IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:16 | <alkisg> Lns, ping?
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| 06:32 | <jackli> hi,ogra
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| 06:33 | cyberorg:hi
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| 06:33 | <cyberorg> hi jackli :)
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| 06:34 | <jackli> :)
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| 06:56 | <racquad> hi guys. i'm trying to create a ltsp-cluster using heartbeat. the problem is that when my two nodes are up, my thinclient cannot connect at all. how can I define which server it will connect?
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| 08:43 | <lipinski> Cannot get ltsp-build-client to work under Ubuntu 8.10 - fails because it cannot configure hal. Anyone here that can help?
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| 08:51 | <lipinski> Anyone seen this problem with ltsp-build-client? http://pastebot.ltsp.org/125
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| 08:56 | <k3j0> hi agin i've still errors while boting with my clients... My server runs kiwi-ltsp newest ver (seuse 11) here are the errors : http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/8519/img0254qs7.jpg , http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/268/img0261vc9.jpg the montor always switching between these two eindows /(all 2sec...) sb knows the prob or could help me? thx
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| 08:56 | <Blinny> lipinski: No, sorry.
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| 08:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> !doco
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| 08:57 | <ltspbot`> _UsUrPeR_: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 09:04 | <k3j0> thers no troubleshhot-sectipn^^
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| 09:05 | <cyberorg> k3j0, http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Troubleshooting
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| 09:05 | <k3j0> already read^^
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| 09:06 | <cyberorg> k3j0, pastebin your /srv/tftpboot/KIWI/lts.conf please
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| 09:06 | <k3j0> kk
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| 09:07 | <_UsUrPeR_> is there any conceptual documentation for ltsp-localapps?
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| 09:08 | <cyberorg> _UsUrPeR_, very little here http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps
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| 09:08 | one line almost at the end
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| 09:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> cyberorg: do you know who wrote it? Specifically the daemon
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| 09:09 | <cyberorg> _UsUrPeR_, all ltsp devs during last hackfest
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| 09:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> :P
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| 09:11 | <cyberorg> sbalneav, you wrote that?
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| 09:12 | _UsUrPeR_, gory details here http://ltspthinclient.blogspot.com/ :)
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| 09:12 | <k3j0> cyberorg here, http://pastebin.com/m4fc5f691
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| 09:12 | tried with CONFIGURE_X true and false
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| 09:12 | <cyberorg> k3j0, please change CONFIGURE_X=True
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| 09:13 | what graphics hardware do you have?
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| 09:14 | <k3j0> dont really know mom im checking
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| 09:15 | <k3j0> we've a lot of IGELs
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| 09:15 | just got a link of another network worker
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| 09:15 | http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Clients#IGEL
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| 09:15 | <cyberorg> this should work http://pastebin.com/dba75318
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| 09:16 | k3j0, just 32M ram?
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| 09:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: ping
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| 09:16 | <k3j0> cyberorg, think so
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| 09:17 | <cyberorg> k3j0, i doubt our ltsp5 will be usable with 32M ram
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| 09:17 | <lipinski> Anyone know who owns ltsp-build-client tool? Specifically looking for help with Ubuntu 8.10.
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| 09:17 | <k3j0> O_o
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| 09:18 | <cyberorg> k3j0, try http://pastebin.com/de3ce8f1
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| 09:18 | <k3j0> is there another possibility with a cutten image or something`,cyberorg?
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| 09:18 | ty i will
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| 09:19 | <cyberorg> k3j0, least we require is 128M on the client to be usable, ideally 256 is good for our setup, although it may boot with about 64M but will not be very usable
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| 09:20 | <k3j0> we already used it before...^^
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| 09:20 | dunno maybe an o,der ver
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| 09:20 | <cyberorg> k3j0, not with ltsp5
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| 09:20 | <EAG> hello, are there any good guides available regarding getting audio?
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| 09:20 | <cyberorg> EAG, it should just work out of box
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| 09:21 | <EAG> I dont get sound out of the thinclient-box unfortunately
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| 09:21 | <cyberorg> EAG, ltsp5?
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| 09:21 | <EAG> nor out of the server either
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| 09:21 | yeah I guess it is 5
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| 09:22 | <cyberorg> EAG, which distro?
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| 09:22 | <EAG> ubuntu 8.04
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| 09:22 | <cyberorg> it should work out of box on ubuntu, wait for ogra he may be able to help
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| 09:22 | <EAG> I am a bit lost here :)
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| 09:22 | okay
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| 09:36 | <k3j0> cyberorg, http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Clients#What_s_the_minimum_client here it says 32mb are ok! i need to know if its really NOT waokring with 32mb..
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| 09:38 | <cyberorg> k3j0, http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP#What_is_required
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| 09:38 | k3j0, alt and ubuntu probably still works with 32M ram
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| 09:39 | <cliebow> k3j0:that doc is for 4.2..32 meg makes a fine client in 4.2
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| 09:39 | <k3j0> kk
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| 09:39 | <cyberorg> ubuntu will not be usable with 32M, just good enough to boot
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| 09:39 | <k3j0> ive suse
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| 09:40 | <cyberorg> k3j0, what happened with the last lts.conf?
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| 09:41 | <k3j0> same thing
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| 09:41 | just got blinking screens
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| 09:41 | and a login shell
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| 09:41 | <cyberorg> k3j0, try XSERVER = vesa
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| 09:42 | <k3j0> kk
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| 09:42 | <lipinski> Anyone upgrade an LTSP Server from Ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10?
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| 09:51 | <k3j0> same window... is it possible that it doesnt works becasue of the low RAM? ill try with my notebook
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| 09:53 | <cyberorg> k3j0, yes please it, remove XSERVER= line from lts.conf
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| 09:53 | k3j0, find out what graphics hardware the client has for sure
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| 09:53 | it does not like nsc and vesa
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| 09:55 | one more thing you can try is X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16 with XSERVER = vesa
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| 09:55 | also ssh into the client and get /var/log/Xorg.*.log
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| 09:58 | <EAG> where do I set the default session for the client?
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| 09:58 | it keeps using xfce instead of gnome
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| 10:01 | <k3j0> hmm i just booted with my old fujitsu noteboook (128mb ram) and the same thing as on the client
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| 10:04 | <cyberorg> k3j0, removed XSERVER line and added CONFIGURE_X = True?
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| 10:05 | <k3j0> ill try again with a differnt lts.conf then answering second
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| 10:13 | <k3j0> ty cyberorg, now i can login with my notebook :D just not with the client...
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| 10:14 | <cyberorg> k3j0, with the client try X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16 and XSERVER = vesa
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| 10:14 | <k3j0> kk
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| 10:14 | <cyberorg> if it still does not work get Xorg logs from the client (ssh into it)
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| 10:15 | <k3j0> y
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| 10:21 | <cyberorg> k3j0, i got to go, post your findings on kiwi-ltsp-users mailing list, i doubt 32M client will work though
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| 10:21 | ciao all
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| 10:23 | <k3j0> omg wtf it works :D thank u very very much
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| 10:23 | cyberorg! ur my man ;)
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| 10:24 | <lipinski> Any ltsp-build-client experts joined recently?
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| 10:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> lipinski: what's going on? I am no where close to a expert, but I may be able to help a little...
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| 10:37 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: did you have a kernel bug yesterday so you wanted the old kernel?
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| 10:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: No, I'm good. This pertains more to congruent kernel specs. There was no bug.
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| 10:39 | <warren> no bug? damn, we could have just stopped and fired everyone.
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| 10:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> I prefer Singapore's public caning. People learn after a caning.
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| 10:42 | <warren> There is a "Caning Shop" near here.
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| 10:42 | They sell caning services.
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| 10:43 | sadly, it seems all furniture related.
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| 10:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> baww. Is it at least run by Singaporeans?
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| 10:46 | <lipinski> _UsUrPer_: After upgrading from Ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10 - ltsp-build-client fails, and I cannot get a successful chroot built.
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| 10:47 | _UsUrPeR_: here is some of the ltsp-build-client output: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/125
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| 10:48 | hal fails to configure for two reasons - dbus cannot be force-reloaded by hal.postinst - and something with polkit-auth
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| 10:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> lipinski: I have not had too much luck with ubuntu 8.10 upgrade
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| 10:49 | <lipinski> My Ubuntu 8.10 upgrade was flawless - until I tried to rebuild my ltsp client images.
