IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 March 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:03 | <FrozenZia> ||cw: workingcats: alkisg: Thanks for the tips - pretty sure Alkis got it with the SSE issue, but will verify shortly. MAIN purpose for these terminals at first is running CodeClub training.
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| 07:58 | <khildin> Can anyone direct me on documentation where LTSP X session is explained. I would like to know how LTSP sessions are protected against a MITM (man-in-the-middle) attack...
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| 07:58 | <work_alkisg> !docs
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| 07:58 | <ltsp> docs: For the latest community documentation, see the LTSP wiki at http://wiki.ltsp.org/ For a PDF with official documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 07:59 | <work_alkisg> It's protected because it's inside an ssh tunnel
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| 07:59 | So you may as well read the ssh docs
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| 07:59 | <khildin> thnx... that's what I wanted to hear,... :)
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| 08:00 | <work_alkisg> Of course that's only the default, if you change it using LDM_DIRECTX, it's no longer encrypted
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| 08:00 | !directx
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| 08:00 | <ltsp> directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
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| 09:29 | <FrozenZia> work_alkisg: Ok, yeah, definitely have the SSE problem on that one client. You sent a link to a pkg already. If I'm running ltsp-pnp can I still install that to the i386 chroot (and how exactly? I know enuf to guess that dpkg command will be involved)
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| 09:47 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> FrozenZia: install it to your server and run ltsp-update-image -c /, don't worry it doesn't affect your server
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| 09:48 | Nor your other clients
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| 09:48 | Clicking on the link should launch software-center, no need for dpkg...
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| 09:49 | <FrozenZia> alkisg: Ok, great!!
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| 10:09 | <FrozenZia> Had another issue but had to leave my workshop to go to class. Can't provide a *lot* of information but: I had created 8 students using newusers. So far had just been testing w/student001, but now I got a more modern client set up, tried student002. Student002 *seems* to get authenticated ok, but gets spit back out to login screen. =o(
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| 10:10 | Haven't tried to just login from the server (e.g.) as student002 to see if THAT works.
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| 10:11 | From looking at auth.log it would seem that the client sendsa disconnect request.
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> Try selecting the xterm session from the ldm preferences menu
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| 10:14 | <FrozenZia> I'm also getting lots of black screens w/text about plymouth failure before actually getting nice-looking GUIs, but I've just presumed this is "normal".
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| 10:14 | alkisg: tx, will try as soon as I can get back to the shop.
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| 10:15 | <alkisg> Do you have 12.04 with the greek schools ppa?
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| 10:16 | <FrozenZia> yes.
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| 10:18 | <alkisg> Do you have proprietary graphics drivers installed on your server? lspci -nn -k | grep -A 3 VGA
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| 10:20 | <FrozenZia> I don't *believe* so, but I'll have to verify later. At least I have at no point gone to additional drivers to activate any.
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| 10:20 | <alkisg> They're automatically installed by the ubuntu desktop cd
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| 10:21 | <FrozenZia> Ah.
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| 10:21 | And they... should be removed in this case?
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| 10:21 | <alkisg> Right
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| 10:22 | * alkisg wishes the ubuntu installer had a checkbox to notify users about that, and enable them to avoid it... | |
| 10:22 | <alkisg> But we'll probably try switch to debian, many ubuntu innovations are bad for schools, ltsp etc
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| 10:24 | <FrozenZia> Is the removal just basically an apt-get remove for some number of pkgs?
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> open a terminal and run `jockey-gtk`
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| 10:25 | I don't remember the menu it's in
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| 10:25 | It's the dialog for adding/removing proprietary drivers
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| 10:25 | * FrozenZia has to get off the train... =o( | |
| 10:25 | <FrozenZia> Tx for ur help again, alkis!
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> np
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| 10:44 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, switching to Debian?
