IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 22 February 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:33 | <alkisg> I think ldminfod could be modified to become 'ltspinfod', a web-based daemon that gets the client mac/ram/cpu/ip etc and returns both the ldminfod info and the lts.conf info.
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| 00:33 | Making a small web server in python is easy: http://fragments.turtlemeat.com/pythonwebserver.php
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| 00:34 | It would use the same port, 9571. And of course we could continue supporting the old lts.conf way of doing things for some time, for compatibility..
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| 00:34 | Would anyone care to see an example implementation for this?
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| 00:36 | It could even be used to "mark down" some things on the server concerning the client, e.g. which nbd image to serve
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| 00:36 | So, the same port could be used for *all* nbd images
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| 00:36 | That would save us from all the nbd-port trouble, and make any IANA applications easier
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| 01:11 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ltspinfod already existed and did different things... but otherwise very interesting idea.
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| 01:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I mean to replace ldm-server with a more generic ltsp-server
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| 01:12 | (forgot about the name change)
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| 01:12 | Ah sorry I didn't know that
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| 01:13 | <vagrantc> i don't want to move ldminfod into ltsp-server, as ltsp-server pulls in all sorts of dependencies unrelated to being an application server.
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| 01:14 | <alkisg> I don't think it will need any dependencies. So it can even be a different binary package
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| 01:15 | (or it can stay in the ldm package...)
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| 01:15 | The main difference will be that it be called from the initramfs or wherever else the client tries to get lts.conf
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| 01:16 | <vagrantc> if it's broader than ldm, it should move out of ldm, but i don't want to loose the ability to be able to install ldm-server and only pull in dependencies relevent to an application server.
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| 01:16 | <alkisg> (if it gets implemented) it will replace lts.conf completely, and make getltscfg obsolete
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| 01:17 | As the getltscfg functionality will move to the server
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| 01:17 | <vagrantc> so, in that sense, it seems like it might make an additional piece of code above and beyond ldminfod.
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| 01:17 | alkisg: how will that scale to thousands of thin clients hosted by a single server?
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| 01:17 | <alkisg> I don't think it's any different from ldminfod in terms of scalability
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| 01:18 | <vagrantc> ldminfod only hits it once per login, as opposed to every time it needs to look up configuration
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| 01:19 | <alkisg> The client only gets lts.conf a couple of times on each boot
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| 01:19 | And we could add/merge the "login time" one
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| 01:19 | <vagrantc> i like the idea of a single port to figure out which nbd image to use and whatnot.
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| 01:19 | <alkisg> I mean, the client would do: wget server -O /etc/lts.conf
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| 01:20 | It would cache the result, it won't hit the server every time
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| 01:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ah, when you say completely obsolete getltscfg ... i thought you were proposing something else.
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| 01:20 | <alkisg> vagrantc: that new lts.conf will be a directly sourcable file
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| 01:21 | <vagrantc> then we should maybe not call it lts.conf ... but ltsp.conf :)
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| 01:21 | <alkisg> OK
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| 01:21 | I mean that it will only contain info for that specific client
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| 01:21 | <vagrantc> if it breaks compatibility, may as well fix that old bug.
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| 01:21 | <alkisg> Both lts.conf info, and ldm-server info
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| 01:22 | <vagrantc> i'm not convinced that's a good idea yet...
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| 01:22 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 01:22 | I think it's a good idea to know the client mac/ip etc before answering with ldm-server
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| 01:23 | E.g. the admin might want to blacklist some clients from using a specific server
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| 01:23 | Why use a different port/program/configuration interface for a similar set of settings?
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| 01:24 | <vagrantc> if it's done without breaking compatibility, i guess that's cool. but we've already broken ldminfod compatibility at least twice now
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| 01:24 | without discussion
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| 01:24 | so here's the discussion :)
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| 01:24 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 01:25 | * alkisg looks at what ldminfod returns... | |
| 01:25 | <vagrantc> i.e. i'd like an older chroot to be able to get information from a newer server
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| 01:26 | <alkisg> Ugh sucks. That would be better if it was a shell-sourcable output
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| 01:26 | <vagrantc> suppose so.
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| 01:26 | <alkisg> OK, we could do that
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| 01:26 | <vagrantc> but it at least ignores fields it doesn't know about
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| 01:26 | <alkisg> We could `post` a different output if the client doesn't send a mac/ip/ etc
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| 01:26 | <vagrantc> so it's easy to not break future compatibility
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| 01:27 | that's true...
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| 01:27 | <alkisg> The client could also send some kind of version
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| 01:28 | E.g. wget server:9571?mac=xxx<sp-version=xxxx
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| 01:28 | <vagrantc> but we'd also want a newer chroot to be able to handle the output from the older server
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| 01:28 | <alkisg> So we could check if version=null, then return the old style output
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| 01:29 | * alkisg looks at ldm-trunk/screen.d/ldm ... | |
| 01:29 | <vagrantc> if we want forwards and backwards compatibility... it seems better to just implement something new.
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| 01:29 | on a different port...
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| 01:30 | <alkisg> Hmmm where is /var/run/ldm/$SRV parsed from?
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| 01:31 | <vagrantc> src/ldminfo.c
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| 01:31 | hah!
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| 01:32 | " What should happen here, for gutsy+1, is ..."
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| 01:35 | alkisg: well, i'd best turn in for the night.
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| 01:35 | alkisg: i expect all sorts of crazy ideas from you by the time i wake up. :)
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| 01:37 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 01:38 | Yeah, on second thought, it might be better to just implement something new. HTTP GET and POST would break compatibility anyway...
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| 01:58 | <gnunux> hi
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| 03:48 | <Appiah> When inserting a hires pictures in a OO document , The thin clients tend to crash ( you get logged out and your back at the login screen). Is this a issue with pixmaps and low ram on the thin client?
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| 04:59 | <klausade> Appiah: yes, normally it is. it can also be the videoram.
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| 05:53 | <fasaxc> Hi, I heard that 5.2 has better support for Fat Clients, can someone point me at a howto on setting up a fat client (preferrably for Ubuntu Karmic)? Sounds like just what I want to do.
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| 06:33 | <Appiah> klausade: got any idea on how to find out which one is causing the problem?
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> Heh, the new http://xkcd.com/ is fun :)
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| 06:48 | fasaxc: I plan to write such a how to in the next days... pem725 just did it yesterday for Karmic, so he might be able to help you as well.
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| 06:49 | Appiah: how much ram does that client have?
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| 06:56 | <klausade> Appiah: how much ram, and what kind of videocard?
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| 06:57 | <fasaxc> thanks alkisg, if it helps, I tried using the older howto at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients but hit a couple of snags that I couldn't seem to work around. Namely, installing nfs-common failed with an error about starting statd and the LDAP config stage seems to have changed a lot (the apt-get command asked a lot of questions that I couldn't answer)
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| 06:58 | <alkisg> fasaxc: erm, scratch all that and start over :D
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| 06:58 | The new way has absolutely nothing to do with that page
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| 06:58 | You don't need nfs nor ldap
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| 07:00 | OK, I should probably make that how to today. Do you have time to test as I write it, to verify that it works?
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| 07:17 | <Comete> hi
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| 07:19 | <Comete> just update my edubuntu 9.10 with ltsp 5.2 and i still have this "squashfs error" bug when rebooting thinclients, any idea ?
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| 07:35 | <fasaxc> alkisg, yep, I'm happy to help
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| 07:35 | <alkisg> fasaxc: ok, karmic, is it? You'
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| 07:35 | 'll need stgraber's ppa in your sources:
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| 07:35 | !stgraber-ppa
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| 07:35 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "stgraber-ppa" :: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
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| 07:36 | <fasaxc> yep, karmic
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| 07:36 | * alkisg starts writing the how-to, I'll have something ready in 15'. | |
| 07:37 | <fasaxc> cool, I've put the PPA in
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> fasaxc: is the command `add-apt-repository` preinstalled in karmic?
