IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 31 July 2013 (all times are UTC)

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08:45	<rickogden> hi all, I was having problems with the shutting down of LTSP clients (they would halt but not power off). I have since altered the command that is run from the LDM greeter to poweroff -fp. I have created a patch for this, and wondered if this is something you would want submitting back to the project?
08:48	<alkisg> No, that makes the client not trigger the shutdown init scripts so it doesnt close the connections to the server and the nbd-server temporary files aren't cleaned up etc
08:48	The nbd-client initscript needs a bit of fixing for better shutdown, but no, poweroff -fp shouldn't be used in any case
08:49	<rickogden> alkisg: I thought that was the case, as it's a bit of a brute force way, but thought I'd offer nonetheless
08:50	<FrozenZia> Morning! Is there an easyish way to force a client to have right-side window controls if my server has left-side? (I'm using ltsp-pnp)
08:50	<alkisg> put an RCFILE_00 command to do that on boot
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09:39	<FrozenZia> alkisg: okay, so RCFILE_00 = some script that I use to set the controls on the right, right?
09:39	<alkisg> Right, or just a single gsettings command without a separate script file
09:40	<Hyperbyte> Or better yet, create a permanent dconf setting
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09:40	* Hyperbyte <3 dconf
09:41	<alkisg> He wants it to be different on the server vs on the (ltsp-pnp) fat clients
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09:49	<Hyperbyte> alkisg, profiles! :)
09:49	dconf profiles. :)
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09:50	<alkisg> Hyperbyte: how can you specify a profile "if hostname=server", and another "if hostname=ltsp*" ?
09:53	<Hyperbyte> https://help.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/dconf-profiles.html.en
09:53	<FrozenZia> for the script option something like this?: gconftool -s --type string /apps/metacity/general/button_layout ":minimize,maximize,close";
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12:30	<joshu> hi anyone using lightdm. I'm working on configuring it and I don't understand what "user-authority-in-system-dir" does
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13:04	<joshu> vmlintu hi are you around?
13:10	<\|\|cw> joshu: and the lightdm don't cover it? it sounds bad
13:11	sounds like it give users rights to change system settings
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13:13	<joshu> hi \|\|cw ok still not clear to me but I'll leave it at its default setting of false.
13:13	\|\|cw do you use lightdm I have some other questions I haven't been able to figure out
13:14	<\|\|cw> I don't, but lightdm's own support applies
13:14	<joshu> \|\|cw what do you mean?
13:14	<\|\|cw> all ltsp does is allow remote login
13:15	lightdm itself would work the same if logged into the local console
13:15	<workingcats> also dont mistake ldm for lightdm. i did that initially
14:18	<Velyks> How well do thinclients on LTSP handle flash media on websites?
14:21	<Hyperbyte> Velyks, depends on the flash media, your LTSP settings and your server/clients hardware and network in between.
14:21	Also depends on the size of the flash media on-screen.
14:22	Generally speaking, it will your thin clients to the limit and things like playing YouTube fullscreen at 1920x1060 resolutions you can forget.
14:22	*push
14:22	<Velyks> What is going to affect the performance of say, watch a youtube video, the most. Thinclient resources?
14:23	<Hyperbyte> Velyks, difficult to stay. I have thin clients with 1.5ghz, 1gb ram and gigabit network... watching youtube and other flash things like games generally work fine
14:23	If I start YouTube fullscreen, bottleneck becomes CPU of client I think.
14:23	*stay -> say.... typos are free today.
14:24	Velyks, generally speaking, your best bet is to avoid flash (by for example using HTML5 video on YouTube and a Firefox HTML5 Xvideo plugin)
14:25	Velyks, or, run Firefox locally on the client. With LTSP you can have desktop on the server and only certain programs on the client.
14:25	Those mix seamlessly
14:27	<Velyks> Hyperbyte: Does it just push it all to the client? Or does it need to be installed on the client
14:28	<vmlintu> joshu: hi
14:28	<joshu> hi vmlintu
14:29	getting closer to a working solution, but still have some config to do. Having some issues with lightdm and I've tried to google, but maybe you know how to solve them
14:29	<Hyperbyte> Velyks, latter.
