)
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| 18:30 | If your don't see red "monitors" when they're logged off, your setup is wrong
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| 18:30 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> no, here it looks like this: https://ask.linuxmuster.net/uploads/default/original/1X/a858f90d17f8bafcf77365671382fec842f10018.png
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> I don't see logged of clients there
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| 18:31 | !vnc-edide
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| 18:31 | <ltsp> vnc-edide: To share your screen with me, open Epoptes → Help menu → Remote support → Host: srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr, and click the Connect button
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| 18:31 | <alkisg> If you want, share your screen with me to see why.
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| 18:32 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> the 3 clients at the beginning are STILL running ... but epoptes thinks that they are switched OFF
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> It might be a bug or it might be a misconfiguration
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| 18:32 | I can take a look if you want
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| 18:33 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> no possible from here. the setup does not run ... it's a school
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| 18:33 | <alkisg> I maintain 1000+ schools, but I don't understand what "the setup does not run" mean
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| 18:33 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> sorry, no client is running at the moment
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| 18:33 | <alkisg> If you mean that you don't have access now, then come some other time when you do have access
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| 18:34 | Do you have access to the server?
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| 18:34 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> only via ssh
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| 18:35 | ah, you mean the epoptes-"main-"client now, right?
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| 18:35 | the one from where to control the rest? no that one is switched off as well at the moment
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> The epoptes server is the main pc which runs the epoptes GUI
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| 18:35 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> ok, in that case: NO.
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> OK, then come back when you have access there
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| 18:36 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> where are you? any time-shift to germany?
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> Greece, 2 hours difference
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| 18:36 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> ok. no problem then.
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| 18:37 | should th process "socat ..." still run when a user has logged out?
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| 18:37 | maybe that's the problem?!
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> There are 2 socat processes
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| 18:37 | One runs as root, one as user
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| 18:37 | So the one as root is supposed to run, yes
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| 18:37 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> ok, then that's the problem
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| 18:38 | here's just one
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> Which distro/version is that?
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| 18:38 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> ubuntu 16.04 LTS
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> Maybe you have misconfigured networking
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| 18:38 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> and the root process should be there when the system starts, right?
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> And your network only runs after login
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| 18:38 | This is a setting in network manager, unrelated to epoptes
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| 18:39 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> network works fine as the clients are booting via DHCP --> PXE --> LINBO --> UBUNTU
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> What is linbo/
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| 18:39 | ?
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| 18:39 | Maybe that's the one that has issues...
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| 18:40 | Because you say "it works fine", and i hear "it breaks if-up events"
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| 18:41 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> it's a software to repair clients over the net ... I'm quite sure that it has nothing to do with that
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| 18:41 | <alkisg> Does it manage networking?
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| 18:41 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> yes, it's online ... IP is correct
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| 18:41 | <alkisg> OK, then that's the problem
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| 18:41 | It breaks the network if-up events
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| 18:41 | LTSP had that issue too until I fixed it
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| 18:42 | (LTSP also manages the network)
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| 18:42 | Epoptes runs from if-up, so because of limbo bugs, it never runs
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| 18:42 | The bug is in linbo
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| 18:42 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> but after linbo the "normal" ubuntu kernel is booting ... and the network connection is made again via ubuntu
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> Do the clients have local disks?
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| 18:42 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> yes
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| 18:43 | normal clients with ssd hdd
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> What is the output of `cat /etc/network/interfaces`?
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| 18:44 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> "nothing" ... just # interfaces(5) file used by ifup(8) and ifdown(8) auto lo iface lo inet loopback
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| 18:44 | <alkisg> Is that on a client, or on the server?
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| 18:45 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> it's a client. nothing configured there. but as the server ist the same image it will be the same there
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> And you're certain that linbo doesn't write to that file/
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| 18:45 | ?
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| 18:46 | A second question would be, what is the output of `ls /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/` ?
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| 18:46 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> no. I'm sure. linbo is using its own kernel
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| 18:47 | ls /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ --> nothing
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> Then you don't have a network before login
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| 18:47 | Are you using network manager?
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| 18:48 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> ok, that's possible. Often the connection is made when lightdm is already there ... ... a little icon on the top right corner ...
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| 18:48 | two arrows when connected
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> The epoptes-client root process runs from /etc/network/if-up.d
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| 18:49 | Network manager calls that when it gets online
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| 18:49 | To have networking before login, you need to check the "allow connection for all users" or something
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| 18:49 | (in the connection dialog)
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| 18:49 | This then writes the connection to /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections
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| 18:50 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> ok. so the problem is on ubuntu-side, ja?
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> The result is that the client always has a connection, even when it's logged out, and you can see it in epoptes
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| 18:50 | I believe so. Client access would be required to verify it.
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| 18:50 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> Ok! I will try this, ok? maybe it helps
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| 18:51 | otherwise I'll reconnect and we can try it with a remote-admin-session, ok?
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> Those check boxes: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7776/17325199982_801290e172_z.jpg
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| 18:52 | Sure, if you find me available...
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| 18:52 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> ok. thank you for support
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| 18:52 | I will try it!
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 18:53 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> would be great if that was the solution!
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| 18:53 | epoptes is really great! Fast and stable! Good work :)
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| 18:53 | <alkisg> :)
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| 18:53 | Let's hope funding is found to continue it
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| 18:54 | <eu^dyndsl-092-25> yes! Have to go now.... cu and thanks
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> bb
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| 19:45 | <SharpTrickster> hi, im reading the documentation on PiNet and LTSP and I was wondering if anyone was sucessful creating a PC server with RetroPie image and shared ROM files to boot several Raspberry Pis on a switch
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| 19:46 | any advices or suggestions on this one?
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