IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 October 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:11 | <cyberorg> ogra, the patch is not committed by anyone from suse, it was sent on the ML for review with the information that we have that patch in our packages
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| 00:16 | <cyberorg> the first patch sent by lejo was http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=122023751719521&w=2
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| 00:17 | improvement by Ryan52 http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=122024616714272&w=2
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| 00:21 | * Ryan52 asks the dumb question of the day. What problems did my patch cause? | |
| 00:41 | <cyberorg> Ryan52, nothing, it fixed our input field, but made ubuntu's quite jumpy :)
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| 00:42 | ogra, is pissed because he thinks it is some evil plan from novell to mess his ldm up :D
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| 00:47 | <Ryan52> it seemed to not cause any problems on debian...
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| 00:49 | * Ryan52 continues to not see jumpyness | |
| 00:54 | <cyberorg> Ryan52, works fine on suse too, haven't seen anyone from fedora complain either
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| 00:55 | <Ryan52> maybe ubuntu and fedora and debian and gentoo and suse (and if somebody starts saying that suse is a fork or whatever, get over it) should all make their themes easily accessibly (preferably in the same place) so that code changes can be tested with them all...
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| 01:06 | <johnny> Ryan52 that'd be too easy
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| 01:06 | lol
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| 01:06 | Ryan52, we don't even have a theme yet
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| 01:06 | <Ryan52> heh. ya.
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| 01:06 | <johnny> so no worries from us
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| 01:07 | what i'd like tho.. is to see the default theme cleaned up
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| 01:07 | so we can just focus on that
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| 01:07 | i don't think we plan on making one
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| 01:07 | if somebody does tho.. i'll let you know :)
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| 01:09 | <cyberorg> Ryan52, isn't that exactly a point of posting patch on the dev ML?
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| 01:15 | <Ryan52> yes, the place where it seemingly got ignored...
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| 01:20 | * johnny == hungry | |
| 01:21 | <johnny> our store is currently closed.. but luckily i have keys.. :)
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| 01:21 | the benefits of collective ownership.. :)
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| 04:52 | <ogra> cyberorg, did i blame suse in any way ?
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| 04:54 | <ogra> all i'm upset about is that six themes broke for me two days before final release freeze in ubuntu so apparently the change wasnt tested carefully enough before being committed ... such changes should stay in a separate branch until they have been tested enough and the code is simply bad
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| 04:54 | <cyberorg> was responding to "ogra> but breaking themes for 5 distros to make one work that refuses to go with the standard is just not nice"
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| 04:55 | didn't want to break anything, just that wide logo we used exposed this issue for us
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| 04:55 | <ogra> right, and i'm fine if we get a fix for that
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| 04:55 | <ogra> but one that doesnt break it for anyone else
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| 04:56 | <cyberorg> ogra, didnt know it ended upstream, that patch is applied to our package only, was posted on the ML so the problem can be found and solved if there was any
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| 04:56 | <ogra> the current code should work with any centered logo, do you use yours non centered ?
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| 04:57 | <cyberorg> ogra, logo is centered, it is just too wide
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| 04:57 | <ogra> wider than the screen ?
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| 04:57 | <nubae> cyberorg: I got ejabberd working, but still some weird stuff going on, connects sometimes to other clients for sharing activities, but most of the time it doesn'T
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| 04:58 | <cyberorg> ogra, it is 1280x250 pixels
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| 04:58 | so in some cases it will be wider than screen
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| 04:59 | <ogra> cyberorg, and you see the misplacement of the input field always or only on screens smaller than 1280 ?
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| 05:00 | <cyberorg> ogra, it is always on right hand side of the screen
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| 05:00 | see the first patch, lejo commented just one line from greeter, that fixed it, but the label was not centered, Ryan52's patch fixed that as well
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| 05:01 | <ogra> i think i have the proper fix, but no time to take care before friday
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| 05:01 | it will be exactly one line that needs to change
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| 05:03 | <cyberorg> cool, no hurry for me, i can only test after beta3 is out, ldm does not launch at all, X -configure is broken on nvidia, aufs is missing nfs support and many other minor problems
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| 05:04 | nubae, it must work all the time, this is linux :)
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| 05:06 | <ogra> cyberorg, i think the nv driver just gets a fix for that upstream
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| 05:06 | <nubae> yeah its weird... trying to fix the problem, but running out of ideas... I'll write up how to get ejabberd working and maybe u can see if it works on suse
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| 05:07 | <cyberorg> ogra, great, so at least one issue less to bother :)
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| 05:07 | nubae, sure
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| 05:17 | * nubae wonders if anything needs to be added to the client chroot for sharing, as telepathy presence server works over dbus | |
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| 05:23 | <ogra> oh
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| 05:23 | * ogra just saw slashdot | |
| 05:23 | <ogra> http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24490953-15306,00.html
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| 05:24 | <nubae> "like those packaged under Edubuntu."
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| 05:24 | wonder what that means
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| 05:26 | <ogra> apparetnly that the au govt looked at edubuntu
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| 05:28 | <nubae> but they mention redhat
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| 05:30 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, hey
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| 05:31 | nubae, the text mentions redhat, the politician mentioned edubuntu in a speech
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| 05:42 | <Q-FUNK> hey :)
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| 05:42 | <ogra> Q-FUNK, we're just looking at geode vs nsc in #ubuntu-mobile and i might tell lool rubbish :)
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| 05:44 | he wants to know a) how likely it is that we ever see geode based netbooks and b) whats the difference between nsc and geode, i couls need some help from someone with more knowledge :)
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| 05:46 | <nubae> cyberorg: http://www.nubae.com/sugar-on-ltsp-ubuntu-intrepid-ibex
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| 05:47 | * nubae has a feeling he needs Network Manager back to make the sharing work | |
| 05:47 | <nubae> ugh
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| 05:48 | <cyberorg> nubae, thanks, bookmarked it, will test as soon as i can
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| 05:48 | <ogra> olpc relies massively on NM
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| 05:48 | so probably their software as well
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| 05:48 | <nubae> I know :-(
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| 05:49 | <ogra> if you have cleanly uninstalled the pre-version it shoudnt do no harm to your setup now
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| 05:49 | just dont touch the config file
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| 05:49 | <nubae> isnt there somewhere that shows how to properly set it up if you had /etc/network/interfaces method before?
