IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 January 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:34 | <VectorX> where can i find a doc what will show how to create different types of images ie, if i got users who are graphics people and programers, so one image with gimp and another with eclipse or something and load depending on who logged on
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| 06:02 | so how do i control what apps which users see ?
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| 06:33 | <VectorX> or is this not possible
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| 06:37 | <slicknick5181> Hello I am having trouble getting an intel macbook to boot to edubuntu 11.10 ltsp
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| 07:08 | <VectorX> where can i find a doc what will show how to create different types of images ie, if i got users who are graphics people and programers, so one image with gimp and another with eclipse or something and load depending on who logged on, so how do i control what apps which users see ?
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> VectorX: are you talking about thin clients or fat clients?
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| 07:19 | <VectorX> thin
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| 07:20 | <alkisg> Localapps or not?
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| 07:20 | Do you have many application servers?
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| 07:20 | <VectorX> just 1
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| 07:20 | 1 server, 2 thin clients atm
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| 07:20 | <alkisg> Do you want to actually have different programs installed per client group, or you just don't want them in the menus?
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| 07:21 | <VectorX> so one i want to login as graphic designers group and have gimp, other progrermmer and eclipse no gimp
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| 07:21 | <alkisg> You can modify the menus easily. But if you want gimp not to exist in the hard disk that the programmer sees, then that's a different story
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| 07:21 | <VectorX> and another group can have both
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| 07:22 | yeah i dont want it to exist
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| 07:22 | clients dont have hdd's
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> Yes, I understand, but let me try to explain you, I don't think that's what you want
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| 07:22 | So, one way to do that would be with 3 application servers
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| 07:22 | 1 for programmers, 1 for designers, 1 for both
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| 07:23 | You only have 1 server, so you'd need to do 3 different installations on it
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| 07:23 | <VectorX> ic, so one server would always serve what ever apps loaded on it
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| 07:23 | <alkisg> Yes, and you'd waste resources, shared ram etc
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| 07:23 | <VectorX> alkisg is there a doc on this by any chance ?
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| 07:23 | <alkisg> On the other hand, if you just use the edubuntu menu editor, you can create arbitrary groups which only see the apps you want
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| 07:24 | The apps will still exist in the hard disk, but not in the menus
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| 07:24 | <VectorX> ic
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> And RAM will be shared, and maintainance will be much easier, etc
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| 07:24 | To have multiple application servers etc have a look at ltsp-cluster
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| 07:24 | <VectorX> ic
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| 07:25 | well atleast i know where to look now
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| 07:25 | but how can you have mutiple servers on one server
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| 07:25 | beside the obvious of having many servers
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| 07:25 | coz you said "3 different installations on it"
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> One way is to use some virtualization technique, like vbox
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| 07:26 | Of course you'll 3 times more RAM
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| 07:26 | <VectorX> yeah that sux really bad, somehow it ends up swapping
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| 07:26 | atleat on win7 havent tried on linux
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| 07:27 | <alkisg> With how much RAM
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| 07:27 | ?
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| 07:27 | And, how many clients are you planning to have?
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| 07:27 | And, how much RAM do your clients have? maybe they're good enough for localapps or fat clients...
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| 07:28 | <VectorX> well clients got no hdd, min 256, server 16gb
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> Nah with 256 they're not good enough to run gimp locally... that would make multiple images much easier
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| 07:29 | What is the reason you want multiple images, instead of just hiding the menus?
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| 07:29 | I mean, if a programmer really needs gimp, he can just download and run it...
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| 07:30 | <VectorX> i just wanted an ideal situation, worked in a win environment and you only get access to what you need to do your job, i dont want some jackass coming to me and telling me they can run some app using cli
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| 07:30 | if you know what i mean
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| 07:32 | well atleat i think i understand the problem a bit more now, for which group there should be a server to manager their apps
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| 07:33 | oh the other prob i was having was, i got ubuntu 64, but had to run the arch i386, when the clients loaded there were no apps
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| 07:33 | whats the fix for that, so when the client loads, it looks all normal with the latest ubuntu dash loading etc
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> " i dont want some jackass coming to me and telling me they can run some app using cli" ==> as I said, they won't even need a command line, just a local installation of the program
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| 07:35 | <VectorX> :)
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| 07:35 | <alkisg> When you say "there were no apps", can you post a screenshot?
