IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 November 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:51 | <MasterOne> hi guys, anybody around?
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| 01:09 | <daya> MasterOne, hi
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| 01:09 | <MasterOne> hi
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| 01:10 | too bad, I wanted to ask a question, but got distracted, and now I don't remember what it was ;)
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| 01:10 | <daya> what happen,
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| 01:10 | MasterOne, :), haha
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| 01:10 | <MasterOne> ah, now I remember
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| 01:11 | Is a dual or even triple monitor setup going to work on a thin client?
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| 01:12 | <daya> MasterOne, I didn't get u , do u mean vga sharing or just logging in multiple screen in client,
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| 01:13 | <MasterOne> one client with two or three monitors
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| 01:13 | with one large desktop
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| 01:14 | <johnny> it seems possible.. with enough hackery
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| 01:14 | <MasterOne> hm
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| 01:15 | isn't the xserver setup in the thin client root supposed to recognize the monitor setup automatically?
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| 01:15 | <cyberorg> MasterOne, if you have xorg.conf preconfigured for that task, yes
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| 01:15 | <MasterOne> wondering what it does, if it detects 2 graphic cards with altogether 3 monitors attached
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| 01:17 | <MasterOne> cyberorg: can a specific xorg.conf be prepared for a certain machine, or does it need a separate thin client chroot for that?
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| 01:18 | <cyberorg> MasterOne, it can be prepared and you can specify which one to use for the machine in lts.conf
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| 01:18 | <MasterOne> oh, must have missed that one
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| 01:19 | how do you specify a specific xorg.conf in lts.conf, and where do you put this specific xorg.conf file?
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| 01:28 | <cyberorg> MasterOne, sorry i cant find any documentation for it, but you need to configure X_CONF variable pointing to xorg.conf in lts.conf under the client [mac] section
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| 01:29 | <MasterOne> what would be the appropriate place to save that modified xorg.conf?
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| 01:30 | <cyberorg> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/edubuntu/handbook/C/server.xml
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| 01:31 | this is the only thing google turned up
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| 01:31 | X_CONF = /etc/X11/my-custom-xorg.conf
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| 01:31 | <MasterOne> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11</filename>
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| 01:32 | ;)
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| 01:32 | <cyberorg> where do we get the handbook that is readable?
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| 01:32 | <MasterOne> it's installed on the Edubuntu setup
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| 01:32 | <cyberorg> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ google
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| 01:33 | http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-client.html nice
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| 01:34 | <MasterOne> the online handbook is not the same as the installed one
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| 01:34 | the installed one (using Gnome Help system) is far more detailed
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| 01:39 | <cyberorg> MasterOne, heh, that is why many people suggest rtfm :)
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| 01:39 | <MasterOne> yes,
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| 09:32 | <shogunx> hi all. i have a colleage in africa who wants to add some HP T5720's to a LTSP we built for him. anyone know of compatibility issues with this client?
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| 09:35 | <sutula> shogunx: I have a half-dozen 5710's working fine...how much RAM?
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| 09:35 | <shogunx> not sure. i will ask, but its likely a factory config. pxe boot on those?
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| 09:35 | <sutula> shogunx: Yes
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| 09:36 | <shogunx> great. thanx.
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| 09:36 | <sutula> My 5710's are doing OK with 256M
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| 09:36 | * sutula notes, that what may be OK for one person/installation may not be for others :) | |
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| 09:37 | <shogunx> cool. the system we sent had several Sumotech st166's with 128M and they do the job just fine too, so I', sure 256 in the HP's will be sufficient for our purposes.
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| 09:39 | <sutula> shogunx: If you hold on a sec...I'm asking someone with a bit more background in another channel
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| 09:43 | <shogunx> sure, thanks.
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| 09:49 | <sutula> shogunx: OK, so different processors, different graphics, everything's different, so my saying that the 5710's work fine don't say anything about the 5720.
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| 09:49 | shogunx: My source also tried the 5720 under Linux and it worked fine, so I expect LTSP will work as well.
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| 09:50 | <cflynt> Hi - I just upgraded my Ubuntu box from Edgy 6.10 to Feisty 7.04. I'm guessing I wipe /opt/ltsp and redo the build to update LTSP, or should that have happened with the Ubuntu update? Do I need to get a new base LTSP/ltsp-build-client kit?
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| 09:50 | <sutula> shogunx: However, it wasn't worth the extra money, and he felt that the 5710 performed better than the 5720. If your friend is buying some used, our recommendation would be to look for 5710's instead.
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| 09:53 | <ogra> cflynt, you need to rebuild the client
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| 09:53 | cflynt, move the old chroot in opt out of the way and just run sudo ltsp-build-client
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| 09:56 | <Gadi> so, on gutsy, I just had to comment out a line in ltspfsmounter to get localdev working (ie. settingDISPLAY ito localhost:10)
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| 09:57 | when using DIRECTX
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| 09:57 | is that normal?
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| 09:57 | <cflynt> ogra: Thanks. The big question for me was whether I needed to get a new ltsp-build-client kit - you think that the upgrade should have upgraded that for me. How will I tell what rev my LTSP client is at once this is done?
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| 09:58 | <ogra> the upgrade will have upgraded ltsp-server which contains ltsp-build-client
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| 09:58 | Gadi, yes, known bug :(
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| 09:58 | <cflynt> Thanks - starting the big rm and build...
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| 09:58 | <Gadi> ogra: ah.
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| 09:59 | <ogra> sigh ...
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| 09:59 | * ogra cant get sound on hardy ltsp in virtualbox ... seems something changed in pulseaudio :/ | |
| 10:01 | <cliebow_> sigh...
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| 10:02 | ogra: so i can change sources.list and start breaking thingsd with hardy (non-produaction?)
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| 10:02 | <ogra> cliebow_, well, the fedora changes are not in yet, its very likely that it breaks badly soon
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| 10:03 | currently its only the gutsy code with debian merges
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| 10:03 | and different packaging
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| 10:03 | if fedora needs to change anything beyond the ltsp-build-client plugin dir it might break
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| 10:04 | <cliebow_> guess there is no rush yet anyway..
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| 10:05 | <ogra> ldm themeing is broken as well ....