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> Well, most of the ubuntu innovations are for kids that like the effects... we don't need those in schools :)
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| 10:45 | On each release it's getting harder and harder to ...undo those innovations
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| 10:46 | E.g. they create unity, it doesn't work with ltsp, ok, we go for gnome-fallback, but the new panel indicator only works for unity...
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| 10:46 | <Hyperbyte> I believe Warren had the same problem with Fedora.
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> ...so we don't have the old one that works, and the ubuntu devs don't care about fallback so they won't fix the new one
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| 10:46 | <Hyperbyte> Fedora is even more bleeding edge technology than Ubuntu.
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| 10:46 | Ever considered going CentOS?
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| 10:47 | <alkisg> They're upstream for many stuff, the problem with ubuntu is that they have a lot of patches for too many packages
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| 10:47 | More than they can maintain properly
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| 10:47 | I haven't really tried any rpm-based distros
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| 10:48 | Debian should be fine, after we spend a few weeks around some rough edges...
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| 10:48 | <Hyperbyte> CentOS might be more suitable for you though, I think. They're really, really behind... but it's rock solid & stable...
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| 10:48 | And they release security updates for years to come.
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> Why would it be better than debian? Isn't that stable too?
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| 10:50 | <Hyperbyte> You should look into it. :-) I'm using CentOS as host OS for all my virtual servers... Ubuntu 12.04 as terminal server OS though, because I really don't want to lag that far behind on my desktop. :)
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> (and we've already packaged many many greek educatinal apps as .debs, made repositories etc, so it'll be hard to redo all this work for rpm)
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| 10:50 | <Hyperbyte> Ah. :)
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| 10:51 | <alkisg> Centos doesn't even support ltsp, does it?
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| 10:51 | <Hyperbyte> Didn't Enslaver make it so it does? :)
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| 10:52 | <alkisg> I don't see him around :)
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| 10:52 | <Hyperbyte> There's LTSP-server packages in CentOS 6.4 repository. 5.4.5
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| 10:55 | <alkisg> No arm support... ok that's not too bad...
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| 10:56 | Supported for 10 years, haha, nice (joke)! :D
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| 10:58 | The following architectures are not supported by CentOS (as of version 6): x86 without Physical Address Extension (PAE) (as of CentOS 6)
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| 10:58 | ...one blocker there...
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| 13:06 | <Hyperbyte> !ltsp-pnp
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| 13:06 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 14:10 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, installation instructions are to install dnsmasq - do I need that?
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| 14:20 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: install it and disable its dhcp functionality if you don't want it
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| 14:20 | It also serves as a tftp and dns server
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| 14:20 | Of course you can also go with tftpd-hpa and isc-dhcpd...
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| 15:46 | <FrozenZia> Hmmm... back at the playground -- "< alkisg> Try selecting the xterm session from the ldm preferences menu"
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| 15:47 | ...not a very good option -- I don't seem to have a choice.
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| 15:48 | My options are select backend, restart, shutdown. (If I'm understanding what alkis means by ldm pref. menu)
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| 15:49 | On my graphics issue, server says no proprietary drivers used.
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| 16:15 | <alkisg_web> FrozenZia: select session
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| 16:16 | <FrozenZia> alkisg_web: U mean on the client, right?
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| 16:16 | <alkisg_web> Yup
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| 16:16 | Above the "select backend" menu
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| 16:18 | <FrozenZia> Nothing there. There was the first time I logged on to a client - I picked language and lubuntu or something...
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| 16:19 | <FrozenZia> lower left corner says "settings", clik that to get the backend question, etc...
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| 16:20 | On the positive side, I now also have Epoptes installed and it seems to look good!
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| 16:20 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg_web, does ltsp-pnp do mkswap nowadays by default? My client hangs for a minute or so at startup with some mkswap stuff...
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| 16:21 | <alkisg_web> swap is automatically enabled for clients with < 800 ram for thin, or 2 gb ram for fat
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| 16:23 | <Hyperbyte> Ah...
