IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 July 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:05 | <othin> Hi guys! there is a way to put a crontab in a linux thinclinet pro? when i do a reboot, reset itself
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| 13:37 | <section1> hello all...have some questions ..like..my clients are getting black screen on vt7 where should be showing ldm login screen... i run a ps auc in tty1 and i see running xorg and ldm ...not sure what can be the problem.
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| 13:38 | the server need to run Xorg ?
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| 14:09 | <section1> this is a debian server.
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| 14:09 | without xorg running but have xorg installed
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| 14:10 | <mwalters> I think modern debian defaults to the wayland renderer? that might be the issue? I'm just guessing based on what I picked up from other recent debian issues.
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| 14:12 | <section1> mm maybe ...well im trying with ubuntu...either way clients will be ubuntu..so more easy ..really new at ltsp..
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| 14:12 | thanks for the hint mwalters
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| 14:13 | <mwalters> Hmm, I think if wayland was the issue, you'd see the LDM screen, but it'd break after logging in... so I'm not really sure at all ;)
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| 14:14 | but yeah, 18.04 should "work fine" ;)
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| 14:18 | <section1> yeah really i dont see anything when the client start..i have to switch to tty1
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| 14:18 | but yeah i go with 18.04 and test..
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| 14:19 | <mwalters> You could set LDM_SYSLOG=true in lts.conf... that'd get you a root login on tty1
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| 14:19 | from there you could check the syslog for clues
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| 14:20 | (just remove the line when you "go live"... having an open root login on tty1 is definitely a security issue)
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| 14:20 | <section1> trying that..
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| 14:20 | <mwalters> ops, there's another line needed
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| 14:20 | * mwalters digs | |
| 14:21 | <section1> when i change lts.conf i need to update the image ?
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| 14:21 | <mwalters> no, you'll need something else too
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| 14:21 | <section1> with LDM_SYSLOG=true
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| 14:21 | <mwalters> I"m digging
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| 14:21 | <section1> ok
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| 14:21 | <mwalters> that gets LDM to log to syslog, I'm getting my config options confused
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| 14:22 | !root
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| 14:22 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'root', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ROOT_PASSWORD_HASH'
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| 14:23 | <section1> i put a root passwd in the image
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| 14:23 | so i can login in tty
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| 14:24 | <mwalters> oh ok
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| 14:24 | that makes it easy, then... just login as root ;)
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| 14:25 | but yeah, you don't need to update image after editing lts.conf
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| 14:32 | <section1> ok don't see any error about ldm ..but i see an error on xorg not sure is fatal..says: modeset(0): failed to se mode: invalid argument
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| 14:33 | well now i try ubuntu.
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> section1: if you press alt+ctrl+f8/f7 etc etc, can you find xorg running?
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| 14:35 | <section1> don't see anything... if i do a ps aux i see xorg running and ldm running
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| 14:35 | don't see anything... if i do a ps aux i see xorg running and ldm running
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| 14:35 | ops
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> Do you see the same xorg process after 3 seconds, or different?
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| 14:36 | The same process id
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| 14:37 | <section1> yeah i think its different now its not running at all
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| 14:37 | sure its something about videocar and xorg
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> That probably means it can't initialize xorg and fails. Does this command work? xinit
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| 14:37 | Just type xinit without options etc, do you get a terminal at the top left, where you can move the mouse and type?
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| 14:38 | <section1> yeap itts run a xterm
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> So it sounds like a misconfiguration, if xorg is able to run
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| 14:38 | <section1> yeah strange
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> In that xterm,if you run `getltscfg -a`, does it return anything?
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| 14:39 | <section1> and the root xorg.log i don't see that error about modeset
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| 14:39 | yes
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| 14:39 | de lts.conf
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| 14:39 | the*
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> Can you pastebin it? E.g. this sends it to termbin: getltscfg -a | nc termbin.com 9999
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| 14:40 | (if you have working internet)
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| 14:40 | <section1> only 3 ...LDM_DIRECTX LOCALDEV LDM_SYSLOG
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| 14:40 | maybe a ineed one for a resolution ?
