IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 April 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:16 | <johnny> dberkholz, how formal did you want to make this process? should i just commit all these ebuilds to the overlay as both ~amd64 ~x86 ?
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| 00:17 | <dberkholz> johnny: keyword as whatever arch you tested
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| 00:17 | nothing more, please
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| 00:17 | <johnny> ok.. formal it is then
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| 00:19 | got two with ~x86, and one with ~amd64 and one with both :)
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| 00:22 | so.. category for ltsp-client and ltsp-server ?
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| 00:24 | <dberkholz> johnny: easiest way is net-misc just like ltsp is now
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| 00:27 | <johnny> sure, but is that really correct?
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| 00:28 | <dberkholz> johnny: it's reasonable
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| 00:29 | you can spend a long time arguing about this kind of thing when there's no perfect solution, or you can get on to things that actually matter
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| 00:30 | <johnny> no need to argue
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| 00:31 | just wondering
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| 00:31 | <dberkholz> arguing, discussing, thinking, whatever you like
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| 00:31 | point is it's not worth it =)
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| 01:23 | <daduke> vagrantc: cheerio! back from Spain?
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| 01:24 | <vagrantc> daduke: well, actually that whole spain thing was a ploy for my trip to antarctica
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| 01:24 | <daduke> *shudder*
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| 01:25 | <vagrantc> hace frio
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| 01:27 | <daduke> vagrantc: .. but in medias res: I upgraded ldm yesterday, and according to the changelog directx should be back? Doesn't seem to make a difference tho...
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| 01:27 | <dberkholz> muy frio...ay
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| 01:27 | <vagrantc> daduke: well, i tested it, it worked.
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| 01:27 | daduke: so what's the issue?
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| 01:28 | <dberkholz> or was it mucho for weather? been a few years...
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| 01:28 | <vagrantc> ah!
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| 01:28 | <daduke> vagrantc: it just doesn't seem to faster for = true than for = false. It's *working*, I'm just not sure it's *direct*
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| 01:28 | <vagrantc> daduke: there was something i added to the wiki that you needed to do to get LDM_DIRECTX working on some versions of ltsp
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| 01:29 | daduke: /root wasn't writeable before the version in sid
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| 01:29 | <daduke> vagrantc: but I do see the new 'creating xauth..
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| 01:29 | <vagrantc> daduke: hmmmm...
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| 01:29 | <daduke> vagrantc: all right, let me see...
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| 01:31 | vagrantc: echo 'copy_dirs="$copy_dirs /root"' >>/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup is what you're talking about?
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| 01:31 | <vagrantc> daduke: if the DISPLAY is set to IPADDRESS:N ... i don't see how it couldn't be working.
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| 01:33 | daduke: yes
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| 01:33 | daduke: otherwise it should fail to login and just kick you back to a login screen
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| 01:33 | <daduke> vagrantc: I've had /root in copy_dirs for quite some time now (since we first tried using the .Xauth file). It's just that before, youtube videos (I know..) were usable, now they're not.
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| 01:35 | * vagrantc wonders how instable this internet connection is | |
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| 01:43 | <Pascal_1> bonjour !
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| 01:47 | <daduke> Pascal_1: salut!
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| 01:47 | <Pascal_1> hello daduke !
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| 02:41 | <daduke> vagrantc: now we know ;)
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| 02:42 | <vagrantc> daduke: what do you know?
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| 02:42 | <daduke> vagrantc: how instable this internet connection is....
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| 02:42 | <vagrantc> ah, yes.
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| 02:43 | <daduke> vagrantc: I'm just trying to find out if there's any difference in ps -afx between directx true and false...
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| 02:46 | vagrantc: all right, directx=true has an additional DISPLAY=IP:7. I wonder why it isn't any faster...
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| 02:47 | <vagrantc> i remember gadi complaining that it wasn't really working.
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| 02:47 | * daduke is not alone! | |
| 02:48 | <vagrantc> i can't really think of how to test it, though...
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| 02:48 | unless the xauth stuff actually introduces some slowness that wasn't present with "-ac"
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| 02:48 | <daduke> vagrantc: I don't know much about xauth, but this would be *strange*
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| 02:49 | <vagrantc> daduke: ah, you could try with the same binary, remove the /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/*xauth* hook, and add "-ac" to the X server in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/screen.d/ldm
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| 02:49 | daduke: that would basically be identical to the old behavior
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| 02:50 | daduke: if that's still not faster, maybe you have some other slownesses ...
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| 02:50 | <daduke> vagrantc: I'll try, please stand by...
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| 02:50 | <vagrantc> daduke: have you compared two terminals side-by-side, one with directx and one without?
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| 02:51 | <daduke> vagrantc: I haven't, it's just that videos used to be smooth, and now they're not
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| 02:52 | <vagrantc> oh yay! someone made a localization patch for ldm ... maybe it at least somewhat works :)
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| 02:52 | er, i18n/l10n
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| 02:53 | <daduke> vagrantc: I don't have /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/screen.d/ldm
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| 02:53 | vagrantc: create it?
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| 02:53 | <vagrantc> daduke: copy it from /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/
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| 02:55 | <daduke> vagrantc: right. now where to put -ac? line 90?
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| 02:56 | <vagrantc> ldm vt${TTY} ${DISP} $X_ARGS
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| 02:56 | <daduke> vagrantc: that's 90 ;)
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| 02:56 | <vagrantc> i'd stick it right after $X_ARGS
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| 02:57 | daduke: well, can't know which version you're using and if the line numbers match up
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| 02:57 | <daduke> vagrantc: sorry, you're right. just rebooting now
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| 02:57 | * ogra_cmpc decided to go with xdmcp in hardy instead ... ldm will just be a link to the xdmcp script | |
| 02:58 | <ogra_cmpc> i just packaged lbus to make localdev work
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| 02:58 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: not a bad idea
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| 02:58 | ogra_cmpc: i'm thinking we should really make XFS support rock solid, too.
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| 02:58 | <ogra_cmpc> indeed
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| 02:58 | thats my next step
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| 03:00 | and switch away from ip based to dns, with a zone file for every client
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| 03:01 | <daduke> vagrantc: it's -ac now, but it's not faster either... strange. nothing else changed in our setup.
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| 03:01 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: that could really allow the flexibility we've always wanted.
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| 03:02 | <ogra_cmpc> right
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| 03:02 | finally
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| 03:02 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i know we're pretty much abandoning ldm, but did you see that i18n/l10n patch for it?
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| 03:02 | *almost* makes me reconsider.
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| 03:03 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, i didint read all my mail yet, i guess thats in pkg-ltsp-devel ?
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| 03:03 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: yeah. with more de.po strings, too
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| 03:04 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm, i wonder why the second underscore is needed in all these strings
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| 03:05 | i always thought one before the quotes is enough ....
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| 03:06 | msgid "Error: wait() call failed"
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| 03:06 | urgh
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| 03:07 | <vagrantc> oh well.
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| 03:07 | <ogra_cmpc> thyat surely needs a better msg :)
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| 03:07 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 03:07 | <ogra_cmpc> +msgid "Fatal error, missing mandatory information"
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| 03:07 | that one too
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| 03:07 | <vagrantc> well the patch applies cleanly at least :)
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| 03:07 | no idea if it builds or works
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| 03:09 | <ogra_cmpc> you likely need a buiklddep on gettext etc
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| 03:10 | but thats impressing ...
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| 03:10 | i wonder if one of us would ever have made it that far
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| 03:11 | <vagrantc> wolfgang has been helping out lessdisks and ltsp for quite some time now.
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| 03:11 | <ogra_cmpc> do you know where he is located ?
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| 03:12 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: no
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| 03:12 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 03:12 | <ogra_cmpc> i'd paty him a beer at linuxtag in berlin
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| 03:12 | *pay
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| 03:12 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: well, i'm sure a kindly email suggesting as much would be well recieved :)
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| 03:14 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah
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| 03:14 | i shall do so
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| 03:21 | <vagrantc> well, it builds with the patch...
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| 03:22 | <ogra_cmpc> generate a de locale, add LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 to the call in the screen script and see ?
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| 03:23 | <vagrantc> well, have to figure out what additional files to include in the .deb first ...
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| 03:23 | i see de.gmo and fr.dmo ...
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| 03:23 | er, fr.gmo
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| 03:23 | <ogra_cmpc> oh, right you dont have the buildd magic we have in ubuntu
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| 03:24 | <vagrantc> well, our packaging doesn't actually use Make to install anything
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| 03:24 | <ogra_cmpc> right
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| 03:24 | <vagrantc> which we should probably re-think a little
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| 03:24 | <ogra_cmpc> our buildd strips out all translations that are shipped in the source
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| 03:24 | <vagrantc> nice
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| 03:24 | <ogra_cmpc> and adds the to the language packs
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| 03:24 | *them
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| 03:25 | which then get built separately
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| 03:25 | (which is not what i want for ltsp)
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| 03:25 | <vagrantc> so every package upload with i18n could potentially require a rebuild of the language packs?
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| 03:25 | <ogra_cmpc> language packs are huge ... i just want the ldm translation installed
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| 03:26 | if the .po files changed, yes
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| 03:26 | our langpack mechanism allows langpacks to be updated separately as well though
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| 03:26 | so if there are new translations in a stable re;lease we can get them in al the time
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| 03:27 | <vagrantc> that's cool
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| 03:27 | <ogra_cmpc> (langpacks are the only packages that get updated constantly, separated from the release cycle)
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| 03:27 | yeah
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| 03:27 | that was marks most important target from the beginning
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| 03:28 | we eqarned a lot of money already through doig paid translation work for customers ;)
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| 03:28 | its part of our business model
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| 03:28 | (ubuntu is the only distro i know providing xhosa translations :) )
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| 03:29 | <vagrantc> hrm.... well i can't quite figure out what needs to be installed where...
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| 03:29 | <ogra_cmpc> or other strange african languages you never heard of
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| 03:29 | <vagrantc> *.gmo == *.mo ?
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| 03:29 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm, not sure
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| 03:29 | look at other packages ?
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| 03:30 | <vagrantc> i might have to work on this another day ...
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| 03:30 | but i'm so excited to get it fixed :)
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| 03:31 | <cyberorg> .gmo are discarded, mo are installed
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| 03:32 | <vagrantc> there are no .mo files generated
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| 03:32 | <cyberorg> they are generated when we compile
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| 03:33 | <vagrantc> well, they weren't when i did
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| 03:33 | this has been the problem with getting i18n support working ... not knowing enough of what's supposed to go where...
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| 03:35 | <daduke> vagrantc: I saw something in the ldm changelog about arbitrary xserver... can I use this to add Option "DPMS" in order to achieve ldm screen blanking?
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| 03:35 | <ogra_cmpc> do you have gettext in the build deps ?
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| 03:35 | <vagrantc> daduke: if there is an X commandline option to do so, yes.
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| 03:35 | <ogra_cmpc> daduke, that should rather go into configure-x.sh
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| 03:35 | <vagrantc> X -help
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| 03:36 | <daduke> vagrantc: it's in the Monitor section of xorg.conf
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| 03:36 | <cyberorg> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/guide/project/howto is a good guide
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| 03:36 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, you will override user settings with the commandline ... if a user has a custom xorg.conf thats not nice
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| 03:36 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: indeed.