14:29	<Velyks> Hyperbyte: Can this be done at PXE boot automatiicaly?
14:29	<Hyperbyte> Velyks, installing applications at PXE boot?
14:29	<vmlintu> joshu: user-authority-in-system-dir or something else?
14:29	<Velyks> You said that it needs to be installed on the client. You know what I'll just read up on it
14:30	<Hyperbyte> Velyks, oh
14:30	Velyks, I meant 'in the client image'
14:30	<joshu> vmlintu that's one question I have. I see that you have it set as true in your ltsp-session lightdm.conf
14:30	<Velyks> Oh alright
14:30	<Hyperbyte> With LTSP there is nothing stored on the client. Clients are assumed to have no harddisk.
14:31	If you want to read up on it, check LTSP local apps.
14:32	<vmlintu> joshu: we use nfs home directories with kerberos authentication, so that makes lightdm behave better in that case
14:33	<joshu> ok I see so I'll keep it as false the default.
14:34	vmlintu this user-session=freerdp-session in lightdm.conf doesn't seem to work. lightdm always looks for ubuntu.desktop in /usr/share/xsessions even with this setting
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14:55	<vmlintu> joshu: where have you put freerdp-session.desktop file?
14:56	<joshu> vmlintu /usr/share/xsessions/freerdp-session.desktop.
14:56	<vmlintu> what's in your lightdm.conf?
14:57	<joshu> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/54ac58985c3be8f69cb4
15:00	<vmlintu> joshu: which ubuntu version you were using?
15:00	<joshu> vmlintu 13.04
15:18	<vmlintu> I haven't been really using 13.04, so there might be changes too..
15:18	Are other configuration options working?
15:19	<joshu> I think so maybe it's a bug that it always looks for ubuntu.desktop. I'll just keep it that way no big deal.
15:20	vmlintu I noticed one thing that I want to try and fix.
15:22	If the user has started a session, e.g. ubuntu.desktop which launches xfreerdp. THe user is in the session, but for whatever reason the network connection is down. What happens is that the screen freezes as it's in an RDP session and it does not exit the session and return to the lightdm greeter. I found this option in lightdm.conf # exit-on-failure = True if the daemon should exit if this seat fails
15:22	but it didn't exit the session. I had to go to TTY 1 and restart lightdm
15:26	<vmlintu> joshu: I think exit-on-failure means that if the lightdm seat doesn't start (=no login screen), lightdm should exit
15:26	I'm not 100% sure, though
15:27	<joshu> ok. How would you handle the scenario I explained, so that the user returns to the lightdm login screen if the network connection is down and as a result the session freezes/ stalls, halts?
15:27	<vmlintu> joshu: does xfreerdp exit when that happens?
15:28	<joshu> vmlintu not sure. How can I check?
15:30	<vmlintu> joshu: I mean, does xfreerdp freeze or what do you mean by session freezing/stalling?
15:32	<joshu> vmlintu user is in the freerdp session fullscreen, so the top bar you see at the lightdm login screen is not visible. If I take the network connection down, the user still sees the xfreerdp session in full screen mode, but no mouse or keyboard input works obviously as the connection is broken. The only way to fix it is to do ctrl+alt+f1 and sudo restart lightdm and then I'm back at the login screen.
15:34	vmlintu this is what the user sees as an example
15:34	http://cl.ly/image/1u2Z0Y0C1o2f
15:35	<vmlintu> sounds tricky.. I haven't had to deal with a situation like that myself..
15:36	<joshu> hmm
15:37	<vmlintu> All remote sessions I'm dealing with happen over a fixed wired connection
15:37	<joshu> but when your users login at the lightdm screen and their ltsp session starts, is it also fullscreen, e.g. they can't see the top bar?
15:37	<vmlintu> joshu: what do you mean with top bar?