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| 07:35 | <VectorX> let me see if i could
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| 07:36 | give me a sec
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| 07:38 | actually doesnt seem like i can right now, i deleted the 64 system and installed 386 to see if i was doing something wrong
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| 07:38 | basically i only see like a file menu
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| 07:38 | and about 5 others
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| 07:38 | no apps show up
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> So with i386 everything's working fine?
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| 07:39 | <VectorX> yeah
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> Which amd64 ubuntu version did you install? 11.10?
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| 07:39 | <VectorX> yeah
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> Maybe some problem with the graphics driver
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| 07:40 | A screenshot would be helpful
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| 07:40 | <VectorX> i can probably try but it will take some time, coz it starts downloaded files
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| 07:40 | im on a slow connection\
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| 07:41 | but ill do it now, so i can show you, got 64 installed in a vm, and running ltsp-build-client --arch i386 now
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> Don't you already have an i386 chroot?
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| 07:41 | You can just copy it...
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| 07:42 | From your i386 server, to your amd64 vm
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| 07:42 | <VectorX> but thats on another vm
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| 07:42 | im getting the actual server only tomorrow
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> OK
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| 07:42 | <VectorX> so testing on a similar machine inside a vm
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| 07:43 | well atleast that is good to know that i can copy the dir over
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| 07:43 | well i just ran it this way, perhaps it a better testing environment
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| 08:56 | <VectorX> alkisg ok this is wiered, just tried it and it worked, i wonder if the fact that the vm had only 8gb hdd caused a problem b4
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| 08:56 | <alkisg> (09:39:56 πμ) alkisg: Maybe some problem with the graphics driver
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| 08:58 | <VectorX> well nothing has changed otherwise
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| 08:59 | <VectorX> also is there a tute to setup so both 386 and 64 systems can get the proper image
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| 08:59 | beside the fact that it might just be better to load everything in i386
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| 08:59 | on the client side that is
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| 09:00 | <alkisg> VectorX: the tutorials you're asking are at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP, give it a look
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| 09:00 | You don't need 2 client images though
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| 09:00 | From what you're saying, you want 2 server images, but I wouldn't go that way
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| 09:01 | <VectorX> how would you go then
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| 09:03 | <alkisg> You didn't tell me how many clients yet
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| 09:04 | Also, "min RAM 256" ==> what's the max RAM? Maybe you could use some localapps or fat clients, which would offload your server
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| 09:05 | <VectorX> max 512, about 15 clients
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| 09:06 | basically programmers and graphics designers, + mix of both, so stuff like eclipse, gimp, server is i7 2600k, 16gb 1600ram, 120gb ssd primary, + 1tb 2x*raid mirror storage
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| 09:06 | cput overclocked to 4.5 ghz
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| 09:07 | <alkisg> For graphics designers, I'd go for fat clients, because gimp etc is slow over lan
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| 09:07 | But you don't have enough RAM for that
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| 09:07 | (on the clients)
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| 09:08 | So anyway, since all of them are going to be thin clients, I'd just have 3 groups
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| 09:08 | 1 group with no restrictions (==both kids of apps)
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| 09:08 | 1 group for developers, and 1 for programmers
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| 09:08 | All groups served by a single server, a single server image, and a single client image
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| 09:09 | I'd use edubuntu menu editor to configure the menus based on the user groups
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| 09:09 | And, if you really want to disable running apps from the command line, I'd look for other means, non-ltsp related
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| 09:09 | <VectorX> k
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| 09:09 | <alkisg> But I wouldn't bother, anyone can download an app and run it
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| 09:09 | <VectorX> ic
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| 09:09 | once i figure this out, im gonna write some proper tutes on it
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| 09:10 | <alkisg> There are plenty of tutorials for what you want
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| 09:10 | I.e. a plain ltsp setup, with just custom menus :)
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| 09:10 | There are also tutorials for hard cases, look the wiki
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| 09:11 | <VectorX> hmm, perhaps i missed something ill check again
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| 09:11 | sorry if i am asking a lot of dumb sounding questions, im just new to this and trying to come up with something fast to get people to invest in it
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| 09:12 | if i cant show that this works like in the next few days, thell just buy a whole bunch of windows computers and that will be the end of the story
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> You did manage to get the clients to boot with ltsp, right?
