IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 August 2019 (all times are UTC)
| 00:30 | <mmarconm> alkisg: what is the disavantages in use ltsp for company, like production, databases, offices
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| 00:30 | i mean if the server fails, all the computers freeze ?
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| 00:30 | recommended to have a fallback server ?
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| 03:26 | <alkisg> mmarconm, it's like any other server; like file servers, http servers etc; once they go do, you need to replace them from backups etc for the service to be available again
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| 03:26 | The good thing about Linux is that for hardware failures, moving the disk elsewhere can make the service instantly available again...
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| 03:26 | E.g. if the server motherboard fails, you move the disk to pc01, and "call it" an ltsp server and everything is up again
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| 13:01 | <MWALTERS> mmarconm: We are a small social services non-profit... we have 4 offices, each with their own LTSP server
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| 13:02 | We deal with a lot of what the US calls "protected health information", which is information about heathcare combined with personally identifiable information
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| 13:02 | <MWALTERS> PHI storage and transmission is regulated in the states. LTSP enables us to have diskless workstations... which is a huge benefit to us.
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| 13:02 | <mmarconm> Good
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| 13:03 | MWALTERS: how many workstantion do u have, and severs ?
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| 13:03 | <MWALTERS> before you even get into the financials of workstations and things like that... a brand new workstation for us is like $250... probably under $400 w/ monitor, mouse, and keyboard
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| 13:03 | We have 4 servers, 1 per LAN. Probably around 75 to 85 workstations in total
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| 13:04 | (4 ltsp servers)
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| 13:04 | <mmarconm> chrootless or chroot ?
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| 13:04 | if on server fails, another server take place ?
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| 13:04 | <MWALTERS> I use a chroot, primarily because that's what I was familiar with when we upgraded from 14.04 to 18.04
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| 13:04 | <mmarconm> ahhh, i use chroot too
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| 13:05 | has ldap integrated ?
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| 13:05 | <MWALTERS> the LTSP servers are VMs. If the hardware fails, I simply replace it, install libvirtd, and fire up a backup snapshot
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| 13:05 | I'm using FreeIPA for ldap right now, yes
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| 13:05 | <mmarconm> hunmnm GOod
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| 13:05 | i am using samba 4 + ldap
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| 13:06 | the program that you use, its web bases ?
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| 13:06 | <MWALTERS> We use gSuite for email/office applications, and we have a home grown web-based case management system... that's about 90% of what we do
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| 13:07 | We still have a win2012r2 server and 4 windows workstations for quickbooks/financials, though
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| 13:07 | <mmarconm> where are u from ?
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| 13:07 | <MWALTERS> managing even 4 windows computers is such a CHORE compared to LTSP
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| 13:07 | <mmarconm> EUA, greek ?
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| 13:07 | <MWALTERS> Eastern USA
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| 13:07 | <mmarconm> Ahhh good
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| 13:07 | i feel sad, ltsp and a big project, but not very known
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| 13:08 | MWALTERS: its possible to install ltsp on wireless network ?
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| 13:08 | <MWALTERS> it's really amazing what alk, hyper, et al. have been able to do
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| 13:08 | <mmarconm> Yes
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| 13:08 | if a client fails, OK, just replace, do not need to format again, and reinstall all over
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| 13:08 | <MWALTERS> pxe isn't "supported" over wlan... but... I do have 2 workstations in a remote building about 25 meters away from one of our offices that operates over a wireless link
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| 13:09 | LTSP server -> office lan <- wireless link -> remote office LAN -> workstations
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| 13:09 | <mmarconm> MWALTERS: how oftem you upgrade the images ?
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| 13:09 | * mmarconm feels bad about his english | |
| 13:09 | <MWALTERS> due to the nature of what we do and the sensitivity of the information we handle, every 2 weeks
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| 13:10 | You speak English better than a lot of native speakers I know ;)
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| 13:10 | <mmarconm> i installed ltsp on college, 1 server and 40 workstations
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| 13:10 | after that a installed samba + ldap
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| 13:11 | <MWALTERS> nice... I our largest installation is our primary office... 3 buildings connected by 1gb fiber... probably 30 workstations
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| 13:12 | All the buildings are old 1900s houses, though... again, due to what we do, we like to keep a friendly, inviting appearance :)
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| 13:12 | ...which makes it a huge pain to run cable ;)
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| 13:12 | <mmarconm> i am from brazil, and fiber here its a very expensive thing
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| 13:13 | * mmarconm everything its Expensive in brazil =( | |
| 13:13 | <MWALTERS> We have fiber internet through a local provider... but our LAN runs are fairly short... but yeah... it wasn't cheap
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| 13:13 | I have a rally codriver friend from Brazil, but he lives up here now
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| 13:13 | I also used to work for a razor manufacturer with offices in Sao Paulo ... and some other city I can't remember
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| 13:13 | <mmarconm> ahhh i rope go to EUA too, i am a programmer
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| 13:14 | how long do u manage this company ?
