IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 July 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <marks256> Ahmuck_, sbalneav sound works upon reboot.
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| 00:01 | <Ahmuck_> so ... on boot, i have NVidia CK804 (Alsa mixer), Realtek ALC850 rev 0 (OSS Mixer), Playback: Intel 82801BA-ICH2 (Pulse Audio Mixer), Capture: Monitor of Intel 82801BA-ICH2 (Pulse Audio Mixer), Capture: Intel 82801BA-ICH2 (Pulse Audio Mixer)
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| 00:01 | when i loose sound, i loose all the (Pulse Audio Mixer) devices
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| 00:02 | <marks256> And upon reboot, my sound is glitchy again.
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| 00:02 | some sort of reverb delay or something
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| 00:02 | <Ahmuck_> the NVidia & Realtek is server side, not client side
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| 00:04 | <marks256> so if i turn the volume down on the client, it is no longer glitchy.
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| 00:04 | <alkisg> Ahmuck_: try to remove the user from the audio group, so that he doesn't have access to the server audio devices, to see if it helps. Logoff/logon.
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| 00:04 | <sbalneav> Ahmuck_: Pulse is probably crashing on the thin client for some reason.
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| 00:05 | <Ahmuck_> thin client is 800mhz, 512mb ram
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| 00:06 | alkisg: i noticed this in a forum post as well. wouldn't this be by defualt?
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| 00:07 | <marks256> and sound just stopped again. Rhytmbox couldn't see anymore songs (it thinks they're all missing, and sound stopped working.)
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| 00:07 | <alkisg> Ahmuck_: I'm not sure. I've filed a bug about the users being able to change the sound volume of the server instead of their own's; and that workaround was suggest by stgraber. So now I don't put my users in the audio group...
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| 00:07 | Maybe yours is a different bug, e.g. pulseaudio crashing, like sbalneav said, but maybe you would use the same workaround to prevent it from appearing.
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| 00:08 | *could
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| 00:08 | <Ahmuck_> chance on getting this changed for 9.10 so that users don't get added to audio group by default?
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| 00:09 | <sbalneav> None.
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| 00:09 | Because if you added a user to a machine normally, you'd want them in the audio group.
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| 00:09 | <alkisg> I don't know, you'd have to ask the devs. To make it the default for users-admin you can edit the /etc/gnome-system-tools/users/profiles and delete the audio group from there.
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| 00:09 | <sbalneav> right.
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| 00:10 | <Ahmuck_> for every user?
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| 00:10 | <sbalneav> LTSP's only one use case. One that requires some special fancy stuff on distros.
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| 00:11 | <alkisg> That's for new users. For existing users, if they all belong to a specific group (e.g. audio), you may use usermod in a for loop and remove them.
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| 00:11 | <marks256> WTF! A user can plug in a usb drive, but they are not allowed to unmount it???
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| 00:11 | <Ahmuck_> marks256: i don't like the WT*
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| 00:11 | <marks256> Ahmuck_, sorry.
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| 00:12 | <sbalneav> For ltsp terminals, you just pull the device out, after a second or so of inactivity.
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| 00:12 | <marks256> Ahmuck_, i won't use it here anymore
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| 00:12 | <sbalneav> There's no "eject" needed.
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| 00:12 | <marks256> sbalneav, but! but! it goes against instincts!
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| 00:12 | sbalneav, so you really don't have to un mount a drive? it won't corrupt data or anything??
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| 00:13 | <sbalneav> No, ltspfs handles syncing and unmounting the drive on the thin client automatically.
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| 00:13 | <marks256> sbalneav, i'm still hesitant...
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| 00:13 | <sbalneav> The drive looks like it's still there, but if you haven't done anything to it for two seconds, then it's unmounted.
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| 00:14 | <marks256> sbalneav, so it auto unmounts? ok. i can rest easier now just yanking a drive out :)
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| 00:14 | <Ahmuck_> nn, i've got to get sleep
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| 00:16 | <marks256> Ahmuck_, sleep is over rated ;)
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| 00:17 | <sbalneav> alkisg: I never use the graphical user add thingy: at work I have a series of self-maintained shell scripts that deal with the LDAP and server setup, etc. And at home, I just user useradd :)
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| 00:18 | <alkisg> sbalneav: me too uses useradd... to import the users from a .csv :)
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| 00:19 | Students create their own accounts on a web system, and I get all the accounts and pass them to useradd by a script... it saves them from having to remember 2 different usernames
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| 00:19 | <marks256> So i put an MP3 on a usb jump drive, and loaded it on a client with totem. It played for a while (no glitches) but then after a few minutes, i had an "error: disconnected" error, and now sound no longer works.
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| 00:20 | <sbalneav> Probably pulse crashed on the thin client.
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| 00:20 | What kind of sound hardware in the thin client?
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| 00:21 | <marks256> it is a crappy old IBM netvista tower
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| 00:21 | running at like 2.6ghz. got 2gb of ram
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| 00:23 | sbalneav, any ideas? i've used linux for a few years now, but i'm walking in new territory here with this LTSP stuff...
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| 00:25 | sbalneav, i guess it's a thinkcentre. but still. specs are the same
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| 00:30 | <sbalneav> Not sure. It's getting late here as well. Check in tomorrow, I'll see if I can find anything on that hardware.
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| 00:30 | I'm going to head to bed.
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| 00:30 | Night all
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| 00:30 | <marks256> sbalneav, thanks anyway. i should sleep too
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| 00:31 | lol
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| 02:44 | <klausade> should access to cd/dvd on the thinclient using vlc/mplayer/.. running as localapps "just work"? Or do I need to do something special? localapps works otherwise just fine.
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| 07:19 | <maginot> good morning
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| 09:37 | <clickingmouse> hi
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| 09:38 | can someone tell me what to do when the client cant boot with a could not load tftp...../pxelinux.0 connection timed out error?
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| 09:40 | <clickingmouse> anyone?
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| 09:41 | <l0C0> clickingmouse: is your server running a firewall?
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| 09:43 | <clickingmouse> i dont think so..
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| 09:43 | not sure
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| 09:43 | i downloaded a stock fedora and installed ltsp
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| 09:43 | fedora 10
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| 09:44 | <l0C0> make sure if there's a firewall running, the tftp port is open
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| 09:44 | <clickingmouse> how do i check/do that?
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| 09:45 | <l0C0> I'm an Ubuntu user, so I'm not sure where it's located in fedora
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| 09:45 | <clickingmouse> ....
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| 09:45 | <l0C0> the port is 69 anyway
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| 09:46 | <clickingmouse> how would i know if the pxelinux.0 is there?
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| 09:46 | <l0C0> tftp doesn't support file listing
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| 09:48 | <clickingmouse> i dont see tftp anywhere in my firewall..
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| 09:48 | <l0C0> which means it's probably not open
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| 09:49 | <clickingmouse> so it's a good thing?
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| 09:49 | <l0C0> you need it open if you want your client to be able to download pxelinux.0 via tftp ;)
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| 09:50 | <clickingmouse> yep it's a good thing!
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| 09:50 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:50 | <clickingmouse> not it says nfsmount error
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| 09:50 | <bieb> morning sbalneav
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| 09:50 | <ogra> !s
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| 09:50 | <ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:50 | <sbalneav> Ogra!!
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| 09:50 | <ogra> :)
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| 09:50 | <clickingmouse> nfsmount:error mounting ....i386 on /sysroot as nfs:no route to host...
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| 09:51 | what does that mean in english?
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| 09:51 | <ogra> it doesnt find your nfs server
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| 09:52 | <clickingmouse> what should i do then?
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| 09:52 | <l0C0> which could also be a firewall problem
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| 09:52 | <ogra> make it find your nfs server :) ... sorry no fedora user here ...
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| 09:52 | <l0C0> in fact, disable your server's firewall, and try booting your client
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| 09:53 | <ogra> right there could be a firewall in the way, the info your client has where to find your nfs server could be wrong or the nfs service is simply not running on the srever
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| 09:53 | <clickingmouse> okay... et me try disabling my firewall
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| 09:54 | is ltsp on fedora that bad?
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| 09:54 | <l0C0> never done ltsp on fedora
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| 09:54 | <ogra> no, but not many people are around here that know a lot about it
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| 09:54 | <sbalneav> I don't think so, but if you've got a firewall, that's going to cause some issues.