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| 03:37 | ogra_cmpc: i wrote the default code to take that into consideration
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| 03:37 | <ogra_cmpc> ah, k
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| 03:37 | i should look at the upstream code one day
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| 03:37 | :P
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| 03:38 | <daduke> vagrantc: right now we're trying to use a /etc/rc2.d/S99powersave to blank ldm screens, but it's not working... xset +dpms and stuff
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| 03:38 | * ogra_cmpc shakes his head | |
| 03:38 | <ogra_cmpc> warren stole one of my best co workers ... matthew garret starts at redhat it seems
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| 03:38 | sigh
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| 03:38 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i've got gettext and gettext-base installed ...
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| 03:39 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, you need these changes in configure.ac http://gitweb.compiz-fusion.org/?p=fusion/plugins-main;a=commitdiff;h=40adf8b45cc754959f1feeb93e9df870868b073a;hp=6e5e034d629e4b6c1e64387864221b286f87d705
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| 03:39 | <vagrantc> i guess i can easily tell if the patch breaks anything... as that'll need to be fixed anyways...
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| 03:39 | <ogra_cmpc> +#ifdef ENABLE_NLS
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| 03:39 | you need to make it set ENABLE_NLS somehow in configure
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| 03:40 | else it will ignore it ... look at the code :)
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| 03:40 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: the patch i'm working with is: http://bugs.debian.org/473674
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| 03:41 | cyberorg: specifically: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=5;filename=ldm.diff;att=1;bug=473674
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| 03:41 | cyberorg: applies cleanly to ldm-trunk
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| 03:41 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, i guess you can set that variuable in rules somehow
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| 03:42 | * ogra_cmpc sends some extra hate in direction of the autofoo inventors | |
| 03:42 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, you don't need ALL_LINGUAS="de fr", they should be listed in po/LINGUAS file
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| 03:43 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: i guess, at the moment, i'm more interested in getting it working than every little detail
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| 03:43 | <cyberorg> this has more proper changes that are required http://gitweb.compiz-fusion.org/?p=fusion/compizconfig/ccsm;a=commitdiff;h=b8d8fdc1a05fe7ed7b5e5db2195d4c74126ad81c;hp=be9abe1061afead316bb8240907104ee8d482146
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| 03:43 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, the variable above is the key ...
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| 03:43 | without it the code wont even take translations into account
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| 03:44 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: are these patches you keep posting for ldm, or some other project?
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| 03:44 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, they are for other project, but the idea is same
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| 03:44 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: i'm too clueless to be able to understand how to apply it
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| 03:44 | <cyberorg> Makefile.am, autogen.sh, configure.ac needs the same changes
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| 03:45 | may be i can have a look
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| 03:45 | prepare a patch for ldm
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| 03:45 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: the patch changes all of those things, and i'm not prepared to compare it against similar changes in an unrelated project.
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| 03:45 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, ok, i'll check and comment
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| 03:45 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: you looked at the bug report?
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| 03:46 | <cyberorg> yes, saw the patch
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| 03:46 | <vagrantc> ok. just wanted to make sure we were working with the same thing :)
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| 03:46 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, erm
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| 03:47 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: ?
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| 03:47 | <ogra_cmpc> if you look close enough you will see that he just modified the exiustsing language stuff in the po/ dir
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| 03:47 | just regenerate as you always did
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| 03:47 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, give me few minutes, apply patch and check it out properly
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| 03:47 | * vagrantc never did | |
| 03:47 | <ogra_cmpc> it should vcreate the new translations
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| 03:47 | vagrantc, in ltsp you do
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| 03:48 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: this is ldm
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| 03:48 | <ogra_cmpc> the way to get the translations is the same here
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| 03:48 | <vagrantc> no it's not.
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| 03:48 | make -C po all
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| 03:48 | make: Entering directory `/home/vagrant/tmp/20080401/ldm-trunk/po'
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| 03:48 | make: Nothing to be done for `all'.
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| 03:48 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm, it should be, there is a po/ dir and a Makrefile.in.in
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| 03:48 | <vagrantc> no .mo files are generated.
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| 03:48 | <ogra_cmpc> *Makefile
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| 03:49 | <vagrantc> but .gmo files *are* generated, whatever those are.
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| 03:49 | <ogra_cmpc> do you hqave a makefile ?
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| 03:49 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 03:49 | <ogra_cmpc> generated from the in.in
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| 03:49 | <vagrantc> so, i don't know how to set the *NLS* variable you were talking about
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| 03:50 | <ogra_cmpc> export it from debian/rules for a start ?
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| 03:50 | just set it to 1 or true
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| 03:51 | <vagrantc> with configure somehow, or ... ?
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| 03:51 | <ogra_cmpc> export ENABLE_NLS=1
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| 03:52 | put that into rules at the top
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| 03:52 | and see what happens
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| 03:52 | (there is surely a more proper way, but for testing that should suffice)
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| 03:53 | without it set the code wont take gettext into account at all
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| 03:54 | you can also just rip out the ifdef
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| 03:54 | <vagrantc> oooh. tasty.
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| 03:54 | <ogra_cmpc> for testing ...
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| 03:54 | <vagrantc> right
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| 04:06 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 04:16 | * gvy is back (gone 85:13:42) | |
| 04:16 | <gvy> lol, missed vagrantc by ten minutes :D
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| 04:16 | ogra_cmpc, cyberorg, halo
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| 04:17 | <ogra_cmpc> he'll be beack
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| 04:17 | i guess he went for breakfast
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| 04:17 | or early lunch
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| 04:17 | <gvy> good idea btw (back from city/ltsp customer)
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| 04:24 | <cyberorg> http://cyberorg.kicks-ass.org/ltsp/ldm-trunk.i18n/ with minor modifications
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| 04:24 | here is the build log, i18n works http://pastebin.ca/965893 it creates fr.po and de.po
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| 04:24 | hi gvy
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| 04:28 | installing de.gmo as /var/tmp/ldm2-0.1_080308-build/usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo so gmo == mo
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| 04:58 | <muh2000_> h
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| 04:58 | hi
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| 05:38 | <muh2000> i am having trouble getting xorg stated with a amd-geode machine
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| 05:42 | <ogra_cmpc> muh2000, the amd driver is broken upstream since a while
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| 05:42 | there is active fixing going on, but thats not finished ywt
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| 05:42 | *yet
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| 05:43 | <muh2000> ogra_cmpc: so no way to start X ?
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| 05:43 | <daduke> ogra_cmpc: we're using geodes here with the amd driver, we added it manually
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| 05:43 | <muh2000> daduke: how to add? :D
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| 05:45 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah,m there is a ppa with a fix
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| 05:46 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: define trouble
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| 05:46 | <muh2000> Q-FUNK: x does not work
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| 05:47 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: does not start?
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| 05:47 | <muh2000> Q-FUNK: i think it tries to start but fails
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| 05:47 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: on what hardware? using which distro and what release?
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| 05:47 | <muh2000> geode lx debian lenny ltsp 5
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| 05:47 | <Q-FUNK> lenny is broken
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| 05:47 | <daduke> muh2000: you can try https://www.phys.ethz.ch/~daduke/amd_drv.so, X driver binaries are pretty distro (and even platform) independant...
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| 05:48 | <Q-FUNK> which hardware exactly? what brand and model of thin client? what bios?
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| 05:48 | <daduke> muh2000: goes to /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/amd_drv.so
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| 05:49 | <muh2000> daduke: k
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| 05:49 | <Q-FUNK> daduke: he is on debian. he'd need a brand new X core to be compiled for Lenny, but debian refuses to merge the 3 patches against x86emu.
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| 05:49 | <muh2000> Q-FUNK: http://www.pcengines.ch/alix3c3.htm that thing
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| 05:50 | <daduke> Q-FUNK: I'm on etch and use the alix1c.
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| 05:50 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: I suggest tracking xserver-xorg-core and the amd driver from unstable
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| 05:50 | daduke: etch works, because that has an X core using the old vm86 backend
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| 05:51 | <muh2000> bios is the newest
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| 05:51 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: bios brand ?
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| 05:51 | <daduke> Q-FUNK: which prevents my driver from loading?
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| 05:52 | <ogra_cmpc> Q-FUNK, refused for lenny or at all ?
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| 05:52 | <Q-FUNK> ok, award bios. that should work, but you'd still need a recent enough version of the driver. what's in debian/testing is outdated, thoguh
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| 05:52 | <ogra_cmpc> (intrepid will pull sid's x)
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| 05:53 | <muh2000> lol @ outdated debian testing ^^
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| 05:53 | <Q-FUNK> ogra_cmpc: debian insists that they will not merge bartman's patches until upstream does. right now, they only merged one of the 3 patches and it's not the most critical one
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| 05:53 | <ogra_cmpc> bah
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| 05:53 | i'll keep an eye on that for intrepid
| |
| 05:54 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: it's not that. recent X introduce bugs that made debian decide to keep new X in unstable
| |
| 05:54 | <muh2000> so using unstable could work?
| |
| 05:54 | <ogra_cmpc> fun ... debian still has half a year until release ... what a silly decision
| |
| 05:55 | s/release/proposeed release :) /
| |
| 05:55 | *proposed
| |
| 05:55 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: it should
| |
| 05:56 | ogra_cmpc: not so silly if you consider that X core 1.3 is the last good one, for many people, and that multiple head is completely borken on some chipsets, since xinerama was removed and replaced with the improve randr.
| |
| 05:56 | <ogra_cmpc> it works in hardy (mostly) with the switch to xrandr for everything
| |
| 05:57 | hardy even has a neat and functional gui to set that up
| |
| 05:57 | <Q-FUNK> http://release.debian.org/migration/testing.pl?package=xserver-xorg-video-amd
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| 05:57 | ogra_cmpc: what is the name of thta gui package, btw?
| |
| 05:57 | <ogra_cmpc> good question
| |
| 05:57 | * ogra_cmpc looks | |
| 05:58 | <Q-FUNK> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=xserver-xorg-core&sev-inc=critical&sev-inc=grave&sev-inc=serious
| |
| 05:58 | <ogra_cmpc> seems it replaces gnome-display-properties here
| |
| 05:59 | and comes with gnome-cc
| |
| 05:59 | <Q-FUNK> package gnome-cc ?
| |
| 05:59 | <ogra_cmpc> gnome-control-center
| |
| 05:59 | <Q-FUNK> ah!
| |
| 06:00 | <ogra_cmpc> * debian/patches/101_cc-add-randr12-capplet.patch,
| |
| 06:00 | debian/patches/102_cc-randr12-makefile.patch:
| |
| 06:00 | - Add a capplet for configuring multiple monitors using xrandr 1.2
| |
| 06:00 | added Fri, 29 Feb 2008
| |
| 06:01 | <Q-FUNK> here, I seem to have gnome-displauy properties
| |
| 06:01 | <ogra_cmpc> but likely the old one
| |
| 06:02 | the new one still has a bug that doesnt let you test the config ... if you get the timeout counter in yours, thats the old one
| |
| 06:02 | (desktop team is just merging that in)
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| 06:02 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 06:02 | <muh2000> X.Org X Server 1.4.0.90
| |
| 06:04 | <Q-FUNK> ogra_cmpc: yes, this seems to be a new one. howeve,r it freezes during reconfiguration of the external display
| |
| 06:04 | <ogra_cmpc> bug !
| |
| 06:04 | file it :)
| |
| 06:05 | <muh2000> hmmm x still does not start :/
| |
| 06:05 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: X from unstable and -amd from unstable?