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| 13:14 | <MWALTERS> I remember having such a hard time troubleshooting windows when the language was set to Portuguese ;)
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| 13:14 | <mmarconm> ahahaaa
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| 13:14 | yes, portuguese is not a easy language to learn
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| 13:14 | * mmarconm learning portuguese till now | |
| 13:14 | <MWALTERS> It looks very similar to Spanish (at least to an English native)... but it really isn't! ;)
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| 13:15 | I've been working here and with LTSP about a year
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| 13:15 | <mmarconm> Yes, we can understand spanish quit a bit, but yet its very diferent
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| 13:16 | pt-br brazil and pt-pt portugal, its very very diferent languages LOL
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| 13:16 | <MWALTERS> I do miss that job, though... we had so many offices around the world for a small company... Worked with people from Brazil, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Czech Republic, Israel, UK
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| 13:16 | ...Czech and Hebrew... those were hard too!
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| 13:17 | I had no idea what I was doing when looking at a Hebrew desktop ;)
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| 13:17 | <mmarconm> MWALTERS: mandarin its very hard
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| 13:17 | <MWALTERS> ...just hope things are in the same place!
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| 13:17 | <mmarconm> ahaha
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| 13:17 | before you run ltsp-buil-image, you make some backupt from the old one ?
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| 13:17 | <MWALTERS> English can be similar... us-en, gb-en... Indian English is super interesting
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| 13:17 | * mmarconm something made confusion about, make and made | |
| 13:18 | <MWALTERS> if you're updating the image, you want to use ltsp-update-image
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| 13:18 | which will back up the current image automatically
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| 13:18 | <mmarconm> ahhh
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| 13:18 | <MWALTERS> the build command completely recreates the chroot I think
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| 13:18 | <mmarconm> did u test the new ltsp19 ?
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| 13:19 | <MWALTERS> Not yet... when I started here everything was waaaay out of date already... we were still running whatever shipped with ubuntu 14.04
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| 13:19 | <mmarconm> :o 14.04 ??? using unity ?
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| 13:19 | <MWALTERS> I just updated to ltsp5/18.04 in December... I'm planning to start digging into 19 after the new year
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| 13:19 | <mmarconm> i love ltsp + lxde, like lubunut
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| 13:20 | <MWALTERS> No, the desktops were... metacity? the gnome2 fork
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| 13:20 | We also used thinclients then
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| 13:20 | <mmarconm> gnome 2 fork ?? mate ?
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| 13:20 | <MWALTERS> We're using mate now
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| 13:20 | <mmarconm> ahh, i am using lubuntu
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| 13:20 | <MWALTERS> it wasn't mate... can't remember what it was called ;)
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| 13:20 | maybe it was gnome flashback
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| 13:21 | <mmarconm> ahhh yes yes, gnome flashback
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| 13:21 | <MWALTERS> But that's what was here when I started
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| 13:21 | <mmarconm> in brazil almost no one know about ltsp
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| 13:21 | just the old guys ehehehe
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| 13:22 | <MWALTERS> It's not common in the states either... most shops here are just Microsoft
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| 13:22 | <mmarconm> ahhhh
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| 13:22 | i dont have complains about M$ or Windows 10, but i some cases i indicate Windows or linux
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| 13:22 | but here in brazil, most companies uses Win
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| 13:23 | i tried to manage pxe with windows, but used a lot of memory
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| 13:23 | <MWALTERS> Microsoft's licensing programs are just too much to deal with for me
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| 13:23 | It all seems intentionally confusing, and designed to encourage you to make mistakes
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| 13:24 | <mmarconm> MWALTERS: if for you american people its expensive, imagine for us, brazil that cost 4 times more
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| 13:24 | amost a month salary one license Windows 10
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| 13:24 | almost*
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| 13:24 | <MWALTERS> I'm sure! I think Microsoft is becoming less and less required, though. With all the online productivity suites... most people don't need MS office anymore
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| 13:25 | We only keep it around for quickbooks, because we can't find a financial package that meets our needs yet
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| 13:25 | <mmarconm> libreoffice its quite good
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| 13:25 | but i have a lot of functions alredy build to excel
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| 13:25 | so .... its hard to change to libreoffce
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| 13:26 | <MWALTERS> Yeah, file conversions don't always go well either, Office to Libre, I mean
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| 13:26 | Google sheets has matured a lot, though... most of the time I can just drop a MS Office file up there and it "just works"
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| 13:26 | <mmarconm> Ahhh yes
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| 13:26 | really ??? i do not used google sheet often, i have to test to see
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| 13:26 | <MWALTERS> but if you don't have reliable internet all the time... that can be a problem!
