IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 21 May 2008 (all times are UTC)

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01:49	<Pascal_1> Bonjour
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02:04	<zamba> how can i change the language of my ltsp environment?
02:04	(the displayed language)
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02:23	<ChrisM_813> hi
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02:26	<Chris_M> on my client i got an error from module-detect.c: failed to detect any sound hardware. and E: module.c: Failed to load module "module-detect" (argument: ""): initialization faile.d E: main.c Module load failed. E: main.c: Failed to initalize daemon. Is this normal when there's no sound hardware?
02:29	<ogra> we starts to run pulse by default, if you want to quiten its moaning set SOUND=False for that client (or globally) in lts.conf, its rather cosmetic and does no harm
02:29	s/starts//
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02:30	<Chris_M> ah thanks, that's what I wanted to hear ;)
02:31	<Nubae> morning.... does italc have a client side where students/people needing support can contact a teacher/support person?
02:31	<Chris_M> do you know by any chance if drivers for xfree 4.2 can be compiled for ubuntus 8.04 xorg without any change?
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02:33	<Nubae> best ask in #ubuntu
02:34	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: which driver?
02:34	<Chris_M> guess ^^ nsc
02:34	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: might work, might not
02:34	X core has evolved a lot
02:35	<Chris_M> thought so, but i just figured i might only need to set another refresh rate for the display
02:35	because my clients screen is all white now
02:35	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: you'd need to file a bug on the X.org bugzilla, pointing to your hardware vendor's own driver sources, and see if anyone agrees to merge their changes.
02:35	<ogra> sounds like gambling
02:36	but some people win the lottery, you never know ...
02:36	<Q-FUNK> ogra: sort-of. merging what we need to support -nsc inside -geode is already planned. if some vendors came upp with interesting patches, we'd love to hear about it
02:37	ogra: fyi, nsc is what's in the dbe60 too.
02:37	<vagrantc> ogra: any word on aufs vs. unionfs in ubuntu?
02:38	<ogra> vagrantc, not yet, we have a compcache for liveCD session later today, thats where i got the people together to ask
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02:39	<vagrantc> in any case, it shouldn't be hard to support both ...
02:39	<ogra> right
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02:40	<vagrantc> i should just re-work the patches to be able to support both easily...
02:40	<ogra> which ones ? there are multiple iirc
02:41	<Nubae> does anyone know if italc has a visible client side (the docs mention something like this, but now I'm not sure)
02:41	<vagrantc> well, i was looking at the very short patches recently submitted in the debian BTS
02:41	<Q-FUNK> ogra: basically, supporting older geodes is a low-priority item, but it will be merged back in time. anyhow, it's needed before we can implement PCI ID matching for configless X, because the same ID overlaps 2 drivers.
02:41	<ogra> Nubae, no, it hasnt since there is no point in having it yet ...
02:42	<Nubae> ok, I can see a point though... to signal for help by clients...
02:42	<ogra> 1.0.8/9 will enable it again since then it will have a client side message system
02:42	<Nubae> ah great...
02:42	<ogra> Nubae, if there is no function tied to the icon in the panel yet, what would you signal ?
02:43	it just takes up panel space without functionallity... nothing we usually do in ubuntu
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02:44	<Nubae> yeah, was just thinking maybe it did signal teacher/support, but that's good news on 1.0.8 messaging... will be a much loved application by our support staff
02:45	<ogra> Q-FUNK, well, xfree 4.2 is pretty old ... i wouldnt even count on things compiling cleanly
02:45	<vagrantc> weird. unsquashed debian sid LTSP environment: 548 MB ... squashfs image: 514 MB
02:48	<Nubae> I also get something really weird with my low fat clients... they get to the login screen and its like a constant alt+cntrl+backspace... restarts X continually, and then brings up a blue screen telling me gdm has been restarted 6 times within 60 seconds
02:49	<Q-FUNK> ogra: I don't expect old drivers to compile cleanly either. that's why we'll instead be cherry-picking bits from -nsc to add gx1_* files into -geode.
02:49	<Nubae> I can't seem to find the culprit, and I'm pretty sure its not my X drivers...
02:50	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: is there a geode module in ltsp5/hardy?
02:50	Q-FUNK: or is nsc still the way to go?
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02:50	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: I'm talking about the entry in lts.conf ;)
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02:53	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: nsc
02:54	http://wiki.x.org/wiki/AMDGeodeDriver?action=show
02:55	<Chris_M> thanks
02:57	<zamba> i have created an image for the kiosk mode.. and i now want to create a new image for regular desktop clients.. what files do i need to know about when "copying" the kiosk mode out of the way, so i can set up a new image?
02:59	<Chris_M> may I ask what tools you used zamba? sabayon/pessulus or something different?
02:59	<zamba> Chris_M: something different, i think?
02:59	i've never heard of sabayon or pessulus
02:59	i used ltsp-build-client
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03:00	<Chris_M> but how did you kiosk the image then? :)
03:01	http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/ch03s07.html if you're interested
03:01	<zamba> hm? i used ltsp-build-client --kiosk
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03:05	<Q-FUNK> ogra: in the above wiki page, the main idea is that since -nsc (GX1) and the newer GX (a.k.a. GX2) that is supported by -geode have PCI ID overlap, -geode can currently only match with an LX.
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03:06	<ogra> ah
03:07	<Q-FUNK> ogra: the only way we can implement support PCI ID matching for GX2 is if we import GX1 support into -geode. then, we can match for GX1 hardware too.
03:08	<Chris_M> zamba: is see, didn't know about that switch
03:08	<johnny> Chris_M, they aren't the same thing
03:08	kiosk just runs firefox locally i think
03:08	<Q-FUNK> that's why the patch bryce recently merged for xserver-xorg-core only implemented PCI ID matching for LX.
03:08	<johnny> something like that
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03:08	<Chris_M> johnny: i was just about to find out what it does, thanks
03:09	<johnny> if you want a full desktop env, then you definitely need other tools like sabayon,pessulus, and whatever the kde tool is called if you lean that way
03:12	<ogra> Q-FUNK, well doesnt sound unsolvable in intrepid though, so we can ask for a backport at least
03:12	<Chris_M> johnny: thanks, that's where I'm headed
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03:13	<primary> hi we have amd thin clients where do I get the correct driver
03:14	<Q-FUNK> ogra: bryce and I already agreed on attempting an SRU for Hardy on most upcoming -geode changes.
03:14	<ogra> cool !
03:14	<Q-FUNK> ogra: at least those that implement support for new hardware or fix support for existing hardare seem like they could be allowed.
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03:16	<Q-FUNK> ogra: the item about porting support for newer RandR is the only one that could not remotely qualify for SRU
03:16	<alkisg> Hello, I'm trying to translate ldm to Greek. I've made a .mo file, put it to chroot etc. If on the client I give "gettext -d ldm 'Username'" I get the Greek text. But ldm still displays the English text. Any ideas? (Ubuntu hardy)
03:16	<Q-FUNK> but importing support for newer geodes might be accepted
03:17	<primary> q-funk: can you drop link for your amd stuff
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03:18	<Q-FUNK> primary: which distro?
03:18	debian and ubuntu already have everything you need. fedora shold have it too
03:19	<primary> ubuntu hardy
03:19	<Q-FUNK> primary: the driver is -geode
03:19	<stgraber> ogra: "Intel Classmate coordination" meaningful title :)
03:19	<primary> just tested HP client works well but not amd -geode yes
03:20	<Q-FUNK> primary: which hardware do you have exactly?
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03:20	<Q-FUNK> which chipset does the HP stuff have, also?
03:20	<ogra> stgraber, yeah ....
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03:21	<primary> AMD Geode LX800 (500mhz)
03:21	<Q-FUNK> your HP client has an LX800 in it?
03:22	<primary> HP stuff works well, have 15 of them ,
03:22	amd has lx800 in it x 40 terminals
03:23	I dont really care about HP stuff need to get AMD Geode LX800 terminals going, I need load the correct driver
03:23	<alkisg> ogra, I (also) want to modify ldm source to add a sign up feature for new users (=students), and also add a menu item for rdesktop (if it is installed in the chroot). But I don't want to be merging sources on each ldm update, so I'd like it (if my code is good enough) to go upstream. Do I have any chances? Will anyone be interested in such features? What is the prefered way to do something like that?
03:23	<Q-FUNK> primary: which manufacturer's hardware has an lx800?
03:24	<primary> find info here : http://www.inveneo.org/?q=Computingstation
03:24	it is AMD
03:24	<ogra> alkisg, could you set up a wikipage describing the implementation plan for the rdesktop stuff ?
03:24	sounds very intresting, but tricky to implement
03:25	<alkisg> ogra, sure, where? I'm an experienced programmer but a newbie to Linux
03:25	ogra, I'd also like to hear your thoughts about security in a sign up feature
03:25	<Q-FUNK> primary: no, it's not. it's FIC: http://www.fic.com.tw/product/minipc.aspx
03:25	<ogra> alkisg, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMEnhancements
03:25	just create a page there
03:26	<stgraber> ogra: hmm, I guess you could have a lts.conf entry for the RDESKTOP server (if we don't have that already) and another LDM_RDESKTOP. If LDM_RDESKTOP=True show an icon or menu entry. Doesn't look like that hard actually.