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| 10:50 | Is there a way to "downgrade" back to 8.04?
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| 10:50 | I'm trying to avoid a fresh install of my system - but I haven't found any info on how to go back to 8.04... I would if I could.
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| 10:51 | <_UsUrPeR_> Can't give a definitive answer on a downgrade.
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| 10:52 | I am sure it's possible, but I don't know of an automatic function to downgrade
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| 10:52 | Anyone else care to weigh in?
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| 10:53 | <Blinny> Fresh install without formatting /home ought to do it.
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| 10:54 | lipinski: Can I suggest you ask on the LTSP mailing list also?
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| 10:55 | lipinski: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
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| 10:55 | <lipinski> Well - I'd prefer to stay on 8.10, but I need to get around this LTSP problem... I have gotten nowhere on being able to rebuild my client images on 8.10.
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| 10:56 | I guess "build" rather. I can't build any image at all on 8.10
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| 10:56 | <Blinny> Wow. You first reported this on Nov 20 ?
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| 10:57 | Are you fully updated?
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| 10:57 | <lipinski> Blinny: fully updated how? My 8.10 upgrade completed without a hitch. Then I tried to rebuild my LTSP client images by removing /opt/ltsp, and ltsp-build-client. It constantly fails.
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| 10:57 | <Blinny> Can you purge & reinstall ltsp-server-standalone ?
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| 10:58 | lipinski: meaning aptitude update && aptitude dist-upgrade doesn't bring any more packages
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| 10:58 | <lipinski> Blinny: let me try both your suggestions
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| 10:59 | <Blinny> try the dist-upgrade first
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| 11:00 | <lipinski> WOW - 91 packages to upgrade and 4 new to install.
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| 11:04 | <lipinski> Blinny: Will purge of ltsp-server-standalone delete my /opt/ltsp and /tftpboot contents?
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| 11:06 | <Blinny> lipinski: Not sure. You should absolutely back up anything important (I'm thinking about /etc/ltsp and wherever you keep your lts.conf )
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| 11:06 | But yes. Update first.
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| 11:21 | <lipinski> Blinny: My system has both ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone packages. I only purge and install ltsp-server-standalone?
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| 11:24 | <Blinny> lipinski: The update didn't work?
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| 11:25 | <lipinski> dist-upgrade worked. I purged and reinstalled ltsp-server-standalone (only - not ltsp-server). I'm running ltsp-build-client now
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| 11:26 | <lipinski> Blinny: same problem with ltsp-build-client - dpkg --configure hal fails, so ltsp-build-client fails: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/125
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| 11:27 | I'm going to try and purge and install ltsp-server
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| 11:29 | <Blinny> I'm assuming ltsp-build-client is a part of ltsp-server - I'm trying to find out for sure now
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| 11:31 | lipinski: Gotta run - be back later
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| 11:31 | <lipinski> Blinny: Thanks. ltsp-build-client running again after purge/install of ltsp-server
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| 11:31 | <lipinski> Blinny: we'll see if this helps.
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| 11:45 | <alkisg> Erm... in Intrepid: I copied /etc/apt/sources.list to the chroot, and did apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. And I got a prompt to configure the lilo bootloader inside the chroot!!! Is this normal? I haven't seen this before...
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| 11:50 | <Lns> alkisg: pong?
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| 11:50 | <alkisg> Lns, hey man!
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| 11:50 | <lipinski> Blinny: when you get back - still no luck - ltsp-build-client still fails.
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| 11:51 | <alkisg> I got bonding working, that's why I pinged you before
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| 11:51 | <Lns> alkisg: oh nice =) what method did you use?
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| 11:51 | <alkisg> It's just great, I can remove 2-3 ftp cables from my server and it's still working!! :)
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| 11:51 | Mode 0
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| 11:51 | I didn't try anything else, worked fine out of the box
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| 11:52 | But I followed a how to for 6.10, and then I saw that another one existed for intrepid
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| 11:52 | I want to try the newer one also...
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| 11:52 | <Lns> alkisg: that is awesome - no switch config?
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| 11:52 | URL me the 6.10 howto if you can
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| 11:53 | <alkisg> Lns, my switch is unmanaged, couldn't config it even if I tried... :P
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| 11:53 | <Lns> heh
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| 11:53 | How many NICs do you have in your server if you can pull 2-3 out??
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| 11:53 | <alkisg> Lns, I followed this one: http://www.howtoforge.com/network_bonding_ubuntu_6.10
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| 11:54 | And I want to also try this one (for intrepid): http://blog.brightbox.co.uk/posts/howto-do-ethernet-bonding-on-ubuntu-properly
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| 11:54 | !pastebot
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| 11:54 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 11:54 | <Lns> alkisg: bad url..or at least i can't get to it
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| 11:54 | oh wait, it's me
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| 11:54 | <ltsppbot> "alkisg" pasted "iftop -i bond0 with an 100Mbps switch" (22 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/126
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| 11:55 | <alkisg> Lns, 4 NICs, 270Mbps of actual traffic while playing a video.
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| 11:55 | I think I'll get 380 with netperf...
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| 11:55 | <Lns> wow...what's the top-end of a GB/sec nic again? I heard it's actually around 400mbps
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> Lns, with GBit I'm worried about the PCI bus speed... I think we'll have to use pci-e NICs will in the near future.
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| 11:58 | <Lns> ah
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| 11:58 | sounds about right
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> In another lab, a gigabit one, I got about 380 with actual traffic, but I didn't do extensive benchmarks (netperf etc)
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| 11:59 | <Lns> brb
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| 12:22 | * lns_ sighs... What's up with me and filesystem corruption/hard drive crashes lately | |
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| 12:28 | * _UsUrPeR_ needs some assistance from one of the individuals w/ hands-on experience on ltsp-localappsd | |
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| 12:35 | <EAG> hmm which xorg.conf-file is ltsp using?
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| 12:36 | <warren> EAG: what distro?
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| 12:36 | <EAG> ubuntu
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| 12:37 | my ltsp-session seems to be using some kind of default settings
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| 12:37 | <lipinski> Blinny: I found a solution to my problem!!! Have no idea exactly why, but ltsp-build-client seems to break if /opt is a symlink. (I had /opt symlinked to /usr/local/opt). I have no idea why it failed with dbus, policykit, and hal; but I moved my original /opt and created an actual /opt directory on my root partition, and voila.
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| 12:38 | <EAG> no nvidia-driver and the screen can only be set to 800x600 at highest
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| 12:38 | *sigh
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| 12:38 | * Lns wonders if the same thing would happen to lipinski if it was a hard link | |
| 12:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> EAG: did you install the nvidia drivers in the chroot?
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| 12:40 | <EAG> no
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| 12:41 | <Blinny> lipinski: Good.
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| 12:44 | <EAG> so... it still uses the same xorg.conf-file?
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| 12:45 | <_UsUrPeR_> eag: yeah. it's location has to be specified in the lts.conf file
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| 12:45 | <EAG> okay
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| 12:46 | <lipinski> uh_oh - new LTSP problem. On client, I don't get a login screen. After the Ubuntu splash, the screen starts blinking between a blank screen and a screen that just says: xauth: creating new authority file /var/run/ldm-xauth-CiNdz3777
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| 12:50 | <warren> I want to tag ltsp-trunk today
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| 12:52 | <alkisg> lipinski: wild guess, nvidia card on the client?
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| 12:54 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: hmm, I really rather not pull avahi into the client chroot
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| 12:54 | _UsUrPeR_: cups pulls in avahi
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| 12:54 | cups also complicates chroot setup matters because some people will want avahi and cups service running, but most users don't
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| 12:54 | _UsUrPeR_: I'm afraid this should be configurable by users and not default
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| 12:54 | <lipinski> alkisg: let me check - it's a Neoware CA10
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| 12:55 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: wait a sec, why does cups have to run on a client?
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| 12:55 | <lipinski> alkisg: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8623 [Apollo CLE266]
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| 12:56 | <alkisg> lipinski: you'll have to look at xorg.0.log on the client....