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| 13:27 | <mmarconm> how much cost a fiber in EUA ?
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| 13:27 | and the speed that you get
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| 13:27 | i heard that 1gb/s costs 30 bucks per month
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| 13:28 | <MWALTERS> Where's that?!
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| 13:28 | <mmarconm> ahhh i dont remember
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| 13:28 | was a very long time ago
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| 13:29 | <MWALTERS> We have 100mb/100mb in this office... It's somewhere between usd$100-200/mo... 2 of our offices further away have 1gb/1gb fiber, we get that really cheap... 4th office just has small cable circuit, since only a few people work there
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| 13:29 | in the US is very region dependent
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| 13:29 | We get discounts usually because we're not for profit
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| 13:29 | <mmarconm> Ahhh good
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| 13:29 | <MWALTERS> I'm sure expensive is all relative too...
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| 13:30 | I have cable at home, 250mb/10mb which is around $90/mo
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| 13:30 | <mmarconm> here i thing costs 30 bucks, ( converted to dollar ) per month for 10mb/s
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| 13:30 | <MWALTERS> but I could go 25km west... and not be able to get anything except wireless or satelite internet
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| 13:31 | <mmarconm> how many I.T manage the company
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| 13:31 | <MWALTERS> broadband in the USA is... complicated :)
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| 13:31 | <mmarconm> one per server ?
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| 13:31 | <MWALTERS> Just me
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| 13:32 | <mmarconm> everybody using telegram, discord, facebook, whatsapp but us are the resistence using IRC LOL
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| 13:34 | <MWALTERS> IRC forever!
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| 13:34 | "It's not broken, stop trying to fix it" ;)
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| 13:36 | I think slack is funny... first it looked like an IRC replacement... channels and chat... they added threads not too long ago... they basically reinvented a bulletin board system ;)
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| 13:36 | <mmarconm> LOL
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| 13:36 | i used to use slack, but i have to many apps installed alredy
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| 13:36 | i do not use slack very often
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| 13:39 | MWALTERS: do u recommend use ssd ?
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| 13:39 | for ltsp server ?
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| 13:49 | <MWALTERS> I have root and chroot on an SSD, and /home/ on a slow disk
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| 13:49 | mostly just so the VM starts up super fast :)
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| 13:50 | <mmarconm> ahhhh O
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| 13:51 | ssd m2 ?
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| 13:56 | <MWALTERS> naw, just sata SSDs
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| 13:57 | <mmarconm> ahhh Ok
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| 13:58 | do make some bkp of /home folder to another pc ?
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| 13:58 | <MWALTERS> from the LTSP server?
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| 13:59 | <mmarconm> Yes
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| 13:59 | <MWALTERS> I use lsyncd to keep /home mirrored across all of our LTSP servers... it is also mirrored from the main office LTSP server to our backup server, where it gets backed up off site
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| 14:00 | <mmarconm> lsyncd .... i dint know this
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| 14:00 | ahhh if one server fails, another server assume, ltsp servers are clusters ?
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| 14:00 | <MWALTERS> all of our servers are separated by WAN, so we can't do auto failover :(
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| 14:01 | <mmarconm> ahhhh =(
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| 14:01 | https://github.com/axkibe/lsyncd <<< this ?
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| 14:01 | <MWALTERS> but with lsyncd, any employees at the office where the server failed, can hop over to another office and log right in
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| 14:01 | and have all their files
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| 14:01 | <mmarconm> Good
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| 14:01 | <MWALTERS> yup
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| 14:01 | that's it
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| 14:02 | <mmarconm> on Windows servers with ldap i setup a roaming folder
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| 14:02 | <MWALTERS> I think it uses inotify to watch for filesystem events, then uses rsync to move the changed files around
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| 14:02 | <mmarconm> the users can loggin wich computer they want
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| 14:02 | the home folder its shared on network
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| 14:02 | <MWALTERS> nice
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| 14:03 | <mmarconm> bi companies uses, do not need to buy a lot of notebook for managers and other employee that travel alot
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| 14:03 | big*
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| 14:04 | take a while to download and the files, home folder and configure offices, but works very well
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| 14:04 | all the files*
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| 15:17 | <uumas> > IRC forever!
