IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 27 December 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:05 | <alkisg> !nfsmount
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| 05:05 | <ltsp> Error: "nfsmount" is not a valid command.
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| 05:11 | <cyberorg> alkisg, hi, we use AOE and we don't use ltsp-update- script
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| 05:11 | <alkisg> cyberorg: nice, could you also tell me your default pxelinux.cfg command line?
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| 05:12 | Basically the KERNEL and APPEND lines from there...
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| 05:13 | <cyberorg> https://sourceforge.net/p/kiwi-ltsp/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/kiwi-ltsp/ltsp/include/kiwi-ltsp-functions.sh
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| 05:14 | <alkisg> Ah, very nice, thank you
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| 05:14 | <cyberorg> see setup_pxe() setup_pxe_boot_menu() and after
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| 05:17 | pxelinux.cfg/default looks something like this http://cyberorg.co.in/default
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| 05:18 | <alkisg> cyberorg: also, you're not using nbi.img images, are you?
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| 05:18 | <cyberorg> no
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| 05:19 | <alkisg> cyberorg: any real benefits to using aoe vs using nbd?
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| 05:22 | <cyberorg> nbd has been hit and miss, AOE always worked flawlessly https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=776027
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| 05:24 | i think kiwi also supports images over NFS besides plain nfs root export
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| 05:26 | <cyberorg> we use clicfs for ltsp image, but now with squashfs xz will probably go back to using squashfs
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| 05:26 | <alkisg> Ah you're using the old style configuration for nbd, with port numbers instead of image names
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| 05:27 | That's been deprecated for years and it might be why it's broken...
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| 05:27 | <cyberorg> yeah, as AOE worked never bothered to move to name based nbd
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| 05:29 | if all distros move to single initrd creation tool then common code for ltsp makes sense for this part, may be we should all use dracut :)
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| 05:29 | <alkisg> Did you have problems with AOE and ethernet flow control, on networks with 1 gbps servers and 100 mbps clients?
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| 05:29 | cyberorg: I don't think debian and ubuntu can use dracut...
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| 05:30 | It's just about pxe configuration though, not about initrd generation
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| 05:30 | <cyberorg> dont have it in your repositories?
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| 05:30 | <alkisg> There's no reason to change a distro default tools just for ltsp
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| 05:30 | debian and ubuntu use initramfs-tools, there's no reason for ltsp to try to change that
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| 05:31 | If the distros ever decide they want to use a single tool, fine, ltsp will follow then...
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| 05:33 | <cyberorg> "Another issue we currently have in our distribution is maintaining 3 different initrd implementations : mkinitd (for installed system), kiwi (for generated image) and installation initrd (for installer)"
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| 05:33 | https://features.opensuse.org/310491
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| 05:35 | we now also have dracut available to play with :)
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| 05:38 | <alkisg> I haven't looked into what dracut provides over initramfs-tools that would make debian switch to it...
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| 05:39 | I think it was too simplistic and they didn't even consider using it...
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| 05:40 | (by default, that is, while it _is_ available as an option...)
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| 05:41 | <cyberorg> yeah, available as option is good, if fedora, gentoo and suse also have it then we can create common script to use dracut to create initrd for ltsp for all distros
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| 05:42 | or have it autodetect in ltsp-update- script and use if available
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| 05:42 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 05:42 | It's much _less_ work for ltsp to use the distro defaults...
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| 05:44 | <cyberorg> so each distro can have identical features in ltsp implementation, unlike now, we use AOE+clicfs, gentoo uses dracut with something else, ubuntu uses nbd and debian uses nfs
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| 05:45 | <cyberorg> either way as long as it works no issues there :)
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| 05:46 | <alkisg> I don't think dracut would help in the ltsp distro-maintainers to agree on a default method to serve the image
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| 05:46 | For example, debian and ubuntu both support nfs and nbd out of the box; they just don't agree on which one should be the default
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| 05:47 | <cyberorg> yup :)
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| 05:47 | * alkisg waves to vagrantc | |
| 05:48 | <cyberorg> with common tool at least the choices would be identical, what defaults are used is not important
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| 05:49 | but as i said it is not that important
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| 05:49 | <alkisg> I think all initramfs's support all methods... nbd, nfs, aoe...
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| 05:50 | <cyberorg> cool, i thought aoe was missing
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| 05:50 | <alkisg> What we're missing are the ltsp scripts to configure them... we can't rely on kiwi for that
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| 05:50 | We should invest on ltsp-config instead
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| 05:52 | <cyberorg> kiwi has no scripts to configure them, that was kiwi-ltsp(scripts to build & configure ltsp using kiwi imaging tool)
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| 05:52 | <alkisg> Right, those are the parts that ltsp developers should agree on
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| 05:53 | To provide a common set of tools to configure ltsp even if the underlaying tools are different
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| 05:53 | E.g. `ltsp-config aoe` whether one uses initramfs-tools or dracut or anything else...
