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04:48 | <alkisg> vagrantc: which arm board would you recommend for ltsp?
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04:48 | The ones that use Mali graphics don't fare well in the open source world, right?
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04:49 | <vagrantc> it really depends
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04:49 | <alkisg> Actually, x86 suggestions would be fine if they're small devices and not desktops...
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04:50 | I see that raspberry's vc4 is trying to make it upstream to the linux kernel....
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04:50 | <vagrantc> basically, the main limiting factor is framebuffer video; all the fancy 3d video stuff is with random ancient kernels and proprietary blobs
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04:51 | maybe they could get basic rpi2 support in the kernel before trying to do the hard stuff
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04:51 | <alkisg> I'm reading that they'll have working kms in linux 4.4....
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04:51 | But pi's aside, is there anything else that works well in all aspects?
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04:51 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've been pretty happy with the wandboard series, but the free video implementation is framebuffer video for X
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04:52 | alkisg: cubox-i are nice, but same problem
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04:52 | <alkisg> Is it good enough to play a fullscreen youtube video on fat clients?
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04:52 | <vagrantc> haven't tried
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04:53 | i did have some issues with tearing when moving a window ...
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04:53 | <alkisg> And have you seen any x86 based small devices, like e.g. the intel compute stick, but with an ethernet instead of wifi?
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04:53 | <vagrantc> i vaguely recall being surprised by some random video playing ... not sure if the quality was passable
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04:53 | haven't really looked
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04:53 | * alkisg googles for wandboard... | |
04:53 | <vagrantc> wandboard.org
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04:56 | <alkisg> Pis do seem that they have a good floss community around them...
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04:56 | <vagrantc> cubox-i and wandboard are basically the same, specs-wise, only the cubox-i comes in a slick little black case
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04:57 | i haven't tried for a while, but the beaglebone black might work as a thin client ...
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04:57 | <alkisg> Nah, scratch thins, they're not suitable for the usual browsing experience that users want these days...
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04:57 | <vagrantc> hardkernel's odroid-c1+ might be comprable to the rpi2
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04:59 | <alkisg> #wandboard: 25 persons, #raspberrypi: 475 persons...
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04:59 | <vagrantc> there are a number of boards with 1-2GB of ram ... more than that is really hard to come by
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04:59 | alkisg: quantity alone isn't the best measure
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04:59 | alkisg: but yes, the wandboard channel tends to be pretty quiet
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04:59 | <alkisg> A good measure for me is if it plays a fullscreen youtube video out of the box, Pi 2 can't do that...
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05:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that said, the wandboard developers did it as a community developed project, open hardware design, etc.
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05:00 | <alkisg> Their forums are down atm... hmm...
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05:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: video support on arm is just not great yet ... there's been good progress on a few, but not ready *yet*
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05:03 | <alkisg> So basically for teachers here that are asking "which cheap board to buy in order to use it as a fat client", I'd have to look for something x86 based with ethernet...
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05:06 | * vagrantc nods | |
05:07 | <vagrantc> they're not cheap, but i've recently worked with gigabyte brix boxes
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05:07 | pretty nice
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05:07 | * vagrantc has been looking for viable arm-based thin/fat clients for so long | |
05:08 | <alkisg> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+Z3735F+%40+1.33GHz ==> 903, the score of intel compute stick
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05:08 | The version with the 1 gb ram costs less than $100... maybe with a usb ethernet adapter...
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05:09 | ah, the brix boxes are full blown clients, yeah sure those would do fine for people that can afford them
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05:12 | <vagrantc> the compute sticks could run from local media and use wireless...
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05:17 | <alkisg> I'm not sure how good the wifi connection would be if e.g. 12 compute sticks were using sshfs over wifi, even with local squashfs
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05:18 | <vagrantc> ah, keep forgetting aout sshfs ...
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05:18 | * vagrantc has just been using tmpfs homedirs | |
05:18 | <vagrantc> which works great ... if that meets your need :)
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05:21 | <alkisg> Nah, students need a home dir to save things. An alternative with only the document and desktop symlinked to sshfs would be good though
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05:21 | I.e. to have most of the traffic in tmpfs, and only when they go to file>save from some application, to reach the server
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05:21 | <vagrantc> alkisg: apparently the vivante chips in the wandboard are getting improved support with etna_viv
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05:22 | that would be interesting...
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05:22 | most of the students are using google docs... so no local storage needed
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05:24 | <alkisg> Where do they e.g. draw things like tuxpaint?
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05:25 | Also it's prohibited to create google mails for students under 13
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05:27 | <vagrantc> right, not valid for all use-cases
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05:30 | anyways, good luck
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05:31 | finding a client ...
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05:31 | * vagrantc is interested how it goes | |
05:31 | * vagrantc waves | |
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11:55 | <fenixfunk5> hi all. i'm trying to add an option to my ltsp-client's grub line. so i edited /etc/default/grub and ran update-grub but it failed, telling : "error: cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?).". I understand that this is normal since i'm in the ltsp chroot and the actual device update-grub is asking for would be the ltsp image file, which is not accessible from the chroot. my questino is what's the regular way to update-grub on ltsp client chroot?