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| 05:50 | <ogra> it wont touch any static devices in /etc/network/interfaces
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| 05:50 | by default
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| 05:50 | <nubae> ok, I'll give it a try...
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| 05:52 | <ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs doesnt have any bad NM bugs anymore that could affect you
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| 05:54 | <nubae> by default it says networking disabled
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| 05:54 | do i have to set it on managed mode for it to work... I assume sugar needs that
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| 05:57 | <ogra> no
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| 05:57 | do touch the config
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| 05:57 | *dont
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| 05:57 | managed means it will mangle your /e/n/i
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| 05:58 | which is exactly what you dont want
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| 05:58 | /e/n/i should be handled by ifup/down as before
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| 05:58 | only non static devices should be handled by NM now
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| 05:58 | until ifup/down can be completely replaced
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| 06:30 | * ogra tags ldm | |
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| 06:38 | <stgraber> ogra: bug-fix only reverting the layout change ?
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| 06:40 | <ogra> stgraber, yep
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| 06:49 | <ogra> stgraber, for localized console kbd i need to add console-screen.sh, console-setup and console-screen.kbd.sh to RCS_WHITELIST in 000-basic-configuration, mind if i just do that in the diff without pulling in a fresh upstream ?
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| 06:50 | (i'll push it upstream alongside, but dont think its worth a new upstream in ubuntu
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| 06:50 | )
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| 07:28 | <ogra> stgraber, is your presistend change in the upstream initscript ?
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| 07:30 | <slap> can someone tell me where I can find the translation files for GDM?
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| 07:42 | <ogra> in the gdm sourcepackage probably,
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| 07:42 | * ogra has no real ide since ltsp doesnt use gdm | |
| 07:42 | * ogra is tagging ltsp-trunk | |
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| 08:08 | <ogra> stgraber, 5.1.29 uploaded
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| 08:08 | <stgraber> ogra: cool, thanks
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| 08:08 | <ogra> we should look pretty good now
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| 08:08 | the nbd_swap stuff is very odd, we urgently need to port that to hardy
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| 08:09 | the grep always matches "grep"
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| 08:09 | so you automatically get /dev/nbd15
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| 08:09 | and the quiting had a bashism
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| 08:09 | <nubae> was that the culprit of all the 'slow' firefox and Ooo instances on ltsp?
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| 08:09 | <ogra> no idea
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| 08:10 | <ogra> i havent tested on hardy yet, i will do so after release
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| 08:10 | <jammcq> good morning friends
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| 08:10 | <ogra> to much intrepid release work on my plate t care for hardy now
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| 08:10 | but if i didnt add any regression it should look good now
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| 08:10 | i.e. releaseable
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| 08:11 | for jaunty i think i will put a week into writing a new ldm GUI with proper theme engine
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| 08:11 | so everyone will be happy
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| 08:12 | <stgraber> would be great
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| 08:36 | <monteslu> flash10 linux is ready
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| 08:37 | looks like the freeze after 2 seconds is fixed
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| 08:37 | still crashes sometimes on nspluginwrapper
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| 08:38 | haven't tried it on ltsp yet
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| 08:54 | <nubae> oli, I'm just adding this 2 instances thing of ssh to docus... really it can be turned into a patch too
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| 08:54 | mostly cping, seding and teeing
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| 08:59 | <ogra> into a patch to what ?
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| 09:02 | <nubae> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DedicatedLTSPSSH
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| 09:02 | create new ltsp-ssh
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| 09:02 | and add relevant entries to config files + .pid
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| 09:03 | actually could be a plugin instead
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| 09:05 | * ogra wonders why all this files are needed | |
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| 09:08 | <nubae> how would u envision doing it otherwise?
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| 09:10 | <ogra> i'm retty sure you could just have a script that seeds and exports SSHD_OPTS and calls the standard initrscript
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| 09:10 | <DawnLight> hello. ubuntu hardy ltsp VOLUME=100 and alsamixer shows the volumes master and pcm at 81. help?
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| 09:10 | <ogra> with probably a minor change to the initscript to accept a different pid file name
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| 09:11 | <nubae> one ssh session serving both ports?
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| 09:11 | <ogra> no
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| 09:11 | two daemons serving two ports but with a lot less changes
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| 09:11 | on e change to the ssh initscript that would have to go into the openssh package
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| 09:12 | <nubae> not that many changes... just port and/or interface additions to extra configs, extra pid and extra default
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| 09:12 | <ogra> and one wrapper script that calls the standard script but sets and exports SSHD_OPTS and points to a different pid file
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| 09:12 | <DawnLight> i see no mention on volume in the upstreamdocumentation
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| 09:12 | <nubae> DawnLight: its set at that on purpose, so u dont blow up your speakers
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| 09:13 | <DawnLight> nubae: i'd like to change that
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| 09:13 | can i set the volume?
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| 09:13 | <ogra> nubae, anyway, nothing that matters atm and nothing i could work on a day before final freeze
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| 09:14 | <nubae> yeah gotcha... just mentioning I put the online way into the docs
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| 09:14 | <ogra> but there are way saner ways to use whats there already than to ship a sh*tload of new scripts and config files
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| 09:14 | <nubae> shitload?... 4 :-)
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| 09:19 | <DawnLight> the clients won't mount usb HDD's with fat32 while they do mount usb sticks. help?
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| 09:20 | <wpgmb> I have a dual nic Ubuntu 8.04 ltsp running. Clients can log in and access Internet. I would like to be able to ssh into client's /home from my system which is not part of the same subnet. I CAN ssh into the "gateway" nic, and from there jump to the "DHCP" nic. I have enable IP forwarding in /etc/sysctr.conf but it does not seem to work. What else do I need to do?
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| 09:22 | <nubae> DawnLight: hdd access is turned off by default, the documentation tells u how to reenable it
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| 09:32 | <DawnLight> ahuh
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| 09:43 | <DawnLight> i've just tried VOLUME=0 and it is still at 81 after reboot
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| 09:45 | <nubae> ubuntu?
