IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 28 February 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:23 | <rjune> warren, you're not missing much
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| 02:25 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 02:34 | <rjune> hey dere scott
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| 02:34 | <sbalneav> Hello rjune
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| 03:13 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 04:18 | <alkisg> !kvm
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| 04:18 | <ltsp> kvm: To boot a fake thin client with kvm: kvm -ctrl-grab -net nic -net user,tftp=/var/lib/tftpboot,bootfile=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 04:46 | <vnc786> i have fat clients running on 4gb ram and amd dual core h/w but fat clients performance is little slow. fat client images size is 1.1gb "top" "iptrapf" output didnt help much any guidance what others step should i take.?
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> vnc786: install ubuntu locally on the clients (e.g. on an external usb disk) and test the performance there
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| 05:21 | If it's the same, report your issues at #ubuntu
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| 05:22 | If it's different, then it's ltsp related, so come again here and tell us what exactly was different
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| 05:24 | !arcfour
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| 05:24 | <ltsp> arcfour: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC4 is an SSH cipher which is more than 2 times faster than the default aes128-ctr. To enable it, set LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o Ciphers=arcfour128".
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| 05:32 | <vnc786> just to share what i did yesterday: i installed xfce4 in chroot --> on login i select xfce4 session --> after login i got everything but the only thing missing was ICONS. ICONS means like a libreoffice document was just showing name not icon all folder and files icon was not show it was just showing underlying text..but not the icon ....
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| 05:37 | <alkisg> That's a different issue than the performance issue, right?
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| 05:53 | <vnc786> yes right but i thought i should try other(xfce) minimal DE which will make performance better but since it didnt worked so performance issue remains the same ..
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| 06:29 | <alkisg> gnome-fallback runs OK here, and also the performance is better than local installations
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| 06:41 | <cyberorg> alkisg, tried epoptes in opensuse-arm on my android phone, it works :)
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| 06:42 | <alkisg> Wow! Very nice, thanks cyberorg :)
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| 06:44 | <cyberorg> great work you've done there to make it work on arm same as on x86
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| 06:45 | * alkisg puts "check opensuse-arm" in his TODO list... :) | |
| 06:46 | <cyberorg> alkisg, it is easier than you think http://lizards.opensuse.org/2013/02/20/opensuse-on-phonestablets/
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| 06:46 | just a few minute to get it going if you have root and busybox on your arm tab/phone
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| 06:47 | install socat and epoptes packages from here inside the image from here http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/cyberorg:/armtest/openSUSE_12.2_ARM_standard/
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| 06:49 | add something like "10.0.0.254 server" to /etc/hosts(change the ip of the server of course, epoptes-client -c
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> cyberorg: how does that work, exactly? one runs opensuse.sh inside a chroot, and that's then running some X emulator inside the android OS?
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| 06:53 | s/emulator/server
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| 06:53 | <cyberorg> sh opensuse.sh start in terminal app as root in android device, puts you in opensuse chroot and starts vncserver to which you can connect from your device using android vnc or from desktop vncviewer
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> Ah, so X is running inside a VNC server, cool
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| 06:54 | <cyberorg> wrong channel to discuss that :) there's #opensuse-arm
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| 06:55 | <Enslaver> ooo i made the news =)
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| 06:55 | nj warren
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| 06:56 | read your note, i am looking into the switch_root issue, the link you have in the email doesnt work tho
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| 07:46 | <warren> Enslaver: whoa. i deleted that file today.