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| 06:06 | <muh2000> xserver-xorg-video-amd
| |
| 06:06 | * ogra_cmpc just fiddles around with dhcpd and power management so dhcpd comes up properly again after suspend of an ltsp server | |
| 06:06 | <muh2000> deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main
| |
| 06:06 | <Q-FUNK> ogra_cmpc: also, this seems to insist on making my external monitor the main screen, while I'd prefer it to be an extra display
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| 06:06 | <ogra_cmpc> you should be able to switch them
| |
| 06:06 | <Q-FUNK> dpkg -l xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-video-amd
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| 06:06 | <ogra_cmpc> i dont have an external output anywhere to test that at all
| |
| 06:07 | <muh2000> ii xserver-xorg-core 2:1.4.1~git20080131-2 Xorg X server - core server
| |
| 06:07 | ii xserver-xorg-video-amd 2.7.7.7-1 X.org server -- AMD Geode GX/LX display driver
| |
| 06:08 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: please file a bug at debian using "reportbug" to help us track what is causing this. mention your alix board and put the URL to the specifications you showed us above
| |
| 06:08 | <muh2000> that is in my lts.conf XSERVER = amd
| |
| 06:09 | ok
| |
| 06:09 | <ogra_cmpc> you shouldnt use lts.conf first place with ltsp5
| |
| 06:09 | only if it doesnt work (well, indeed it doesnt, but you always should try first without lts.conf before fiddling)
| |
| 06:10 | (and drop it inbetween if you changed package)
| |
| 06:10 | *packages
| |
| 06:11 | <muh2000> ogra_cmpc: without lts.conf i have only a black display
| |
| 06:11 | <ogra_cmpc> ok ...
| |
| 06:11 | just a hint ... :)
| |
| 06:11 | <muh2000> well i can see the boot stuff but when it tries to switch to x => black screen. monitor is on though
| |
| 06:11 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: I'm not sure if vagrantc merged the autodetection part for amd
| |
| 06:11 | öö.. ogra_cmpc
| |
| 06:12 | <ogra_cmpc> most of the breakage i supported in the last three years was caused by using lts.conf whetre it shouldnt be used
| |
| 06:12 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: but anyhow, please file a bug and include the logs that reportbug wants to include
| |
| 06:12 | ogra_cmpc: that too
| |
| 06:12 | <ogra_cmpc> so dropping it for a test is always my first suggestion :)
| |
| 06:12 | <Q-FUNK> yup
| |
| 06:12 | <vagrantc> Q-FUNK: i'm not aware of any patches for autodetection for amd ...
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| 06:13 | <ogra_cmpc> autodetection is done by X --configure
| |
| 06:13 | or -configure i forgot how many dashes
| |
| 06:13 | <Q-FUNK> ogra_cmpc: lenny has old X. no configure yet
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| 06:13 | <ogra_cmpc> oh
| |
| 06:13 | well
| |
| 06:14 | then you probably should have xdebconfigurator installed
| |
| 06:14 | <vagrantc> lenny's X is probably better without xdebconfigurator
| |
| 06:15 | <ogra_cmpc> how do you generate the config without support from X for that ?
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| 06:15 | <muh2000> vesa:no matching dev found....
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| 06:16 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: uh, X -configure has been in the X server since XFree86 days.
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| 06:16 | <gvy> => need to find matching developer eh? ;-)
| |
| 06:16 | vagrantc, ! :)
| |
| 06:16 | <Q-FUNK> vagrantc: uh, no it wasn't try on etch
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| 06:16 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, sure ?
| |
| 06:16 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: it even works reasonably well on etch
| |
| 06:16 | absolutely.
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| 06:16 | score has joined #ltsp | |
| 06:16 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm
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| 06:16 | <Q-FUNK> hmm
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| 06:16 | <muh2000> hmmm i guess i switch to etch ^^
| |
| 06:16 | <vagrantc> i'm not saying it's always worked well
| |
| 06:16 | <ogra_cmpc> i tought that came only with 1.3
| |
| 06:17 | <Q-FUNK> me too
| |
| 06:17 | <vagrantc> so with any given piece of hardware, it may not be good enough at autodetection, but it's definitely been present in XFree86 4+
| |
| 06:17 | <Q-FUNK> not before
| |
| 06:17 | <daduke> muh2000: if you can... geode on etch is no problem at all
| |
| 06:17 | <Q-FUNK> yes, etch is really stable
| |
| 06:17 | * vagrantc wonders if we're talking about the same thing | |
| 06:17 | <muh2000> daduke: server would be lenny and ltsp etch hmm
| |
| 06:17 | <Q-FUNK> you can build from the gutsy source package for etch
| |
| 06:18 | the only real solution would be to convince jcristau to finally merge bartman's other partches for x86emu
| |
| 06:18 | <ogra_cmpc> which are in ubuntu and very likely in the upcoming fedora
| |
| 06:18 | <daduke> muh2000: I think ltsp-build-client can handle that..
| |
| 06:19 | <Q-FUNK> yup
| |
| 06:19 | warren made sure to merge them
| |
| 06:19 | <ogra_cmpc> its just crack to hold them back
| |
| 06:19 | <Q-FUNK> or at least he asked his team to look into it
| |
| 06:20 | <muh2000> is there a way to select etch with ltsp-build-client ?
| |
| 06:20 | <vagrantc> muh2000: if you do use etch ltsp chroot with a lenny server, be sure to use the backports: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
| |
| 06:21 | muh2000: you'll need the --dist etch option
| |
| 06:22 | plamengr has joined #ltsp | |
| 06:22 | <muh2000> k thnx
| |
| 06:24 | plamengr has joined #ltsp | |
| 06:27 | TelnetManta has quit IRC | |
| 06:37 | <Pascal_1> hello
| |
| 06:37 | i've got one question about localdev : why when i plug an usb device on 1 thin client it appear on the other thin client ?
| |
| 06:39 | <vagrantc> Pascal_1: linux distro and release?
| |
| 06:39 | <Pascal_1> oups hello vagrantc , debian etch and , i think the last version of ltsp from backports
| |
| 06:40 | <vagrantc> Pascal_1: using GNOME ?
| |
| 06:40 | <Pascal_1> yes
| |
| 06:41 | <vagrantc> yeah, that's likely to happen- i think GNOME will show you all mounted devices, weather you can access them or not.
| |
| 06:41 | not sure if there's a workaround
| |
| 06:41 | <Pascal_1> it's a "normal" behaviour ?
| |
| 06:42 | <vagrantc> it doesn't surprise me
| |
| 06:42 | <Pascal_1> ok but ubuntu use gnome also ? then is there the same behaviour on ubuntu ?
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| 06:45 | <vagrantc> Pascal_1: ubuntu patched GNOME
| |
| 06:45 | <Pascal_1> hmmm ok
| |
| 06:46 | <vagrantc> newer versions of GNOME were fixed upstream, i think.
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| 06:46 | <Pascal_1> then the best distro to use for ltsp is ubuntu ?
| |
| 06:46 | <vagrantc> or debian supplied improvements
| |
| 06:46 | er, patches
| |
| 06:46 | <Pascal_1> ok
| |
| 06:46 | <vagrantc> s,supplied,applied,
| |
| 06:47 | !bestltspdistro
| |
| 06:47 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "bestltspdistro" is whatever you prefer
| |
| 06:47 | <vagrantc> there is no best.
| |
| 06:47 | <jammcq> vagrantc: hey, you made it to spain ?
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| 06:47 | <vagrantc> there are features working, missing, or broken.
| |
| 06:48 | jammcq: well, i decided to go to antarctica instead.
| |
| 06:48 | <jammcq> heh
| |
| 06:48 | <vagrantc> you just don't forego opportunities like that
| |
| 06:48 | <jammcq> shoulda come to michigan. same weather
| |
| 06:49 | <Pascal_1> hmm vagrantc, have you got news about pam ? ;-)
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| 06:50 | ogra_cmpc_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 06:50 | <vagrantc> Pascal_1: if i did, i would update the bug report.
| |
| 06:50 | well, with the i18n patches applied, ldm doesn't break. still no idea what files i actually need to include in the package.
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| 06:53 | muh2000_ has joined #ltsp | |
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| 06:57 | <ogra_cmpc_> the .mo files need to go somewhere into the locale paths iirc
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| 06:57 | something with messagews in the pathname
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| 06:58 | /usr/share/locale/${LANG}/LC_MESSAGES/
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| 07:01 | TelnetManta has quit IRC | |
| 07:02 | <vagrantc> well, it looks like, for whatever reason, it generates .gmo files, which seem no different from .mo files.
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| 07:02 | <ogra_cmpc_> try it ?
| |
| 07:02 | just dump the de file into the path
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| 07:03 | and run ldm with de locale
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| 07:03 | mhterres has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:03 | <vagrantc> tried it ... and i've set de_DE as the default locale ... but somehow it's not registering that. might try and set the locale in the screen script next.
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| 07:04 | cliebow has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:05 | <ogra_cmpc_> you need to run locale-gen de_DE.UTF-8
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| 07:05 | and ets it to that
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| 07:05 | *set
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| 07:06 | there are no de locales by default
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| 07:06 | not even if you copy stuff into that dir
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| 07:06 | locale-gen is needed
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| 07:06 | <vagrantc> well, i dpkg-reconfigred and selected de_DE and set it to the default
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| 07:06 | muh2000 has quit IRC | |
| 07:06 | <vagrantc> which runs locale-gen
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| 07:06 | <ogra_cmpc_> ah
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| 07:06 | we dont have that in ubuntu
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| 07:06 | <vagrantc> but the screen scripts still run as POSIX
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| 07:07 | <ogra_cmpc_> yeah, as i said in the beginning, just prefix the ldm call with LANG=
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| 07:07 | in the screen script
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| 07:08 | TelnetManta has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:08 | <muh2000_> daduke: did you use lts.conf for amd/geode vga driver ?
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| 07:09 | <vagrantc> wahooo!
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| 07:09 | i don't understand the LDM login screen!
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| 07:10 | :)
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| 07:13 | <ogra_cmpc_> so adding lang helped ?
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| 07:13 | <vagrantc> well, using the correct filename in /usr/share/locale helped
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| 07:14 | * ogra_cmpc_ starts to consider to pull ldm from debian ... | |
| 07:14 | daya has quit IRC | |
| 07:14 | <vagrantc> actually, we can just set LANG in lts.conf ... it exports all variables.
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| 07:15 | <ogra_cmpc_> well, we have a locale plugin that should DTRT
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| 07:15 | <vagrantc> still don't really understand the deal with the .gmo vs. .mo files ...