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| 12:57 | <lipinski> alkisg: does sshd run on the client by default in 8.10? It didn't in 8.04 - I had to customize the chroot to allow ssh and rebuild the image.
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| 12:57 | <alkisg> lipinski: no, you either have to do SCREEN_02=shell or press ctrl+alt+f1 and logon manually...
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| 13:03 | <EAG> hmm any suggestions on what to put in lts.conf regarding nvidia-drivers?
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| 13:04 | I edited /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 13:04 | but it doesnt seem to work
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| 13:07 | <_UsUrPeR_> EAG: the following line "X_CONF = /etc/X11/xorg.conf" would point towards the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf file
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| 13:08 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: the path in X_CONF should be within the chroot, not including /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 13:08 | k3j0 has quit IRC | |
| 13:08 | <EAG> ok..
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| 13:08 | X_CONF is in lts.conf?
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| 13:08 | <lipinski> alkisg: can't login manually - after ctrl+alt+F1 - screen keeps flickering back and forth.
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> lipinski: try SCREEN_02, It'll be easier
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| 13:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren/EAG: that's correct. Put the line in quotes I just typed above in to your lts.conf file below the [DEFAULT] header
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| 13:09 | <EAG> I dont have a xorg.conf at all in /opt/ltsp/i386/
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| 13:09 | <lipinski> alkisg: where do I put SCREEN_02?
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> lipinski: you may also try CONFIGURE_X=True, to see if it gets better (and if so, file a bug for X)
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| 13:09 | lipinski: in lts.conf
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| 13:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> EAG: I'll pastebot a sample xorg.conf in a moment...
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| 13:10 | <lipinski> alkisg: that goes in /var/lib/tftpboot/i386, correct? I don't have one now.
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| 13:10 | (forgot ltsp dir in the middle there)
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> lipinski: yes, there
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| 13:10 | <EAG> _UsUrPeR_: I'll just copy my regular one
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| 13:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> EAG: that'll work too
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| 13:11 | <Blinny> lipinski: Make sure you have at least a [Default] section.
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| 13:11 | <EAG> weird that I didnt have one already though
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| 13:11 | in /opt..
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| 13:11 | but that may explain the default-crap
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| 13:13 | if you can paste a sample lts.conf I
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| 13:13 | I would be happy
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| 13:14 | _UsUrPeR_:
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> lipinski, EAG: you may have an example lts.conf there: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client-core/examples/lts.conf
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| 13:14 | <EAG> ok
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> also,
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| 13:14 | ajohnson has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:14 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 13:14 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "lts.conf" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf
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| 13:14 | <EAG> I'll take a look
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> Can anyone think of any reason why iTalc won't connect to one specific TC with an IP of x.x.x.103 but does connect if I change it to x.x.x.109 ????!!! I'm using NIC bonding, but I can't think of any reason why this is happening...
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| 13:15 | <Blinny> alkisg: Is there another terminal in another subnet that has x.x.y.103 ?
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| 13:15 | <alkisg> Blinny: no..
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| 13:15 | Lns has quit IRC | |
| 13:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> eag: gimme a moment
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| 13:17 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: /etc/cups/printers.conf right?
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| 13:17 | <alkisg> Blinny: I was thinking maybe it's a ports thing (127.0.0.1:10103), but I couldn't see any difference from the other 7 PCs...
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| 13:17 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "lts.conf for EAG" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/127
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| 13:19 | <lipinski> alkisg: SCREEN_02=shell stopped the flickering, but now I can't login - it won't accept any of my users.
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| 13:20 | <Blinny> alkisg: I have multiple NICs/subnets and I have to use the IP of the NIC facing the client in the address.
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| 13:20 | <EAG> _UsUrPeR_: thx
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| 13:20 | <alkisg> lipinski, the users are local to the chroot, so only a local root exists
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| 13:20 | lipinski: chroot and then sudo passwd to activate it, then ltsp-update-image
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| 13:21 | Blinny: I only have one subnet, and with the bonding I only have 1 IP on the server... There's really nothing different from the other 7 PCs (it's a simple 8 PC lab), so I'm at a loss...
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| 13:22 | <Blinny> alkisg: Then I am too.
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| 13:22 | <alkisg> Blinny: thanks anyway, I thought it was my fault somehow for not getting it!!!
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| 13:22 | Blinny: I'll just change all of them to .11x instead of .10x.... go figure.
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| 13:23 | <warren> anyone got old ppc imacs to netboot?
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| 13:23 | I'm being told that only G4 silver and newer can netboot Linux
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| 13:23 | BrunoXLambert has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:23 | <warren> but that doesn't sound correct
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| 13:24 | <johnny> warren, i heard they could too
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| 13:24 | i wasn't successful and gave up
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| 13:24 | but that was cuz i didn't feel like messing with yaboot
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| 13:25 | i just got rid of the slow imacs
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| 13:25 | and replaced with with other donated pcs
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| 13:26 | laga has left #ltsp | |
| 13:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: X_ options still a no-go in Fedora atm, correct?
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| 13:27 | warren: pertaining to lts.conf
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| 13:27 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: yes
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| 13:27 | _UsUrPeR_: X_CONF is the only supported thing
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| 13:28 | <EAG> is this pointless: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/NvidiaLtsp411 ?
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| 13:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> eag: You are using ltsp 5, correct?
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| 13:29 | <EAG> yep,
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| 13:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> yeah, it's not going to help you much. :/
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| 13:29 | <EAG> :(
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| 13:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> what's going on with your client right now
| |
| 13:29 | ?
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| 13:30 | <EAG> I am locked to 800x600
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| 13:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> after you added the lts.conf and xorg.conf, that is?
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| 13:30 | <EAG> didnt help much
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| 13:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> on the client, on boot, hit ctrl+alt+F4
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| 13:31 | in there, head into /var/log/X.???.log and see what video driver it's loading
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| 13:31 | <EAG> ok, I'll do that
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| 13:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> also, did you install the nvidia drivers in the chroot?
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| 13:32 | I need some help altering ltsp-localappsd. Anyone mind lending me an ear for a moment?
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| 13:32 | <EAG> well, no,
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| 13:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> eag: first thing's first then
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| 13:33 | <EAG> yep, if you have a suggestion on how to do it I'll be happy :)
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| 13:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> do you have the current NVIDIA-Linux-x86.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx-pkg1.run file?
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| 13:33 | gotta have that in order to install
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| 13:33 | <EAG> yup, I'll download it
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| 13:34 | but running that one wont screw up my "normal" install?
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| 13:34 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: /etc/cups/printers.conf is what you need in rwtab?
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| 13:34 | <EAG> I am running ltsp on top of my regular ubuntu-desktop (which I will continue using)
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> EAG, which version? 8.10?
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| 13:35 | <EAG> 8.04
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| 13:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: yes. files /etc/cups/client.conf
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| 13:35 | <EAG> I am going to pxe-boot some (or at least one) client with this 8.04-desktop as a server
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> EAG, maybe it doesn't correctly detect your monitor timings, and you may force it with X_HORZSYNC etc...
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| 13:36 | <Blinny> Holy crap. http://htop.sourceforge.net/128.png
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| 13:36 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: oh wait, you need more than one?
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| 13:36 | <EAG> alkisg: yes, but my xorg.conf should take care of that
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| 13:36 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: or only /etc/cups/client.conf?
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| 13:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: no, just the /etc/cups/client.conf file
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| 13:36 | singular
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| 13:36 | <EAG> edid from my CRT isnt working correctly..
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| 13:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: everything worked after that
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> EAG: you've put it to the chroot, updated the image, and put an lts.conf entry? What do you get if you do "getltscfg X_HORZSYNC" in the clients?
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| 13:37 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 13:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> EAG: did you just want a larger resolution, or were you looking for glx support on the client?
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| 13:42 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: just to be clear, cups installed in the chroot is for what exactly?
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| 13:43 | EAG: the nv driver really doesn't work for you? 3D on a client really isn't that useful
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| 13:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: jetpipe/printing directly to a printer attached to a client through a java command invoking lp -d on the client
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| 13:43 | run on sentence +1
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| 13:44 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: oh, so specifically localapp printing
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| 13:44 | ?