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| 07:38 | <fasaxc> I seem to have it so I think so
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> OK
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| 07:39 | <Comete> could anyone confirm that this bug is stil here at reboot with ltsp 5.2 ?
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> Comete: you need to update the chroot. Updating the server is not enough.
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| 07:40 | <Comete> i have still no sound on my thin clients too
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| 07:40 | alkisg: i did it without success
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| 07:41 | alkisg: i rebuild the chroot and then updated it
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| 07:42 | and the squashfs error is still here
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> Comete: karmic?
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| 07:42 | <Comete> yes
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> You need to put stgraber's ppa *in the chroot* and update again
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| 07:42 | <Comete> alkisg: yes that's what i did
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| 07:46 | another thing gcompris is very slow, unusable, but maybe is it due to my sound problem...
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| 07:47 | sound card is well detected on thinclients
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| 07:48 | i have even heard a sound on one of them when opening a session, but i cannot reproduce this now... strange...
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| 07:49 | i don't know how to solve this problem
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| 07:50 | my server doesn't have a soundcard but i think that's not where the problem is
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| 08:09 | <Comete> ok sound problem seems to be resolved
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| 08:09 | if i put SOUND=True in lts.conf then i have no sound
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| 08:10 | a bug ?
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| 08:10 | but gcompris 9.0 still slow
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| 08:11 | <Comete> :/ no sound problem not resolved
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| 08:13 | <alkisg> fasaxc, pem725: Here's a quick how-to for fat clients, both for Lucid and Karmic. It'd be nice if you could check its validity: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 08:14 | <fasaxc> will do...
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| 08:16 | <Comete> where should i put lts.conf, i've tried in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ but it's seems to have no effect
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| 08:18 | <alkisg> Comete: what do you get with: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l ltsp-client ?
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| 08:21 | <Comete> ltsp-client 5.2-0ubuntu2~ppa1~karmic1
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> Comete: and I suppose you run ltsp-update-image and ltsp-update-kernels, right?
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| 08:22 | *ran
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| 08:23 | <Appiah> klausade: well its mostly HP T5530 , I think they 64mb ram
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| 08:23 | and Via videocard
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| 08:24 | <Comete> alkisg: no because i rebuild the chroot, should i do it ?
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> Appiah: with 64MB RAM you'll definately need swapping
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| 08:24 | <Appiah> alkisg: and no swap = crash ?
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> Appiah: NBD swapping was broken in karmic and maybe in jaunty too, so you'd need some patches from ltsp-trunk to make it work
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| 08:24 | Appiah: pretty much :)
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| 08:25 | <Appiah> I thought the swapping was working ..
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| 08:25 | <alkisg> Comete: how did you add stgraber's repository in the chroot?
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| 08:25 | <Appiah> its a Jaunty install so I guess it could be that
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| 08:25 | so if we switch to PPA all will be well? :)
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| 08:25 | <alkisg> Appiah: nope. We fixed it after 5.2... :(
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| 08:26 | <Comete> alkisg: cp /etc/apt/source.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/
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| 08:26 | <Appiah> alkisg: =/
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> Appiah: you could just change a specific line, do you want me to look for it?
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| 08:26 | <Comete> as it is said in the documentation
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| 08:26 | <Appiah> alkisg: would be nice, I could try it and report back if it works
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> Appiah: are you seeing any swap files in /tmp/* ?
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| 08:26 | <Appiah> sorry I dont have access to ltsp install atm
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| 08:27 | <alkisg> Comete: ok, you've added the repository, you upgraded the chroot. ltsp-update-image is *required* after upgrading your chroot :)
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| 08:28 | <Comete> alkisg: ok i do it now, test it and come back, thanks :)
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| 08:29 | <alkisg> Appiah: in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common, change the line:
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| 08:29 | NBD_PORT=${NBD_PORT:-"9572"}
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| 08:29 | to
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| 08:29 | NBD_PORT=9572
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| 08:29 | <alkisg> Then run sudo ltsp-update-image. That should make swapping work again...
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| 08:30 | <Appiah> ok I will get back with the result!
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> Appiah: before doing the change, check if you have any /tmp/tmp.XXXXXX files of 32MB size, those would mean that swapping was working before.
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| 08:32 | (so that wasn't your problem)
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| 08:33 | <fasaxc> alkisg, I got an error after running the ltsp-build-client command:
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| 08:33 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
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| 08:34 | * E: Malformed line 2 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list (URI parse)
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| 08:34 | is it anything to worry about?
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| 08:35 | The line seems to say "deb deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/stgraber/ppa/ubuntu karmic main"
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| 08:35 | <Appiah> alkisg: ok , thanks
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| 08:36 | <fasaxc> wonder if you don't need the deb in the EXTRA_MIRROR line in your .conf file?
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| 08:37 | <Comete> alkisg: well done ! :) no bug when rebooting now thanks !
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| 08:37 | oh and ldm is in french :)
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| 08:37 | i still this strange sound problem
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| 08:38 | <alkisg> fasaxc: you're right, thanks, removing it...
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| 08:38 | <fasaxc> I'm giving it another go without
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| 08:38 | <Comete> i have sound sometimes when opening a session but not after
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| 08:40 | <fasaxc> the build client command seems to run a lot quicker second time around, guess its caching packages now :-)
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| 08:40 | <alkisg> fasaxc: yup, it's the MOUNT_PACKAGE_DIR="/var/cache/apt/archives" line ;)
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| 08:40 | <Comete> if i open Totem to play a sound file, the speaker icon shows a red cross
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| 08:45 | <fasaxc> alkisg, can I add extra EXTRA_MIRROR lines in ltsp-build-client.conf for e.g. medibuntu? If so, do I add a whole extra EXTA_MIRROR=... or just a new line inside the quotes?
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| 08:46 | <alkisg> fasaxc: http://packages.medibuntu.org/ $DIST free non-free
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| 08:46 | (you can keep the $DIST as it is)
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| 08:46 | and /etc/ltsp/medibuntu.asc in apt-keys
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| 08:46 | fasaxc: but you can also install packages *after* the initial chroot installation, it's easier this way sometimes.
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| 08:47 | `http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/ stable main` for google chrome, etc etc.
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| 08:47 | fasaxc: feel free to add any info you think useful in that wiki page.
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| 08:50 | fasaxc: "a new line inside the quotes" <==
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| 08:51 | <fasaxc> thanks
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| 09:11 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:26 | <mtnbkr> Congrats on v5.2! Can't wait to check it out!
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| 09:30 | <Comete> nobody for my sound problem ?
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| 09:46 | <sbalneav> Comete: Haven't seen it.
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| 09:48 | <Comete> sbalneav: i have sound sometimes when opening a session but not after, it's like the sound server was crashed
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| 09:48 | i use karmic 32 bits with ltsp 5.2
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| 09:49 | <sbalneav> Sounds like pulseaudio's crashed on the thin client.
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| 09:54 | <Comete> sbalneav: do you have an idea ?
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| 09:55 | pulseaudio is very bugy
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| 09:57 | <sbalneav> Comete: yep, pulse has some problems. It seems a bit more stable on lucid.
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| 09:58 | I think it's very much tied into your sound hardware.
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| 09:58 | I tend to have thin clients that I know work "well" with LTSP, and I've had very little problem with pulse.
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| 09:58 | Other people with different sound hardware seem to have no end of difficulty.
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| 09:59 | <Comete> i use HP thinclient t5145
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| 10:00 | the problem is that i have this model everywhere
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| 10:02 | <fasaxc> alkisg, just got my first fat client booted, thanks! Now just need to set up routing because only the server has internet access
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> fasaxc: ah, it's a 2 nic setup? OK, thanks for the feedback. Do you think that wiki page is enough to get someone going?