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| 09:54 | <clickingmouse> same error
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| 09:54 | <sbalneav> Is nfs running?
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| 09:55 | <clickingmouse> i disabled firewall
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| 09:56 | nfs is running
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| 09:59 | so is this a dead end?
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| 09:59 | <l0C0> nope, not at all
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| 10:00 | just because I don't know the answer, doesn't mean that it's not possible
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| 10:03 | <sbalneav> what does your /etc/exportfs file say?
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| 10:04 | <Ahmuck_> didn't redhat go to something else?
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| 10:05 | sbalneav: still up, ur time zone must be different than mine
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| 10:05 | or u need less sleep
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| 10:06 | <clickingmouse> still up
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| 10:06 | i am in china!
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| 10:07 | exportfs file does not exists...
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| 10:07 | <ogra> Ahmuck_, for sbalneav it should be around noon atm :)
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| 10:07 | <ogra> (between 10 and 12 somewhere :) )
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| 10:08 | <clickingmouse> "/opt/ltsp *(ro,async,no_root_squash)"
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| 10:11 | <Ahmuck_> ah, he's east cost
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| 10:11 | coast
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| 10:11 | <sbalneav> Ahmuck_: Central
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| 10:12 | clickingmouse: Hmm, that seems alright.
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| 10:12 | Where are your thin clients picking their dhcp up from? The thin client server?
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| 10:13 | <clickingmouse> yes
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| 10:13 | basically my setup is Internet->(server/this pc/stock fedora + ltsp) -> router/switch ->thin client
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| 10:14 | <ogra> are you sure there is no other dhcp server running on the same network
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| 10:14 | i.e. on a router
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| 10:14 | <clickingmouse> yes
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| 10:14 | very sure about that
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| 10:14 | <sbalneav> What does your dhcpd.conf file look like?
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| 10:15 | <ogra> err, wait, you have your server directly on the internat, *then* you got a router and there you route the clients from ?
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| 10:15 | <sbalneav> Can you paste it to the pastebot?
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| 10:15 | <ogra> (a *router*, not a siwthc)
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| 10:15 | *switch
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| 10:15 | <clickingmouse> i config my router as a switch
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| 10:15 | <sbalneav> ogra: Whoah, is that what he's doing? :)
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| 10:15 | <ogra> hmm
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| 10:15 | sbalneav, see his ascii diagram above :)
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| 10:15 | <clickingmouse> basically the whole darn setup was working with a ltspstock
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| 10:15 | <ogra> Internet->(server/this pc/stock fedora + ltsp) -> router/switch ->thin client
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| 10:16 | <clickingmouse> but i got this bright idea to try to setup ltsp w/ a stock fedora
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| 10:19 | <_UsUrPeR_> can someone tell me how local_apps_menu_items changes commands in the menu? I have been trying to get ltsp-localapps firefox 3.5 to work with the menus and have had no luck quite yet.
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| 10:20 | <sbalneav> I beleive it uses the ssh connetion to push some menu overrides up to the server
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| 10:24 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, your command is: ltsp-localapps firefox 3.5
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| 10:24 | ??
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| 10:24 | thats not the name of the binary :)
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| 10:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: naw. I just installed firefox-3.5 on my TC image
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| 10:25 | <ogra> right, call it as firefox-3.5
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| 10:25 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh. so "local_apps_menu_items = firefox-3.5" will work?
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| 10:26 | <ogra> might
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| 10:26 | i'm not sure on what the loaclapps menu code matches ... if its the exec line in the .desktop file it will work with that
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| 10:27 | <sbalneav> I think it's the name of the .desktop file, minus the .desktop
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| 10:27 | <ogra> if its the .desktop filename its fine as well
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| 10:28 | ogra@osiris:~$ ls /usr/share/applications/firefox*
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| 10:28 | firefox-3.5.desktop firefox.desktop
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| 10:37 | * Ahmuck_ internet --> router --> switch --> server --> switch --> thin_client | |
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| 10:39 | <Ahmuck_> ogra, installing to chroot should auto set the menu to localapps if localapps is enabled?
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| 10:39 | <ogra> i think it needs an lts.conf switch being set
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| 10:39 | but with that it should automatically replace the server entries with localapp ones
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| 10:40 | or if the app isnt on the server, add it to the menu
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| 10:42 | <_UsUrPeR_> I ogra: yeah, I have replaced/ln -s all executables
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| 10:42 | yet it's still starting via server instead of the client :/
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| 10:42 | <ogra> "replaced/ln -s all executables" ??
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| 10:42 | you dont have to replace/link *anything*
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| 10:42 | <Ahmuck_> i'm having the same problem
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| 10:43 | it appears that localapps only works if i execute from command line
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| 10:43 | <ogra> at least as i understood stgraber's implementation
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> DNS_SERVER=10.160.31.1
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| 10:43 | SEARCH_DOMAIN=ioa.sch.gr
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| 10:43 | LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
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| 10:43 | <Ahmuck_> somethings broke then or i'm stupid. i've followed the instructions anyhow
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> That's about all that's needed in lts.conf...
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| 10:44 | <ogra> http://www.stgraber.org/2009/03/31/ltsp-past-and-future
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| 10:45 | "Basically you can now install firefox in your LTSP chroot, set LOCAL_APPS_MENU to True in your lts.conf and here you go with your usual firefox running locally on your thin client. "
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| 10:46 | note that FF is *special* ... if a firefox for the same user is running it will always only attach to the running process if you call another one
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| 10:47 | so if you already have one FF running locally on the server, subsequent excutions of the binary wont start new ones on the client
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| 10:48 | <Ahmuck_> the local apps spec on the web appears to be incomplete
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| 10:48 | <ogra> which spec ?
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| 10:48 | <alkisg> link?
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| 10:49 | <Ahmuck_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ltsp-localapps
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| 10:49 | it appears to be a work in progress
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| 10:49 | <ogra> links to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ltsp/+spec/ltsp-localapps
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| 10:49 | never got implemented like that
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| 10:50 | Definition: Review
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| 10:50 | Implementation: Started
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| 10:50 | its not even approved for implementation, ignored that
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| 10:50 | *ignore even
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| 10:50 | <Ahmuck_> is the top google entry
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| 10:50 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg/ogra: so the LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS = portion is not needed?
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| 10:50 | <Ahmuck_> shouldn't there be a way to purge this?
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: it's only needed if you want to restrict local apps to a few selected ones
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| 10:51 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, as i understand LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True and *no replacing, copying linking* and it should work
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| 10:51 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm
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| 10:51 | <ogra> Ahmuck_, ask google how to purge stuff from their database :)
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| 10:51 | <_UsUrPeR_> I did an apt-get install firefox-3.5 and removed old 3.0, and it is still running it from the server :/
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: so you have ff 3.5 in the chroot? (I wonder which repo you used...)
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| 10:53 | <Ahmuck_> ogra: if the spec is no good, shouldn't it be 404'd
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| 10:53 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: correct
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| 10:53 | <Ahmuck_> it's coming right from wiki.ubuntu.com
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: ok, if you run: ltsp-localapps firefox, does it run locally?
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| 10:53 | <ogra> Ahmuck_, no, the status should be set to obsolete, thats how launchpad works
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| 10:54 | <Ahmuck_> is this why when you search for something revelant you get 10,000 links?
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| 10:54 | <ogra> Ahmuck_, its a wiki :)
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| 10:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: yes. firefox 3.5 runs locally with that command
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| 10:54 | <ogra> feel free to add a note at the top that it was implemented differently upstream and point to proper documentation
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| 10:55 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: and what do you have in lts.conf concerning local apps?
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| 10:55 | <Ahmuck_> k, where is the proper implementation at?
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| 10:56 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "lts.conf for alkisg" (3 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/441
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| 10:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkist: I had tried the following with menu_items also:
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| 10:57 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "lts.conf for alkisg" (3 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/442
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| 10:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> neither had an effect :/
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: LOCAL_APPS is true by default
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| 10:58 | So that one's not needed
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| 10:58 | What do you get by doing: env|grep XDG
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| 10:58 | on a client terminal? Not a local one, a normal gnome-terminal running on a client...