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| 13:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: yep
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| 13:44 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: I think I will need to split off a local app client package at some point. the local app stuff is pulling in far too much crap.
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| 13:45 | for now I can't safely add cups to the default install list
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| 13:45 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: definitely prudent.
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| 13:45 | <warren> avahi and cups daemons complicate matters for a normal client
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| 13:46 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:46 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "another lts.conf for EAG" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/128
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| 13:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> EAG: give that a shot instead
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| 13:47 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: doesn't your company sell LTSP tech support? =)
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| 13:47 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 13:47 | * alkisg has something very broken in his laptop... X crashes randomly | |
| 13:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: Philanthropy is it's own reward sometimes...
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| 13:48 | other times it may get me fired ;)
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| 13:49 | warren: mind giving me a few hints on adding some case statements to my ltsp-localappsd client daemon?
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| 13:49 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: I bill at $0/hr
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| 13:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> then you, sir, are hired
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| 13:50 | <warren> hurray! I got a job in this crummy economy.
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| 13:50 | do I get health care?
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| 13:50 | _UsUrPeR_: paste what you have
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| 13:50 | <_UsUrPeR_> gimme a second to paste.
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| 13:50 | <Q-FUNK> heh
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| 13:52 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: btw, are you folks active in the upstream openchrome dev? at least testing and reporting?
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| 13:52 | _UsUrPeR_: your company seems very reliant on openchrome not sucking
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| 13:53 | _UsUrPeR_: when Alex and Ron came to the hackfest I suggested I not receive the latest dual monitor thin client since I wouldn't be useful in the driver dev
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| 13:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: no reported bugs yet, but I am building a mental queue. I have bigger fish to fry atm
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| 13:55 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: there is ONE guy in Red Hat that would be especially awesome to get via hardware to that would be helpful, but he's in Australia.
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| 13:55 | _UsUrPeR_: well, your DVI needing manual config options thing is a bug
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| 13:55 | <CAN-o-SPAM> warren: whose that
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| 13:55 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: David Airlie
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| 13:56 | CAN-o-SPAM: see if you can get your supplier in Asia to send him stuff directly, might be cheaper to ship
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| 13:56 | <_UsUrPeR_> We can hire him for $0/hr too :D
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| 13:56 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: as usual, no guarantees that we can fix anything in particular, but things get fixed faster when he has hardware
| |
| 13:57 | <CAN-o-SPAM> warren: can you faciliate some sort of introduced conversation between him and myself?
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| 13:57 | <warren> he almost single handedly got most newer radeon modesetting and 3D working
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| 13:57 | CAN-o-SPAM: he's too busy for that...
| |
| 13:57 | CAN-o-SPAM: he's a bit nicer than other X devs though...
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| 13:58 | <CAN-o-SPAM> warren: how am i going to send a guy some hardware and not talk to him?
| |
| 13:58 | * CAN-o-SPAM is confused. | |
| 13:58 | <warren> well, his timezone is opposite side of planet from you
| |
| 13:58 | <CAN-o-SPAM> it's a good thing us youngin's like to howl at the moon ...
| |
| 13:58 | <warren> get off my lawn!
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| 13:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> lol
| |
| 13:59 | * warren is getting old. | |
| 13:59 | <warren> I am not enjoying video games anymore.
| |
| 13:59 | time to just give up
| |
| 13:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> that's sad
| |
| 13:59 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: where is your paste?
| |
| 14:00 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: I over-wrote my case stuff. flpxj
| |
| 14:00 | * _UsUrPeR_ is looking | |
| 14:00 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: let me talk to him privately first
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| 14:00 | CAN-o-SPAM: i'll get back to you
| |
| 14:01 | CAN-o-SPAM: but really, this shouldn't be your company's responsibilty to get the X driver working properly, VIA should be paying for this hardware to send to X developers.
| |
| 14:01 | CAN-o-SPAM: well... VIA actually is paying Harald now... but it could go faster with other key developers with hardware
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| 14:01 | <lipinski> alkisg: I can finally log into the client as a user, but can't do anything as root - I have added the user to sudo group, but to no avail.
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| 14:01 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
| 14:02 | <lipinski> alkisg: I set a root passwd, but it tells me the account is expired
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> lipinski: duh... it's another hardy bug, you need to unlock the root account
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| 14:02 | Anyone remembers the command? change age or something?
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| 14:03 | <CAN-o-SPAM> warren: any contacts at VIA by chance?
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| 14:03 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: well... Harald
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| 14:03 | <lipinski> alkisg: FWIW - This is Intrepid/8.10
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| 14:03 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: Harald is upstream kernel, X and now VIA representative
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| 14:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: can't find old failed stuff. I'll copy-pasta what I have working for a single function...
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> lipinski: really? I thought it was fixed in intrepid (but I always build the image with ltsp-build-image --prompt-rootpass, the bug doesn't occur then...)
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| 14:04 | lipinski: chroot and then chage <somethink, maybe it was -1?>
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| 14:04 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: http://lwn.net/Articles/308234/ this most recent news is very promising. Harald has been steadily helping VIA to open up, cooperate with the community and suck less.
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| 14:05 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "ltsp-locapappsd examples" (64 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/129
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| 14:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> locapappsd... it's actually a medication I take....
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| 14:06 | <lipinski> alkisg: chage -E -1 root seems to be it. Rebuilding image....
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| 14:07 | alkisg: with SCREEN_02 =shell, where will I find the appropraite logs regarding no login screen and the flickering xauth message?
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| 14:07 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:07 | <alkisg> lipinski: you should try X -configure and then see the logs in /var/log/Xorg.?.log
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| 14:08 | <lipinski> alkisg: will do - thanks.
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| 14:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> lipinski: should be in /var/log/X.???.log for the flicker
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| 14:08 | <EAG> _UsUrPeR_: thx, I tried that as well, but it made no difference
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| 14:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> :/
| |
| 14:08 | <lipinski> _UsUrPeR_: I looked there, but when I set SCREEN_02=shell, there is no X*log under /var/log
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| 14:09 | <EAG> warren: no nv should be ok. I am trying that now, but it doest help either
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| 14:09 | <lipinski> hopefully X -configure will generate one.
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| 14:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> hopefully, yes
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| 14:09 | <lipinski> FYI - I tried setting XSERVER = via in lts.conf, but that didn't help the flicker problem.
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| 14:09 | <EAG> shouldnt the client "normally" find all resolutions supported by the monitors?
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| 14:10 | I know my crt is crap so it is very likely the problem here...
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| 14:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: so what I am thinking is an if then for the LTSP_COMMAND line. If $1 = lp, it works. if $1 = xterm, it works, if $1 = anything else, it does not.
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| 14:12 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: too vague, show me code with comments
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| 14:12 | _UsUrPeR_: write a new shell script with only those lines
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| 14:12 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: roger.
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> EAG: did you try "getltscfg X_HORZSYNC" on the client? My X crashed and I didn't see if you answered...
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| 14:12 | <EAG> ah no, I forgot you sorry ;)
| |
| 14:13 | I am checking now
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> EAG, and I'm not sure if it makes any difference, but I have X_HORZSYNC=30-70 without quotes on my lts.conf.
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| 14:14 | <EAG> hmm apparently I cant install that program
| |
| 14:14 | <alkisg> EAG, it's already installed
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| 14:14 | It's on the chroot.
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| 14:14 | You have to boot a terminal, logon into it, and then run the command
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| 14:15 | <EAG> I am in the terminal now
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> EAG, you have ubuntu 8.04 and no getltscfg?
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| 14:15 | <EAG> yup
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> On the thin client?
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| 14:16 | <EAG> mm
| |
| 14:16 | I am using the thin client now as we speak
| |
| 14:16 | (not the irc-client though)
| |
| 14:17 | getltscfg
| |
| 14:17 | The program 'getltscfg' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
| |
| 14:17 | <alkisg> In the server, it should be in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/bin/getltscfg ... I don't know why it isn't there in yours.
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| 14:17 | <EAG> sudo apt-get install ltsp-client-core
| |
| 14:18 | ./getltscfg X_HORZSYNC
| |
| 14:18 | Error retrieving file stats for file [/etc/lts.conf]: No such file or directory
| |
| 14:18 | weird...
| |
| 14:18 | it should read from the lts.conf in /var/lib/tftp.. right?
| |
| 14:18 | <alkisg> EAG, when a thin client boots, it transfers lts.conf to /etc/ via tftp
| |
| 14:19 | EAG, but your TC doesn't, and I think you should solve this problem first....
