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02:05 | <bennabiy> I am not sure if BTS is still going on, but I really wish we would not leave thin clients in the dust... It is what made us use LTSP. Please save the thin client!
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02:06 | I read through the different comments made, and I know that fat clients are more appealing for those with heavier hitting hardware, but please don't leave the rest of us behind! :)
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04:39 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: definitely not going to abandon thin clients
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04:39 | bennabiy: but may switch the default behavior
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04:43 | bennabiy: although, there are many facotrs beyond the control of ltsp developers that may make thin clients impractical in the not too distant future
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04:44 | much software isn't written with thin clients in mind, alternatives to X, more apps requiring 3-D graphics...
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12:24 | <sd34> hello
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12:27 | <Hyperbyte> Hi!
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12:29 | <sd34> I see alksg is there, may I talk to you sir? :)
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12:30 | I have an issue with LTSP-live edition on Edubuntu
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12:30 | and was advised to refer to you by Hyperbyte
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12:32 | <Hyperbyte> !alkisg
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12:32 | <ltsp`> alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail.
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12:32 | <Hyperbyte> :-D
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12:32 | <sd34> the problem is the automatic configuration gets stuck in a loop and doesn't end or give an error whatsoever
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12:33 | ahahah :D
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12:33 | <Hyperbyte> Did you try the live DVD of the stable release?
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12:33 | Out of curiousity.
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12:33 | <sd34> yes, same issue but gets stuck at a different moment
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12:33 | <Hyperbyte> What moment?
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12:34 | <sd34> the one right before it when it tries to restart a system that is called something like openbs*** can't remember the exact name
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12:34 | I can test it now to tell you
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12:36 | I'm booting the latest stable release for Edubuntu (i.e. 12.04)
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12:38 | taking longer than expected, sorry
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12:40 | <sd34> loading up Edubuntu 12.04
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12:41 | openbsd-inetd
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12:42 | that's when it gets stuck on Edubuntu 12.04
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12:42 | "restarting openbsd-inetd"
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12:43 | still in a loop...
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12:46 | <sd34> what I find odd is that this happens on different machines with different network cards..
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12:46 | none of them is older than 3 years
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12:47 | <highvoltage> sd34: that's very odd. I've personally tested that quite a bit on Edubuntu 12.04 on different hardware. have you checked that the disc's checksum is correct? (maybe a bad download/burn?)
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12:47 | * highvoltage bbl | |
12:47 | <sd34> I'm trying on both USB and DVD
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12:48 | same isos anyway...
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12:48 | I may have a disc check..
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12:48 | I'm always trying on Live OS, never installed
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12:49 | because that's what I should do, use it over a preconfigured Windows IT laboratory in a school without making permanent changes
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12:50 | I need LTSP-live to work for this :\
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12:53 | I'm installing with YUMI, might that be to blame for strange behaviours?
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12:54 | <Hyperbyte> "Massage salon Yu & Mi"
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12:54 | * alkisg waves and reads the backlog... | |
12:54 | <Hyperbyte> Second result while Googling for that. :P
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12:54 | <sd34> on Edubuntu 13.10 LTSP-live gets stuck at "Configuring LTSP"
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12:54 | Hyperbyte: LOL
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12:54 | <alkisg> sd34: I haven't tried ltsp-live, sorry
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12:54 | <sd34> that's an enhanced version of Universal USB Installer
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12:55 | <Hyperbyte> sd34, I still don't see why you can't just install one PC with LTSP. Will be much easier.
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12:55 | <sd34> alkisg, thank you. What's your take on this though?
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12:55 | <alkisg> sd34: it's very easy to setup ltsp in a usb stick and demonstrate with that
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12:55 | (or in an external usb disk)
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12:55 | <Hyperbyte> Sure you'll have to put in a spare harddisk for the installation if you want to keep the existing OS intact, but that's not such an issue is it?
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12:55 | <sd34> alkisg you mean actually installing on an USB not launching an ISO right?