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| 09:51 | <DawnLight> nubae: yes
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| 09:51 | hardy
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| 09:53 | <DawnLight> the hdd still doesn't mount
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| 09:53 | <nubae> yeah the volume stuff is only active in intrepid I believe
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| 09:54 | but maybe u can enable hardy-updates in /etc/apt/sources.list
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| 09:54 | <DawnLight> updates? or you mean backports
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| 09:55 | <DawnLight> so ok no volume control... not so bad for now
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| 09:55 | <nubae> updates
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| 09:56 | <DawnLight> but why won't the hdd work after i've added the udev rule line...
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| 09:58 | <nubae> did u restart udev?
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| 09:59 | <DawnLight> nubae: ahm... i rebuilt the image and rebooted expecting it to work. i didn't change it in the client
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| 09:59 | i can restart udev
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| 10:02 | <nubae> restart udev on the server
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| 10:02 | then restart the client again and try, should work
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| 10:06 | <DawnLight> no. it's not mounting. the line i've added in the client's /etc/udev/rules.d/50-ltsp.rules is 'ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_TYPE}=="disk", ATTRS{removable}!="1", RUN+="ltspfs_entry add %k"', taken straight from the docs but... the client has no 'ltspfs_entry' command
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| 10:13 | <nubae> in the rules file, there should be a line that looks exactly like tht one, but that has a # infront of it
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| 10:13 | take that out... and delete the one u added
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| 10:13 | not the line, just the #
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| 10:16 | <sbalneav> Looks like I got the boot last night at the netsplit
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| 10:16 | morning all
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| 10:18 | <DawnLight> nubae: there isn't such a line. the only commented line is the first one, '# /etc/udev/rules.d/88-ltsp.rules'
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| 10:18 | <stgraber> moin sbalneav
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| 10:22 | <nubae> DawnLight: you're editing the wrong file
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| 10:22 | <DawnLight> nubae: i am?
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| 10:22 | <nubae> ltspfsd-rules
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| 10:23 | /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/50-ltspfsd.rules
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| 10:23 | no 88-ltsp.rules
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| 10:23 | <DawnLight> nubae: 50-ltspfsd.rules is what i'm editing. i don't know why it has this line inside
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| 10:24 | <nubae> me either... that seems wrong...
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| 10:24 | <DawnLight> ahuh
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| 10:25 | but anyway maybe you give me the line there that you have
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| 10:25 | <nubae> # internal hard drives: <--- That line should exist in there, and below is the line to change
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| 10:25 | <DawnLight> that i'm supposed to have
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| 10:25 | i've nothing like this
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| 10:25 | i can paste it
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| 10:25 | or you can look in the ubuntu source
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| 10:25 | <nubae> !pastebot
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| 10:25 | <ltspbot> nubae: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 10:29 | <ltsppbot> Someone pasted "dawn@studenten-server:/opt/lts" (18 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/36
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| 10:30 | <DawnLight> nubae: check it out
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| 10:38 | <nubae> DawnLight: well I'm not sure why your ltspfsd-rules looks so different
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| 10:38 | <DawnLight> nubae: what, do you have the same version?
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| 10:44 | <ltsppbot> "DawnLight" pasted "debian ltspfsd.udev" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/37
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| 10:44 | <DawnLight> nubae: i've just got the source for this package and this file and i'm looking... and i'm seeing this
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| 10:45 | <ltsppbot> "DawnLight" pasted "the original udev?" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/38
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| 10:45 | <nubae> yeah I'm suing intrepid
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| 10:45 | using
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| 10:46 | <ltsppbot> "Nubae" pasted "Nubae ltspfsd-rules" (25 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/39
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| 10:48 | <DawnLight> do you think this will work in hardy's udev?
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| 10:52 | <nubae> no idea
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| 10:54 | <alkisg> Guys, you need a 50-ltspfsd.rules from hardy?
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| 10:55 | <DawnLight> no, thanks. i have that
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| 10:55 | <alkisg> ok
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| 11:00 | <nubae> DawnLight: have u got locadev=True in lts.conf
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| 11:00 | might be that
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| 11:00 | should be on by default though
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| 11:01 | <DawnLight> i do have that
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| 11:02 | thanks
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| 12:52 | <davidj> bbl
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| 14:16 | <nubae1> hi Lns, johnny...
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| 14:16 | <Lns> what's up nubae1
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| 14:19 | nubae1 is now known as Nubae | |
| 14:19 | <Nubae> well, not that much, but I did manage to get ejabberd working with sugar so collaboration works over LTSP
| |
| 14:19 | !
| |
| 14:20 | that was a nice little bonus... had to compile ejabberd from source, but it works! All the neighbourhood stuff, collaborative apps work over LTSP
| |
| 14:20 | thats pretty huge in my mind...
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| 14:20 | <sbalneav> hmmm
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| 14:20 | <Lns> wow cool!
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| 14:20 | <sbalneav> Hmmmmm
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| 14:20 | HMMMMM
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| 14:20 | <Lns> I haven't messed with Sugar much but that sounds pretty need
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| 14:21 | <sbalneav> Innnnntermolesting
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| 14:21 | <Lns> s/need/neat
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| 14:21 | lol sbalneav
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| 14:21 | <sbalneav> So, one of the problems we've had with LDM is the fact that the "kill -1 $PPID" is necessary
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| 14:21 | <ogra> did you solve that ?
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| 14:21 | <sbalneav> because otherwise, the Xsession script hangs, and we can't log out.
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| 14:22 | Not yet, but I've found a clue.
| |
| 14:22 | * ogra decided today that he will write a new greeter for jaunty with theme engine | |
| 14:22 | <Nubae> yeah there is a currents sprint to make more collaborative apps that work on anything, not just sugar... that will be great for LTSP too
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| 14:22 | <sbalneav> apparently, sshd will keep a job open "if it's still using stdin and stdout"
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| 14:22 | <ogra> Nubae, did you ever try gobby ?
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| 14:23 | <Nubae> yeah
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| 14:23 | its great
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| 14:23 | <ogra> we use it with 100s of people during summits
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| 14:23 | <Nubae> but there are so many games, etc that can use the same functionality
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| 14:23 | <sbalneav> sooo, I'm wondering if this is as simple as (when we call Xsession)
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| 14:23 | <ogra> with a huge server in the ubuntu datacenter
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| 14:23 | <sbalneav> ...... ; Xsession < /dev/null > /dev/null
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| 14:23 | <ogra> oh, that might actually work
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| 14:23 | <Nubae> how does the server work with multi sessions?