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| 07:17 | <muh2000_> hmpf
| |
| 07:17 | backport wont work :/
| |
| 07:18 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:19 | <muh2000_> it halts at "starting ltsp client...detected xorg server" "calling int 0x15 (f000:f859)" "eax is 0xbf01"
| |
| 07:20 | or without autoconfig black screen again
| |
| 07:21 | <ogra_cmpc_> oooh, http://www.bstock.com/Lirpa1.htm
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| 07:25 | <vagrantc> hrm.
| |
| 07:25 | now it's not working.
| |
| 07:28 | ah, forgot the .UTF-8 bit
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| 07:29 | don't know why it's not recognizing the system default locale ... but this is great progress to see :)
| |
| 07:30 | <ogra_cmpc_> what release are you on atm ?
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| 07:30 | i think the default is now set in /etc/default/locale
| |
| 07:31 | Hailed as a genius in Birkina Faso, Lirpa has won the 2003 Nobel Prize for Cable and sits on the board of directors (though they are none too happy about it as Lirpa, now 89 has apparently never heard of the Atkins diet.)
| |
| 07:31 | hahaha
| |
| 07:32 | i love april 1st
| |
| 07:39 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: yeah, /etc/default/locale is what dpkg-reconfigure modified ...
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| 07:39 | ogra_cmpc_: can't find the locale defined elsewhere. ..
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| 07:53 | * ogra_cmpc_ dances .... | |
| 07:53 | * ogra_cmpc_ just ordered his next laptop :) | |
| 07:54 | <cliebow> bigger keyboard 8~)
| |
| 07:54 | ?
| |
| 07:54 | mhterres has quit IRC | |
| 07:54 | mhterres has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:54 | <Q-FUNK> bigger spoons.
| |
| 07:55 | <ogra_cmpc_> http://www.notebook-paradies.com/oxid.php/sid/5edaa3940591eddf3d83ee1265734734/cl/details/cnid/34d47e3d0619f1822.57725514/anid/34d47e3d1da300ea6.34265928/<b>NEXOC-Osiris-S621---Tablet<_b>/
| |
| 07:55 | <vagrantc> oh, i haven't figured out where to define ENABLE_NLS yet ...
| |
| 07:55 | <ogra_cmpc_> its huge, 12.1"
| |
| 07:56 | <cliebow> cool!
| |
| 07:56 | <ogra_cmpc_> and a real keyboard (even though the next gen classmate has a better keyboard as well and 9" ... i actually wouldnt need a new lappie)
| |
| 07:56 | plamengr has quit IRC | |
| 07:57 | <cliebow> im stuck with my "possessed" Christine Sony for the duaration
| |
| 07:58 | * Q-FUNK got himself a Dell D430 recently | |
| 07:58 | <ogra_cmpc_> well, my "duration" is just over .... all three years i get a new one from canonical (as long as i accept to fix/report all probs i have with it)
| |
| 07:59 | and my old Hp is nearly falling apart
| |
| 08:00 | the sony i had before was actually the most robus one i ever had, its still working fine (with ubuntu arty install)
| |
| 08:00 | *warty
| |
| 08:00 | <cliebow> ducttape works wonders..
| |
| 08:00 | <ogra_cmpc_> cliebow, well, if the lid falls over all the time that gets tricky ... i was considering strings from lid to case already
| |
| 08:00 | <cliebow> hahah!
| |
| 08:01 | <ogra_cmpc_> at least the keyboard survived ...
| |
| 08:01 | <cliebow> mine is not that bad..have to squeeze it together every time i use it
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| 08:01 | gentgeen__ has quit IRC | |
| 08:01 | <ogra_cmpc_> i had an acer where the keys started to fall off right after warranty was over
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| 08:01 | <cliebow> after i dumped it on the floor the cursor goes wherever it wants..somewhat inspired by Yoda
| |
| 08:02 | <ogra_cmpc_> acer + keyboards + heavy daily usage = not good
| |
| 08:02 | <cliebow> good to know
| |
| 08:02 | i actaually had a Dell handed down to me at school..but im afraid ill break it..
| |
| 08:03 | <ogra_cmpc_> the very old sonys were very good from a case POV ... saldy sony usually has crap HW inside thats hard to upgrade
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| 08:16 | Shawn_Powers has joined #ltsp | |
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| 08:16 | <jammcq> g'morning friends
| |
| 08:16 | <cliebow> homies!!!
| |
| 08:22 | <Shawn_Powers> g'morning all (as everyone wonders who the heck Shawn is...)
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| 08:22 | ;)
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| 08:37 | Ankleteeth has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:38 | <Ankleteeth> Anybody have any brand thin clients they can recommend that are idea with ltsp?
| |
| 08:39 | <Shawn_Powers> apart from the sound not working yet (proprietary drivers) I *love* the PXE 1000 from disklessworkstations.com
| |
| 08:39 | cheap, low power
| |
| 08:39 | etc
| |
| 08:39 | <warren> well, it is also really slow
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| 08:39 | mhterres has quit IRC | |
| 08:39 | <warren> so slow that you feel it when using it as a dumb terminal
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| 08:40 | mhterres has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:40 | <warren> some specific uses of it are fine
| |
| 08:40 | but regular desktop use, I wouldn't recommend
| |
| 08:40 | <Ankleteeth> nice, i'll look at those
| |
| 08:40 | <Shawn_Powers> My users generally web browse, and do a little open office work
| |
| 08:40 | so yeah, above that, they are pretty slow
| |
| 08:40 | <Ankleteeth> low power consumption is high on my desires too, because I want several around the house
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| 08:40 | <warren> Shawn_Powers, isn't it too slow to do even most flash in the browsers?
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| 08:40 | <Shawn_Powers> hmm... I haven't had a problem with it
| |
| 08:41 | <warren> watching animation in flash in my experience is more like a slideshow
| |
| 08:41 | <Shawn_Powers> huh... I guess I could look some more
| |
| 08:41 | my standard test is homestarrunner.com
| |
| 08:41 | lol
| |
| 08:42 | <jammcq> hey Shawn_Powers
| |
| 08:42 | * Shawn_Powers is gonna have to go hook one up and play some more | |
| 08:42 | <Ankleteeth> I came across a Encore ENTC-1000 on ebay for less than $100USD
| |
| 08:42 | <Shawn_Powers> Hey Jim. :)
| |
| 08:42 | <Ankleteeth> it looks ideal, but with minimal experience with ltsp, I'm not sure what kind of problems I'm going to run into
| |
| 08:43 | <Shawn_Powers> I'm not familiar with it at all, the Encore one that is
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| 08:43 | <Ankleteeth> its only 200Mhz, so I imagine that would be slow with web performance too I bet...
| |
| 08:44 | <Shawn_Powers> I reviewed the 1000PXE for Linux Journal (under a differnet brand) as a stand alone workstation, and it was slow, but worked with Puppy linux
| |
| 08:44 | which, admittedly, shocked me
| |
| 08:44 | :)
| |
| 08:45 | <Ankleteeth> I suppose for nominal performance, I should be looking for a thin client with maybe at least 500Mhz?
| |
| 08:45 | <Shawn_Powers> I guess I'm a bad judge -- my standard userbase is using old Pentium I computers for thin clients. :)
| |
| 08:46 | <Ankleteeth> Well, I've got nothing against CPUs going that low in speed
| |
| 08:46 | I would at least like most web applications to run flawlessly though
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| 08:46 | Pascal_1 has quit IRC | |
| 08:47 | <Ankleteeth> and they may with a 200Mhz thin client, but I wouldnt know :P
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| 08:47 | mhterres has quit IRC | |
| 08:47 | <Shawn_Powers> I'll try to test 'em a bit later, but I'm working at the school here, plus I"m responsible for the shenanagans at the Linux Journal site today... so I'm kinda swamped
| |
| 08:47 | <Ankleteeth> I've only just setup ltsp on ubuntu, and had my 2.2ghz desktop boot to it, so I cant really use that as a comparison
| |
| 08:47 | <Shawn_Powers> (hehe -- yeah, 2.2Ghz is quite a thin client)
| |
| 08:48 | <Ankleteeth> lol
| |
| 08:48 | <ogra_cmpc_> Ankleteeth, i wouldnt recommend using the ebox 1000 at all with ubuntu unless you want kiosk terminals that only run firefox locally and nothing else
| |
| 08:48 | there is also no sound support
| |
| 08:49 | the old ltsp term 150 and 170 are fine for desktop use
| |
| 08:49 | <Ankleteeth> hmm
| |
| 08:49 | <ogra_cmpc_> i dont thinmk the 150 is available anymore though, it was my absolute favorite (500MHz, 128M ram)
| |
| 08:50 | warren, you stole one of my favorite co workers :( ... seems matthew garret starts at redhat soon
| |
| 08:50 | <Ankleteeth> yeah, those are nice, I should just get something I know that works
| |
| 08:50 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, I don't know anything about this.
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| 08:51 | ffhghgf is now known as navy_rat | |
| 08:51 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, well, if he started you will find he is the #1 person for any powermanagement issues ...
| |
| 08:51 | <Ankleteeth> I guess if I buy any cheapy off ebay though, chances are alot of things like sound arent going to work
| |
| 08:52 | <warren> Ankleteeth, mhz alone doesn't tell the whole story
| |
| 08:52 | <ogra_cmpc_> Ankleteeth, well, ask here with a list of specs ... we should be able to tell you what works
| |
| 08:52 | <warren> Ankleteeth, 133MHz Pentium MMX was substantially faster than that 200MHz thin client
| |
| 08:52 | <Ankleteeth> yeah I believe it
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| 08:53 | mhterres has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:53 | <Ankleteeth> I have old boxes I could use, but I was hoping for lower power consumption with think clients
| |
| 08:53 | then even
| |
| 08:53 | wow...
| |
| 08:53 | <warren> well, you also need a server to run
| |
| 08:53 | <Ankleteeth> thin*
| |
| 08:53 | yeah, got that setup
| |
| 08:54 | <Shawn_Powers> I do have some HP 5000 series thin clients that are really nice
| |
| 08:54 | I htink they were around $199 when I bought them
| |
| 08:54 | <warren> don't get me wrong, I *like* the PXE 1000 and it is definitely useful for specific cases
| |
| 08:54 | <Shawn_Powers> full sound, etc
| |
| 08:54 | <ogra_cmpc_> something around 400MHz with 128M should be fine
| |
| 08:54 | <warren> but anything with animation or regular desktop usage it isn't it
| |
| 08:54 | <Ankleteeth> Thats my goal, is to have thin clients spread about, one in the den, one in the kitchen, one in the garage, and a central server
| |
| 08:55 | that way i'm not working on something on one box, and then going elsewhere, and having to pull the file from that specific box
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| 08:56 | gonzaloaf has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:56 | <Ankleteeth> of course really, I just ideally want to have a browser handy in every room
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| 08:56 | <Shawn_Powers> You could always buy a laptop... ;)
| |
| 08:56 | * Shawn_Powers can be an arse | |
| 08:56 | <Ankleteeth> haha :P
| |
| 08:57 | too much work to move laptop from room to room though...
| |
| 08:58 | or too lazy c_c
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| 08:58 | laptop never tends to leave the bedroom...
