IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 January 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 11:54 | <mads2> Hello. What`s the recommended server to run Android Studio in 10 or 20 thin clients. I have three labs full of old machine but they do fine for all classes but the Android dev ones.
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| 12:00 | <alkisg> mads2: the same way that you would run with without ltsp
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| 12:00 | How would you run it without ltsp?
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| 12:00 | E.g. in virtualbox?
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| 12:00 | Ah studio, not plain android
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| 12:00 | OK, then normally :)
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| 12:01 | What's the problem, that it run slowly? Are you clients really thin, or are they fat?
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| 12:02 | <highvoltage> (hehe)
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| 12:03 | <mads2> The question is, I can run Android Studio in my machine (I5 5200, 8GB ram) fine. But if I wanna spin a server with a 10 or 20 thin clients, how much more computer power would I need.
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| 12:03 | I would run thin clients, because they can`t run Android Studio satisfactory
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| 12:04 | <alkisg> mads2: easy to test, just run `ssh -X user01@localhost`, and run android 20 times from there
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| 12:04 | If it needs e.g. 500 MB RAM for each instance, then you'd need 20*500 MB RAM for 20 users
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| 12:04 | Add 200 MB for the session (MATE etc) as well
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| 12:04 | So with 16 GB you should be ok, RAM-wise
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| 12:05 | !kvm
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| 12:05 | <ltsp> kvm: Virtual thin client: kvm -m 256 -vga vmware -ctrl-grab -no-shutdown -net nic,model=virtio -net user,tftp=/var/lib/tftpboot,bootfile=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 12:05 | <alkisg> Or run 20 virtual thin clients, and log in from there
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| 12:06 | <mads2> hunn, I thought that since the clients are all running on the server it could save a lot of ram/computing power
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| 12:08 | but I will hack around. We don`t want to upgrade a whole lab for one application (Android Studio is really heavy)
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| 12:08 | <alkisg> Shared ram is saved
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| 12:08 | That's usually ram from libraries
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| 12:08 | While non-shared ram, like browser tabs etc, isn't "saved"
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| 12:09 | Btw, an I5 5200 isn't any super server, it's a normal workstation for android studio :D
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| 12:09 | It'd be way better to have all i3 clients, so that each one of them ran it on its own
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| 12:10 | https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-5200U+%40+2.20GHz => 3500 score
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| 12:10 | https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-8250U+%40+1.60GHz&id=3042 => 7700 score, twice as much (and still laptop)
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| 12:12 | * alkisg was testing a 24-cpu monster these days, with 192 GB RAM - this one could run a lot of thin clients | |
| 12:16 | <mads2> The i5 is my personal computer, I would use some server available for it at the uni. Anyway, I`ll run some tests with the ssh. Thank you very much alkisg!
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| 15:40 | <mwalters> for reference, we have 3 12core 128gb memory servers here
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| 15:40 | (and 1 12core 64gb) ;)
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| 15:41 | ...we ended up running clone via ltsp-localapps just because of the rendering performance =/
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| 15:41 | and now we use fat clients... lol
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| 15:41 | finally got bonding working right at this location... I think this'll really help speed up nbd: https://i.imgur.com/tRZ94NV.png
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> nbd is cached both server and client side, so it shouldn't be much of a bottleneck
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| 15:58 | /home needs ssd if you can afford it
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| 15:59 | Which bonding mode did you use?
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| 18:00 | <fiesh> we used to have thin clients, and our server is a better than what alkisg tested... but fat clients are, alas, the way to go these days
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| 18:00 | a tad better
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| 18:12 | <mads2> My terminals can't run the application even on bare metal. My intention is to run thin clients because its easier to me to get a powerful enough server than to upgrade the whole lab. I only need a fair estimate of this server specs but I will try it by trial and error with what I already got.
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> mads2: the main bottleneck is the network
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| 18:27 | !flash
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| 18:27 | <ltsp> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> It's not just about flash. Imagine 2.5 gbps per *client* for any 30fps application.
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| 18:27 | That's why thin clients probably won't be supported at all in ltsp6
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| 18:28 | I imagine we'll endorse x2go or xrdp or other remote desktop models there
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| 18:38 | <mwalters> alkisg: 802.3ad
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| 18:38 | lacp
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| 18:42 | the biggest thing for me (us) is the intial DE loading, and the first time chrome launches
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| 18:42 | (also if 5 people happen to start their desktops at the exact same time)
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| 19:12 | <mwalters> youtube on chrome at least should be h265 now, right?