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| 09:12 | <VectorX> yeah
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> That, and LDM_DIRECTX=True, and a simple use of edubuntu-menu-editor, end of story
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| 09:13 | You should be able to do that in a couple of hours
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| 09:13 | <VectorX> ill look at the menu editor thing, maybe come back tomorrow if i cant get it up
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> I don't think your ideas about multiple server images etc will help... but do the opposite
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| 09:14 | You just want a simple ltsp setup
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| 09:14 | <VectorX> ok
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| 09:14 | oh before i forget, if i install gig cards on all the clients would that make anything faster or would things be the same ?
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| 09:15 | they dont have roms unfortunately
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
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| 09:15 | If you have that problem, then your network is 10 times slower that it would be with gigabit on the clients
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| 09:15 | If you don't have that problem, then no, upgrading the clients to gigabit won't help much
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| 09:16 | <VectorX> good info
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> Also, if you'll be buying clients, buy good enough to be ltsp fat clients (still without hard disks), so that they can run gimp etc locally
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| 09:17 | That will be much better for the designers than running gimp over LAN
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| 09:17 | And finally corel has just released a graphics suite for linux, maybe the photoshop-oriented designers will prefer to buy and use that
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| 09:19 | <VectorX> cool, ill check it out, so..... how much RAM are you suggesting, i am guessing that is what you are saying
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| 09:19 | coz i could prob get the clients for like 70 to 80 $us
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> I prefer core 2 duo with 2 gb ram
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| 09:21 | <VectorX> oh, thats like 160
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| 09:21 | and thats just the cpu
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> You don't need a good server in that case... any old pc will do
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 09:22 | <ltsp`> alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 09:24 | <VectorX> ok i guess my idea was fat clients needed and hdd so i didnt read about it, ill check those articles out
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> With fat clients, everything runs as fast as if they were using local hard disks
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| 09:25 | So if you're not satisfied with the gimp performance over lan, maybe that's a solution for you
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| 09:25 | <VectorX> well thats why i got a really good server, but lets see, ill get a machine with your specs and test it out
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| 09:26 | <alkisg> Yup what I'm saying is that I would invest the money to good clients, not to a good server
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| 09:26 | (for labs needing multimedia)
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| 09:38 | <VectorX> yeah, thanks man, bit of reading ahead but atleast i know which way to go, ill check it out and come back
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| 10:09 | <markit> hi ppl :)
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| 10:10 | alkisg: hi, your suggestion to use 32 bit pae also for the server, and -c when entering chroot, is really time saving for Fat clients chroot updates, thanks
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| 10:10 | <alkisg> Hi markit.
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| 10:10 | markit: epoptes has some problems with a certificate that expires 1 month after the installation, an update will be out soon
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| 10:11 | We'll ping you for the translation, if you want to update it
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| 10:11 | <markit> I've to deploy my first FAT installation this afternoon, and as usual I'm terribly late with the setup :)
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> Also, the groups feature is ready
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| 10:11 | <markit> alkisg: yep, please ping me for the translation
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| 10:11 | I do watch the repository often, but better be notified by you
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| 10:12 | hate having a new release with incomplete translation
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> I uploaded a test version in epoptes-proposed ppa, if you want to test
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| 10:12 | Hehe, me too
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| 10:12 | <markit> btw, epoptes has been included in WiilDOS 1.8 recently released
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| 10:12 | (an italian distribution tailored for "smart board" but not nonly)
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| 10:12 | it replaces iTalc :)
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> Hehe, cool! But do tell them about the certificate problem
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| 10:12 | I'll put a page about it in the wiki
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| 10:13 | That makes old epoptes installations (< 0.4) stop working after a month
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| 10:13 | <markit> alkisg: unfortunatly I'm not in the condition to test epoptes for some days, but I will as soon as possible
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| 10:13 | ok, I'll write asap to the distro creator
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| 10:16 | (email to the list with a copy and paste of this chat, ok?)