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| 09:05 | Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:10 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, today's rawhide report, we've dropped rpm and yum in favor of dpkg and apt.
| |
| 09:11 | <jammcq> hahahhaha, that's soooo funny
| |
| 09:11 | * jammcq crawls back under his rock | |
| 09:12 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, really ? we decided exactly the opposite for ubuntu ... at least for the commercial enterprise edition
| |
| 09:12 | <warren> URL?
| |
| 09:12 | <ogra_cmpc_> gah, you got me
| |
| 09:13 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: leaking sensitive information again?
| |
| 09:13 | <ogra_cmpc_> happy first of april though :)
| |
| 09:13 | vagrantc, all the time
| |
| 09:14 | <warren> vagrantc, somebody keeps leaking our source
| |
| 09:14 | <ogra_cmpc_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003510.html was my favorite april 1st today
| |
| 09:14 | the community freaked out :)
| |
| 09:18 | warren, this one isnt bad either http://www.bstock.com/Lirpa1.htm
| |
| 09:18 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, a few years ago one of my co-workers made this for April 1st http://www.offshoreexecutive.com/
| |
| 09:18 | <ogra_cmpc_> could help us with ltsp
| |
| 09:18 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, he continues to get threatening e-mail today =)
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| 09:19 | <ogra_cmpc_> heh
| |
| 09:21 | * vagrantc pushes the ldm patches for i18n | |
| 09:24 | <warren> vagrantc, oh?
| |
| 09:25 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, you surely sleep to much
| |
| 09:25 | <vagrantc> warren: i marked a debian bug as request for help, and someone provided a patch :)
| |
| 09:25 | <ogra_cmpc_> :)
| |
| 09:25 | we're translateable now !
| |
| 09:25 | vagrantc, did you find the switch for the ifdef ?
| |
| 09:25 | <vagrantc> it may need a couple more fixes, but (clearly) i felt it was commit worthy :)
| |
| 09:25 | <warren> although the language names are still incoherent
| |
| 09:26 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: no, haven't figured that out yet.
| |
| 09:26 | warren: yes, but the user-interface at least can be translated
| |
| 09:26 | even if the list of languages isn't.
| |
| 09:26 | <warren> vagrantc, did you check in an initial .pot file?
| |
| 09:26 | <ogra_cmpc_> the list of langs first needs descritive names
| |
| 09:26 | <vagrantc> i think they're technically two separate, though related, issues.
| |
| 09:27 | <Shawn_Powers> ok, shameless self promotion, but I think it's funny as heck http://www.linuxjournal.com (I'm the guy in the video on the right)
| |
| 09:27 | <warren> see how the new rewrite of gdm does languages
| |
| 09:28 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc, for the langs i'd just build dep on gdm and steal everything from there :)
| |
| 09:28 | warren, is that released already ?
| |
| 09:28 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, upstream and in Fedora 9
| |
| 09:29 | <ogra_cmpc_> for the sessions we need to patch ldminfod to also provide the session names out of the 0desktop file
| |
| 09:29 | .desktop
| |
| 09:29 | <warren> does ldm already use pango?
| |
| 09:29 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, upstream as in gnome 2.22 ?
| |
| 09:29 | i dont think so
| |
| 09:29 | <warren> gdm displays the language names using the native character sets
| |
| 09:29 | <ogra_cmpc_> ouch
| |
| 09:29 | <warren> well, you really need that
| |
| 09:30 | <ogra_cmpc_> that forces a lot of fonts into the chroot
| |
| 09:30 | <warren> yes it does
| |
| 09:30 | <ogra_cmpc_> which makes X startup slow
| |
| 09:30 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, oh, here's the thing
| |
| 09:30 | <ogra_cmpc_> i had that
| |
| 09:30 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, if the font is missing it doesn't bother to display the language.
| |
| 09:30 | <ogra_cmpc_> urgh
| |
| 09:30 | <daduke> muh2000_: sorry, was in a meeting... yes, I use lts.conf
| |
| 09:30 | <ogra_cmpc_> thats even more evil
| |
| 09:30 | <warren> go complain upstream
| |
| 09:30 | <ogra_cmpc_> fine for local gdm installs though
| |
| 09:30 | but bad for our usecase
| |
| 09:30 | Pascal_1 has left #ltsp | |
| 09:31 | <vagrantc> that's why we need something like a font server for X windows :)
| |
| 09:32 | * vagrantc hides | |
| 09:32 | <ogra_cmpc_> heh
| |
| 09:32 | <vagrantc> warren: thanks for the offshoreexecutive.com link :)
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| 09:33 | praveer_cool has quit IRC | |
| 09:33 | <warren> vagrantc, need to hire an executive? I get paid commissions if I refer you.
| |
| 09:33 | =)
| |
| 09:35 | vagrantc, the sad thing is that offshoreexecutives might become more expensive than local executives with USD evaluation.
| |
| 09:35 | devaluation*
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| 09:35 | <ogra_cmpc_> nowadays for sure
| |
| 09:35 | <vagrantc> and europe isn't foolish enough to use US executives ... or is it?
| |
| 09:36 | <ogra_cmpc_> some are .... we had ron sommer for german telekom
| |
| 09:37 | my last company had heaps of british guys in the upper management
| |
| 09:37 | also some US
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| 09:40 | mikkel has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:41 | slidesinger has quit IRC | |
| 09:41 | <warren> -# Copyright (C) YEAR Scott Balneaves
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| 09:41 | +# Copyright (C) YEAR THE PACKAGE'S COPYRIGHT HOLDER
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| 09:41 | vagrantc, ?
| |
| 09:42 | <vagrantc> warren: it's a template. we maybe shouldn't even include it in revision control, as it is auto-generated.
| |
| 09:42 | <warren> yeah
| |
| 09:42 | <vagrantc> well, should be auto-generated.
| |
| 09:43 | though i've kept the other .pot files in revision control ... just to keep it easy to have around ... also makes it possible to update the comments as notes to translators
| |
| 09:44 | but i guess we could auto-generate that as well, with the comments added as a header template
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| 09:51 | <warren> vagrantc, it is standard to have the .pot and .po files in revision control
| |
| 09:51 | vagrantc, although more complicated will be giving translators direct access to translate it
| |
| 09:51 | vagrantc, we might need to put it into a separate bzr tree
| |
| 09:52 | translators really don't like to go through intermediaries
| |
| 09:52 | especially when there are multiple and they can easily step on each other
| |
| 09:52 | <vagrantc> up till now, we've mostly just been using debian's translation infrastructure (and sometimes ubuntu's) ... this is about to get very interesting.
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| 09:53 | <warren> https://translate.fedoraproject.org/
| |
| 09:53 | Transifex is our project (this is our instance of it) that allows translators to do it on the website (gateways to the SCM) or directly to SCM.
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| 09:55 | <vagrantc> warren: debian's process typically involves posting requests to l10n mailing lists, where it is (usually) peer reviewed and then posted as a bug report against the appropriate package.
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| 09:55 | it's mostly used for strings only within debian, but i've been using it for "upstream" ltsp as well.
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| 09:55 | slidesinger has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:56 | <vagrantc> as a multiple-distro-oriented upstream for ltsp ... i'm not quite sure how we'll want to handle this.
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| 09:57 | <warren> vagrantc, exactly like GNOME
| |
| 09:57 | vagrantc, allow translators to checkin directly to the source control
| |
| 09:57 | meaning we have to split it into a separate repository and occasionally sync it over
| |
| 09:58 | for releases
| |
| 09:58 | err... tags
| |
| 09:59 | <vagrantc> how about just maintaining a branch that's translations only, and we merge it?
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| 10:00 | Q-FUNK has quit IRC | |
| 10:01 | <warren> vagrantc, yeah, that's the idea.
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| 10:01 | vagrantc, ltsp-l10n or something
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| 10:01 | <vagrantc> and ldm-l10n, and ltspfs-l10n (if it becomes needed)
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| 10:02 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, http://cyberorg.kicks-ass.org/ltsp/ldm-trunk.i18n/
| |
| 10:02 | * ogra_cmpc_ sighs while fixing up dhcpd's suspend/hibernate scripts | |
| 10:02 | <warren> *unless*
| |
| 10:02 | ogra_cmpc_, does launchpad allow you to give commit access only to certain directories/files to a different group?
| |
| 10:02 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, it works http://pastebin.ca/965893 the build log, i had posted this earlier, just after you left
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| 10:03 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: is this based on the recent commits?
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| 10:03 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, no idea
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| 10:03 | but i dont think so
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| 10:03 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, i applied the patch that you posted, and minor change i made on that
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| 10:03 | in two different commits
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| 10:03 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, do you want to restrict access per distro ?
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| 10:03 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: oh, i just committed the patch ...
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| 10:04 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, no, l10n
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| 10:04 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, ok, then see the last commit in my branch
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| 10:04 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: i'll just try and merge and see what happens :)
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| 10:05 | <cyberorg> i have de.po and fr.po installed
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| 10:05 | *.mo, sorry
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| 10:05 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, thats what LP has rosetta for ... it can monitor our .po files in the branch, the translators have thier own group ACLs in the rosetta frontend
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| 10:05 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, URL?
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| 10:05 | <ogra_cmpc_> https://translations.launchpad.net/
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| 10:05 | <vagrantc> still non-free software?
| |
| 10:06 | <ogra_cmpc_> ldm isnt registered yet, but the translatorss are awesomly fast ...
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| 10:06 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, it is a service :)
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| 10:06 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: yes, i prefer to minimize dependence on non-free services.
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| 10:06 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc, why does it need to be free ... as long as you can access all data freely .... its a tool
| |
| 10:07 | the translation files are all freely accessible
| |
| 10:07 | all rosetta adds is ACL and a webfrontend for editing, evqaluating and judging QA for the strings
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| 10:07 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: it doesn't have to be free, but for all the reasons i like free software, i prefer to not be dependent on non-free tools.
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| 10:07 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 10:08 | <ogra_cmpc_> you dont depend on anything, you can grab all the files at every time from the tool, they are all standard gettext
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| 10:08 | it just provides frontends for editing and an awesome translator community for free
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| 10:09 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, do you have translators for the asian languages/
| |
| 10:09 | Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.
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| 10:09 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: well, if translators get used to that tool and no others, and we loose it, then we're not in a good place.
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| 10:09 | <warren> vagrantc, it sounds like an optional gateway for translators to edit the .po files without needing us to get involved.
| |
| 10:09 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages
| |
| 10:09 | <vagrantc> warren: exactly
| |
| 10:10 | <ogra_cmpc_> look for zh
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| 10:10 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, does it disallow people from doing it directly in bzr?
| |
| 10:10 | <ogra_cmpc_> it only pulls the pot file from a given url
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| 10:10 | and we can pull the translations back in from it
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| 10:10 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, it is integrated into the bzr right?
| |
| 10:10 | <ogra_cmpc_> its a separate tool
| |
| 10:10 | <warren> oh
| |
| 10:11 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: can we have it automatically detect which languages, rather than maintaining that in a separate file?