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| 14:20 | <EAG> to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc?
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| 14:20 | or /etc
| |
| 14:20 | <alkisg> EAG, on the server, it's on /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
| |
| 14:21 | When the thin client boots, it transfers it to /etc/lts.conf
| |
| 14:21 | <EAG> ok, yeah.. something isnt working then
| |
| 14:21 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "For warren" (85 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/130
| |
| 14:21 | <lipinski> alkisg: X -configure worked fine - it created /root/xorg.conf.new and I tested it with X -config /root/xorg.conf.new - and got the black & white screen with the X mouse pointer
| |
| 14:21 | <alkisg> lipinski: then use it... :)
| |
| 14:22 | lipinski: copy it to the chroot, and put an X_CONF=... in lts.conf
| |
| 14:22 | (and update image...)
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| 14:22 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: SOMETHING=somethingelse sets SOMETHING variable to contain somethingelse
| |
| 14:23 | _UsUrPeR_: put a space on both sides of =
| |
| 14:23 | _UsUrPeR_: also wrap the entire thing in [ ]
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| 14:23 | <EAG> this mess makes me sick :(
| |
| 14:23 | <rjune> warren do you know ogra's email address?
| |
| 14:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: is $1 the proper variable passed from ltsp_localapps?\
| |
| 14:24 | <warren> rjune: just commit something that relies on bash syntax into ltsp-trunk, he'll contact you within a few minutes, much faster to get his attention that way.
| |
| 14:24 | <johnny> lol
| |
| 14:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> heh
| |
| 14:24 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: what script is this?
| |
| 14:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: ltsp_localappsd
| |
| 14:25 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: then no
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| 14:25 | rjune: ogra@ ?
| |
| 14:26 | * _UsUrPeR_ looks at ltsp_localapps | |
| 14:26 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: so it's $LTSP_COMMAND then?
| |
| 14:26 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: if [ "$STRINGVARIABLE" = "something" ]; then
| |
| 14:26 | this is a more proper syntax
| |
| 14:26 | put the variable you are testing on the left
| |
| 14:27 | _UsUrPeR_: appears so, yes.
| |
| 14:27 | * _UsUrPeR_ gives this a shot | |
| 14:29 | <rjune> warren: while that might work, he's on a plane over the atlantic
| |
| 14:30 | captain_magnus is now known as bitfinder | |
| 14:30 | bitfinder is now known as captain_magnus | |
| 14:31 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: you still here?
| |
| 14:32 | * CAN-o-SPAM waves. | |
| 14:32 | airlied has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:32 | <warren> airlied: hey
| |
| 14:33 | <airlied> hey.
| |
| 14:33 | <warren> First some introductions
| |
| 14:34 | CAN-o-SPAM here works for disklessworkstations.com, a small American company that sells diskless netboot clients. They founded LTSP a decade ago and funded a lot of the community development.
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| 14:34 | airlied: they are pretty heavily dependent on VIA chipsets
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| 14:34 | airlied: so it is up to them to either send you stuff directly, or from Asia, or convince VIA or Harald Welte to send you stuff.
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| 14:35 | airlied: the other possibility here might help you with your dev & testing of all other chipsets
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| 14:35 | airlied: LTSP framework included in Fedora since F9 might allow you to more rapidly test new builds of X, kernels and drivers on a wide variety of your boxes.
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| 14:36 | airlied: just drop new builds into chroots and reboot your machines that PXE boot from that chroot
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| 14:36 | <airlied> I'd be happy to have a few different variants running Fedora so we can play about, I'm hoping to get a private network segment at some point
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| 14:36 | so I can do my own PXE server.
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| 14:36 | <CAN-o-SPAM> hi airlied
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| 14:36 | <airlied> at the moment my lab is beholden to the IS people.
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| 14:36 | I talked to VIA at LPC but I've totally forgotten the guys name.
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| 14:36 | CAN-o-SPAM: hey.
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| 14:36 | <warren> airlied: following my guide you can have an isolated network segment booting diskless clients within minutes.
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| 14:37 | <CAN-o-SPAM> airlied: you are a developer for Red Hat right?
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| 14:37 | <airlied> CAN-o-SPAM: yes.
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| 14:37 | <warren> airlied: LTSP tools in F9 and F10 can install Fedora (and soon RHEL5) chroots and make them netboot real easy.
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| 14:38 | <airlied> CAN-o-SPAM: mainly working on Intel/ATI but any graphics hw I have I attempt to keep working.
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| 14:38 | <CAN-o-SPAM> airlied: have you worked with any VIA yet?
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| 14:39 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: I think he's suggesting he can only work on stuff if he has hardware.
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| 14:39 | <airlied> CAN-o-SPAM: not recently, I played with some in my last job for a while.
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| 14:39 | <CAN-o-SPAM> right ...
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| 14:39 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: I personally have been able to get kernel and netboot stuff working real well on everything you sent me, but I have only been able to facilitate working with X developers on the X issues, which has been slow.
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| 14:40 | CAN-o-SPAM: (although hardware in my office has the double benefit of being tested for both LTSP and Qumranet thin clients)
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| 14:41 | CAN-o-SPAM: so uh... talk to your supplier in Asia and Harald Welte, try to get VIA to send airlied hardware now, and new stuff as it comes out.
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| 14:41 | <airlied> Harald knows me, and so those some guy in VIA.
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| 14:41 | <warren> good
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| 14:41 | <airlied> I really wish I remembed his name, we talked for 2 hours at LPC
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| 14:41 | <CAN-o-SPAM> airlied: would you mind e-mailing me your contact information?
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| 14:41 | <airlied> CAN-o-SPAM: no worries.
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| 14:42 | <warren> airlied: let me know when you want to setup your own isolated netboot network segment
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| 14:42 | <airlied> warren: will do.
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| 14:42 | <warren> airlied: I really think this can speed your general dev/testing
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| 14:42 | with other hardware
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| 14:42 | <CAN-o-SPAM> airlied: alexc@disklessworkstations.com
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| 14:42 | <warren> airlied: I already got kernel modesetting driver loading into F10 mkinitrd for netboot.
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| 14:43 | <airlied> warren: cool, I'd like to do some kms for via as well.
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| 14:43 | <warren> airlied: if the kernel supports a new chipset for modesetting, it will automatically pull it into the initrd and netboot will do it even before it mounts the remote rootfs.
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| 14:43 | airlied: due to limitations non-netboot wont do this yet
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| 14:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: new iteration. This appears to freeze X when I log on to the client. Mouse still moves, the wallpaper loads, but that's about it
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| 14:50 | <warren> hmm
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| 14:50 | _UsUrPeR_: GNOME?
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| 14:50 | _UsUrPeR_: same freeze if you log into KDE or something else?
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| 14:50 | you might be hitting a GNOME bug
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| 14:50 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "for warren pt deux" (78 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/131
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| 14:50 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: yes, gnome
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| 14:51 | warren: lemme try KDE
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| 14:51 | warren: waitaminute, I don't have KDE installed on this server...
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| 14:51 | <warren> XFCE? twm?
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| 14:51 | anything non-GNOME
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| 14:52 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: booting now. I don't believe this anything but... yeah, just failsafe and gnome :/
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| 14:53 | I can't quite add a new windows manager tot his either...
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| 14:53 | <nubae> to unlock root account simply do #
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| 14:53 | <warren> failsafe I think wont test it properly
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| 14:54 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: it logs in properly if you restore the original script?
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| 14:54 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: I think your comparisons of LTSP_COMMAND will not do what you expect
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| 14:54 | _UsUrPeR_: "xterm " != "xterm" for example
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| 14:55 | airlied: do you think you can re-establish communication with Harald Welte yourself?
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| 14:55 | since you already met him?