03:26	<alkisg> ogra, I'm thinking about a request from student/approval from teacher model, but of course I'd like to hear suggestions. OK, I'll put my thoughts on the wiki.
03:26	<ogra> i'm currently at the ubuntu dev summit so cant really pay constant attention to IRC
03:26	<primary> qfunk:yep
03:26	<Q-FUNK> primary: please add the hardy-proposed repository to your sources, upgrade xserver-xorg-core and xserver-xorg-video-geode to what's there, then rebuild the LTSP chroot.
03:27	<ogra> stgraber, would ldm kill itself if you click the button and run rdsektop ? would it switch consoles ? would that idea work on all distros ldm runs on etc etc
03:29	<primary> Qfunk: ok added "proposed" , how/where do I update xserv.core and .video (excuse me learning this side, newbie)
03:29	<stgraber> ogra: can't it just : rdesktop -f <blah> ? that would open rdesktop fullscreen, the when the session is closed you'll see ldm again
03:29	<ogra> you mean on top of ldm ?
03:29	<stgraber> yep
03:29	<ogra> sure :)
03:30	<stgraber> I don't see the need to start a second X server for it
03:30	<Q-FUNK> ogra: do we have any documentation about adding sources to the chroot and upgrading packages that primary could read?
03:30	<ogra> well, currently if rdesktop is enabled it starts a second one
03:30	<alkisg> ogra, stgraber: that's what I was thinking about, because rdesktop times out after some inactivity (on the windows logon screen), so it would be best to fallback to ldm. But if memory usage is a problem, it could kill ldm before and start it again afterwards.
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03:30	<stgraber> yes, as it's a screen script but I don't think we need that when starting from ldm
03:31	<ogra> Q-FUNK, primary, http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-updates.html#id531224 might help
03:32	<alkisg> ogra, stgraber: but I think ldm starts X, so it would be annoying if ldm gets killed. So maybe like stgraber suggested.
03:32	<ogra> stgraber, right, but i'd rather not have two ways that could clash, so the new method should rather replace the old ...
03:32	(not sure you can easily multiple rdesktops on one machine )
03:33	<alkisg> ogra, I've tried it, apart from the memory usage for 2 screens no problem. The only annoying thing is on windows logon timeout, X gets killed and screens switched...
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03:34	<alkisg> because now the rdesktop script is a while (true), so it kills X every 1 minute or so if it doesn't connect.
03:35	<Q-FUNK> primary: the general idea is that those FIC clients have a broken BIOS. you need new packages from hardy-proposed to work around that.
03:36	<zamba> ogra: do you remember helping me out the other day? i was the one setting up the kiosk image (and having additional questions).. anyway.. i'm wondering now a bit more about the file structure.. is it correct that the only stuff that's actually used by the clients is the .img file?
03:36	the whole chroot is just for creating the image?
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03:36	<zamba> and not actively being used..?
03:37	<primary> qfunk i just completed the update-steps as per ogra without the "proposed" once I checked it it upgraded
03:37	qfunk do I now I have to go through all of that again, it took 2hrs
03:37	<Q-FUNK> you just need to add the lines for proposed, then update inside the chroot
03:37	<ogra> zamba, right, if you care about diskspace you can tar it up and burn to DVDRW or something
03:38	only .img is actively used
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03:46	<stgraber> ogra: do we have any documentation/presentation for Ubuntu school server (moodle and stuff) ?
03:47	<ogra> stgraber, rich has something i think, but not sure
03:47	* ogra relocates
03:48	<zamba> ogra: i've been using the kiosk mode for a while now.. all of a sudden it stopped working.. it looks like it's loading, but the browser never appears.. it's only the blank ubuntu colored screen
03:49	and how can i set up a new image? if i do ltsp-build-client it complains about /opt/ltsp/i386 already existing.. you mentioned something about building for another arch, but it's the same architecture, only that i want to build a different image
03:49	i miss something called --name or something
03:50	<primary> Qfunk: i did update of sources and followed ogra's doc but still my amd clients do not show the loginscreen
03:51	qfunk: I may have missed the xserver setup stuff , how do I do that
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03:54	<Q-FUNK> primary: inside the chroot, do:
03:55	aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade
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04:05	<Comete> hi
04:09	<Chris_M> Is there a ltsp script to update the nbi.img or is the only way to do it with mkelfImage?
04:09	just wondering...
04:09	<johnny> i've never ran that..
04:11	<Chris_M> johnny: did you ever update the nbi.img?
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04:17	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: updating the kernels should take care of that
04:18	IIRC it's implemented as a kernel reconfiguration hook
04:18	<Chris_M> so lstp-update-kernels outside the chroot should be sufficent? that didn't work :)
04:19	i ran update-initramfs -u inside the chroot, but the nbi was untuched
04:19	<Q-FUNK> dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic
04:20	<Chris_M> aha dpkg-reconfigure! I'll try that, thanks
04:20	hm.. can't seem to find that command with autocomplete
04:21	wait now it does
04:21	<Comete> what happen if use both nbd_swap=Y and use_local_swap=Y in the same [default] section ?
04:28	<zamba> problem with kiosk mode.. firefox doesn't start when booting.. but if i do a ctrl+alt+f1 and then back into x with ctrl+alt+f7, it suddenly appears
04:29	<primary> qfunk now it all the above steps and still same issue persist
04:30	the clients find server, boots through I see spllash screen but its like at some point - it looses it, and then the screen stays blank
04:35	<Chris_M> say is there a command to test lts.conf changes without rebooting the client all the time? takes ages on our hardware
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04:40	<primary> Qfunk I found this https://bugs.launchpad.net/xf86-video-amd/+bug/195846
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05:19	<Q-FUNK> primary: yup. same device, therefore same bug
05:19	and same broken bios
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05:28	<primary> qfunk you had a quick fix when we ran gutsy that worked
05:28	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: i have troubles with a lcd too, what panel statement are they talking about?
05:30	<primary> qfunk i tried using your vs 9 of the driver as well
05:30	same issue
05:30	<Q-FUNK> primary: no it didn't. the Koolu guys have confirmed that they haven't been able to upgrade since Feisty.
05:30	<primary> just connected a crt monitor still have the flashing cursor
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05:31	<Q-FUNK> the 2.9.0 driver has the main advantage that it won't flat-out fail to probe DDC on hardware with buggy BIOS, since it bypasses them
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05:34	<Q-FUNK> however, the X core might have remaining issues with correctly detecting geode hardware
05:35	<gavox> help
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05:39	<gavox> new topic time?
05:41	<Q-FUNK> what for?
05:43	<primary> qfunk I am giving up for now but I have 300lkids screaming that their ubuntu is not up
05:43	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: what could it be if my lcd goes all white, but my crt is working.. (on the nsc hardware)
05:44	Q-FUNK: no wait, one lcd isn all white, and a standard lcd works (second video out)
05:44	Q-FUNK: the main lcd, which is just an lcd, no consumer product, should be set up via the bios..
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05:51	<primary> qfunk will dream up solution tonight
05:52	<Q-FUNK> primary: stay tuned. it appears that one of the updated packages has not been pushed into hardy-proposed yet. I'll talk to the release manager at lunch time.
05:52	Chris_M: panel operation is complicated. some bioses give the wrong info, to begin with
05:52	<alkisg> ogra, I've tried everything to make ldm show Greek text and didn't make it. A sample program that uses el/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo works, but not ldm (Ubuntu hardy). Do you know of anyone that has actually seen localized text in ldm, or may there be a bug? I didn't see a call to bindtextdomain() etc in ldm source code...
05:53	<primary> ah
05:53	i am smiling, waiting for your next step
05:54	qfunk chat to you later
05:55	have a great day , maybe one day you must come to South africa, deliver a talk and then learn Zulu or Xhosa
05:56	<Chris_M> Chris_M: yeah i noticed, strangley the vesa mode of ltsp4.2 worked good on the whole test-setup
05:56	gee that should've been Q-FUNK there ^^
05:57	Q-FUNK: but right now vesa says no screens found :/
05:58	do i have to supply modes if i have an xserver statement in lts.conf?
05:58	<primary> chris where do I change from "auto" to "vesa"
05:59	<Chris_M> in the lts.conf file
05:59	you need to create that in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
05:59	if you don't want to have it built into the img
05:59	and here you can see what you can setup in it: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html
06:00	or see: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html
06:00	nah
06:00	this: /usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz
06:00	:)
06:02	oh that path seems to be out of date
06:02	hang on
06:02	here: /usr/share/doc/ltsp-client-core/examples/lts.conf
06:03	that's an example config
06:04	<zamba> i'm experiencing a problem with the kiosk mode.. whenever i boot the computer i'm only presented with a blank screen.. if i then try and go to console and then back to X again, firefox magically appears.. what could be causing this? i didn't have this problem before..