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| 10:11 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, that is the standard way to do it, all languages has to go in LINGUAS file
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| 10:12 | it is just one time task, that file won't be touched once all the po files are in
| |
| 10:12 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, it uses the same backends
| |
| 10:12 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: so, rather than simply dropping a new .po file in the directory, you also have to remember to edit the LINGUAS file ...
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| 10:12 | cyberorg: doesn't that seem ... redundant?
| |
| 10:13 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, yes :) better than adding it to configure.ac
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| 10:13 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: in ltsp-trunk/po it just detects all the .po files present and includes them.
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| 10:13 | granted, we're not using autotools
| |
| 10:13 | with ltsp
| |
| 10:14 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, via script?
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| 10:14 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: what's with the --force options ?
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| 10:15 | gonzaloaf_test has quit IRC | |
| 10:15 | <cyberorg> maintaining LINGUAS file has several advantages, you can remove the languages that prevents building due to bad po files
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| 10:15 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, have a look aoround with a real app https://translations.launchpad.net/audacious/1.4/+pots/audacious
| |
| 10:16 | <cyberorg> --force: Replace existing files if they exist
| |
| 10:17 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, heh, Japanese has nothing
| |
| 10:18 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: could you try and merge ldm-trunk and resolve the conflicts?
| |
| 10:18 | <ogra_cmpc_> for audacious
| |
| 10:18 | :)
| |
| 10:18 | its only one app
| |
| 10:18 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, just apply last commit of mine over what you have
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| 10:19 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:19 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, but feel free to add a translation :) just click on the lang and you can make suggestions in the webform ... the translators will surely review it :)
| |
| 10:20 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, how can translators review it if there aren't any for that langauge?
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| 10:20 | <ogra_cmpc_> there is surely a general japanese team
| |
| 10:21 | just none that cares for audacious specifically
| |
| 10:21 | they will be notified
| |
| 10:21 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: ok. then we loose your commit message.
| |
| 10:21 | <ogra_cmpc_> if you check "Someone should review this translation "
| |
| 10:21 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, never mind that :)
| |
| 10:22 | just add "minor modifications to i18n infrastructure"
| |
| 10:22 | * vagrantc uses bzr --shelve magic to make everything cool. | |
| 10:22 | <vagrantc> er, bzr shelve
| |
| 10:23 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, https://translations.launchpad.net/audacious/1.4/+pots/audacious/ja/+export would then give you .po and .mo (thats scriptable as well, so you could pull them at packge build time to get the very latest for example)
| |
| 10:23 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, should I interpret everything purple as "translated in ubuntu but we didn't bother pushing it upstream"?
| |
| 10:24 | <ogra_cmpc_> ?
| |
| 10:24 | i think that means its packaged in an ubuntu language pack directly from the LP files
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| 10:24 | K_O-Gnom has quit IRC | |
| 10:25 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: i didn't know about the author/comitter distingushing ...
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| 10:25 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, --author "someone <someone@somewhere>" -m "changelog message"
| |
| 10:26 | <vagrantc> that's really cool :)
| |
| 10:26 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, no matter if upstream uses it or not, its up to the translators to push stuff upstream
| |
| 10:26 | or up to upstream to use rosetta for trnslations
| |
| 10:27 | <warren> I might point out that is again the "making it available" fallacy
| |
| 10:27 | That is NOT the same thing as being proactive with upstream.
| |
| 10:28 | jcastro, ^^
| |
| 10:30 | <vagrantc> if you have several different translations going several different directions with several different sets of strings ... it's going to get ugly and difficult to merge.
| |
| 10:30 | * ogra_cmpc_ dies http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/superpiipii.html?cpg=70H | |
| 10:31 | slidesinger has quit IRC | |
| 10:34 | <cyberorg> hi guys, i would like to share this great news that just arrived, wyse is going to buy kiwi-ltsp technology for whopping USD $30 Million
| |
| 10:35 | <warren> what exactly are they buying?
| |
| 10:35 | <cyberorg> warren, everything we worked so far ;)
| |
| 10:35 | <warren> are they making it proprietary?
| |
| 10:35 | <cyberorg> they saw the prebuilt image and were impressed, no it will be open sourced
| |
| 10:35 | <warren> kiwi-ltsp was already open sourced?
| |
| 10:36 | <cyberorg> they will be hiring about 100 developers in china to work on it further
| |
| 10:36 | <warren> Well, this makes sense, because wyse's previous images really sucked.
| |
| 10:36 | cyberorg, what does this mean to Novell doing LTSP? They just sold that "division" away and no longer do it themselves?
| |
| 10:36 | <cyberorg> warren, novell never did ltsp
| |
| 10:37 | http://www.novell.com/products/thinclient/
| |
| 10:37 | <warren> then what was kiwi?
| |
| 10:38 | <cyberorg> kiwi is open source project, different than what novell uses for the above ^^
| |
| 10:38 | kiwi is not even hosted at novell
| |
| 10:38 | <warren> I'm confused
| |
| 10:38 | what exactly is kiwi then?
| |
| 10:39 | <cyberorg> warren, it is distro independent imaging technology
| |
| 10:39 | http://kiwi.berlios.de/
| |
| 10:39 | <warren> Novell just happened to be involved with it?
| |
| 10:40 | <cyberorg> novell's technology was known as Point Of Sale (not piece of shit)
| |
| 10:40 | <warren> What is the relationship between Novell and kiwi in the past?
| |
| 10:40 | <cyberorg> warren, the kiwi developer works for novell
| |
| 10:40 | <warren> Novell wasn't shipping kiwi then?
| |
| 10:40 | cyberorg, then who received the $30 million?
| |
| 10:40 | <cyberorg> of course it is shipped on openSUSE
| |
| 10:41 | warren, i, of course, who else ;)
| |
| 10:41 | i'll give a mill to shaefi and captain_magnus
| |
| 10:41 | <warren> OK...
| |
| 10:42 | * cyberorg thinks this lasted too long | |
| 10:42 | <warren> You actually did most of the work?
| |
| 10:42 | <cyberorg> warren, do you have date command on fedora?
| |
| 10:42 | <warren> cyberorg, yeah, isn't that standard?
| |
| 10:42 | <cyberorg> warren, run it ;)
| |
| 10:43 | * jammcq gets tired of silly april fools jokes | |
| 10:43 | <warren> oh
| |
| 10:43 | cyberorg, it sounded plausible because Wyse is dumb enough to do something that foolish.
| |
| 10:43 | <cyberorg> LOL jammcq not when someone plays along
| |
| 10:45 | Gadi has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:45 | * warren silent.wav | |
| 10:45 | * vagrantc waves to Gadi | |
| 10:45 | * Gadi does big stadium wave to all | |
| 10:45 | elisboa has quit IRC | |
| 10:46 | <cyberorg> hi Gadi you missed all the excitement
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| 10:46 | gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:47 | <warren> vagrantc, ogra_cmpc_: are you folks using the standard ldm theme?
| |
| 10:47 | vagrantc, ogra_cmpc_: i want to make my own, but I want to see what other folks are using first.
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| 10:47 | staffencasa has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:47 | <vagrantc> warren: i used to ship a custom theme for debian, and made it the default, but i didn't since ldm split into a separate source package.
| |
| 10:47 | <warren> cyberorg, "Stupid company does something foolish" sounded too real.
| |
| 10:47 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, mine are in the packaging
| |
| 10:47 | <Gadi> cyberorg: do tell, /me rests head between backs of hands
| |
| 10:48 | <cyberorg> warren, :D
| |
| 10:48 | <vagrantc> warren: but the debian theme was identical to the ltsp theme with a debian logo instead
| |
| 10:48 | <warren> vagrantc, just replacing the letters with a transparent background?
| |
| 10:48 | <cyberorg> Gadi, warren is hired by wyse, will get 10 mill a year to work on ltsp
| |
| 10:48 | <vagrantc> warren: just a different logo.png ... yeah.
| |
| 10:48 | * ogra_cmpc_ ships four themes | |
| 10:49 | <Gadi> cyberorg: ur joking
| |
| 10:49 | <cyberorg> nope
| |
| 10:49 | <vagrantc> i've thought about making a separate source package for debian
| |
| 10:49 | <cyberorg> ask him
| |
| 10:49 | <vagrantc> debian theme
| |
| 10:49 | <cyberorg> i am using modified theme
| |
| 10:49 | <ogra_cmpc_> Gadi, vagrantc didnt want to, so they offered it to warren
| |
| 10:50 | <Gadi> ah - I knew warren couldnt have been the first choice :P
| |
| 10:52 | * vagrantc wonders what hppa hardware looks like | |
| 10:52 | <vagrantc> the only thing blocking ldm and ltsp is hppa now.
| |
| 10:52 | * cliebow cliebow and Gadi will team up for next season's "Biggest Loser" | |
| 10:53 | <warren> vagrantc, vaguely like a moose.
| |
| 10:53 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc, very rough silicon surface
| |
| 10:53 | * warren food | |
| 10:53 | <vagrantc> i need to hunt me down an hppa machine.
| |
| 10:53 | and kill it ... er ... build ldm and ltsp on it.
| |
| 10:54 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc, lamont does hppa in ubuntu and debian ... do you have bugs ? or does it just sit to far down the build queue ?
| |
| 10:54 | * vagrantc can't imagine eating a moose-like rough silicon surface | |
| 10:54 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: it's just way down on the build queue ... hasn't migrated to testing for 78 days because of buildd issues.
| |
| 10:54 | ogra_cmpc_: including a proper fix for the RC security bug.
| |
| 10:55 | <ogra_cmpc_> bah
| |
| 10:55 | <vagrantc> (although a partial fix was included in testing-security-updates)
| |
| 10:55 | makghosh has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:55 | * vagrantc thinks people don't properly distinguish between priority extra and priority optional | |
| 10:56 | <vagrantc> or the definitions in debian policy are poor...
| |
| 10:56 | <ogra_cmpc_> bump it temporary to essential
| |
| 10:56 | *g*
| |
| 10:56 | <vagrantc> and extra priority packages only get builds when higher priority packages are all finished
| |
| 10:57 | essential is weird.
| |
| 10:57 | it's a separate category (i.e. not priority)
| |
| 10:58 | <ogra_cmpc_> err, required i meant :)
| |
| 10:58 | <vagrantc> then it'll get pulled in by debootstrap :)
| |
| 10:58 | <ogra_cmpc_> yeah
| |
| 10:58 | make sure popcon is enabled :)
| |
| 10:58 | <vagrantc> but i think it ignores whatever priority i set on the package until the ftp-masters update the overrides
| |
| 11:03 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc, oh, i see you have an usbfloppy bug ...
| |
| 11:03 | i have one here, it doesnt register as floppy at all
| |
| 11:03 | only as /dev/sgX
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| 11:05 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: but for ltspfs, we need to treat it as a floppy
| |
| 11:05 | <ogra_cmpc_> that will need special udev rules
| |
| 11:05 | <vagrantc> unless it provides insert/eject events
| |
| 11:05 | <ogra_cmpc_> and i dont have any idea how other sg device will break through that
| |
| 11:05 | mine doesnt
| |
| 11:06 | it is a mechanical one, just has usb connection
| |
| 11:06 | the kernel doesnt treat it as floppy is the problem here
| |
| 11:06 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: can you look in it's sysfs tree for anything that might distinguish it?
| |
| 11:07 | <Gadi> ogra_cmpc_: does it also make a /dev/sda device?
| |
| 11:07 | <vagrantc> the stupid thing is, a few months back, i actually had my hands on a usb floppy drive, and i used it to confirm the problem... but it got lost when an area at freegeek got cleaned.
| |
| 11:08 | <Gadi> usually usb-storage will claim it and create /dev/sda
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| 11:08 | <vagrantc> the floppy stratus was using used /dev/sd*
| |
| 11:08 | and the one i used
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| 11:08 | <Gadi> I have code to solve unpartitioned USB sticks that should catch that usbfloppy as well
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| 11:09 | provided it creates /dev/sda and no /dev/sda?
| |
| 11:09 | <vagrantc> oh really? :)
| |
| 11:09 | <Gadi> :D
| |
| 11:09 | its all tested and pretty
| |
| 11:09 | well, tested anyway
| |
| 11:09 | its actually a certified gadi hack
| |
| 11:09 | but it works
| |
| 11:10 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "stratus's original udev rules for usb floppies" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/491
| |
| 11:11 | <vagrantc> ATTRS{interface}=="FLOPPY" ?