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11:58 | (tryin to mount --bind /dev /opt/ltsp/ .... /dev right now)
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11:58 | <muppis> Don't.
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11:59 | <fenixfunk5> yeah i can see why ^^ didn't reboot though, no worries
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11:59 | <Hyperbyt1> fenixfunk5, why would you do this? LTSP clients boot using PXE, not grub.
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12:00 | If you want to change kernel options, you do this in pxelinux config on the server.
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12:00 | <muppis> You do not need update-grub in chroot. Instead look after files under /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/
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12:01 | <fenixfunk5> i'm trying to disable a kernel module at boot time, indeed if it's pxe i did not look in the right direction :p
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12:02 | <Hyperbyt1> fenixfunk5, you could even disable it via lts.conf
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12:02 | <fenixfunk5> through lts.conf would be nice i reckon
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12:03 | Hyperbyt1 is now known as Hyperbyte | |
12:03 | <fenixfunk5> since i need to disable this only for some client
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12:03 | <Hyperbyte> What exactly are you blacklisting?
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12:03 | <fenixfunk5> longhaul kernel module, causing some VIA cpu based clients not to boot
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12:04 | well "all" via cpus actually :p
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12:04 | <Hyperbyte> Right, this you can't do via lts.conf probably.
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12:05 | Some things, like kernel modules for video and other non-essential things can be blacklisted via lts.conf because lts.conf directives are handled pretty early in the boot sequence.
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12:08 | You can however create specific PXE configs based on mac address
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12:12 | <fenixfunk5> i don't see in the lts.conf manpages how to blacklist modules, only how to load them :/
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12:17 | <Hyperbyte> Nah, you could hack some script together.
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12:17 | but I assume the clients' kernels aren't even loading, so that's not going to work.
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12:27 | <fenixfunk5> yup that's it, kernel won't even load
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12:28 | im trying to fix pxe now
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12:44 | well thanks a lot for your help, i did what i wanted with PXE but this didn't resolve my problem. i think this is 100% VIA-related so don't bother ;)
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12:49 | <alkisg> fenixfunk5: are you the same one that was asking about this ~2 weeks ago?
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13:06 | If not, he found out that it was just a graphics driver problem
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13:50 | <fenixfunk5> alkisg, no this isn't me, do you reckon he got the same error "[ 14.632335] longhaul: Option "Enable" not set. Aborting." at client boot time? the kernel won't even load that's why i thought my issue is cpu-related
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13:50 | <alkisg> fenixfunk5: yes, he got the same error
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13:50 | fenixfunk5: are you sure that the kernel isn't loading?
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13:51 | I think that it's the initramfs that shows the error, after the kernel is loaded
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13:51 | Try removing quiet splash from pxelinux.cfg/default, to see more messages
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13:51 | And then take a screenshot with e.g. your mobile phone and upload it for us to see
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13:54 | <fenixfunk5> ah right, there's initramfs timing prefix in the error... i'll try this in a bit, just need to setup things a bit differently : now that everything went back in production here, i cant be testing around ;)
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14:00 | <alkisg> fenixfunk5: do you have epoptes-client installed in the chroot?
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14:02 | fenixfunk5: some things to try are:
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14:02 | SCREEN_02=shell in lts.conf
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14:04 | nomodeset in pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address
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14:04 | XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf
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14:04 | !noaccel
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14:04 | <ltsp> noaccel: Some graphics cards, e.g. SiS [1039:6325] on 14.04, require this setting in lts.conf: X_OPTION_01="\"NoAccel\""
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14:04 | <alkisg> And finally that ^ one
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15:40 | * bennabiy waves. | |
15:40 | <bennabiy> Hi Vagrantc
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15:41 | Got time for a quick debian question?
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15:41 | <vagrantc> easier to answer a question aksed :)
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15:42 | <bennabiy> I didn't want to bother you with a non LTSP question if you did not have time :)
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15:42 | <vagrantc> ah, i see.
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15:42 | <vagrantc> still easier to just ask :)
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15:43 | <bennabiy> I just have a couple wheezy servers which I would like to move to Jessie, but hope to not have to do a fresh install. Is the process of doing a dist-upgrade fairly stable?
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15:43 | Some are virtual, some bare metal
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15:44 | <vagrantc> really depends on what's on them
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15:44 | but overall, i've found upgrades to be reasonably straightforward
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15:44 | <bennabiy> Basic email server, one is a webserver for a java app
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15:44 | <vagrantc> that said, i've been working with debian systems for ~15 years now ... so maybe i'm blind :)
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15:44 | <bennabiy> that is why I wanted to ask you :)
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15:45 | <bennabiy> what about squeeze to jessie?
