IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 18 April 2008 (all times are UTC)

00:11	<johnny> ok.. that seems to have gone away now too
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03:03	<Q-FUNK> hm. off-topic, but is there any way to make debchange not add ubuntuN to every changelog by default?
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03:24	<ari_stress> hi all
03:24	what is the difference between ltsp and redhat's diskless? (system-config-netboot)
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03:35	<nantes_geek> hi !
03:36	Q-FUNK: hi !
03:38	<ari_stress> hi
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03:45	<Q-FUNK> nantes_geek: hi!
03:48	<nantes_geek> Q-FUNK: i have made compilation all the days with a patched xorg, so i can't run my thin client... So, now i'm sure that i'm not a xorg hacker ...
03:49	<Q-FUNK> nantes_geek: are you in contact with any Mandrake people who maintian X.org? maybe they could help?
04:01	<nantes_geek> i have made a bug report..
04:05	<Q-FUNK> nantes_geek: ok
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04:13	<Q-FUNK> nantes_geek: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14332
04:14	<nantes_geek> Q-FUNK: thanks
04:18	<Q-FUNK> nantes_geek: this is what the Mandrake X maintainer needs to see
04:18	nantes_geek: although these are already in git for the X 1.5
04:19	<nantes_geek> ok
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04:28	<mraudsepp> Q-FUNK: looks like with the DDC patch stuff works on gentoo without the x86emu patches :)
04:31	<Q-FUNK> mraudsepp: interesting. I'm curious what debian+ubuntu did to their x-core packages then
04:31	mraudsepp: is gentoo still using vm86 then, perhaps?
04:32	<mraudsepp> oh, that too. I'm using 1.4.0.90 xorg with some patches right now
04:32	but it froze in vm86 due to BIOS interrupts before
04:32	<Q-FUNK> with vm86, there's never been any issue.
04:33	it's only since the switch to x86emu that things went bad
04:35	bug #182941
04:36	<mraudsepp> ok, but vm86 didn't work either
04:37	[pid 3176] vm86old(0xb7b56220) = -1 ENOSYS (Function not implemented)
04:37	GEODE(0): vm86() syscall generated signal 8.
04:37	hard freeze
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04:38	<Q-FUNK> hmm
04:38	the exact opposite of debian
04:39	might be more useful to bring this up in #xorg-devel, rather than here, though :)
04:39	<mraudsepp> I haven't tried at all with 1.5 prerelease and x86emu
04:40	yeah, was just noting it works now after the Mandriva thing. I don't think anyone in #xorg-devel would care much about it working in 1.4, except Jordan, but same here so I'll mention him and I'm done being off-topic here :)
04:40	<Q-FUNK> reporting about vm86 might still be useful
04:40	:)
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05:25	<DawnLight> if my root filesystem is ro, i can't mount anything, right?
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05:50	<ogra> DawnLight, wrong, you can mount things
05:51	Q-FUNK, hey, thanks for the planner ping :)
05:51	<DawnLight> ogra: how can i mount things?
05:51	<laga> use the mount command
05:52	<Q-FUNK> ogra: welcome :)
05:52	just sad that upstream releases just a few days after our final RC freeze
05:53	ogra: btw, would you remember which debian/rules target to use to delete unnecessary empty dirs that get created by the upstream Makefile's install target?
05:54	<ogra> thats likely one of the binary targets, install is likely to late
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05:59	<nantes_geek> Q-FUNK: pv please ;)
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06:13	<daduke> ogra: moin. I tried the ltspfsd -a for directx usb mounts, but to no avail. Has it worked for you?
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06:26	<ogra> daduke, i didnt try, i just fixed it :)
06:26	<jammcq> hey ogra
06:27	<ogra> -a should drop all auth attempts so it should work in any case, but i didnt test that (rather fixed the issue that caused it ;) )
06:27	daduke, fixd ackages are itting in the ubuntu queue waiting for RC to be out
06:27	<daduke> ogra: I see. I guess I'll wait for vagrantc's backport then.
06:27	<ogra> hey jammcq
06:27	daduke, he wants to pull it into the upstream tree asap
06:28	<jammcq> LDM supports internationalization, doesn't it?
06:28	<ogra> daduke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltspfs/+bug/218962, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltspfs/+bug/218231
06:28	jammcq, not the one currently in hardy, but i hope to have that in for 8.04.1
06:29	<jammcq> but multiple language support now?
06:29	<ogra> the upstream code, yes
06:29	<jammcq> k
06:29	<ogra> but hasnt seen much testing yet etc
06:29	<jammcq> I thought that had been there for a little while already
06:29	<ogra> scottie and i made an attempt to get it going in gutsy
06:29	<jammcq> ah
06:29	<ogra> but failed and both didnt have the time to invest more there
06:30	<daduke> ogra: not urgent. I'll watch it.
06:30	<ogra> so there was a half breeded translation implementation whih debian picked up and with help from cyberorg we got it working :)
06:30	that was a real multi distro effort :)
06:31	<jammcq> i'm preparing for a talk to take place in a couple hours, but i'm finding it very difficult, because i'm just not involved in the development like I used to be.
06:33	<ogra> jammcq, there was a study recently (i dont have the link sadly) that compared the power usage of TC vs real PCs nd came out with 50% cost svings
06:33	<jammcq> hmm, easy to believe that
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06:34	<ogra> jammcq, ah, got it ... sadly its a german PDF http://it.umsicht.fraunhofer.de/TCecology/docs/TCecology2008_de.pdf
06:34	but made by fraunhofer and with reliable numbers
06:35	ah, here is at leas an english website http://it.umsicht.fraunhofer.de/TCecology/index_en.html
06:36	<jammcq> ah, translation available in May 2008 :(
06:38	<ogra> well, you got proven numbers from a quite official institution at least ... who needs he text between the numbers :P
06:38	<jammcq> yes, I'm finding it's quite readable. thanks
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08:06	<jammcq> ogra: LTSP made it into Debian Etch, didn't it?
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08:07	<ogra> yep
08:07	even though the provided version isnt recommended
08:07	<jammcq> out of date?
08:08	<ogra> vagrant provids good backports for etch
08:08	yup
08:08	<jammcq> cool
08:08	<ogra> if you want to point out some urls
08:08	!ubuntu
08:08	<ltspbot> ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
08:08	<ogra> !debian
08:08	<ltspbot> ogra: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
08:08	<jammcq> heh, the bot :)
08:08	!fedora
08:08	* ogra wonders if we have fedora already
08:08	<ltspbot> jammcq: Error: "fedora" is not a valid command.
08:09	<jammcq> hmm
08:09	need to get that one fixed
08:09	!opensuse
08:09	<ltspbot> jammcq: Error: "opensuse" is not a valid command.
08:09	<ogra> i just udated the ubunt doc just now
08:09	<jammcq> !altlinux
08:09	<ltspbot> jammcq: Error: "altlinux" is not a valid command.
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08:11	<FLOLO> hello
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08:13	<jammcq> warren, you around? I need a url for some Fedora/LTSP info
08:14	<ogra> jammcq, oh, have you heard that redhat is drawing back from desktop ?
08:14	<jammcq> again?
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08:14	<ogra> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/04/17/red_hat_abandons_consumer_desktop_market/
08:14	<jammcq> that's not the first time
08:14	<ogra> thought warren said its inaccurately quoted
08:15	<jammcq> first time they did that, is when I switched to Debian
08:15	<ogra> heh
08:15	<jammcq> and I'm glad I did
08:16	<ogra> :)
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08:16	<mraudsepp> the original source seemed to be more in the lines of "RedHat realizes that its money income comes from the server market, but that doesn't stop us from pushing the desktop forward. Here's a list of big things we have done in the desktop area recently"
08:16	<ogra> heard anything from scottie ?