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| 07:46 | Enslaver: I realized the switch_root issue is a non-issue
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| 07:46 | Enslaver: it doesn't cross a filesystem mount barrier
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| 07:46 | Enslaver: when it deletes stuff
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| 07:46 | <Enslaver> just noticed that was posted on the 5th
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| 07:47 | i dont get on FB much
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| 07:47 | hurts my eyes
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| 08:02 | <alkisg> knipwim, Enslaver, cyberorg: does this work for you on your distros? arcfour128 is more than 2 times faster than the default aes128-ctr, so it'd be nice to default to it, by setting it in the default LDM_SSHOPTIONS:
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| 08:02 | ssh -o Ciphers=arcfour128 localhost
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| 08:03 | <Enslaver> yeah we support arcfour
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| 08:03 | <cyberorg> alkisg, yes
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| 08:03 | <alkisg> So you wouldn't mind if we added code like this, in init-ltsp.d/50_ldm-sshoptions:
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| 08:03 | if [ -z "$LDM_SSHOPTIONS" ]; then
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| 08:03 | set_lts_var LDM_SSHOPTIONS "-o Ciphers=arcfour128"
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| 08:03 | fi
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| 08:03 | <Enslaver> i've heard of X forwarding issues with it though
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| 08:03 | but that was years back
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| 08:03 | <alkisg> Ah, let me try with a thin client then, without LDM_DIRECTX=True...
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| 08:04 | <cyberorg> alkisg, claims like x times faster are dependent on many things so don't go by that
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| 08:04 | <Enslaver> arcfour is fast
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I did a benchmark here and it showed 3 times faster, so I'm saying 2 because I'm conservative
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| 08:05 | <cyberorg> ok :)
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| 08:06 | <Enslaver> Still though, sticking a fat lady in skinny jeans is still a fat lady
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> Sure it'll never match the NFS speed and low CPU utilization
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| 08:07 | Or the "none" Cipher speed
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| 08:07 | <Enslaver> how does NX get the speeds?
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| 08:07 | <Hyperbyte> Hi alkisg, cyberorg, Enslaver :)
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| 08:07 | <Enslaver> Howdy Jan
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> NX is very slower than X on LANs
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| 08:07 | It's good for low bandwidth links because it's minimizing roundtrips
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| 08:07 | Morning Hyperbyte
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| 08:08 | <Enslaver> rly? on WAN's its night and day
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> The effect of NX on LANs is similar to that of LDM_DIRECTX=False
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| 08:08 | <knipwim> alkisg: do i need arcfour in the client/server kernel?
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> All traffic goes through compression, encryption etc
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| 08:09 | knipwim: not in the kernel, but your ssh should have support for it
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| 08:09 | If the command above works, you should be ok...
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| 08:09 | <vmlintu> With encryption enabled connections using nxagent to suppress roundtrips can actually speed up things
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| 08:10 | I did experiment with it years ago: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=122051410006258
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| 08:10 | <alkisg> NX vs LDM_DIRECTX=False? /me doesn't really care about those for LANs, none of them are suitable for multimedia apps
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| 08:11 | LDM_DIRECTX=True is unfortunately necessary here in our education environments...
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| 08:11 | <vmlintu> alkisg: this was with ipsec between thinclient <-> server
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| 08:11 | <knipwim> alkisg: it's working here, so it's probably a default option for gentoo
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> knipwim: cool, I'll file a bug report against that in launchpad/ltsp
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| 08:11 | And if noone objects, I'll commit it in some future version
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| 08:13 | <vmlintu> I should actually try using nxagent again to see how the roundtrip suppression affects current systems.
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| 08:16 | <warren> Enslaver: measure not just speed but also latency
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| 08:16 | vmlintu: last time I tried NX for LTSP, it improved bandwidth a lot, but latency was also made worse
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| 08:17 | <vmlintu> warren: did you try all of nx or just nxagent?