15:38	My desktop doesn't have a top bar
15:38	<joshu> vmlintu http://cl.ly/image/0z1v25112U37
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15:39	<vmlintu> joshu: you mean the lightdm bar on the top?
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15:40	<joshu> yes
15:40	<vmlintu> that of course goes away when user session starts as it's part of the greeter
15:41	<joshu> yes same for me
15:41	ok I'll have to think about how to restart lightdm if the network dies and the session is open, so that the user can login again and resume
15:44	vmlintu do you enable the VNCServer in your lightdm.conf so that you can remote support users?
15:44	<vmlintu> no
15:46	<\|\|cw> does xdmp even support session suspend and resume?
15:47	<joshu> vmlintu how do you remote support then or you don;t?
15:48	<vmlintu> depends on the case, but we start required processes when needed
15:49	<joshu> so you can remotely start a vnc server if needed?
15:50	<vmlintu> yes
15:52	<joshu> ok. Another thing related to lightdm is on laptops as in my case I can't adjust the brightness using the keyboard brightness keys. I know that on a standard ubuntu install once you login to the unity desktop session the keys work, but at the lightdm login screen they don't. The same is true for when I login to the xfreerdp session. I find this very strange and I can adjust the brightness from the terminal using:
15:52	sudo /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gsd-backlight-helper --set-brightness 255
15:52	or
15:52	echo 10 \| sudo tee /sys/class/backlight/radeon*/brightness
15:53	Someone in #ubuntu suggested that I try to install xbindkeys and create the shortcuts for these commands, but I can't get them to work at the lightdm login screen or session. Do you have any suggestions on how to execute these commands somehow without me dropping to the terminal?
15:54	<vmlintu> I don't have those working in lightdm atm, but they do work in the gnome-fallback session
15:56	<joshu> vmlintu gnome-fallback session?
15:57	<vmlintu> yes
15:57	the desktop I'm using is based on that
15:57	I'm not using unity
16:01	<joshu> ok so if I understand you then from the two screen shots I sent you, login screen and the xfreerdp session, you have not been able to get function keys brightness working in either case?
16:01	unless you're in a gnome-fallback session, which I don't have
16:02	<vmlintu> I've never tried the xfreerdp session
16:04	<joshu> do you have any possible ideas on how to get function keys to work at the login screen or how I can use something like xbindkeys to do it?
16:06	<vmlintu> no, I don't.. I should look into that some day, though
16:07	<joshu> hmm crazy that my user's won't be able to adjust display brightness
16:11	<\|\|cw> um
16:11	are you installing xbindkeys in the chroot?
16:13	if you do it on the server, the command would run on the server, and of course do nothing.
16:13	<joshu> \|\|cw I'm install xbindkeys on the client
16:15	<\|\|cw> can you try something simpler with them, like creating a file in /tmp on the client, to make sure it's not a permissions issue?
16:15	<joshu> \|\|cw btw just to be clear I'm not using ltsp, I'm working with a custom ubuntu 13.04 mini, but discussing my issues regarding lightdm here after vmlintu replied to a question I had. Also the ltsp project has clearly solved some of the things that I need to do without ltsp ;)
16:15	sure \|\|cw I'm open to all suggestions let me try that
16:15	<\|\|cw> ah. so a client that can't PXE boot?
16:16	<joshu> \|\|cw yes laptops in remote locations local OS.
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16:19	<bennabiy> Hello! Is anyone available to help with a little issue I am running into?
16:19	<vmlintu> joshu: btw, are you using any configuration management tool to configure the laptops?
16:21	<joshu> vmlintu right now I'm just developing the system in a VM and as I go testing it on the actual laptop hardware, so I don't know what I'll use to manage, remote support, remote update
16:23	<bennabiy> vmlintu: Do you have experience with Mint and LTSP?
16:23	<vmlintu> joshu: how many will you have?