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| 14:56 | <CAN-o-SPAM> were gunna get these VIA guys all straigtened out
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| 14:56 | they better get ahold of this Linux market before nobody buys VIA anymore
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| 14:56 | <warren> The Linux market is likely their only chance against Atom
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| 14:57 | <CAN-o-SPAM> airlied: thanks for your participation i will see what i can do to get you some HW to help! hopefully we can have a nice roundtable with VIA as well
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| 14:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: if I replace the LTSP_COMMAND=$(echo "${LTSP_COMMAND}"|sed -e 's/^LTSP_COMMAND = //' -e 's/^"//' -e 's/"$//') with "LTSP_COMMAND=<some program>" it will only run that program when invoked. I figured I'd give the opportunity to invoke a few programs.
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| 14:58 | but only those few programs
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| 14:58 | <airlied> warren: yeah I could give him a shout as well.
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| 14:58 | <warren> airlied: thanks
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| 15:06 | <nobios> hi there...
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| 15:07 | I'm having some trouble making some old machines working in ltsp-5 with ubuntu
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| 15:08 | they're working, but we have to wait a lot of time after receiving the nbi.img file
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| 15:08 | <vagrantc> what's the processor speed, ram, etc. on the thin clients?
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| 15:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: rebooted client, client comes back now
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| 15:09 | <nobios> k6 2 500mhz with 64 mb ram
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| 15:10 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: so you are implementing a whitelist?
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| 15:10 | <vagrantc> nobios: a little shy on ram ... but i'd like to think that would be sufficient...
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| 15:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: correct
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| 15:10 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: I suppose a whitelist is something we want upstream...
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| 15:10 | <nobios> vagrantc: I have one with 128mb and having the same "problem"
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| 15:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: bawww, seriously? That would be sweet.
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| 15:11 | <warren> vagrantc: do you agree a LTSP_COMMAND whitelist would be good upstream?
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| 15:12 | _UsUrPeR_: the complication would be long commands like the lp thing you want
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| 15:12 | <vagrantc> warren: sounds like an excellent feature.
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| 15:12 | <nobios> I changed some values in pxelinux.cfg/default but didn't help either
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| 15:12 | <warren> vagrantc: LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST unset by default, if unset no restrictions. If set, then only those are allowed?
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| 15:13 | <vagrantc> warren: seems simple enough.
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| 15:13 | warren: implemented in the ltsp-localappsd, yes?
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| 15:13 | <warren> ok, then multi-word whitelist members make this difficult...
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| 15:13 | vagrantc: yes
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| 15:13 | <vagrantc> multi-word is very difficult, yes.
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| 15:13 | <warren> vagrantc: any thoughts about whitelist syntax?
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| 15:13 | perhaps colon separated members?
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| 15:14 | <vagrantc> i generally prefer commas
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| 15:14 | though should we really be concerned about whitespace in linux commands?
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| 15:14 | <warren> vagrantc: we want something that is not a valid command shell character...
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| 15:14 | <vagrantc> how many people are stupid enough to implement a command with whitespace in it?
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| 15:14 | * warren points at _UsUrPeR_ | |
| 15:14 | <warren> =)
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| 15:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> wat
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> oh, commands with options and such?
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| 15:15 | <warren> yes
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| 15:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> vagrantc: yeah.
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 15:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> xterm -e and whatnot
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> then i'd say go for commas, unless there's a good reason not to
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| 15:15 | <warren> although, to make this simpler and easier to secure, perhaps the whitelist should allow ONLY single word members.
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah, that would be really simple.
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| 15:16 | <warren> and you need to have your own shell script in the chroot
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| 15:16 | <vagrantc> admins can write scripts client-side if they need special options
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| 15:16 | <warren> for complicated commands
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| 15:16 | /usr/bin/DOWHATIWANT
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| 15:17 | <nobios> be right back
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| 15:17 | <warren> vagrantc: err, how do you tokenize in sh?
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| 15:18 | <vagrantc> warren: tokenize?
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| 15:18 | <warren> vagrantc: substring with delimiters
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| 15:18 | one:two:three:four
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| 15:18 | one
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| 15:18 | two
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| 15:18 | three
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| 15:18 | four
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| 15:18 | etc.
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| 15:19 | vagrantc: err... I suppose there isn't any good reason not to allow spaces
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| 15:19 | <vagrantc> that's what i'm inclined to think.
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| 15:20 | <warren> but I still don't know a good way to tokenize
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| 15:20 | <vagrantc> i'm not quite getting what you mean...
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| 15:20 | maybe looping through the whitelist?
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| 15:20 | <warren> vagrantc: you have a shell string "one!two!three!four"
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| 15:20 | you need to substring with a delimiter !
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> IFS or cut or awk ...
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| 15:21 | no?
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| 15:21 | <warren> vagrantc: hmm... commas could be a valid command
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> warren: in theory, or in reality?
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| 15:22 | <warren> vagrantc: it will catch someone by surprise one day and it will be a bug in LTSP
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| 15:22 | vagrantc: commas are used in media processing apps commonly
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| 15:22 | image and movie manipulation
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| 15:22 | <vagrantc> a command named "foo,bar" ?
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| 15:22 | <warren> no no
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| 15:22 | vagrantc: if we allow multi-word commands
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| 15:22 | if we don't allow multi-word commands then we dont need to worry about our choice of delimiter
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| 15:23 | * vagrantc prefers that option | |
| 15:23 | <warren> well.... filenames can have commas..
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| 15:23 | <vagrantc> and :
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| 15:23 | <warren> yeah
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| 15:23 | <vagrantc> and ! is not very useable.
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| 15:24 | <warren> I'm told that the only characters disallowed in filenames are / and \0
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| 15:24 | neither of which we can use
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| 15:24 | <vagrantc> when choosing a delimiter, there will be *some* problem someday with someone who can't use that delimeter.
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| 15:24 | we just need to document that limitation and try not to choose one that's obviously bad all the time
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| 15:25 | <warren> I suppose commas are OK.
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| 15:25 | <vagrantc> or just use whitespace, which is really my preferred option :)
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| 15:25 | <warren> oh
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| 15:26 | _UsUrPeR_: you ok with this? due to sh sucking and to maximize security, whitelist can only be a single word
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| 15:26 | _UsUrPeR_: so you need to drop shell scripts into your chroot to run multi-word commnads
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| 15:26 | * _UsUrPeR_ reads above. just got back to desk | |
| 15:27 | * warren tests this in dash just to appease everyone else | |
| 15:27 | <vagrantc> warren: the only other option i would see is to use a configurable delimeter, but that's getting pretty insane.
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| 15:28 | <warren> yes
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| 15:28 | you are stupid if you have an executable with a comma in it
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| 15:28 | if someone reports a bug, CLOSE STUPID
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| 15:28 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: single words, for my purposes, will be fine. I can just create a script pertaining to complicated commands
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| 15:29 | <vagrantc> actually....
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| 15:29 | we could just match against the first part of the command ... i.e. "xterm -e" would be allowed if "xterm" was in the whitelist.
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| 15:30 | and if they want to restrict allowable options, they'd have to use a script
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| 15:31 | <vagrantc> course, then we have to watch for things like ... xterm -e ; su - xterm
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| 15:31 | or whatever.
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| 15:31 | maybe that's even a hole in the code right now ...
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| 15:32 | <warren> vagrantc: not really, if someone wants to use a whitelist, then they are paranoid
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| 15:32 | <warren> vagrantc: you don't want to pass arbitrary options after a whitelisted command
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| 15:33 | well .... hmmm
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> just trying to explore all the options...
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| 15:33 | <nobios> hello again...
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> for ultimate paranoia, running a custom script is the only sane option.
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| 15:33 | <warren> vagrantc: another option would be to pass the entire string to be executed to /usr/bin/localapps-launch
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> well, i guess that's shy of ultimate...
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| 15:34 | <warren> vagrantc: /usr/bin/localapps-launch can do its own policy decisions and leave LTSP out of it
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| 15:34 | <vagrantc> warren: or a LOCALAPP_LAUNCHER ?
