IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 December 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:30 | <alkisg> gbaman: what's broken on the desktop?
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| 09:44 | <markit> hi alkisg, did you read that last epoptes fixed the broadcast? Now works fine
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| 09:45 | btw, what do you mean with "If you need to customize /etc, you can do so with POST_INIT_x commands" ? Do I have to enter there a sort of "echo newparameter=something >> /etc/whatever.conf" there?
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| 09:45 | <alkisg> markit: I did read it, but there were no related changes, so it must have been something else
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| 09:46 | Yes, or you can put files in /etc/ltsp/*, and they will reach the client via ltsp.img, and you can then symlink or cp them
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| 09:49 | <markit> like POST_INIT_SWAPPINES="cat /etc/ltsp/sysctl.conf >> /etc/sysctl.conf" ?
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 09:50 | <markit> great!
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> If it's just a few lines, you can include them directly in ltsp.conf
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| 09:51 | POST_INIT_SWAPPINESS="echo 'line1
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| 09:51 | line2' >> /etc/sysctl.conf"
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| 09:51 | <markit> I set client swappiness to 10, should be much better than default 60
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> Swap is broken in linux, I don't expect playing with swappiness or zswap or zram to help much
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| 09:52 | There's an effort to fix it by the kernel devs
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| 09:53 | <markit> btw, yesterday I went crasy with modifications in /etc/sddm.conf.d/, behaviour was very bizarre... then I realized that ALL files there are processed, not only the *.conf ones, but also *.conf~ produced by emacs :(
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> Isn't SDDM_CONF in ltsp.conf enough?
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| 09:54 | The idea is that you touch /etc/sddm* only if you want to change things on the server
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| 09:54 | And then for the clients, you modify ltsp.conf
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| 09:54 | <markit> Yes, I want it changed on the server too
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> ok
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| 09:56 | <markit> I tried epoptes from a client, logging as administrator, but the epoptes server is not present in the image AFAIU
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> Do you mean the epoptes server key?
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| 09:56 | <markit> is there a way for a teacher to use a client instead of the server?
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> The epoptes binary is there, isn't it?
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| 09:56 | Sure, with passwordless ssh -X
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| 09:57 | <markit> from the client I run epoptes from K menu but nothing happened
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> The only reason to run epoptes directly on the client, without ssh -X, would be if an ltsp client is the epoptes server *instead* of the ltsp server being the epoptes server
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| 09:57 | Which one is the epoptes server?
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| 09:57 | The ltsp server or the ltsp client?
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| 09:58 | <markit> well, the ltsp server, then I would love to be able to have the teacher connect and use it not only from the ltsp server but also from a ltsp client
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> That's what I said about passwordless ssh -X
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| 09:58 | Google about passwordless ssh, it needs ssh-copy-id
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| 09:59 | <markit> (so I could move the ltsp server to the Proxmox school's server into a VM)
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> Then you can run whatever program you want remotely, not just epoptes
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| 09:59 | <markit> Oh, I see.
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| 10:00 | Btw, do you think that wayland is something interesting for the 20.04? Better stay in X-Windows for a couple of decades more? :)
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> wayland doesn't support screen sharing etc
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| 10:00 | So forget about epoptes and all related programs there
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| 10:00 | ssh -X won't work, remote desktop, lock screen, screen broadcasting etc
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| 10:01 | I guess they'll need a few more years to get that part ready. THEN I'll be able to move to wayland; your needs may vary :)
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| 10:01 | <markit> so it's broken by desigh
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> They're slowly implementing a pipewire and a gnome-remote-desktop thing
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| 10:01 | But it'll need years for real programs to work with those
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| 10:02 | <markit> ok
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| 10:04 | With ltsp5 chroot I had the possibility to install some programs on the server and not in chroot for the clients, is there some way to do the same? What about the "default application"? I mean, if programs X,Y,Z can open i.e. .pdf, and I remove X from the client image, will .pdf be open by Y or an error will occur?