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| 10:04 | <Comete> sbalneav: another problem is the new release of gcompris on http://ppa.launchpad.net/stgraber/ppa/ubuntu , it's too slow. Is it possible to reinstall the last one but keeping ltsp 5.2 ?
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| 10:06 | <fasaxc> It's definitely clear and easy to follow. It might be worth adding links to cover the obvious next steps like adding more apps to the chroot or setting up networking in a 2-nic setup
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| 10:08 | <alkisg> OK, I'll put those to a link section on the bottom.
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| 10:08 | <sbalneav> Comete: I'd report the slowness to stgraber.
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| 10:10 | Ha! Who posted us to slashdot?
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> stgraber :)
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| 10:11 | <sbalneav> 994 commits in 2 years?!?! MY GOD WHAT ARE YOU LAZY B*ST*RDS DOING?!
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> Comete: sure you can, open synaptic and select "force a specific version" from the menus
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| 10:11 | <sbalneav> That one made me laugh.
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 10:12 | <Comete> alkisg: ok thanks !
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| 10:14 | <fasaxc> Thanks again alkisg, you've saved me a lot of pain trying to get this working today!
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| 10:14 | <alkisg> You're welcome, do keep in touch for any feedback ;)
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| 10:23 | <Comete> thanks guys for your help
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| 10:23 | sbalneav: i've just sent him an email about gcompris
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| 10:23 | bye
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| 10:26 | <fasaxc> alkisg, FYI I followed the instructions in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT and that got the routing set up correctly
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| 10:26 | * alkisg isn't using a 2 nic setup for fat clients :) | |
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| 10:48 | * stgraber waves to sbalneav | |
| 10:51 | * vagrantc waves to the bold and daring LTSP crew | |
| 10:51 | * sbalneav jumps up and down and gibbers like an ourang-utan | |
| 10:52 | <sbalneav> stgraber: Hey, did you submit the story to /.?
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| 10:52 | Morning vagrantc
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> fasaxc: I also put a script in the wiki page to help people "correctly" enter and update their fat client chroot
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| 10:57 | <stgraber> sbalneav: yep
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| 10:57 | sbalneav: we are on linuxtoday and lxer as well
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| 10:57 | sbalneav: and I know someone proposed it for lwn.net
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| 10:58 | <sbalneav> Nothing wrong with a little shameless self promotion
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| 11:01 | <mtnbkr> sbalneav: agreed. Especially for such a worthwile project.
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| 11:03 | <stgraber> sbalneav: we also got a lot of good comments both on my blog and on /. that's always good to hear from other users than the one we have here ;)
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| 11:08 | <sbalneav> First decade of LTSP's done, we're into the second decade :)
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| 11:13 | <jammcq> good morning friends
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| 11:14 | <yanu> indeed, for me, it's 10 years that i'm working with linux, i must give a great party ;)
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| 11:15 | <sbalneav> !j
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| 11:15 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "j" :: jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 11:16 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 11:29 | <anivair> problem: my sound settings for all users are occasionally (in the middle of a login) just reverting ot whatever they were when they logged in.
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| 11:29 | so the headsets they were using keep going out, since the input and output is switching back to the internal audio, rather than the adapter
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| 11:29 | is there a way to patch this up?
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| 11:41 | <sbalneav> anivair: sounds like a pulse problem. I'd combat it by setting up a hard-coded alsa config file.
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| 11:41 | .asound.conf I believe.
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| 11:56 | <anivair> thanks, I'll look into it
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| 11:56 | second question: now that I have apps running locally, i cvan't see them
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| 11:56 | which is bad if I need to kill the process
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| 11:56 | <johnny> of course you can't see them
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| 11:56 | what do you epect?
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| 11:56 | <anivair> (ie, if I ps aux right now, I see no twinkle processes, even though everyone's ru nning it locally)
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| 11:57 | <johnny> cuz they are running on that computer..
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| 11:57 | you would have to login to the clients to kill them
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| 11:57 | <anivair> but I still need to be able to administer the accounts
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| 11:57 | <johnny> administer the accounts?
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| 11:57 | <anivair> because a moment ago, logging out of the session and back in didn't kill the process for them
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| 11:58 | <johnny> of course not
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| 11:58 | oh wait..
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| 11:58 | i think that should
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| 11:58 | since ldm runs locally
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| 11:58 | i wonder if there's a way to tell
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| 11:58 | we do have ldm logout hooks
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| 11:58 | alkisg, so.. is there a way to make it so that when ldm is reset it kills the local processes? or should it do that already?
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| 11:59 | <anivair> I thought it would, but unless it was a glitch of another sort, it did not
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| 11:59 | <johnny> somebody here will knwo
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| 11:59 | <anivair> I'm thinking about running them locally just for ease of administration, but I don't know if that would kill the function or no
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| 12:00 | I guess I can test it and see
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| 12:00 | <johnny> ease of administration is running them on the server :)
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| 12:00 | but.. obviously many apps don't work well when you do that
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| 12:00 | <anivair> well, I'm not sure how twinkle works under the hood, so I don't know if there is a real benefit to running it locally or not
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| 12:01 | <johnny> if it a voice over ip app?
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| 12:01 | <anivair> it is
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| 12:01 | sip phone
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| 12:01 | <johnny> then locally is probaby better
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| 12:01 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:01 | <anivair> fair enough
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| 12:01 | afk for a bit
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| 12:02 | <johnny> multimedia stuff is best done locally as far as i can tell
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| 12:02 | <Lns> Congrats LTSPers on the Slashdot article!! =)
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| 12:06 | * vagrantc heard mumblings of a slashdot article | |
| 12:07 | <thunsucker> Lns: whats the title?
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| 12:07 | n/m i found it
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| 12:07 | <Lns> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/02/21/225233/After-2-Years-of-Development-LTSP-52-Is-Out?art_pos=17
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| 12:07 | <thunsucker> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/02/21/225233/After-2-Years-of-Development-LTSP-52-Is-Out?art_pos=1
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| 12:07 | <vagrantc> not front page, apparently
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| 12:07 | <Lns> it was posted yesterday i think
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| 12:10 | <johnny> vagrantc, it ws already frontpaged, you missed it :)
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| 12:10 | <vagrantc> imagine that.
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| 12:14 | <Lns> jeez vagrantc, stop pushing commits and start reading slashdot already ;)
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| 12:17 | <sbalneav> heh, I love some of the comments
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| 12:17 | Running X11 apps over SSH has NO RELATION TO WHAT LTSP DOES.
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| 12:17 | errr?
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| 12:17 | <Appiah> aaah slashdot!
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| 12:25 | <fasaxc> Hi, has anyone managed to get chrome to work as a local install (I'm using a fat client setup).... I find it crashes with "Operation not permitted" (I think when it tries to create its lock file)
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| 12:31 | <alincoln> fasaxc: i and a pal of mine got the same thing. i was going to try it with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS = False when i next had a chance, so you might try that
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| 12:31 | <fasaxc> alincoln, thanks, where do I put that flag
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| 12:33 | <Lns> sbalneav, one comment says "still, there are inefficiencies: -Ltsp is over ssh. that means no udp. they also have to mantain a whole login manager. was openvpn that difficoult to use? ipsec? - X11 connection. 100mb/s connection is NOT enough for a 1280x1024 desktop. just try to see a youtube hd video." LOL
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| 12:33 | <alincoln> fasaxc: have you done any lts.conf editing before?
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| 12:35 | <Lns> In any case, it's great to see the publicity for LTSP on such a "mainstream" tech site as Slashdot
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| 12:35 | Hopefully it'll attract some more momentum for the project
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| 12:37 | <alkisg> johnny: is that localapps? I've no idea, I guess any X apps are killed when X is restarted...