08:16	<jammcq> I talked to scotty on the phone last saturday
08:17	<ogra> ah, good
08:17	<jammcq> I wish I could get him to come around more often
08:17	<cliebow> He's alive!
08:17	<pscheie_> jammcq, https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/
08:17	<jammcq> he brings a certain level of energy to wherever he is
08:18	<ogra> ah, well from a release POV he was tout of bound anyway already
08:18	<pscheie_> for a fedora-ltsp link
08:18	<ogra> so i think he wanted to wait until hardy is out
08:18	i guess he'll be back soon at least from time to time
08:19	<jammcq> pscheie_: thanks a bunch
08:19	<pscheie_> ogra, what do you mean 'out of bound'?
08:19	<ogra> yeah :)
08:19	dunno how the t ended up there :)
08:19	<pscheie_> jammcq, I think there's a nicer looking page somewhere but it's on my lappy which I don't have atm
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08:20	<pscheie_> ogra, not the typo; what is the idea of 'out of bounds from a release POV'?
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08:21	<ogra> pscheie_, not there in time to push in bigger changes
08:21	he wanted to work on localapps for hardy
08:21	but didntmake it due to personal stuff
08:21	and since nobody else had the time, localapps are still pending
08:22	i surely hope he's back for the intrepid release cycle so we get that done in time
08:26	pscheie_, he would have also been helpful for ldm stabilization ... he took my gtk/C port, rewrote most of it and vanished, nobody knows the latest code as good as him, having him here would speed stuff up a lot wrt ldm fixes
08:29	<pscheie_> wasn't ldm originally written in python?
08:29	<ogra> yup
08:29	but it rpoved to be to ram hungry
08:29	*proved
08:29	<pscheie_> kinda slow, too, as I recall
08:30	never got a chance to try it then
08:30	<ogra> so i did a C rewrite .... which was actually a direct port from py to C
08:30	scottie needed password expiry handling so he grabbed that, wrote a new backend and while he was at it rewrote the gui as well :)
08:31	which resulted in ldm2 (which is todays ldm)
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08:32	<ogra> originally ldm was a black screen with a unthemed gtk win in the middle, two input fields and a button :)
08:32	50 lines of python
08:33	<pscheie_> ogra, aesthetics is over-rated ;-)
08:33	<ogra> hehe, yeah, it was pretty lightweight and fast
08:34	the new ldm offers to attach different frontends (initially thought for QT but nobody ever stepped up for that) if i find some spare time i'll write an optional lowend gui again
08:35	in plain xlib :)
08:35	hmm, that actually sounds like a nice holiday project
08:35	<pscheie_> cue "Four Yorkshiremen"
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09:00	<pscheie> Gadi, did you hear from Alan Hodson?
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09:16	<Gadi> I got an email, responded by email, and did not get a response to that response
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09:16	<Gadi> so, now Im worried that he is blocking my emails
09:16	:)
09:16	* Gadi hates email - wants to go back to pigeon
09:16	<warren> You could use pidgin
09:16	<Gadi> don't get me started...
09:16	:P
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09:20	<pscheie> RFC 1149
09:21	IP over Avian Carriers
09:21	* pscheie recalls that someone actually implemented it a year or two ago
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09:44	<pscheie> Gadi, Alan's with the El Paso school district, www.episd.org, if you want to hunt down a phone number and call him
09:45	I just noticed he sent me a reply saying he had heard from you
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10:28	<Gadi> OT: does anyone know how to block random console messages from printing to the screen when I run whiptail dialogs?
10:28	seems anything to stdout from any app gets written on top of the whiptail dialog
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10:30	<ogra> redirect your comand outputs ?
10:31	>/tmp/my_command.log 2>&1
10:31	>/dev/tty9 2>&1
10:31	or something like that
10:32	<Gadi> so, I need to do this for every program that writes a console msg?
10:32	<ogra> i would write a wrapper function :)
10:32	and call all commands through that
10:33	<Gadi> well, I guess most program msgs I want to suppress are services, so I can hack up the functions in lsb-base-logging.sh
10:33	<ogra> that also makes error checking easier
10:33	<Gadi> but yuck
10:33	:)
10:33	<ogra> you are writing a service control tool ?
10:33	<Gadi> too bad I cant just say "whiptail owns the console or the tty)
10:34	<ogra> you can chvt before starting whiptail and chvt back after it ;)
10:34	so it runs on a separate console ;)
10:34	* Gadi thinks the service msgs follow you
10:34	<Gadi> dont they?
10:34	or do they always go to tty1?
10:35	<ogra> i think oly kernel msgs do
10:35	<Gadi> hmm...
10:35	<ogra> (follow you)
10:35	<Gadi> worth a try
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10:35	<Gadi> do you know if I can chvt 2 in an event.d/ file?
10:35	I have the program launch from upstart
10:35	<ogra> no idea
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10:36	<Gadi> okey dokey
10:36	I can always do it in the script
10:36	* Gadi goes to try
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10:36	<Nubae> hi there I'm getting tftp timeout errors
10:37	on my thin clients and not sure why... tftp, dhcp is running
10:37	mac address is correct
10:37	etc.
10:37	PXE: TFTP error file not found
10:37	this is on hardy btw
10:38	<ogra> have you fiddled with your tftp server settings ?
10:38	<Nubae> no
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10:39	<Nubae> noy touched it
10:39	not
10:39	just did apt-get update and then upgrade and then this is happening
10:39	<ogra> is there any possibility that another dhcpd runs anywhere ?
10:40	<Nubae> how can I check that? my answer is 99% no
10:41	<ogra> switch off your ltsp dhcpd and boot a machine ... if it gets network data another dhcpd serves it
10:42	wow, our release announcements get longer with every release :)
10:43	<Nubae> ok, done that, its not that, now the machine just sits trying to get a dhcp response
10:43	<ogra> ok, one thing ruled out
10:43	<Nubae> ok, I restarterd dhcp, where do I go now :-)
10:43	<ogra> i assume /var/lib/tftfboot/ltsp/i386 still contains proper kernel files ?
10:44	an d/etc/inetd.conf has a line for tftp
10:44	<Nubae> yup and yup
10:45	I have the workstation plugin running too, but its on a different port and should not be interfering in any imaginable way
10:46	that is to say, port 2000, 2001, and 2002 have streams on them from the inetd server
10:46	<Blinny> Yeah, I just purged & reinstalled ltsp-server-standalone and that postinstall script did not add the tftp line to /etc/inetd.conf again
10:46	<Nubae> maybe ltsp-client-update?
10:47	<Blinny> Is that bug going to be fixed in Hardy final? That's scary that it fails right OTB
10:48	<Nubae> btw ogra, someone build a low fat client workstation plugin... maybe it should be included in hardy release?
10:50	<laga> workstation plugin?
10:50	<Nubae> yeah
10:50	ubuntu or kubuntu
10:51	check https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients#preview
10:52	<laga> cool
10:52	<Nubae> yeah FOSS works :-)
10:52	<laga> too bad that it's not included in the ltsp tarball :/
10:52	<Nubae> well it could be
10:53	<laga> "<!-- are the python scripts hardcoded to use i386?! --> "
10:53	<Nubae> I guess someone just needs to have look see over it
10:53	<laga> yeah
10:53	<Nubae> no
10:53	choose your chroot using --chroot
10:54	"<!-- are the python scripts hardcoded to use i386?! --> " what does that mean?