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| 14:23 | ejabberd is supposed to be able to work with 6000+ clients
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| 14:23 | cause of erlang...
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| 14:23 | <sbalneav> then we could terminate the ssh session with the -O shutdown, and make the pam stuff work.
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| 14:24 | <ogra> sbalneav, one big prob approacing us is that we actually need a session dbus n the client in the future
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| 14:24 | <sbalneav> I'll try that toniught
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| 14:24 | <ogra> the whole desktop will start switching away from bonobo to dbus
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| 14:24 | <sbalneav> ogra: Well, the problem with that's gonna be: dbus is going to have to become a lot more "remote" aware
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| 14:24 | currently, it isn't
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| 14:25 | <ogra> well, with the system dbus moving into the kernel such stuff can get risky
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| 14:25 | not sure how upstream thinks about remote connections to kernel threads :)
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| 14:25 | but yes, i will look into dbus over TCP or ssh tunnel in any case
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| 14:25 | <sbalneav> It's almost like the upstream desktop guys WANT thin clients to die.
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| 14:26 | <ogra> with stgraber taking over the ubuntu stuff i should be able to actually concentrate on upstream
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| 14:26 | _UsUrPeR_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:26 | <ogra> at least thats my masterplan
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| 14:27 | <sbalneav> It used to be so simple in the old days. Heck X was DESIGNED to work with remote displays. With all the HAL/DBus/etc crap that they're thowing at things these days, they're killing one of the most beautiful, elegant parts of X.
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| 14:27 | <Nubae> SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT is still usable in LTSP 5?
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| 14:27 | <ogra> its only dbus
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| 14:27 | Nubae, yes
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| 14:27 | <Nubae> k good
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| 14:27 | <ogra> i checked the source before mentioning it, its in ldm
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| 14:27 | <sbalneav> ogra: Anyway, I'll test out that Xsesson /dev/null theory tonight.
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| 14:28 | <ogra> sounds great
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| 14:28 | <Nubae> did I find any other rogue lts variables?
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| 14:28 | <ogra> though it wont make intepid
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| 14:28 | freeze is tomorrow
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| 14:28 | (likely in effect at 12:00 UTC tonight)
| |
| 14:28 | final freeze that is
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| 14:28 | but i think i got ltsp in pretty good shape
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| 14:29 | <sbalneav> We could always do a patch afterwards though, right? This would fix a lot of "hung jobs" problems.
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| 14:29 | <ogra> (some feedback from testers would be appreciated btw ... hint hint ... to anyone not being called scott)
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| 14:29 | <Nubae> test what?
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| 14:29 | <ogra> intrepid ltsp-5.1.29
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| 14:29 | <sbalneav> Well, I need to do testing too. I'll get a box loaded tonight.
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| 14:30 | stgraber told you I got that crash bug in cdpinger fixed?
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| 14:30 | <Nubae> asus eeepc doesnt have atl2 module built into initramfs
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| 14:30 | <sbalneav> I think he squeaked it in under the wire
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| 14:30 | <ogra> yeah, its in
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| 14:30 | even officially
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| 14:30 | <stgraber> sbalneav: I merged and tagged a new ltspfs, it's in Intrepid
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| 14:31 | <ogra> stgraber is doing a way better job with pushing through the paperwork than i did
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| 14:31 | <stgraber> ogra: I didn't need paperwork for this one, no FFe required for bugfix only :)
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| 14:31 | <sbalneav> \o/ stgraber
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| 14:31 | <ogra> thats why i want to do upstrem only in the future
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| 14:31 | <sbalneav> heheh
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| 14:31 | we're less picky
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| 14:31 | <ogra> yeah
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| 14:31 | <sbalneav> "We're cheap AND easy!"
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| 14:31 | <ogra> and i'm not bound to release cycles upstream
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| 14:32 | <stgraber> ogra: and well, I'm paid for that, it helps :) I'd probably do a lot worse work if I had to do all the mobile things you do as well :)
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| 14:32 | <ogra> i want to do the cool stuff finally, not run after releases all the time
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| 14:32 | that way i assume i'm way more effective
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| 14:33 | <sbalneav> stgraber: I thought you were working for Francis? Are you working for Canonical now?
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| 14:33 | <stgraber> sbalneav: I work for Revolution Linux
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| 14:33 | but I'm paid to work full time on LTSP and LTSP Cluster
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| 14:33 | and we use Ubuntu for all our current deployments
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| 14:33 | <sbalneav> Ah, ok
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| 14:33 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i've actually been seeing the pam logout stuff kick in on debian lenny even with kill -1 $PPID ... but that still makes the rc.d/K* scripts not have an ssh session to connect to.
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| 14:34 | <sbalneav> So RL is directly sponsoring Ubuntu development, nice.
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| 14:34 | <stgraber> so, I should soon (let's hope) be able to upload directly to main and will then be able to do all: upstream + distro + plugin (ltsp-cluster) work
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> i know warren was still having the problem... but openssh 5.1 solved that issue for me...
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| 14:36 | * vagrantc apparently has a difficult time distinguishing between s??????? nicks. | |
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| 14:47 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Hey, I was sitting here thiking to myself "Man, I had a fun time in Portland, and I could sure go for some of that good coffee I had at that coffee house near Freegeek"
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| 14:47 | Could you fire up the star trek transporter you got there, and beam me over some? :)
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| 14:48 | I still haven't heard from anyone here in Wpg about a freegeek winnipeg.
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| 14:48 | <sad face>
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| 14:53 | <Lns> I FLIPPIN HATE WINDOWS!
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| 14:53 | ahem...sorry.
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| 14:57 | <johnny> lemme know if you come to to baltimore sbalneav :)
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| 14:58 | <cliebow> sbalneav let me know if you come to Maine ;-]
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| 15:00 | <ltsppbot> "Lns" pasted "lts.conf top-of-file notes - where did they go?" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/40
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| 15:01 | <Lns> Anyone know why this is missing from newer lts.confs (or are there none created by default?) in hardy?
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| 15:03 | <johnny> the doc location changed i know that
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| 15:03 | it's on the server not in the chroot
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| 15:03 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: yeah, that's the way it goes with freegeek hopefuls sometimes ... a bit of energy and then that's it.