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| 11:00 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: when run from the "server", it gives me a session cookie and data dirs
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| 11:00 | so I opened a non-localapps terminal session and ran that
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| 11:02 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: no, don't run it from the server; use an LTSP client
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| 11:03 | Local apps modify the xdg data dir
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| 11:04 | (when a user logs on - so the modification won't show up on the server)
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| 11:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: I did run it from a client
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| 11:10 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: and your XDG data dir wasn't modified to include a dir on /tmp?
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| 11:11 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "XDG for alkisg" (3 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/443
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| 11:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: there's the output
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| 11:11 | <alkisg> Ah, so it's ok: /tmp/ltsp-localapps-test-SVEawL
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| 11:12 | Now, this directory should contain firefox.desktop or whatever other local app .desktop files you have. Does it?
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| 11:12 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: is that /tmp on the server or the client?
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| 11:12 | <alkisg> server
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| 11:13 | (I think :))
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| 11:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> yeah
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| 11:14 | ok, it has it has one for 3.5 in there, but I think that's because I tested it out with "ltsp-localapps firefox-3.5"
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| 11:16 | * Gadi wonders if _UsUrPeR_is clicking the little icon in the panel or is actually going to Applications > Internet > Firefox | |
| 11:16 | <ogra> ltsp-localapps firefox-3.5 shouldnt add anything to that XDG dir
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| 11:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm
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| 11:17 | <ogra> indeed, the panel icon isnt replaced by ltsp
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| 11:18 | only the menu ...
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| 11:19 | <marks256> How do i run updates on the client image?
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| 11:20 | do i chroot into it and do sudo apt-get upgrade?
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| 11:21 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: ok, I see what happened. It created a separate icon for "minefield"
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| 11:21 | I was unaware that minefield would be a firefox... "thing"
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| 11:22 | <ogra> smells like a bug in the parser for the .desktop file
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| 11:22 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: not really... It's a new icon/program name for firefox
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| 11:22 | http://www.mozilla.org/projects/minefield/
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: how did you install firefox 3.5? Using a PPA or something?
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| 11:23 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, it should be called "Shiretoko" in your menu
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| 11:23 | i dont get why it says minefiled
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| 11:23 | its not the way its packaged here
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| 11:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: just added to the sources.list
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| 11:23 | <marks256> yean it looks like i type in 'sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get upgrade
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| 11:24 | '
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| 11:24 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: ok, but *which* PPA?
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| 11:24 | <marks256> do i need to rebuild the image after updates?
| |
| 11:24 | <alkisg> The one with the daily builds?
| |
| 11:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> pa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main
| |
| 11:24 | err... ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main
| |
| 11:24 | alkisg: yeah, daily
| |
| 11:25 | <alkisg> Isn't that totally unstable for production use?
| |
| 11:25 | marks256: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
| |
| 11:25 | <marks256> alkisg, thanks i'll take a look
| |
| 11:25 | <_UsUrPeR_> yeah, totally unstable
| |
| 11:26 | <alkisg> ok
| |
| 11:26 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, there is a 3.5 in universe i thought
| |
| 11:27 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 11:31 | <bieb> sbalneav: Scott you still around?
| |
| 11:32 | <marks256> any ideas on why pulseaudio would crash on a client? it doensn't matter what client it is, it always crashes after ~2 minutes of audio listening. Audio is glitchy (slow and reverb) unless it is paused then played, or volume is adjusted. then after about 2-3 minutes it will die. A logout and login works, but repeats the cycle.
| |
| 11:34 | <sbalneav> bieb: yep, goin' for lunch shortly
| |
| 11:34 | <bieb> sbalneav: did you get the long info I sent you Friday?
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| 11:34 | <sbalneav> marks256: Have you done updates in the chroot?
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| 11:35 | bieb: Yes I did.
| |
| 11:35 | Thank you.
| |
| 11:35 | <marks256> sbalneav, no i'm doing that now.
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| 11:35 | sbalneav, at least trying.
| |
| 11:35 | <sbalneav> I beleive pulse has seen some updates, so that may help.
| |
| 11:35 | * Ahmuck_ backreading | |
| 11:35 | <bieb> sbalneav: I was talking about the one I sent here on IRC about the local user vs AD user?
| |
| 11:36 | <sbalneav> Yes. Yo've set up the wine stuff under the one user, correct?
| |
| 11:37 | <bieb> yeah it was setup under the AD user.. not the original user I created
| |
| 11:37 | <sbalneav> Now, what you'll have to do is: move that .wine/drive_c/Program Files into some kind of shared area
| |
| 11:37 | and manually set up symlinks to it for all the users you want to share the info.
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| 11:38 | <Ahmuck_> sbalneav: updates from last evening?
| |
| 11:38 | <sbalneav> No, from a month or so ago
| |
| 11:39 | Do you have -updates and -security listed in the chroot's sources.list?
| |
| 11:40 | <bieb> sbalneav: should I reinstall crossover and Office2007 under the server's initial user? then do the symlinks? When I do the ltsp-update-image, the clients dont see the "office" software
| |
| 11:41 | <sbalneav> bieb: It doesn't make a difference. You're going to have to do a *lot* of manual twiddling to get that to work, as I told you.
| |
| 11:41 | When you install a crossover office application, it just installs it *for that user*.
| |
| 11:41 | <bieb> sbalneav: ok.. I wasn't sure if part of the issue was the 2 different home directories
| |
| 11:41 | <sbalneav> To make it global will require fiddling.
| |
| 11:43 | <bieb> sbalneav: know anyone who has done it, that might have a "twiddling" how-to?
| |
| 11:44 | or some pointers?
| |
| 11:45 | <sbalneav> Not that I'm aware of, but as usual, GIYF.
| |
| 11:46 | When I did it, it was about a day's worth of tweaking.
| |
| 11:46 | I did not document it :)
| |
| 11:46 | <bieb> GIYF?
| |
| 11:46 | <sbalneav> As for pointers:
| |
| 11:46 | Use OpenOffice.org :)
| |
| 11:46 | <bieb> LOL
| |
| 11:46 | <sbalneav> Google Is Your Friend
| |
| 11:46 | <bieb> ahh
| |
| 11:47 | <sbalneav> Off for lunch, back in an hour.
| |
| 11:47 | <bieb> did you get a chance to look at the sabayon errors?
| |
| 11:47 | <sbalneav> Nope
| |
| 11:47 | <bieb> ok
| |
| 11:47 | <sbalneav> Not yet
| |
| 11:49 | <bieb> sbalneav: cool.. talk to you later.. have a good lunch
| |
| 12:03 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:22 | <marks256> sbalneav, no updates available. pulse audio seems to be broken :(
| |
| 12:24 | <vagrantc> marks256: what linux distro? versions?
| |
| 12:24 | <marks256> vagrantc, ubuntu 9.04
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> it's been borked in debian testing for a while now...
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| 12:25 | <marks256> vagrantc, so i'm not doing something wrong then? any ideas how to fix it?
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| 12:25 | vagrantc, 0.9.14 is the version of pulse audio
| |
| 12:29 | vagrantc, should i maybe use fedora?
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| 12:32 | <vagrantc> i have no idea.
| |
| 12:33 | i just know it's also broken in debian, but it would surprise me that it's broken in that version of ubuntu and nobody's noticed
| |
| 12:33 | as it's been out for several months now.
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| 12:33 | <marks256> vagrantc, i'll try fedora 11
| |
| 12:35 | gotta drive 20 miles to get the disk :)
| |
| 12:36 | <vagrantc> i'd suspect something misconfigured...
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| 12:39 | mikkel has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:50 | <sbalneav> Back
| |
| 12:52 | marks256: ii pulseaudio 1:0.9.14-0ubuntu20 PulseAudio sound server
| |
| 12:52 | Is that what you have in the chroot?
| |
| 12:57 | marks256: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=776739
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| 13:00 | fotanus has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:02 | <sbalneav> Hmm, pulse 0.9.15's been released.
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| 13:02 | I could always do a ppa.
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| 13:04 | <cliebow> marks256:you'll get better support in ubuntu/debian since wtogami is not here much anymore
| |
| 13:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> rargh
| |
| 13:18 | ok, why does seting up iptables for ip_forward always die after reboot?
| |
| 13:19 | I've added stuff to rc.local, I am doing it manually now,
| |
| 13:19 | and I can't access external networks
| |
| 13:19 | i.e. web pages with ltsp-localapps ::(
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| 13:32 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:32 | <jammcq> good afternoon friends
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| 13:34 | <cliebow> jammcq!!!
| |
| 13:35 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 13:35 | <jammcq> cliebow: hey
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| 13:36 | <cliebow> Hey!