10:54	<laga> what python scripts?
10:55	<Nubae> if I can select my own chroot obviously there is nothing hardcoded to use i386
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10:55	<laga> "Put it in /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu and use the switch --workstation followed by Ubuntu or Kubuntu " - why am i told to manually install those desktops later in the documented?
10:55	<Blinny> Yeah that doesn't make sense.
10:56	<Nubae> because that was waht I did before
10:56	the plugin was created later
10:56	and I just pasted it in there
10:56	<laga> the whole "make your own script for nfs mounts" probably is not needed, there's a (brand-new in 8.04) option for lts.conf to disable overwriting of the fstab
10:56	Nubae: ah
10:56	<Nubae> should I put it in a different page?
10:56	<laga> Nubae: well, it's confusing?
10:56	Nubae: did you create the plugin?
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10:57	<Nubae> which Ubuntu howto isn't confusing for the person other than the one who wrote it?
10:57	No
10:57	I wrote the howto
10:57	then someone made a plugin based on that howto
10:57	and I added a link to the plugtin
10:57	<laga> ah, nice.
10:58	<Nubae> II should mention the name I guess too
10:58	otherwise people are gonna think I wrote it
10:58	<laga> you probably should make it clearer that the plugin will do all the work
10:58	<Nubae> Anyway......... back to my earlier problem... I can't get my tftp server to work
10:58	yeah
10:59	<laga> Nubae: i suggest that you file a wishlist bug against LTSP in launchpad to get that plugin included
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11:00	<laga> WORKSTATION=$(echo $WORKSTATION) <- i wonder what that is supposed to do
11:01	<Nubae> take a look now... better?
11:02	<laga> yup :)
11:03	<Nubae> ok, some one please help me now...
11:04	my dhcp server gives out the correct address to the right mac address but then the tftp server fails
11:04	where can I look to fix this?
11:05	<laga> wireshark? system logs like /var/log/daemin.log?
11:05	<Nubae> deamon.log?
11:06	<ogra> Nubae, /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf exists ?
11:06	<laga> yeah
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11:06	<Nubae> ogra yeah
11:06	<laga> the workstation script looks interesting, but i'm afraid it doesnt do LDAP setup
11:06	<Nubae> like I said, the dhcp server is getting the right address to the right mac address
11:06	<likuidkewl> Nubae - inetd.conf & make sure that this: tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
11:06	<laga> and i dont recall seeing anything about NFS shares for home
11:06	<Nubae> LDAP wor5kstaion setup or server?
11:06	<laga> Nubae: workstation
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11:07	<Nubae> hmm... have to edit that then
11:07	<laga> grep -i ldap 030-workstation \| wc -l
11:07	0
11:08	<Nubae> laga, let me fix my tft problem first
11:08	then I'll look at the workstation thingy
11:08	<laga> Nubae: no rush..
11:09	<Gadi> cool
11:09	I killed the console messages for rcS and rc2 in upstart
11:09	:)
11:09	* Gadi likes oneliners
11:09	<ogra> Nubae, grep filename /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
11:09	<Nubae> likuidkewl: that's there
11:09	<ogra> what do you get ?
11:11	<likuidkewl> Nubae - Ok follow Ogra then he is heading you in the right direction.
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11:11	<Nubae> ah... cant find a pastebin
11:11	!pastebin
11:11	<ltspbot> Nubae: Error: "pastebin" is not a valid command.
11:11	<ogra> !pastebot
11:11	<ltspbot> ogra: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
11:11	<ogra> :)
11:12	<likuidkewl> Now for my issues I have Ubuntu 8.04 beta and LTSP5 running
11:12	<ogra> great !
11:12	<ltsppbot> "Nubae" pasted "grep filename" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/509
11:13	<likuidkewl> and I get what seems to be a xorg crash.. Sorry about the accidental return!
11:13	<ogra> Nubae, ugh
11:13	<Nubae> :-)
11:13	<ogra> likuidkewl, what kind of graphics HW ?
11:14	<Nubae> I have to i386s right?
11:14	weird
11:14	<likuidkewl> Ogra - HP Neoware test units.. I am looking for the information now
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11:14	<ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "default ubuntu dhcpd.conf" (22 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/510
11:14	<ogra> Nubae, could you move that file aside and try with a clean one ?
11:16	likuidkewl, is that definately beta ? the last build before beta had a bug that prevented X from starting at all
11:17	<Nubae> ogra: and use the one you just pasted?
11:18	I shouldnt change the one u pasted to show my server as 0.254?
11:18	<likuidkewl> Ogra - It is beta, we can get to the gdm and then login, but auth takes a few ticks then the "X" pointer appears, then animation takes over and bam back to the gdm
11:20	<Nubae> ogra: same error
11:21	but!.... I think the dhcp server is using the /etc/dhcp3/dhcp.conf file
11:21	could that be?
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11:24	<likuidkewl> Ogra - NeoWare e90 still looking for the grfx info
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11:25	<Nubae> ogra: yep... dhcp-server is looking for dhcp.conf in /etc/dhcp3/
11:26	what can I do to return it to normal conditions purge and reinstall ltsp-serer-standalone?
11:31	<ogra> Nubae, grep CONFIG_FILE /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server ?
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11:33	<Nubae> ogra: nada
11:33	<ogra> grep deian /etc/apt/sources.list
11:34	grep debian /etc/apt/sources.list
11:34	<Nubae> its there, but masked
11:34	<ogra> you definately dont run ubunus dhcp3-server package if the grep didnt return anyting
11:34	that fle didnt change in two years
11:35	*file
11:35	<Nubae> so what's your suggestion, reinstall new?
11:35	I probably enabled the sid debian rep during an upgrade
11:35	only explanation
11:36	ogra: should I reintsall?
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11:38	<sepski> Nubae, cant you just symlink the config file to where it is looking for it ?
11:38	<ogra> install the dhcp3-server package manually would solve that single issue, but hardy is frozen since weeks, i have no idea what else broke through enabling sid, thats simething you should never do !
11:38	its a garantee for subsequent breakage ...
11:38	<Nubae> I'm pretty sure I didn't do it knowingly... but its happened
11:38	<ogra> *guarantee
11:39	<Nubae> anyway... I thought debian and ubuntu were brothers ;-)
11:39	<ogra> right
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11:39	<sepski> Nubae, true, but not identical twins
11:39	<ogra> they wont share the same girl though :)
11:40	<likuidkewl> Ogra - I can't seem to find anymore info on the grfx but I did try another unit(old notebook) and the same thing happened
11:40	<ogra> ubuntu takes sids packages at the beginning of a release cycle and autosyncs them
11:40	then they get modified and stabilized ... but diverge slightly thought that process ...
11:40	<Nubae> well, anyway... I still didnt get an answer... should I reinstlal or not?
11:40	<ogra> so ubuntu is not debian in the end ... only at the eraly stages of merging the archives
11:41	Nubae, thats nothing anyone could answer
11:41	follow your gut feeling
11:41	to fix the dhcp issue you should just make sure the ubuntu package is installed
11:42	<sepski> compare how much work that is vs fixing all the issues manually. you could probably get the list of packages to replace with ubuntu's from the apt log
11:42	or apt-cache policy
11:42	ww is now known as wwx
11:42	<ogra> but sincenobody knows which debian sid packages you now have on your system, nobody will be able to tell you yay or nay
11:42	yeah, /var/log/dpkg.log should help as well
11:43	it stores all package actions (unless you already use the debian dpkg)
11:43	<likuidkewl> Best account of process, LTSP boots to GDM, GDM asks for login, login and pass are input and the auth seems to takes its sweet time but does accept the password, the "x" crosshairs show, then the Ubuntu swirling circle thing shows but then the x server goes right back to the GDM login......