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| 15:04 | <johnny> it's alot of work
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> lots of false starts
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| 15:04 | <johnny> if i thought i was gonna stay in baltimore longer, i'd start one here
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| 15:04 | not so much on the computer recycling right away tho.. that part is harder
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| 15:04 | first get interest in the community technology center aspect
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> johnny: you have the right perspective... too many just think it's about playing with computers all the time.
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| 15:06 | <johnny> PC hardware is megaultraboring
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| 15:07 | <sbalneav> Hmmm, so I've been setting up a server box here. No X
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| 15:07 | So, between mutt for mail, screen and irssi for chat, and getting svgalib configured so that links2 -g works....
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| 15:07 | * vagrantc would not restrict it to PC hardware | |
| 15:07 | <johnny> vagrantc, the mobile stuff is fun
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| 15:08 | i'd enjoy playing with a freerunner
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| 15:08 | <sbalneav> Mayyyybe, I'll just give up all this Gui cr*p, and go back to the good old command line. I mean, at vga=791, what else do you need?
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| 15:10 | <Lns> sbalneav: well, X11 was made so you could have multiple terminals open and visible... :p
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| 15:10 | * vagrantc would need screen to be a little easier to use with multiple simultaneous frames | |
| 15:10 | <vagrantc> other than that, i'm pretty much there.
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| 15:11 | sbalneav: so the coffee is really that much better? :)
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| 15:16 | <johnny> sbalneav, you can run xfce without X
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| 15:16 | just on the framebuffer
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| 15:17 | sbalneav, did youc atch my link about the new xprop related stuff for devices?
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| 15:17 | well .. i'll repaste it for the benefit of others
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| 15:17 | http://who-t.blogspot.com/2008/10/device-properties-have-landed.html
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| 15:23 | <sbalneav> johnny: Reeeeealy? Hmmm
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| 15:24 | vagrantc: The coffee was muy excellento in Portland
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| 15:25 | <jammcq> sbalneav: yer hanging around the office rather late, eh?
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| 15:25 | <johnny> sbalneav, i figured you'd be very interested in that :)
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| 15:26 | mr xprop
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| 15:26 | i jsut can't tell if it will help the problem of communication between client and server device config..
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> Guys, if I did 'ltsp-build-client --keep-packages', what's the quickest way to update to a newer version? Because I used to do 'rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i*', which caused all the chroot packages to be downloaded again...
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| 15:40 | <nubae> ltsp-build-client --keep-packages-cache or whatever its called
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| 15:41 | ah wait, ure already using that...
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> Eh, now I see there are 2 options, '--copy-package-cache ', and '--keep-packages', but I don't understand the difference...
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| 15:41 | * alkisg is googling... | |
| 15:41 | <sbalneav> Anything with xprops interests me
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| 15:43 | <Lns> sbalneav: hmm, interesting - I'd just heard about 'wmcontrol' last night, this seems akin to that
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| 15:45 | <johnny> i should find a way to make it my job to scour the web for interesting technologies that save people alot of time (and thus money)
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> So, --keep-packages-cache puts them in /var/cache/apt/archives, and --copy-package-cache uses this cache?
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| 15:46 | sorry, in the first one I meant --keep-packages
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| 15:53 | ok - found the code in the scripts.
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| 15:59 | <jc2it> So when I mess with certain things pertaining to videoram example OPTION "VideoRAM" 4096 in the XORG.CONF on the Thin Client. Stuff happens. The SCREEN_2 that I have configured to local shell login gets overwritten, and displays colorful artifacts instead of the black and white shell. Why?
| |
| 16:00 | <jammcq> because quite possibly you don't really have 4096kb of video ram
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| 16:00 | <jc2it> How do I know how much I really have?
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| 16:00 | <jammcq> yet you've told the driver that you do, so it tries writing data to that video ram and unpredictable things happen
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| 16:00 | what kind of card is it?
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| 16:00 | <jc2it> like the graphical garbage i see
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| 16:01 | <jammcq> if it's integrated on the motherboard, you might have a setting in your bios config
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| 16:01 | <jc2it> Integrated Via CN700 chipset on a Neoware C50
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| 16:01 | <jammcq> if it's a pci card, you might see a sticker
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| 16:01 | maybe the spec sheet for that computer
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| 16:01 | maybe neoware would tell you what it has
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| 16:01 | <jc2it> I do, the BIOS comes defaulted to 16 MB and can be adjusted up to 64 MB
| |
| 16:02 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 16:02 | try telling the driver 16mb
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| 16:02 | <jc2it> I have and no Joy
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| 16:02 | <jammcq> hmm, dunno then
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| 16:03 | <jc2it> I started this journey because I thought that part of the reason I was having trouble displaying certain graphics at the thin client was due to the drivers being loaded.
| |
| 16:04 | I thought if I could get the screensaver to work for instance that would be a simple test. Changing the screen saver throws me back to a login window
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| 16:05 | However changing the screen saver on the console of the server works just fine.
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| 16:05 | admittedly the screensaver is not desired on the thin client
| |
| 16:06 | , but I thought it was good test.
| |
| 16:06 | <ogra> well, it displays there and uses thevideoram
| |
| 16:06 | what distro and ltsp release is taht ?
| |
| 16:06 | <jc2it> Ubuntu 8.04 + LTSP 5
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| 16:07 | <ogra> note that its SCREEN_02 actually (note the zero) you said SCREEN_2 above
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| 16:07 | did you try wthout any lts.conf ?
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| 16:08 | <jc2it> Yeah that is what i have it was a typo
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| 16:08 | <ogra> oki
| |
| 16:09 | did you try wihout one ?
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| 16:09 | (lts.conf)
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| 16:09 | <jc2it> Yes. that is how we were first setup
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| 16:10 | <ogra> did you try XSERVER=openchrome
| |
| 16:10 | <jc2it> We got similar results, but i did not see the garbage on SCREEN_02, because it did not exist
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| 16:11 | <ogra> its definately addressing wrong areas of the ram
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| 16:11 | <jc2it> we are using that. How do you specify the ram for open chrome in lts.conf
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| 16:11 | <ogra> X_VIDEORAM iirc
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| 16:11 | or X_VIDEO_RAM
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| 16:12 | ah, both will work
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| 16:12 | <jc2it> like this X_VIDEO_RAM = 16MB
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| 16:12 | <ogra> no
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| 16:12 | X_VIDEO_RAM=16384
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| 16:12 | that would be 16M
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| 16:13 | like you would specify it in xorg.conf
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| 16:13 | 8192 is 8M
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| 16:14 | <jc2it> which is what we did, but I wanted to make sure ;)
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| 16:15 | <ogra> how about XSERVER=via ?