06:05	<primary> chris: the lts.conf had nothing in it, so i\I copied sample and pasted
06:05	should I tun update again
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06:06	<Chris_M> if you have it in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 it should be enough to reboot the client
06:06	but in the example config you have to move the XSERVER statement up to the default section
06:07	otherwhise it will only apply to the mac between [ and ]
06:09	<primary> like this: [default]
06:09	XSERVER = vesa
06:09	LTSP_VERSION=5.0.39
06:09	LDM_DIRECTX = true
06:10	<Chris_M> yep that should work
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06:10	<Chris_M> ltsp_version shouldn't be need though, i guess?
06:11	<primary> hmm did not work
06:11	:(
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06:15	<Chris_M> how does the complete lts.conf file look like?
06:15	only the 4 lines above?
06:16	<primary> that is it
06:18	<Chris_M> maybe you have to supply a mode line lik: X_MODE_0=1024x768 too
06:19	and: X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
06:19	<primary> ok I added the sample lts.conf stuff as per url above
06:22	<Chris_M> and moved the xserver statement up into the default section?
06:22	it seems like it needs that x_color_depth
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06:23	<primary> ok added lines
06:23	updating image
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06:24	<Big-K_> hi
06:25	<Chris_M> reboot should do it primary :)
06:26	<ogra> stgraber, geez !! compcache just runs, took me about 2min to set up
06:26	<primary> tx Chris
06:26	<ogra> (including compilation)
06:26	<primary> see you on the flip side
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06:27	<stgraber> ogra: rocks
06:27	ogra: and what about the kernel team ? do they plan to include it ?
06:29	<ogra> stgraber, will be in the first intrepid lum package
06:29	<stgraber> yeah
06:29	<ogra> ogra@osiris:~/Devel/compcache-devel$ swapon -s
06:29	Filename Type Size Used Priority
06:29	/dev/ramzswap0 partition 776688 0 100
06:29	:)
06:29	<stgraber> how does it work ? you just have to load the module specifying the amount of space wanted and that's it ?
06:29	<ogra> i didnt expect it to be that easy
06:30	its three modules actually
06:30	two for the lzma stuff
06:30	and indeed it puts extra load on the CPU
06:30	<stgraber> shouldn't be a problem with the cmpc right ?
06:30	<ogra> and i have no idea yet how it affects suspend/hibernate ... might take some extra work
06:31	well, the cmpc suffers from missing L2 but has a lot of power though
06:31	i havent tested it on the cmpc yet
06:31	and it will need proper udev itegration, currently it just ships a script that calls the right insmod commands
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06:34	<primary> chris: it did not work
06:34	my head is spinning so now I am giving up for the day
06:35	HP terminals is working well though
06:35	my amd lx800's are the problem
06:36	<Chris_M> yeah I'm fighting with it too, too bad it didn't work :(
06:37	<primary> I will be back tomorrow
06:37	<Chris_M> ok bye
06:37	<primary> ogra: a solution on this will help us all
06:38	<ogra> primary, Q-Funk is your man
06:38	he'S doing the amd/geode fixes
06:38	<primary> qfunk might have answer after lunch he said
06:38	later dudes and thank you Chris, Qfunk and Ogra
06:38	<ogra> yeah, i saw him sitting at bryce's (xorg maintainer) table
06:39	<Big-K_> hey guys
06:39	does ltsp work well on ubuntu hardy or should I saty with gutsy?
06:39	<primary> running of to getting 40 HP terminals from storeroom as temp solution
06:39	<Big-K_> *stay
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06:40	<primary> BigK works great , love the speed, etc
06:40	Ogra did well here
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06:40	<ogra> :)
06:41	<Big-K_> ok thx
06:41	<jon_> Hi
06:42	I've set up my LTSP so I can watch movies (yes movies) on a client that I've recorded off TV using my server
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06:43	<jon_> Sometimes it's flawless, othertimes it is really jerky
06:44	I find it uses 5-6Mb/s regardless of jerkiness
06:44	Does anyone have any idea where to start looking for the seemingly random quallity issue I get?
06:44	I use sidux, with LTSP 5
06:48	<zamba> ogra: can you help me with my problem? when i boot up the thin client in kiosk mode, i only get the blank, ubuntu screen, but no firefox.. if i then try to go into console and back into X again, firefox pops up.. any idea what could be causing this?
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07:09	<alkisg> stgraber, could you comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMEnhancements for the rdesktop menu item?
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07:09	<alkisg> ogra, could you comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMEnhancements for the rdesktop menu item? It's my first page, so there may be many errors...
07:11	<LL01> alkisg, you can open rdesktop and logon inot ldm? then you are with lstp session?
07:12	<alkisg> LL01, I didn't understand, you mean to run rdesktop after logon?
07:12	<LL01> nope
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07:13	<LL01> use rdesktop to use ltsp
07:13	<alkisg> LL01, no, I want to be able to SELECT either rdesktop or ltsp.
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07:13	<LL01> oh ok
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07:14	<alkisg> mhterres, are you Greek? :)
07:17	<mhterres> hi
07:17	no I'm brazilian
07:17	<alkisg> mhterres, hi, OK, just that your nick name means "mothers" in Greek! :)
07:18	<mhterres> ohhh :-D
07:18	<alkisg> lol
07:18	<mhterres> I didn't know that
07:18	mhterres is Marcelo Hartmann Terres
07:18	:-D
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07:18	<alkisg> hehe! That was fun! :D
07:19	<mhterres> yep :-)
07:19	so mhterre is mother ?
07:19	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: the problem with panel operation is that 1) we cannot make it the default and 2) it depends too muhc on what the bios tells the driver.
07:20	<alkisg> mhterres: It's actually mhtera (pronounced meetera) but greek write it with an "h" when they write with english letters!!!
07:21	<mhterres> hmmmm
07:21	cool :-)
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07:21	<alkisg> well, not so bad. I've heard stories about how the at sign (@) is called in other languages, and it was very bad!
07:22	<mhterres> hehehehe
07:22	<alkisg> In Greece we call it "duck"
07:22	<mhterres> heheheeh
07:22	and are you greek ?
07:23	<alkisg> Yes. Well, time to go, nice meeting you!
07:23	ogra has joined #ltsp
07:23	<mhterres> see you
07:23	<alkisg> ogra: (last try)! could you comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMEnhancements for the rdesktop menu item? It's my first page, so there may be many errors...
07:25	<stgraber> alkisg: looking
07:25	<alkisg> stgraber: ok, I'll stand by! :)
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07:25	<stgraber> whouldn't have it been better on the LTSP wiki ? (IIRC they have a wiki)
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07:26	<alkisg> stgraber, I have no idea! I'm a newbie on Linux/LTSP etc, I just did what ogra told me!
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07:27	<alkisg> stgraber, I'm actively using Linux only for the last year (in classroom) and now I'm a big fan, but not as experienced as in Windows (15 years of programming)!
07:28	stgraber, I also want to try to run italc locally (with an ldm script), do you think this would increase the client requirements much?
07:28	<stgraber> looks good
07:28	alkisg: ah, you want to try my italc 1.0.8 (in-chroot installation) ?
07:28	<alkisg> I have it installed!
07:28	oh, in chroot...
07:29	<stgraber> alkisg: italc takes ~20MB of RAM for a 1024x768 display for the VNC part
07:29	<Chris_M> q-funk: and what are my options now? it looks like i only need to give x the correct X_HORSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH settings
07:29	<alkisg> I'll give it a shot when I'm finished with ldm localization and rdesktop menu
07:30	<stgraber> alkisg: with 1.0.8, you just need to install it in the chroot and set START_ITALC=True in lts.conf
07:30	alkisg: oh, and of course transfer the public keys
07:30	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: or not.. i now have settings according to the spec of the display, but it still decides to go all white
07:30	<alkisg> stgraber, Huh? You put START_ITALC support in the thin client scripts?
07:31	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: more probably just the xorg.conf options for enabling panel and disabling CRT
07:31	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: may i ask how? :)
07:32	<stgraber> alkisg: I have a ldm script starting italc on the thin client when this option is set to True and telling the desktop not to start italc (we don't need it twice)
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07:33	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: if you're still online in a couple of hours, someone who knows more about using the driver with a panel will be on #xorg-devel.
07:33	<alkisg> stgraber: very good, I'll try it soon. But I had trouble on the school server, demo mode was not working with 1.0.8, while it is working fine on my laptop (=server)...
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07:34	<alkisg> stgraber: I tried with and without the avahi script, no joy!
07:34	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: ok, thanks
07:34	<stgraber> alkisg: with the package from our PPA ?
07:34	<alkisg> stgraber, yes
07:34	<stgraber> weird I have a mixed setup here working fine : thin clients, fat clients, workstations and windows stations
07:34	<alkisg> I got the same on both servers (class and my laptop)
07:34	<stgraber> were the keys in sync ?
07:35	<alkisg> stgraber, what can I do to debug this? The clients stuck with a message about connecting to 5800 something port
07:35	<stgraber> can you give me the exact version number ?
07:35	<alkisg> I think so (about the keys), everything else (except demo mode) was working perfectly
07:36	<stgraber> dpkg -l \| grep italc-client
07:36	<alkisg> ica1:1.0.8-0ubuntu1~ppa5
07:37	<stgraber> hmm, it's the same I'm using
07:37	you are running Hardy everywhere right ?