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11:44	<ogra> likuidkewl, s/gdm/ldm/
11:44	ltsp doesnt use gdm
11:44	<sepski> likuidkewl, check the users homedir privs ?
11:44	<ogra> check ~/.xsession-errors
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11:45	<Nubae> I've already got problems with i386 not loading so just going to reinstall
11:45	Its allways guarantueed to work...
11:45	see y'all later
11:45	<ogra> likuidkewl, you didnt install on top of an ubuntu-server insall i hope
11:45	Nubae, you could help iso testing then :)
11:46	<Nubae> ogra: how?
11:46	<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
11:46	<Nubae> download latest build?
11:46	<ogra> i just rewrote the notes
11:46	yeah
11:46	RC came out 1h ago :)
11:46	<Nubae> ok, link?
11:46	<likuidkewl> Ogra - Nope we used a desktop 32bit install
11:47	<Nubae> ogra: i'm running 64 bit, built too?
11:47	<ogra> likuidkewl, ok, so check the users .xsession-errors file if you get to the desktop but get kicked out that sounds like a deskop prob
11:47	(get to the desktop == getting past the password prompt)
11:47	<Nubae> ogra: link to RC
11:48	<ogra> if there is nothing in .xsession-errors also check /var/log/auth.log .. probably something with your sshd is wrong
11:48	Nubae, in the forst paragraph
11:48	*first
11:49	<Nubae> ah sorry, didn't see
11:49	<ogra> shoudl i rephrase it so its easier to grasp ?
11:49	<Nubae> love firefox 3 man... really noticably faster and better
11:50	<ogra> yeah, xulrunner rules
11:50	<Nubae> maybe instead of writing here write the link
11:51	<ogra> and it has an easy javascript ypi to develop your own browser apps
11:51	http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LightBrowser/
11:51	took me a rainy sunday afternoon to write :) ultra trivial
11:51	yeah, i will put the link in
11:51	thanks for the suggestion :)
11:52	* Nubae is still unsure what LightBrowser is
11:53	<ogra> its a minimal xulrunner based browser
11:53	no more functions than you see
11:53	only uses 15-20M of ram (vs 40-60 FF uses)
11:55	<Nubae> wow excellent for a thin client... so just apt-get install lightbrowser?
11:56	my school has asked me where to buy some good thin clients, they keep buying new laptops (which I've finally convinced them is a total waste of money
11:56	<ogra> nope, its not packaged
11:56	i'll see if i make it for intrepid
11:57	hoew do you like the page now ?
11:57	<ltsppbot> "likuidkewl" pasted ".xsession_errors" (27 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/511
11:57	<Nubae> ogra... I'm working with the OLPC people now, will be in Nepal doing the XS server development... it sounds like your browser could be ideal for sugar
11:58	<ogra> likuidkewl, hmm, do you have xgl installed from universe ?
11:58	<Nubae> I've convinced them to move from Fedora too... but have repackage a bunch of stuff
11:58	<ogra> that doesnt work with ltsp
11:58	<likuidkewl> Ogra - let me check
11:58	<Nubae> I've been told repackaging is a bitch
11:59	<ogra> likuidkewl, either remove it or i think there is an opiton to force it to not to start
11:59	<likuidkewl> ogra - I have no idea how that got it
11:59	<dberkholz> ogra: better than webkit-based epiphany?
11:59	<likuidkewl> it = in
11:59	<Nubae> I'm talking a lot cause I'm waiting for my RC to download...
12:00	<ogra> dberkholz, i didnt compare and its featureset is really minimal (homepage, zoom size and bookmarks in a textfile)
12:00	use rsync :)
12:00	saves bandwith
12:00	<Nubae> anyway, XS server development should be moving to debian or ubuntu and we need to repackage at least 6 or 7 files
12:00	<dberkholz> ogra: interesting, i'm surprised xulrunner can be that lightweight
12:01	<ogra> dberkholz, it can .... while offering all the firefox plugins :)
12:01	i,e, lightbrowser works fine with youtube :)
12:01	<Nubae> I would love to convince the to somehow work with edubuntu... there's a lot of talented devs on the XS team
12:02	<ogra> well, raher convince them to use ubuntu :) edubuntu will go away long term ...
12:02	<Nubae> yeah that's what I meant
12:02	<ogra> it will be merged into ubuntu as ubuntu educational edition
12:02	<sepski> Nubae, convince them to use debian. then ubuntu and all other distro that depend on debian including ubuntu can gain from it
12:02	<ogra> the cd change is the forst step towards that
12:02	sepski, ++
12:02	<Nubae> anyway, they are working on a cutting tool that takes the right localised content from wikipedia
12:03	very neat for schools
12:03	yeah, package for debian, then ubuntu can take their packages I guess
12:04	ogra... ltspquickinstall easier to understand now
12:05	<ogra> good, thanks for he helpful hint
12:05	<Nubae> http://blog.olenepal.org/ - I'm going there in a month or 2
12:05	should be real fun
12:06	no ltsp, just mesh networking, but I'm sure it will all merge somehow
12:06	<ogra> it will
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12:06	<ogra> i'm working on the classmate PC impelmentation atm
12:07	intel lans to have mesh capable HW in the future for that
12:07	*plans
12:07	<Nubae> yeah, hopefully as good as the XOs
12:07	<ogra> HW i HW ... asl long as there are drivers ...
12:07	*is
12:08	<Nubae> the XOs have the 2 little antennas, and supposedly go 3 times the distance of any other wireless laptop
12:08	its interesting stuff for sure
12:08	The real issue is in power consumption
12:09	<ogra> how long does an XO last nowadays ?
12:09	the classmate is between 4 and 5 h with hardy
12:12	<dberkholz> pretty typical laptop then, eh
12:12	<Nubae> they are saying 8 hours
12:12	2 W consumption
12:12	<ogra> dberkholz, despite the fact that you have only 256M and a 2Gig SDD
12:12	oh and zero L2 cache in the CPU which is the biggest prob
12:12	<dberkholz> ew
12:13	<Nubae> but that's with sugar, which still sucks, but has potential
12:13	<dberkholz> i've got my thinkpad t61 above 4 hours now, and it's a beast
12:13	yay powertop.
12:13	<ogra> my job was to squeeze a normal edubuntu install into that HW spec ad still have it performant enough to run flash videos
12:13	<warren> ogra: is that really true?
12:13	I thought the CPU was upgraded
12:14	<dberkholz> ogra: how much disk does a stock edubuntu install take up?
12:14	<ogra> warren, nope
12:14	warren, they wait for atom
12:14	<warren> who is "they"?
12:14	<ogra> dberkholz, >= 3.5G
12:14	<Nubae> ogra: anyway, I'd like to mention your browser with your permition to the XO team
12:14	<ogra> warren, the intel dev team for classmate
12:14	Nubae, sure
12:14	<Nubae> looks better than standard gecko browser
12:15	<ogra> it surely needs more coding love
12:15	as i said it was a sunday fternoon hackery for fun to test out the xulrunner opportunities
12:15	*afternoon
12:15	<Nubae> Whilst the OLPC project aimed to redesign all of the software and hardware along educational principles and uses highly customized hardware and software, Intel has argued that the developing world wants to have generic PCs, and is working on a Classmate PC to compete with the XO-1. In December 2005, Intel publicly dismissed the XO as a "gadget".[37] - lol
12:16	<warren> ogra: the Geode LX has "64K Instruction / 64K Data L1 cache and 128K L2 cache"
12:16	<ogra> warren, cassmate == intel product
12:16	<warren> oh
12:17	you're talking about classmate, not XO
12:17	<ogra> they wont use geode ... i couls ask for laughs though
12:17	<warren> I'd like to see an Atom based thin client
12:17	<ogra> i dont have any interest in XO
12:17	<Nubae> what is a watt-hour?