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| 10:17 | <alkisg> Better wait until I write the wiki page
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| 10:17 | So you'll only have to give him a link
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| 10:17 | I'll do that tonight
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| 10:17 | <knipwim> alkisg: i've made a working example of our discussions yesterday
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| 10:18 | https://code.launchpad.net/~wimmuskee/ltsp/plugin-redesign
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| 10:18 | <markit> ok, hope not to forget about it
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| 10:18 | <alkisg> knipwim: cool! I'll check it out in a while, I'm testing epoptes right now...
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| 10:19 | <knipwim> alkisg: going to add some comments in the pad regarding some design decisions
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| 10:19 | <markit> btw, installing this program in FAT chroot I've a dbus error, anything to worry about?
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| 10:19 | Configurazione di vlc-nox (1.1.9-1ubuntu1.3)...
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| 10:19 | process 13615: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory
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| 10:20 | <knipwim> also, posting the pad adress to the dev mailing list so the other devs can participate as well
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| 10:20 | <markit> ltsp-chroot -a i386 -p -d -c
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| 10:20 | knipwim: is there a page that explains what is your project about?
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| 10:21 | <knipwim> yes
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| 10:21 | <markit> (or can you give me just a brief idea?)
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| 10:21 | <knipwim> the dbus issue btw, you have to do a dbus-uuidgen --ensure
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| 10:21 | to create the /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
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| 10:22 | <markit> only once?
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| 10:22 | <knipwim> yes
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| 10:22 | <markit> is it documented somewhere? I've not fuond in ltsp fat page
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| 10:22 | <knipwim> if it's in the chroot, do it when installing
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| 10:24 | and for the project page: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/eeM3b5X9OJ
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| 10:24 | <markit> knipwim: thanks
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| 10:25 | alkisg: I've an error while installing epoptes-client in chroot
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> What error?
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| 10:25 | <markit> but probably because I'm installing from my script and not with your wiki instructions
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| 10:25 | connect: Connection refused
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| 10:25 | connect:errno=111
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| 10:25 | epoptes-client ERROR: Failed to fetch certificate from localhost:789
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> knipwim: you can create named pads by just visiting a url
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| 10:25 | E.g. pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ltsp-plugins-system
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| 10:25 | <knipwim> nice :)
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> markit: is epoptes running on the server?
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| 10:26 | <knipwim> this pad-thing is horribly slow though
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> If not, then that's why the connection is refused
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| 10:26 | knipwim: it seems like this server is having a hard time the last few days
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| 10:26 | <markit> yep, at the moment I'm in chroot, will check asap
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| 10:27 | <alkisg> knipwim: I think the official ubuntu site also got pad support.. maybe we could create one for "committers to ltsp upstream"
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| 10:27 | <knipwim> alkisg: ok, the project page is now at pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ltsp-plugins-system
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| 10:27 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 10:28 | <markit> and no, epoptes was not running
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| 10:29 | should it start automatically at bootup? maybe I've to re-read the wiki, doing installations after many days of "other stuff" is really a problem
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> Yes it should start automatically
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| 10:29 | <markit> (you don't remember what you have done so far)
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| 10:30 | mmmm
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| 10:30 | ps -ax | grep epopt should show it?
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| 10:31 | in epoptes.1.log I've the last shutdown
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| 10:31 | and epoptes.log is empty
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| 10:31 | better reboot :)
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| 10:33 | <alkisg> sudo service epoptes start, if you want to manually start it
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| 10:34 | <markit> great, server replies to ssh login, but screen is black
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| 10:35 | I've a bad feeling...