07:38	<alkisg> I can give you ssh access if you have the time to check it out...
07:38	Yeap
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08:20	<zamba> can someone help me figure out why i'm not able to get firefox up in kiosk mode, unless i first cycle through console once.. ?
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08:58	<cjsstables> hello all. I'm running ubuntu 8.04 server with ltsp install. I cannot get a client to boot from the lan. Client is getting dhcp address but cannot load files. can anyone help?
08:59	<Gadi> cjsstables: error message?
09:01	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: seems like the driver is just turning the panel of
09:02	Q-FUNK: if we bridge that signal the display shows everything alright
09:02	Q-FUNK: any clues? :)
09:02	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: right, that probably has to do with xorg.conf options or the wrong BIOS options
09:03	the README has info on what settings you cna use for configuring the panel
09:04	<Chris_M> you mean the one of the custom driver?
09:04	because i'm using the one out of the box with ltsp5/hardy
09:05	<Q-FUNK> yup
09:07	<Gadi> Chris_M: Option "NoPanel" "false"
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09:08	<Chris_M> Gadi: does that work with all drivers?
09:08	<Gadi> works with the LX driver
09:08	which is what i aassume ur talking about
09:08	:)
09:08	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK: i'm trying the flatpanel option right now, hope it's not only in the custom driver
09:09	Gadi: no unfortuanetly i'm talking about the nsc driver
09:09	<Gadi> ah
09:09	<Chris_M> but thanks anyway
09:09	<Gadi> yeah, that was FlatPanel
09:09	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: ah, for nsc, that's another story
09:10	<Chris_M> i'll be dammed, it works
09:10	<cjsstables> ok error message is the following. PXE-T01: File Not Found and PXE-E3B: TFTP Error - File Not Found
09:10	<Chris_M> Q-FUNK, Gadi: it's in the one that comes with hardy too :) thanks a lot!
09:11	<cjsstables> <gadi> Did you get that error message?
09:11	<Gadi> cjsstables: your tftp server is messed up OR your "filename" is incorrect in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
09:11	cjsstables: which distro?
09:12	<cjsstables> <Gadi> what should the file name be in the dhcp.conf
09:12	<Gadi> what does yours say?
09:13	<Q-FUNK> Chris_M: :)
09:13	I'll note that one
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09:15	<cjsstables> <Gadi> shows this: filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"; else filename /ltsp/i386/nbi.img
09:15	<Gadi> cjsstables: grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
09:17	<cjsstables> <Gadi> tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
09:17	<Gadi> ls /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
09:18	<cjsstables> <Gadi> no such file exists
09:18	<Gadi> there ya go
09:18	did you do: sudo ltsp-build-client?
09:19	to create a chroot and such?
09:19	<cjsstables> I though it did that during the install process
09:20	I did an install of the server and select F4 then select ltsp server
09:20	It said it was building the client during the install
09:22	<Gadi> so where do I go from here? run ltsp-build-client
09:22	<Gadi> hmm
09:22	ls /opt/ltsp/i386
09:23	<cjsstables> no such files or directory
09:23	<Gadi> guess it never built the client
09:23	sudo ltsp-build-client
09:24	<ogra_> ls /opt/ltsp/amd64
09:24	<Gadi> if you are on a 64-bit arch, add: --arch=i386
09:24	<cjsstables> yes I am
09:24	<Gadi> ah, there ya go
09:24	<Blinny> This blows.
09:24	<Gadi> ogra_ will take it from here and show you to your seat
09:24	:)
09:24	* ogra_ is in a meeting, just lurking
09:24	<Gadi> geesh
09:25	well, cjsstables, my advice is: sudo ltsp-build-client --arch=i386
09:25	<cjsstables> <Gadi> ok I get alisting of directories
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09:26	<warren> Q-FUNK: FedEx is telling us EE is Estonia's country code
09:26	<cjsstables> <Gadi> Ok ity is building right now
09:26	<warren> Q-FUNK: does that sound correct?
09:28	<cjsstables> <Gadi> so once that runs I should be able to attempt a netboot with a client right?
09:28	<ogra_> cjsstables, wait if its done (get a coffee, it takes a while)
09:28	<Gadi> cjsstables: yup
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09:29	<cjsstables> <Gadi> I see that. Now since I did that will I be able to boot either amd64 or i386 clients or will all clientsboot as i386
09:30	<ogra_> i386
09:30	<cjsstables> ok.. thats no problem.. I just want to get it running fornow
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09:34	<Blinny> This is definitely a dumb question: What is significantly different in LTSP4.2 and LTSP5 (from K12LTSP to Ubuntu 8.04), other than SSH tunneling, that would make my clients' refresh rates so sluggish?
09:34	Is there some gnome eye candy I can disable?
09:34	<zamba> i try again: can someone help me figure out why i'm not able to get firefox up in kiosk mode, unless i first cycle through console once.. ?
09:34	<Blinny> Is it compiz deciding what to draw?
09:35	<alkisg> ogra, do you have any time to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMEnhancements? Should I go ahead and code it?
09:41	!seen vagrantc
09:41	<ltspbot`> alkisg: vagrantc was last seen in #ltsp 6 hours, 50 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: * vagrantc sleeps
09:41	<Q-FUNK> warren: yup
09:43	<warren> Q-FUNK: oh good news, we figured out why it wasn't booting on your coreboot version
09:43	Q-FUNK: mkelfimage is stupid
09:44	<Q-FUNK> oh?
09:44	what was the fix?
09:44	<warren> Q-FUNK: --ramdisk-base=somehighnumber makes it work, but mkelfimage really could use whatever grub uses to load the initrd in a place that wont blow up.
09:44	(autodetect)
09:50	<Q-FUNK> come again?
09:50	you need to define a non-standard ramdisk base?
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09:53	<warren> Q-FUNK: there is no standard
09:54	Q-FUNK: the vmlinuz and initrd are copied into ram during the tftp download, then vmlinuz decompresses and executes. mkelfimage is hard coded to put the initrd at 8MB. The kernel can sometimes (depending on how it is configured) expand to overwrite the initrd portion.
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10:02	<Q-FUNK> argh
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10:06	<ogra_> who uses 8M kernels anyway :)
10:06	* ogra_ hides
10:06	<Blinny> What's up with 8.04 not killing processes on user logout?
10:07	<warren> are you sure they are logging out?
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10:08	<Blinny> Well, they're back to LDM
10:08	And they're clicking the red power button, then on the popup clicking 'Logout'
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10:17	<cjsstables> <Gadi> Going to reboot now and will be back ok
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10:18	<Q-FUNK> warren: if you have any idea as to what could be a more usable offset to use with mkelfimage, please let me know
10:19	warren: we ciuld put it as a default in LTSP, if everyone agrees
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10:21	<warren> Q-FUNK: our grub/syslinux guy is trying to fix mkelfimage to autodetect because hardcoding rambase is huge fail
10:24	<Q-FUNK> warren: sounds like a good idea. please have him submit his patches to the coreboot mailing list.
10:24	<warren> Q-FUNK: if he succeeds, he's having trouble
10:26	<Chris_M> cya guys
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10:27	<Q-FUNK> ok, the patched X core is in hardy-proposed
10:27	now, on to the -geode driver
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10:31	<warren> Q-FUNK: what patch for x core?
10:31	<LL01> he
10:32	any pages about ltsp history?
10:32	like when the project started?
10:32	<Q-FUNK> warren: PCI ID matching for LX
10:33	<warren> Q-FUNK: oh, the change I added
10:33	<Q-FUNK> warren: it's already in the 1.5 tree
10:33	<warren> how was it working in hardy without that?
10:33	<jammcq> LL01: http://ltsp.sourceforge.net/longstory.php
10:33	<LL01> thx jammcq
10:33	<Q-FUNK> it required putting the name of the driver in xorg.conf
10:34	<mraudsepp> I got the PCI ID backported to upstream server-1.4-branch as well.
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10:36	<Blinny> Will a .xprofile in a user's home dir get run on a user logging in through LDM in 8.04 ?
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10:38	<cjsstables> <Gadi> Thanks so much. I was able to boot now and actually am logged in a a user.
10:39	I will do more reading on setting stuff up. I haven't bee able to get cd music playing
10:39	so I will start reading about that and fat client stuff
10:39	thanks again
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10:42	<LL01> fat client is cool too :)
10:44	which pages are you reading? the ubuntuLTSP ones?
10:47	<Big-K_> can one disable the ssh tunneling of the display manager?
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11:36	<alkisg> Has anyone managed to see localized text in ldm?
11:36	<johnny> sounds like they have, people who used to ask questions about it, dont' seem to be anymore
11:37	<alkisg> Well, I've been working on it for the last 10 hours, no cigar! :(
11:38	<johnny> translations have been merged in recent past
11:38	so i assume they must be able to see the fruit of their labors
11:38	i assume you're using hardy?
11:39	or some distro with a quite new ldm
11:39	<alkisg> I think you're right, but I can't see ANY of the translations, not mine, not from others...