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| 05:54 | <cyberorg> yeah that would be nice
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| 06:02 | * vagrantc waves to the now missing alkisg | |
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| 06:13 | * vagrantc waves to alkisg | |
| 06:14 | <alkisg> I'm trying to set up an ltsp-pnp-nfs environment... :P
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| 06:14 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, for better or worse, i have the symlinks implementation as well as editable pxelinux.cfg/default implementation
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| 06:14 | alkisg: mounting the image over NFS?
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| 06:14 | <alkisg> mount --bind / /opt/ltsp/i386 :P
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| 06:14 | <vagrantc> eeyk!
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| 06:15 | <alkisg> mount -o remount,ro /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 06:15 | +export :P
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| 06:15 | <vagrantc> nothing excluded at all, eh?
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| 06:15 | <alkisg> Yes... the other file systems like /proc etc aren't there, so I don't see why NFS doesn't like that
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| 06:15 | ltsp-pnp should be able to boot off of that
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| 06:16 | * vagrantc is more worried about leaking secret things from /etc | |
| 06:16 | <alkisg> I'm exposing only to my VM subnet
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| 06:16 | host-only networking
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| 06:18 | <vagrantc> so only for virtual machines... ?
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| 06:18 | just for development testing?
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| 06:19 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 06:19 | If that fails, I'll just rsync / to /opt/ltsp/i386 and export that one instead...
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| 06:20 | <vagrantc> the NFS image stuff was pretty cool.
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| 06:22 | <alkisg> I've seen problems with flow control on 1gbps server/ 100 mbps client installations
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| 06:22 | if for some reason AoE didn't have those flow control problems, I'd switch to it the same day :)
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| 06:22 | <vagrantc> problems with flow control using what?
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| 06:22 | <alkisg> ...those problems make the network 10 times slower...
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| 06:22 | <vagrantc> ouch.
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| 06:22 | <alkisg> Whatever ip-based
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| 06:23 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 06:23 | <alkisg> probably even ethernet-based, probably
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| 06:23 | *s/probably//
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| 06:23 | The server tries to send data to pc01, and that one then complains because the server is sending them too fast and its buffers are full,
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| 06:23 | the server is then expected to pause for a while and not send data to pc01
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| 06:24 | The flow control problem is if the server decides to pause and not send data to _any_ pc :)
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| 06:24 | ...which is the case in most cheap switches/network cards etc
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> Whoops it seems 14.04 is having various problems mounting from nfs...
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| 11:48 | <alkisg> !nbd-client
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| 11:48 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 11:54 | <alkisg> cyberorg: do these numbers seem right to you? http://paste.debian.net/72695/
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| 11:54 | I.e. is NBD 13 times faster than AoE?
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| 11:54 | Or is it a problem with vbox?
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| 12:00 | <cyberorg> alkisg, no idea
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| 12:00 | * alkisg boots a real client to test... | |
| 12:08 | <alkisg> With 100 mbps clients they appear to be about the same... /me wants to test flow control with aoe too
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| 12:16 | <cyberorg> openstack also uses nbd to serve images, wonder if they ran into the issue you are talking about
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> Maybe they want to route them, aoe is local ethernet only
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> Waaait, so, AoE then doesn't care at all about the IP-based networking, right?!
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| 13:11 | We could allow network manager to manage the network cards of the clients, then...
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> http://metsahovi.aalto.fi/en/research/projects/vlbi_research/mro/ata/
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| 15:59 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: You here?
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| 16:30 | <alkisg> !learn overlayfs as modprobe overlayfs; mount -t overlayfs -o upperdir=/cow,lowerdir=/rofs overlayfs /root
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| 16:30 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 17:00 | <ogra_`> is that mainline yet ? else you should probably add a note
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| 17:01 | (i know it was proposed for 3.10 ... but dont know if it actually landed)
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> No idea, it's there as a module on ubuntu though
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| 17:01 | Add a note where?
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| 17:02 | <ogra_`> to the bot response ...
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| 17:02 | that it is only available in certain distros and from a certain kernel version on
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| 17:02 | (ubuntu has it as distro patch since years ... others wont)
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> Ah, never mind, it was just a personal note...
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| 17:10 | <ogra_`> ah, k
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> Yeah others are still using aufs, it has a lot less problems
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| 17:10 | overlayfs is too buggy
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| 17:10 | <ogra_`> overlayfs is the upstream way
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> "to be"
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| 17:10 | <ogra_`> well, it was proposed for 3.10
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| 17:10 | and linus agreed to pull it in
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| 17:10 | but i dont know if he actually did
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> Until it's upstream and stable, I'd much rather keep using aufs instead of getting problems with ssh sockets etc..
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| 17:52 | <alkisg> So, steps to use AoE on Debian/Ubuntu thin clients:
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| 17:52 | 1) (server)# apt-get install vblade; vblade -r 0 0 eth0 /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img (or edit /etc/vblade.conf)
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| 17:52 | 2) (chroot)# echo aoe >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules; update-initramfs -u; (server)# ltsp-update-kernels
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| 17:52 | 3) remove nfs/nbd from pxelinux.cfg/default, and put this: root=/dev/etherd/e0.0
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| 17:54 | I'll put some support for (2) and (3) in ltsp-trunk, instead of having to do them manually...
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