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| 10:35 | regarding epopts, lots of rerrors at start
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| 10:35 | but maybe are related to the "black screen problem"
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| 10:35 | let me pastebin
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> It's probably related to the certificate problem I've been telling you :)
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| 10:36 | You need to regenerate the certificate and transfer it to your chroot, because it's expired
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| 10:36 | The default openssl options generate a certificate that expires after 1 month
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| 10:37 | So all epoptes installations older than 1 month are broken :(
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| 10:37 | <markit> ok, better remove epoptes now and reinstall next week
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> The update is going to fix that, it'll regenerate a certificate automatically
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| 10:37 | Sure
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| 10:38 | <markit> alkisg: but also, I suppose
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| 10:38 | there is a problem if you specify a group that does not exist
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| 10:38 | I've set /default/eppoptes
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| 10:38 | to use "insegnanti" (teachers)
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| 10:38 | that I've not yet created
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> The socket will try to use the group that doesn't exist
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| 10:38 | So the daemon will fail to start
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| 10:38 | So, don't do that :)
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| 10:39 | <markit> http://pastebin.com/kpx9Qr4n
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| 10:39 | hehehe, is it a bug? ;P
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> No
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| 10:39 | <markit> yes, missing the message "you idiot"
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> A warning to the user would be nice, but it's not a bug
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| 10:39 | <markit> ;P
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 10:39 | <markit> to be serious, yep, a message in the log will help
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| 10:40 | <alkisg> There's a message by python there, isn't it?
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| 10:40 | About access denied or something...
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| 10:40 | <markit> let me check the log
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| 10:40 | # cat /var/log/epoptes.log
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| 10:41 | is just because I've started manually
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| 10:41 | that I know
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| 10:41 | btw, the grup was "insegnante" but I typed "insegnanti"
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| 10:42 | let's reboot and see if now login appears, in addition to epoptes server to start
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| 10:42 | YES
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| 10:43 | alkisg: so epoptes not starting has also bad consequences
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> ?
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| 10:43 | <markit> at least, is what I suppose with this brief test
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| 10:43 | better try again?
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| 10:43 | with epoptes "broken", server did not show login
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> Do you mean that the black screen on your server was caused by epoptes?
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| 10:43 | <markit> fixing the group solved
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| 10:43 | let me try again breaking it again
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> If that happens, I'd file a bug against kde :D
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| 10:44 | <markit> hahaha, I know the typical situation of 10years old bugs ping ponging
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| 10:45 | ok, epoptes is innocent
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| 10:46 | and I've no idea why did not worked before
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| 10:46 | alkisg happy, markit worried
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> I'd hope so, we tried real hard to give epoptes good manners and make him innocent
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| 10:46 | Nah it's linux that happens :D
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| 10:47 | Race conditions with X and startup scripts... common issue
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| 10:48 | <markit> really scaring for teachers
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| 10:48 | and really embarassing when you do a demo
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| 10:49 | btw dbus-uuidgen --ensure suggested by knipwim solved the error, better me add in ltsp fat wiki page, or is something should be done by intallation script and is so a bug?
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> I don't know the issue, I haven't looked into it
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| 10:51 | Will putting the same uuid to all fat clients cause problems?
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| 10:53 | <markit> I've no idea about what we are talking about, unfortunatly
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| 10:54 | just had that message with vlc-nox and tried the solution of knipwim
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| 10:54 | so installation is now ok, but don't know about runtime problems, sigh
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| 10:54 | better remove that file?