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15:47 | <vagrantc> haven't done any to say
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15:47 | <bennabiy> I have a mail server which is on a bare metal i386 which I want to take to Jessie 64bit in a virtual machine
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15:47 | ok
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15:47 | <vagrantc> switching from i386 to amd64 basically requires reinstalling
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15:47 | <bennabiy> yes.
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15:48 | <vagrantc> it's theoretically possible to live migrate, but it may involve some very *interesting* moments.
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15:48 | <bennabiy> I was not sure if migrating configs would be easier if I brought the squeeze to wheezy to jessie, then brought them over to the 64 bit install
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15:49 | I have a new install already done, but I guess I could export which packages I have installed, and install the 64 bit versions and then copy over the config files?
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15:49 | <vagrantc> admittedly, i still haven't upgraded my own mail server ... keep telling myself i want to do it right and get everything into configuration management
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15:49 | <bennabiy> yes
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15:50 | I would like to use puppet or some such to manage my servers, but have yet the time to get it all set up beyond a little poke at it
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15:51 | * vagrantc has had good experiences with ansible | |
15:51 | <bennabiy> One difficulty is that the i386 box is about 1000 miles away from me. So in the case of it needing to be rebooted or something happening, it is not a pleasant thought
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15:51 | <alkisg> From how many servers and up are those useful?
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15:51 | * vagrantc nods | |
15:51 | <bennabiy> I have not worked with ansible.
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15:51 | <alkisg> I tried clusterssh to manage my classroom before joining ltsp, it was fine for 12 clients...
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15:51 | <vagrantc> alkisg: configuration management?
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15:52 | * vagrantc finds it useful even for a single server | |
15:52 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I mean, if you only have to configure 2 servers, would you use ansible?
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15:52 | <vagrantc> ah, how well does it scale
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15:52 | <alkisg> Ah, ok
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15:52 | <vagrantc> i guess ansible supposedly doesn't do well for hundreds or thousands of machines
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15:52 | <bennabiy> puppet scales from itself to .... (the enterprise is free for up to 10 nodes)
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15:52 | <alkisg> No, not about scaling, about when is it needed
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15:52 | I didn't imagine that people would use it even for a single server
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15:53 | <vagrantc> alkisg: basically, once i have the ansible configuration for a server, it could catch fire and i could rebuild it in only as long as it takes to install an OS and run ansible
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15:54 | <alkisg> Sure, but it does take a lot of time to store the configuration in the way that ansible needs it, right?
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15:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: which gives me a lot of confidence...
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15:54 | <alkisg> E.g. if I modify things at /etc and just use git for it, that doesn't take time,
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15:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: not much more than actually doing it by hand
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15:54 | <bennabiy> so it is worth setting up a recipe (is that what it is called?) for the initial install of a server, and then you could modify that for future servers if they need something different?
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15:54 | <alkisg> but if I have to convert it to "ensure that this file has this string there", wouldn't it take time?
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15:54 | vagrantc: if that is true, then it's very nice
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15:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i find it is time well spent... YMMV
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15:55 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: what did you use to learn the system?
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15:55 | where would the best place to start be?
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15:55 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: a small school that needed a network :)
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15:55 | <bennabiy> heh
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15:56 | I mean to learn ansible. What resource did you use?
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15:57 | <vagrantc> apt-get install ansible-doc
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15:58 | main thing with ansible is you can manage anything running linux+openssh-server+python
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15:58 | <vagrantc> there's no client-side configuration other than that
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15:58 | <alkisg> No ansible-client needed?
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15:58 | <vagrantc> yup
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15:59 | <alkisg> Cool, we were talking with Phantomas about the possibility to have a non-existing configd-client :)
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15:59 | <bennabiy> So you would do a base install and then install ansible, and then run the playbook?
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16:00 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: you run ansible from a remote machine, just need python and openssh-server on the managed machine
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16:00 | <bennabiy> ah!
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16:00 | that is wonderful
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16:00 | <vagrantc> that's pretty much the winning point for me
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16:00 | <bennabiy> I am watching the ansible video right now
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16:01 | yes I can see why
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16:01 | <vagrantc> very minimal bootstrapping client-side
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16:05 | <bennabiy> seems very similar to puppet
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16:20 | <bennabiy> vagrant: do you use facter or hiera with it?
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16:31 | <vagrantc> haven't yet
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16:32 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Well, we don't have to worry about when to release a 1.0 version of lightdm-webkit-greeter anymore.
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16:32 | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/lightdm/2015-November/000887.html
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16:32 | I touched it last, so it's mine now :D
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16:33 | <vagrantc> hah
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16:33 | <bennabiy> great!
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16:33 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: did you get a chance to test the packages i built?
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16:43 | <bennabiy> Thank you vagrantc for pointing me towards ansible. I think this is just what I was hoping for to help me maintain both my LTSP labs, as well as my other servers.
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16:48 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Not yet. I will this week.
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16:48 | Any chance you could (easily) build it for i386?
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16:51 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: sure
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