IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 May 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:40 | <work_alkisg> !ltsp-pnp
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| 02:40 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 02:41 | <work_alkisg> dilophosaur: follow that ^ guide, it's the "official" one
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| 02:41 | What do you mean 'desktop manager is nowhere to be found'? Do you mean the panel?
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| 03:18 | <gdi2k> is ltsp-pnp the preferred (or better supported) way to deploy LTSP these days?
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| 03:40 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 03:40 | <alkisg> gdi2k: it depends on your needs, but I think more people are using it rather than the classic setup
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| 03:40 | If you want to deploy both fat and thin clients, then it's probably the best way to go
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| 03:41 | If you e.g. only want a chroot for xfreerdp, there's no need for ltsp-pnp
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| 03:49 | <gdi2k> alkisg, thanks, interesting to hear. Maybe we'll go that route when we upgrade to the next LTS relate in 2016...
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| 12:16 | <professor> hi
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| 13:48 | <work_alkisg> Hello
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| 15:01 | <geekgirl> When using LTSP with FAT clients. (edubuntu 14.04) the time indicator on the bar is not there on the clients. indicator-datetime is installed and I can see the option to put the time on the toolbar but it doesnt actually work. I have users complaining that the time is not displayed. Luckily that seems to be the only complaint they have so I must be doing something right if thats all they can dig up. ;)
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> anything in the user's ~/.xsession-errors showing why it might not be starting?
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| 15:11 | <geekgirl> nothing about time indicator in there at all... Funny i tried to install in chroot and it said it was already installed. Maybe I need to purge it and redo because when I try to run that command from terminal on the client I get "not found"
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| 15:13 | <vagrantc> is it in the chroot but not in the NBD image?
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| 15:16 | <geekgirl> usually everything I install in chroot shows up on the image after the image update. so im confused. Am i missing something?
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> geekgirl: what desktop environment are you using, unity or gnome-flashback?
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| 15:18 | * alkisg was debugging a serious issue with unity on 14.04 + fat clients... | |
| 15:18 | <geekgirl> unity
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| 15:19 | <alkisg> And you're getting the bar on top? I think you're not supposed to get it at all...
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| 15:20 | 14.04 uses upstart to initialize the xsession
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| 15:20 | <geekgirl> It works quite well so far other than the time issue. I have it running in 2 libraries so far. putting it in 8 more. Yes I have a thin gray bar at the top.
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> You do have the left sidebar? http://toastytech.com/guis/ubuntu114defaultunity.jpg
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| 15:22 | And do you have this file? /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/Xsession.d/00upstart
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| 15:22 | <geekgirl> Yes i have the left side bar. The bar at the top is there but it doesnt have anything on it. no time...no menu... I dont care about the menu (that would just confuse patrons) I was just looking for simple time fix.
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| 15:23 | yes i have that file
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| 15:23 | it shows : # Make ubuntu-upstart an alias for ubuntu if grep -q "^$DESKTOP_SESSION\$" /etc/upstart-xsessions; then export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS="/usr/share/upstart/xdg:/etc/xdg" BASESESSION=${1% *} BASESESSION=${BASESESSION##*/} if [ "$BASESESSION" = x-session-manager ]; then BASESESSION=$(basename $(readlink /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager)) fi UPSTART=1 fi
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> INIT_COMMAND_01="printf 'set "gnome-session --session=ubuntu\nDESKTOP_SESSION=ubuntu\nXDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Unity\nPATH=/sbin:\$PATH\n' > /etc/X11/Xsession.d/00before-upstart"
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| 15:24 | Put this ^ in lts.conf
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| 15:24 | And reboot the client
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| 15:24 | Sorry
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| 15:24 | <geekgirl> lol ok standby
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> Hmm I missed a quote, but it has too much quoting
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| 15:25 | Let me find another one...
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| 15:25 | <geekgirl> ok
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> INIT_COMMAND_01="printf 'export DESKTOP_SESSION=ubuntu\nexport SESSIONTYPE=gnome-session\nexport XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Unity\nPATH=/sbin:\$PATH\n' > /etc/X11/Xsession.d/00before-upstart"
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| 15:26 | OK, try that ^ one
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| 15:27 | * alkisg finds it very weird that geekgirl didn't need a menu :D | |
| 15:28 | <alkisg> Unfortunately they don't want to fix that problem in Ubuntu so we'll have to work around it from LTSP
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| 15:29 | <geekgirl> this is for regular users that walk into the library to check their facebook/ect... :) I put icons they need on desktop! They are used to windows. I figure the less options they have, the better! :)
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> :)
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| 15:30 | <geekgirl> Hey that fixed it! Thank you so much!
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> geekgirl: you're lucky, it's been broken for months and I only looked into finding a workaround this morning ;)
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| 15:37 | <geekgirl> awesome timing then!! @alkisg I poked at it for a bit, googled several options that didnt work before i caved and visited here. :)
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc: we'll need that ^ part twice, once for ltsp-client (fat clients) and once for ltsp-server
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| 16:41 | It replaces stgraber's /etc/X11/Xsession.d/40-ltsp-client /etc/X11/Xsession.d/40-ltsp-server
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| 16:41 | I'll put them upstream, not in the packaging, ok?
