IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 November 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:38 | <Ryan52> | |
| 00:57 | <sbalneav> Hahha, I'll make vagrant happy
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| 00:57 | warren too.
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| 00:58 | <Ryan52> why?
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| 00:58 | well, not why, but how :)
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| 00:58 | <sbalneav> Turns out some of the timing problems they've been having are due to timing problems with the X server starting.
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| 00:58 | So, we spawn X, but begin doing things on the X server before it's actually ready to work.
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| 00:58 | Sooooo.
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| 00:59 | <Ryan52> ah
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| 00:59 | <sbalneav> Turns out, if you spawn the X server with SIGUSR1 set to SIG_IGN, X takes this as a hint that, when you've got everything plumbed...
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| 00:59 | it'll send a SIGUSR1 to the parent process. In this case, ldm.
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| 00:59 | So, all we need to do is:
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| 01:00 | use ldm_spawn to start X, with an additional helper function that sets SIGUSR1 to SIG_IGN
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| 01:01 | Then, before we do anything else, block, using sigsuspend() in a loop, waiting for SIGUSR1
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| 01:01 | then, when we get it, we know X is fully started, and we can continue plumbing the connection.
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| 01:01 | Race conditions... fixed!
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| 01:02 | I'll code it up tomorrow.
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| 01:02 | * sbalneav is so happy. | |
| 01:02 | <sbalneav> That'll make things more reliable.
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| 01:13 | I'm up late.
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| 01:13 | I'm still wired.
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| 01:13 | And I'm feelin' feisty.
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| 01:13 | FLAME WAR TIME.
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| 01:14 | K&R bracing style for C coding is The One True Style, and anyone who thinks different is a HEATHEN!
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| 01:17 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 03:51 | <warren> Is any wireless card capable of doing netboot?
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| 03:51 | * warren is wondering if he should blacklist all wireless drivers from auto-loading. | |
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| 06:00 | <ogra> warren, we dont include any wlan drivers in the ubuntu/debian initramfs
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| 06:01 | <ogra> warren, (for netbooting that is)
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| 06:14 | <warren> ogra: yeah, I just removed them all from my initrd
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| 06:14 | ogra: some of them can cause boot problems because it loads without firmware available
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| 06:16 | <ogra> thats bad
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| 06:16 | (no such pobs in ubuntu though, but it shrinks the initrd massively)
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| 06:17 | <warren> it is only a problem due to kernel bugs
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| 06:17 | they never test it without firmware
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| 06:18 | one example of badness is airo
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| 06:21 | <ogra> wel, why should they test without firmware :)
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| 11:38 | <cliebow> jammcq:you were asking about wireless antenna?
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| 12:03 | <Nubae> hey is create usb startup disk a intrepid only thing, or is it hardy with updates too?
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| 12:51 | <cliebow> jammcq:??
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| 13:47 | <vagrantc> well, looks like i'll just have a patched ltspfs 0.5.3 nearly identical to 0.5.5 rather than 0.5.5 ... heh. :)
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| 13:48 | <alkisg> vagrantc, I do want to test debian ltsp sometime... maybe when lenny is out! :)
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| 13:48 | I'm installing an LTSP server (Intrepid) and I only have my laptop as a TC to test the server. Boots OK but kbd/mouse do not work under X. I can press Ctrl+Alt+F1 and logon to the TC console though. Xorg.7.log says "Cannot locate a core pointer device" and to reconfigure HAL or disable AllowEmptyInput. Any ideas?
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| 13:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: lenny will be out ... someday :)
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| 13:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but it's reasonably stable ... don't see a lot of changes day-to-day.
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| 14:09 | <Nubae> alkisg: weird one
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> Nubae, I got the keyboard working temporarily by creating a xorg.conf, putting allowemptyinput and restarting X (all these on the TC)
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| 14:10 | <Nubae> did u set CONFIGURE_X=True?
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> Anyway, this will do for now!!! I don't have other TCs here, grrr...
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| 14:11 | Nubae, no, I didn't try it. I'll try it now...
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| 14:11 | <Nubae> ah wait not necessary for keyboard and mouse in theory
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> Nubae, magic! It worked!! (damned if I know why...)