16:23	bennabiy: I have never tried mint
16:25	<bennabiy> vmlintu: Do you know why an external HDD would not mount on a thin client, while a USB stick will? If I hook the drive up to the server, it will mount, but not on a client
16:25	<joshu> vmlintu 5 laptops, 5 users
16:26	<workingcats> bennabiy, maybe it's just that the thin client's usb power isnt strong enough
16:27	HDs often go to the limit, sometimes beyond the limit, of what USB is spec'd for
16:27	if you have a powered USB hub you can try through that to rule out this issue
16:27	<bennabiy> Hrm... that is a thought
16:27	<vmlintu> bennabiy: I don't remember if there was some lts.conf setting for that.. could be also partitioning or some file system issue
16:28	<bennabiy> workingcats: It is an encrypted drive. Would that have anything to do with it?
16:28	<vmlintu> do you have to enter a passphrase to open it?
16:28	<bennabiy> vmlintu: I thought about that, but the LOCALDEV = True
16:28	<workingcats> bennabiy, depends on how it is encrypted
16:28	<bennabiy> Yes
16:29	<\|\|cw> bennabiy: you'd also need to have the decryption tools install in the chroot/client image
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16:29	<vmlintu> to my knowledge, ltsp doesn't have support for that
16:29	<\|\|cw> you can still verify that the kernel sees the drive via syslog or dmesg
16:29	<bennabiy> \|\|cw: why would that be?
16:30	if the server has the tools
16:30	<\|\|cw> I thought the client mounted it and exported the file tree it back to the server. I may be wrong
16:30	<bennabiy> Or is that why it only works when the drive is physically connected to the server?
16:30	\|\|cw: I will try that
16:30	<vmlintu> bennabiy: the client needs to be able to mount the device itself.. the server doesn't see the device itself, but only the mounted version of it
16:31	<bennabiy> vmlintu: That makes sense
16:32	<\|\|cw> uses ltspfs right?
16:32	<bennabiy> \|\|cw: the external? or in general?
16:32	<joshu> \|\|cw I'm going to try to get xbindkeys working again. Is this the appropriate tool do you think to get the brightness keys working at the lightdm login screen and in the session?
16:33	<\|\|cw> joshu: I really don't know. I'm not sure there's any other options though
16:33	<joshu> \|\|cw I found this http://askubuntu.com/questions/161203/using-mce-remote-at-unity-greeter
16:34	<bennabiy> While I am here, I am also trying to update my client login screen ( which I know how to update the basic theme by editing the images in the theme)
16:34	<joshu> talks about some mce remote getting it to work at the lightdm login screen. Don't know if it applies to what I'm trying to do?
16:35	<bennabiy> Is there a way to update the LDM theme to move where the login prompt is on the screen?
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16:36	<\|\|cw> joshu: hm, that depends on lirc. were you able to verify if xbindkeys was working or not?
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16:37	<joshu> \|\|cw I can get it to work once logged in but not otherwise. Googling to try and understand if it's how xbindkeys is started. Maybe I need an upstart script?
16:38	<\|\|cw> bennabiy: probably best to copy the theme before editing, as updates might overwrite it. http://bootpolish.net/home_ltsp_createacustomldmtheme
16:40	<bennabiy> \|\|cw: I have looked at that site, but it only shows how to change the pictures, and where the themes are stored. Is there a way to edit the greeter-gtkrc file ?
16:41	I will be right back... lunch time :)
16:41	<joshu> \|\|cw from this http://askubuntu.com/questions/261169/who-is-starting-xbindkeys it seems that xbindkeys is starting as the user and that might be why it's not working until I login.
16:44	<\|\|cw> bennabiy: well, it's plain text, but I have no idea how it positions the box
16:45	joshu: maybe you can start it with a script in /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/
16:45	er, lightdm?
16:46	assuming lightdm has a not-to-different startup than ldm
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16:54	<joshu> \|\|cw I'm testing now but an upstart script didn't seem to work
16:57	\|\|cw I'm testing now with desktop-setup-script in the lightdm.conf file
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17:01	<joshu> \|\|cw that didn
17:01	tdidn
17:01	t pops didn't work either
17:04	<bennabiy> \|\|cw: thanks.