12:17	<warren> but I hear the video card isn't usable with X
12:17	<ogra> i love the stuff that happens around it
12:17	but i surely see the HW as a failure
12:17	<Nubae> well, the XS server should at least be more interesting for you?
12:18	<ogra> intel triggered the right thing here ... with asus offering the best product following them
12:18	<Nubae> since it should do serving for everything, not just XOs
12:18	yeah
12:19	<ogra> so in the end its the laughing third who gains most out of the intel vs XO war :)
12:19	<Nubae> the XO is still a good product though, in as far as it is being used and tested
12:19	<ogra> and customers can buy eeePC :)
12:19	<Nubae> its more expensive though
12:20	the next gen eeePC will be the overall winner yeag
12:20	<ogra> well, i have a next gen classmate here
12:20	i dont think they differ much
12:21	<Nubae> well, if you say it does 5 hours, thats far too much power consumption
12:21	<ogra> i like the classmate case though and the handle it has, there was some ergonomy guy at work :)
12:21	<Nubae> that and only the XOs are doing mesh networking correctly atm
12:21	<ogra> Nubae, the first gen classmate does 4-5h
12:21	<Nubae> ah
12:21	<ogra> i havent tested the second gen wrt power consumption
12:22	Nubae, it does 4-5h while running a full edubuntu desktop as you have on a normal deskop btw ...
12:22	<Nubae> god, RC is downloading slow as hell
12:22	<ogra> use rsync :)
12:23	<Nubae> how?
12:23	dont wanna loose my download now
12:27	<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RsyncCdImage
12:28	take your former iso you used and update that through rsync
12:29	it will only replace changed data inside the iso, not download anything extra
12:29	<cliebow> anyone good with perl cgi..?
12:30	<Nubae> rsync -zhhP https://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/8.04/ .
12:30	ssh: https: Name or service not known
12:30	rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver]
12:31	bah never mind
12:31	I'm an idiot
12:32	rsync -zhhP https://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/8.04/ubuntu-8.04-rc-desktop-amd64.iso .
12:32	ssh: https: Name or service not known
12:32	but now I'm doing it right I'm sure
12:32	oh, replace http with rsync I guess
12:33	bah speedup of 0.4
12:34	wonderfull
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12:38	<Nubae> hey something that has now happened several times out of the blue (and I'm not sure why) is the /tmp file suddenly messing up
12:38	I end up having to delete everyththing in it, reset permissions and restart the serer
12:39	everyone gets a cant write to /tmp dir when trying to login
12:41	<ogra> laga, do you have an install howto for diskless mythbuntu ? i'd link it from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall if you do
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12:42	<ogra> Nubae, might be fallout from your sid mixup
12:42	<laga> ogra: not yet.. i can offer a link to the latex source file, that's quite readable :)
12:42	<ogra> heh
12:42	nah, if you have something, pig me
12:43	*ping as well :P
12:43	<laga> hah
12:43	i'll have something soon-ish
12:43	<Nubae> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
12:43	you can link that at least
12:43	<ogra> i wonder if that would deserve an extra CDRom installs page
12:44	i havent heard back from xubuntu and kubuntu CD tests yet but they could be listed too
12:44	<laga> wrt LTSP?
12:44	<ogra> xubuntu has the ltsp mode since edgy
12:45	<laga> cool
12:45	<ogra> kubuntu added it with hardy
12:45	<laga> i guess it's easy to do with your udeb
12:45	<Nubae> really, how?
12:45	<ogra> (merged from ubuntu)
12:45	<Nubae> oh youmean in the cd distros
12:45	<ogra> indeed, as log as you dont build fat clients that have mediaplayers my udeb works just fne :)
12:45	* laga still needs to work out some quirks in the mythbuntu alt disk, grr
12:46	<laga> ogra: pf
12:46	;)
12:46	<ogra> yeah, i saw that
12:46	whats the issue with your preseeding?
12:46	<Nubae> well, I get a lot of emails about the low fat client stuff
12:46	<laga> ogra: just PEBKAC.
12:47	<ogra> Nubae, then intrepid will be your release, lets get that rolling next release so we can offer it on the CD :)
12:47	<laga> ogra: i do wonder, though, why my udeb will exit with status code 30 immediately.. i guess i need to tweak the debconfig magic
12:47	ogra, Nubae: if there was some LDAP stuff set up automatically, that'e be great. (for low-fat clients)
12:47	i'd love to use that
12:47	<ogra> with intrepid the server team should finally have their net authentication done with server/cliet and himedir side i hope
12:48	<Nubae> I'll set it up, its real easy
12:48	<r3zon8> rhel5 come packaged with ltsp5?
12:48	<Nubae> jsut create a /etc/auth-client-config/profile.d/open_ldap
12:48	and does the job
12:48	<laga> homedir? neat...
12:48	<ogra> r3zon8, there is some work on fedora 8 and 9, no idea if rh will adopt
12:49	<laga> ogra: how would you do clientr-specific config files? get them via tftp?
12:49	<r3zon8> oh :( ive been using k12, but its fc6 based
12:49	im looking for something newer
12:49	<ogra> r3zon8, i mean ltsp5 :)
12:49	<Nubae> I'd like to do a ssh mount of /home as well, but it pings out
12:49	<ogra> r3zon8, wait for warren to be around
12:49	he does the fedora port
12:50	<r3zon8> thanks :)
12:50	<ogra> (and is happy about every help he can get)
12:50	<r3zon8> theres a few patch jobs out there for f8..but they dont work very well
12:51	<Nubae> NOTE: you may want to use a vserver instead of a chroot. vserver provides secure environment to FreeNX into plus the ability to upgrade without disrupting the base system (i.e. shared /proc and /sys can cause problems while upgrading a chroot. Key processes like samba, nfs, ssh etc. can be killed and restarted inside the chroot ). - that line is totally confusing, someone put it int there, think I can just delete it ;-) ?
12:51	<laga> um
12:51	Nubae: sounds like it's totally not related to LTSP
12:51	<ogra> either that or rewrite it in a saner way
12:51	<r3zon8> look like the k12ltsp project dumped fedora for centos..
12:52	<Nubae> well, someone else added it to the page
12:52	and yeah its unrelated totally... and untrue
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12:53	<ogra> wipe it then
12:53	<Nubae> done, if they complain, so be it
12:54	ogra: i'd like to forward the type of emails I'm getting about low fat so you can see, what's your email?
12:55	I'll just forward one email
12:55	<ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com
12:55	feel free to forward as much as you want ... i get about 3-600 mails a day ... ten more wont change a thing :)
12:58	<Nubae> jeez, u must spend half your day reading subject titles
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13:01	<ogra> i'm fast and have good filters :)
13:01	you get used to it over time to spend your first two hours of the day with mail :)
13:02	<laga> no breakfast? :)
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13:03	<ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/technologies/ltsp
13:03	YAY
13:03	* ogra dances
13:04	<laga> nice :)
13:04	<ogra> (i'm fighting with my marketing team since 1.5 years to get LTSP the right reputation on our pages) .... awesome :)
13:04	<laga> makes me wanna use LTSP
13:04	too bad i'm already using it ;)
13:05	<ogra> haha
13:06	<Nubae> I've involved you in XS server now, wether you like it or not ogra ;-)
13:07	<ogra> :)
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13:07	<Nubae> yeah canonical should be making way more fuss about LTSP
13:07	well then, everyone should really
13:08	<laga> only if firefox and OOo are fixed ;)
13:09	<Nubae> whats' that got to do with ltsp?