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| 10:04 | <alkisg> markit: it might be possible to forward just the socket, instead of the whole epoptes gui... I'll check, ask me again later
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| 10:04 | You can still have chroots and images in the new ltsp
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| 10:04 | Even virtualbox VMs, which are a lot easier to maintain than chroots
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| 10:04 | Think if your use case needs different apps, or just hidden apps
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| 10:05 | If you need different apps on the server vs the clients, then just use a virtualbox or proxmox vm
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| 10:06 | <markit> that way I would have "nested virtualization" if I move ltsp server to a Proxmox VM
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| 10:07 | <alkisg> The vm doesn't need to be maintained ON the server
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| 10:07 | You can maintain it on proxmox, and just share it to the server with whatever means
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| 10:07 | You can either mount it as a disk, or via nfs, or however you like
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| 10:07 | Then you run `ltsp image`, and you an unmount it
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| 10:07 | *can
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| 10:08 | <markit> mmm interesting, I will ask you about "how" and try myself another time, don't want to abuse your precious time. Thanks a lot
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| 10:08 | <alkisg> np
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| 10:08 | (you can still use chroots if you like them; but imho they are too many programs that just don't work well in chroots)
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| 10:10 | <markit> well, just I could have programs that are important in the server (like emacs, wireshark, etc) that I don't want to appear in children's clients, or take control of some files (like double click on a .py file and having emacs open it instead of Kate ;P)
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| 10:11 | would love to have a fast way to prevent them to be in the client image
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> chmod -x wireshare is enough to make it not runnable
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| 10:11 | POST_INIT_CHMOD_PROGRAMS="chmod -x ..."
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| 10:11 | <markit> yep! good idea
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| 10:11 | <alkisg> About what opens what, what you describe is per user, not per system
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| 10:12 | <alkisg> You want *markit* to open them with emacs, not "server"
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| 10:12 | So if markit logs in on a client, he'd still open them via emacs
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| 10:12 | <markit> isn't a global default association when I install a program? I often have new installed programs take control of a filetype
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| 10:13 | <alkisg> There are both
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| 10:13 | There's the global one, the default for all the users
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| 10:13 | And then each user can select his own, by right click > open with > set as default
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| 10:13 | <markit> I've the feeling that if I install emacs (just an example), all .txt files will be open by it by default for all users
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| 10:14 | I know, but young children can't do it
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| 10:14 | <alkisg> YOU would do that
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| 10:14 | The default would be kate
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| 10:14 | <markit> teachers here are.... ehm... not very good with computers?
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| 10:14 | <alkisg> Your own override would be emacs
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| 10:14 | Don't force emacs to the users. Leave the default, kate. Only use emacs for yourself.
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| 10:15 | Try it, you need some reading, if you have questions when you try it, ping again
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| 10:15 | <markit> I just thought emacs installation whould have taken precedence for ALL users by default, and I had to change back to Kate user by user, but I will try, thanks
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| 10:16 | <alkisg> There's a priority
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| 10:16 | Each package defines its priority
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| 10:16 | I believe emacs would have lower priority than kate
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| 10:16 | So you need to change markit settings only. Not system settings at all.
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| 10:16 | <markit> was just an example of a program with higher priority, I don't know for sure either
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| 10:17 | <alkisg> Google for `update-alternatives`, `xdg-open`, `xdg-mime`, and check right click > open as
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| 10:17 | *open with
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| 10:17 | <markit> but the question was "if I need a program of higher priority only for teacher on the server, how can I have all clients stay with older priority?"
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| 10:17 | <alkisg> It shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes to learn those
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| 10:17 | I answered it 5 times already :(
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| 10:17 | I don't know how else to answr it
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| 10:18 | teacher uses USER settings, clients use SYSTEM settings
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| 10:18 | It's very easy to do that
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| 10:18 | <markit> I thought there was a misunderstanding, I will re-read carefully your answers and, better, try them :)
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| 10:19 | (I'm also doing 3 things at the same time, just using the time I can spend on IRC when you are available to ask questions I will try later when I can)
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> Yey!
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| 10:27 | markit: with ssh socket forwarding, it's possible to run the epoptes gui from wherever, and additionally fast, without having to forward Xorg
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| 10:27 | <alkisg> I'll write a how-to in the epoptes site later on
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| 10:28 | You basically run this from the client: mkdir /run/epoptes; chgrp epoptes /run/epoptes; rm /run/epoptes/epoptes.socket; ssh -L /run/epoptes/epoptes.socket:/run/epoptes/epoptes.socket user@server
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| 10:29 | And while this is still running and forwarding the socket, you run epoptes from the menu, and it works fine
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| 10:38 | <markit> thanks, I copy and paste in my ltsp notes and try later :)
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| 10:41 | * alkisg also notes another way that won't require ssh at all: http://www.dest-unreach.org/socat/doc/socat-openssltunnel.html | |
| 10:41 | <alkisg> I'll need to automate that one
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| 11:17 | <kvaps> Hey, I just I found and forked cool tftp server: https://github.com/kvaps/trivialt/
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> Heya kvaps
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| 11:18 | <kvaps> It supports single port mode, and can be used over Nat
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> Does it have any benefits over dnsmasq or tftpd-hpa?