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| 13:40 | <rjune_wrk> !j
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| 13:40 | <ltspbot> rjune_wrk: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 13:40 | <jammcq> hey rjune_wrk
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| 13:43 | <cliebow> !rj
| |
| 13:43 | <ltspbot> cliebow: Error: "rj" is not a valid command.
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| 13:43 | <cliebow> hee hee
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| 13:45 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> Ok, I can ping from client's screen_02 to google, but I cannot pull up a web site with localapp'd firefox
| |
| 13:47 | how are these incongruent?
| |
| 13:49 | <jammcq> try this: telnet www.google.com 80
| |
| 13:49 | fro the screen-02
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| 13:49 | from
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| 13:50 | <_UsUrPeR_> jammcq: command not found
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| 13:50 | <jammcq> hmm, no telnet in the crhoot
| |
| 13:50 | err... chroot :)
| |
| 13:50 | <_UsUrPeR_> that does not seem like the desired output :)
| |
| 13:54 | ok, so I can ping from screen_02, but if I run ltsp-localapps xterm and try to ping, nothing
| |
| 13:54 | this is in line with firefox
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| 13:56 | this is after I just re-built my TC image
| |
| 13:56 | with --copy-sourceslist
| |
| 13:56 | installed firefox
| |
| 13:56 | via apt-get
| |
| 13:56 | and ran an apt-get upgrade as well
| |
| 13:56 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 13:56 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:57 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> there's a host of inconsistencies between screen_02 and xterm as well
| |
| 13:58 | for instance, ifconfig does not exist in localapps xterm
| |
| 13:58 | cannot ping
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| 14:01 | <Gadi> sounds secure
| |
| 14:01 | you should sell that
| |
| 14:01 | :)
| |
| 14:01 | * Gadi waves to jammcq | |
| 14:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: little help
| |
| 14:02 | <Gadi> oh sure, just because I'm "little"
| |
| 14:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> I need to figure out a marketing campaign for this security feature I just came up with
| |
| 14:02 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: ls -l /etc/resolv.conf
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| 14:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> read above ;)
| |
| 14:02 | <Gadi> compare and contrast
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| 14:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> hold on, it's giving me a big problem with initramfs now :/
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| 14:03 | <jammcq> Gadi: howdie
| |
| 14:03 | <Gadi> jammcq: I haven't spoken to you since you came back from under the world
| |
| 14:03 | is it true what they say - demons, spirits, scantily-clad women?
| |
| 14:04 | <cliebow> scantily clad buxom what?
| |
| 14:04 | or who?
| |
| 14:05 | <jammcq> Gadi: umm, yeah, pretty much
| |
| 14:05 | <Gadi> cliebow: the food network had a throwdown in your backyard a couple weeks ago
| |
| 14:05 | something about cakes made out of crab
| |
| 14:05 | who would put sprinkles on crab?
| |
| 14:06 | jammcq: I knew it!
| |
| 14:06 | happy birthday, LTSP!
| |
| 14:06 | * Gadi passes LTSP a cake with crabs and sprinkles | |
| 14:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> :O
| |
| 14:06 | <jammcq> Gadi: yeah, not so much birthday celebrating down there. We've decided we'll do the big party at the end of october in Maine
| |
| 14:07 | <cliebow> Gadi:i had a chat with Masrtha Stewart the other day
| |
| 14:07 | <Gadi> cool
| |
| 14:07 | (x2)
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| 14:07 | :)
| |
| 14:07 | <cliebow> it was rough and she was staggering down the doewck..i asked er why she was walking like a drunken sailor
| |
| 14:07 | <jammcq> heh
| |
| 14:07 | <cliebow> she told me she had a bum knee..
| |
| 14:08 | then i figured out who she was
| |
| 14:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> did you tell her "It's a good thing" after?
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| 14:09 | <Gadi> cliebow: be careeful, I think she bites
| |
| 14:09 | <cliebow> she was very nice..considering..
| |
| 14:10 | they enlisted her to start the mdi marathon a couple years back..then found out that as a convicted felob she wasnt allowed to use the strating gun 8~
| |
| 14:10 | )
| |
| 14:10 | cripes..
| |
| 14:11 | <Gadi> there's always an egg timer
| |
| 14:11 | <jammcq> heheheheheh
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| 14:11 | <marks256> sbalneav, i'm back. pulse audio is the same in chroot
| |
| 14:11 | <cliebow> they gave her a whistle
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| 14:11 | <jammcq> or, she could just yell BANG !!!!!
| |
| 14:11 | <Gadi> jammcq: she had enough of that in prison
| |
| 14:11 | <jammcq> prolly
| |
| 14:11 | <cliebow> she Can get herself heard when necessary
| |
| 14:12 | <Ahmuck_> soooo, get the localapps figured out?
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| 14:13 | <Gadi> whats with all the technical support questions?
| |
| 14:13 | ;)
| |
| 14:13 | <marks256> sbalneav, i'm back. pulse audio is the same in chroot
| |
| 14:13 | <Gadi> cool - there's an echo in here
| |
| 14:14 | judging from the 2 minute interval, I estimate the channel to be about 20 feet deep
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| 14:14 | <marks256> oops lol
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| 14:14 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 14:14 | <cliebow> big party? you mean biggER party?
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| 14:14 | <marks256> i forgot i typed it in already lol
| |
| 14:14 | <Gadi> marks256: Im just playing
| |
| 14:14 | :)
| |
| 14:14 | <marks256> Gadi, :)
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| 14:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: got me. it was the resolv.conf bug
| |
| 14:14 | thanks :)
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| 14:15 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: np
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| 14:15 | _UsUrPeR_: I think there is an upgrade that fixed it
| |
| 14:15 | in the repo
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| 14:15 | litlebuda has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:16 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: have youtried: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get dist-upgrade
| |
| 14:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> negative
| |
| 14:16 | <Gadi> (hmm... or was the fix in stgraber's ppa...)
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| 14:16 | _UsUrPeR_: see if a new ltsp-client is there and just "held back"
| |
| 14:16 | when you do a regular upgrade
| |
| 14:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> rgr
| |
| 14:17 | <Gadi> "held back" is usually because dependencies change
| |
| 14:17 | and I seem to recall one time when I had to actually tell it to go ahead and install
| |
| 14:24 | <marks256> gah pulse audio makes me so angry... :/
| |
| 14:25 | <Gadi> let me guess, he's giving you the silent treatment
| |
| 14:25 | <cliebow> omg
| |
| 14:27 | * Gadi thinks the echo is getting louder | |
| 14:29 | <cliebow> is there an echo?
| |
| 14:29 | <marks256> Gadi, no. it crashes after a minute or so
| |
| 14:29 | on the client
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| 14:30 | <Gadi> marks256: what are you doing to the poor thing?
| |
| 14:34 | <marks256> Gadi, idk! it just worked that like stock. Audio would be gittery, then if a change is made to the volume, or if audio is paused or stopped, it will work normally for a few minutes, then it will crash. no audio, nothing. A restart solves the problem, but then it continues the circle. gittery, then crash
| |
| 14:35 | <Gadi> what application?
| |
| 14:35 | <sbalneav> marks256: There was a bug with pulse crashing on pause, one second.
| |
| 14:36 | <marks256> sbalneav, it wouldn't crash on pause only. even changing the volume will cause it to crash after a minute to two minutes.
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| 14:36 | <sbalneav> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=825796
| |
| 14:37 | They've fixed some crasher bugs in 0.9.15
| |
| 14:38 | <marks256> sbalneav, i've got that link up i'll try it
| |
| 14:38 | sbalneav, so do i run those commands on the server, or under chroot?
| |
| 14:39 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
| 14:40 | <sbalneav> I have no idea, I'm merely passing on information I find from google. This information is provided "as-is" with no claims as to fitness for it's intended use. As usual, your mileage may vary, please see dealer for details. :)
| |
| 14:42 | For me, in Hardy, pulse works fine.
| |
| 14:42 | <Gadi> pimp
| |
| 14:42 | :P
| |
| 14:43 | <marks256> sbalneav, maybe i'll pop in hardy... jaunty is ticking me off
| |
| 14:44 | <sbalneav> Keep in mind Hardy doesn't have localapps, so if you're wanting that functionality, you'd be best to try to solve the crasher bug in pulse.
| |
| 14:44 | Have you attempted to log into the thin client locally and see what error messages there are in the logs re: pulse?
| |
| 14:45 | dmesg and/or the logs might have some useful information.