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| 11:12 | <Gadi> hmm... thats a new one to me, too
| |
| 11:12 | does it work?
| |
| 11:12 | <vagrantc> worked back when i tested it...
| |
| 11:12 | <ogra_cmpc_> hmm, it doesnt get recognized at all now
| |
| 11:12 | <vagrantc> but the delayed-mounter stuff was totally different than it is now... so the patch doesn't apply anymore
| |
| 11:13 | <ogra_cmpc_> [71010.584951] usb 3-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 5
| |
| 11:13 | [71010.799491] usb 3-2: device not accepting address 5, error -71
| |
| 11:13 | doesnt look good
| |
| 11:14 | <Gadi> ogra_cmpc_: is there a floppy in the drive when you plug it in?
| |
| 11:14 | <ogra_cmpc_> yes
| |
| 11:14 | the prob is on a lower level
| |
| 11:14 | same error with or without floppy
| |
| 11:15 | <Gadi> yeah, usually those errors (error -71) is the driver not being able to talk to the device controller
| |
| 11:15 | if you can, try a different usb port
| |
| 11:15 | <ogra_cmpc_> tried all two the classmate has :)
| |
| 11:17 | * vagrantc looks, as if through a hazy fog, at a bzr branch that seems to be whisps of ether http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/jetpipe/ | |
| 11:17 | <ogra_cmpc_> heh
| |
| 11:17 | thats the C rewrite i think
| |
| 11:17 | <vagrantc> yeah.
| |
| 11:17 | <ogra_cmpc_> but not finished afaik
| |
| 11:18 | <vagrantc> i also recently took a look at p910nd again
| |
| 11:21 | <ogra_cmpc_> does it offer more than jetpipe ?
| |
| 11:21 | i actually like how simple jetpipe is
| |
| 11:22 | <vagrantc> don't really know
| |
| 11:22 | we could probably start the python jetpipe from udev
| |
| 11:22 | if the C jetpipe isn't ready
| |
| 11:22 | <ogra_cmpc_> its 30 lines of python or so
| |
| 11:22 | really really small
| |
| 11:23 | <vagrantc> unfortunately, python is a little resource-intensive for pass-through printing as a daemon ...
| |
| 11:23 | would it make sense to run on-demand through inetd ?
| |
| 11:23 | <ogra_cmpc_> that means inetd in the chrrot
| |
| 11:23 | *chroot
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| 11:24 | bad idea imho
| |
| 11:24 | <vagrantc> or micro-inetd, which can be run for a single daemon on a single port
| |
| 11:24 | <ogra_cmpc_> i'd propose udev
| |
| 11:25 | that doesnt add extra daemons and will only start it on demand
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| 11:25 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:25 | <ogra_cmpc_> even though io dont know much about udev vs parallel port
| |
| 11:25 | <vagrantc> i also want to work on cdpinger through udev ... but that pretty much means dealing with debian bug #454478, ltspfsd should not recommends ldm
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| 11:26 | i.e. splitting it into ltspfsd-core and ltspfsd
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| 11:26 | <ogra_cmpc_> i'm not opposed
| |
| 11:26 | i think i mentioned that
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| 11:26 | <vagrantc> yesright
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| 11:26 | i also want to move the ltspfsd code out of the ltsp init script(s)
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| 11:27 | <ogra_cmpc_> makes sense
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| 11:27 | <vagrantc> so probably ltspfsd needs it's own daemon
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| 11:27 | <ogra_cmpc_> initscript you mean
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| 11:27 | <vagrantc> yeah
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| 11:27 | <ogra_cmpc_> it is a daemon already :)
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| 11:27 | get out of the sun dude
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| 11:27 | :)
| |
| 11:28 | <vagrantc> i'm getting snow-blindness
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| 11:28 | <ogra_cmpc_> heh
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| 11:28 | <warren> yeah, I really want to stop using inetd/xinetd
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| 11:28 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, for what ?
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| 11:28 | <vagrantc> what's so evil about inetd?
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| 11:28 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, anything at all
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| 11:29 | <ogra_cmpc_> and do what with the processes these handled ?
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| 11:29 | <vagrantc> write standalone daemons for everything?
| |
| 11:29 | <ogra_cmpc_> ugh
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| 11:29 | <vagrantc> i think most of what we're currently using inetd for is pretty much an appropriate use
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| 11:29 | <ogra_cmpc_> yep
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| 11:31 | <warren> hm
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| 11:31 | I guess my main problem is inetd for tftpd
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| 11:32 | <ogra_cmpc_> for things like ldminfod it would even just be wasted resources
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| 11:32 | to run something permanently
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| 11:32 | same goes for tftp
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| 11:33 | <warren> xinetd solved the "having to add stuff to a single text file" problem only to introduce a new problem
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| 11:33 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, doesnt have fedora a default way to provide tftp ?
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| 11:33 | <warren> "the /etc/xinetd.d/* files are modified merely to enable them"
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| 11:33 | ogra_cmpc_, via xinetd
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| 11:34 | <ogra_cmpc_> i didnt even made that choice in ubuntu but use the distro default
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| 11:34 | *make
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| 11:34 | and i think we should just leave it to the distro defaults ...
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| 11:35 | all that matters is that your files are in the right place
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| 11:35 | my ltsp server side doesnt touch the tftp config anyhow ... all i do is depending on tftpd-hpa ... and copy the files into the right dir
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| 11:36 | (dir being also teh distro default)
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| 11:36 | and i think vagrant does exactly the same
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| 11:43 | warren, btw, do your daemons properly suspend and resume ? school admins/teachers love to use suspend or hibernate on classroom servers
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| 11:43 | <vagrantc> well, ltsp-update-kernels will copy to both /tftpboot and /var/lib/tftpboot if they are both present.
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| 11:44 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, they do? why?
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| 11:44 | <gvy> (leaving for home) vagrantc, hope to get back to commit reordering/merging tomorrow -- is it possible you'll have some more time to help with that?
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| 11:44 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, I think it would work
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| 11:44 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, just because i ported our dhcpd scripts over to pm-utils today ...
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| 11:45 | <warren> gotta go to an appointment now
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| 11:45 | ogra_cmpc_, ah yeah, I will have to look at that
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| 11:47 | <gvy> we'll rearrange commits so that at least more easy merges can be merged
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| 11:47 | <vagrantc> gvy: possibly some tomorrow. after that, i'll probably be focusing on debian for a while.
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| 11:47 | <gvy> vagrantc, thx :)
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| 11:47 | <vagrantc> gvy: that would be awesome.
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| 11:48 | gvy: after all, i did get sponsored to come here for debian ltsp stuff :)
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| 11:48 | <gvy> vagrantc, re is_yes or boolean_is_false -- led tells he used that to test for custom vars in ltsp_config (being concerned that merging e.g. compache-related vars upstream might be tougher since these require custom kernel)
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| 11:49 | so hope we'll have some more discussion over the (current) rest and get back to you :)
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| 11:49 | <vagrantc> gvy: sure. we'll work something out eventually
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| 11:49 | <ogra_cmpc_> gvy, is compcache ever likely to go upstream ?
| |
| 11:50 | its a pretty heavy hack
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| 11:51 | <gvy> ogra_cmpc_, don't know... we use it in thin client-specific kernel (that's custom for different reason, net swap anti-deadlock patches by Peter Zijlstra)
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| 11:51 | so no big deal
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| 11:51 | <ogra_cmpc_> (i like it a lot though, but i doubt it will ever hit upstream)
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| 11:51 | <vagrantc> it's more than just a module?
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| 11:51 | <ogra_cmpc_> that excludes it for most of the participating distros as default option
| |
| 11:51 | vagrantc, i think it involves kernel patches
| |
| 11:52 | i'm going to focus a bit on subnotebook ram reduction in intrepid and will take a deep look
| |
| 11:52 | and discuss it with our kernel team
| |
| 11:52 | <vagrantc> my quick glance suggested module... but if it requires kernel patching...
| |
| 11:52 | <ogra_cmpc_> i dont get wht you need a separate blockdevice instead of just applying the compression to the ram
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| 11:53 | <vagrantc> already recieved a spanish translation for ldm :)
| |
| 11:53 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc, i think the kernel needs lzma patches
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| 11:53 | vagrantc, saw that :)
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| 11:53 | <vagrantc> oh, those nasty things.
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| 11:53 | <ogra_cmpc_> they are so fast
| |
| 11:54 | <gvy> another variable change deals with udev (there's code to stop it after initial /dev population so that 16M RAM is OK :)
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| 11:54 | <ogra_cmpc_> how would any of the hw detection work then ?
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| 11:54 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: i'll be meeting the submitter of the es.po for ldm tomorrow, i think.
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| 11:54 | <ogra_cmpc_> hehe
| |
| 11:55 | <gvy> what (runtime) hw detection on 16M system???
| |
| 11:55 | <ogra_cmpc_> pay him a beer from me
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| 11:55 | <gvy> those didn't have usb outside mobo usually :)
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| 11:55 | ogra_cmpc_, so sorta tradeoff :)
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| 11:55 | <ogra_cmpc_> gvy, that means a lot patches to distro packages by definition of ltsp5
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| 11:56 | <gvy> ogra_cmpc_, well we didn't patch udev (and live with a hook in stock startup scripts by now)
| |
| 11:56 | <ogra_cmpc_> since we wont sipt patched binaries in ltsp ... by definition it has to be distro packages
| |
| 11:56 | *ship
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| 11:56 | <gvy> yup
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| 11:56 | *spit :)
| |
| 11:56 | <ogra_cmpc_> heh
| |
| 11:56 | * gvy . o O ( ltsp4 was like "dump" :) | |
| 11:56 | <ogra_cmpc_> right
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| 11:57 | <gvy> ogra_cmpc_, in short, we support that definition 100%
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| 11:57 | <ogra_cmpc_> if you do it in startup scripts that wont apply to initramfs
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| 11:57 | <gvy> initial udev has much smaller footprint... and isn't around by the time init kicks in [here]
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| 11:58 | <ogra_cmpc_> so it wouldnt help in debian or ubuntu, we'd both need initramfs hooks for that
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| 11:58 | <gvy> so it's as well custom as you can see :) the question is how could we better merge custom things w/o spoiling anything common, right?