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| 14:17 | Err... only keyboard worked, no touchpad, no usb mouse... :(
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| 14:17 | Anyway, this will have to do, it's for server testing anyhow
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| 14:17 | <Nubae> well then maybe u need to tweak the mouse, touchpad
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| 14:18 | I mean the x_keyb and x_mouse settings or whatever they are called
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| 14:18 | <ogra> Nubae, usb-creator is intrepid only
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| 14:18 | <Nubae> ogra: ok, thanks
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| 14:18 | * Nubae put his foot in his mouth by anouncing that was available for hardy too :p | |
| 14:19 | <ogra> you can use hardy isos with it i think
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| 14:19 | but it will only run on intrepid
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| 15:05 | <mr_claus> hi, i get a lot of "Read: Connection refused" errors while booting ltsp from the network, is there are problem with finding the nfs export?
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| 16:33 | <stgraber> sbalneav: around ?
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| 16:34 | I was looking at my backlog and at the BTS wiki page. I find the idea of having a xrandr script interesting except that this one should be started before ldmgtkgreet. Is that something you can implement ? (let's say /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/P* got executed after X but before the greeter) ?
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| 16:34 | then we could have xrandr and xsetkbmap started as pre-ldm scripts
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| 16:50 | <vagrantc> stgraber: we have /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/I*
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| 16:50 | stgraber: post-X, pre-greeter
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| 16:53 | <stgraber> oh, that's great :)
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| 16:53 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i just implemented setxkbmap and numlockx stuff using that.
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| 16:54 | what all can you do with xrandr, besides turn your screen upside down?
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| 16:54 | set the resolution and color depth?
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| 16:55 | <stgraber> resolution, screen rotation, dual-head
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| 16:55 | add/remove/switch modes too
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| 16:55 | and probably more with randr 1.3 (current is 1.2, 1.3 is being specced)
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| 16:55 | <vagrantc> i tried playing with the commandline client the other day but couldn't figure out the syntax
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| 16:55 | that would sure beat hacking up the xorg.conf :)
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| 16:56 | <stgraber> xrandr --output VGA --mode 1024x768 --left-of LVDS
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| 16:56 | for example
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| 16:56 | <petre> dual head would be cool
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| 16:56 | <stgraber> on my lappy that adds a 1024x768 screen connected to the VGA output left of my laptop
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| 16:57 | only probably with randr 1.2, you need to set a Virtual resolution that must be bigger than the total resolution of all your display
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| 16:57 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 16:57 | <stgraber> so here I have: 1680x1050 (my lappy), if I want to add a 1024x768 screen to the left of it, I'll need the Virtual resolution to be at least 2704x1050
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| 16:58 | it's the only thing that makes dual-head difficult on Linux at the moment :(
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> can you change the virtual resolution with xrandr itself, at least?
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| 16:58 | <stgraber> no, that's the problem
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 16:58 | <stgraber> the Virtual resolution needs to be hardcoded in xorg.conf :(
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| 16:59 | <petre> stgraber, why can't it be changed with xrandr?
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| 16:59 | oh
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| 16:59 | <vagrantc> well, it at least sounds useful for setting resolution and color depth :)
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| 16:59 | <stgraber> petre: ask a Xorg developer ... I'd love it to just not exist :)
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| 16:59 | <jammcq> there's several ways to do dual-head on Linux
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| 16:59 | <stgraber> vagrantc: yeah and supporting it correctly will make dual-head easier when that limitation will disappear
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| 17:00 | <jammcq> depending on the chipset you have
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| 17:00 | <vagrantc> how do you get a list of valid outputs?
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| 17:00 | <stgraber> vagrantc: just run xrandr
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| 17:00 | you'll get something like: default connected 1680x1050+0+0 0mm x 0mm
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| 17:00 | that's for the "default" output
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| 17:01 | <vagrantc> yeah.
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| 17:01 | <stgraber> on my EEE (Intel board), xrandr shows me: VGA (disconnected) and LVDS (connected 1024x600)
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| 17:02 | jammcq: yeah, randr is the way to setup clone/dual-head for cards with a standard open source driver, then ATI and Nvidia have their own stuff with the binary drives
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| 17:02 | *drivers
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| 17:02 | <vagrantc> great!