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12:55 | <alkisg> Right
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12:56 | <sd34> Hyperbyte: unfortunately the laboratory I have to work with has very very old computers and I'm almost certain they won't boot from USB
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12:56 | <alkisg> Then you press e.g. f12 to invoke the boot menu on any PC, select "boot from usb", and you can demonstrate
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12:56 | Of course that PC will be the ltsp server, so it needs to be relatively new, e.g. 5 years old
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12:56 | <sd34> alkisg that's what I hope I can do, I'm having a teacher tell me if USB boot is enabled on the server computer
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12:57 | <Hyperbyte> sd34, open case, take out harddisk... put in temporary harddisk, install LTSP... mess around with it... when done, replace original harddisk.
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12:57 | <sd34> it is from 2004 if I recall, so.. lol
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12:57 | Hyperbyte: yep, not something they can regularly do though :S
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12:57 | <alkisg> You won't have a decent performance then. Better take a laptop with you to demonstrate
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12:57 | <Hyperbyte> sd34, wait, you are doing a DEMO aren't you?
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12:57 | So you don't have to do it regularly... just for the demo.
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12:58 | <alkisg> 300€ for a laptop/ltsp server, and 60 for a switch with a 1 gigabit port => total 360€ for each school to "upgrade" to ltsp
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12:58 | <sd34> Hyperbyte: I already showed teachers how powerful Edubuntu can be and they'd like to use it
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12:58 | <alkisg> markit is also doing ltsp installations in italy, you might want to talk with him as well
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12:58 | (in schools)
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12:59 | <sd34> alkisg, thanks for the input
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13:00 | they can't afford buying a laptop, their IT laboratory is made up of dismissed office desktops from lates 90s and early 00s
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13:00 | just to give you an insight of what the budget is like
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13:00 | <Hyperbyte> sd34, you're constantly thinking within confines of the tools you're given. Start thinking outside the box.
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13:00 | <markit> :)
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13:01 | hi sd34
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13:01 | <sd34> hi markit :)
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13:01 | <sd34> Hyperbyte: I'll think of something
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13:01 | markit: do you install Edubuntu in Italian schools? :)
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13:01 | <markit> sd34: I've put online the doc, in italian, I've created, I give you the url privately
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13:01 | <alkisg> sd34: without a server, don't even think about ltsp
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13:02 | Just put lubuntu locally on the clients and call it a day
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13:02 | <markit> sd34: I use kubuntu
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13:02 | <Hyperbyte> sd34, I bet you 5000 euros that I could acquire a second hand computer or server in Italy decent enough for running LTSP for absolutely no money at all.
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13:03 | <markit> sd34: I've limited time now since I'm at work, you can email me or hope to find me online next days after dinner. In any case alkisg is a ltsp guru, I'm not
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13:03 | <sd34> markit thank you :)
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13:03 | Hyperbyte: suggestions are more than welcome
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13:04 | <Hyperbyte> sd34, but this all -has- to start with you getting rid of the "no can do" mentality. :)
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13:05 | <sd34> well, I understand. I just have to do everything on my own and I'm not sooo much techsavvy
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13:06 | so I kind of fear of making mistakes since it's not my stuff you know
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13:06 | but ok, I'll follow your suggestion :)
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13:06 | Indiegogo would be a nice start
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13:07 | <Hyperbyte> You could contact some semi-big local companies, see if they have some old hardware you could use?
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13:07 | <sd34> that's how the laboratory was built :D
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13:07 | <Hyperbyte> Sell it as a community project, mail some IT companies if they could help
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13:08 | sd34, start by testing at home and not the school. LTSP can work anywhere. Do YOU have a spare computer or harddisk?
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13:08 | <sd34> yes, I'm trying different computers on my LAN
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13:08 | <Hyperbyte> So do an installation on one of those PC's
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13:08 | <sd34> now I will try installing on a USB drive from distro's installation wizard itself
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13:09 | <Hyperbyte> Live media is fun for doing a quick demo or showcase. Apart from that, it shouldn't be used.
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13:09 | <sd34> Hyperbyte: ok, I will install it on a USB to see if things start working correctly
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13:09 | <Hyperbyte> sd34, do yourself a favor and unplug the harddisk while you do that. I've had Ubuntu installing bootloader in the wrong place many times...