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| 16:24 | Okay, I'll leave that.
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| 16:29 | <mench> I am a 100% newb, though I have spent about a day now reading docs an examples. I am going to set up a new LTSP cluster using Ubuntu. I would like to do Active Directory authentication. My question is this: Do I need to install likewise-open to the root server, or the application servers?
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| 16:30 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg_web, hrm, even with NBD_SWAP disabled fat client boot takes around 2 minutes or so. Any idea what could cause this? It's not outputting text, not even when quiet splash is disabled
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| 16:31 | <alkisg_web> Hyperbyte: check dns and /etc/fstab
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| 16:33 | <Hyperbyte> Also, it's not displaying plymouth. Any idea why? :)
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| 16:34 | Hrm, plymouthd error in vt7... assertion terminal something failed....
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| 16:34 | <alkisg_web> It's because I removed plymouth=force_splash for 14.04, and I couldn't leave it for 12.04 on the ppa
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| 16:35 | That assertion was always there, ignore it
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| 16:39 | <Hyperbyte> Can I enable plymouth?
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| 16:40 | <Hyperbyte> DNS is fine by the way, so is fstab. Weirdness....
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| 16:43 | A-ha... it says "Waiting for network configuration". Could this be because I excluded /etc/network/interfaces file from image?
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| 17:03 | <FrozenZia> alkisg_web: Ah, had LDM_FORCE_SESSION in lts.conf
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| 17:04 | ...And now I switched to xterm I was able to log in student002.
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| 17:04 | ...now if only I understood why, but I expect someone will tell me...
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| 17:47 | <smurillo> Hi!
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| 17:48 | I'm a begginer in this LTSP thing and I need somebody to give me a first guide or a light where I can search for detailed information
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| 17:49 | where can I get trustful information about the hardware compatible with LTSP and Ubuntu...
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| 17:49 | specifically HP t410 AiO
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| 17:49 | thanks!
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| 17:57 | <FrozenZia> Welcome, smurillo! Sure you've already been here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 18:00 | <FrozenZia> At least following ahardware-related link there got me to the HP k410 AiO, but holy moley do you really need to spend that kind of money (Starting at: $ 449.00)?
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| 18:02 | <mench> I am a 100% newb, though I have spent about a day now reading docs an examples. I am going to set up a new LTSP cluster using Ubuntu. I would like to do Active Directory authentication. My question is this: Do I need to install likewise-open to the root server, or the application servers?
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| 18:02 | <smurillo> Hi Frozenzia
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| 18:02 | I Have a local provider that can get me a special price
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| 18:03 | also what I want to do is a small lab with 5 or 6 terminals using edubuntu and canonical landscape
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| 18:04 | (did you mean K410 or was it a typo?)
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| 18:05 | I also was looking for logic suply and lucida tech, but the shipping is expensive from china :S
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| 18:10 | <FrozenZia> Typo. I'm on a different keyboard than I normally use. Unfort. I'm still pretty new at all this as well, but I'd guess you could outfit your entire lab with reused hw for $450. Something to consider. Not sure all your requirements, but Epoptes may handle your landscape stuff for you...
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| 18:17 | <smurillo> epoptes, as far as I know, works locally, I need to control remotely my servers... and I can't use reused or refurbished equipment because is a goverment project :(
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> smurillo: as long as the hardware can PXE boot, and can run the distro you want to run, it should work fine with LTSP
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| 18:31 | smurillo: the hp t410 appears to be arm based ... which i'd be very interested in as a thin client, but i wouldn't recommend for someone new to LTSP...
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| 18:31 | smurillo: you really would want an x86 based thin client
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| 18:32 | smurillo: unless you're willing to experiment, and possibly have the experiment not work out.
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| 18:32 | * vagrantc would be interested in seeing how the hp t410 work for ltsp | |
| 18:33 | <vagrantc> smurillo: but HP's zero-client stuff is desgined to work without LTSP... basically as an alternative to LTSP
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| 18:33 | <vagrantc> i.e. the whole OS is on flash on the client
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| 18:40 | <smurillo> jummm I see...