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| 15:17 | I'm using Matrix, which really well bridges with irc. There's also bridges of varying maturity for most big services including Telegram, Discord, Slack and WhatsApp.
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| 15:49 | <mmarconm> uumas: matrix ???
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| 15:49 | what is that ?
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| 15:49 | <uumas> mmarconm: https://matrix.org/
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| 15:50 | * mmarconm follow the white habbit | |
| 15:50 | <uumas> I'm using it for these messages right now
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| 15:50 | <mmarconm> good
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| 15:51 | uumas: free ? opensource, payd ?
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| 15:52 | <uumas> Free & opensource. Can be selfhosted or you can use the matrix.org server (or someone else's public server)
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| 16:02 | <mmarconm> i wll test
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| 16:02 | thanks
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| 16:02 | ohhh this plugin for vscode its amazing, vscode developer console
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| 21:50 | <mmarconm> Hi all
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| 21:58 | <mmarconm> the ltsp client boots on /opt/ltsp/images or /opt/ltsp/amd64 ??
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| 21:59 | <vagrantc> can use either, but in generate images have been used in recent versions
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| 21:59 | er, in general images...
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| 21:59 | <mmarconm> for a bkp, i prefer to backup images folder or amd64 folder ?
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| 22:00 | <vagrantc> depends on your configuration...
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| 22:01 | <mmarconm> ahhhh lts.conf ?
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| 22:01 | <vagrantc> more complicated than just lts.conf
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| 22:02 | <mmarconm> i moved amd64 folder to another path, and the boots works normal
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> in general, the images are easier to back up and restore, but they don't backup incrementally ... so depending on your backup capacity...
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| 22:02 | <mmarconm> ahhh Ok
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| 22:02 | using rsync, amd64 its more easy
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> how many old images you want, etc...
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| 22:02 | <mmarconm> Ok
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 22:02 | <mmarconm> but both are for the same purpose
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> sort of
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| 22:03 | <mmarconm> ltsp uses only one, based on configuration
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| 22:03 | so by default, it uses .img
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> if you're generating your images from the directory, then backing up the directory should be fine
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| 22:03 | if you're generating your images from something else, then that won't do you much good :P
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| 22:05 | <mmarconm> vagrantc: where is located the file configuration to specify either .img or folder ?
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> it is possible to just directly NFS mount the /opt/ltsp/ARCH directory instead of using an image ... it has advantages and disadvantages, and for a while didn't work at all
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| 22:05 | <mmarconm> Ok
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| 22:06 | on ltsp-chroot, this command chage to /opt/ltsp/ARCH ?
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| 22:06 | change*
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| 22:07 | <vagrantc> should be in the chroot's /etc/ltsp/update-image.conf
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| 22:07 | er...
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| 22:07 | update-kernels.conf
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| 22:07 | <mmarconm> Ok
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| 22:08 | <vagrantc> it can generate a menu that supports either
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| 22:08 | but it's a bit of a mess to configure
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| 22:09 | that whole part of the system is a bit of a mess ... partly my fault... partly just old history
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| 22:09 | <mmarconm> the /etc/ltsp/update-image.conf do not exists, i think that i need to create manualy or using ltsp-conf
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| 22:09 | <vagrantc> look in /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
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| 22:10 | <mmarconm> vagrantc: i found
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| 22:10 | #TIMEOUT=100
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| 22:10 | <<< time for a delay ? like boot delay ?
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> it gives you a chance to interact with a menu, if a menu is configured
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| 22:16 | <mmarconm> ahhh Ok
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| 22:16 | <vagrantc> it's tenth's of a second, so 100 = 10 seconds
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| 22:19 | <mmarconm> ahhhh
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| 22:20 | i did some tests, i generated a new image with some files installed, booted and workfs fine, replace with the old image, and the new apps installed wanst there
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| 22:39 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc, Quit: leaving) | |
| 23:18 | <mmarconm> MWALTERS: the flags do u use with rsync to copy all files like /home folder or /opt/ltsp/ARCH ?
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| 23:18 | rsync -avpzh ?
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