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> Try without an lts.conf
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| 14:41 | If you have something wrong there, it might cause crashes
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| 14:41 | <section1> the same happens..
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> OK. How did you build the chroot? Maybe you're missing a package
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| 14:42 | <section1> ltsp-build-client --mount-package-cache
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| 14:43 | then chroot and i add a root pass
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| 14:43 | and update the image
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> And you tried that in debian buster?
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| 14:43 | <section1> debian 9
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> Which one is that?
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| 14:44 | stretch?
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| 14:44 | <section1> yes
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> cat /etc/os-release
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| 14:44 | OK
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| 14:44 | <section1> PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)"
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> So it's a "thin stretch chroot"
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| 14:44 | What are you clients, how much ram, which cpu?
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| 14:46 | <section1> 2gb ram and i3
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| 14:46 | trying with X_MODE_0 = 1024x768 and XRANDR_DISABLE=True
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| 14:46 | too se what happen
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> Then there's no reason to use a thin chroot
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| 14:47 | <section1> yeah i know...but this is only a test
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> I mean, you try with the very hard way, instead of the easy way
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| 14:47 | And the hard way gives you a thin chroot, while the easy way gives you the correct fat chroot
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| 14:47 | So it's both hard to do, and bad results
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| 14:47 | Just go with the easy/good results method
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| 14:48 | I.e. install a buster desktop server or a 18.04 server, and then follow this:
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| 14:48 | !install
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| 14:48 | <ltsp> install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> Use the first link there for debian too, except for the part that mentions a ppa
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| 14:49 | Use the debian-live.iso or the ubuntu-desktop.iso. Don't use ubuntu-server.iso to install the server.
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| 14:49 | <section1> oka
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| 14:49 | alkisg, i need to run xorg in the server ?
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| 14:49 | or only in text mode is sufficient ?
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> section1: it's much easier if the server is a template of the clients
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| 14:50 | <section1> yeah
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> So, if you can do that, do it. Then you can disable xorg if you want
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| 14:50 | <section1> oka
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> I.e. if you can install graphically, install the ubuntu-desktop.iso
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| 14:50 | <section1> try ubuntu 18.04
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| 14:50 | i will try*
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| 14:50 | thankyou guys.
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> OK. Then follow the steps on that page exactly. You should be ready in 1 hour, from the time you download the .iso, to the time the client boots.
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| 14:51 | <section1> i will report back up.success or fail :D
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> I.e. 1 hour to install the server, run ltsp-update-image -c /, and boot client
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| 14:51 | OK
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| 14:51 | <section1> ok
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> Good luck :)
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| 14:51 | <section1> ty :)
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| 17:51 | <section1> when i run add-apt-repository --yes ppa:ts.sch.gr from the guide i get Cannot add PPA: 'ppa:~ts.sch.gr/ubuntu/ppa'. -> Cannot add PPA: 'ppa:~ts.sch.gr/ubuntu/ppa'.
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| 17:51 | ERROR: '~ts.sch.gr' user or team does not exist.
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> section1: did you use copy/paste?
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| 17:53 | You probably misttyped something
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| 17:53 | <section1> mm reading some other post maybe a issue with proxy.
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> section1: did you put ~
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| 17:53 | It doesn't have ~
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| 17:53 | <section1> yeah that shows the console
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| 17:54 | <alkisg> Are you using a proxy?
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| 17:54 | <section1> yeah exits a proxy in the network
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| 17:54 | <alkisg> Does `apt update` work?
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| 17:55 | sudo apt update
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| 17:59 | <section1> yeap
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> What's the output of: env | grep -i proxy
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| 18:00 | Also, you're using 18.04, not 19.xx, right?
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| 18:00 | <section1> yes 18.x
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| 18:00 | <alkisg> 18.04 or 18.10?