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| 12:37 | fasaxc: yeah, symlink problems can be worked around with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=False in lts.conf
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| 12:37 | <fasaxc> I'll give it a try
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| 12:38 | <johnny> alkisg, he was saying that it wasn't ..
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| 12:38 | <alkisg> fasaxc: that's also true for pulseaudio and googleearth
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| 12:38 | <sbalneav> Lns: Yeah, lots and lots of "experts" on /.
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| 12:38 | <johnny> guess he'll have to try it again
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| 12:39 | <Lns> sbalneav, "I know what openvpn is! Why don't they use that?!?!!?!111"
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| 13:18 | <fasaxc> thanks alincoln/alkisg, that SSH flag has done the trick
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| 13:26 | <thunsucker> do we have to add any special ppa's to get ltsp 5.2?
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| 13:28 | <johnny> yes
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| 13:28 | what would you expect?
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| 13:28 | ltsp 5.2 won't appear in any release until lucid for ubuntu
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| 13:29 | !stgraber-ppa
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| 13:29 | <ltspbot> johnny: "stgraber-ppa" :: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
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| 13:29 | <johnny> /me guessed that
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| 13:29 | <thunsucker> johnny: ohh ok I thougth when I read it was backported that it would be the default....cool i'll add your ppa
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| 13:29 | <johnny> it ain't my ppa
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| 13:29 | oh.. of it's backported..
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| 13:29 | you need to use a seperate repo
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| 13:30 | /me doesn't know what that is for ubuntu
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| 13:30 | i guess jaunty-backports ?
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| 13:30 | then i guess you do'nt need the ppa
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| 13:30 | does it say which release it was backported for thunsucker ?
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| 13:30 | <thunsucker> i think it was karmic
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| 13:30 | sec checking
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| 13:31 | Packages for LTSP 5.2, LDM 2.1 and LTSPfs 0.6 are already in Ubuntu Lucid and a backport for Karmic is available.
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| 13:32 | a quick check and after an update and dist-upgrade, 5.1.90 is installed
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| 13:32 | I'll just add the ppa
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| 13:35 | <johnny> you're not really gaining that much from upgrading tho probably
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| 13:39 | <thunsucker> johnny: I wanted to test out the nbd-proxy, I have random clients that get squahfs errors
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| 13:48 | <anivair> anyone have any experience with kiax (iax softphone)? Twinkle is prooving to be really unreliable here and I'm looking at altenatives.
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| 13:50 | <thunsucker> anivair: try this link http://andrew-stephanie.ca/kiax-ltsp
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| 13:50 | <anivair> saw that. it's the reason I'm looking into the program
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| 13:51 | <thunsucker> anivair: is your phone switch asterisk/
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| 13:56 | <anivair> it can be
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| 13:56 | it's sip right now, but we own it and converting it would not be hard (according to the voip provider)
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| 13:57 | <thunsucker> anivair: just curious our company is getting reayd to deploy a streamlined asterisk box
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| 13:58 | <anivair> well, I'll be sure to note how it goes (if you're on the ltsp mailing list, I'll likely post there)
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| 13:58 | <thunsucker> cool ty
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| 14:34 | <thunsucker> alkisg: did you ever fix your nbd-proxy issues with vbox?
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> thunsucker: yes, stgraber fixed nbd-proxy and now it works fine for me in vbox
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| 14:36 | thunsucker: ltsp 5.2 does have the updated nbd-proxy
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| 14:36 | <thunsucker> alkisg: cool ty
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| 14:38 | <thunsucker> alkisg: i have next-server as 192.168.56.101 but it still showed looking for 192.168.56.101
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| 14:38 | __nubae__ has quit IRC | |
| 14:38 | <thunsucker> *192.168.56.102
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| 14:42 | purpleidea has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:43 | <purpleidea> hey, i heard about the recent release of 5.2 and i just want to thank all for free gpl software; hope this wasn't too corny.
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| 14:44 | <jammcq> purpleidea: I think it was just the right amount of corny :)
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| 14:44 | <purpleidea> haha, awesome... it's not my type of usual message, but i'm glad this project is active. :)
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| 14:45 | scottmaccal has quit IRC | |
| 14:45 | <jammcq> thanks. there's some awesome people here keeping it going
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| 14:48 | <purpleidea> maybe i
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| 14:48 | ll lurk for a little while
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| 14:51 | hey if someone wanted to work on some patches, is there a more detailed version of: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head:/TODO
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| 14:51 | <thunsucker> alkisg: what did you select for your network adapters when you run vbox?
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> thunsucker: bridged networking
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| 15:23 | <frederickjh> ltspbot ltsp-cluster
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| 15:23 | <ltspbot> frederickjh: Error: "ltsp-cluster" is not a valid command.
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| 15:23 | <frederickjh> ltspbot what is ltsp-cluster
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| 15:23 | <ltspbot> frederickjh: Error: "what" is not a valid command.
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| 15:24 | <frederickjh> ltspbot help
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| 15:24 | <ltspbot> frederickjh: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> !ltsp-cluster
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| 15:24 | <ltspbot> alkisg: Error: "ltsp-cluster" is not a valid command.
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> ..or something like that :)
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| 15:25 | <frederickjh> ltspbot ltsp-cluster is cool!
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| 15:25 | <ltspbot> frederickjh: Error: "ltsp-cluster" is not a valid command.
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| 15:26 | <frederickjh> ltspbot help help
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| 15:26 | <ltspbot> frederickjh: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
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| 15:27 | <frederickjh> ltspbot help ltspbot-
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| 15:27 | <ltspbot> frederickjh: Error: There is no command "ltspbot-".
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| 15:27 | <sbalneav> !ltsp-cluster
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| 15:27 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: Error: "ltsp-cluster" is not a valid command.
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| 15:27 | <sbalneav> !topics
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| 15:27 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "topics" :: To get a list of topics, type ltspbot: factoids search --values
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| 15:28 | <sbalneav> ltspbot: factoids search --values
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| 15:28 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: 'ltsp', 'icewm', 'frappr', 'wiki', 'edubuntu', 'dhcpd', 'greyscreen', 'ltsp42', 'localdev', 'checklist', 'muekow', 'bestltspdistro', 'serversize', 'wireless', 'sound', 'topics', 'integration', 'bootfloppy', 'ltsp5', 'tarball', 'debian', 'download', 'monkeys', 'ogra', 'nfs', 'nfsnotresp', 'js', 's', 'troubleshooting', 'sbnet', 'paavum', 'bbq', 'guaraldo', 'nx', 'localdev', 'localdev', (2 more messages)
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| 15:28 | <sbalneav> No-one's taught ltspbot about ltsp-cluster
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| 15:28 | !cluster
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| 15:28 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: Error: "cluster" is not a valid command.
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| 15:28 | <sbalneav> or cluster either.
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| 15:29 | frederickjh: What is it you're looking for
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> !grayscreen
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| 15:36 | <ltspbot> alkisg: Error: "grayscreen" is not a valid command.
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> !greyscreen
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| 15:36 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "greyscreen" :: No login, and only a grey screen? See http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Troubleshooting-GrayScreen
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> Nah... too old link
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| 15:38 | <sbalneav> ltspbot: forget greyscreen
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| 15:38 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
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| 15:38 | <sbalneav> I need to write a better command for the topics.
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| 15:38 | !sbnet
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| 15:38 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "sbnet" :: great!