11:39	Yes, hardy
11:39	I saw the code, it supposedly calls _() //gettext
11:39	<johnny> most of the people who have asked, seem to be using debian
11:39	<alkisg> But even though a test program that I've ran displays greek text with gettext OK, ldm doesn't.
11:40	That's what I'm guessing, there must be a problem with the locale handling in Ubuntu (in the thin client)
11:41	Do you know of anyone that has done it? Maybe I should ask one of the language translators?
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11:44	<alkisg> vagrantc, I've been trying for 10 hours to get localized ldm text in Ubuntu hardy without succeeding! Can you help?
11:45	<johnny> i'm all english here , haven't looked into it
11:45	<alkisg> johnny: thanks anyway, I'll try to talk to someone with a debian distro.
11:46	<vagrantc> alkisg: this is one place where ubuntu really differs from debian
11:47	<alkisg> vagrantc: I've managed to put an example .c file that uses the greek ldm.mo and works just fine, but ldm itself refuses to change language! :(
11:47	<vagrantc> i'm not sure the working localization patches even made it into hardy
11:47	<alkisg> I've compiled the new source and tried scp 'ing it to the client and restarting X, but still it didn't work
11:48	<vagrantc> "the new source" ?
11:48	<alkisg> the one you told me yesterday, I think it's yours?
11:48	ldm-trunk
11:48	<vagrantc> that's upstream, yeah.
11:49	not mine :)
11:49	<alkisg> When I try it in the server I get a "segmentation fault", on the client it just doesn't display greek
11:50	But I'm not sure if I copy it on the client correctly, because ldm is running, I scp ldmgtkgreeter and restart X. Should I be seeing the new version, or Linux somehow caches the last one?
11:50	<vagrantc> i would definitely restart your thin client ...
11:50	i also would actually build a new package, although a lot has changed, so the packaging may require updating.
11:50	<alkisg> I'd have to ltsp-update-image, and it's troublesome for testing...
11:51	<vagrantc> sure is.
11:51	* vagrantc prefers plain NFS still.
11:51	<alkisg> ME TOO!!!
11:51	I'll try it anyway. What about the LANG variable? It's not set correctly on the client, and I have to update it everytime the client boots
11:52	Is this LANG=el_GR.UTF-8 in lts.conf?
11:52	<vagrantc> alkisg: if you give me the updated el.po, i can test it on debian and commit it upstream
11:53	<alkisg> Sure, can I send you an email?
11:53	<vagrantc> ltsp-developer@lists.sourceforge.net
11:53	<alkisg> I'm lost with all the sites and new ways of developing (new for me)
11:53	OK, thanks
11:53	<vagrantc> actually, go ahead and CC vagrant@freegeek.org
11:53	<alkisg> Oh, wait a minute, I think in the "new source" there are some more messages...
11:54	<vagrantc> yeah, be sure to get the newest messages.
11:54	<alkisg> OK, I'll send it in less than an hour. Thanks!
11:54	<vagrantc> then, it'll at least make it's way to ubuntu someday :)
11:55	<warren> http://git.etherboot.org/?p=wraplinux.git;a=blob_plain;f=reloc/reloc_linux.c;hb=HEAD it appears that this does something similar to what mkelfimage needs to do
11:55	<vagrantc> warren: debian's got linux 2.6.25 now ... is that the one you were experiencing problems with etherboot and/or other issues?
11:56	<warren> vagrantc: it turns out to be a kernel config option plus a little chance
11:56	<vagrantc> ah.
11:56	<warren> mkelfimage is hardcoded to put the initrd at 8MB
11:56	<vagrantc> i'd like to see if i can reproduce on debian
11:56	<warren> the kernel could expand beyond 8MB and overwrite part of the initrd
11:57	<vagrantc> oh, yeah... that'd be bad news :)
11:57	<warren> so mkelfimage needs to be smarter, to probe the memory and find the highest safe location to put the initrd
11:58	<alkisg> vagrantc, Wow! The hardy ldm source has ~74 lines in .po files, but ldm-trunk has ~185!!! I'll need more time... :)
11:59	<vagrantc> alkisg: yes, once we got the code actually working, i think more of the code got translateable
11:59	yeah, the i18n/l10n patches were added on april 1st ...
12:00	i think the ubuntu version was from sometime in february
12:00	<alkisg> I've tried debian a LONG time ago, does it have an easy (maybe graphical) installer now? Cause I only selected Ubuntu to be easier for the other teachers that would want to switch to linux...
12:01	<warren> ldm-trunk needs a bit of cleanup
12:01	<vagrantc> there is a graphical installer now ... fairly easy to use ...
12:01	<warren> many of the strings are too similar
12:01	<vagrantc> warren: yes, that's what klausade mentioned when he did the nb translation
12:02	warren: not only that, but we give the user a different error message than what ends up in the log file.
12:02	<alkisg> I'll consider switching again, what I miss the most in Ubuntu is that it doesn't come in a multi-dvd version that has all the languages, so students with dial up access have to download Greek support from the Internet...
12:02	With sarge I downloaded 2 DVDs and I had local language support without downloading anything... :)
12:05	<shawnp0wers> Just a notice: I do a shoutout to LTSP in my recent Linux Journal video: http://www.linuxjournal.com/video/buntu-family-theater
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12:07	<alkisg> shawnp0wers, I'm watching it now...
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13:03	<Blinny> Is there a nice-n-easy way to convert a running i386 'boontu system to amd64?
13:06	<sutula> Blinny: In place, or on another box?
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13:25	<Blinny> sutula: In place, ideally.
13:25	But I do have an identical server laying around.
13:26	<vagrantc> just network boot off of itself.
13:27	<sutula> Blinny: Well, the binaries are different, so it would be difficult to do in place...perhaps in a chroot...but then, you said "easy"
13:27	vagrantc: I'm assuming he doesn't want to trash his existing config or user data
13:27	* vagrantc wasn't actually being practical
13:29	<sutula> Blinny: So not easy, but theoretically, you can get a list of installed packages and install those on the new system (except use amd64 versions), then copy over the /etc directory tree, any user data (/home, etc.), and have a cloned system
13:29	<vagrantc> i doubt you'll have an easy time installing amd64 binaries running an i386 kernel
13:29	<Blinny> Yeah I'd like to keep my user stuff. And /var stuff.
13:29	Poop.
13:30	<vagrantc> but this is coming from someone who's never really used amd64 :)
13:30	so maybe there's hope
13:30	<sutula> Blinny: There are simple commands to do the "installed package" stuff, but then it's a hand operation to copy the rest, and you never know what you've missed
13:30	<johnny> it's easier to just do a new install and copy the data
13:31	<Blinny> I was hoping to avoid that; I've got a lot of services outside of LTSP.
13:31	<johnny> you'll have more hassle if you don't
13:31	i can guarantee it
13:31	it's not a supported operation on any distro
13:31	<Blinny> OK.
13:31	<johnny> except perhaps gentoo..
13:31	<Blinny> Hrm.
13:31	<johnny> but even then.. easier to just start over
13:32	<Blinny> I wonder if I can do the install and then swap the hard drives.. Both servers have (almost) identical drives.
13:32	2 in raid1 and 5 in raid5
13:32	<sutula> Blinny: You can start with johnny's suggestion, then look at the differences in installed packages, then do /etc pretty easily. That should get you the services.
13:32	<Blinny> the raid1s are just different sizes. 36gb vs 146gb
13:32	sutula: As long as I exclude things like /etc/alternatives
13:32	(does ubuntu use that?)
13:33	Yah I see it does.
13:33	<sutula> Blinny: Why would you want to exclude that? It's just config symlinks.
13:34	<Blinny> Johnny is saying a new install and copy the data - I read that you said copy i386 /etc over amd64 /etc
13:34	hence, destroying the symlinks.
13:34	<johnny> that won't destroy the symlinks
13:34	<Blinny> even w/ /lib64 and /lib32 addresses?
13:35	<johnny> iirc.. there are only a few of those
13:35	<Blinny> Yah I guess you're right. - I'm looking now.
13:35	<johnny> if your'e running i386.. and movng to amd64, you won't notice
13:35	since /lib will be symlinked to lib64
13:35	<Blinny> OK.
13:35	<johnny> moving backwards you probably would :)
13:35	<sutula> Blinny: You're asking the right questions. I think our suggestions will get you to 95% of the solution, and you'll have to deal with a few "issues" by hand.
13:35	<Blinny> Hey thanks guys. I'll keep you appraised of how it goes. I'm gonna try to sort out some of the issues we're seeing before trying this.
13:36	<johnny> why switch to amd64?
13:36	will you really see a benefit?
13:36	<vagrantc> pwd
13:36	<Blinny> johnny: 8GB RAM and seeing high load averages.
13:36	<johnny> aha.. the 8GB is the only good reason
13:36	<Blinny> if my numbers are correct, the PAE -server kernel is causing a roughly 200% increase in load avg
13:37	and my clients are sluggish as hell
13:37	Gotta run to troubleshoot local printing fix. (thanks ogra who isn't here) Thanks again johnny/vagrantc/sutula.