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> (12:50:50 μμ) alkisg: I don't know the issue, I haven't looked into it
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| 10:57 | <markit> btw, I've a problem with vlc, if you watch a dvd or a video in general, and you pause it, and then restart, audio is out of sync with images
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| 10:57 | really I feel in the middle of a minefield, lol
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| 10:57 | (not ltsp related)
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| 10:57 | (is kubuntu on smart board pc)
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| 11:00 | dbus-uuidgen man page warnes about having the same uuiid with the different kernel running
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| 11:01 | your house will fire, you will loose your job, and monkeys will eat your pbx
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| 11:01 | knipwim: ping
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| 11:11 | <knipwim> markit: :) hmm, the monkey part is new apparantly
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| 11:11 | <markit> knipwim: they grabbed it from Asterisk, I suppose ;P
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| 11:12 | <knipwim> markit: yeah, i was reading the man page as well
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| 11:12 | better generate the machine id when booting the client
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| 11:13 | especially when running the chroots as a vm
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| 11:15 | <markit> knipwim: so hope fat setup will do automatically
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| 11:15 | when fat client runs
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| 11:15 | (boots, sorry)
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| 11:17 | <knipwim> on gentoo, the machine id is generated in the init script
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| 11:19 | don't know on your distro, or if dbus is initialized at your fat client boot
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| 11:25 | <markit> btw, fat client chroot has really been generated without regarding of language setup
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| 11:26 | also packages language related (i.e. myspell-it) are ignored
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| 11:26 | kubuntu 11.04 here
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| 11:37 | mmm seems a mixed situation, some have been installed, other not, keyboard si to "us" instead of "it". Thanks dpkg and grep I think I've fixed the situation
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| 11:46 | <alkisg> markit: you're supposed to put those in the ltsp-build-client command line, or configuration file
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| 11:46 | If it's not mentioned in the fatclients wiki page, please put them there
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| 11:46 | language-pack-el language-pack-en
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| 11:46 | language-pack-gnome-el language-pack-gnome-en
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| 11:46 | language-pack-kde-el language-pack-kde-en
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| 11:46 | language-support-el language-support-en
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| 11:46 | openoffice.org-l10n-el openoffice.org-help-el openoffice.org-hyphenation
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| 11:46 | <markit> alkisg: so one single ID is ok in fat root?
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| 11:46 | ah, sorry
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> Those are what I have for greek
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| 11:47 | <markit> ok
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| 11:47 | take note and will add tonight to the wiki, hope
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> Put at least the english ones in the wiki configuration file, and mention adding the users' locale specific
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| 11:48 | Also, I'm using doc/sch-scripts/examples/ltsp-build-client.conf:LOCALE="el_GR.UTF-8"
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| 11:48 | To force the greek locale
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| 11:49 | That's why I would prefer a "normal" installation procedure for ltsp chroots, either text-based or GUI-based, and not all those ltsp-build-client* options...
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| 11:49 | <markit> but I love be able to rub by my script
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> Even the alternate cd or the debian installer ask all those locale questions on installation
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| 11:50 | <markit> wouldn't be simpler use "server" setups?
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| 11:50 | when I install the server, it asks for the language and installs all the related stuff
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| 11:50 | chroot should simply grab the language from the server and "do it right", no?
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| 11:51 | wondering why libreoffice has no hyphenation packages :(
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| 11:51 | <alkisg> They moved to myspell
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| 11:52 | <markit> so just with myspell-it I'm fine?
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| 11:52 | <alkisg> I think so... I only tested 12.04 briefly (otherwise I'm at 10.04)
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| 11:52 | <markit> I'll have a look later , thanks a lot
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| 13:54 | <muppis> Clean 32bit oneiric client with nvidia hangs while loading graphics.
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| 17:23 | <fiberglasscivic1> Hello all. I'm looking for help building a client with Linux Mint
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> !ask
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| 17:26 | <ltsp`> alkisg: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 18:26 | <bendos> Is LTSP working with fedora 16 and gnome shell?
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> I don't think many people here use recent versions of fedora and ltsp, you might want to try the fedora mailing lists for that... k12linux? dunno
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| 18:35 | k12ltsp, whats the name
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| 18:36 | <bendos> I suppose I don't mind switching away from gnome shell if another window manager is easier to work with
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> LTSP was unmaintained in fedora for some years
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> Recently warren started working on it again
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| 18:37 | <bendos> SPICE doesn't really seem stable enough for my to deploy in my environment quite yet
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> Then, even more recently, I see that he hasn't done any commits in the trunk
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| 18:37 | So I don't know if he's still maintaining it or not
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| 18:37 | <bendos> I'd have to move to deb I suppose?