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| 15:38 | <sbalneav> ltspbot: forget sbnet
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| 15:38 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
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| 15:38 | <sbalneav> ltspbot: factoids search --values
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| 15:38 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: 'ltsp', 'icewm', 'frappr', 'wiki', 'edubuntu', 'dhcpd', 'ltsp42', 'localdev', 'checklist', 'muekow', 'bestltspdistro', 'serversize', 'wireless', 'sound', 'topics', 'integration', 'bootfloppy', 'ltsp5', 'tarball', 'debian', 'download', 'monkeys', 'ogra', 'nfs', 'nfsnotresp', 'js', 's', 'troubleshooting', 'paavum', 'bbq', 'guaraldo', 'nx', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'ubuntu', 'localdev', (2 more messages)
| |
| 15:39 | <sbalneav> !monkeys
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| 15:39 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "monkeys" :: SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
| |
| 15:39 | <sbalneav> ltspbot: forget monkeys
| |
| 15:39 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
| |
| 15:39 | <sbalneav> !paavum
| |
| 15:39 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "paavum" :: Magnus Paavum
| |
| 15:39 | <sbalneav> ltspbot: forget paavum
| |
| 15:39 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
| |
| 15:39 | <sbalneav> ltspbot: factoids search --values
| |
| 15:39 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: 'ltsp', 'icewm', 'frappr', 'wiki', 'edubuntu', 'dhcpd', 'ltsp42', 'localdev', 'checklist', 'muekow', 'bestltspdistro', 'serversize', 'wireless', 'sound', 'topics', 'integration', 'bootfloppy', 'ltsp5', 'tarball', 'debian', 'download', 'ogra', 'nfs', 'nfsnotresp', 'js', 's', 'troubleshooting', 'bbq', 'guaraldo', 'nx', 'localdev', 'localdev', 'ubuntu', 'localdev', 'TWOTF', 'TWOTF', (2 more messages)
| |
| 15:40 | <sbalneav> !js
| |
| 15:40 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "js" :: Lumiere!!!!!!!!
| |
| 15:40 | <sbalneav> !bbq
| |
| 15:40 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "bbq" :: Churrasco
| |
| 15:40 | <sbalneav> !TWOTF
| |
| 15:40 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "TWOTF" :: (#1) Certainly not., or (#2) a.k.a. The Way Of The Future
| |
| 15:41 | <sbalneav> meh, I'll do some factoid cleaning later
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| 15:41 | <Gadi> somebody's been teaching ltspbot after school
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> !ogra
| |
| 15:43 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "ogra" :: ogra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 15:43 | <alkisg> !o
| |
| 15:43 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "o" :: o is for ogra!!!!!!!!!
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> Hey, how come he's got two, and other devs have none? :D
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| 16:13 | <john_s> I am looking for someone who is using LTSP clustering that could help me understand it a bit
| |
| 16:14 | ogra_cmpc has quit IRC | |
| 16:15 | <john_s> Basically I am hitting the limits of what my single LTSP server can do, and I am trying to decide whether to add multiple individual servers or try an clustering approach
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| 16:17 | etyack1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:17 | <frederickjh> you and me both, john_s.
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| 16:17 | The whole ltsp-cluster thing sounds great till you look for a path to go from where you are to ltsp-cluster.
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| 16:17 | <john_s> :->
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| 16:18 | <Lns> john_s: frederickjh: talk to stgraber - he's the one who made it =)
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| 16:18 | <frederickjh> I don't want to install it on a virtual machine
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| 16:18 | <john_s> Is it still pretty green
| |
| 16:18 | ?
| |
| 16:18 | <frederickjh> I want to know how to get from a p4 running karmic to a ltsp-cluster.
| |
| 16:19 | New, not sure about green.
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| 16:19 | etyack has quit IRC | |
| 16:19 | <Gadi> ltsp-cluster was an adaptation from what was once mille-xterm
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| 16:19 | code coming out of revolution linux
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| 16:19 | <frederickjh> From what I have read it seems that it is best to almost start over in a sense.
| |
| 16:19 | <john_s> Interesting. I am running a quad core with 16 Gig's of ram serving about 50 clients, and I running out of CPU
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| 16:19 | mgariepy has quit IRC | |
| 16:19 | <Gadi> a company who did large scale deployments
| |
| 16:20 | its not green - only not well documented or as easy to use as it will grow to be
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| 16:20 | <frederickjh> With the ltsp-cluster you seperate the file server boot machine from the servers that serve up applications.
| |
| 16:20 | <john_s> Thank you Gadi
| |
| 16:20 | <Gadi> ltsp-cluster has several pieces to it
| |
| 16:20 | a control center, a load balancer, etc
| |
| 16:21 | whereas regular ltsp is controlled by an lts.conf grabbed over tftp on boot,
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| 16:21 | <frederickjh> Another un-well-documented opensource project. What's new.
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| 16:21 | <john_s> frederickjh: I assumed as much. My district was looking at Stoneware which I think does similar things, but I am trying to keep us on the Free path
| |
| 16:21 | <Gadi> ltsp-cluster is controlled by a "wget" call to the ltsp-cluster control center that retrieves settings at various breakpoints in the client lifecycle
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| 16:22 | etyack1 has quit IRC | |
| 16:22 | <john_s> Gadi: I read that much of this is being handled over HTTP. Do you know of any schools that have deployed this in the U.S. or Canada?
| |
| 16:22 | <frederickjh> So, Gadi, do you know if you can use a current machine such an a Ubuntu Karmic and add a application server and make this work?
| |
| 16:23 | <Gadi> john_s: rev linux has a 5000-client deployment up in Canada
| |
| 16:23 | I am in the midst of prepping a deployment that makes use of some ltsp-cluster in the US right now
| |
| 16:23 | <john_s> I'll take a look at their website
| |
| 16:23 | Gadi where abouts are you located?
| |
| 16:23 | If you don't mind me asking
| |
| 16:24 | <Gadi> personally, I am in NY, but the school I am doing this project for is out in CA
| |
| 16:24 | frederickjh: you can use individual machines
| |
| 16:24 | frederickjh: to give you an idea...
| |
| 16:25 | <frederickjh> What does that mean?
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| 16:25 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 16:25 | <Gadi> I decided to combine control center, load balancer, and ltsp (read bootserver) into one VM
| |
| 16:25 | * vagrantc wonders if CA is candada or california | |
| 16:25 | <Gadi> and just have separate app server VMs
| |
| 16:25 | no reason those couldn't be real machines
| |
| 16:25 | sorry - I meant california
| |
| 16:26 | <frederickjh> My situation is such that I am running this system for my family 4 seats for now on a P4 3.2GHz machine.
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| 16:26 | <Lns> Gadi: where abouts out here?
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| 16:26 | <Gadi> Lns: where you would expect ;)
| |
| 16:26 | speaking of which
| |
| 16:26 | <Lns> woot! =)
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| 16:27 | <Gadi> I may be out there again next month - we should grab another beer
| |
| 16:27 | so I can buy you one this time
| |
| 16:27 | :)
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| 16:27 | <Lns> for sure, that would be cool.
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| 16:27 | just lemme know when
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| 16:27 | <frederickjh> I am maxing out the CPU with myself running on the server and one other client at times depending on the apps being run.
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| 16:27 | <Lns> I can come out to where you're at this time
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| 16:27 | frederickjh: what will you be using it for?
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| 16:27 | <frederickjh> I am thinking of adding another p4 that I have laying around as a application server but am not sure if it will help.
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| 16:28 | <Lns> LTSP isn't always the "right" solution for things, especially when < 5 boxes
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| 16:28 | <frederickjh> Why Lns?
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| 16:28 | <Gadi> frederickjh: for such a small scale, why not just direct 2 clients to one machine and 2 to the other
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| 16:28 | Mip5 has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:28 | <Lns> frederickjh: ...well think about it. Would you use a loaded machine that you tax out for gaming all the time for 3 other people to use simultaneously?