13:09	<laga> Nubae: i seem to recall lots of drama about firefox and OOo using very big pixmaps which will crash the X server on the clients
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13:10	<Nubae> not with firefox 3
13:11	<laga> yup, i think it's fixed there
13:11	<Nubae> and using OOo is a choice
13:11	there are other options
13:11	<laga> i know. i didn't mean to spread FUD, i'm just saying that it'd annoy me :)
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13:12	<Nubae> well, as a sysadmin u need to be looking at all the processes all the time anyway
13:12	<Al-Khouli> Hi guys, i want to ask about how LTSP uses nbd. In the /opt/ltsp/i386 root directory there are nbd-client files. The question is how the client runs nbd-client before it mounts the /opt/ltsp/i386 ?!
13:12	<Nubae> checking what kids and teachers are doing, etc
13:12	its never been much of an issue for me
13:13	but then my server has 8 gigs of ram
13:13	<laga> Al-Khouli: /opt/ltsp/i386 is turned into a squashfs image
13:13	<Al-Khouli> laga, yes
13:13	<ogra> Al-Khouli, it uses initramfs (fromerly known as initrd)
13:13	<Al-Khouli> ogra, uses initramfs for wut ?
13:13	<laga> Al-Khouli: and then mounted using nbd-client inside the initramfs
13:13	<ogra> in the intramfs there runs the nbd client, creates the nbd device and connects the sqashfs to it ...
13:14	it then creates a tmpfs which it merges with the nbd mount to an unionfs which becomes /
13:14	<Al-Khouli> ogra, does this mean nbd-client runs as a kernel module ?
13:15	<ogra> nbd-client is a userspace spplication
13:15	initramfs enables userspcae apps in the initial boot
13:15	(thats its main purpose)
13:17	<Al-Khouli> ogra, i know that the client initially gets 2 files from the server: vmlinuz and initrd
13:17	right ?
13:17	<Nubae> well, I'm gonna let this download and going home.. I'll run the RC install tomorrow when I get in
13:17	<ogra> Al-Khouli, right
13:17	initrd is actually an initramfs ... a very small /
13:18	he ubuntu and debian initramfs-tools scripts allow us to add applications and scfripts that use these applications to the initramfs
13:18	*scripts
13:19	<Al-Khouli> ogra, so nbd client is inside this initrd file ?
13:19	<ogra> right
13:19	<Nubae> in the docs, the main ip used to be 254, its changed to 1 now
13:19	any reason?
13:20	<Al-Khouli> ogra, if so, what are the nbd-client files in the root directory doing there ?
13:20	<ogra> they are a) the source for copying the need stuff into the initramfs and b) used for nbd swap
13:21	Al-Khouli, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/wtogami%40redhat.com-20080417183113-iiks4hnpvaua56od?file_id=ltspnbd-20070611133425-xs8kk2gotlvbpcyt-2
13:21	this s the script thats executed in the initramfs
13:22	line 78 mounts the squashfs from the server which was created from /opt/ltsp/i386
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13:25	<Nubae> Capacity: 16.5 Watt-hours (NIMH), 22 Watt-hours (LiFeP); - XOs
13:25	but not sure what a Watt hour is
13:26	<laga> my laptop would last one hour with those batteries :)
13:26	<Nubae> anyway, I'm offf..
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13:31	<Al-Khouli> ogra, on line 78 it calls nbd-client which i understand is in initrd, still i don't understand what's the need for nbd-client that resides in the root directory
13:32	<laga> what root directory?
13:32	<Al-Khouli> laga, the one compressed in the squashfs image
13:33	<Gadi> Al-Khouli: the initramfs is built from files in the root directory
13:33	it copies the executable from the root dir in creating the initramfs
13:36	<Al-Khouli> Gadi, ok, let's say i want to get my files from the root dir. , which i have to mount it first, in our case, using nbd. This means i have nbd-client before i access the root dir. which raises my question: if i already have nbd-client why do i need the nbd-client residing in the root dir.
13:37	i feel i am missing a main point here
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13:37	<Gadi> no no
13:37	* laga doesn't remember nbd-client residing in a root directory
13:37	<Gadi> the initramfs gets loaded first
13:38	ubuntu/debian create the initramfs with a tool called "update-initramfs"
13:38	indradg_ is now known as indradg
13:38	<Gadi> that tool will copy the nbd-client binary from the rootfs to create the initramfs
13:38	when your thin client boots, it first loads just the initramfs
13:38	which needs nbd-client to mount the roots
13:38	*rootfs
13:39	* Gadi thinks you are confusing "build-time" from "run-time"
13:39	<Gadi> indeed, the thin client need not have nbd-client in its rootfs
13:39	when it is running
13:39	but, it certainly needs to be built into the initramfs
13:40	<Al-Khouli> Gadi, aha
13:40	<Gadi> in LTSP, so far, the rootfs is both the thin client's runtime OS and the build environment for the initramfs
13:41	if you had the inclination to reduce the size of your rootfs, you could exclude nbd-client from the mksquashfs call without ill effect
13:41	<Al-Khouli> because i have it in my initramfs ? no need for duplicatoin ?
13:42	*duplication
13:42	<Gadi> right
13:42	<Al-Khouli> aha
13:42	when is update-initramfs issued ?
13:42	<Gadi> unless the thin client needs an executable at runtime you can exclude it from the rootfs
13:42	<Al-Khouli> during LTSP installation ?
13:43	<Gadi> at this point in time, we don't really exclude much of anything from the rootfs
13:43	mksquashfs is called by "ltsp-update-image"
13:43	so, every time the image is created
13:43	or rerolled
13:44	update-initramfs is issued upon build or if you update the kernel or something in the rootfs
13:45	<Al-Khouli> aha
13:45	this means if i need to pass a parameter to nbd-client all wut i need is to modify in this file : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/wtogami%40redhat.com-20080417183113-iiks4hnpvaua56od?file_id=ltspnbd-20070611133425-xs8kk2gotlvbpcyt-2
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13:47	<Gadi> right - which should be in $chroot/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts
13:47	then, update the initramfs
13:47	and if you use etherboot, the nbi inmage as well
13:48	*image
13:48	<johnny> i've ignored nbi so far ..
13:49	jammcq has joined #ltsp
13:49	<johnny> Gadilicious !
13:49	<jammcq> boa tardes all
13:49	<johnny> or Gaditastic
13:49	<jammcq> Gadilicious ? I gotta get me some of that
13:50	<Al-Khouli> Gadi, hmm, to update the initramfs i have to issue ltsp-update-kernels, right ?
13:51	<Gadi> I usually do a chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-initramfs -u
13:51	first
13:51	then, if I need to update nbi as well, I rm the nbi image from the chroot's boot dir
13:51	and issue a: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 /usr/lib/ltsp/update-kernels
13:52	and THEN: ltsp-update-kernels
13:52	(that should update the initramfs, then the nbi image, and then copy them to the appropriate place on the server to be served)
13:53	<Al-Khouli> aha
13:54	<Gadi> why do all the video drivers I have to use have to suck!!!
13:54	* Gadi vents
13:55	<Gadi> plain unichrome only supports the following dotclocks....