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| 10:05 | but beyond these two it looks quite good
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| 10:06 | the soudn stuff might be a virtualbox problem even ... i have no thin client around atm ...
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| 10:06 | <shogunx> sutula thanx. i appreciate it. those folks already have the thin clients, and just want to know if they could make use of them.
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| 10:07 | <sutula> shogunx: Our guess is yes
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| 10:10 | <cliebow_> i'll send you a netvista...8~)
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| 10:10 | <Gadi> ogra: do you have a link to that bug report?
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| 10:11 | <ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/160420
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| 10:12 | <Gadi> thx
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| 10:12 | <ogra> beyond the DISPLAY stuff something is wonky with scotts token thingie
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| 10:13 | (nothing to do with -X thats a wrong assumption, but i havent found the reason for teh wrong tokens yet)
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| 10:13 | <Egyptian[Home]> evening all
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| 10:13 | is there any plan to integrate voip to the thin client ala sun ray?
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| 10:25 | <ogra> Egyptian[Home], if someone implements capturing client side ... there is no setup for that yet
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| 10:25 | (the capabilities are there but time and code is needed :) )
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| 10:25 | <Gadi> ogra: /me wonders if this 'fix' works with DIRECTX, too
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| 10:25 | as DISPLAY is not the same
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| 10:26 | <ogra> should ...
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| 10:26 | <johnny> Gadi, thanks for that patch you made to th previous ldm btw :)
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| 10:26 | <ogra> as long as the tokens are right
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| 10:26 | <Gadi> johnny: my pleasure - it would be great if *I* knew better how to use it :)
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| 10:26 | <johnny> that hostname| thing was awesome
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| 10:27 | <Gadi> johnny: I was just copying what gdm has done forever
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| 10:27 | :)
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| 10:27 | speaking of dms, remind me to talk to sbalneav about the whole three password thing
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| 10:27 | <johnny> hmm..i wish i had the money to afford to pay for a programmer for a few years.. his only job would be to fix my open source annoyances :)
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| 10:27 | <Gadi> it confuses the bigeezes out of everybody
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| 10:27 | <ogra> yeah
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| 10:27 | <johnny> yes.. we've had that at our place
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| 10:28 | <ogra> its inherited from ssh though
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| 10:28 | * Gadi understands | |
| 10:28 | <Gadi> but, the USER needn't know they are using ssh
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| 10:28 | :)
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| 10:28 | nor how to spell it
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| 10:28 | <ogra> no
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| 10:29 | what i mean is, set ssh dto ask only once and you have fixed it
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| 10:29 | <Gadi> for now, Im gonna be lazy and change the line in ltspfsmounter to: env['DISPLAY'] = [conn+':6.0']
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| 10:29 | should do the trick
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| 10:29 | <ogra> hmm, on hardy my tokens are equal ... and i can actually load a CD in virtualbox just fine
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| 10:29 | Gadi, no
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| 10:30 | drop that line altogether
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| 10:30 | it will just use whatever $DISPLAY is set anyway
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| 10:30 | <Gadi> but, with that line it works and I dont have to rebuild an image while people are working
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| 10:30 | yeah, but DISPLAY is not set
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| 10:30 | bec ltspfsmounter is called in the background
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| 10:30 | <MasterOne> anybody here actually using a dual or even triple screen setup on a thin client?
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| 10:31 | <Gadi> thats why you need your -X trick
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| 10:35 | <ogra> Gadi, intresting ...
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| 10:36 | for me it works only if i remove the line completely
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| 10:36 | but then it works with and without DIRECTX
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| 10:36 | <Gadi> right
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| 10:37 | urs is a better fix
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| 10:37 | mine is a quick - no l-u-i fix
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| 10:37 | :)
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| 10:37 | <ogra> and i simply cant reproduce the token difference here
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| 10:40 | <Gadi> meanwhile, I think the latest gnome-screensaver does weird things. My thin client screen blanks on me every 10 mins even if Im not idle
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| 10:40 | lol
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| 10:40 | oy... even in the future nothing works
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| 10:40 | <cflynt> It appears that the update didn't update LTSP. I did an apt-get remove and a new apt-get install and got a new size/date for ltsp-build-client. Running a new install now.
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| 10:40 | <Gadi> cflynt: perhaps you meant *upgrade*
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| 10:41 | <ogra> cflynt, did you properly use the update-manager to upgarde the system as we recommend ?
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| 10:42 | any other method isnt reliable ...
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| 10:45 | <iMacGyver> ogra: were you the one yesterday that said there was an easy hack to the acpi script of a client to get it to cleanly logoff before shutdown? if so, could you give me a hint on the commands to cleanly log off?
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| 10:45 | <ogra> no
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| 10:45 | i said it would be an easy hack to make the powerbutton shut down directly through installing acpid in the chroot
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| 10:45 | that will kill your session indeed
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| 10:47 | <iMacGyver> ogra: ok, i have that, but not all the processes are dying on the server (eg gconfd, bonobo...etc)
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| 10:47 | <ogra> indeed
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| 10:48 | these are application bugs, gnome upstream is working on it
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| 10:48 | if you shut down cleanly they should all go away though
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| 10:48 | <iMacGyver> ok
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| 10:48 | <ogra> s/shut down/log out/
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| 10:48 | <iMacGyver> yeah...was wondering if there is a way to fake the logout before the powerdown :-p
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| 10:48 | <johnny> it's easier to kill the old procs on re login
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| 10:48 | <iMacGyver> through the acpi handler on the client
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| 10:49 | <johnny> iMacGyver, i don't think so :(
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| 10:50 | <iMacGyver> i thought logout just killed gnome-session, but i guess this isn't how it works?
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| 10:51 | <Gadi> you could always tie the power btn to: ssh -S <socket> <server> pkill -u $USER
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| 10:51 | ;
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| 10:51 | ;)
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| 10:51 | <ogra> eeek !
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| 10:51 | no
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| 10:51 | <Gadi> lol
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| 10:52 | <iMacGyver> tempting ;)
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| 10:52 | <ogra> tie it to gdm-signal <whatever that needs to bring up the logout dialog>
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| 10:52 | <iMacGyver> well ldm/gdm is running on the client right?