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| 16:28 | It's not like LTSP creates cpu cycles and memory for you =)
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| 16:29 | <frederickjh> Can you do that so that the ones that come on first go to one machine and the other go else where?
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| 16:29 | <john_s> Gadi: Did you just work from documentation on the ltsp-cluster website? Or can you point me at another source?
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| 16:29 | <Lns> what are the specs of the p4?
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| 16:30 | <frederickjh> 3.2GHz 1G memory
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| 16:31 | Or would more memory be a better way to go?
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| 16:31 | <Gadi> john_s: I know the way to stgraber's heart ;)
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| 16:31 | usually begging or bribery
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| 16:31 | :)
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| 16:32 | <Lns> frederickjh: more ram wouldn't hurt, maybe another gb for 4 users
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| 16:32 | <Gadi> john_s: seriously, did you see the docs that do exist
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| 16:32 | <john_s> Ahhh. Well I'll have to figure that out too :->
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| 16:32 | <Gadi> there are some
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| 16:32 | <Mip5> Hey Gang - I'm running LTSP 9.04. I think that iTalc uses port 5900, which is the same one used by VNC (vino). Is there a way to install iTalc on an ltsp server and still get to that server using VNC?
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| 16:32 | <Gadi> mostly a howto with openvz
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| 16:32 | <john_s> Gadi: I see a setup for OpenVZ which I am not familiar with
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| 16:32 | <Gadi> I am using xenserver
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| 16:32 | not openvz
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| 16:32 | <Lns> Mip5: woah! I thought we were only at 5.2!!! Where can you download LTSP 9.04? ;)
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| 16:32 | <Gadi> bec, like u, I dont know openvz
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| 16:33 | <Mip5> lns - hah! lol
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| 16:33 | <john_s> Gadi: Is virtualization the preffered approach
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| 16:33 | ?
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| 16:33 | ogra_cmpc has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:33 | <Gadi> john_s: it makes things easier - especially if you start worrying over failover and high availability
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| 16:34 | I have right now 2 xenservers and 6 VMs
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| 16:34 | 3 each
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| 16:34 | that are for load balance and high availability
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| 16:34 | stgraber's team usually do more than that and split up everything
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| 16:34 | <john_s> So is the clustering sits on top of several vms which may sit on several servers?
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| 16:35 | <Gadi> well, lets not confuse things too much and assume that ltsp-cluster does more than we think
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| 16:35 | (thats what happens when people say cluster - they think it does everything and more)
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| 16:36 | the control center manages client configuration
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| 16:36 | <john_s> Gadi: Do bandwidth requirements change in setups like yours e.g. server to server, server to client
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| 16:37 | <Gadi> change? no
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| 16:37 | the only server-to-server bw I worry about is that the two xenservers connect to a NAS for the VMs
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| 16:37 | but thats on the backend
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| 16:38 | <john_s> Gadi: So the VM's are read into memory from a NAS?
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| 16:38 | <Gadi> client to server is still the same
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| 16:38 | no - they live on the NAS
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| 16:38 | but run on the xenserver
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| 16:38 | <john_s> So you write changes back to the NAS?
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| 16:38 | <Gadi> right
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| 16:39 | that way you can "live migrate" VMs across xenservers while running
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| 16:39 | <john_s> Do you do ethernet or something fancier?
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| 16:39 | <Gadi> gigabit ethernet
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| 16:40 | <john_s> how many clients are you supportting right now?
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| 16:41 | <Gadi> this roll out will be for 350 (but it is not yet in production - looking to start rolling out next month or so)
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| 16:41 | Linux and Windows app servers
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| 16:41 | Active Directory
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| 16:41 | backend
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| 16:41 | <john_s> so 350 on two physical server + app servers?
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| 16:42 | Gadi: That's essentially our setup as well
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| 16:42 | <Gadi> yeah, these are two physical servers
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| 16:42 | right now, quad xeons with 16GB RAM each
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| 16:42 | but, we may find we're spec'd too low
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| 16:42 | we'll see ;)
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| 16:42 | <john_s> Interesting.
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| 16:42 | <Gadi> this is one of those "shoestring budget" deals
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| 16:42 | :)
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| 16:42 | <john_s> I am doing 4 core AMD Opteron's and I am fine on memory but I am getting spanked on CPU
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| 16:43 | <Gadi> john_s: yeah, a lot depends on what you run where
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| 16:43 | <john_s> Is access to the windows applicaitons handled seemlessy by the clustering software or does it require kerberos etc
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| 16:44 | <vagrantc> make sure all users are only able to run the "blank" screensaver
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| 16:44 | <Gadi> windows apps are terminal services
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| 16:44 | <vagrantc> it's absurd how much processing power a few of those take.
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| 16:44 | <Gadi> er, "Remote Desktop Services" as they call it these days
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| 16:44 | <vagrantc> i know people with computers that the fans only spin up when the screensaver kicks in
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| 16:45 | <john_s> vvagrantc: thanks. I met you in Chicago about 6 years ago, and you filled us in on Freegeek. It was fun talking to you.
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| 16:45 | <Gadi> thats why I only run screensavers in the summer
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| 16:45 | :)
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| 16:45 | <vagrantc> john_s: well hi!
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| 16:45 | <john_s> :->
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| 16:45 | <Lns> Gadi: just don't install flash ;)
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| 16:46 | <john_s> Lns: Wouldn't it be nice if you could follow that dictum!
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| 16:46 | or at least if I could follow that dictum
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> all this talk of "flash" and "dictum" - we're gonna get kicked off freenode
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| 16:46 | :P
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| 16:46 | * Lns prays to the html5 gods "video" and "canvas" | |
| 16:47 | <Lns> don't start up again Gadi! =p
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| 16:47 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 16:47 | <vagrantc> john_s: the crew with KACS? or freegeek chicago?
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| 16:47 | <Lns> it's monday, it's a work day. haha
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| 16:47 | <john_s> :-> Ok, looks like I need to learn about some soft of linux VM and then mess with Clustirng
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| 16:47 | <Gadi> sorry - we dont all use slashdot as an outlet
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| 16:47 | :)
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| 16:47 | <Lns> =p~
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| 16:47 | <john_s> Vagrant: KACS. Good memory!
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| 16:48 | Although I probably knew all the FGC folks at that time.
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| 16:48 | Don't know what they are up to know
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc> there's been 1-2 generations of people since
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| 16:48 | <Gadi> john_s: just an aside, what is new about ltsp-cluster is its integration (client side) into ltsp and therefore its farther reaching reach
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| 16:49 | john_s: I expect as more people start using it, you will see more hands working on it than just the rev linux guys
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| 16:49 | <john_s> Gadi: What do you mean?
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| 16:49 | <Gadi> well, ltsp-cluster used to be just "an internal rev linux project"
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| 16:49 | that rode on top of ltsp
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| 16:50 | <john_s> vagrantc: do do anything with the FG folks in Portland these days?
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| 16:50 | <stgraber> technically it was always open source ;)
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| 16:50 | <vagrantc> john_s: yup. it's rocking!
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| 16:50 | <stgraber> it was then called MilleXterm and available on some weird (but public) SVN branch
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| 16:50 | <Gadi> over the past few years, we worked to get the client piece integrated into ltsp proper
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| 16:50 | (I should really say, stgraber worked)
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| 16:50 | :)
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| 16:50 | <stgraber> now we cleaned everything, changed the name, rewrote a few part and published it as ltsp-cluster with a good integration in upstream LTSP
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| 16:51 | <Gadi> ok - but fair to say, it was a project used almost exclusively by rev linux
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| 16:51 | <stgraber> yep, until a few months ago we were the only ones to have it deployed
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| 16:51 | <Gadi> so, now that it is more integrated upstream, I think there will be more hands on deck
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| 16:52 | <stgraber> now we are starting to get calls from people who installed it themselves and either want help making it more reliable (HA, huge infrastructure, ...) or want some custom development on top of it
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| 16:52 | <johnny> anybody here any good with openoffice calc macros?