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| 18:00 | 18.10 isn't supported
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| 18:01 | <section1> http_proxy=http://192.168.0.1:3128/
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| 18:01 | .04
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| 18:01 | Ubuntu 18.04.2 LTS
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| 18:01 | strange i don't see any connection on the gw
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| 18:01 | proxy
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> It sounds very strange that sudo apt works but sudo add-apt-repository doesn't
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| 18:02 | Are you sure you're not using e.g. "sudo -i" in the second case, thus losing the proxy?
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| 18:02 | try: sudo -E add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr
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| 18:02 | <section1> yeah i think i now what is
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| 18:03 | dnsmasq fuckup the dns
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| 18:03 | <alkisg> You installed dnsmasq before the ppa?!
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| 18:03 | <section1> yea
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| 18:03 | <alkisg> It's important to follow the steps in order :)
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| 18:03 | <section1> its working now
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| 18:04 | yes i fuckup in that
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> Do (a), chrootless
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| 18:05 | <section1> sure ?
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| 18:06 | ok
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> Yes, chrootless is stable and easier
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| 18:06 | <mwalters> as someone who didn't... do (a), chrootless ;)
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| 18:06 | <section1> oka i go with that
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| 18:07 | that takes the info for the client with /
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| 18:07 | ?
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 18:07 | <section1> from the root server
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| 18:07 | ok
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> While removing sensitive data
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| 18:07 | Like passwords, accounts etc
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| 18:07 | <section1> thx guys
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> np
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| 18:07 | <section1> nice
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| 18:17 | ok now i booted and i can login fine in ubu
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| 18:17 | for example i open firefox i see it running in the client output of ps aux
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| 18:17 | that is because is running in the client ?
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| 18:18 | <mwalters> yes
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| 18:18 | <section1> maybe because its detect that have much ram ?
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| 18:18 | how i disable that so i can test the apps on the server
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| 18:18 | <mwalters> !thin
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| 18:18 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'thin', but I do know about these similar topics: 'thin-clients-bandwidth'
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| 18:19 | <mwalters> I think... set LTSP_FATCLIENT=False in lts.conf?
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| 18:19 | <section1> ok i gogole that
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| 18:19 | thanks mwalters
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| 18:19 | <mwalters> np :)
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| 18:19 | most settings will be in lts.conf, the man page is very long, but helpful: `man lts.conf`
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| 18:20 | most ltsp specific settings, anyways ;)
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| 18:21 | note: even when we used thin clients back on 14.04, we still ran the browser on the client. Anything that redraws frequently will run pretty poorly unless run on the client
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| 18:24 | <section1> yeah
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> section1: if your client is i3, why would you want to run apps on the server?!
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| 18:24 | <section1> i want to probe to my boss that running browser in the server don't is a good idea
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> prove, ok
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| 18:24 | <section1> no this test box is an i3
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 18:25 | <ltsp> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 18:25 | <section1> the real thin client i don't know the hw will have...sorry about my english
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> Tell him that he'll need 2.5 gbps per client :P
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| 18:25 | !cheap-client
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| 18:25 | <ltsp> cheap-client: https://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-c_11262/?attr=2081-1279
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| 18:25 | <section1> alkisg, lol
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> Even cheap clients like that are better in fat mode than thin clients
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| 18:25 | <mwalters> hey, 10gbe switches are... still super expensive, just kidding ;)
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| 18:26 | <section1> yeah
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| 18:26 | spend all the money in switch and server hardware...non sense
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Thin clients will be fine again in 10 years or so, when google stadia will have convinced nvidia to give us hardware encoding of multiple hdmi streams :D
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| 18:27 | Even with 10 gbps switch and a monster server, fat clients still go better for normal tasks like web surfing
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| 18:27 | Of course thin clients do still have uses, but they're not appropriate for normal use
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| 18:49 | * alkisg managed to get go-md2man to work properly with option and indentation etc; the solution was that "a newer go-md2man package is needed" :D https://github.com/cpuguy83/go-md2man/issues/27#issuecomment-515856608 | |
| 18:50 | <mwalters> lol
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| 18:50 | debian and ubuntu packages out of date? no way! ;)
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> Oh well we'll have lower-quality ltsp5 and ltsp19 man pages for a couple of more years
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| 19:11 | <section1> this is crazy but if a shutdown ubuntu client shutdows the server :D
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| 19:11 | <alkisg> section1: thin client? which desktop environment?