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| 10:53 | <ogra> gdm is runnig on the server
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| 10:53 | but thats not the right command
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| 10:53 | what i mean is make the powerbutton trigger the logout dialog
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| 10:53 | that way users *have to* log out properly first
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| 10:54 | <iMacGyver> why not just log them out for them :-p
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| 10:55 | ie what does the logout dialog do when the user clicks logout
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| 10:55 | <ogra> telling gnome-session the right things to shut down the apps in the right order
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| 10:56 | but the ubuntu logout dialog is special here
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| 10:56 | <ogra> that would need a deep code review
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| 10:56 | to find out what exactly to do
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| 10:57 | <iMacGyver> do you know what the logout dialog program is called?
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| 10:57 | <ogra> its a patch to gnome-session
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| 10:58 | look in the gnomesession source package
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| 11:00 | <warren> ogra, saw my changes?
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| 11:00 | <cflynt> ogra - I used the button on the GUI to upgrade the system, and took a bunch of defaults. I'm mostly a SuSE/Fedora user (except for this one box), so Ubuntu/Debian-speak is slightly foreign to me. My next trick is to figure out where 34G of space went on a system that has no users...
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| 11:00 | <ogra> warren, busy day i havent pulled yet (i'm building the first edubuntu 8.04 alpha CD today)
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| 11:00 | cflynt, if you used the gui all is fine :)
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| 11:03 | <johnny> ogra, are the autologin and local devices issues required for hardy ?
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| 11:03 | <ogra> ??
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| 11:03 | <johnny> to be fixed for hardy that is
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| 11:05 | <ogra> local devcies will be fixed in gutsy upgardes ... once i found out why there are differences in the tokens for some people
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| 11:05 | its only that one silly line in ltspfsmounter that makes it fail .... thats not in hardy anymore
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| 11:07 | and i know only 50% about the autologin bug yet ... its clear that LDM_SERVER isnt properly set but there is more ...
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| 11:08 | <johnny> with vagrant's fix it is i thought?
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| 11:09 | <ogra> no
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| 11:09 | only partially
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| 11:12 | <Gadi> ogra: did you test ur fix with directx as well?
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| 11:12 | <johnny> sorry ogra, i wasnt' clear
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| 11:12 | <Gadi> for localdev
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| 11:12 | <johnny> isn't LDM_SERVER always set with vagrant's fix?
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| 11:13 | <ogra> Gadi, works fine here in hardy
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| 11:13 | johnny, yes .. but that still is only half the thing we need to fix
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| 11:13 | please read the bugreport again
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| 11:13 | <johnny> truely
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| 11:13 | i know tht
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| 11:13 | <ogra> its all described in the first comment
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| 11:13 | <johnny> yes, i read that
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| 11:14 | i was only speaking of LDM_SERVER not the rst of the bug
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| 11:15 | <ogra> LDM_SERVER will be set ... but the get_hosts() finction is still broken/nonexistent
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| 11:15 | *function
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| 12:28 | <scrapbunny> is there any other script/program besides gnome-watchdog that will help clean up left over processes from improper shutdown?
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| 12:28 | <nubae> wow, I am an idiot... I just deleted my /etc directory, thinking it was /somebackup/etc
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| 12:29 | I've now backed up to an older /etc, but there are some ssh known_hosts problems... Gives me the eavesdropping error in ldm.log
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| 12:29 | when a user tries to login a terminal... any ideas?
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| 12:30 | <Gadi> nubae: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 12:30 | and, if you are on gutsy, you need also: sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 12:31 | and make everybody reboot their terms
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| 12:34 | <johnny> scrapbunny, you're not the only one with the problem :)
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| 12:35 | <scrapbunny> is there anything I can so to track down things and shut them down? I installed watchdog and restarted the server but my lab is acting like there are a ton more computers running then really are
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| 12:37 | <ogra> file bugs az bugzills-gnome.org
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| 12:37 | <scrapbunny> i am thinking of switching to xubuntu desktop to help with speed but i don't want to leave a bunch of phantom gnome users hogging resources
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| 12:37 | <ogra> *bugzilla.gnome.org
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| 12:37 | <johnny> not like any of those fixes will appear in gutsy in any reasonable time frame tho
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| 12:37 | <johnny> or in gnome itself for that matter
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| 12:38 | <ogra> 80% are in gnome i was told
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| 12:38 | already
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| 12:38 | so please file bugs upstream to speed the guys up and make them aware of the prob
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| 12:38 | <johnny> 80% of what?
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| 12:38 | the issues?
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| 12:38 | <ogra> of the issues
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| 12:38 | <johnny> yeah, i'm sure of it
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| 12:38 | <scrapbunny> so what do i want to look for on bugzilla?
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| 12:38 | <ogra> bonobo and dbus shall be fixed i heard
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| 12:39 | <ogra> scrapbunny, the apps that hang
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| 12:39 | file bugs on tehm
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| 12:39 | <johnny> fixed for 2.22 i assume
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| 12:39 | <ogra> *them
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| 12:39 | johnny, indeed
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| 12:39 | <johnny> yeah, but that's a few months away
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| 12:39 | <ogra> sure
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| 12:40 | well, for that time use xterminator or gnome-watchdog
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| 12:40 | or write your own script ...
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| 12:40 | <johnny> i've never heard of gnome-watchdog
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| 12:40 | guess i'll check that out
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| 12:40 | <ogra> the really important thing is that upstream is made aware of it through users filing bugs
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| 12:40 | <scrapbunny> i have gnome-watchdog, should i get xterminator too?
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| 12:41 | <ogra> that shows them the importance so it doesnt go down on the priority list
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| 12:43 | <nubae> hey, my keyboard got stuck... thanks for that Gadi
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| 12:43 | I'm not on site just now, but it didnt work with just ltsp-update-sshkeys, so guess image must be updated too
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| 12:43 | makes sense...