17:05	\|\|cw: do you know what encryption package I would need to install on the chroot?
17:06	<\|\|cw> bennabiy: uh, the one for the kind of encryption you use?
17:09	<bennabiy> \|\|cw: I knew it was a stupid question the moment it came out. I was more wondering if there was a general install which would cover the basics (LUKS, etc)
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17:18	<joshu> \|\|cw I;m stuck can't get xbindkeys to work without log gin in.
17:20	<bennabiy> \|\|cw: I already have the cryptsetup / tools installed in the chroot.
17:20	Thoughts?
17:21	<\|\|cw> joshu: take it up with lightDM support channels?
17:21	bennabiy: and? doe sit see the /dev/sd device?
17:22	doe sit then see the partitions?
17:22	does it then see the encryption?
17:22	<bennabiy> I think it is a matter of the power issue on the USB port
17:22	<\|\|cw> so step one is false?
17:22	you can verify this.
17:23	dmesg and.or syslog will usually even say when a device is asking for too much power
17:23	<bennabiy> \|\|cw: should I make a root user on the chroot and check that from the terminal?
17:23	or will it be fine if I am just logged in to the machine?
17:23	through ldm
17:25	\|\|cw: on which machine do I need to check for the dmesg?
17:25	<\|\|cw> the client
17:26	!SCREEN_02
17:26	<ltsp> SCREEN_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
17:26	<bennabiy> So ALT-F1 to the shell and log in as root
17:26	yes
17:26	<\|\|cw> or that, yes
17:26	assuming you've set a root passwd in the chroot
17:28	<bennabiy> \|\|cw ltsp: Thank you. I will check that out and get back to you.
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18:47	<bennabiy> \|\|cw: I hooked it up to a powered hub on the client. It shows it under lsusb, but nothing else.
18:54	<\|\|cw> interesting. is the client usb1.1?
18:54	some usb2 hdd's won't degrade
19:04	<bennabiy> Hrm.
19:04	It was a USB2 hub, but I guess if it was only on a USB1.1 port it would default back down
19:06	<\|\|cw> hubs will often downgrade
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19:30	<bennabiy> \|\|cw it is USB2
19:31	I can mount it through the local terminal, see the data, but nothing makes it to the client Xsession
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19:34	<bennabiy> I cannot figure this out
19:35	BTW, I am using Mint 15 MATE for my server, and the 13.04 for the client
19:35	<\|\|cw> so do you have ltspfs setup?
19:36	<bennabiy> let me check
19:36	yes
19:36	<\|\|cw> if you can get it to mount on the client, that's 1/4 the work. getting it back over the server is the harder part
19:37	<bennabiy> Why will it not pick it up like a normal USB stick?
19:37	<\|\|cw> be cause it's encrypted, and so not normal
19:38	if plain usb stick works, then ltspfs is likely working, and you just need to get the client to mount it and ltspfs to recognize it
19:38	and I have no idea how to do the latter
19:38	it's possible that this is going to require some additions to ltspfs to support encryption
20:03	<bennabiy> Do you think it would help if I updated the CHROOT with an entry in crypttab for the device and made a key to automount it?
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20:07	<\|\|cw> no idea, worth a test though
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20:12	<bennabiy> Got a minute for another question? Is there a way to specify that devices plugged into the server only mount for a specific user and not for everyone logged in?
20:13	I have a few clients, and when I plug in a device to them, it only shows for the logged in user
20:14	I operate personally from the server, so when I plug in a thumbdrive, it is random who it asks to authenticate it, and who owns it
20:15	<\|\|cw> not sure. for cifs I know I can put uid=xxx on the mount options to make a certain user own it, I guess that can be done for vfat as well
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21:03	<bennabiy> well, I will have to try again another day.
21:03	Thank you for all your help
21:03	* bennabiy waves goodbye.
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