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13:55	<vagrantc> yay! LDM in greek.
13:55	* vagrantc resists the temptation to use a cliche adage
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14:53	<alkisg> vagrantc, I just got in again! Does it work? (ldm in Greek?)
14:54	<vagrantc> alkisg: haven't quite tried it yet... will do shortly
14:54	alkisg: i'm hopeful, though :)
14:54	<alkisg> vagrantc, if you get it working tell me the steps! gen-locales, whatever...
14:56	<vagrantc> well, first, i'll be re-building the package :)
14:56	<alkisg> Could you PLEASE send me a compiled version of ldm, ldmgtkgreeter etc? Because I think I have setup something wrong in my libraries, I get a segmentation fault...
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14:56	<alkisg> x86
14:56	<vagrantc> then uncomment el_GR.UTF-8 in /etc/locale.gen , and then running locale-gen ...
14:57	alkisg: i can build a package, but no idea if it will run on an ubuntu system
14:57	<alkisg> ok, and ltsp-update-image?
14:57	<vagrantc> well, i won't need to run ltsp-update-image, because i just use NFS :)
14:57	<alkisg> well, I'd like to try, I've been trying for MANY hours!
14:58	<vagrantc> although, i am testing the ltsp-update-image stuff on debian right now ...
14:58	<alkisg> I have to play by the book because I'll need to help other teachers afterwards...
14:58	<vagrantc> alkisg: thing is, is all the local-gen stuff for ubuntu is totally different.
14:58	alkisg: though i think "locale -a" should report available locales
14:58	<alkisg> I'm guessing that's why the debian build might actually work! ;)
14:59	<vagrantc> alkisg: and "chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 locale -a" should report available locales in your chroot
14:59	<alkisg> vagrantc, inside the thin client (on the console), I tried a program that uses gettext, everything was ok
14:59	I even told it to use the texts from the ldm package (the ldm.mo I've made), even that was ok.
15:00	Something is wrong with the compiled version I have... Or else gtk "substitutes" gettext() with something, I don't know what, and it doesn't work in the thin client... :(
15:00	<vagrantc> is el_GR.UTF-8 reported when you run locale -a in the chroot?
15:01	<alkisg> Yes
15:01	<vagrantc> alkisg: try setting LANG=el_GR.UTF-8 in lts.conf
15:01	<alkisg> I did that too!
15:02	<vagrantc> ok
15:02	<alkisg> Before that, there was an error that "the system locale was not supported", but even after that still english text
15:02	The best I got was NO text at all (no "username" label) :(
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15:06	<alkisg> vagrantc, see this code: http://pastebin.com/m31c7d995
15:06	it executes correctly on the thin client without changing anything on the environment etc.
15:07	So locale is correctly working and gettext() supports it. I don't know why ldm refuses to work...
15:08	<vagrantc> alkisg: how did you install ldm ?
15:08	<alkisg> Can I send you MY version? To see if it supports locales?
15:08	Just installed hardy, nothing else
15:09	Ubuntu hardy, ltsp-build-image etc
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15:09	<alkisg> version: 5.0.40~bzr20080212-0ubuntu4
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15:11	<alkisg> I downloaded the code from deb src ubuntu .... and I saw that it uses gettext macros, _()... I really don't know what is wrong with it! :(
15:11	<johnny> try gettting it from bzr
15:11	<vagrantc> well, ldm's gettext support was broken and completely disabled until april
15:11	<johnny> and making your own..
15:11	<vagrantc> that looks like it was from february
15:11	<alkisg> I got it from brz, I compile it and I get segmentation fault
15:12	<vagrantc> alkisg: how did you install it after compiling it from bzr?
15:12	<alkisg> Maybe I got some older library
15:12	I just tried to run it on the server! :D
15:12	<vagrantc> right.
15:12	<alkisg> Then I tried to copy ldm to the thin client! :D
15:12	I'm a newbie! Don't hit me! :)
15:13	<vagrantc> so, it's likely a lot has changed, and you'll need to update the package to reflect those changes, and make a real package out of it.
15:13	<alkisg> Any hints to save me hours of surfing?
15:13	<vagrantc> we've moved the locations of a number of things around, and i wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't finding something it needed.
15:14	alkisg: talk to ogra, who's the ubuntu developer working on ltsp
15:14	<alkisg> Or, if you're going to make a new package with greek in it, I can wait!
15:14	I tried, but I think he's on a meeting or something these days
15:15	<vagrantc> like i said, i'll make a package with greek, but it will be for debian, and that will likely not work on ubuntu, due to the differences in locale handling
15:15	i'm sure in the near future, ogra will make an ubuntu package for the next release of ubuntu
15:15	<alkisg> I see... I'm out of options! I'll try again to talk to ogra
15:15	Well, thank you VERY much.
15:16	I'll move on to try to implement an rdesktop button!
15:16	<vagrantc> yeah, i'll test it today on debian, and if it seems to work, i'll commit it upstream.
15:16	<alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMEnhancements
15:16	I wrote this after speaking with ogra...
15:18	<vagrantc> itais: should be uploading a new ltsp with complete NBD+squashfs+aufs support in the next day or two
15:19	<laga> yay for aufs.
15:20	<vagrantc> laga: you heard anything regarding ubuntu switching to aufs ?
15:21	if ubuntu's switching, i'll just switch the scripts upstream ... otherwise i'll patch debian's
15:21	<laga> vagrantc: re ltsp: dunno if ogra is planning too, but my patches for mythbuntu-diskless already use aufs.
15:22	so even if ogra doesn't want aufs, it's just a matter of enablding it in the config file
15:22	<vagrantc> sure
15:22	<laga> the ubuntu guys will be evaluatiing aufs for their live disk and i assume ogra will follow that decision
15:22	<vagrantc> i'd just be more comfortable making upstream changes if i knew ubuntu was committing to move to it
15:22	since i think ubuntu and debian are the only distros that use that code
15:23	<warren> what happened to unionfs?
15:23	<laga> nothing? aufs just works better for me.. and many others
15:24	<johnny> warren, the problem is that unionfs is only available as a kernel patch, and that will never be integrated here
15:24	<vagrantc> warren: i don't know what happened exactly, but basically it's been unreliable and unstable recently...
15:24	<johnny> aufs is available as external module
15:24	<laga> huh
15:24	:)
15:25	<vagrantc> warren: debian's unionfs maintainer has basically given up on it, from what i can tell
15:25	<laga> i didnt know unionfs can't be build out of tree. in fact, ubuntu does that
15:25	unionfs in ubuntu is in the linux-ubuntu-modules package.
15:25	<vagrantc> johnny: unionfs is available as an external module as well
15:25	<johnny> not anymore
15:25	they stopped doing that
15:25	<vagrantc> oh
15:25	<johnny> they were hoping for 2.6.25 inclusion
15:26	<laga> aufs also needs some kernel patches to be really useful (eg for use with NFS branches), but these are applied to the ubuntu kernel.
15:26	ubuntu uses unionfs 1.x anyways
15:26	<johnny> but al viro and others won't accept it
15:26	they want union mounts
15:26	anything else won't be merged it seems
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15:40	<pere> vagrantc: around? is the ltsp build script removing init.d scripts or renaming S* to K? Saw some upgrade problem (reinserting S symlinks) that made me suspect LTSP just remove them.
15:41	<vagrantc> pere: hmmm....
15:41	pere: i'm pretty sure it uses update-rc.d
15:41	pere: although older versions maybe didn't
15:41	<pere> and doing what, exactly?
15:41	* vagrantc looks
15:42	<vagrantc> chroot $ROOT update-rc.d -f $name remove 2>&1 >/dev/null
15:42	chroot $ROOT update-rc.d $name stop $seq_number $suffix . 2>&1 >/dev/null
15:42	i've never really liked any of that code ...
15:43	<pere> right. leaving behind one K* symlink should keep upgrades from reinserting thesymlinks.
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15:43	<pere> hm, must look elsewhere for the new scripts.
15:44	<vagrantc> it doesn't have any provision to prevent new packages from inserting links or anything like that
15:44	it's all install time
15:44	<pere> vagrantc: which is ok when converting it to a diskless workstation environment. :)
15:44	<warren> vagrantc: are you going to push that ltsp_chroot thing? it was pretty safe right?
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15:47	<polytan> hi
15:47	I do netboot+nfs+dhcp on gentoo for my diskless machines
15:47	what can bring me ltsp ?
15:49	<laga> pere, vagrantc: i'm interested in a proper way to remove those init symlinks in ltsp. i'll probably add it for the mythbuntu-diskless merge
15:49	<pere> laga: the current way is proper enough.
15:50	renaming all SXXfoo to KYYfoo where YY = 100 - XX, would also be a good way to do it.
15:50	but only when using sysv-rc.
15:51	<laga> pere: ah, you're probably talking about the whitelist. i want to add a black list.
15:52	<X0d_of_N0d> Hey, ltspfsd doens't mount drive names that contain spaces, I've got a fix for it... where would I send the patch?
15:52	<pere> laga: I am talking about the safe way to disable init.d scripts.