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| 12:45 | if I have several chroots, do I have to do ltsp-update-sskeys just the one time and then ltsp-update-image --arch=
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| 12:46 | <ogra> yup
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| 12:47 | but you can also use -a instead of --arch= its shorter ;)
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| 12:47 | <nubae> ok ltsp-update-sshkeys does all chroots
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| 12:47 | <ogra> right
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| 12:47 | <nubae> ah cool, nice little tip
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| 12:49 | <johnny> scrapbunny, i386 or amd64 ?
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| 12:49 | on the server
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| 12:50 | <nubae> the computer teacher at my school resigned today because they found that admin part of edubuntu too complicated... the school asked me if an admin from a microsoft background should be able to migrate to this systems without too many issues
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| 12:50 | I didnt really know what to say, but the answer should be yes, no?
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| 12:51 | I've never worked with windows servers, but I cant imagine the admin issues would be any different
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| 12:51 | <Gadi> ogra: Im investigating the LTSPFS_TOKEN thing as well atm - cannot find where it is set
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| 12:51 | ltspfs seems to allocate it and read it
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| 12:52 | <ogra> Gadi, tsp-client-core initscript iirc
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| 12:52 | *ltsp
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| 12:52 | <johnny> nubae, i think i'd disagree
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| 12:52 | <Gadi> ah... mcookie
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| 12:53 | <johnny> somebody with a heavy MS background and a lil *nix backgroudn't couldn't even stop me from re logging back into my old account at my old job
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| 12:53 | <nubae> well, these were the complaints: problems logging on, problems with usb, problems with internet connectivity, problems with printing
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| 12:53 | <johnny> internet connectivity ? never heard that one..
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| 12:53 | fernando1 has quit IRC | |
| 12:53 | <johnny> related to ltsp that is
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| 12:53 | pritning, haven't done it..
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| 12:53 | <nubae> heh.. well the teacher/admin didnt even know the difference between ip 4 and 6, nor what dpi meant
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| 12:53 | so...
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| 12:54 | <ogra> he shouldnt need to
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| 12:54 | <nubae> as a teacher?
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| 12:54 | I think its pretty important knowledge
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| 12:55 | <ogra> it totally depends how your setup looks like ... i'D say maintaining a single standalone edubuntu server is way easier than maintaining windows
| |
| 12:55 | if you have a setup with multiple servers, ldap etc i'D agree that its more tricky than win
| |
| 12:55 | <nubae> I have to agree, but the school had to decide whether to kick edubuntu and move to Vista or get a more knowledgable admin/teacher
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| 12:56 | after explaining the cost differences alone, they changed their tune...
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| 12:56 | <ogra> well, as long as he knows help.ubuntu.com and learnd reading he should be able to everythig he wants )
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| 12:57 | <nubae> yeah, agreed... but people from a windows background dont usually go to help forums/websites or read any type of manual :-)
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| 12:57 | <ogra> beyond the two or three commandline commands you need for ltsp you can maintain an edubuntu server completely through the gui
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| 12:58 | (uness you step away from the default setup ... but then its assumed that your knowledge level is high enough)
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| 12:59 | nubae, well, we ship a huge handbook in edubuntu especially for edubuntu admins ...
| |
| 12:59 | (plus the server guide and the desktop guide)
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| 13:00 | <nubae> yeah, the biggest issue here was that the admin/teacher in question wanted to use MS and windows products through crossover
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| 13:00 | <ogra> the problem is that windows help is so bad that win people stopped trusting shipped documentation i guess
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| 13:00 | <nubae> and getting that to work flawlessly isnt easy
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| 13:00 | <ogra> it isnt ? i thought crossover would make everything easy there
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| 13:01 | <nubae> in some ways yes, in others no
| |
| 13:01 | getting it installed yes
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| 13:01 | <ogra> i hope you pointed out that he breaks the licensing by doing that on a ltsp server
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| 13:01 | <nubae> oh yes... many times
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| 13:01 | not to mention they werent paying for ms office anyway
| |
| 13:01 | <ogra> (unless you have multiuser liceses for al MS apps you want to use)
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| 13:02 | <nubae> well, I think its just the radical move to open source that the teacher/admin couldnt take
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| 13:03 | people from ms backgrounds still have the idea that open source means unsupported and unprepared software
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| 13:03 | <ogra> well, you can buy edubuntu terminal server support at canonical ... its even cheap ;)
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| 13:03 | <nubae> really? give me a link
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| 13:04 | <ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid
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| 13:04 | <nubae> that would be a great plus to show the school
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| 13:04 | <ogra> Thin client and cluster support $1200 (USD)* for 9x5 support (9h 5 days)
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| 13:04 | <nubae> as many clients as one wants?
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| 13:04 | <ogra> $4000 (USD)* for 24x7
| |
| 13:04 | sure
| |
| 13:05 | <scrapbunny> sorry had to grab a class i am using i386
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| 13:05 | <nubae> so if its connected to the net, you'd support it remotely entirely?
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| 13:05 | <warren> ogra, how many thin clients?
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| 13:05 | ogra, or servers
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| 13:05 | <ogra> warren, one thin client server ...
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| 13:05 | <warren> ogra, how can you verify that I have only one?
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| 13:05 | * warren evil grin. | |
| 13:05 | <nubae> man, that is cheap...
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| 13:05 | <ogra> no limitation on clients ... (beyond the HW restrictions indeed)
| |
| 13:06 | <nubae> is this marketed... this support, because its the first I've heard about it
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| 13:06 | <warren> "My 900 clients aren't working on this one server. Help me!"
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| 13:06 | <ogra> warren, i dont wor in any of our support offices, no idea how they make sure you only run one :)
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| 13:06 | well, thats easy they'll point you to the miimal reqs :)
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| 13:06 | <nubae> heh
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| 13:06 | <ogra> nubae, it exists since 2 years ... but i'm not sure how much it was marketed
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| 13:06 | <nubae> I guess u cant have like 150 different types of hardware
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| 13:07 | <scrapbunny> if i have a dell poweredge 1750 server with 3 gig memory should i be able to run 30 dell gx 110's as clients running gnome or should i switch to xfce?