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| 16:42 | In client/Ubuntu/etc/X11/Xsession.d/00ltsp-client and respectively in ltsp-server
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| 16:43 | stgraber: in 40-ltsp-client and 40-ltsp-server, you've checked for: if ([ "$1" = "default" ] || [ -z "$1" ]) && [ "$(readlink /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager)" = "/usr/bin/gnome-session" ]; then
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| 16:44 | xnox doesn't want to do that in 00upstart, so just for one '-z "$1"' condition, it breaks plain Xsession logins
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| 16:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: wow. that looks messy.
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| 16:45 | alkisg: is that triggered by spaces in session names or something?
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yes, unfortunately Ubuntu thinks that breaking Xsession is trendy, they say that they don't want to support passing an empty session (man Xsession allows it) even if it only costs them a -z check
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| 16:45 | vagrantc: no, the spacing part is another bug, we'll fix that too in the same commit though
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> ugh.
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> Normally the session is determined at 50x11-common_determine-startup
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| 16:46 | Ubuntu wants to determine it at 00upstart
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| 16:46 | So we have to put a script before that
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| 16:46 | <vagrantc> and this is only for 14.04 and earlier, yes?
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| 16:47 | <alkisg> Only for 14.04... in 12.04 it was working, and 16.04 will have systemd :)
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| 16:47 | I haven't looked into the non-LTS versions
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| 16:47 | We can set $DESKTOP_SESSION, it doesn't cost us anything, LDM also sets that
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| 16:47 | But they say that we're not supposed to allow an empty (default) session
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| 16:47 | I don't want to drop support for that when it's only a "-z" away
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| 16:48 | The difference is: Xsession "gnome-session --session=ubuntu"
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| 16:48 | vs plain: Xsession
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| 16:48 | What they say is that the default should be the first ^
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| 16:49 | While Xsession forever supported the second as well... as the default
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| 16:49 | <vagrantc> the problem is that rather than implement gnome-session-ubuntu and setting up alternatives for x-session-manager, they do this wacky "gnome-session --session=ubuntu" thing.
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| 16:50 | and then it's impossible to set up a working alternative
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 16:50 | They say they don't care about alternatives etc
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| 16:50 | <vagrantc> and gnome-session-ubuntu could simply be: exec gnome-session --session=ubuntu
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> That the system should select the "first entry from the DM sessions combo box, alphabetically"
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| 16:50 | Right
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> I don't see why the *have* to break Xsession and alternatives when it's so easy to support them
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| 16:51 | <vagrantc> nor do i.
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> *they
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| 16:51 | Anyway, if stgraber can pull his weight there and convince xnox, that part can be solved in upstart packaging
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| 16:51 | Otherwise we'll have to work around it from ltsp
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| 16:52 | (the alternatives part; while for the $DESKTOP_SESSION part, we'll do that anyway, it's supposed to be part of the DM nowadays)
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so sure, go ahead and commit that madness upstream :)
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| 16:53 | <alkisg> Will do so in Friday :)
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| 16:53 | * vagrantc wonders what the major diff still is | |
| 16:53 | <alkisg> Dunno, I've stopped using the Ubuntu packaging 3 years ago and I haven't had any issues
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| 16:54 | (the greek schools ppa uses you own packaging)
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| 16:54 | Ah, it would be nice though if I had access to the debian ltsp packaging tree
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| 16:54 | Because I have to go through hoops to build a recipe now
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| 16:55 | E.g.: https://code.launchpad.net/~alkisg/ltsp/ldm-debian-packaging
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| 16:55 | <vagrantc> i wonder if i should try using some of the new bzr branching in a single repository support ...
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| 16:55 | <alkisg> Without r973 and r974 there, I can't do the daily builds
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| 16:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: because you pull from -trunk and those patches are already present?
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| 16:56 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 16:56 | I think having working daily builds is a nice way for people to test stuff
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| 16:57 | (or even if not daily, at request)
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| 16:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i just need to give you access to pkg-ltsp on alioth, i think, then ...
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| 16:57 | <alkisg> That'd be cool
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: alkisg-guest?
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| 16:58 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 16:58 | I don't know if you'd prefer to have the debian/ tree upstream in ltsp, and clone it when each stable release is released...
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| 16:59 | E.g. when I wanted to change the defaults to 192.168.67.x, I was able to change it for fedora, altlinux etc as well, if the packaging was upstream I'd do it there too
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| 16:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you're already listed as a member
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| 16:59 | <alkisg> Whooops
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| 16:59 | <vagrantc> i tend not to make updates to other distros
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| 16:59 | * alkisg needs to learn how to commit then | |
| 17:00 | * vagrantc isn't sure how branching works in bzr | |
| 17:00 | <vagrantc> other than forking
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| 17:00 | <alkisg> When a series is released, how do you handle the packaging? Are you pushing it to some special repository?