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| 11:19 | When we needed proxydhcp, we asked the dnsmasq developer, simon, and he implemented it
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| 11:19 | If you need that, and dnsmasq doesn't support it, why not just ask about it?
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| 11:19 | <kvaps> Is dnsmasq support single port mode for tftp?
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> He supported proxydhcp in a few days, it didn't even take a long time...
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| 11:20 | No idea, but if it doesn't, you should ask simon to support it
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| 11:21 | <kvaps> The problem is that this sungle port mode is not described in RFC or some other document, it's like extra feature, just for avoid firewalls
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> Oh, all the projects have code and workarounds outside of RFCs
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| 11:22 | <kvaps> more details about the single port feature: https://github.com/kvaps/trivialt/#unique-features
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> If other people need it and it doesn't need a lot of code changes, it should be doable
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| 11:23 | <kvaps> That's true, we can try create issue for dnsmasq
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> What are the changes of the fork, compared to https://github.com/vcabbage/go-tftp ?
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| 11:26 | <kvaps> It is just command line client, it uses vcabbage/go-tftp in dependencies
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| 11:27 | alkisg: Is dnsmasq have some bugtracker or just mailing list?
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| 11:27 | <alkisg> Mailing list
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| 11:27 | <kvaps> ok\
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| 11:52 | Feature request sent: http://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2019q4/013650.html
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| 12:11 | <gbaman> alksig got it sorted, involved a bug with the version of qemu shipped with 18.04 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=923289
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| 12:11 | And then need to it seems run update-mime-database /usr/share/mime each time the client boots
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| 12:11 | Running it in the chroot doesn't seem to do a whole lot
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| 12:13 | But now I am using a newer build of qemu and have the mime database being updated each startup on the Pi itself, got a working version of Raspbian on LTSP, directly from a Raspbian SD card image
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| 12:29 | Been doing some thinking though alksig, this change to using ltsp.img with the passwd file, am I not right saying then that any new user or a password change would require a reboot of the client?
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| 13:19 | <alkisg> gbaman: use tab to correctly autocomplete the name, alkisg
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| 13:19 | Yes, a client reboot is required, or at least some method to send the updated passwd/group
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| 13:20 | I had a few issues with qemu as well, so I'm maintaining my raspbian images using nfsrw boot method
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| 13:20 | I.e. I'm booting a client in nfs read-write mode and I'm maintaining the image from there
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| 14:20 | <gbaman> In general alkisg, I haven't found any major issues in the past with qemu chroot method, certainly a lot simpler for teachers than having to make changes on a Pi
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| 14:24 | As for the users stuff, I could see that being an issue. If a user changes their password for example, then the client would need a reboot
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| 14:25 | What's stopping the merge taking place dynamically, each time the greeter is launched, pulling in over sshfs?
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| 14:26 | Or it being live on a share?
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> gbaman: in ltsp so far, users couldn't change their password on fat clients
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| 15:05 | Also, booting an rpi client and selecting "teacher nfsrw mode" is a lot simpler than having to maintain chroots,
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| 15:05 | pulling passwd over sshfs in insecure, as the user has control over sshfs at that point, and he can just return a passwd where he is root
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| 15:08 | <gbaman> Hmm
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| 15:09 | It was definitely at least possible to add accounts while clients were already booted, then log in immediately?
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> Indeed. But that had the security issue I'm mentioning
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| 15:14 | I.e. in ltsp5, any user could easily become root
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| 15:15 | Sometime in the future, the ltsp server needs to run a service; it then can send ltsp.conf or passwd etc over that
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| 15:15 | But without an openssl/https etc service, it's not safely doable
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| 15:22 | <gbaman> Fair enough
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> gbaman: if one runs `rpi-update` and gets a newer kernel, how can he get the kernel-headers for that new kernel?
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