IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 February 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:20 | <alkisg> Yey, new LTSP/LDM :)
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| 14:15 | <brentb> good morning everyone
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| 14:19 | <brentb> With some help last week I was able to install ltsp using the ltsp-pnp. It is now up and running, but I have a strange error I was hoping to get some help with.
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| 14:20 | When I network boot and connect, it is showing the wireless icon instead of the ethernet icon. On top of that, it shows there is no connection, but I do have internet connection.
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| 14:28 | <sbalneav> Does the machine actually have a wireless card?
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| 14:28 | <brentb> the physical machine booting, yes
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| 14:32 | <sbalneav> That's probably why.
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| 14:33 | Network Manager seems to like to give priority to the wireless card.
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| 14:36 | <brentb> sorry, got pulled away for an IT issue.
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| 14:37 | hmm, I can try turning off the wifi card (physical switch) or disabling the card via device manager?
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| 14:38 | <sbalneav> Simplest would be disabling the wifi in bios.
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| 14:38 | That will require the least amount of effort.
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| 14:40 | <brentb> ah, i could try that. I just noticed that I already have the physical switch for wifi turned off. I will try the bios change.
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| 14:48 | <alkisg_away> brentb: that's network manager running, but it's not allowed to manage the ethernet card of ltsp, so as to prevent users from disconnecting it
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> It's there so that you can manage other cards if you have them, or add VPN networks etc
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| 14:49 | If you don't want that, you can remove it from lts.conf RM_SESSION_SERVICES directive
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| 14:50 | Sorry, RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES, like this:
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| 14:50 | RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES="apache2 bluetooth clamav-daemon clamav-freshclam dnsmasq mysql nbd-server network-manager nfs-kernel-server nmbd php5-fpm shared-folders smbd ssh squid3 whoopsie x2goserver"
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| 14:50 | Removing network manager also removes the applet from ltsp fat clients
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| 14:53 | <brentb> Oh, interesting
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| 14:55 | I suppose it does not harm anything, so I don't need to remove it. I thought it was a bug or misconfiguration
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> Nope, it's a feature :)
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| 14:59 | <brentb> Yesterday I think you mentioned testing the thin vs thick client, where was that setting to toggle between?
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| 14:59 | right now it is running at whatever the default is.
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> sudo ltsp-config lts.conf, if you haven't done that already,
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| 15:07 | then sudo nano /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386.conf,
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| 15:07 | and put LTSP_FATCLIENT=False under the [Default] section there
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| 15:45 | <brentb> I don't have that directory... I have /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf
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| 15:46 | I see a default area in there that I can add the line to.
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| 15:47 | Do I need to "update the client image" after modifying this file?
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> No, you just need to restart the clients
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| 15:48 | If you installed with amd64 cd, you can only boot 64bit clients now
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| 15:50 | <brentb> I don't think that will be a problem, but if it becomes one I can re-install. I have been keeping notes on how to install.
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| 15:51 | <Mazhive> is ther some one who can help me , ive been set up a debian 7 as a ltsp and build the client arch i386 and amd64 still my client laptop does not boot up.
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| 15:52 | my ltsp has no dhcp this is done by my router.
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| 15:52 | set up the dhcp options into the router..
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> Mazhive: did you follow a tutorial, some wiki page?
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| 16:05 | <Mazhive> using debian wheezy it's install automatic.. apt-get install ltsp-server
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| 16:05 | ltsp-build-client
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| 16:05 | etc
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| 16:06 | made sure it did not start dhcp
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| 16:06 | after that change dhcp options in my cisco router
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| 16:07 | i thought this should work now.. but along the way propably something went wrong..
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| 16:07 | or.. forgotten..
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> Did you put next-server, boot-filename, and rootpath in your router? 3 things?
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| 16:14 | <Mazhive> yes.. wait ill copy the dns masq
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| 16:15 | https://paste.fedoraproject.org/319934/54948133/
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> dhcp-option=17,/opt/ltsp/i386
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> ltsp has an example ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf for you to see the directives, but I think that's ^ the one you're missing
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| 16:31 | <Mazhive_one> yep i just rebooted my router i saw a misconfiguration
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> vagrantc: good job on releasing ltsp/ldm :)
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i largely just uploaded, you did most of the work... and whoever it was that came up with the ldm multi-screen patch
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> though i did catch a bugfix here and there
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> I'm not 100% sure that uploading that patch was a good idea, we'll see...