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| 14:46 | <marks256> sbalneav, where is the pulse log file at?
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| 14:46 | <sbalneav> Try setting the root password in the chroot, so you can log in on console F1
| |
| 14:46 | I don't think it has it's own specific log, but rather logs to daemon.log
| |
| 14:46 | /var/log/daemon.log
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| 14:46 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 14:47 | <marks256> sbalneav, log in as root on the console?
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| 14:47 | sbalneav, i'm so lost :( i'm sorry
| |
| 14:47 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 14:47 | <sbalneav> First, set a root password in the chroot
| |
| 14:47 | Hey jammcq
| |
| 14:48 | <marks256> sbalneav, how do i set root password in chroot?
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| 14:48 | <jammcq> sbalneav: did you see the seating info I posted to you?
| |
| 14:48 | <sbalneav> jammcq: yes, I'll do that right now.
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| 14:48 | <marks256> sbalneav, i am logged in as root on chroot
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| 14:48 | sbalneav, passwd?
| |
| 14:48 | <sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
| |
| 14:49 | passwd -u
| |
| 14:49 | exit
| |
| 14:49 | <marks256> sbalneav, yeah i got it now
| |
| 14:49 | <sbalneav> ltsp-update-image
| |
| 14:50 | <marks256> AH! crap i keep forgetting to update the images every time i make a change to config files... could that be part of my problem that none of my attempts have worked?
| |
| 14:53 | sbalneav, i see no pulseaudio complaints in daemon.log
| |
| 14:53 | <sbalneav> Yes
| |
| 14:53 | try user.log
| |
| 14:54 | So, you're doing a ctl-alt-f1 on the thin client, and logging in as root?
| |
| 14:54 | on the text console?
| |
| 14:56 | <marks256> sbalneav, found a complaint in user.log from pulseaudio, but it doesn't seem like it is the problem.
| |
| 14:56 | something about a method not found in module-console-kit.c
| |
| 14:57 | but that only shows up once. I've had pulse crash on me multiple times
| |
| 15:03 | <sbalneav> And you reboot after each time?
| |
| 15:04 | Because that log starts fresh with each boot, so unless you're manually restarting pulse, you'll only ever see one error.
| |
| 15:04 | Can you please paste the error to the pastebot?
| |
| 15:04 | !pastebot
| |
| 15:04 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
| |
| 15:05 | <marks256> sbalneav, i know what pastebin is ;) yeah i'll see what i can do. server is restarting now.
| |
| 15:06 | sbalneav, or i can do it to "pastebot" lol
| |
| 15:07 | <sbalneav> You don't need to restart the server after a rebuild, only the thin client.
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| 15:07 | <marks256> sbalneav, i need to make pulse crash again. it'll be a minute or two
| |
| 15:07 | sbalneav, ok. i'll remember that for next time. thanks
| |
| 15:10 | sbalneav, so what file do you want me to paste?
| |
| 15:11 | <CAN-o-SPAM> jammcq: ping
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| 15:13 | <jammcq> CAN-o-SPAM: pong
| |
| 15:15 | <sbalneav> the error message from user.log
| |
| 15:16 | <marks256> sbalneav, AHH!!! every time i've rebuilt the image it rebuilds the x64 image. i need to do 'ltsp-update-image --arch i386'
| |
| 15:17 | <ltsppbot> "marks256" pasted "user.log" (26 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/444
| |
| 15:17 | <marks256> sbalneav, there is my user.log file
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| 15:17 | sbalneav, i'm goign to rebuild the i386 image quick
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| 15:18 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 15:18 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 15:22 | maginot has quit IRC | |
| 15:24 | <sbalneav> marks256: That's not coming from the thin client.
| |
| 15:24 | that's from your server.
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| 15:28 | <marks256> sbalneav, then how do i get it from the client?
| |
| 15:29 | <sbalneav> Well, first off, have you logged in on the thin client yet on the text console?
| |
| 15:29 | Press control-alt-f1, log in as root, and the password you set, and then control-alt-f7 back here.
| |
| 15:30 | <marks256> i'm not on a terminal for future reference. i'm on a totally different machine separate from the server/terminals. Ok. give me a second and i'll get on a tty
| |
| 15:32 | sbalneav, ok i'm logged in as root on tty1
| |
| 15:34 | <sbalneav> You need to do it on a terminal
| |
| 15:34 | <marks256> i am on a terminal
| |
| 15:34 | i'm on the terminal. tty1
| |
| 15:34 | <sbalneav> I'm confused now.
| |
| 15:35 | Are you sitting at a thin client?
| |
| 15:35 | <marks256> sbalneav, what exactly is it taht you want me to do? i've got control-atl-f1 up on the terminal. logged in as root
| |
| 15:35 | <sbalneav> OK, but are you at a thin client?
| |
| 15:36 | <marks256> sbalneav, yes
| |
| 15:36 | <sbalneav> ok
| |
| 15:36 | <marks256> but i'm on ircing from a thin client
| |
| 15:36 | not*
| |
| 15:36 | i'm on a laptop on irc
| |
| 15:37 | <sbalneav> so, on tty1, check and see if pulse is running. ps -ef | grep pulse
| |
| 15:38 | Is it running, or has it failed?
| |
| 15:38 | <marks256> sbalneav, it is running PID 6266
| |
| 15:38 | 3266, sorry
| |
| 15:39 | <sbalneav> Ok, so is audio working now on the thin client, or not?
| |
| 15:39 | <marks256> sbalneav, yes, but it is in its glitchy state right now
| |
| 15:40 | <sbalneav> OK, we want to make it fail.
| |
| 15:40 | So, cause it to die.
| |
| 15:40 | <marks256> sbalneav, ok i can make that happen
| |
| 15:40 | sbalneav, give me a sec
| |
| 15:45 | sbalneav, ok it failed
| |
| 15:45 | <sbalneav> Ok, check again, is it still running?
| |
| 15:45 | If it's not, then it died.
| |
| 15:46 | <marks256> it is no longer there. it died
| |
| 15:47 | <sbalneav> ok
| |
| 15:47 | What does the command dmesg give you? Anything that looks pulse related?
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| 15:47 | mikkel has quit IRC | |
| 15:48 | <marks256> sbalneav, i'll check
| |
| 15:49 | sbalneav, no sign of any pulse related material in dmesg
| |
| 15:50 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:51 | <sbalneav> ok, lets check both daemon.log, and user.log
| |
| 15:51 | in /var/log, btw
| |
| 15:51 | <marks256> sbalneav, ok. how do i do this properly then?
| |
| 15:51 | sbalneav, ok i'll do nano /var/log/foo.log right?
| |
| 15:54 | <sbalneav> That would be fine.
| |
| 15:55 | <marks256> nano isn't found... :( i used vi and both files are empty.
| |
| 15:56 | <sbalneav> Hm.
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| 15:56 | <marks256> sbalneav, unless i did something wrong they are both empty. and i used tabbed completion, so i know the file names were right.
| |
| 15:56 | <sbalneav> any non-zero log files in /var/log?
| |
| 15:56 | ls -l
| |
| 15:57 | <marks256> you mean are there any files that aren't empty?
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| 15:57 | <sbalneav> yes
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| 15:57 | pmatulis has quit IRC | |
| 15:58 | <marks256> sbalneav, yes there are a few. i'll write them down. i'll skip the obvious ones though... like dhcp.
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| 16:00 | sbalneav, lastlog.log ldm.log, news, and wtmp.log
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| 16:01 | oops news is a directory...
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| 16:05 | <sbalneav> Hm.
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| 16:06 | No, none of those will tell us anything.
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| 16:07 | So, pulse just dies with nary a peep.
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| 16:07 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 16:08 | <marks256> sbalneav, apparently so
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| 16:09 | * sbalneav *shrugs* | |
| 16:09 | <sbalneav> Well, I can have a look tonight, see if I can build an updated pulse 0.9.15 from the new upstream release.
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| 16:09 | check with me tomorrow.