13:55	<Al-Khouli> Gadi, i understand that initrd is the filesystem used by the kernel initially, where does the initramfs part come in the boot process ? or it's initrd=initramfs in this case ?
13:55	<Gadi> initrd=initramfs
13:56	<Al-Khouli> aha
13:56	good
13:56	i feel more comfortable now :D
13:56	<Gadi> they serve the same function just a different way they are created
13:56	:D
13:56	*just created a different way
13:56	where did Gadi learn English?
13:56	lol
13:56	must have been Star Wars
13:57	<Al-Khouli> lol
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14:06	<ogra> Gadi, tried openchrome instead ?
14:06	tux_440volt has quit IRC
14:07	<ogra> jammcq, up since 1h http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/technologies/ltsp
14:07	jammcq, and did i show you the updated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall ?
14:09	<Gadi> ogra: man page reads the same
14:09	<ogra> binaries are different
14:09	<Gadi> still
14:10	seems to be Unichrome vs Unichrome Pro
14:10	<ogra> there is some overlap
14:10	* Gadi thinks openchrome spends most of its time on hardware accel
14:10	<ogra> if you are lucky you can use either
14:10	<jammcq> ogra: wow, who wrote that?
14:10	<ogra> jammcq, me :) they took it nearly unmodified :)
14:11	<jammcq> very nice
14:11	<ogra> thenks
14:11	* jammcq thinks ogra has a future in marketing
14:11	<ogra> the first time i fell ltsp getting the right attention on the webpage
14:11	*feel
14:11	<jammcq> yes, the attention that it deserves
14:11	<ogra> jammcq, that was just out of frustration of explaining it to marketing ppl since 1.5 years
14:12	<jammcq> "ubuntu terminal services" :)
14:12	<ogra> and getting the wildest results in the end
14:15	<laga> wildest results?
14:15	"LTSP - like a party in your mouth"?
14:15	<ogra> heh
14:15	<jammcq> hahahah
14:16	<ogra> jammcq, did you meet laga already ? he builds the mythbuntu mediacenter diskless client on top of ubuntu ltsp
14:16	probably something for your talk as well
14:17	<jammcq> hmm, dunno if i've met him personally, but i've seen him around #ltsp for a long time
14:17	my talk is over
14:17	<ogra> oh, k
14:17	* ogra didnt know the exact time
14:17	<jammcq> can't add to it now, unless I do a talk.1 revision :)
14:17	<ogra> lol
14:18	<laga> hello jammcq shakes hand
14:18	<jammcq> laga, pleased to make your acquantence
14:18	<laga> jammcq: i believe we talked in the old LBE days..
14:18	<jammcq> ah
14:18	yeah, prolly
14:18	where you from?
14:18	<laga> germany
14:18	<jammcq> ah, been there many times
14:19	<laga> i meant to say we talked on irc :) i was trying to build mythtv in LBE
14:19	<jammcq> ah yes
14:21	<laga> so, four years later, i've finally succeeded in combining mythtv and LTSP. i never thought about it like that ;)
14:21	<jammcq> laga: this new way, in LTSP-5 is MUUUUUCH better for doing what you are doing
14:22	<laga> yup
14:27	<ogra> jammcq, so now that i have the diskless mediacenter i was crying for since ages we need someone to build the callcenter client with asterisk :)
14:28	<jammcq> yeahhhh. that was the most often asked question today
14:28	people wanna do voip
14:28	<ogra> i'll attack the sound stuff in intrepid
14:28	<jammcq> and the local app stuff?
14:28	<ogra> its still only a direct adaption of pulse into the esd setup on the client side
14:29	that urgently needs overhaul
14:29	<johnny> i'm hoping to work on stuff like that soon
14:29	<ogra> cool
14:29	<johnny> since my initial implementation is finally almost complete
14:29	<ogra> well, generally i hope to find a way to get hal on the client proper
14:29	<johnny> yeah.. i'll be experimenting with that
14:29	as soon as feasibly possible
14:29	<ogra> that should solve al configuration problems with hardware we could have
14:31	(hw definition and configuration changes can just be achieved through dropping .fdo files in place to fake hw for forwarding to the session etc)
14:31	that will make life so much easier
14:31	<laga> ogra: i've got a .fdo file to tell hal to ignore network devices. very useful to make sure nothing touches your interfaces
14:32	<ogra> yeah
14:32	<laga> s/interfaces/network interfaces/
14:32	<jammcq> I ran into Warren's boss last night at dinner
14:32	<ogra> ah
14:32	<jammcq> sprinkled a few good words for Warren
14:32	<ogra> did you tell him to extend the contract ? :)
14:32	<jammcq> contract?
14:32	<ogra> warrens :)
14:32	<jammcq> he's got a contract?
14:33	<ogra> he doesnt ?
14:33	<jammcq> dunno
14:33	<ogra> does he work for free ?
14:33	why does he have a boss without having a contract ?
14:33	<jammcq> well, in the US, you generally don't have an employment contract that needs to be extended
14:33	<ogra> ah
14:33	<jammcq> you could have an "Employment Agreement" that specifies the terms of hire
14:34	but they usually don't expire
14:34	or they automatically renew, unless either side decides to terminate
14:35	<johnny> i've also been doing jabber and web stuff again lately..
14:35	finally trying to get a personal home page up..
14:35	after how long...
14:35	lol
14:36	i ran into trouble with getting my initramfs stuff to work. so i put ltsp aside for a bit.. as i was getting over frustrated..
14:37	<cliebow> johnny:writing any cgi?
14:38	* jammcq is writing a ton of cgi
14:39	<cliebow> jammcq:if i post from one page to a second..and want to post that same info to athird..what is best way?
14:39	<johnny> cgi ?
14:39	<cliebow> yep
14:39	<ogra> cookies ?
14:40	<johnny> i don't think people ever say cgi unless they are talking about perl without mod_perl or cgi.pm :)
14:40	* ogra writes all his cgi in python
14:40	<Lumiere> I don't do cgi... but if I did
14:40	<johnny> i use the fastcgi interface of lighttpd with php-cgi
14:40	<Lumiere> I'd use python too
14:40	<jammcq> cliebow: check yer private messages
14:40	<johnny> but i never say i do cgi
14:40	<Lumiere> btw
14:40	hi ogra, jammcq
14:40	<johnny> i say write web applications
14:40	* Lumiere lurks
14:40	<ogra> hey Lumiere
14:41	<Lumiere> johnny: zope3?
14:41	<johnny> no
14:41	<ogra> johnny, not web 2.0 aplications ?
14:41	<johnny> zope was hideous
14:41	overgrown beast
14:41	<ogra> i think zope3 is supposed to solve that
14:41	<johnny> sure.. but did they give up on zopedb ?
14:41	or whatever it is called?
14:41	<ogra> no idea, i didnt follow
14:41	<Lumiere> it still uses zodb
14:42	but it cleaned up the methodology substantially
14:42	<johnny> i'd use turbogears or django on python prolly
14:42	usually i do php5 stuff, but we use python stuff at the store
14:42	* ogra prefers plain .cgi written in python ....
14:42	<johnny> and RoR for the work scheduling app
14:42	now i'm fighting mod_rewrite in apache :(
14:42	<Lumiere> lol
14:43	<ogra> i havent had a page yet that actually ran into probs through it being .cgi
14:43	<Lumiere> mod_rewrite is ugly :)
14:43	<johnny> i like it.. until you try to do too much
14:43	<Lumiere> I write all the back end in python
14:43	and all the front end as regular php4/5
14:43	<johnny> php is a fine and fast language in php5
14:44	<jammcq> btw, rasmus lehrdorf is here at the conf
14:45	* ogra is no php fan
14:45	* jammcq neither
14:47	<ogra> is maddog there ?