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| 16:15 | <jc2it> By doing that it should change the options in the xorg.conf that is generated at thinclient boot time?
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| 16:15 | <ogra> iirc hardy ships both va drivers
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| 16:15 | *via
| |
| 16:15 | yes
| |
| 16:16 | had yis the last release where it does that by default btw
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| 16:16 | *hardy
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| 16:17 | <jc2it> XSERVER=via makes the screen blink. We also tried getting the latest ubuntu driver for the CN700 from via's website and it did the same thing. Unless I installed it wrong
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| 16:17 | <ogra> you need to install it inside the chroot and run sudo ltsp-update-image afterward
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| 16:17 | s
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| 16:19 | <jc2it> hmmm I will try that.
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| 16:19 | <ogra> how did you do it before ?
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| 16:21 | <jc2it> I had help so I think it was not done correctly. I will have to check where the .tar put stuff
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| 16:22 | I think it isonly on the server
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| 16:22 | <ogra> yeah, likely
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| 16:26 | <jc2it> I did the VideoRam thing again with the syntax you gave me and it shows up in the thin client. I know i did not do that correctly before.
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| 16:45 | <jc2it> By matching the Default BIOS settings with the lts.conf X_VIDEO_RAM=16384 we have resolved the graphical artifacts on the different screens of the LTSP thin client. Now I can manipulate the screensaver in the thinclient and it does not exit to a login. Also I can Ctrl+ALT+BackSpace and restart X and it does not affect the graphics on SCREEN_02. The Screensaver does not load after the timeout, but it blanks instead which I have asneaky suspition
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| 16:45 | is a Ubuntu default
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| 16:47 | What is interesting is that this was broken by default with the openchrome driver. the driver was not setting the correct amount of video ram for the LTSP client
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| 17:16 | <stgraber> ouch, finally out of conference room :) I was stuck in meeting for the whole day
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| 17:17 | <ogra> jc2it, X_VIDEO_RAM=16384 alone fixed it ?
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| 17:18 | stgraber, yeah, i know how that feels ... its actually really great to work in a company without physical conference rooms if you have done that for some years
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| 17:19 | <stgraber> ogra: well, I usually get some one hour meeting and things like that but this time it was a whole day of project management and company business things (basically we're expending an need better procedures to do our work)
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| 17:19 | <ogra> yawn :)
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| 17:19 | <stgraber> so the meeting was great but not using internet one day before the RC freeze is not really a good idea ...
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| 17:20 | <ogra> well, great news for you, see #ubuntu-devel topic :P
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| 17:20 | you have 1.5h if you want fixes in
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| 17:20 | <stgraber> especially as I'm giving a Launchpad training tomorrow morning ...
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| 17:20 | <ogra> then LP will go down for maintenance
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| 17:20 | <stgraber> :(
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| 17:21 | it'll take me more to reinstall the test lab :)
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| 17:21 | * ogra still has a bunch of evtouch fixes to do | |
| 17:21 | <ogra> but only packaging issues, so i'm running in support mode atm
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| 17:21 | <Lns> ogra: is it possible for me to be on the 'notify list' of changes to the ubuntu ltsp wiki main page?
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| 17:23 | <ogra> just subscribe to it
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| 17:23 | <Lns> oh, ok =p jeez didn't know it was that easy
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| 17:23 | * ogra glares at the title of GDMVNCInetdssh | |
| 17:23 | <ogra> urgh
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| 17:23 | <Lns> ?
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| 17:23 | is that bad? :)
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| 17:23 | <ogra> well, not really a wording anyone would understand
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| 17:24 | at least it has "HOWTO: GDM/VNC/inetd/ssh" near it
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| 17:24 | <Lns> :) sorry..i'm basically copying the useful things from my own wiki here for everyone
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| 17:24 | <ogra> Lns, if you can pronounce it you get a beer
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| 17:24 | ;)
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| 17:24 | <Lns> gdmvncinetdsshgdmvncinetdsshgdmvncinetdsshgdmvncinetdssh
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| 17:24 | <ogra> lol
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| 17:24 | <Lns> beer me
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| 17:25 | * ogra didnt hear it | |
| 17:25 | <Lns> well i'm not gonna make an ogg for ya, sorry =p
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| 17:25 | <stgraber> and you have to try to pronounce it after the beer, if you can, then the beer is free :)
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| 17:25 | <Lns> lol
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| 17:25 | hmm... ogg-ra
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| 17:25 | <ogra> yeah, good point
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| 17:25 | *g*
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| 17:26 | * Lns hopes what he's putting up on the wiki will be useful more than cluttering | |
| 17:27 | <ogra> yeah, i just found the title weird
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| 17:27 | <Lns> Everything i've documented has been of tremendous use to me though so hopefully it'll be for others
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| 17:27 | X0d_of_N0d_: !!
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| 17:27 | <ogra> heh
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| 17:27 | * Lns saw X0d_of_N0d_ demonstrate LTSP last night at their local LUG | |
| 17:28 | <X0d_of_N0d_> hey Lns
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| 17:28 | <Lns> wassup..thx for the link
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| 17:28 | <X0d_of_N0d_> yeah, I've got to make sure I fill in the rest of the notes on our dripy
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| 17:29 | Lns: oh, yeah, I saw you mentioned it earlier in the log... lemme give you the other link too
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| 17:30 | xte (part of the xautomation package) http://hoopajoo.net/projects/xautomation.html
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| 17:30 | * ogra loves xte | |
| 17:31 | <X0d_of_N0d_> xte and wmctrl are awesome...
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| 17:31 | * ogra didnt know about wmctrl ... | |
| 17:31 | <ogra> i'm a devilspie guy
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| 17:31 | <X0d_of_N0d_> but I usually use the commandline for almost everything, and everything else I use shortcuts and stuff
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| 17:31 | <Lns> nice
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| 17:31 | <X0d_of_N0d_> oh, yeah.... very close
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| 17:32 | <Lns> thx X0d_of_N0d_
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| 17:32 | <X0d_of_N0d_> I just use awesomewm and let that handle everything
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| 17:32 | np man
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| 17:32 | hum....