15:55	<laga> pere: so am i. the current way is good enough. i got confused and apologize for that :)
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15:56	<pere> laga: the current way is the best we can do with the API provided by update-rc.d. The API should be improved, but that is a topic for #pkg-sysvinit on irc.debian.org, and not solvable here. :)
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15:58	* X0d_of_N0d looks around
15:59	<vagrantc> X0d_of_N0d: either through the distro you're using or ltsp-developer@lists.sourceforge.net
16:00	alkisg: happy to report your greek translation appears to work, committing upstream :)
16:00	<X0d_of_N0d> done
16:00	ok, cool...
16:00	I guess we'll see what happens with that
16:01	<alkisg> vagrantc: thanks!
16:02	vagrantc: (I installed poedit to be sure! :))
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16:11	<vagrantc> alkisg: thanks for the translation :)
16:12	<alkisg> vagrantc, thank YOU for your work, all it cost me was 30', and I've been using it for a year! :)
16:13	a quick question, if you remember without searching it: how do I give a host name to an ltsp client? HOST_NAME in lts.conf doesn't work for me...
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16:21	<johnny> polytan, i have ltsp5 for gentoo alomst complete
16:21	your situation, all processes run on the client?
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16:57	<jammcq> :q
16:57	oops
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17:01	<dyn> heh
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17:05	<lns> haha
17:09	<dyn> hey lns
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17:11	<lns> what's up dyn
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17:15	<dyn> not much.. looking at the dopewars code you?
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17:28	<lns> dyn, dopewars ? Wasn't that an old BBS door game?
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17:29	<lns> Is there any "definitive" documentation on upgrading Ubuntu Gutsy to Hardy, and what you have to do regarding LTSP ?
17:30	<dyn> I'm curious as to that answer myself
17:30	<lns> or is it just basically re-building the client chroot & image after the base OS install ?
17:30	<dyn> lns are you using gutsy LTSP (5)?
17:30	<lns> dyn, yes
17:30	<dyn> how many clients?
17:30	<lns> on ~6 servers
17:30	<dyn> ah cool
17:30	<lns> about 35-40 each server
17:30	(clients)
17:30	<dyn> nice
17:31	we're about to replace our current home built debian-unstable vserver unupgradable thin client setup with Ubuntu LTSP
17:32	<lns> right on
17:32	are you going to attempt a cross-distro upgrade or start over?
17:32	<dyn> Hardy had little issues here and there that we can't have happen in production so.. we're setting it up with Gutsy now
17:32	<lns> dyn, like what?
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17:33	* lns is having lots of issues with gutsy that were fixed in hardy, so he can't wait to upgrade
17:33	<johnny_> gutsy has issues like broken autologin :)
17:33	<dyn> start over because we're swtiching to from dual-dualcore 2ghz to quadcore 3ghz w/ 16gb of ram :)
17:33	<lns> johnny, and the whole openoffice/firefox mem stuff .. ugh =p
17:33	dyn, wow =) at least twice as powerful as my biggest server =) nice
17:33	<dyn> yeah.. the only real problem becides an already known bug with gnome keyring (thats about to be fixed) was the "system" dbus-daemon crashing
17:33	<lns> ack
17:34	is that happening to a lot of people?
17:34	<dyn> we've got 25 people using 1 server quite heavly
17:34	not that I could find... which is weird
17:35	I don't think its something with our setup.. but the only real difference from a normal server install w/ LTSP is that we are using LDAP
17:35	<japerry> dyn: that hardware setup is similar to ours
17:35	* lns wants to set up a fds server one day for all his servers
17:35	<japerry> but we're running openSuSE.. and it runs great
17:35	<gbolte> heh dyn whe have our users on a similar server to your new one
17:35	* gbolte slaps japerry
17:35	<johnny_> lol fedora .
17:36	err lol suse
17:36	<lns> johnny, =p
17:36	<johnny_> ?
17:36	<japerry> http://www.fcdnet.org/japerry/2008/05/ltsp-kiwi-opensuse-11-novell-edirectory.html
17:36	<dyn> but.. its really annoying to have happen, because HAL crashes.. and if the system dbus crashes.. A LOT of shit won't work. (I hate gnome, and don't it but.. we need it to work for our normal desktop users)
17:36	<johnny_> silly multiple versions of ltsp
17:36	<lns> fds is supposedly pretty slick for ldap auth, based on netscape directory or something
17:36	<dyn> (well.. HAL just dies if the system dbus isn't listening)
17:36	hmm
17:37	yeah "edirectory" == LDAP, IIRC
17:37	<japerry> dyn: yah, on steroids ;-)
17:37	<lns> I know gutsy leaves ungodly amounts of dbus procs alive after thinclient logout/reboot/etc
17:37	<dyn> lns: you know next nblug is the 10th anniversary :)
17:37	hm
17:37	<japerry> but its not opensource. we use it because it integrates very well with our mail, and windows authentication systems
17:38	<lns> oh wow i'll have to make that then =) that'll be cool
17:38	<japerry> and its hella cheap (compared to M$)
17:38	<dyn> yeah we're getting a penguin cake heh
17:38	<lns> japerry, where are you using that? what's the setup ?
17:38	dyn, nice =)
17:39	<japerry> lns: the blog post? I admin a chemical manufacturing company, running about 20 clients currently on LTSP, should hit 25 by June and 35 probably the end of year
17:39	<johnny_> you should should donate some money to us
17:39	<japerry> we had problems with fds, samba-ldap, etc doing good integration with AD, so I switched to novell
17:40	<johnny_> if you're doing so well
17:40	<lns> japerry, makes sense
17:40	<japerry> I've been working with cyberorg and others in the KIWI-LTSP project
17:40	<johnny_> why is it kiwi-ltsp
17:40	why isn't it just ltsp
17:40	that makes me sad
17:40	<lns> oh no not another fork . .?
17:40	<japerry> johnny_: ltsp is no longer its own distro
17:40	<johnny_> i know this
17:40	<japerry> so suse is using its KIWI imaging system to easily push out LTSP images to clients
17:40	<johnny_> oh
17:40	fedora uses kickstart
17:41	and it's still just called ltsp
17:41	<japerry> it uses the LTSP tools, but has a sick way of updating the images that are then used very nbd
17:41	<johnny_> they include their config for kickstart here
17:41	<japerry> Suse is making sure its called KIWI-LTSP so people don't get the others distros confused..
17:42	there is an opensuse student for Google summer of code working on a pluggable LTSP GUI configurator
17:42	<johnny_> japerry, i definitely know ltsp is not it's own distro anymore.. as i'm finalizing the gentoo port
17:42	japerry, some others are doing that too
17:42	here in the official ltsp project
17:43	<X0d_of_N0d> autologin seems pretty easy... I modded one of our earlier scripts to do that
17:43	<johnny_> if i see duplication.. i'll be sad..
17:43	<japerry> johnny_: I wonder if the_code has been in here lately... I've yet to see a good ltsp configurator working in SuSE
17:43	* X0d_of_N0d is reading back through the previous stuff...sorry if it's non sequitor
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17:45	<johnny_> don't think so.. at least i've never seen this person speak
17:45	<japerry> hmm okay, hes working on easy_ltsp
17:45	<johnny_> is it suse specific?
17:45	some of you guys should work together to fix up the ltsp wiki
17:45	lns, didn't you have your own wiki page? why isn't your stuff in the ltsp wiki anyways?
17:46	<dberkholz> johnny_: the suse soc student & mentor have been posting on the maiing list, fyi
17:46	mailing*
17:46	<japerry> johnny_: hes hoping to make it independent
17:46	<lns> johnny, yeah - i just updated a lot of it today. It's very specific to my company but it does have a lot of useful howtos (imho)
17:46	http://lns.wikidot.com/
17:47	<japerry> johnny_: http://en.opensuse.org/Easy-LTSP
17:47	<lns> johnny, I haven't had time to integrate a lot of it. i've been helping my m$ clients with stupid issues. bah!
17:48	I'm trying to find someone to help me out with microsoft-based clients so i can focus more on linux/ltsp
17:48	<johnny_> fun
17:48	dberkholz, i should subscribe to that list
17:48	why does sf suck so badly
17:48	:(
17:49	<gbolte> lns we took away all the ms clients and gave them remote desktop for their windows only apps
17:49	:P
17:49	rdp to the server
17:49	:D
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17:51	<dyn> gbolte: yeah, we do some of the same thing
17:51	<X0d_of_N0d> can't you just write a script that launches tsclient directly?
17:51	<dyn> did*
17:51	<gbolte> dyn, it works quite well
17:51	<X0d_of_N0d> I mean, if you want to have windows "thin clients" whatever...
17:52	There's this interesting thing called seamless remote shell....
17:52	it's almost like ssh -X for windows...(excpet not secure or stable)
17:52	<gbolte> X0d_of_N0d, well we have them running linux desktops and then when they need their windows only apps they can launch them through RDP
17:52	<lns> gbolte, that's what i'm doing with our LTSP clients - giving them a win2k VM to terminal-services into
17:52	for legacy apps
17:53	<X0d_of_N0d> what virtualization are you using (just curious)
17:53	<lns> X0d_of_N0d, (except not secure or stable) heh
17:53	<gbolte> lol
17:53	<johnny_> beepz
17:53	<japerry> no virtualization
17:53	<lns> X0d_of_N0d, vmware server
17:53	<japerry> for gbolte and mine...