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| 13:07 | <ogra> the marketing team grew only over the last 6 months and currently focuses more on ubuntu-server i guess
| |
| 13:08 | scrapbunny, i'd add another gig and leave it as is
| |
| 13:09 | switching the desktop wont magically make everything better ... xfce will have different drawbacks ... i.e. there is a bug they dont get fixes where every user can shut down the server etc ...
| |
| 13:09 | you will get rid of one set of probs but face others
| |
| 13:10 | if you are very familiar with xfce i'd go ahead, but if you have to learn all the diferent stuff it needs from scratch i dont think its worth the effort
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| 13:10 | elisboa_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:11 | <scrapbunny> that is what i was thinking but i am up to 19 clients and the system is running really slow. i think that part of the problem is the after school program not logging the computers out but just turning them off
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| 13:11 | <nubae> scrapbunny, I have that problem all the time... zombie processes
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| 13:11 | one really needs to go through and see what processes are still lurking eating memory and cpu time
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| 13:12 | <ogra> scrapbunny, does the server need to run through the night ... worst case just reboot it at 00:00 as ugly workaround
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| 13:12 | * ogra ponts to sudo crontab -e | |
| 13:12 | <ogra> *points
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| 13:12 | <nubae> or every couple days manually see whats causing the process overrun...
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| 13:12 | <scrapbunny> ogra- the shutdown bug is why i switch back from xfce after it loaded as a purposed update : )
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| 13:13 | <nubae> I had to educate the teachers that they cant open 10 instances of tuxpaint on the same computer :-)
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| 13:13 | elisboa has quit IRC | |
| 13:13 | <ogra> thats not as bad as tuxmath :)
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| 13:13 | you wouldnt run 5 instances of it
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| 13:13 | <johnny> i run a script at night that looks over all terminal group members and pkill's all leftovers
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| 13:13 | <nubae> hehe... well, u should see the crossover stuff
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| 13:14 | <scrapbunny> ogra-i have been restarting the server. that should force everything to close right?
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| 13:14 | <ogra> johnny, why not just shut down the server at nicght and save power ?
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| 13:14 | <nubae> the teacher was using paintshop pro through crossover and boy o boy does that eat memory and cpu time
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| 13:14 | <ogra> scrapbunny, right
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| 13:14 | <johnny> it's in use at night
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| 13:14 | <ogra> oh, ok
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| 13:15 | <scrapbunny> tux paint has been slow but ok, i just have to do a bug report that it will not totally close
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| 13:15 | <johnny> we run our point of sale software in it, so folks often login and run it remotely
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| 13:15 | or run other finance reports
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| 13:15 | <ogra> scrapbunny, do that please, i'll look into it in hardy
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| 13:16 | <nubae> I've been using gnucash... thats really cool soft... very developed
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| 13:16 | <ogra> i left the edu apps aside a bit the last release, to many ltsp changes ... for hardy i'll switch the balance again :)
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| 13:16 | <johnny> yeah, he uses that for accounting
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| 13:16 | almost fully open shop here
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| 13:16 | <ogra> what do they use ?
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| 13:16 | <scrapbunny> i have gnome-watchdog but is there another script/program/command line to check and kill zombie processes?
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| 13:17 | * ogra only knows bananapos ... but that seemed dead last time i looked | |
| 13:17 | <nubae> I found a very cool open source school reports system called CLASS
| |
| 13:17 | <johnny> ogra, it's called infoshopkeeper
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| 13:17 | <ogra> scrapbunny, xterminator from moquist
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| 13:17 | johnny, oss software ?
| |
| 13:17 | <johnny> yes
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| 13:18 | <scrapbunny> back on the crossover, i didn't think wine or crossover would be a good idea on thin clients. i might try a few things : )
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| 13:18 | <ogra> hmm, we should ackage it in ubuntu :)
| |
| 13:18 | *package
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| 13:18 | <nubae> CLASS is similar to school tool, but specific for writing reports for mid and end of term, managing classes, and student details
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| 13:18 | <johnny> the subtitle is "Free Software with a circled A" if that means anything to you
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| 13:18 | <ogra> scrapbunny, well, it puts some extra load on the server ...
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| 13:18 | <nubae> scrapbunny, crossover works fine, as long as you dont rely on it for every single client
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| 13:18 | <ogra> johnny, it does :)
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| 13:19 | <nubae> ogra... about 10x the load of oss software...
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| 13:19 | <ogra> i can imagine
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| 13:19 | <nubae> openoffice uses 10 times less memory than msoffice
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| 13:19 | <johnny> it has a few reporting scripts, a very basic web interface for reports, lending library, book inventory by ISBN, configurable buttons, running a tab
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| 13:19 | Guaraldo has left #ltsp | |
| 13:20 | <johnny> we run it at red emma's
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| 13:20 | the original developer is still there
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| 13:21 | it's also in use at a local pub
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| 13:22 | as well as an infoshop up in montreal
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| 13:22 | <scrapbunny> so far there are very few windows programs that i like better then the free options. my students love tux paint so i wish it worked better and closed on its own
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| 13:22 | <nubae> what about gimp?
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| 13:22 | <johnny> scrapbunny, so.. are you willing to pay for it :)
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| 13:22 | <nubae> or these younger students
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| 13:23 | fernando1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:23 | <scrapbunny> i have first through fifth grade
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| 13:24 | <johnny> ogra, oh yeah.. it also integrates with a cash drawer , but our drawer is broken an we haven't replaced it
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| 13:24 | so i don't know if it really works after a year
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| 13:25 | we also want to do a more granular inventory system , especially for the pub around the corner
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| 13:25 | so we can estimate how much liquor has been used :)
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| 13:26 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:26 | <scrapbunny> i am playing more and more with the gcompris
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| 13:27 | <nubae> yeah that and childsplay is great
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| 13:28 | childsplay works better in terms of memory usage actually... and now it has more plugins (used to be just 2) I think its easier to use than gcompris
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| 13:30 | <scrapbunny> how old of a child does childsplay work with though?
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| 13:31 | <nubae> from 2-10
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| 13:31 | a little younger than gcompris in some cases
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| 13:31 | <scrapbunny> cool
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| 13:32 | <nubae> theres a lot of good soft coming out now for primary students
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| 13:32 | there it really blows windows away
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| 13:33 | <scrapbunny> i was super excited to see that using epiphany instead of firefox helped with internet speed a little
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| 13:33 | <nubae> have u got a proxy in place?