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| 18:42 | <smurillo> T410 has PXE boot, so I'm going to talk to my distributor to get a demo and make some tests, trusting in what you said...
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| 18:43 | I still have a couple months to make tests and show results to my company...
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| 18:45 | <vagrantc> smurillo: an ARM based option will be an ordeal with LTSP ...
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| 18:45 | so i would only suggest that if you really wanted a difficult project
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| 18:46 | * vagrantc forgets that some arm systems claim PXE support, although often it's not *really* PXE, just some form of network booting | |
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| 19:00 | <smurillo> I've been looking for prices, but those thinclients are a little xpensive... this has de advantage to be an AiO... but, as said, I can borrow a couple of them and make some tests. I promise I'll put my results and or questions here!
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| 19:00 | thanks for the help!
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> AiO ?
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| 19:11 | what's "an AiO" ?
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| 19:11 | <smurillo> all in one
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 19:11 | <smurillo> is a monitor with an embedded thinclient
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> right
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| 19:12 | <smurillo> http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/thin-client-solutions/t410.html#tab-graphics-specs
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| 19:18 | <FrozenZia> Totally dissatisfying remedy to my student login problem: Login once from safe mode xterm, immediately afterward from lubuntu session (from same client), and after that login seems to work from anywhere w/no more problems. WHY? =oO
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| 19:19 | Didn't get a chance to test it much, just got all my 8 students logged in in all the right modes..
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| 19:21 | * FrozenZia ready for a relaxing evening..... | |
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| 20:16 | <FrozenZia> alkisg: welcome back -- got my students to login finally, just don't have a clue why. I just posted this explanation here before you came back - my apologies to the channel for repeating this:
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| 20:16 | * alkisg can read the irclogs.. :) | |
| 20:16 | <FrozenZia> remedy to my student login problem: Login once from safe mode xterm, immediately afterward from lubuntu session (from same client), and after that login seems to work from anywhere w/no more problems.
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| 20:17 | * FrozenZia missed not pasting that text by *that* much! | |
| 20:17 | <alkisg> cat .dmrc for one of those users
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| 20:18 | <FrozenZia> I'm back at home, now, of course, but will do tomorrow.
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> It sounds like it's selecting the wrong session at first login, did you specify LDM_SESSION?
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| 20:21 | <FrozenZia> Hmmm - I had LDM_FORCE_SESSION before, which explained why I wasn't seeing a menu to let me select sessions.
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| 20:21 | Not sure about LDM_SESSION.
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| 20:22 | <vagrantc> i think LDM_FORCE_SESSION effectively behaves the same as LDM_SESSION, except it also hides the menu
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| 20:22 | <alkisg> And what was its value?
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| 20:23 | <FrozenZia> /usr/bin/startlubuntu
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| 20:23 | <alkisg> It should be "lubuntu", afaik
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| 20:24 | ls /usr/share/xsessions on a lubuntu machine, to make sure
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| 20:24 | * vagrantc grumbles about breaking backwards compatibility with LDM_SESSION ages ago | |
| 20:26 | <FrozenZia> alkisg: will do.
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| 22:49 | <Leolo_3> ha! ACPI shutdown is failing
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| 22:50 | it does a shutdown -h now, which does a "normal" shutdown, which does service network stop, which of course then prevents NFS from doing anything useful
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| 22:52 | <Leolo_3> (CentOS btw)
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| 23:06 | <Leolo_3> and even if I fix that... when service rpcbind stop gets run, things then stop again
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| 23:09 | <Hyperbyte> Leolo_3, why bother going through the motions?
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| 23:10 | Just poweroff the thing... :)
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| 23:46 | <Leolo_3> I don't know
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| 23:46 | is that what other distros do?
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