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| 17:02 | <petre> I never could get dual head to work with Feisty on my Dell w/ Intel video
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| 17:03 | <stgraber> on my lappy I have a Radeon HD with the binary driver and I can setup a dual-head without having to touch my xorg.conf, but that's not using RANDR, it uses some kind of binary daemon to trigger some stuff
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> stgraber, nvidia does support xrandr
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| 17:03 | <stgraber> alkisg: oh ? so the Nvidia tool is just a frontend to randr now ?
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> stgraber, no :) but both are supported
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| 17:03 | <stgraber> ATI pretends to support RANDR but in fact they only support the resolution change part of it :) not the dual-head part
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> I don't know how well it supports it, but I can do dual head with my laptop without going to nvidia-settings
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| 17:04 | <stgraber> cool
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| 17:04 | that's a big improvement
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| 17:04 | (I'd love to have that with my ATI :), on my Intel computers I have some .desktop to start the dual-head and I can't script the ATI stuff)
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| 17:06 | * stgraber is finishing the installation of the LTSP-Cluster demo/developement server. It'll have: firefox (+flash and java), skype, audacity and blender as localapps | |
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| 20:25 | <sbalneav> Everning all
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| 20:25 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 20:26 | figured you'd be at the cottage this weekend
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| 20:26 | <sbalneav> Nope, shut 'er down last weekend.
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| 20:27 | <stgraber> evening sbalneav
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| 20:28 | <sbalneav> Evening stgraber
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| 20:30 | <jammcq> shut it down?
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| 20:30 | like.... not going again until the spring thaw?
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| 20:30 | <sbalneav> Well, cleaned it up, drained the water system, etc.
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| 20:30 | <jammcq> wow
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| 20:31 | <sbalneav> I haven't got enough firewood this winter to make it economical to visit during the cold season.
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| 20:32 | <sbalneav> Plus, I need to build an outhouse, to combat the problem of a freezing septic system :)
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| 20:32 | <stgraber> :)
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| 20:33 | * stgraber is happy, he just got the webcam to work correctly with LTSP+localapp+skype+autologin | |
| 20:33 | <jammcq> hmm, that makes me have 2nd thoughts about visiting that cottage :)
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| 20:34 | <sbalneav> Hey, outhouses are great! Economical, environmentally friendly, save on water, what's not to like? :)
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| 20:34 | <jammcq> no internet
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| 20:35 | <stgraber> jammcq: get a satellite link :)
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| 20:35 | <sbalneav> What, wireless won't go 50 feet?
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| 20:35 | <jammcq> no power
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| 20:35 | <jammcq> no heat
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| 20:35 | splinters
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| 20:35 | <sbalneav> lol
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| 20:35 | Picky picky
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| 20:35 | <stgraber> power => diesel generator, heat => firewood
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| 20:35 | <jammcq> nothing worse than a butt splinter
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| 20:36 | * sbalneav imagines an outhouse with a satellite link, dedicated 15kw diesel generator, and woodstove. | |
| 20:36 | <stgraber> :)
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| 20:37 | * jammcq just isn't the "roughing it" kind a guy | |
| 20:37 | <sbalneav> So, don't come in the winter! :)
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| 20:37 | Summer's all indoor plumbing.
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| 20:37 | <jammcq> ah, problem solved
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| 20:49 | * vagrantc wants an internet shack | |
| 20:51 | <johnny> helloz
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| 20:51 | <stgraber> hi johnny
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| 20:51 | <johnny> i finally have an ltsp terminal machine at home :)
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| 20:52 | now.. i just need to get a video card with svideo out...
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| 20:55 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: So, I've figured out the correct way to handle the X server race condition.
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| 20:55 | I'm coding it up now.
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: cool.
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| 20:59 | sbalneav: regarding the cdpinger segfault patch, pere mentioned something about using function(void) instead of function() for functions that don't accept any arguments.
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| 20:59 | <sbalneav> So, the way to handle it properly is:
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| 20:59 | vagrantc: yeah, saw that.
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> Ryan52 says all our ltsp code doesn't do that.
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| 20:59 | or most of it
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| 20:59 | or something like that
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| 21:00 | <sbalneav> I learned C years and years ago, so I keep doing the old (and as pere points out, not proper style) function() and not function(void).