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| 17:01 | <vagrantc> even if upstream doesn't have the debian dir, i really prefer to have the upstream tree alongside the packaging
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| 17:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: forked branches
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| 17:01 | i think bzr eventually got support for branches within one repository, but by then i had rimarily switched to using git
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| 17:02 | the other radical idea is to switch to git for the debian packaging and just use git-remote-bzr to sync between them
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> vagrantc, for example, what is the URL for the packaging (or complete source) branch of wheezy ltsp?
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> I wouldn't mind keeping the code in github if you prefer to
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| 17:03 | <vagrantc> i was actually able to re-merge the packaging branch in git without terrible conflicts, but i never could figure out how to squash them together again with bzr
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> https://launchpad.net/lightdm ==> see the "series and milestones" there
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| 17:04 | There's the main "trunk" tree, and branched trees for each maintained release
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| 17:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: in theory, it'd be in: https://alioth.debian.org/scm/loggerhead/pkg-ltsp/
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> So you have the code multiple times, and only backport whatever's needed, security fixes etc
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| 17:04 | https://alioth.debian.org/scm/loggerhead/pkg-ltsp/ltsp-debian-packaging/files
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| 17:05 | <vagrantc> in theory that's what i do as well
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| 17:05 | but typically, i make so few modifications that it never matters
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Ah so you have the whole tree there: https://alioth.debian.org/scm/loggerhead/pkg-ltsp/releases/ltsp-5.0.8debian3/files
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| 17:06 | OK, then why not keep the debian/ tree upstream? So that other ltsp committers cannot mess with it?
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> those are quite old, from when bzr didn't support tagging
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> Wait wait, so, debian doesn't have a fixed policy for maintainers to keep one branch for each release, right?
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> basically, 95% of modifications are targeted at unstable, so there are rarely other branches
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| 17:07 | alkisg: there's no policy for how to handle VCS
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> Gotcha
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> it's not even required to use a VCS at all ... though that is generally frowned upon
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> So they only save the uploaded sources, in case the maintainer disappears...
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| 17:08 | <vagrantc> basically, the source tarballs are the VCS ...
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| 17:09 | everything else is up to the maintainer's desired workflow
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| 17:09 | * alkisg would keep the distro subdirs inside the upstream source code then, as long as the maintainer is also an upstream developer | |
| 17:10 | <alkisg> Like we have in epoptes
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| 17:11 | <vagrantc> there are several historical reasons why the debian dir isn't in upstream
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> np, just saying
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| 17:11 | <vagrantc> * the fedora folks complained about all that pointless debian stuff
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 17:11 | And yet they have their .specs upstream? :)
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| 17:12 | <vagrantc> * ubuntu and debian were generating lots of conflicts and doing things very differently
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| 17:12 | * it actually used to be problematic to have the debian dir upstream
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> We solved that part though, both with different upstream distro dirs (Ubuntu/share/*...), and with X-Ubuntu-* in debian/control
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| 17:12 | <vagrantc> and VENDOR in debian/rules
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| 17:13 | i suspect there are a lot of other annoying changes
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> LTSP is distro-specific by design, all we do is override other package's config files etc :)
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| 17:15 | I wouldn't worry about having packaging trees upstream, when we already have much distro-specific code...
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> it's a non-issue now, but it used to be more problematic
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| 17:17 | oh yeah, and because we used to each have our own debian dir in-tree ... resolving the conflicts while preserving history is ... very challenging.
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| 17:17 | i've periodically tried to re-merge them and failed
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| 17:17 | as ltsp-trunk and ltsp-debian-packaging have a common parent in which they each deleted each other's files.
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| 17:18 | or at least, that's where they diverged
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| 17:19 | <alkisg> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9849466/how-to-combine-repositories-into-a-single-one-in-bazaar
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| 17:20 | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1425892/how-do-you-merge-two-git-repositories
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> i think it's different because they share a common parent
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> Ah. Ouch :-/
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| 17:22 | <dilophosaur> Can anyone think of a reason I would be able to pxe boot virtual clients but not physical clients?? When I try to boot with a physical client, server side syslog throws up "failed sending /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 to client ip.
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| 17:24 | <alkisg> Which tftp server?
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| 17:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i also would prefer to have a separate non-upstream branch in which i merge new upstream versions independent of the debian dir
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| 17:24 | <dilophosaur> dnsmasq
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> dilophosaur: I've seen it fail with some bad PXE roms, while tftpd-hpa succeeded there
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| 17:27 | It was very rare, but you might want to try it
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| 17:27 | Does it work with ipxe on the real client?
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| 17:27 | !ipxe
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| 17:27 | <ltsp`> ipxe: iPXE is the successor to the etherboot/gPXE project, and can be used to netboot clients that don't have a NIC ROM with a PXE stack. To add it to grub, see !grub-ipxe. To add it to the Windows boot loader, see !win32-loader. To download floppy, CD or USB images, visit http://ipxe.org or install the ipxe package.
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| 17:27 | <dilophosaur> Interesting. I'll check that out.
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| 17:28 | * vagrantc wonders if using git-remote-bzr to do the git merge and then pushing to bzr would work | |
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