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| 17:32 | <ogra> aewsomewm :)
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| 17:32 | cool :)
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| 17:32 | <X0d_of_N0d_> Tiling window managers ROCK
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| 17:33 | Awesome or xmonad have the best dual monitor support so...
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| 17:33 | ogra: you use devilspie with gnome or something else?
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| 17:34 | <ogra> comoiz and meatcity, yeah
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| 17:34 | *meta*
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| 17:34 | <Lns> LOL
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| 17:34 | <ogra> *compiz
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| 17:34 | <Lns> meatcity..the porn of window managers!
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| 17:34 | * ogra should have had less from that glenvilet :) | |
| 17:35 | <X0d_of_N0d_> lol
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| 17:36 | One of the guys here uses Xmonad + gnome
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| 17:36 | but it doesn't have all the flashy goodness of compiz
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| 17:37 | <ogra> well, i was surprised to see it working with compiz at all, but when i noticed that i made it a default on ubuntu-mobile
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| 17:37 | <X0d_of_N0d_> you're part of that project too?
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| 17:38 | <ogra> ubuntu defaults to fll back to metacity if there is no composite so i had to find something that makes it possible to have windows maximized and undecorated on both
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| 17:38 | i built the new ubuntu-mobile image, yes
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| 17:39 | <X0d_of_N0d_> that's pretty sweet, I've been wanting to try that on a system...it looks really interesting
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| 17:39 | <ogra> i just dropped my duties on ubuntu ltsp to do more tsp upsteam work without the constrqaints of constantly looking at the release schedule
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| 17:40 | <X0d_of_N0d_> that sounds nice
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| 17:41 | <ogra> and mobile gets me into the intrestig HW :)
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| 17:41 | <X0d_of_N0d_> wish I could do that where I work...
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| 17:41 | * ogra loves playing with touchscreens | |
| 17:41 | <X0d_of_N0d_> oh, you hear about the openpandora?
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| 17:42 | <ogra> nope, whats that ?
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| 17:42 | <X0d_of_N0d_> http://openpandora.org/
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| 17:42 | bwahahaha...sweet
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| 17:42 | <ogra> oh, nice
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| 17:42 | <X0d_of_N0d_> The prez of our lug is getting one in a few weeks I guess...
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| 17:42 | <X0d_of_N0d_> totally open source computer, from the ground up
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| 17:43 | <ogra> ubuntu doesnt officially support arm yet
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| 17:43 | <X0d_of_N0d_> (From what I've been told...)
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| 17:43 | <ogra> i played a bit ith my n800 though
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| 17:43 | <X0d_of_N0d_> they've got ubuntu booted on it
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| 17:43 | <ogra> and would love to support beagel board as thin clients
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| 17:43 | well, they
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| 17:43 | likely got mojo booting on it
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| 17:44 | there is no actual ubuntu for arm yet
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| 17:44 | (planned, discussed ... but not happened yet)
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| 17:44 | <Lns> holy crap openpandora looks sweeet
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| 17:46 | <johnny> ubuntu with arm should be easy enough
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| 17:46 | <X0d_of_N0d_> I guess it was like $300 when Kyle got it
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| 17:46 | I want one
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| 17:46 | <johnny> if not.. build the client as debian.. :)
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| 17:47 | HELLO gentlement
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| 17:47 | gentlemen*
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| 17:47 | <ogra> hey
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| 17:47 | well, ubuntu on arm means it has to run on all the HW as well as it does on x86
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| 17:47 | thats the hard part
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| 17:48 | cn make mojo run on my n80
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| 17:48 | *i can
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| 17:48 | <johnny> ogra, aren't you up past your bedtime?
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| 17:48 | <ogra> johnny, but not finished with the bottle ... and its final freeze tomorrow
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| 17:48 | <johnny> lol
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| 17:48 | <ogra> ... and i have to finish one last package
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| 17:48 | :)
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| 17:48 | <X0d_of_N0d_> ogra: you in the uk?
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| 17:48 | <ogra> .de
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| 17:49 | <X0d_of_N0d_> lol
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| 17:49 | kc8pxy__ is now known as kc8pxy | |
| 17:49 | <johnny> so.. give me the super secret internal mirror so i can get fast speeds
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| 17:49 | on the release date :)
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| 17:49 | nah.. i'll bittorrent it i guess
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| 17:49 | <ogra> i could ... but you would tell it to others, i know you :P
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| 17:49 | <johnny> lol
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| 17:49 | <ogra> ;)
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| 17:49 | <johnny> bittorrent will be good enough
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| 17:50 | i just wish i could get the apt mirrors over bittorrent
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| 17:50 | what great weather we are having..
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| 17:51 | <kc8pxy> johnny: apt doesn't do that?
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| 17:51 | <johnny> i don't think so
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| 17:51 | i could be wrong
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| 17:51 | <ogra> no, it doesnt (yet)
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| 17:51 | <johnny> maybe for jaunty...
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| 17:51 | mmm.. foodz
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| 17:52 | <kc8pxy> i know gentoo uses rsync, and the more mirrors i use(responsibly) the better performance i get :)
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| 17:54 | <ogra> well, ubuntu promotes torrent for final users and rsync for testers
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| 17:54 | but if yu have several millions of testers that doesnt really help+
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| 17:55 | * ogra waits for the release where ubuntu uses up all of the uk countrywide bandwith | |
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| 17:58 | <X0d_of_N0d_> I'm looking more forward to seeing package auth go through ssl or something, isn't apt still vulnarable to a mitm?
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| 18:00 | <X0d_of_N0d_> or am I wrong?
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| 18:01 | <Lns> ogra: you mind if i edit your 'quickinstall' page to simply have the "specific to ubuntu version 8.04" header in there, as i'm putting on all other pages?