17:53	<X0d_of_N0d> lns: I guess I didn't need to say that because I said windows
17:53	<lns> X0d_of_N0d, ;)
17:53	<japerry> heh right, and we use WebConnect by ericom to push apps to the linux desktop
17:53	<lns> not that linux/ltsp is perfect by any means though
17:54	<japerry> its a bastardized cheap version of citrix
17:54	<X0d_of_N0d> I've used tsclient and seamless rdp for a few apps, and they look pretty good and transparent....
17:54	cpt when they crash... you have to write a wrapper script to clean everything up
17:55	<japerry> X0d_of_N0d: heh yah we've had that problem.. ericom leaves a pretty bad mess around
17:55	<X0d_of_N0d> http://www.goitexpert.com/entry.cfm?entry=Remote-into-One-Application-on-your-Windows-Box-from-any-Linux-Box
17:55	yeah, basically, anything goes wrong you have to log in as admin and kick the user out...
17:55	(on the windoze box I mean)
17:55	<japerry> luckily with LTSP5 we're able to use LDM and ssh seems to kill all the users' processes
17:57	<X0d_of_N0d> lns: I've ran across a few places with windows thin cliens, from talking to some of the users I'd bet ltsp is still more stable
17:57	<lns> I think LTSP should integrate kiwi into itself, and then call itself "banana" (thin kiwi [fruit]) ;)
17:57	* X0d_of_N0d brb
17:58	<lns> X0d_of_N0d, i've heard good and bad things - m$ does have some nice gui apps to manage thin client environments...now if they worked like they were supposed to,....
17:58	<japerry> lns: haha not a bad idea, although KIWI is really built dependent on opensuse at the moment
17:58	<lns> plus, you don't want to have to deal with installing/activating/licensing/configuring a terminal services licensing server
17:58	it's just so much overhead, for the sole purpose of keeping track of how much $$$ you've given ballmer
17:59	<gbolte> speaking of...
17:59	did you see that guy throw eggs at him
17:59	?
17:59	hahaha
17:59	that was funny
17:59	<lns> HAHA..no
17:59	i have that famous vid of bill gates getting pied though
17:59	<gbolte> ah
17:59	you tube balmer egged I bet you will get somethin
18:00	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtBQ4UCXQeo
18:01	thats funny
18:01	guy has no aim
18:01	but still
18:01	<lns> gbolte, what does the guy say? I have no speakers atm
18:02	to have someone throw eggs at you on purpose...you have to wonder if what you're doing is "good" for the world
18:02	<gbolte> not sure
18:03	<lns> but that's the beauty of individualism i guess..everyone has a different point of view
18:03	<gbolte> the protester rose to his feet to challenge Microsoft for stealing billions in Hungarian taxpayer money, then started hurling eggs at Ballmer, who was forced to take cover behind a desk
18:03	<lns> oh ok
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18:04	<gbolte> he was angry that his government spent an ass load of money on M$ product I guess
18:04	<lns> heh...yeah you gotta wonder what kind of international trouble the richest company in the world gets into
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18:05	<lns> you sunk my battleship!
18:05	=p
18:06	<gbolte> haha
18:07	lns have you seen an issue with ldm where if you enter the wrong password it hangs
18:08	<K_O-Gnom> i think in some month the world will declare war against M$ ;-) weapons very old eggs and other rubbish stuff ;-)
18:08	<gbolte> lol K_O-Gnom
18:10	<lns> gbolte, i just know about it asking for the password 3x before bringing you back to a username prompt in gutsy
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18:11	<gbolte> ah
18:11	well on our setup it asks you once if you screw up it freezes and you have to reboot the client
18:11	haha
18:12	<lns> gbolte, ack...no haven't ever heard of that issue
18:12	pretty harsh
18:12	<gbolte> yeah
18:12	<lns> have you tried rebuilding the chroot env?
18:13	<gbolte> yeah, I think its the version of ldm that they have in there
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18:14	<lns> gbolte, this is in gutsy, or .. ?
18:14	<gbolte> na
18:14	opensuse
18:14	<lns> oh
18:15	<gbolte> I just didnt know if this is an old problem that has since been fixed
18:24	<lns> japerry, will there be effort to make kiwi more distro-independant?
18:24	s/dant/dent/
18:24	<japerry> lns: not that I'm aware of. KIWI is a suse feature fairly reliant on the opensuse build system
18:25	to adapt it to another distro would take a lot of work. at best it'd probably only work decently on other rpm based distros
18:25	<lns> boo =p seems like such a waste to tie it to a specific distro :( looks nice though
18:26	of course, it seems best suited for fat-client usage w/nonvolitile storage
18:27	<japerry> they're using KIWI also to streamline the SuSE build process
18:27	openSuSE 11 will probably be the fastest linux install of all the major desktop distros
18:28	but yah I'm not sure what ubuntu/deb folks are doing, if anything when it comes to streamlining the build process
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18:31	* lns does the netsplit wave
18:33	<gbolte> lol
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19:04	<dberkholz> anyone know if ogra's still making it out to the hackfest?
19:04	ubuntu live got canceled
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19:15	* X0d_of_N0d is back
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19:29	<johnny_> dberkholz, i asked him.. he'll know soon
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21:29	<cjsstables> evening all
21:30	what filesdo I need to touch to change my default ltsp desktop from gnome xfce
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23:10	<vertical> Hello, Is anyone here?
23:12	<johnny> never start a irc session with that question
23:12	sup?
23:20	<vertical> sorry
23:21	how about, is it possible to get help with nbd swap
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23:51	<Liebert> Hi all, I was wondering anyone could give advise or point to a site that discuss about installing truecafe billing on edubuntu
23:52	<johnny> never even heard of that
23:52	<Liebert> or any other billing software that support thin client
23:52	<johnny> don't know anybody whos' ever came in here as spoken about billing sincei've been here
23:52	<Liebert> i've search the google, all the billing softwares for internet cafe are meant for windows only
23:52	can't get any for linux
23:52	<johnny> most people doing linux for thin clients are using it for schools
23:53	or in an office
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23:53	<Liebert> not for internet cafe
23:53	<johnny> me.. i use it in a cafe
23:53	but we give ours away for free
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23:53	<johnny> trying to setup pay printing tho
23:53	<Liebert> whew
23:53	<booghotfoot> shital: review your question here
23:53	<shital_> in var/log/messages i have message like this intranet in.tftpd[2713]: tftp: client does not accept options can u help me to sort out this?
23:53	ok
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23:54	<Liebert> johnny: can i run wine to run the billing software?
23:54	<johnny> uhmm... shital_ from where
23:54	Liebert, perhaps
23:54	but i doubt it
23:54	<Liebert> yeah me 2
23:54	<johnny> but..
23:54	<shital_> i have a terminal server, from which all my clients boot up, now they are not getting booted fully, they r getting stuck at login window
23:54	<johnny> there is one thing you can do
23:54	<Liebert> i doubt it, i haven't try it yet
23:55	<johnny> Liebert, you should check out the chillispot software
23:55	it comes with coova ap
23:55	<Liebert> i'll check on it
23:55	<johnny> for wireless access points, which is how i know about it
23:55	<shital_> johny: from India
23:55	<johnny> but it seems like it can work on lan's too
23:55	shital_, no i don't mean where you're at, but on what machine
23:55	<shital_> open Suse 10.3
23:55	<johnny> Liebert, it depends on if all the folks use software that needs to go online
23:56	if they use alot of local software, that wojn't work
23:56	but for internt stuff.. which is 95% of our users
23:56	it will block service to email,im, web (except the sites you want them to be able see without paying)
23:57	until you go through the process
23:57	<booghotfoot> shital_: which version of ltsp did you install?
23:57	<Liebert> yeah, mostly for doc processing and web surfing
23:57	<johnny> which could just be a simple terms of service page, or something requiring payment or accounts
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23:57	<Liebert> but, i also need the billing to charge printing
23:58	<johnny> i just haven't had the time to work on it yet, since i need to make money.. :)
23:58	<Liebert> all of those features are supported on many billing software, but those softwares are meant for windows system only :(
23:58	<johnny> i could write it.. i just haven't had time with other things that keep me alive
23:58	<shital_> <booghotfoot>: ltspfs-0.4.4-2.2
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23:58	<Liebert> :)
23:58	i mean
23:58	<johnny> Liebert, maybe somebody will pay me to write it..
23:58	<Liebert> let's just make the os free
23:58	but the other application for commercial
23:59	i think user can accept it
23:59	<johnny> i plan on writing an open source tool
23:59	i don't write non open software
23:59	<Liebert> it's doesn't necessary that everything free, but no software to use
23:59	it's a problem as well
23:59	<johnny> Liebert, it'd be better if a bunch of people who wanted this feature would just pay somebody to write it, for the cost of the purchase banded together