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| 19:12 | <section1> yes thin client..and gnome
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| 19:12 | LTSP_FATCLIENT=False the only option on the lts
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| 19:12 | conf
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| 19:12 | <alkisg> You can configure it not to allow remote clients to shut down the server
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| 19:12 | other environments have it as the default
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| 19:13 | Gnome had its own thoughts :)
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| 19:13 | There's an option in policykit about it
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| 19:13 | <mwalters> oh, lol
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> using xdmcp or what?
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| 19:16 | <alkisg> Normal LTSP thin clients
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| 19:17 | <vagrantc> i don't see how it could even shut down the server
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| 19:17 | <alkisg> GNOME UI => select shutdown
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| 19:17 | systemd picks up the user request, shut downs the server
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| 19:17 | *shuts down
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| 19:18 | <section1> yeah
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| 19:18 | <alkisg> Thin client, uses ldm, logs in to gnome, the desktop runs on the server; even opening a terminal and running "shutdown" without root shuts down the server
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| 19:19 | policykit there has options to allow remote or only local users to do that
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| 19:19 | So it needs to be enabled only for local users
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| 19:20 | <section1> and the thin clients how is supposed to shutdown when the person don't need it anymore ?
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| 19:20 | btw
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| 19:20 | <alkisg> In the mate that the page proposes, shutdown logs out the thin client, then he can shut down from LDM
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| 19:20 | <section1> the thin client if i open somethin i get a black window
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> oh ... something used to block that from working...
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| 19:21 | * alkisg really stopped caring about thin clients :) xfreerdp/x2go should be more than enough for this. | |
| 19:22 | <alkisg> sunweaver even adds upstream support to mate for things like that, over x2go
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| 19:24 | BTW, in ltsp19 I'm defaulting to --cleanup=1 in ltsp-update-image, does anyone think this is a bad idea?
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| 19:24 | <vagrantc> not i!
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| 19:25 | <alkisg> I.e. if someone is using a VM as the source, the users will be omitted from squashfs; but if someone adds a user in a chroot on purpose, he'd need to pass --cleanup=0
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| 19:25 | Great :)
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> the list of excluded files is configurable?
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| 19:25 | <alkisg> Yes, but it's a regex now
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> aslong as there's a way
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| 19:25 | <alkisg> /etc/ltsp/image.excludes was wildcard based, now it's regex, to allow us e.g. to avoid all the logs.gz.[0-9]
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| 19:36 | <alkisg> Does it make sense to allow ltsp-update-image --revert (or) --revert=1 (or) --revert=0 ? Or those options that default to false, should not allow =x?
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| 19:36 | While e.g. now that --cleanup is the default, it's required to allow: --cleanup=0
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| 19:42 | * vagrantc never liked 0/1 for true/false because of shell vs. all other languages basically being opposite | |
| 19:43 | <alkisg> If one starts the true/false things though, he gets into yes/no, on/off, and people even start asking for localization of these :D
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| 19:43 | And code gets complicated; other packages sourcing our .confs don't always have functions similar to "boolean_is_false"
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| 19:44 | <vagrantc> but i don't think the answer is to use numeric booleans
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| 19:45 | * vagrantc is partial to true/false exactly and no case variations and ... no localization | |
| 19:45 | <alkisg> systemd uses yes/no in its configs
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| 19:46 | <vagrantc> that's fine by me
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| 19:47 | <alkisg> And if a user misstypes "Yes", we consider it "no"? :)
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| 19:50 | https://yaml.org/type/bool.html
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> ideally, you'd error out
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| 19:50 | never liked implicit booleans
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| 19:50 | <alkisg> Regexp: y|Y|yes|Yes|YES|n|N|no|No|NO |true|True|TRUE|false|False|FALSE |on|On|ON|off|Off|OFF
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> as far as i'm concerned, yes != Yes != "i like feta"
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> That's why I preferred 0/1, I can't imagine someone reading "-b, --backup=0|1" and thinking "what does 0 there mean?"