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| 16:09 | <marks256> sbalneav, so i'm up a creek without a paddle
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| 16:09 | sbalneav, i'm not sure i'll be on tomorrow
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| 16:10 | sbalneav, should i just find a tutorial on how to setup pulse audio and try to compile myself?
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| 16:10 | <sbalneav> Are you in a rush for this?
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| 16:11 | I mean, we just *use* pulse, it's not something the LTSP devs actually develop.
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| 16:11 | <marks256> sbalneav, no, but it i really getting on my nerves and i'd like to finish it so i can move on to more frustrating projects :)
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| 16:11 | sbalneav, right. there are other alternatives, but i'm not familiar with them
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| 16:12 | <sbalneav> Well, I'm willing to help you buy building you an updated pulse to see if that fixes your problem. Or, you could try switching your sound daemon to esd.
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| 16:12 | <marks256> sbalneav, i suppose building updated pulse wouldn't hurt.
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| 16:13 | sbalneav, thank you for help so far by the way. i really appreciate it :)
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| 16:14 | is there a pulseaudio repo i could link to and then just update it?
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> https://launchpad.net/~chrisirwin/+archive/cwi-pulseaudio ?
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| 16:15 | <marks256> hmm... coudl i just put that in my sources.list file and just do apt-get upgrade?
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> And another one here: https://launchpad.net/~themuso/+archive/ppa
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| 16:15 | I haven't used any of them, I just found them with google.
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| 16:15 | <marks256> alkisg, thanks :)
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| 16:16 | yep. the sources.lst entry is right there for me to paste, too. :)
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| 16:16 | <sbalneav> Ah, looks like someone already has it.
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| 16:16 | <marks256> sbalneav, could i just put those in my sources.lst and upgrade? then rebuild the image?
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| 16:16 | <sbalneav> Yes
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| 16:16 | <marks256> sbalneav, shall i?
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| 16:17 | sbalneav, i have to put it in both my sources.lst files right? one for the server and one for the terminals?
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| 16:18 | dorimar has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:27 | <sbalneav> I'd upgrade both, sure.
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| 16:27 | <marks256> how do i add a signing key... i forgot...
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| 16:27 | <sbalneav> As for "should you", as always, a complete set of backups is always handy, etc.
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| 16:27 | There should be instructions on the ppa.
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| 16:28 | Anywho, heading home for the day, I'll be on later tonight.
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| 16:28 | <marks256> yep i found instructions
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| 16:28 | <sbalneav> see you all later.
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| 16:28 | <marks256> sbalneav, alright. thanks for the help. i'll be here ;) i'm sure youre excited for that
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| 16:50 | <sbalneavbb> well, let's see if I can stay in the channel for more than 30 seconds.
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| 16:50 | silly dorkberry
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| 16:51 | <sbalneavbb> duh
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| 16:52 | marks256: did that work?
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| 16:53 | <marks256> sbalneavbb, kindof... it is hold back those updates in chroot though...
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| 16:53 | 0 newly installed, 0 to remove, and 3 not upgraded
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| 16:53 | those three not upgraded are libpulse0 pulseaudio pulseaudio-esound-compat
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| 16:53 | <sbalneavbb> any reason on the holdback?
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| 16:54 | <marks256> that's what i'm wondering. why does it do that?
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| 16:54 | <sbalneavbb> conflict?
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| 16:54 | <marks256> sbalneavbb, how would i check?
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| 16:55 | <sbalneavbb> what happens if you say apt-get install pulseaudio
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| 16:57 | that will usually tell you if there's a conflict
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| 16:57 | <marks256> ok
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| 16:58 | it lets me install...
| |
| 16:58 | so i'm installing. it even installs one of the other 3. one of them still doesn't install though. shall i do that manually too?
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| 16:58 | <sbalneavbb> is it installing some extras?
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| 16:59 | <marks256> wait
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| 16:59 | <sbalneavbb> yes
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| 16:59 | <marks256> Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/pulseaudio_1%3a0.9.15-3ubuntu1~ppa2_i386.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
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| 17:00 | <sbalneavbb> wife here. Back in a bit
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| 17:00 | <marks256> kk
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> marks256: try with the other ppa, maybe it's better..
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| 17:07 | <marks256> alkisg, it worked fine on the server though
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| 17:07 | alkisg, but that's x64...
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| 17:07 | alkisg, i'll try it
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| 17:14 | nope same error
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| 17:19 | <marks256> can i remove pulse audio and the reinstall it, or would that mess up settings?
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> marks256: did you mount /proc before installing?
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| 17:22 | <marks256> alkisg, crap no. how do i do that again? it is like mount proc proc /proc right?
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> marks256: here's the correct procedure for updating chroot, which is also valid for installing stuff: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
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| 17:22 | Bookmark this :)
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| 17:22 | <marks256> alkisg, thanks i was wondering where that site went :)
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| 17:22 | what is proc?
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| 17:23 | what is proc anyway?
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| 17:23 | oh it's the processes isn't it?
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> A virtual directory ... yup
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| 17:23 | <marks256> neat :)
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| 17:24 | <marks256> now i get The following packages have been kept back: pulseaudio pulseaudio-esound-compat 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> Try with: apt-get install pulseaudio
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| 17:26 | sbalneavbb has quit IRC | |
| 17:26 | <marks256> didn't get any errors...
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> So it's installed now?
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| 17:26 | dpkg -l pulseaudio
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| 17:27 | <marks256> alkisg, by golly it did!
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| 17:27 | now i just have to rebuild the image
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| 17:29 | random question... could i have multiple distros running under pxe? like... could the client boot up, and have a menu like grub so i can choose what OS i want to boot? like ubuntu or fedora, or something else? just totally curious :)
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| 17:30 | <alkisg> Yes, but to do this somewhat easily you'd need different servers for each distro.
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| 17:30 | (or VMs)
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| 17:31 | <Lns> Holy crap guys
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| 17:31 | http://www.techworld.com.au/article/310857/google_releases_open_source_nx_server
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| 17:32 | <marks256> alkisg, that's ok. thanks i'll ask more about that later
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| 17:32 | sbalneavbb, audio didn't start out glitchy... i'll see if it crashes...
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| 17:33 | well it "crashed", but audio still works... ??
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| 17:34 | it crashes, but it still trys to push audio through the speakers. but it is crackly and jumps through the audio very rapidly.
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> Lns, that's good news :)
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| 17:35 | <Lns> alkisg: yeah! Maybe that can be something to help out LTSP with WAN/remote connections..? :) Of course it was just announced, no sound/etc...but think of the possibilities with a truly open source nx server!
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| 17:36 | I immediately think of students being able to get to their desktop from home
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| 17:36 | (without the server collapsing under load ;) )
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> Yeah, and it would make possible to run some apps like e.g. 3d that do not easily run under ltsp
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| 17:37 | marks256: how fast is your client CPU?
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| 17:37 | <marks256> alkisg, i'm not sure exactly, but i'd guess 2.3 - 2.6ghz
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| 17:38 | after sitting for a minute, audio works again for a few seconds
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| 17:38 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, I was just wondering if it was CPU related, but no
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| 17:38 | <marks256> alkisg, no it's pleanty fast :) has 2gb of ram too
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| 17:39 | <alkisg> "Sound, printer tunneling, Samba tunneling " => nx supports all that? cool!
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| 17:42 | <marks256> if it matters sound seems to work on the server just fine...
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| 17:47 | any ideas?
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| 17:50 | i guess i'm going to pop in another hard drive and try a fresh install
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| 19:34 | <Ahmuck_> marks256: u have a managed switch?
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| 19:35 | <Ahmuck_> open nx server change the outlook for ltsp?
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| 19:35 | <marks256> Ahmuck, a managed switch?
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| 19:41 | <Ahmuck_> nm
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| 19:42 | <marks256> ok
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| 19:56 | <marks256> lucascoala, having some troubles? :)
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| 20:20 | <lucascoala> dude, this is what i am having facing since last monday morning.
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| 20:21 | mark256 wassup ?
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| 22:01 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 22:10 | <stgraber> sbalneav: evening
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| 22:12 | <sbalneav> Evening stgraber
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| 22:13 | <stgraber> sbalneav: how's it going ?