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| 21:00 | <stgraber> oh, we are supposed to do function(void) in C ? :)
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| 21:01 | <sbalneav> Let's go through at the hackfest, and take a quick shufty through the code, and fix any of those up.
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| 21:01 | <Ryan52> stgraber: ya, otherwise it doesn't get mad if you try to do function(1,2,3)
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| 21:02 | <stgraber> Ryan52: ah, because () means "I'll care of the parameters myself)" ?
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| 21:02 | <sbalneav> yeah, it's that newfangled fancy-pants "ANSI" way of doing C. These young whippersnappers with their standards and their loud rock-n-roll music. What's an old-fart C programmer to do?
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| 21:02 | <stgraber> :)
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| 21:03 | * stgraber is installing openarena as localapp, so we can have some fun at the hackfest :) | |
| 21:03 | <sbalneav> When I learned programming, we didn't even have ones and zeros! All we had were zeros! And we *liked* it that way!
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| 21:04 | Heh.
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| 21:05 | I taught myself C in 1985. Anyone remember the "C Primer Plus" by the Waite group?
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| 21:05 | <stgraber> well, except of iTalc I don't do much C/C++ anymore, most of my stuff are bash+python as most things can be done with that in a lot easier way than with compiled languages
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| 21:05 | <sbalneav> Yeah, I've learned me bash pretty good, and I'm not completely useless with Python.
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| 21:06 | Anywho, we should fix those function prototypes up.
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| 21:06 | It's the right thing to do.
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| 21:07 | Do the needful.
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| 21:08 | vagrantc: anyway...
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| 21:08 | So the way to fix it is:
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| 21:08 | <sbalneav> When we spawn the X server, we set SIGUSR1 to SIG_IGN
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| 21:09 | Then X will send a SIGUSR1 to it's parent process (ldm) when all it's input methods are plumbed, and it's ready to rock-n-roll.
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| 21:09 | <sbalneav> ldm just sits in a nice sigsuspend() loop, waiting for SIGUSR1
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| 21:10 | When we drop out the bottom, X is ready to go.
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| 21:11 | <stgraber> sbalneav: btw, while you are dealing with signals in LDM, can you also add catchall for keyboard input in ldm ? so we can then add <tab> = <enter> (to have a gdm-like behavior)
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: sounds good to me!
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| 21:12 | <sbalneav> stgraber: We'd have to do that in the greeter
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| 21:13 | <stgraber> hmm, right, not the same part of ldm
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| 21:13 | <sbalneav> Not sure how to do that, I'd have to look up the gtk funtion reference.
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| 21:13 | I think there's a way to do that for input fields, but I'd have to look it up.
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> it's probably gtk_emulate_gdm_enter_tab_behavior_foo_magic_thingy()
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| 21:14 | <stgraber> (it's one of the problem reported by our gdm => ldm migration testers)
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> just xmodmap it in the rc.d/I* and then switch it back with rc.d/S*
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| 21:14 | * vagrantc grins | |
| 21:14 | <stgraber> vagrantc: hmm, I wonder why it sounds like a hack to me :)
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| 21:16 | <sbalneav> gtk_insanely_long_function_name_because_we_make_functions_up_for_whenever_theres_two_lines_of_code_that_can_be_turned_into_a_function_even_though_the_function_name_is_longer_than_the_two_lines()
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| 21:16 | Ooops
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| 21:16 | gtk_insanely_long_function_name_because_we_make_functions_up_for_whenever_theres_two_lines_of_code_that_can_be_turned_into_a_function_even_though_the_function_name_is_longer_than_the_two_lines(void)
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| 21:17 | <stgraber> :)
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| 21:17 | <sbalneav> heh
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| 21:17 | IT'S A META-JOKE PEOPLE!! THIS IS MY BEST STUFF HERE!
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| 21:18 | Geez, it's either me or Gadi's "Your mama's thin client" jokes, take your pick. :)
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| 21:18 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i can't speak honestly without gadi being present.
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| 21:18 | it just ain't right.
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| 21:18 | <sbalneav> lol
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| 21:19 | * sbalneav taps mike | |
| 21:19 | <jammcq> hahahahahahahahahahahahahah
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| 21:19 | is that better?
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| 21:19 | <sbalneav> Is this thing on... Is this thing on?!?