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| 13:35 | <ogra> scrapbunny, you shoudl try firefox 3.0 :)
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| 13:35 | its immensely fast ...
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| 13:35 | saldy not 100% stable yet
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| 13:39 | <scrapbunny> where would i get firefox 3?
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| 13:40 | <ogra> scrapbunny, apt-get install firefox-3.0 :)
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| 13:40 | but dont use it in production
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| 13:50 | <scrapbunny> ok what was that?
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| 13:50 | <johnny> netsplit
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| 13:51 | <nubae> ah... I have one client that doesnt seem to want to work due to graphics issues, it carries a intel GMA 1300
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| 13:51 | anything special I need under XSERVER settings?
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| 13:54 | 3100 GMA even
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| 13:54 | <ogra> X_COLOR_DEPTH=24
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| 13:54 | intel cards try to start with 32bit by default which most of them dont suport
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| 13:54 | <nubae> tried that... already have that for some other clients
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| 13:55 | also tried to set it to 16 bit color depth
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| 14:00 | <scrapbunny> thanks a bunch for all the help, as always. i am off to try xterminator and firefox 3 :)
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| 14:03 | <johnny> i'd like to see the code for xterminator
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| 14:04 | <BadMagic> ok, well switched back to Xorg (using aiglx instead of Xgl) so I should be ok now. BTW: If anyone is using nVidia binary, use aiglx instead of Xgl!
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| 14:04 | <ogra> johnny, i think its public in moquist's LP bzr branch
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| 14:04 | <johnny> actually nividia doesn't use aiglx
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| 14:04 | it has it's own implementation
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| 14:04 | it definitely shouldn't use xglx tho
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| 14:05 | ogra, last i checked it was broken, couldn't even view the files
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| 14:05 | <BadMagic> I had to set Option aiglx true in xorg.conf
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| 14:06 | <ogra> johnny, https://code.launchpad.net/~moquist/
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| 14:06 | <BadMagic> oops, all msgs supposed to go to #suse, sorry.......
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| 14:06 | <ogra> https://launchpad.net/~moquist/+archive for binaries
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| 14:07 | <scrapbunny> ortuno3
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| 14:07 | sorry, typing in the wrong window
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| 14:07 | <nubae> hope that wasnt a password ;-)
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| 14:07 | <ogra> change it if it was :)
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| 14:07 | <johnny> why does launchpad make it so difficult to navigate
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| 14:07 | i can't even find a link to src under code
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| 14:08 | <ogra> johnny, the branch is just in fron of you with the link i posted
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| 14:08 | just click on it
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| 14:08 | <johnny> i did
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| 14:08 | <scrapbunny> no just a username
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| 14:08 | <johnny> oh i had to click on the word main, not the name
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| 14:08 | <scrapbunny> :)
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| 14:08 | <ogra> yeah, thats the branch name
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| 14:08 | scrapbunny has left #ltsp | |
| 14:09 | <johnny> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~moquist/xterminator/main/files totally empty
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| 14:09 | no revs but initial, and no files
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| 14:10 | <ogra> hmm, right, you should ping moquist then
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| 14:10 | even though its just scripts, you can just get the debian package and unpack it
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| 14:12 | <johnny> sure.. if i was on a debian box :)
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| 14:12 | or ubuntu box for that matter
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| 14:12 | atm
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| 14:13 | aha.. the 2nd link had a way to get a tar.gz
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| 14:13 | yay
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| 14:14 | <ogra> debs are just ar archives
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| 14:14 | file-roller should open it for you
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| 14:14 | or the KDE equivalent however its called
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| 14:15 | <johnny> funny guy
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| 14:15 | # $Id: killing-me-mostly,v 1.7 2007/04/16 12:29:32 moquist Exp moquist $
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| 14:16 | <johnny> i don't have to install that in the chroot?
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| 14:16 | <ogra> no idea, never used it
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| 14:17 | <johnny> it looks like an ldm rc
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| 14:17 | <ogra> i guess it is
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| 14:17 | its the easiest way to kill stuff
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| 15:08 | <joebob777as7> iMacGyver, did rebuilding chroot fix your issue?
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| 15:11 | <iMacGyver> joebob777as7: didn't try it, running the gnome-watchdog now
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| 15:12 | <joebob777as7> what's that?
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| 15:14 | <iMacGyver> kills user processes when it detects the panel is gone for more than X seconds
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| 15:14 | it also looks to see if they have processes already running on login and gives the option to kill them
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| 15:14 | <joebob777as7> gotcha cool
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| 15:15 | <iMacGyver> i also made my own script to kill everyone at 8pm ;-)
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| 15:15 | <joebob777as7> that should be included in gnome
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| 15:26 | lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:26 | <lns> Wassup all
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| 15:27 | <joebob777as7> lots of thin clients and no local devices lns. what abou tyou?
| |
| 15:27 | <lns> Hey has anyone figured out a way to have global bookmarks in Firefox (I.E. shared between all user accounts) ? A teacher is requesting this and I'm not sure where to go. I can't simply make a script that makes a link to the bookmark.htm file but every profile dirname is different, so /etc/skel is out..
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| 15:28 | joebob777as7, sorry to hear that!
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| 15:28 | <joebob777as7> lns, couldn't you change the profiles configuration file to point to /home/profiledirofsharedprofile?
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| 15:28 | shoudl be pretty easy
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| 15:28 | *should
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| 15:29 | <lns> shared firefox profiles?
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| 15:29 | well
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| 15:29 | <joebob777as7> yeah
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| 15:29 | <lns> hmm..never heard of that!
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| 15:30 | the thing is, the students should be able to bookmark their own stuff too
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| 15:30 | <joebob777as7> might work dunno...
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| 15:32 | <stgraber> can't you just create a common bookmark.htm file somewhere, set the write permissions correctly and symlink all of the others to this one ?
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| 15:32 | you can easily guess the path to bookmarks.htm even if the profile name is random
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| 15:33 | cat ~/.mozilla/firefox/`cat ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles.ini | grep Path | sed s/.*=//`/bookmarks.html
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| 15:33 | for an example
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| 15:35 | <joebob777as7> yeah i didn't realize that it saves all the bookmarks in an html file sounds easier than shared profiles less chance for conflict.