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> debian and ubuntu are well supported, yes
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| 18:38 | But it's possible that ltsp is running on fedora 15 or something... not many people here talk about it though, so I'm not sure
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| 18:38 | <bendos> I'm trying to figure out how much processesing power I'll actually need on my clients, you have any frame of reference?
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> The docs (see the channel topic) have some basic formulas
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| 18:39 | <bendos> Thanks
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> It all depends on what your clients will work on, though
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| 18:39 | <bendos> You mean workload wise?
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> E.g. developing on gedit is much different than watching youtube
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| 18:39 | Workload, network bandwidth, multimedia etc
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| 18:40 | <bendos> I suppose I should read the docs a bit more
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| 18:43 | ltsp isn't really targeting the same use cases as spice is it?
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> vagrantc, stgraber: tomorrow we'll upload the new epoptes version... if you got some time in the next days to put it in the archives, it'll be nice, as the certificate problem has broken all installations older than a month
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| 20:44 | <stgraber> alkisg: sure, poke me on IRC once it shows up in "rmadison -u debian epoptes" and I'll sync it into Ubuntu
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| 20:45 | <alkisg> Thanks :)
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| 20:45 | <vagrantc> alkisg: should i test the existing trunk? are there major changes pending?
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| 20:45 | <stgraber> alkisg: btw, you may have noticed that the only problem the Technical Board had with Edubuntu's application for LTS status was the vnc4 dependency we inherit from epoptes
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| 20:45 | alkisg: any plan to use a supported vnc client?
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no major changes, just a couple of small bug fixes
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| 20:46 | stgraber: unfortunately vinagre reverse connections are broken,
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| 20:46 | ...did remmina get in the default installation?
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so if i test trunk today, tomorrow should be a breeze?
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> The problem with remmina is that it doesn't support multiple reverse connections, so we'd have to invoke it on different ports
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| 20:47 | vagrantc: yup
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| 20:47 | <stgraber> alkisg: I don't think it did yet but it may still happen
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| 20:47 | alkisg: can you have epoptes work with both remmina and xvnc4viewer and just use whichever is installed?
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> stgraber: so with the current bugs/feature requests not fixed yet, we can't use either vinagre or remmina with some reasonable code
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| 20:48 | <stgraber> alkisg: this way if remmina gets moved to main, it'll just use that (assuming we change the dependency to remmina-vnc | xvnc4viewer)
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| 20:48 | alkisg: hmm, ok...
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> The problem is that remmina doesn't listen for multiple reverse connections on the same port
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| 20:48 | The developer said he'd look into it, but I don't think he's fixed it yet
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| 20:49 | So we'd have to manage multiple remmina instances, one for each client, and if some client doesn't connect for a reason, we'd have to use timeouts to close the remmina instance, and it gets very complicated
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| 20:50 | We could easily support vinagre, as we did in the past, but its reverse connections were completely broken the last time I checked
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| 20:50 | They broke sometime in the last year, I don't think they're fixed yet
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| 20:51 | <stgraber> alkisg: yeah, I just had a quick look at remmina's git and nothing changed over the last 3-4 months, so it doesn't look good for it moving to main or for your bug to be fixed
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> I'll check vinagre in precise, to see if reverse connections work again
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| 20:51 | <stgraber> alkisg: can you maybe retry vinagre's reverse connections on 12.04 (we now have 3.3.3-0ubuntu1) and if they don't work, point me to the bug report? I may be able to put some pressure to get that fixed
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> OK, ty, will do that tomorrow (kinda late here :()
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| 20:51 | <stgraber> sure :)
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| 20:52 | I'd really like to avoid having to maintain both a vnc client and a vnc server for 5 years ;)
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| 20:52 | Just x11vnc should be fine as we did in the past (iTalc used it with an in-code copy + patches)
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| 20:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and then i'll have to test vinagre on debian again?
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think we'd better leave that as another upload
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| 20:53 | (vinagre)
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| 20:53 | Because of the certificate problem, it's kinda pressing to have a release soon
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| 20:53 | <vagrantc> indeed.