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| 19:12 | via html5 video?
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| 19:20 | <alkisg> If you're talking about bandwidth, thin clients always get uncompressed video
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| 19:27 | <mwalters> that's true, you're right
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| 19:32 | <JuJUBee> mwalters, thanks for the info on static ip the other day. I got booted before I could see it and ended up figuring it out.
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| 19:33 | <mwalters> np
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| 19:33 | <JuJUBee> Got the new LTSP server up and running
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| 19:33 | Most everything is fine except netbeans for some reason.
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| 19:34 | <mwalters> netbeans, the IDE?
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| 19:34 | <JuJUBee> When a student launches it and tries to go to the options, nothing happens. Even if they wipe and re-install it.
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| 19:34 | Yes the IDE
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| 19:34 | Im thinking it is a permissions issue somehow tied to ltsp but it was working on the old server.
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| 19:35 | <mwalters> It's been a loooong time since I tried out netbeans, not sure I can help
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| 19:35 | I ended up with the jetbrains IDEs when I was a dev
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| 19:36 | <JuJUBee> The course they are taking requires netbeans. There is a submission plugin they are using for a MOOC.
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| 19:36 | <mwalters> Can you remind me of your set up again? Fat/Thin Clients, chroot/chrootless, etc?
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| 19:37 | <JuJUBee> Fat chrootless 18.04
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| 19:37 | I have /homes for the students instead of /home
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| 19:38 | <mwalters> is the $HOME variable correct when they log in?
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| 19:38 | `echo $HOME` from a terminal
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| 19:38 | <JuJUBee> yes
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| 19:38 | <mwalters> maybe try running netbeans from a terminal and see if it outputs an error
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| 19:39 | it definitely sounds like a file access issue based on the behavior
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| 19:40 | also, remote logging is super rad
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| 19:41 | <JuJUBee> I did run from terminal but don't know what this means https://pastebin.com/uNxVDUdm
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| 19:42 | FYI, the first line I get on my computer (non ltsp) and netbeans runs fine
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| 19:43 | <mwalters> do you have the same JVM installed on your computer and the ltsp server?
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| 19:43 | looks more like a JVM issue, than a file access issue
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| 19:44 | not sure this is root of the issue, though... these are just warnings
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| 19:44 | now that I thinka bout it more
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| 19:44 | <JuJUBee> Yes I do have same version
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| 19:45 | <mwalters> next step is probably take a look at it w/ strace
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| 19:45 | `strace <netbeans binary>`
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| 19:48 | <mwalters> should give you an idea of what files it's trying to access, where they are... and specifically which ones at the time of the issue
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| 19:48 | it's pretty... verbose, though ;)
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| 19:48 | <JuJUBee> OMG the output is more than the buffer can handle
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| 19:48 | <mwalters> hah
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| 19:48 | <JuJUBee> You aint kidding
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| 19:49 | <mwalters> maybe...
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| 19:58 | yeah, I'm not 100% sure, there's a bunch of different ways... the tool this guy built looks promising, you'll have to compile it yourself, though I think: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18844/list-the-files-accessed-by-a-program
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| 19:59 | alternatively, grep the strace output down to what you want
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| 19:59 | probably open\(
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| 20:00 | `strace <binary>|grep ^open\(` might work, but I'm not 100% sure
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| 20:01 | that doesn't seem right
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| 20:01 | not sure :D
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| 20:02 | grepping the output doesn't seem to work at all, not sure why
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| 20:02 | `strace <binary> 2>&1|grep <some string>
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| 20:06 | This seems troublesome
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| 20:06 | I give up ;)
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| 20:10 | <JuJUBee> Thanks anyway
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| 20:14 | <alkisg> JuJUBee: does it run directly on the server?
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| 20:23 | <JuJUBee> alkisg, no
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| 20:33 | So I switched back to java 1.8 jdk and it runs. Strange, I have 1.11 on my laptop and it runs fine, but not on the server.
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| 20:34 | Thanks for trying. I gotta go, snowing now and I should get home before it really comes down.
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> Then it's not an ltsp issue :)
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| 20:42 | Try asking in your distro channel, e.g. #ubuntu
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| 20:42 | <mwalters> rip
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