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| 15:37 | <stgraber> so you can easily do a shell script doing for each of your user a "rm" then a "ln -sf" to your common bookmarks file and that should be it
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| 15:47 | <scrapbunny> hi again. how do i make sure i am getting the highest internet connection possible on thin clients? I know i had to do a bunch of fixes to fix the speed on my laptop with 7.10
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| 16:07 | <lns> oh man, sorry =) was afk
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| 16:08 | stgraber, thank you for that info, didn't know the bookmarks location was in profiles.ini
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| 16:09 | OIC, nm
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| 16:30 | <ogra> vagrantc, hey
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| 16:30 | the themeing in ldm is totally broken ... and i dont understand why :/
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| 16:33 | <markvandenborre> hi all, I'm a volunteer for a local primary school
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| 16:34 | I've run an ltsp setup for this school for three years now, and there is need for replacement
| |
| 16:35 | there is one question that I had to answer "no" to 3 years ago that might have become a "maybe" or "partially" or "depends on the program"
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| 16:35 | and that is ... Wine and educational applications
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| 16:35 | how feasible is this?
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| 16:36 | <richard__> markvandenborre, what are you asking?
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| 16:36 | <lns> markvandenborre, it completely depends on the program
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| 16:36 | <markvandenborre> what I'm asking is mostly: how resource hungry and stable
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| 16:36 | is wine in a thin client context
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| 16:37 | resource hungry I mean mostly on the network side
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| 16:37 | there won't be more than 3 clients per 100 Mbit connection to the server
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| 16:37 | <lns> markvandenborre, network bandwidth also depends on how the progam is made/uses animations, etc
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| 16:37 | <markvandenborre> I see...
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| 16:37 | <ogra> you can ignore the network side ... the CPU utilization on teh server will be your bottleneck
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| 16:38 | <markvandenborre> ogra: dual quad core xeon
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| 16:38 | <lns> ogra, very true in most cases
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| 16:38 | <ogra> it will be more serious than the network stuff
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| 16:38 | <markvandenborre> ok
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| 16:38 | <lns> For instance, i have shockwave plugin running on a dual dual-core xeon 1.6 w/8GB RAM for 35 clients
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| 16:38 | <markvandenborre> how ram intense is this stuff?
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| 16:38 | <lns> when they're all in firefox, using shockwave (this is crossover office, but same diff)...the cpu is pretty much tacked out, but still very responsive to the clients
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| 16:39 | <markvandenborre> I asked scott b at uds boston, but I didn't really make decent notes
| |
| 16:39 | <lns> ram also depends on the program
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| 16:39 | <markvandenborre> I knew he said something about decent cpu
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| 16:39 | <lns> if you have 3 clients on a dual quad-core xeon i wouldn't worry about it =p
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| 16:39 | <ogra> heh, yeah
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| 16:39 | <markvandenborre> it's more like distributed...
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| 16:40 | 3 per 100 Mbit link to the server, about 35 in total
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| 16:40 | <lns> ...?
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| 16:40 | <richard__> depends on the app as well
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| 16:40 | <lns> like 3 sharing a single 100mbit link each?
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| 16:40 | on a hub or something?
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| 16:41 | <markvandenborre> two 100 Mbit switches with gigabit uplink to the svr
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| 16:41 | <lns> ok
| |
| 16:41 | <markvandenborre> 35 clients in total, throughout the building
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| 16:41 | just checking if the specs for the new machine are somewhat in line with the optimum
| |
| 16:42 | for stuff like youtube on the clients
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| 16:42 | (wine is just a "happy if it is stable and working, nothing lost otherwise"
| |
| 16:42 | )
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| 16:42 | dual quadcore, 4 Gb ram, 3x146 Gb 15k rpm sas disks in hardware raid 5, dual gigabit
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| 16:43 | <lns> i'm using similar server hardware and with all 35 stations running flash/shockwave stuff through cxoffice it handles pretty well
| |
| 16:43 | <markvandenborre> my only concern is the ram requirements
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| 16:43 | is 4 Gb enough?
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| 16:43 | <lns> markvandenborre, is this 64bit OS?
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| 16:43 | <ogra> you need roughly 128M per logged in user
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| 16:43 | and i wuldnt run it 64bit
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| 16:43 | <markvandenborre> ogra: I won't
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| 16:44 | <lns> ahh, what's the fun in that?
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| 16:44 | <ogra> just makes flash and friends complcated
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| 16:44 | <lns> what about the new nspluginwrapper?
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| 16:44 | <ogra> lns, you dont really gain anything in running 64bit
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| 16:44 | only for apps that really make use of it
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| 16:44 | <markvandenborre> I'd love to put gnash on there, but I'm afraid the students & teachers wouldn't really appreciate that ;)
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| 16:44 | <ogra> which are ... gimp ...
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| 16:45 | dunno which others but they are not really many
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| 16:45 | all others are just 32bit apps compiled for 64bit ...
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| 16:45 | <lns> ogra, but when an OS is packaged for 64-bit they're all compiled for it right? are there specific calls in the code for 64-bit stuff that people have to use to actually make it sensible? (IANAP)
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| 16:46 | <richard__> wouldn't it be best to install 64 bit on the server but use i386 chroot?
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| 16:46 | <lns> man...i wish i knew that before i installed 3 servers..heh
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| 16:46 | <ogra> wellm, you have to make use of the bigger variable length, the threading etc ... 64bit makes sense if you run a heavily loaded apache server
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| 16:46 | <richard__> since he's using more than 3.5GB ram?
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| 16:47 | <ogra> if youuse the ubuntu 32bit server kernel you can make use of 64G ram
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| 16:47 | <richard__> oh ok how do you recompile to do that?
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| 16:47 | <markvandenborre> ogra, others... I will be ruthlessly testing the improvements you guys made to the thin client experience since I installed this machine with debian stable in 2k4
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| 16:47 | beware!