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| 15:34 | <warren> LOCAL_APPS_LAUNCHER unset by default
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| 15:34 | if defined use it
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| 15:34 | don't execute directly
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| 15:35 | <johnny> but don't take away the rights of people who are not so paranoid :)
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| 15:35 | <warren> vagrantc: the thing is, I'm not entirely sure how to protect from things like:
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| 15:35 | <nobios> vagrantc: I tested a p3 750 mhz with 256 mb.. and still the same waiting occurs
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| 15:35 | <warren> exec /usr/bin/my-localapps-launcher foobar baz; do something evil here
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> nobios: not quite sure what your problem is ... i have to get back to work soon
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| 15:36 | <warren> johnny: whitelist or filtering wont be enabled at all if you don't enable it
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| 15:36 | <vagrantc> warren: run it su'ed and quoted like we do now? so the "; evil" would be contained?
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| 15:36 | <warren> vagrantc: whitelisting without any option to pass options would make it impossible to do things like:
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| 15:36 | ltsp-localapps /usr/bin/gimp /home/username/something.png
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| 15:37 | <lipinski> How unsecure is LDX_DIRECTX = true?
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| 15:37 | <warren> lipinski: completely insecure
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| 15:37 | lipinski: anybody packet sniffing can see everything that happens and everything you type
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| 15:37 | <vagrantc> well, the password still goes over ssh :)
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| 15:37 | <lipinski> Any other ideas how to speed up responsiveness of clients that are connected to the server via wireless?
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| 15:37 | <warren> lipinski: the only protected thing is your initial name and password since that is ssh. everything you do afterward is unprotected.
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| 15:38 | <warren> lipinski: wireless is not recommended for exactly that reason...
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| 15:38 | <lipinski> I'm stuck with wireless for a few more months, but it is very slow. Even with only 2 clients.
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> wireless LTSP is somewhat of a novelty :)
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| 15:38 | <warren> I am not aware of any wireless cards that support netboot.
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| 15:39 | although you can use wireless bridge back to ethernet and netboot over that
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| 15:39 | <lipinski> Well, I have a client connected to a wireless router which is acting like a bridge
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| 15:39 | <johnny> hmm.. perhaps a wirleess card with a mini OS ..
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| 15:39 | <lipinski> warren: exactly.
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| 15:39 | <johnny> lipinski, you could experiment with NX
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| 15:39 | <lipinski> If the wireless is encrypted - is LDM_DIRECTX still a bad idea?
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| 15:39 | johnny: what is NX?
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| 15:40 | johnny: FYI - Got my ltsp-build-client problem resolved today (if you remember from last night).
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| 15:40 | <johnny> lipinski, if you trust all your users who have access not to go snooping around.. it's not that bad
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| 15:40 | or even know how to snoop around :)
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| 15:40 | <warren> vagrantc: how exactly does su and quoted protect against ; evil?
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| 15:41 | <johnny> lipinski, look it up.. :)
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| 15:41 | <lipinski> johnny: users have no idea how to snoop - they don't even know how to get to or use a terminal. Let alone how to use a sniffer.
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| 15:41 | <johnny> nomachine
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| 15:42 | lipinski, as long as it is encrypted with WPA vs WEP with good passphrases.. it won't be much worst of a security issue than wired
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> lipinski: it's less bad, but still bad
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| 15:42 | lipinski: or more bad, if you have the delusion that you're actually secure
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| 15:42 | warren: running it as the user, so it's not run as root?
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| 15:43 | <warren> vagrantc: that still does not prevent an option to become an arbitrary command that bypasses the whitelist
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| 15:43 | <johnny> and what does..
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> warren: can we ignore everything after the ; ?
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| 15:43 | <lipinski> vagrantc: well, I'm connected to the "internet", so I never feel secure.
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| 15:43 | <warren> well, there are all sorts of other ways to run arbitrary commands
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| 15:43 | ; evil
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| 15:43 | <johnny> i think you can't go much farther than the security of the underlying system
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| 15:43 | <warren> && evil
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| 15:43 | || evil
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| 15:44 | something { evil }
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> warren: hmmm... well, we can't be perfect, only try to do a reasonably good job. :)
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| 15:44 | <johnny> i think time would be better spent hardening the system itself
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| 15:44 | <warren> right
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| 15:44 | anyway, I have a single word with no option whitelist implementation done NOW
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| 15:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: hit me up.
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| 15:45 | <johnny> _UsUrPeR_, we plan on hax0ring you anyways
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| 15:45 | <warren> I'm not happy that it disallows legitimate things like ltsp-localapps /usr/bin/gimp /home/username/something.png
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| 15:45 | <_UsUrPeR_> johnny: I would expect nothing but :)
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| 15:45 | <johnny> lol
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| 15:45 | * vagrantc disappears into the ether of freegeek | |
| 15:45 | <ltsppbot> "warren" pasted "single word whitelist demo" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/132
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| 15:46 | <warren> This would be THE most secure way of doing it.
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| 15:47 | * warren tests something else | |
| 15:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: that goes on the client? just another executable in /usr/bin/?
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| 15:48 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: that basic logic goes into localappsd to decide if it should run something
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| 15:48 | _UsUrPeR_: another option we're thinking is to add a LOCAL_APPS_LAUNCHER option that passes the entire command to it.
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| 15:48 | _UsUrPeR_: so you write your own /usr/bin/my-localapps-launcher which decides itself if a command is good or not.
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| 15:48 | I think LTSP perhaps should stay out of policy
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| 15:49 | at least this type of policy
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| 15:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: rgr.
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| 15:49 | <warren> I'm thinking
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| 15:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> this goes above the "#initialize LTSP_COMMAND as blank" line?
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| 15:50 | <warren> no
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| 15:53 | OK, I'm leaning towards the LOCAL_APPS_LAUNCHER option, and I'll supply a sample launcher script
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| 15:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> k
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| 15:55 | <warren> Whoever wrote LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT, shame on you for not documenting it.
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| 15:55 | * warren probably wrote other options that were not documented | |
| 16:01 | * _UsUrPeR_ is out for the day. | |
| 16:01 | <_UsUrPeR_> later all
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| 16:01 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: i'll e-mail hte list hwen I have something
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| 16:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> k
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| 16:14 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: crap, I found a security hole in the existing code because of you
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| 16:18 | <EAG> hmm something has gone really wrong if I end up with "(initramfs)" as a prompt right? :)
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| 16:19 | "BusyBox v1.1.3 (Debian 1.. bla bla) "
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| 16:20 | <johnny> usually i get that.. if the nic module isn't included.. or couldn't get to the dhcp or ltsp server
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| 16:20 | <EAG> ok
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| 16:21 | but this comes after ubuntu (in this case) usplash comes up
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| 16:50 | <warren> this is interesting... xatomwait is segfaulting even before it gets any command
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| 16:57 | <warren> has nobody else seen xatomwait segfault during login?
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| 17:03 | <vagrantc> warren: shame on me.
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| 17:03 | <warren> grrr
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| 17:03 | I set it to dump core
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| 17:03 | and it wont crash anymore
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| 17:04 | <vagrantc> warren: is it LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT that's segfaulting?
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| 17:04 | <warren> I don't use LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT
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| 19:21 | <warren> cyberorg: ping
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| 20:18 | <thelmara> Hi - Im using K12Linux (Fedora Core 9), following the k12 Install Guide. ltsp-build-client isnt in my $PATH, and i dont know where to find it to run it. Can anybody point me to it?
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| 22:44 | <cyberorg> warren, pong
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| 22:44 | <warren> cyberorg: you mentioned getting nxagent working a few months ago, what version of the X server was that?
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| 22:44 | * warren suspects NX is just broken with modern X | |
| 22:44 | <warren> NX is so full of fail
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| 22:45 | <ball> Is NX the non-execute bit?
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| 22:45 | <warren> ball: nomachine.com
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| 22:45 | <ball> oh.
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| 22:46 | <warren> I got nxagent to work *once* in that mode out of 20 tries
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| 22:46 | having changed nothing
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| 22:46 | cyberorg: was that i386 or x86_64?
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| 22:47 | <cyberorg> warren, it was on opensuse 11.0, i can test on 11.1 using the latest X if you want, i386
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| 22:47 | <warren> X 1.5?
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| 22:47 | It could just be broken on x86_64
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| 22:47 | cyberorg: does OpenSuSE retain the ancient /usr/X11R6 compat directory symlinks?
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| 22:48 | <warren> cyberorg: also what version of nx?