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> 0 means success in shell.
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| 19:53 | <alkisg> Error codes are not boolean
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| 19:53 | It's an exit code, an integer
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| 19:53 | <vagrantc> when i see 0 and 1 in configuration files, i always have to look up the documentation
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| 19:53 | because i've seen 0 mean both yes and i've also seen it mean no
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| 19:54 | does systemd support all the above cases?
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| 19:54 | <alkisg> I think so
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| 19:54 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 19:54 | <alkisg> xorg supported even more
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| 19:54 | including 0/1
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| 19:57 | <section1> i can say that running the thin client with default ubuntu desktop(gnome) don't work ..i get black windows..maybe something with render or don't know but i try and install xfce and works slow but works.
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| 19:57 | thanks guys for the help...very awesome channel
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> yw
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| 20:05 | <section1> byes
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> vagrantc: you mentioned you didn't like "applets", any alternative suggestions before it's ...too late? :D ltsp tools?
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 20:38 | modules?
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| 20:38 | subcommand?
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| 20:40 | <alkisg> "the `ltsp image` subcommand generates a squashfs image..."
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| 20:40 | "the `ltsp image` module generates a squashfs image..."
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| 20:40 | "the `ltsp image` applet generates a squashfs image..."
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| 20:40 | I think a native speaker like you should decide, I don't have the "feeling" to do it
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| 20:41 | <vagrantc> not that git is to be emulated for user interface issues, but it just calls them "commands"
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> git has the benefit that it's actually using verbs there, while in our case, they're not
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> some others call them subcommands
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> git commit => is a verb, ltsp ipxe => isn't
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> Can we call them commands if they're not verbs? Then ok, commands sounds find to me...
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| 20:43 | _COMMAND="ipxe" in the code though, sounds like something that we want to execute, not the name of the running "applet"...
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc> subcommand is also used by a few things, it's just a bit long
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> Works for me...
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc> since these are all commandline commands, i treat the whole thing "ltsp image" as a single command in my mind
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| 20:45 | it's just an implementation detail of PATH ... it could just as easily be ltsp-image and ltsp-ipxe
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> Actually, ltsp has its own man page and its own options, and each subcommand its own man page and its own options, e.g.
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| 20:47 | ltsp --base-dir=/opt/ltsp --overwrite dnsmasq --dns=1 --proxy-dhcp=0
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| 20:47 | The "overwrite" there is a global flag, it can't go after "dnsmasq"
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| 20:47 | And it only appears in the ltsp man page
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| 20:47 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 20:48 | that's fine; i'm not suggesting to change that ... just suggesting about avoiding getting too caught up in the terminology around the verb-fulness of "command" vs. "subcommand" etc.
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| 20:49 | <alkisg> Gotcha. I'll see if changing them all to "commands" is readable enough...
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> sometimes non-native speakers have a better eye for what makes sense, too, since native speakers often just fuzzy match without thinking too hard
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| 21:31 | <alkisg> The manpages look more beautiful when read via `man`, than online as .md: https://github.com/eellak/gsoc2019-ltsp/blob/master/man/ltsp-image.8.md
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| 21:32 | Can someone try to read the "IMAGE TYPES" and "VM IMAGES" sections in the URL above, and tell me if he can understand how to use virtual machines as ltsp sources?
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