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| 16:48 | <ogra> richard__, no idea i havent compiled a kernel since i use ubuntu ... there is simply no need for that
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| 16:48 | markvandenborre, feel free to hunt me down if you find probs :)
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| 16:48 | <markvandenborre> :)
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| 16:49 | <richard__> i'm running an ubuntu gutsy server with ltsp 64 bit server. i didn't know i could use different kernel for i386...
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| 16:49 | markvandenborre, good luck with local devices
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| 16:49 | <markvandenborre> ogra: any gem you created that I should really try and use/demo to the teachers?
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| 16:49 | richard__: how so?
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| 16:49 | <ogra> there is -generic (the default) -server (up to 64G ram) -biiron (not sure but it can handle serveral TB orf ram and u to 64 CPUs)
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| 16:49 | *-bigiron
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| 16:50 | <richard__> markvandenborre, i've had it hit and miss for me but i'm using gutsy... so mighrt be smoothly for you
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| 16:50 | <ogra> oh and i forgot -386 for small footprints
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| 16:50 | <lns> "Wouldn't it be sweet to bag one of those Gibsons? OOoooOO!" lol
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| 16:50 | <richard__> ok i'll look into it ogra
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| 16:50 | <ogra> richard__, apt-cache search linux-image ;)
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| 16:50 | <richard__> thx ogra
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| 16:52 | * markvandenborre is looking into user management tools... ldap integration in particular, but also student screen overview & stuff... | |
| 16:53 | <ogra> iTalc :)
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| 16:55 | <markvandenborre> that's the stuff I need to read upon
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| 16:56 | thx ogra!
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| 17:03 | <markvandenborre> hm, ogra, is there a doc somewhere obvious where the existance of this is italc stuff documented?
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| 17:03 | <ogra> http://italc.sourceforge.net/
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| 17:03 | if thats enough
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| 17:04 | we'll likel switch edubuntu to it by default in the upcoming release
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| 17:04 | *likely
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| 17:04 | <markvandenborre> ogra: I can find my way around it, that's not a problem, really
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| 17:05 | but I see that you may not want to promote it heavily before having it in there by default...
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| 17:06 | <ogra> ??
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| 17:06 | why shouldnt i
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| 17:06 | i'm convinced enough of it to want to have it by default :)
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| 17:07 | <markvandenborre> heh
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| 17:12 | what about user management tools in the sense of ldap?
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| 17:12 | the school is a fairly simple situation with one server and a fairly static set of users
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| 17:13 | <ogra> edsadmin is pretty nice ... lat was considered for upstream inclusion in gnome ... there are plenty tools out ther
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| 17:13 | e
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| 17:16 | <markvandenborre> do you think ldap is worth the effort in this kind of setup or overkill?
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| 17:16 | <markvandenborre> no MS Windows machines in the classroom network
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| 17:16 | fairly static <300 audience
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| 17:18 | <ogra> how many servers will you have ?
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| 17:18 | <markvandenborre> just one
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| 17:18 | <ogra> if you start scattering users over the network (i.e. have real workstations etc) yu should use some network auth mechanism ...
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| 17:19 | <markvandenborre> ogra: not really the case, that's the beauty and simplicity here
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| 17:19 | <ogra> if you only run a single ltsp server centralized i woudlntbother with ldap
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| 17:19 | <markvandenborre> I started off by throwing 088 and 286 machines out of the window
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| 17:19 | replaced it with this :)
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| 17:20 | they went from the steam era right into the future: all converted to free software at once ;)
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| 17:22 | <ogra> but you loose all the fun like preparing the oven in the morning to get enoug steam etc
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| 17:23 | <markvandenborre> yeah, nostalgia...
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| 17:23 | the part I really miss are the 35 kg IBM keyboards
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| 17:23 | managed to save one though
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| 17:23 | <ogra> metal ones ?
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| 17:23 | <markvandenborre> they made some _really_ heavy ones
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| 17:24 | <ogra> yeah, i'm hunting these since years
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| 17:24 | <markvandenborre> their weight is a multiple of that of the laptop currently in front of me
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| 17:25 | <ogra> thast fine for a desktop keyboard :)
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| 18:59 | <lns> hey maybe you guys can clarify this for me
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| 19:00 | i'm trying to implement global firefox bookmarks for ~200 students, with a simple hard link to /home/share/firefox/bookmarks.html
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| 19:00 | i didn't really understand the diff between symlinks/hard links before this but maybe it's supposed to do this...
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| 19:01 | symlinks wouldn't work when a user with the correct privs added a new bookmark
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| 19:01 | so i created a hard link...logged in as user1 (had perms to the original file) - made a new bookmark, it stuck for that user.
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| 19:03 | hold on..verifying
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| 19:04 | ok so each user can add his/her own bookmarks and it works if the file is symlinked from their profile
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| 19:04 | but it's fragmented from the time you link it...so even if a user can change an original file (has permissions to) it will only change in the hard linked file
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| 19:05 | i guess that's the way it's supposed to work, that just sucks because it's not going to be as easy for me now..wish ff would allow symlinking of bookmarks.html file...
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| 20:24 | <jammcq> hey all
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| 22:10 | <vernier> LDM autologin does not work for me in LTSP5 (debian etch) ... I get a frozen black screen with a X and I can't even ctrl alt F1 so have to hard reboot
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| 22:11 | <vernier> perhaps related: LDM ltsp5 does not tolerate incorrect logins: it also freezes up and requires hard reboot
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| 22:12 | also: changing user in LDM causes a freeze up
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| 22:12 | otherwise everything works fine :-)
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| 22:13 | <warren> LDM on the server or client?
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| 22:13 | <vernier> LDM on the client machine
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| 22:13 | client machine running ldm vt7 :1
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| 22:13 | i mean :0
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| 23:05 | <sutula> vernier: AFAIK, LDM autologin is broken in ltsp5...I think that's a known issue
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| 23:07 | vernier: Other than that, I have an Etch system and it doesn't have trouble with incorrect logins
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| 23:32 | <vernier> thank you sutula: i did not know that was a known issue and i thought i read almost every posting on the subject in the mailing list
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| 23:32 | there must be another source of knowledge i am missing such as bug manager?
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| 23:45 | <vernier> oh i see... the IRC logs are the missing source of wisdom :-) i just read the relevant bits
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