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13:09 | <sd34> I can try right now
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13:10 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: many teachers here teach to 3-4 schools, so they do it with their own external usb disk (to avoid having to maintain 4 ltsp installations in schools that are not their own)
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13:10 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, clever! :)
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13:10 | <sd34> I will pay attention to details
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13:10 | alkisg that would be wonderful for me
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13:10 | <alkisg> And some of them use their personal laptops, when the school doesn't have an appropriate server...
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13:20 | <sd34> I will install it on my desktop, I have a spare partion for linux
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13:20 | partition*
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13:21 | will update you if it works :)
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13:22 | see you!
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13:31 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: That is encouraging. Thank you for the reassurance.
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15:39 | <Zaphoid> I'm having an issue updating the kernel of a LTSP guest running on an Ubuntu 12.04 host. Guest is stuck at Kernel version 3.2, where host has moved onto 3.8. I think this may be negatively affecting other things on the guests.
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15:39 | The issue is simply that it doesn't see the kernel update.
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15:43 | <cliebow> you ve rebuilt the kernel??vagrantc just popped in erhaps he can help
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15:45 | <Zaphoid> Not really rebuilding, just trying to use apt-get to do what it is supposed to do.
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15:48 | <alkisg> Zaphoid: 12.04 is still on the 3.2 kernel, unless you installed from the 12.04.03 CD
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15:48 | <alkisg> Kernel upgrades aren't automatic between the various lts* kernels
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15:49 | (lts-quantal, lts-raring etc)
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15:49 | So you have the precise kernel in the chroot, and the raring kernel outside of it
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15:49 | <Zaphoid> Gotchya
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15:49 | <alkisg> If you want the 3.8 kernel in the chroot, you'll have to install that manually
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15:49 | <Zaphoid> I'd rather not.
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15:49 | <alkisg> apt-get install linux-image-generic-lts-raring etc
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15:49 | <Zaphoid> I installed from 12.04.3 LTS, thought that was, well, the right one.
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15:50 | <alkisg> It was, it shouldn't matter if your clients get a different kernel than your server
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15:50 | <Zaphoid> Ok. I guess my cinnamon issues are unrelated, then.
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15:50 | Have to bug them for help.
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16:07 | <vagrantc> i don't get the impression cinnamon works as a thin client
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16:07 | <ogra_> it heavily relies on compositing
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16:11 | <jammcq> good morning friends !
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16:11 | * vagrantc waves | |
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16:11 | <jammcq> vagrantc: hey, gadi get you to the proper place yesterday?
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16:11 | <vagrantc> yup!
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16:12 | <jammcq> fantastic
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16:12 | I love it when a plan comes together
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16:13 | <cliebow> very nicely engineered gentlemen
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16:13 | <vagrantc> google was off by abou a quarter mile or so, so we had to use our brains
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16:14 | * vagrantc wonders if ltsp-localapps --wait is used by anyone | |
16:15 | <vagrantc> also, wonder if we could run ltsp-localappsd as the user on ltsp5
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16:16 | needed to run it as a user for ltsp6 testing
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16:17 | <jammcq> cliebow: hey chuck
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16:17 | <jammcq> Is that your USB mem stick that Aaron put the photos on?
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16:19 | <cliebow> yeas.. dont remember what else is on it..
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16:19 | <cliebow> you got pics ok?
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16:19 | bunch of archival stuyff...all my passwords..that kind of tyhing
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16:20 | 8~)
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16:21 | <alkisg> vagrantc: was it decided if in ltsp6, there will always be a local user with the same uid/gid as the server user, even if localapps aren't used? (in order to simplify the code...)
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16:21 | <jammcq> yep, I got the picks. I have to go to the post office today and mail back the room key for the seawall motel. I can drop your mem stick in an envelope, if you give me your address
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16:21 | <vagrantc> alkisg: didn't decide that, no
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16:22 | alkisg: but the code definitely implements that so far :)
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16:22 | <alkisg> If the ssh channel is always owned by the user, then that makes a lot of things easier
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16:23 | We don't even need to use xprops anymore, we can use the channel
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16:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg: looks like it's briefly owned by root, and then chowned to the user
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16:24 | alkisg: the ssh tuneel is only one-direction, though... no?