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| 16:52 | or something..
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| 16:52 | <john_s> stgraber: If I am looking to set this up and try it out, should I be working from the howto OpenVZ
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| 16:52 | <stgraber> yup, also the rewrite we are working on at the moment should help getting more contributors as the code is a lot cleaner, properly commented and using well-known technologies
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| 16:53 | john_s: yep, the OpenVZ howto is probably the best to start with ltsp-cluster. If you don't like VZ, you can either install everything on the same box or consider each VZ container as one physical server or VM.
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| 16:53 | <john_s> vagrantc: I am planning on coming to Portland sometime this spring. I'll stop by FG and look you up
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| 16:54 | <stgraber> john_s: we tend to use OpenVZ for everything as it's a lot lighter than any regular virtualization technology but provides similar advantages (live migration, easy management, cloning of VZ, ...)
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| 16:54 | <john_s> Is the VM a matter of preference or does OpenVZ offer more clustery goodness?
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| 16:54 | whoops thanks
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| 16:54 | that answers that question
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| 16:57 | <Lns> stgraber: define huge infrastructure =)
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| 16:59 | johnny has left #ltsp | |
| 17:04 | <stgraber> Lns: > 10 application servers and > 1000 thin clients usually
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| 17:04 | <Lns> stgraber: on one LAN?
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| 17:04 | <stgraber> Lns: currrently the biggest we have is over 50 application servers, over 5000 thin clients and used by 40000 users
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| 17:04 | Lns: full HA in two different data centers
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| 17:05 | Lns: that's for a whole school district
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| 17:05 | <Lns> stgraber: what's the backbone?
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| 17:05 | it would be SO cool for you to do a case study on that
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| 17:05 | <mgariepy> Lns, we have about 5000 uniq user per day ;)
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| 17:05 | mgariepy has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:05 | <mgariepy> unique**
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| 17:06 | <stgraber> network is usually 1/10Gb to the schools, then either 100Mb/s or 1Gb/s per floor and 100Mb/s to the classrooms
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| 17:06 | <Lns> beautiful
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| 17:06 | <stgraber> the link between the two datacenters is 10Gb/s I believe (at least we never had less than 1Gb/s when doing bandwidth tests ;))
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| 17:07 | mgariepy: oh, you have a ubuntu/member/ cloak now ? :)
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| 17:07 | <Lns> you need to take some pics of this setup and post them up for people =)
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| 17:07 | <mgariepy> yeah, just got it
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| 17:07 | <stgraber> Lns: yeah, I'm often nagging some people at the office so we put some case studies online ... we have some great deployments that could easily show how Linux can be used on the desktop
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| 17:08 | <Lns> stgraber: ...yeah. =) that would seriously drive so many schools to see what can be done. It'd be a snowball effect
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| 17:10 | at LEAST take me on a tour. ;)
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| 17:10 | <stgraber> Lns: we mentioned a few deployments on ltsp-cluster.org but without any names or details ... though I know we give that kind of information, including contact information for a few of our existing customers to these who are really interested in working with us (as in Revolution Linux)
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> john_s: please do! i'll be around.
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| 17:10 | <stgraber> but I agree that we should make some of that public so the general public can read more about what we did and how LTSP is actually used :)
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| 17:11 | <Lns> stgraber: if you ever need help with deployments out in california let me know, i'd love for you to sub me out if you need extra hands
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| 17:11 | stgraber: seriously. If my little one-man-shop can get on the cover of linux.com, ...jeez. you'd be on the front page of NY Times ;)
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| 17:11 | <Mip5> I'm having a hard time getting both iTalc and VNC running on my LTSP server. I think they're using the same port - but I'm not sure of the best way to fix that. Ideas anyone? I'm running Jaunty on the server (LTSP 5)
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| 17:13 | <john_s> Mip5: could you bind your VNC server to a different port?
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| 17:13 | <Mip5> john_s Sure - I'd love to, I just don't know how to do it.
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| 17:13 | <john_s> man vnc?
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| 17:14 | Mip5: which VNC flavor is it?
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| 17:15 | <Mip5> right. vino
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| 17:15 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 17:16 | <Mip5> john_s - I'm just using the remote desktop app that comes with ubuntu
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| 17:21 | <Mip5> john_s I found something related to this using gconf http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1165758
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| 17:26 | <carbm1> stgraber: I work for a small school district and I'm trying out LTSP right now. How do you handle a lot of your Windows ONLY software?
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| 17:28 | <stgraber> carbm1: well, fortunately we don't have that many of these, then we can either run them in WINE (for these that support it) and for the others, we worked on the seamless patch for rdesktop that lets you integrate Windows applications from a TS environment in your Linux desktop
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| 17:29 | carbm1: you can check the video at the bottom of https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/tour for an example
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| 17:29 | <john_s> Mip5: I see here http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=ITALC_in_a_ThinClient_environment#Installation_and_Operation_of_iTALC_in_the_Ubuntu_LTSP_environment that iTalc has a variable
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| 17:29 | that binds the port "my $isdport = 5800"
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| 17:29 | perhaps you could change that?
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| 17:29 | <Mip5> john_s: I saw that too, but I don't think that's the port that's the problem.
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| 17:29 | <john_s> I can't find much documentation about vino
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| 17:30 | <Mip5> vino-server runs on 5900, so I think it's the ima (italc master) that I have to change.
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| 17:30 | <Lns> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2357618,00.asp - anyone use these w/ltsp yet? =) looks so cool!
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| 17:30 | <john_s> Mip5: sorry I thought you said there were two process listining on that port
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| 17:31 | <Mip5> I think both are using 5900 (iTalc master and vino-server) - that port the client uses appears to be 5800 - but I don't think that's the one that needs to be changed
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| 17:31 | <john_s> Mip5: so if you stop italc and do netstat -an | grep 5900 do you see vino listingin on it, and vice versa (e.g. stopping vino and grepping for 5900?)
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| 17:33 | <Mip5> john_s: I'm not sure how to interpret the output
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| 17:33 | but I know my vnc client is trying to connect to my server at 5900
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| 17:33 | and finds it
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| 17:37 | <Mip5> john_s: thanks for your help. I'm going to head home and hit it again in the morning
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| 17:37 | g'night all
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| 17:37 | Mip5 has left #ltsp | |
| 17:41 | <john_s> Mip5: perhaps you'll see this if you search online and see this exchange. There's a description here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1165758
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| 17:43 | stgraber: how do you manage printing? E.g. Do you have a way of directing individual thin clients to printers closet to them? I have to use static IP's to make this work, but of course this doesn't scale?
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| 17:45 | <stgraber> john_s: yes, in the ltsp-cluster control center, you can create groups (usually representing buildings and classrooms) and for each assign a set of printer to show as well as a default printer
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| 17:46 | john_s: if you are using a recent Ubuntu or Debian, we have patched CUPS in these two so it lets you filter what's shown to the user.
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| 17:46 | <john_s> stgraber: cool. I assume groups are defined on the cluster and not pulled from AD?
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| 17:48 | stgraber: Is load balanced NX used to offer "desktops from home"
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| 17:49 | I wonder if this isn't a candidate for a live ISO, in the way that LTSP used to be offered via knoppix (first time I used LTSP was on a Knoppix live disk distro)
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| 17:50 | stgraber: in order to get ones feet wet
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| 17:52 | Also would you suggest following the howto with Karmic or using Jaunty (which I think is on the howto?)