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| 22:15 | <sbalneav> Working on ldm ;)
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| 22:22 | <stgraber> yeah !! ;)
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| 22:22 | I'm preparing a talk for LTSP on thursday at the linux symposium
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| 22:22 | speaking of both LTSP (what happened and what's to be expected) and LTSP-Cluster
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| 22:26 | tylerfixer has joined #ltsp | |
| 22:27 | <tylerfixer> Hello! I've got a question regarding high thin client cpu usage, even with LDM_DIRECTX turned on.
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| 22:32 | <sbalneav> !ask
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| 22:32 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "ask" is Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 22:33 | <tylerfixer> Sorry
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| 22:33 | Just didn't want to be rude and butt in
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| 22:35 | <sbalneav> And the question is...? :)
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| 22:36 | <tylerfixer> My thin client is a Geode GX1 @ 300mhz, and I've got the right xorg drivers working after downgrading the LTSP chroot to 8.04, but even after changing LDM_DIRECTX to True, I still have very bad graphics performance. Changing to a console reveals that the xorg process is using 100% cpu, just sitting at the desktop.
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| 22:36 | (sorry, that took a long time to think out :)
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| 22:36 | <newbie> hello, nvidia binaries? is there any docs about? Thanks.
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| 22:36 | <stgraber> well, you said it ;) GX1 ...
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| 22:37 | <tylerfixer> haha, well, I actually had this thin client working fine with 2X ThinClientServer PXES version, but I really like how LTSP is turning out
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| 22:37 | and I figured i'd give it a try
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| 22:37 | <stgraber> the geode driver is still a lot better than VESA but will still overload when playing video or actively moving windows
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| 22:37 | <sbalneav> Correct me if I'm wrong, but PXES uses a much older X, correct?
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| 22:38 | <tylerfixer> here's what's funny about that, moving windows around on the screen is 100% accelerated, as in the cpu load does not go through the roof, but simply clicking the menu button in gnome raises the cpu usage to 100%
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| 22:38 | yes, PXES does use an old X and kernel
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| 22:38 | <sbalneav> The Geode drivers in older X versions were better. As X has moved on, older graphics chipsets fall by the wayside.
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| 22:38 | You have 2 options
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| 22:39 | <tylerfixer> okay
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| 22:39 | <sbalneav> 1) Stick with PXES
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| 22:39 | 2) File bugs against the Geode driver upstream in Xorg
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| 22:39 | See if you can get someone to give the old geode drivers some love.
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| 22:40 | <tylerfixer> yeah, I actually filed a bug against the NSC driver a few days ago, since there even isn't a build available for 9.04
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| 22:40 | so I had to downgrade the chroot to 8.04 to even get the nsc driver working
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| 22:40 | <stgraber> I tried 2) without much success yet ...
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| 22:40 | intrepid works correctly, jaunty is broken and I hope to have something better than VESA for karmic (have to test it when I get back home)
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| 22:40 | <sbalneav> I remeber we had problems even back in the LTSP 4.2 days, and had to have special patches for the nsc drivers.
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| 22:41 | <stgraber> though that's on GX2, I don't have GX1 around
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| 22:41 | <tylerfixer> yeah, it appears that the geode platform isn't getting a lot of attention lately
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| 22:41 | especially the gx1
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| 22:41 | <sbalneav> That would be a hint to start thinking about grandfathering out the old thin clients :)
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| 22:41 | <tylerfixer> well, unfortunately, I just purchased these :)
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| 22:41 | <sbalneav> Ooooh.
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| 22:42 | <tylerfixer> and i've spent the last few months re-writing the bios in them to get them to netboot
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| 22:42 | <sbalneav> Lol.
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| 22:42 | How many you have?
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| 22:42 | <tylerfixer> about 20
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| 22:42 | <sbalneav> Ok, so do this math:
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| 22:42 | <tylerfixer> they came with winCE3.0 :ugh:
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| 22:43 | <sbalneav> Original purchase price + ( num hours * your rate of pay ) + (num hours left to get them to work * your rate of pay) >? ( cost of 20 new thin clients )
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| 22:43 | <stgraber> how much did they cost you (if I may ask) ?
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| 22:44 | <sbalneav> May be time to cut your losses :)
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| 22:44 | <tylerfixer> i paid around $10/thin client on eBay
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| 22:44 | and $10 per 64mb ram stick
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| 22:44 | <stgraber> ok, the price is corect then, that's basically what I'd pay for one of these ;)
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| 22:44 | <tylerfixer> haha
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| 22:44 | they're nice little machines, under the right circumstances
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| 22:45 | <stgraber> I mean, 10$ for a paperweight isn't that expensive ;)
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| 22:45 | <tylerfixer> i tried making a custom winCE build, and they were VERY fast, but unfortunately I am not a MSDN member, so the CE build expired a week later
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| 22:45 | and even under PXES they could play full motion video using rdesktop just fine
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| 22:45 | <sbalneav> So, then why not stick with pxes?
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| 22:45 | <stgraber> yeah, basically the GX2 I've around only do RDP
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| 22:45 | because it's the only thing they can do without crashing for various reasons ...
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| 22:46 | <tylerfixer> because I don't like the mentality of having a closed-source open-source OS
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| 22:46 | <newbie> does ldm remember last xsession
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| 22:46 | <tylerfixer> @stgraber lol
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| 22:46 | <newbie> ?
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| 22:46 | <stgraber> once the video issue is fixed, you'll lack memory to do something useful with them (at least mines have 90MB of RAM, so not enough for heavy firefoxing)
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| 22:46 | <tylerfixer> PXES doesn't allow local console logins to the thin clients, and the entire OS is protected from modifications
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| 22:46 | <stgraber> because softwares like firefox are a bit buggy and tend to store a lot of data in the video memory
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| 22:47 | <tylerfixer> really? would NX help?
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| 22:47 | <stgraber> as you don't have enough physical video memory, it goes in RAM, takes all the RAM until X is OOM killed ...
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| 22:47 | <tylerfixer> instead of using regular X forwarding
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| 22:47 | <stgraber> NX may slightly help as a good part of the X events will be filtered by the nxproxy
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| 22:47 | though NX does SSH encryption so CPU will be an issue
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| 22:48 | <tylerfixer> I believe you can disable SSH encryption in NX
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| 22:48 | <stgraber> maybe playing with the encryption settings and compression settings may give you better performances
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| 22:48 | <tylerfixer> I had tried turning on LDM_DIRECTX, but it didn't seem to help
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| 22:48 | <stgraber> yeah you can if you aren't using load-balanced NX
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| 22:48 | <tylerfixer> the only other thing i can think of is that there's a problem with the cpu frequency scaling
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| 22:48 | since EVERYTHING seems slow
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| 22:49 | even in the terminal console
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| 22:49 | <stgraber> well, turning on LDM_DIRECTX on a geode only moves the issue from the CPU to the video card ;)
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| 22:49 | <tylerfixer> yes, that is true, but in theory it should be accelerated
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| 22:49 | of course, that goes back to what you had said about the drivers being cruddy
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| 22:50 | <stgraber> I guess currently the only Geode I had relatively good results with for LTSP is the LX ones
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| 22:50 | <sbalneav> LTSP, as with most distros these days, suffers from "Moved On" syndrome.
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| 22:50 | <tylerfixer> unfortunately...
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| 22:51 | maybe rolling back the chroot to something like 7.04 would help?
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| 22:51 | <sbalneav> As people desire more and more bling on the high end hardware, X, the Kernel, etc all get bigger.
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| 22:51 | <tylerfixer> although i bet that'd cause a lot more problems
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| 22:51 | <sbalneav> And older hardware drops off the back end.
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| 22:51 | We write OUR stuff to be small, but if X stops supporting Geode... well...
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| 22:51 | <tylerfixer> then we're toast
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| 22:52 | <stgraber> sbalneav: well, actually most of the boot optimization work going on at the moment tends to help with old hardware
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| 22:52 | sbalneav: though expecting to have a GX1/GX2 be able to do large widescreen resolution and youtube is a bit over-optimistic as it never was able to do so ;)
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| 22:52 | <sbalneav> Well, sure.
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| 22:52 | Ah, look what I found!
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| 22:53 | My little eboxthingy
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| 22:54 | <stgraber> GX1 only has a single CPU cache (L1) and it's of 16kB ... and then I was complaining about GX2 (32kB L1) :)
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| 22:54 | <tylerfixer> did you ever have any problems related to the cpu frequency scaling on the gx1 though?