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| 18:02 | <ogra> Lns, its not specific to 8.04
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| 18:02 | its the same on intrepid
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| 18:03 | <johnny> X0d_of_N0d_, packages are md5summed and gpg signed
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| 18:03 | so.. unlikely
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| 18:03 | <Lns> ogra: ok..but the page is specific to 8.04 (has links and all to 8.04 isos)
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| 18:03 | <ogra> Lns, and the commandline stuff at the bottom isnt bound to any release
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| 18:03 | i will update the links
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| 18:03 | on release day
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| 18:04 | <Lns> oh ok
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| 18:04 | <ogra> quickInstall is actually supposed to be valid for the current reelase all the time
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| 18:05 | <Lns> ahh, gotcha.
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| 18:05 | <ogra> its actually the only page i kept constantly updated since breezy :)
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| 18:05 | <Lns> :p that's what i'm here to help with!
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| 18:06 | <ogra> well, the screenshots should still match intrepid
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| 18:06 | and the links have to be updated on release day
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| 18:17 | MacIver has quit IRC | |
| 18:18 | <johnny> random stab for this channel
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| 18:18 | anybody use the cherokee web server?
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| 18:18 | * ogra feels stabbed | |
| 18:18 | <johnny> not that kinda stab ogra
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| 18:18 | <ogra> heh
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| 18:18 | <johnny> i'll save that for when i see you again
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| 18:19 | intrepid ibex.. the monster that must be stopped
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| 18:19 | <ogra> haha
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| 18:19 | why, if its out we'll get the jaunty jackalope
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| 18:19 | and *who* wouldnt want *that*
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| 18:19 | :)
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| 18:19 | <johnny> you'll never get the significance of the use of the jackalope
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| 18:19 | * Lns wonders what comes after zealoty zebra | |
| 18:20 | <johnny> since you don't live in the US
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| 18:20 | and watch primetime television during the early 90s
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| 18:20 | <ogra> well, we have albrecht duerer ... and he has drawn the first jackalope in 1520 :)
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| 18:21 | <johnny> that's not the same
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| 18:21 | <ogra> http://illustrationrevealed.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/durer-jackalope/
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| 18:21 | <X0d_of_N0d_> hey, so...are you guys going to ever use any of the names from this list?? http://tipotheday.com/ubuntu-names-repository/
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| 18:23 | <Lns> I really don't think there's ever going to be an Ubuntu "agitated ass-monger"
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| 18:23 | <ogra> mark decides on the names
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| 18:23 | jaunty jackalope is on there
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| 18:24 | <X0d_of_N0d_> lol
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| 18:24 | <Lns> Promiscuous Penguin just seems wrong
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| 18:26 | <johnny> lol
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| 18:26 | what happened ot the A
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| 18:26 | you guys did the order wrong sadly
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| 18:26 | <X0d_of_N0d_> http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2008/07/future-ubuntu-names.html
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| 18:26 | <Lns> ogra: does lts.conf honor stanza # this is a comment on the same line ?
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| 18:27 | <johnny> already used the H and W
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| 18:27 | <ogra> Lns, it should, yes
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| 18:27 | <Lns> k
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| 18:27 | <X0d_of_N0d_> dude, I'm totally voting for wanking walrus
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| 18:27 | <Lns> thx
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| 18:27 | hahahha
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| 18:27 | <ogra> lol
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| 18:31 | * Lns ducks out a bit early | |
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| 18:32 | <FuriousGeorge> hey all
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| 18:34 | my client just got some new keyboards for his thin clients, and he tells me that certain keys stop working occasionally. he must unplug they ps2 keyboard for a moment, or reboot the thin client. this is gonna be a really insidious problem, i think.
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| 18:34 | <johnny> sounds like bad hardware
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| 18:35 | <FuriousGeorge> the problem follows the new keyboards on every thin client
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| 18:35 | its more complicated than that, though
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| 18:35 | <X0d_of_N0d_> what kind of keyboards?
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| 18:35 | <FuriousGeorge> im using a ps2/usb adapter
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| 18:35 | <X0d_of_N0d_> what brand?
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| 18:35 | <FuriousGeorge> 'mini keyboard' with built in trackball
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| 18:36 | ill get a link
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| 18:37 | http://www.provantage.com/~7SOLD00J.htm
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| 18:38 | X0d_of_N0d_: the thin clients dont have a ps2 port, so i got usb adapters for the barcode scanners. however, the barcode scanner will not work unless it is used in conjunction with a ps2 keyboard
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| 18:38 | <X0d_of_N0d_> we had a problem with some usb keytronic keyboards with a built in hub, that proved to be the keyboard actually
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| 18:39 | hum
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| 18:40 | so everything worked with the previous keyboards though?
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| 18:49 | <FuriousGeorge> yeah
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| 18:49 | sorry for delay, i was googling around
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| 18:49 | it doesnt really make sense
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| 18:50 | they keyboard itself is actually hooked up to the 'ps2 port splitter pigtails' that come with every ps2 barcode scanner
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| 18:50 | the pigtails, in turn are hooked up to the ps2/usb adapter
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| 18:53 | <johnny> that is probably the problem
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| 18:53 | try it without
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| 18:53 | or use a usb keyboard :)
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| 18:53 | lol
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| 18:55 | <FuriousGeorge> cant use a usb keyboard
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| 18:55 | or the barcode scanners wont work
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| 18:56 | and i cant try it without till tomorrow when i go there
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| 18:56 | i do know that some ps2 keyboards work consistently, just not this one
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| 19:22 | johnny has left #ltsp | |
| 19:25 | <X0d_of_N0d_> wait...
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| 19:26 | you can't use a usb keyboard then plug in the ps2/usb adapter & scanner?
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| 19:26 | it seems like the scanner is essentially just a keyboard... I had a cue-cat that worked like that
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| 19:30 | <FuriousGeorge> sorry, i have a buddy over who's distracting me
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| 19:32 | the scanner wont work unless its used with a ps2 keyboard
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| 19:33 | ps2 scanners all have a pigtail for a ps2 keyboard (obviously, since c omputers have only 1 ps2 port)
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| 19:34 | i find this to be true of the scanner in linux and windows, so i dont think theres a software fix for it
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| 20:05 | <FuriousGeorge> X0d_of_N0d_: johnny was right though, I'm gonna need to try it without the adapters and on a regular client, etc
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| 22:33 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 22:41 | <johnny> hi sbalneav
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| 22:45 | <sbalneav> Back
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| 22:45 | <johnny> welcome back
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| 23:00 | bring back the pioneer!
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