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| 17:59 | <stgraber> john_s: right, groups are more like a tree node (it's showing your thin clients inside a tree structure)
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| 17:59 | john_s: load-balanced NX is indeed for desktop from home using the same backend as for regular LTSP thin clients during the day
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| 18:00 | john_s: Edubuntu 10.04 should have Live LTSP right from the DVD
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| 18:00 | sorry for the late replies, I was answering a ton of mails ;)
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| 18:00 | <john_s> No prob. Does Live LTSP incorperate clustering?
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| 18:02 | <stgraber> nope it won't though it's only a few apt-get away from getting a ltsp-cluster setup
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| 18:02 | I'd try to avoid installing apache, postgresql and other stuff like that on the livecd :)
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| 18:02 | * vagrantc adds ltsp-cluster to vagrantc's TODO list for the 365th time | |
| 18:02 | <stgraber> vagrantc: hehe :)
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| 18:02 | <Lns> ditto!
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| 18:03 | <stgraber> vagrantc: a customer I'm currently working on at the moment used to run it on Lenny :) We reinstalled it on Hardy and Karmic as I like things being standard (as in Revolution Linux's standards) but it seems like it worked just fine.
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| 18:04 | vagrantc: for the backend stuff you just need php5, apache, postgresql > 8.1 and python >= 2.4 :) not exactly hard to find and our packages shouldn't contain anything ubuntu-specific
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| 18:04 | <vagrantc> stgraber: yeah, it's just a matter of trying it
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| 18:05 | <john_s> Ok, Thanks guys. I'll see if I am smart enough to follow the how to.
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| 18:06 | bye all
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| 18:10 | <vagrantc> wow. newest qemu made *huge* improvements in speed.
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| 18:11 | makes testing ltsp much easier.
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| 18:13 | <john_s> stgraber: sorry 1 more thing. A single 4 core 16 gig server handles approx how many thin clients?
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| 18:15 | stgraber: and are ALL applications pushed off to application servers e.g. you might have an OpenOffice server and a server that just hands out the desktop to the user
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| 18:15 | <Lns> john_s: it really depends on what you're using the server (clients) for.
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| 18:15 | <john_s> Lns: Well the way I use it now, is that all clients get a desktop and all apps server from a single beefy server.
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| 18:16 | <stgraber> john_s: our demo setup is a Q6600 with 6GB of RAM and we run 40-60 thin clients out of that but that's with firefox running locally
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| 18:16 | <john_s> but that isn't working as well as it might
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| 18:16 | <stgraber> john_s: if firefox runs on the server, then it's probably half of that
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| 18:16 | <Lns> stgraber: true thart
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| 18:16 | that*
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| 18:16 | firefox is a paaaaaiiin server side...localapps was made FOR firefox, no? ;)
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| 18:16 | <john_s> stgraber: Ok. So you might only break of *some* heavily used apps to a different server
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| 18:16 | ?
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| 18:17 | <stgraber> john_s: usually we install everything on all servers as it's the easiest and haven't seen much interest in having "specialized" servers yet. Though with X11 it's perfectly possible to do that
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| 18:17 | <john_s> stgraber: ok
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| 18:17 | <stgraber> john_s: we never had to do it, currently video intensive applications are moved to localapp when possible
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| 18:17 | john_s: that solved most of our issues at the moment
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| 18:17 | <john_s> I feel the firefox pain. However it's been argued that this is really FLASH pain
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| 18:18 | <stgraber> right, it's usually flash that's causing the issue but you can't only move flash to localapps, you have to move firefox as well
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| 18:18 | <Lns> john_s: it's been both in my experience, but flash is definitely worse imho
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| 18:18 | <stgraber> (though it's not technically true, I know some managed to run only flash locally but it's really a huge hack ;))
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| 18:18 | <john_s> stgraber: I guess the issue I might have with local apps is that I'll have to replace a number of older thin clients that probably won't have enough memory to run them well
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| 18:18 | <stgraber> john_s: usually if you want to run firefox locally, you'll need at least 512MB of RAM
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| 18:19 | <Lns> stgraber: isn't localapps selective in clients it serves to? I.E. you can have both to choose from?
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| 18:19 | <stgraber> john_s: though with ltsp-cluster you have the concept of "hardware groups" so you can match all thin clients with more than 512MB of ram and turn on local firefox only for these
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| 18:19 | <Lns> ;)
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| 18:19 | <john_s> stgraber: thanks. Yeah I have a large percentage of very old clients that probably won't make it under karmic
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| 18:19 | <stgraber> Lns: I guess you meant that ? ^ ;)
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| 18:19 | <Lns> yup!
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| 18:20 | isn't localapps itself selective by nature though, meaning you can tell it who to serve localapps to, and which ones?
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| 18:20 | <john_s> stgrabber: I see that the revlinux site has a thin client on the back of an lcd, do you have a recommend TC for folks looking to upgrade?
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| 18:21 | <stgraber> who as in "the thin client" yep, and which one, absolutely you have LTSP_LOCALAPPS_SOMETHING that's a comma separated list of localapps
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| 18:22 | <Lns> yeah i remember looking over that
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| 18:22 | oh i'm so excited to load my new server with lucid =)
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| 18:22 | <stgraber> john_s: anything that's Atom based will work great (as long as chipsets are Intel as well). Currently we have quite a few Asus EEEbox, EEEtop (all-in-one touchscreen) is great too. Other than that Symbio, HP and a few others have great Atom-based thin clients for very similar prices.
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| 18:23 | <john_s> stgraber:Thanks for the tip. I haven't really messed with local apps too much, just enough to notice that older clients don't like it. One kink that I am a bit worried about with local apps is that our storage is mounted via nfs so I am not sure how local apps will access network based storage with proper credentials
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| 18:23 | <stgraber> john_s: usually you can find a decent thin client for $200-250 (even some cheaper than that). Just avoid Geode and VIA as these used to be good but now are really not worth the few bucks you'll save ;)
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| 18:24 | john_s: the home directory is automatically mounted over sshfs from the application server for localapps. No need to setup NFS or anything like that on the thin client.
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| 18:24 | <john_s> stgraber: I recently got a windpc TC for about 140 with 2 G ram and and atom processor. It works very well
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| 18:24 | <stgraber> john_s: it's automatic and it's secure (as secure as SSH at least ;))
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| 18:25 | john_s: yep, that's probably one of the usual Atom 230 + Intel 945GM + Realtek network. That's the standard Atom platform and that works great.
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| 18:26 | <john_s> stgraber: the local mount of the remote filesystem is per user and is part of Karmic/Lucid etc, am I right? That's cool. I need to find out more about this.
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| 18:26 | <stgraber> at the office I currently have a touchscreen EEEtop 19" (or something like that) + a Symbio in a dual-head setup (VGA + DVI)
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| 18:27 | john_s: yep, when you login in ldm, your home directory gets automatically mounted at the same place as it's on the application server. That way localapps won't notice any change and will be able to use your config just fine.
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| 18:29 | <john_s> stgraber: wow. I need to read up on sshfs I guess
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| 18:31 | <john_s> stgraber: thanks again! Btw, I left a message at revlinux. Perhaps we'll talk at some point
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| 18:31 | <stgraber> john_s: would be great :)
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| 18:36 | * Lns waves | |
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| 19:22 | <adrian_c> Hi everyone, I was wondering if I could get some questions answered about ltsp
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> !question
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| 19:23 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "question" :: if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
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| 22:10 | <Ralth> So, I'm setting up ltsp, and I am able to boot to the log in screen, and log in with my username and password, but then I get a command line instead of Gnome. Any ideas? Do I need to install ubuntu-desktop in the thin client root?
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> should be installed on the server
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| 22:13 | <Ralth> so I install ubuntu-desktop on the server as if I were going to use gnome directly on the server?
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| 22:15 | <sbalneav> Ralth: Yes.
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| 22:16 | <Ralth> Thanks!
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| 22:20 | <vagrantc> all applications (typically) run on the server
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