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| 22:54 | <stgraber> sbalneav: I have two of them on my desk at the office, they're really small but quite useless
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| 22:54 | <tylerfixer> because the entire speed of the OS even in console mode with no X loaded just seems slower
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| 22:55 | <stgraber> though I managed to boot jaunty on them ... after 20 minutes :)
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| 22:55 | <tylerfixer> hahahaha
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| 22:55 | that's awesome
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| 22:55 | supreme__ has joined #ltsp | |
| 22:55 | <supreme__> hi all
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| 22:55 | <tylerfixer> hello!
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| 22:55 | <supreme__> i got some terminals and i must to know if they works with ltsp
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| 22:56 | <sbalneav> stgraber: booting noooooowwwwwwww......
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| 22:56 | <newbie> supreme__: models?
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| 22:56 | <sbalneav> It's like falling into a black hole. Time just slows down :)
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| 22:56 | <stgraber> yeah :)
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| 22:57 | <tylerfixer> well, i guess I'm going to try installing NX in the chroot and seeing if that helps any
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| 22:57 | maybe i'll find that x forwarding was just too intense for my little thin client's brains...
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| 22:57 | <sunru> whats the command to tell what xorg driver is running on the client?
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| 22:58 | <sbalneav> Right, because straight X consumes 100% cpu, so X + bitmap compression will somehow work faster.
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| 22:58 | <stgraber> sunru: you can't get it from a command ... that's a bug I'm fighting for a few months now X developers don't seem to want to provide that information
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| 22:58 | <tylerfixer> haha, actually running just startx & xterm & doesn't use a lot of cpu, just around 1-2%
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| 22:58 | <stgraber> sunru: easiest is to look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log on the thin client
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| 22:58 | <tylerfixer> even opening a windowmanager doesn't take a lot more cpu
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| 22:58 | <sunru> xdpyinfo?
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| 22:58 | oh
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| 22:59 | i assume it loaded up the nv driver?
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| 22:59 | <tylerfixer> i think it's somehow related to LDM, since it seems to do quite a bit of magic-- and on bootup it takes 100% cpu for a good minute or so
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| 22:59 | <stgraber> in some cases (binary driver) you can guess from glxinfo's output but other than these, you can't
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| 22:59 | <sbalneav> tylerfixer: trust me, adding nx to the mix isn't going to make X any faster.
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| 22:59 | that's not the problem NX solves.
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| 23:00 | <tylerfixer> i know, it's network usage that NX is aimed at
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| 23:00 | <stgraber> sbalneav: well, in some cases it may help as it'll get rid of a lot of X events
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| 23:00 | <sunru> i might just forget it until someone loads an app that requires glx and complains.
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| 23:00 | <sbalneav> And replace them with compression.
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| 23:00 | <sunru> :)
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| 23:00 | <stgraber> sbalneav: if you go with no compression and no encryption it may help a bit
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| 23:00 | <sbalneav> There's no such thing as a free lunch.
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| 23:00 | <stgraber> but you'll loose 3D and XV though
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| 23:01 | <tylerfixer> i just had a thought though-- maybe I should try x forwarding to another machine on my network, and see if that's slow too
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| 23:01 | then i'd find that the problem lies in the server, not the client... hopefully
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| 23:01 | in this case, i really don't know....
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| 23:01 | <stgraber> sbalneav: if you have NX without compression and encryption, then you basically get X with a lot less X events as usual remote X though loose 3D and XV and funny things like xprop along the way
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| 23:02 | <tylerfixer> be right back, going to try NX on the thin client-- i'll report back :)
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| 23:03 | <stgraber> anyway, got to get some sleep before tomorrow's conference. see you guys
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| 23:03 | <sbalneav> I understand that. But: You're drawing (on the server) a virtual bitmap of the display, doing deltas, and then sending them down to the thin client as bitmap deltas which must do the math to turn the delta's back into a display andpaintthemtothescreensoyourTSILLDOINGABUNCHOFEXTRAMATH whew.
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| 23:03 | <stgraber> sbalneav: right and for some reason that doesn't work so badly with geodes ...
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| 23:04 | sbalneav: as I said, my only use of them at the moment is RDP because they aren't "that bad" for stupid bitmap displaying
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| 23:04 | <tylerfixer> i know, i'll probably end up back with PXES, but i figure what the heck
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| 23:04 | <sbalneav> On a 64 meg geode GX1? Ok, I await with baited breath.
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| 23:05 | Meanwhile, now that you've got me on the topic, I'm going to dig into the kernel bug I think's at the heart of our woes with the ebox.
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| 23:05 | Err, bated breath.
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| 23:05 | I'm not eating minnows.
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| 23:05 | <supreme__> sunru http://www.lintex.cl/index.php?pagina=symbio, at the end of the site
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| 23:06 | (is in spanish but i think is understandable)
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| 23:06 | <stgraber> sbalneav: I only have GX2 in my test lab so can't speak for GX1 though I expect it to be a lot worse (half the cache, no MMX and 3DNOW extension ... and we're speaking about the frequency yet)
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| 23:07 | <sunru> supreme__: plug them in and boot them up?
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| 23:07 | <supreme__> sunru, i dont have it yet in my hands
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| 23:07 | <sunru> does the "nv" driver support glx?
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| 23:07 | <supreme__> only SYM1110 says to be compatible with k12 and ltsp, but i dont know the others
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| 23:07 | <stgraber> supreme__: oh, these are from symbio ?
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| 23:08 | <supreme__> yes stgraber
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| 23:08 | <stgraber> supreme__: wait for gadi then ;)
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| 23:08 | he works at Symbio
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| 23:08 | <sbalneav> He *is* Symbio :)
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| 23:08 | <stgraber> right :)
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| 23:08 | <supreme__> haha, is the only worker there?
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| 23:09 | <sbalneav> Is fgiralde1u part owner in Revolution Linux?
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| 23:09 | supreme__: No, he's got employees
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| 23:09 | <stgraber> I have a 1110 at home, it's GX2 based and so unless you want to do only RDP I wouldn't recommend it. Don't know the others, hope they're faster ;)
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| 23:09 | sbalneav: yeah
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| 23:09 | <sbalneav> stgraber: So, when is what's his name gonna give us a sales call?
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| 23:10 | <supreme__> gx2? is a processor?
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| 23:10 | <stgraber> sbalneav: jean-guy ? don't know, soon I expect.
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| 23:10 | Francis doesn't do a lot of LTSP lately though .. lots of other projects
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| 23:11 | <sbalneav> You and Francis are in on the call though, right?
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| 23:11 | <stgraber> supreme__: yeah, that's AMD Geode GX2
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| 23:11 | sbalneav: I'll, not sure for Francis
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| 23:11 | <sbalneav> I'm interested in the hardware.
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| 23:11 | Our current supplier is getting a bit... sporadic :)
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| 23:12 | <supreme__> oh, i see, so that machines are not recommended, ok
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| 23:15 | <sbalneav> supreme__: no, that was for stgraber
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| 23:15 | I'm not commenting on your machines
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| 23:15 | <stgraber> sbalneav: I'll poke jean-guy about it tomorrow :) now time for some sleep
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| 23:16 | supreme__: as far as I know, Symbio also has some VIA-based thin clients that may be a little bit more expensive but will work a lot better than the Geode ones, you should really poke Gadi about it when he's around on IRC
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| 23:16 | <supreme__> sbalneav, i thought that because of stgraber said "I have a 1110 at home, it's GX2 based and so unless you want to do only RDP I wouldn't recommend it. Don't know the others, hope they're faster ;)"
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| 23:16 | ok, thanks stgraber
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| 23:21 | <tylerfixer> okay! back
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| 23:21 | observations: NX with encryption is just as slow as normal X forwarding
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| 23:22 | observation 2 : my server is configured wrong, since I can't connect with no encryption in NX
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| 23:23 | observation 3: xorg is only using 4% of cpu over encrypted NX
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| 23:31 | well, i'm off to go get nonencrypted NX to work
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| 23:31 | thanks for the brainfood!
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| 23:31 | g'nite
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| 23:39 | <supreme__> stgraber, do you know the gadi's email? or his name?
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| 23:40 | stgraber, if you can give me that info, by private i think it would be better.
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| 23:48 | <dberkholz> supreme__: google for gadi ltsp, i bet it's in the top 5 results
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| 23:48 | <supreme__> thanks
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