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| 20:54 | <alkisg> And I think we'd also need to use dconf to enable reverse connections, so it won't be too quickly implemented
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| 20:54 | (as I'd like to support older versions that use gconf too)
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| 20:57 | <stgraber> alkisg: for vinagre, if reverse connections work, you could probably just change the dependency to "xvnc4viewer || vinagre (>=3.33~)"
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| 20:57 | well, the other way around obviously :)
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> Ah, and ignore old vinagre versions, nice
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> and add a bunch of code to support both
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| 20:58 | <stgraber> right
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> stgraber: i think the remmina git is now hosted in freerdp, right?
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| 20:58 | <stgraber> alkisg: ah, could be. I checked the one on sourceforge so that may explain why it looked outdated.
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| 21:00 | alkisg: yeah https://github.com/FreeRDP/Remmina looks a lot better
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> I wonder if Ubuntu pulls from that, though
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| 21:00 | <stgraber> though the vnc plugin still wasn't touched recently (same as the one on sourceforge)
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 21:00 | OK, I'll only check vinagre
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| 21:01 | <stgraber> alkisg: https://github.com/FreeRDP/Remmina/commits/master/remmina-plugins/vnc/remminapluginvnc.c
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> In fact let me reboot to precise... brb
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| 21:10 | <alkisg> stgraber: yup reverse connections work now
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| 21:10 | vagrantc: wanna wait until tommorow for the testing then?
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i don't have as much time tomorrow as i do today
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| 21:11 | <stgraber> alkisg: awesome! one less scary package to maintain :)
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| 21:11 | <alkisg> OK let's leave vinagre for a later upload then... stgraber do we have time (in the precise cycle) for a second upload later on?
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| 21:11 | It'll be smaller, so easier to test
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| 21:16 | <stgraber> alkisg: sure, just try to do it in the next 2 weeks so that still leaves us some time before feature freeze
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| 21:16 | <alkisg> Cool, I'll do it tomorrow, I hope vagrantc can test+upload the new version with vinagre before then
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| 21:17 | So tomorrow I'll upload two versions, one ==current trunk + a few fixes, and another == with vinagre support
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| 21:17 | <stgraber> cool
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| 21:18 | * stgraber really needs to put some time aside for LTSP ... need to update to current trunk and try to get ldm in sync with Debian (finally) | |
| 21:18 | <alkisg> vagrantc, when vinagre support gets there, do you prefer xvnc4viewer | vinagre, or vinagre | xvnc4viewer?
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| 21:18 | stgraber: we don't mind about the order in edubuntu, since vinagre is already pulled in, right?
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| 21:18 | <stgraber> alkisg: right, the order shouldn't matter for Ubuntu
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| 21:19 | <alkisg> So e.g. xvnc4viewer | vinagre will make it lighter for kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu etc
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| 21:19 | <stgraber> right
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| 21:19 | <alkisg> Nice
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| 21:19 | <stgraber> if they prefer to have vinagre (so that it's covered by the LTS), they'll just need to explicitly seed vinagre
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'd prefer the smaller dependency be the first, unless it's really ugly or otherwise undesireable
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| 21:20 | <alkisg> We all agree then, settled :)
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> i've also got to explore updating LTSP to trunk...
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| 21:21 | i did a few test runs ... i think it's pretty broken in testing right now.
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| 21:22 | <stgraber> yeah, that was also my impression ... that and I need to poke at my gtk3 port of ldm
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| 21:23 | at least I know that gtk2 will still be part of the LTS so it's not as critical as I thought it'd be though still would be nice to have the port done
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| 21:24 | current state is "starts and lets you login" but it's horribly ugly (no theme and no wallpaper)
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| 21:24 | * vagrantc wonders about gtk2 in debian | |
| 21:25 | <stgraber> I think it's still around in Debian because of the huge list of reverse dependencies, a transition to gtk3 is a huge pain because you may end up having to rewrite half of the code to use the new API
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| 21:25 | especially for things that were ported from gtk1 to gtk2 and so depend on already half deprecated gtk2 code...
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| 21:29 | <alkisg> 'night all :)
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