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| 21:19 | heh
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| 21:21 | * vagrantc listens to the feedback | |
| 21:22 | <sbalneav> So, does anyone else get this errormessage from bzr?
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| 21:22 | Server is too old for streaming pull, reconnecting. (Upgrade the server to Bazaar 1.2 to avoid this)
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| 21:22 | I'dve thought that LP would be at the latest of whatever
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| 21:23 | Or do I need some magic glue in my bazaar.conf?
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| 21:24 | <stgraber> sbalneav: it's the branch that isn't up to date, not the server
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| 21:24 | sbalneav: bzr upgrade "remote URL"
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| 21:25 | <sbalneav> oh, ok
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| 21:25 | <stgraber> (do a backup before you do that, just in case you break the branch server-side)
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| 21:26 | <sbalneav> sbalneav@phobos:~/Devel/bzr/ldm-trunk-sbalneav$ bzr upgrade lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk
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| 21:26 | bzr: ERROR: The branch format Bazaar-NG meta directory, format 1 is already at the most recent format.
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| 21:26 | I'm taking it that my branch is ok?
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| 21:27 | <vagrantc> no!
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| 21:28 | please don't upgrade the remote branch.
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| 21:28 | we had agreed to a particular repository format.
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| 21:28 | <sbalneav> It's my own branch
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| 21:28 | <vagrantc> oh.
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| 21:29 | ~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk sounds an awful lot like the upstream branch
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| 21:29 | <sbalneav> Well, I was merging from that.
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| 21:29 | <vagrantc> should all be pack-0.92 format ...
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| 21:29 | <sbalneav> So don't I want my branch to be the same format as trunk?
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| 21:30 | How can I find out?
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| 21:30 | * johnny hopes the bzr people allow other shortcuts than lp | |
| 21:30 | * johnny finds it shortsighted not to make it configurable | |
| 21:30 | <johnny> i question their motives sometimes..
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| 21:30 | <sbalneav> Submit patches.
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| 21:30 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: the fun thing is, i have no idea. because bzr reports one type, but all the bzr FOO --type sort of options use different names.
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| 21:30 | <johnny> yeah.. it's lame
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| 21:31 | too many branch formats
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| 21:31 | <vagrantc> at least 2 with each upstream version!
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| 21:31 | maybe a slight exadgeration, but not so much.
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| 21:32 | <sbalneav> whatever, I'll just do what I always do. I'll just let people merge from my branch.
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| 21:32 | <stgraber> we had to go with 1.0 rich-root-pack for ltsp-cluster as it was imported from SVN ... that breaks compatibility with a good part of bzr client
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| 21:32 | <vagrantc> ugh.
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| 21:34 | <stgraber> sbalneav: what happens if you go in ldm-trunk and do : bzr merge ../ldm-trunk-sbalneav
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| 21:35 | <sbalneav> dunno.
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| 21:35 | The error message never stops me from doing things, I just wondered if it was normal.
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| 21:35 | I'll ignore it for now :)
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| 21:48 | <stgraber> yeah !!! OpenArena running on a thin client :)
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| 21:48 | ok, that's Atom based thin client and that's localapp but still :)
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| 21:51 | <johnny> shouldn't rich root pack be the default in bzr?
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| 21:51 | since later 1.x releases?
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| 21:53 | <stgraber> not sure, I just looked at a branch I recently created on Intrepid and it was 0.92
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| 21:53 | <johnny> hmm.. odd
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| 21:53 | weirdos
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| 21:53 | * johnny kicks bzr in the face | |
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| 22:55 | <sbalneav> Whoohoo.
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| 22:55 | Works
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| 22:57 | <stgraber> and now I have Compiz working on the thin client :)
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| 22:58 | <ltsppbot> "sbalneav" pasted "diff's for X race removal" (165 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/87
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| 23:00 | <sbalneav> Probably should set the handler for SIGUSR1 back to default SIG_IGN afterwards, I'll worry about that tomorrow.
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| 23:00 | In the meantime, x_session() doesn't return until X has started and ready to go.
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| 23:01 | <jammcq> sbalneav: good job
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| 23:16 | <sbalneav> Night all, heading to bed.
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| 23:18 | <stgraber> night
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