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| 18:20 | * vagrantc neither | |
| 18:21 | <alkisg> I'm afraid in some cases people will see a blank screen while they have a single-monitor (and a ghost monitor) setup...
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> it could be really annoying with hidden screens
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> vagrantc: is there any chance that you could upload a new (small) release of epoptes, in the next e.g. 3-4 days? Phantomas was thinking of fixing an issue with screen locking...
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| 18:24 | If Phantomas fixes it in e.g. 2 days, and you upload e.g. in 4, with medium priority, it can still make it for 16.04
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> alkisg: happy to
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| 18:25 | if that's the plan, i'll hold off on backporting to jessie till then too
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Cool! It's up to Phantomas as he also has some exams, hopefully we'll hear from him within a couple of days...
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| 18:26 | I think I also made epoptes lintian-free
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| 18:26 | * vagrantc claps! | |
| 18:29 | <alkisg> Ah, about mentioning revisions in bzr commits like "r2689" etc, ok, I'll stop doing that in case we ever switch to git _and_ try to preserve history...
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| 18:30 | I didn't know git didn't have a serial number for commits
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| 18:30 | It's strange that they don't list one, since history is supposed to be immutable
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| 18:31 | (of course it wouldn't be the same when 2 branches merge, but we don't plan to merge old history, ever...)
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it just has sha1sums
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| 18:32 | history in git is not at all immutable
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> So it would be possible for e.g. poettering to merge commits #1000 to #10000 from systemd, and other devs would pull, and get their history rewritten?!
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> sort of. it's just different
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| 18:36 | the concept of a linear history with git basically doesn't exist
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| 18:37 | it maintains many parallel universes
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| 18:37 | which is good for quantum state
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| 18:37 | * alkisg fears some devs read too many stories from the marvel universe(s)... :D | |
| 18:38 | * vagrantc has been reading 1800s sci-fi lately | |
| 18:41 | <ogra_> do you recommend that before learning git ? to understand the multiverse concept first ?
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| 18:41 | <alkisg> In reality though, I don't think r2689 will ever have a different number whatever VCS we use, it's just that git doesn't like to display a counter there
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| 18:41 | If we did rewrite history, it could change, but we don't do that, so...
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| 18:41 | <vagrantc> ogra_: well, really parallel universes didn't really come into the literature until the early-mid 1900s
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| 18:42 | <ogra_> yeah...
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| 18:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: even if we never switched VCSes, i still think referencing a commit by number means to know what it's referencing i have to look up the commit ... which is cumbersome
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| 18:43 | alkisg: so i thank you for your offer to switch habits :)
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> But I do want to reference the other commit...
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| 18:43 | So that readers can then see what was undone, and why...
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| 18:44 | I can stop using a serial number, and I can put some extra documentation there, but I still want to reference the original commit
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| 18:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if you could at least include some english text for context in addition to the commit number, i would really like that
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| 18:44 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 18:45 | Btw, if git allows rewritting history, we could easily replace rXXXX with git's SHA-1 sums while migrating :)
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| 18:45 | <vagrantc> too much hassle
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> And it's easier to see the other commit then, good UIs support clicking on such hyperlinks
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| 18:46 | Nah, I've done it many many times while changing forum software + servers (URLs), while maintaining users + posts
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| 18:47 | Ah, a more serious issue...
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| 18:47 | Intel and AMD decided to put microcode blobs in the kernel
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| 18:47 | So, each initrd is now tailored (by update-initramfs) to the current CPU the LTSP server has
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| 18:48 | <vagrantc> with git-remote-bzr it pushes back and forth, so conversion happens on the fly, and so rewriting commits isn't really viable
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| 18:48 | alkisg: ouch!