14:48	<johnny> i like php.. cuz it looks a bit like java.. without the overbearingness
14:48	<ogra> java ....
14:49	* ogra runs away screaming
14:49	* laga byte-compiles ogra
14:49	<cliebow> heehee
14:49	* ogra hits a tree
14:49	<ogra> ouch
14:49	i just had to package a horrible tomcat/postgres app
14:50	not even fuel gets the stains off my fingers
14:50	<jammcq> try a belt sander
14:50	<Lumiere> lol
14:51	try a some Hydrochloric acid?
14:51	<ogra> mm thats would also solve my keyboard size problem with the classmate PC i guess
14:51	good idea
14:52	* ogra only knew that smoking makes slim feet ...
14:52	<Lumiere> all those ultra-micro pc's are horrible for typing on
14:52	<ogra> slim hands are a good idea too :)
14:52	<Lumiere> I feel like I need a usb keyboard
14:52	every time I use an xo
14:52	<ogra> i got used to the classmate, but switching back and forth is hard
14:53	<cliebow> jammcq:so that hidden field could be a variable as well as hard coded...?
14:54	<Lumiere> cliebow: any web hidden field is a variable
14:54	<jammcq> cliebow: certainly
14:54	<Lumiere> that needs to be checked
14:54	<cliebow> coolio..;-]
14:54	<jammcq> treat it just like any other input field. you need to use q->param('fld_name') to get it
14:55	<cliebow> righto/
14:56	later....
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15:12	<_Eu> hello, I have problems about the $DISPLAY variable, in WS, this variable doesnt exist.
15:14	what is the option that a I need configure in dhcpd.conf to tell to WS?
15:18	can someone help me?
15:18	It isnt in wiki.ltsp.org
15:20	<johnny> you don't
15:20	dhcp.conf has nothing to do with $DISPLAY
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15:21	<_Eu> johnny: but the wiki.ltsp.org say that the DHCP can tell the WS about $DISPLAY
15:21	<johnny> where?
15:22	the ws should know the display from the scripts inside ltsp
15:22	<_Eu> "If it's different, then the dhcp server is handing out a name that's different from what the server THINKS your hostname is. Check your dhcpd.conf for which name is being assigned to the terminal."
15:22	<johnny> that has nothing to diwht DISPLAY
15:22	just the hostname of the workstation
15:22	<_Eu> ok.
15:22	johnny: the USB stick doesnt work.
15:23	probabily is because of that.
15:23	the $DISPLAY is empty on WS.
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15:23	<johnny> sure, but you don't touch it in dhcpd.conf
15:23	that's a registered bug if you're using ubuntu gutsy
15:24	<_Eu> johnny: I am using etch
15:24	<johnny> and you don't have to say my name every time
15:24	in fact.. please don't :)
15:24	<_Eu> johnny: :) sorry
15:24	one more time
15:24	<johnny> well i'm sure a debian user will be able to help you at some point then
15:24	<_Eu> :)
15:24	<johnny> just stick around
15:24	<sutula> _Eu: Do you get a login prompt? Can you log in at a client?
15:25	<_Eu> yep
15:25	<sutula> Then you must have a proper DISPLAY setting
15:25	<_Eu> I can do anything on WS
15:25	http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev#
15:25	in step 10.
15:26	<johnny> oh.. ltsp4.. that's hardly even supported
15:26	<_Eu> echo $DISPLAY on WS
15:26	<johnny> if at all
15:26	* sutula as assuming _Eu means client when he says "WS"
15:26	<_Eu> is WS is a client.
15:26	Workstation
15:26	* sutula knows nothing about ltsp 4.2 If you're not running ltsp5, you probably won't get much help.
15:27	<_Eu> ok.
15:27	* sutula thinks, though, that ltsp5 is in Etch
15:27	<_Eu> I prefer 4.2, It is more stable for me.
15:27	* sutula shrugs
15:29	<_Eu> Do you know someone to help me about the $DISPLAY variable on LTSP 4.2 on this channel?
15:30	Pascal_1 has quit IRC
15:30	* sutula supposes that if they do, they will answer...or send e-mail to the mailing list
15:31	<_Eu> yes... it's true
15:31	thanks a lot
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15:32	<_Eu> sutula: Where is the url from mailling list?
15:33	* sutula doesn't know that offhand, but probably someone else here does
15:33	<_Eu> does someone know the url from maillist list?
15:34	<sutula> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Support
15:35	<_Eu> thanks for all!!!
15:40	And, where is the scripts to configure $DISPLAY?
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17:16	<vagrantc> ogra: i see your latest ltspfs patch includes all my suggestions, despite it looking weird :)
17:17	<ogra> looking weird ?
17:17	why ?
17:17	<vagrantc> you said my case statement with LDM_DIRECTX looked weird :)
17:17	<ogra> ah, yeah
17:18	i thought my patch did
17:18	<vagrantc> ogra: you must have submitted another after i left
17:18	maybe i just didn't see the latest
17:18	<ogra> yeah, including all we discussed
17:19	<vagrantc> i'm debating weather to apply upstream as is, or to refactor the common code first
17:19	<ogra> depends how much time you want to invest into it right now
17:20	in any case it fixes the issue as is
17:20	<vagrantc> yes, and that rocks! :)
17:20	<ogra> :)
17:20	<vagrantc> eagre to get into debian
17:20	<ogra> pull the cdrom fix as well
17:20	<vagrantc> cdrom fix?
17:20	<ogra> (even though that needs improvement for multiple CD roms)
17:21	LP: #218962
17:22	* vagrantc wonders how to find the bug report
17:23	* vagrantc maybe figured it out
17:23	<ogra> heh
17:23	bugs.launchpad.net and put the number into the field, like in debian
17:23	<vagrantc> does launchpad intentionally not make bugs.launchpad.net/NNNNNN work the way the debian bts does?
17:24	but it always requires the ubuntu/+source/ltspfs/+bug/ cruft that i never know ... is this a project of ubuntu ... of ltsp or ltspfs, adding the bug part ...
17:26	gah. i'm just too impatient with launchpad.
17:26	it's my own issue, and someday i'll just have to wrap my brain around it.
17:27	ogra: i don't think cdpinger is started by udev yet ...
17:29	bobby_C has quit IRC
17:29	<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/214914
17:29	thats the short form
17:30	(of a bugurl .... unrelated bug)
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17:32	<ogra> vagrantc, i totally dont care by what its started :) it gets its device name from udev apprently and assembles a wrong mountpoint name
17:32	it should do numbering but thats for an update, for now i'm happy o have the right icons back
17:34	i.e. cdrom0 cdrom1 ....
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18:31	<ogra> heh, warren added a bashism
18:38	<warren> where?
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18:38	<warren> ogra: thanks for pointing out my area, where is it? i'll correct it.
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18:43	<ogra> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-ltsp-devel/2008-April/001368.html
18:44	debian does regular checks, thats quite nice :)
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18:56	<warren> so
18:56	ogra: [ -e /selinux/enforce ] && /sbin/restorecon -R $TFTPDIR > /dev/null 2>&1
18:56	?
19:00	<ogra> yeah
19:00	<warren> going home, will check a bit later
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19:00	<ogra> remove the space "> /dev/null"
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20:07	<warren> ogra: why remove the space?
20:07	ogra: isn't the above valid?
20:07	<ogra> looks better :)
20:07	i dont think its invalid
20:09	it looks more like a redirect and less like a greater sign if you group them ...
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