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| 11:59 | <ogra_cmpc_> we cant ... every distro uses its own initramfs builders ...
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| 11:59 | <gvy> vagrantc, btw could a functions-local hook in functions be reasonable or a gaping hole for abuse? :)
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| 11:59 | <ogra_cmpc_> with stuff you do in there you are alone usually
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| 11:59 | <gvy> ogra_cmpc_, yup
| |
| 11:59 | <vagrantc> gvy: actually, i pretty much was thinking that's exactly the direction we should be heading ...
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| 12:00 | gvy: and have some common functions like ... detect_architecture ... in which the implementation was distro-specific, but the function name and how it is called and what it does is the same across distros
| |
| 12:01 | <ogra_cmpc_> that sounds very sane
| |
| 12:01 | <gvy> vagrantc, yes; i guess that would help microforks a bit too much but then again we can try to set up "deforking parties" to review the code which might be commoditized
| |
| 12:02 | <Led> like [ -f /usr/share/ltsp/finctions-$VENDOR ] && . /usr/share/ltsp/finctions-$VENDOR
| |
| 12:02 | <ogra_cmpc_> $VENDOR fictions
| |
| 12:02 | <gvy> (probably not exactly $VENDOR)
| |
| 12:02 | yeah
| |
| 12:02 | <vagrantc> basically, yes. although we might want to hard-code $VENDOR when building the package.
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| 12:03 | <gvy> vagrantc, i just told "build time" here 8)
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> sure
| |
| 12:03 | * ogra_cmpc_ prefers real vendors to fictionary ones | |
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| 12:11 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: where's the intltoolize program come from?
| |
| 12:11 | muh2000_ has quit IRC | |
| 12:12 | <cyberorg> intltool-0.37.1-4
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| 12:14 | <yopla> heelo, is there a developper?
| |
| 12:14 | of ldm
| |
| 12:14 | <johnny> hi ltsp folks
| |
| 12:15 | <vagrantc> yopla: a few have been known to frequent this channel.
| |
| 12:15 | !question
| |
| 12:15 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
| |
| 12:15 | <yopla> sorry! Question : ldm-5-0-39. I've added a gtk label
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| 12:16 | <ogra_cmpc_> gvy, minimal requirement for ltsp5 per client with gnome or kde desktop is 128M per session for the server, how to you get 20+ clients out of 2048M if the server itself needs 256M to operate at least ?
| |
| 12:16 | <yopla> I need to fill it with a LDM_ like var from lts.conf
| |
| 12:17 | it is to dispaly per host message opn login screen
| |
| 12:17 | <gvy> ogra_cmpc_, hm, my feeling is currently "100M with enough tabs"
| |
| 12:17 | but then again, altlinux comes with -Wl,--as-needed by default
| |
| 12:18 | considerable PITA with broken upstreams but it pays :)
| |
| 12:18 | <ogra_cmpc_> gvy, we choose that default because even if everyone uses oo.o and ff at the same time on a gnome or kde desktop it will still work ...
| |
| 12:18 | <gvy> e.g. gdm went down from 19 to 10 libs and 5% faster timed startup
| |
| 12:19 | ogra_cmpc_, well np :) i think he still should have enough reserve with 2 gigs
| |
| 12:19 | <ogra_cmpc_> indeed
| |
| 12:19 | <yopla> i thght about ldminfo_init is that right?
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| 12:19 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: hrm. after applying your patches to ldm, i can't get ./autogen.sh to run ...
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| 12:19 | * gvy is away: ~ | |
| 12:20 | <gvy> thanks folks, really should run off the office
| |
| 12:20 | bb!
| |
| 12:20 | <ogra_cmpc_> ciao
| |
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| 12:20 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, error?
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| 12:21 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "ldm ./autogen.sh error" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/492
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| 12:21 | <ogra_cmpc_> yopla, all lts.conf vars are exported as global vars ... if you feed it from an LDM_* variable via lts.conf just using getenv() should work
| |
| 12:22 | <yopla> wow great
| |
| 12:22 | I try this
| |
| 12:23 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: seems to be glib-gettextize
| |
| 12:23 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, i get that too, echo $? returns 0 so it completed successfully
| |
| 12:24 | <vagrantc> that's awfully noisy for a sucessful thingy.
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| 12:24 | <ogra_cmpc_> not very unix style
| |
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| 12:30 | <yopla> Wouwou ! thanks for the trick. It works like a charm
| |
| 12:30 | <ogra_cmpc_> :)
| |
| 12:31 | <yopla> could it be integrated in the next ldmgtkgreeter?
| |
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| 12:33 | <ogra_cmpc_> mail a patch to the ltsp-devel list or supply a bzr branch with the changes
| |
| 12:33 | <yopla> Ok, i'll do it tomorrow
| |
| 12:34 | have a nice day
| |
| 12:34 | bye
| |
| 12:34 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc, LP supports team based mailing lists since a week or so ... would it make sense to activate that and default to send commits to that ? (abuse that feature as public ltsp-upstream-commits list)
| |
| 12:34 | ciao yopla
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| 12:35 | <ogra_cmpc_> so people can get commits from gmane etc if they want
| |
| 12:36 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc_: maybe a good idea.
| |
| 12:36 | ogra_cmpc_: well ... if it's an optional subscription ...
| |
| 12:36 | <johnny> dberkholz, do you know what url i use to commit to the overlay?
| |
| 12:39 | <dberkholz> johnny: the same one you checked it out with, if you did it right =P
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| 12:41 | git+ssh://git@git.overlays.gentoo.org/proj/ltsp
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| 12:41 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc, i have to check that, just noticed the new feature
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| 12:43 | <johnny> ok.. just making sure
| |
| 12:43 | checking out worked, but pushing not so much :)
| |
| 12:44 | ok wait..
| |
| 12:44 | no.. pulling doesn't work
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| 12:44 | <johnny> ERROR:gitosis.serve.main:Repository read access denied
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| 12:45 | <dberkholz> johnny: you've got the protocol and username the same as above in your .git/config ?
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| 12:45 | <johnny> uhmm.. no :) i'm just going by the instructions i've found on the overlay site
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| 12:45 | didn't see anything about ~/.git/config, i only see a ~/.gitconfig
| |
| 12:46 | in my home that is
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| 12:46 | <dberkholz> johnny: those are for users, not developers, and .git is in your cloned repository, not your home directory
| |
| 12:46 | johnny: i was under the impression that you already had a copy of the repository with your commits in it. is that not the case?
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| 12:47 | <johnny> not the overlay
| |
| 12:47 | ok.. so cloning is what doesn't work .. the last working one i had was anonymous
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| 12:47 | but i deleted that one
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| 12:47 | <dberkholz> johnny: you can easily change that by simply editing .git/config as i mentioned
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| 12:48 | <dberkholz> if you can't get a clone using the above url, either you didn't get access set up properly or your ssh key isn't on your system
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| 12:49 | <johnny> i'm guessing the first
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| 12:51 | <dberkholz> johnny: so `git clone git+ssh://git@git.overlays.gentoo.org/proj/ltsp` gives you that read denied error?
| |
| 12:52 | <johnny> yes
| |
| 12:52 | <dberkholz> johnny: ok, the overlays people should be able to fix that if you contact them
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| 12:52 | <johnny> yes.. waiting for it :)
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| 12:53 | i've just been cleaning up my ebuilds anyways
| |
| 12:54 | removing spaces and stuff
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| 15:29 | <warren> ogra_cmpc_, do you know if it is easy to test the ldm gtkgreeter standalone? (to help the artist in theme development)
| |
| 15:29 | ogra_cmpc_, does your theme stick to 256 colors?
| |
| 15:30 | <Pascal> bonsoir
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| 17:03 | <vagrantc> otavio: what to do about slow buildd's for ldm? now hppa is the staller. the last couple months it's been mips* ... sometimes alpha has fallen behind. and once in a while it's sparc. ldm hasn't migrated to testing since early january, and the only reason is one buildd or another holds it up.
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| 17:13 | <otavio> vagrantc: see if you can find someone you get it build there.
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| 17:14 | vagrantc: I'm with hardware problems right now and can't take a look at it for you
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| 17:14 | vagrantc: I guess I can help you better later today/tomorrow
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| 17:14 | <vagrantc> otavio: good luck with that :)
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| 17:14 | <sutula> What do people use in a classroom situation with ltsp, when you want the instructor to be able to view all the student's screens? Something like vnc that works well under X? Preferably something the students don't have to explicitly run?
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| 17:14 | <vagrantc> otavio: tomorrow i'll be in extremadura :)
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| 17:15 | <otavio> vagrantc: oh, that's great.
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| 17:15 | vagrantc: you can probably find someone over there to upload it.
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> sutula: the best i've heard of is italc, but last i knew it is typically run as the user ... not sure if they have to explicitly start it ... probably not hard to add it to /etc/X11/Xsession.d
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> sutula: but i say this having not really used it much.
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| 17:17 | <sutula> vagrantc: Thanks...I'll read up on it. Just looking for suggestions from anyone.
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> sutula: i'll be with the debian-edu folks in extremadura the next few days, though... i can ask around.
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| 17:17 | <sutula> vagrantc: That would be appreciated
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| 17:22 | <warren> vagrantc, do you know if I should limit a ldm theme to any # of colors?
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| 17:32 | <vagrantc> warren: i don't think it's a requirement. of course, the fancier the theme, it will likely take *some* additional ram or maybe even disk access or whatever.
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| 17:33 | warren: though i think the number of colors that will look good to the eye might be your limiting factor :)
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| 17:34 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren, i havent run the greeter standalone since the python days, i use to develop by copying the theme bits in place on a running client and restart ldm
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| 17:35 | my themes should match 256 colors, they are ripoffs of the gdm themes
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| 17:39 | <vagrantc> but technically, going over 256 colors is or isn't feasible?
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| 17:50 | <ogra_cmpc_> gradients look odd at 16bit if you do
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| 17:58 | * vagrantc wonders if the default theme has too many colors, then. | |
| 17:58 | <vagrantc> well, too many shades of blue
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| 17:59 | it doesn't look awful, but it would be nice if it were less grainy
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| 21:35 | <hari> hi friends...
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| 21:36 | <hari> i am using ubuntu gutsy for ltsp. my server using VGA card ATI Radeon X1550. do I have installed the vga card for my clients?
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| 21:36 | rgds
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| 21:37 | I mean do I habve install the same vga card for my clients?
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| 21:45 | <sutula> hari: No
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| 21:45 | <johnny_> no
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| 21:47 | * sutula is beginning to suspect that johnny follows him :) | |
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