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| 18:48 | <alkisg> So, an Intel "X" cpu on the server, will have microcode for "X", and it won't have microcode for Intel's "Y" nor AMD's "Z" processors
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| 18:48 | We can modify the ltsp server to include all the microcode, but it makes the initrd a bit larger
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| 18:49 | <vagrantc> right, that's what i figured
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| 18:49 | <maldridge> how much is "a bit larger"
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> Or we can hope that the microcode isn't too important and can be loaded later on from the real system, after the initramfs stage
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| 18:50 | * vagrantc has always liked being able to swap disks without having to worry about compatibility in general | |
| 18:50 | <maldridge> in my experience you can run happily without microcode
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> I did some tests but I don't remember the results, in general the microcode is a few KB, but there are hundreds of them, and will be more in the future
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| 18:52 | E.g. one of the recent bugs fixed was a specific multiplication with specific operands
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| 18:52 | Hopefully the initramfs won't be affected by such bugs, and then a service can load the microcode from the real system
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| 18:53 | The weird thing is that they just append the microcode, they don't really include it in the initramfs cpio
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| 18:53 | It's supported by the kernel, but it makes zcat initrd | cpio -i fail
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> ugh
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| 18:56 | hopefully it has some check to validate the microcode is appropriate for the CPU...
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| 18:57 | <alkisg> Yup, it does
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| 18:57 | cat /etc/default/intel-microcode
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| 18:57 | That's where we can play with intel settings
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| 19:01 | Increase in size: from 36968783 to 37711485
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| 19:01 | ...if we also include AMD's, let's say 1 MB larger
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| 19:02 | (it's lame that we have such a big initramfs though, it can't be uncompressed in under 100 MB RAM...)
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| 19:03 | They should use squashfs instead, and keep it compressed even in RAM :D
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> then you have the overhead of needing some kind of overlay
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| 19:09 | or some kind of tmpfs mounts at a few points
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| 19:09 | which i guess isn't all that hard
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| 19:57 | <alkisg> vagrantc: sometimes I'm wondering if it wouldn't be much faster to provide the initramfs and the init-ltsp.d part in a read-only NFS file system, which would then pivot_root to the nbd cow system... afaik, the kernel does have some basic nfs support embedded, doesn't it?
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i doubt we'll be able to get the kernels to enable built-in NFS support.
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| 19:58 | i mean, technically, yes, but in a distribution kernel? not likely to happen
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I have this: CONFIG_NFS_COMMON=y
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| 19:59 | Isn't that enough?
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> no
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> (by default)
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you also need CONFIG_NFS_*
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> CONFIG_NFS_SWAP=y
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| 20:00 | CONFIG_NFS_V4_1=y
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| 20:00 | CONFIG_NFS_V4_2=y
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> and an NFS root option
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> CONFIG_NFS_FS=m ?
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> CONFIG_NFS_ROOT ?
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| 20:01 | er, CONFIG_ROOT_NFS
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> No
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| 20:01 | Isn't that a kernel cmdline option?
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc> it requires kernel support
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc> was happy to abandon that so many years ago
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> OK so the stock kernel can't netboot... it would be nice if it could, even with just the undi stack...
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> not without an initramfs... :P
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> I was seeing all those NFS*=y options and I thought it would be supported without an initramfs
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| 20:03 | * vagrantc is trying to figure out why building the ltsp package embeds dates in the *.mo files, but calling the same commands manually doesn't | |
| 20:03 | <vagrantc> er, embeds the current date
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| 20:04 | i think the translations are currently only for ltsp-build-client
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| 20:05 | and are largely out of date
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| 20:08 | * alkisg thinks we need to find a sponsor and rewrite the whole thing almost from scratch as ltsp 6 :) | |
| 20:12 | <vagrantc> there's something to be said for that
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| 20:13 | but the bounties campaign is going so well, this might slow that down!
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| 20:14 | <alkisg> Hahaha
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| 20:14 | Well, only 1 person commented there on the list so it didn't gain any traction at all
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| 20:14 | And the google summer of code idea was turned down by jammcq...
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> oh wow, i think i finally figured it out
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| 20:36 | <vagrantc> -$(DOMAIN).pot: $(GETTEXTFILES)
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| 20:36 | +$(DOMAIN).pot: $(shell xgettext -L Shell -o $(DOMAIN).pot $(GETTEXTFILES))
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| 20:36 | hah, line-breaks didn't represent that correctly
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| 20:41 | <yisraeldov> \join
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| 21:01 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i think you merged some updates to libpam-sshauth ... do you plan to make a new upstream release?
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| 21:02 | sbalneav: there's a trivial build failure due to packaging that i haven't fixed on debian for some time, as i wasn't sure of the state of libpam-sshauth
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| 21:43 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Sure, I could bump the version number. I'll do it this week.
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