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| 22:48 | <cyberorg> warren, i have /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri.old /usr/lib/dri at the moment
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| 22:49 | <warren> that's the only thing in /usr/X11R6?
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| 22:49 | <cyberorg> /usr/X11R6/bin/xauth -> ../../bin/xauth
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| 22:49 | <warren> no font symlink?
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| 22:49 | <cyberorg> no
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| 22:50 | <cyberorg> you can check out our nx package, may be they patched it a bit
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| 22:50 | <ball> is 64M enough RAM for an X terminal?
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| 22:50 | (given local swap)?
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| 22:50 | <loather-work> that's pushing it
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| 22:50 | <warren> cyberorg: URL?
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| 22:50 | ball: just barely
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| 22:50 | <cyberorg> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/NX/openSUSE_Factory/src/
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| 22:50 | <loather-work> i wouldn't go any less than 128MB, and even then i'd want more RAM
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| 22:50 | <warren> ball: you definitely need nbd swap, and it might not be stable
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| 22:51 | <cyberorg> that is the very latest NX
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| 22:51 | <ball> Hmm... perhaps I can find another DIMM laying around here somewhere
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| 22:51 | what's nbd?
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| 22:51 | <warren> cyberorg: NX 3.3.0 was released Nov 21st
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| 22:51 | cyberorg: might want to tell your people
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| 22:52 | <cyberorg> those guys are quick, new packages will be up there soon :)
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| 22:52 | <warren> their freenx version is old
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| 22:52 | 0.7.3 was out for a long time
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| 22:59 | <cyberorg> warren, does fedora have xrdp?
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| 22:59 | <ball> warren: The box can take up to 512 Mbytes of RAM, but it's probably not worth upgrading
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| 22:59 | <warren> cyberorg: what is it?
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| 23:00 | http://xrdp.sourceforge.net/ fork of rdesktop?
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| 23:00 | <cyberorg> rdesktop would be client, xrdp server
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| 23:01 | <warren> oh
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| 23:01 | how mature is it?
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| 23:02 | <cyberorg> we are using it for nomad project http://en.opensuse.org/Nomad
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| 23:02 | it works out of box using ltsp's rdesktop script
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| 23:03 | as RDP is lightweight it might perform better than ssh
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| 23:04 | <warren> A special RDP client is provided for openSUSE that implement nomad specific extensions for X11 protocol forwarding and the ability to composite remote desktops locally when appropriate compositing manager plug-ins are loaded.
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| 23:04 | special RDP client?
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| 23:04 | <cyberorg> yeah, it gets compiz working on the client
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| 23:05 | <warren> upstream rdesktop + patches?
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| 23:05 | <cyberorg> i am not too happy with the whole thing
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| 23:05 | yes
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| 23:05 | <warren> why not happy?
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| 23:05 | <cyberorg> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/hfiguiere:/Factory/openSUSE_Factory/src/
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| 23:07 | well like a typical novell project, it is developed in house and then open sourced
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| 23:08 | <johnny> or a typical redhat project.. open sourced.. but still developed in house before distribution
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| 23:08 | * johnny pokes davidz | |
| 23:08 | <johnny> hehe
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| 23:09 | <cyberorg> few students would be joining for their college project, i would be putting them on getting local device support using ltspfs with rdesktop
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| 23:11 | <johnny> uggh.. why must evo print such an annoying mailcheck dialog
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| 23:11 | why can't it be integrated into the window..
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| 23:12 | i have evo-rss.. and it takes awhile for it to do it's thing..
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| 23:12 | <cyberorg> johnny, go in #opensuse-gnome and kick evo devs hanging there ;)
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| 23:12 | <johnny> i see it checking feeds in the status area.. yet it still has a dialog
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| 23:12 | kicking people i don't know rarely gets results
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| 23:12 | <cyberorg> i know those guys they would be happy to oblige
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| 23:12 | <johnny> like.. i can kick warren.. and he'll jump
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| 23:13 | * johnny wants to hang out with warren again | |
| 23:13 | <johnny> i need to get up to boston at some point
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| 23:13 | <warren> cyberorg: shouldn't be hard to adapt ltspfs for other uses
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| 23:14 | cyberorg: ltspfs is packaged as an independent project
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| 23:14 | as long as it is launched properly it'll work fine
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| 23:15 | <cyberorg> if there is anything else anyone wants for ltsp, let me know there are 4 students for about 3 months "slaving" for us
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| 23:15 | they would exclusively be working for this project
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| 23:16 | <warren> when do they start?
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| 23:16 | <ball> I wish I'd had a fun internship like that
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| 23:17 | <cyberorg> after 20th
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| 23:17 | <alkisg> ball, I have a lab with 64 MB RAM clients with local swap enabled (and USE_LOCAL_SWAP on lts.conf), they mostly work OK. Some of them crash once a week, I suspect it's a cabling problem though.
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| 23:18 | <ball> Looks like the machine takes PC100, so I probably have some laying around.
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| 23:19 | <warren> ball: make sure you run memtest86+ on all those machines
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| 23:19 | ball: you can run memtest86+ directly from PXE
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| 23:19 | very convenient
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| 23:20 | * ball nods | |
| 23:20 | <ball> Good idea
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| 23:21 | <warren> cyberorg: how long ago was nomad released?
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| 23:22 | <cyberorg> warren, it will make its first appearance when 11.1 is released later this month, it is around since betas
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| 23:23 | <warren> cyberorg: how well does nomad work?
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| 23:23 | cyberorg: heavy load on the server I'm guessing?
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| 23:23 | <cyberorg> it is supposed to be very lightweight, haven't tested it with a lot of clients, just locally and one client
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| 23:24 | load is supposed to be even less than xdmcp
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| 23:24 | <warren> on the client sure
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| 23:24 | but encoding is going to cause more load on the server
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| 23:24 | XDMCP does no encoding or encryption
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| 23:24 | <cyberorg> even on server, as it uses x proxy
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| 23:24 | <warren> That X proxy has to run somewhere
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| 23:24 | <cyberorg> RDP encryption is faster than ssh
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| 23:25 | <warren> XDMCP isn't ssh
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| 23:25 | but yes, RDP would be better than X over ssh
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| 23:25 | <ball> RDP as in VNC?
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| 23:25 | <cyberorg> only good test is to run real clients and see :)
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| 23:26 | <warren> ball: RDP is similar to VNC but different
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| 23:27 | <ball> Ah, I'm thinking of RFB
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| 23:27 | Is RDP what Windows Terminal Server uses?
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| 23:29 | <cyberorg> ball, yes, and it is coming to linux ;)
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| 23:30 | <ball> I know there's been a client for a while.
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| 23:31 | ...the server would be new though
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| 23:31 | I'm tempted to use X, but afaik there's no session mobility
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| 23:32 | <johnny> yeah. i wish there was "screen" for X
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| 23:32 | <warren> there is
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| 23:32 | several
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| 23:32 | of varying levels of quality
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| 23:32 | <johnny> warren, there is?
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| 23:32 | <warren> johnny: Xvnc -query localhost -and-other-options
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| 23:32 | <johnny> if any of them were any good.. they'd be included with ltsp..
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| 23:33 | not vnc..
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| 23:33 | <warren> they are not implemented in persistent mode in LTSP for various reasons
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| 23:33 | including most suck
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| 23:33 | or they require a TON of RAM on the server so are infeasible
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| 23:33 | <ball> VNC != X11
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| 23:33 | <warren> there were several X proxies implemented over the years
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| 23:33 | NX has a persistent proxy mode
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| 23:36 | <cyberorg> warren, nomad does the session preserving too, so users can just switch off their terminal
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| 23:36 | <warren> and you're telling me that doesn't cause extra load on the server?
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| 23:39 | <cyberorg> warren, thing is that no one has done any benchmarks against NX yet, so we wont know :)
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| 23:39 | <warren> that isn't surprising
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| 23:39 | NX is broken
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| 23:57 | <warren> OH!
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| 23:57 | <warren> I figured out why it is broken
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| 23:59 | <cyberorg> why?
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| 23:59 | <warren> cyberorg: the script that guy posted to the list is broken
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| 23:59 | cyberorg: nxagent ..... &
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| 23:59 | exec gnome-session
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| 23:59 | guess what happens?
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