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16:24 | <alkisg> No
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16:24 | <alkisg> You would need some listener, sure,
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16:24 | <vagrantc> ah, yes
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16:24 | <alkisg> but bidirectional communication is surely possible
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16:24 | <vagrantc> listener server-side
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16:25 | the client can initiate commands on the server as is
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16:26 | <alkisg> For example, from the client, ssh -M socket server ltsp-read-next-command
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16:26 | <vagrantc> what's ltsp-read-next-command do?
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16:27 | <alkisg> Then by writing to some socket etc you could send commands to the client, for shutdown, logoff, stats, whatever
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16:27 | <vagrantc> could even queue commands up sequentially
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16:27 | <alkisg> The usual buffering done by sockets, yeah
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16:27 | <vagrantc> sounds good
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16:27 | goodbye xatomwait!
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16:28 | <alkisg> So we're wayland-ready :P
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16:28 | (or, console-ready)
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16:29 | <cliebow> jammcq: box 298 southwest harbor me 04679
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16:29 | jammcq, thank you..i ll get you a Lowenbrau next5 time we cross paths
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16:38 | <jammcq> heh
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16:42 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Morning
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16:42 | jammcq: Hey jey
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16:42 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: heya
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16:42 | sbalneav: did you see my new branch?
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16:42 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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16:42 | <sbalneav> No! Lemme see!
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16:42 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: added sshfs homedir mounting and localapps
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16:43 | <sbalneav> Url?
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16:43 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: bzr pull http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrantc/ltsp-pam-examples
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16:45 | required one patch for ltsp-localappsd that i was working on figuring out how to patch so it works with ltsp5 or ltsp6
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16:45 | since ltsp-localapsd just rns as the user in ltsp6
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16:46 | * vagrantc should go to breakfast first | |
16:52 | <sbalneav> Hmmm not a branch.
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16:52 | <vagrantc> hm
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16:52 | sbalneav: bzr pull http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/ltsp-pam-examples
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16:53 | oops
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16:53 | vagrant vs. vagrantc
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16:53 | i should just merge it into my launchpad branch soon
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16:54 | just put it there as a quick prevention against machne failure
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16:55 | if i can figure out the ssh urls for launchpad...
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17:01 | sbalneav: should be psuhed to launchpad now
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17:02 | oh, i ned to update the patch that hardcodes mate-session
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17:11 | <cliebow> hey vagrantc:installing debian i m never prompted to set root pw..or stting the clock..debian server stable
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17:12 | <vagrantc> cliebow: using the default install?
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17:12 | <cliebow> yeah...
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17:12 | <vagrantc> huh. always asks me
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17:13 | <cliebow> i ll reinstall for the hell of it..
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17:13 | <vagrantc> whre'd you install image come from?
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17:13 | it's possible to preseed those questions out, for sure
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17:13 | <cliebow> debian stable 7.02 i386
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17:14 | im going to 64 bit anyway
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17:14 | <vagrantc> i mostly do pxe installs
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17:14 | <cliebow> just doing a virtual machine on a macbook..
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17:14 | <vagrantc> would be worth reporting a bug if the CD images were broken
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17:15 | <cliebow> i ll double check this
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17:15 | <vagrantc> sure
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17:15 | * vagrantc continues to fail at breakfast | |
17:15 | * jammcq always succeeds at breakfast | |
17:16 | <cliebow> heheh
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17:18 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: should we make a shared ltsp-pam-examples branch in ~ltsp-upstream?
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17:20 | <cliebow> vagrantc, my bad..not paying attention
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17:22 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: https://code.launchpad.net/~vagrantc/ltsp/ltsp-pam-examples/+merge/193820
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17:23 | sbalneav: probably need to add sme modular hooks into the xsesion script so we can drop code into scripts and such
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22:58 | <q2dg> Hello. I would like to know if you know there are any plans to support LTSP in Fedora
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22:58 | I know k12linux.org, but it seems dead. Only in mailing list there are some activity, but they use a unknown version of Ltsp which isn't linked anywhere...
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22:59 | It's really a pitty Ltsp isn't available in Fedora, when in Ubuntu is so easy to implement...I don't know why it is
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22:59 | Thanks
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23:10 | Well, I see you in http://irclogs.ltsp.org./
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23:10 | Thanks
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