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| 08:17 | <Enslaver> i use nx now with ltsp
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| 08:17 | kinda gives ltsp a more VDI feel
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| 08:17 | <vmlintu> warren: I didn't use nxclient at all, just nxagent on both ends to reduce the number of roundtrips. It didn't reduce the bandwidth at all, but reduced latency a lot
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| 08:17 | <warren> vmlintu: nxagentt
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| 08:17 | <Enslaver> they have a java client
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| 08:19 | <alkisg> (10:09:30 πμ) vmlintu: With encryption enabled connections using nxagent to suppress roundtrips can actually speed up things ==> do try with LDM_DIRECTX=True and without ipsec, that does sound very interesting
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| 08:20 | <vmlintu> alkisg: when I did my testing last time on that, LTSP didn't have LDM nor LDM_DIRECTX, so it was using XDMCP
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| 08:20 | So it was similar to LDM_DIRECTX, but the encryption was done using ipsec
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> My "real world" test is viewing a divx full screen with a celeron @500 mhz
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| 08:21 | If that works without dropped frames, it's OK for me
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| 08:31 | (actually, with a classroom of such clients simultaneously, 12 of them)
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| 09:00 | <Hyperbyte> mhmmm
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| 14:48 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> knipwim: about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1008053, you've put "ltsp-trunk" in the Affects: list... So far we were using LTSP to track upstream bugs, any reason for the change?
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| 17:15 | (I was marking fix-released the upstream bugs, now with the 5.4.5 release...)
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| 17:16 | Also, knipwim, Enslaver, I tried the current trunk in production and it works fine, nice work with the merging
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| 17:31 | <knipwim> alkisg: ah sorry, i experimented a bit with add bugs to series
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| 17:31 | i'll undo it, and close
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| 17:34 | alkisg: and the merge isn't complete yet
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| 17:35 | but we better discuss the common files in the hackathon week
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| 17:35 | or when we're all here
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| 17:35 | more devs at least
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| 17:41 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 17:41 | <ogra_> jammcq, so with the recent ubuntu changes (no more UDS, rolling releases) i'll be pretty much capable of coming to BTS now :)
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| 17:42 | <alkisg> No more UDS?!
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| 17:42 | <alkisg> Rolling releases?!
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| 17:42 | <ogra_> only virtual
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| 17:42 | at least for the next two UDSes
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| 17:42 | <alkisg> Starting from which release?
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| 17:42 | <ogra_> now
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| 17:42 | first vUDS is next week
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| 17:43 | <alkisg> Ah no sorry I meant the rolling releases
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| 17:43 | Which release will be the first "rolling" one?
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| 17:43 | <ogra_> well, pretty much right after UDS (or now, as you like)
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| 17:43 | <alkisg> So 13.04 will be a rolling one, having for example libreoffice updates for all of its 18 month cycle?
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| 17:44 | <jammcq> ogra_: fantastic!!!
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| 17:44 | <ogra_> alkisg, 13.04 wont happen
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| 17:45 | its rolling between LTSes
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| 17:45 | <alkisg> ...so we'll see new libreoffice versions in precise?
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| 17:45 | Or that will start from 14.04 onwards?
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| 17:45 | * jammcq has a meeting to attend. I'll be back a bit later | |
| 17:46 | <ogra_> alkisg, i doubt new libO will be SRUed to 12.04 ... so i guess either use the rolling one of wait for 14.04
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| 17:46 | or use a PPA for 12.04
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| 17:46 | <alkisg> 12.10 isn't a rolling one either, right?
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| 17:46 | <ogra_> right
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| 17:47 | 12.10 is released
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| 17:47 | <alkisg> So, 13.04 won't be published, and anyone that wants a new ubuntu version now will be able to download a "rolling" CD updated frequently?
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| 17:47 | <ogra_> they discuss monthly snapshot images
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| 17:47 | <alkisg> And all that rolling release will be named raring?
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| 17:47 | <ogra_> (watch the ubuntu-devel ML)
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| 17:48 | well, since raring is the current dev release and there wont be a release until 14.04 ...
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| 17:48 | 14.04 will be raring
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| 17:48 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 17:49 | <ogra_> nice to see someone who finds that cool :)
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| 17:49 | * alkisg thinks the 6 months releases were too much of a burden and is glad with that new scheme | |
| 17:49 | <ogra_> we get a lot of pushback atm
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| 17:49 | from i.e. kubuntu
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| 17:50 | <alkisg> ...I didn't think kubuntu had enough manpower to prefer 6 month releases...
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| 17:50 | * alkisg reads the ubuntu-devel thread for this... | |
| 17:50 | <ogra_> well, they talked their upstream into a 6 month schedule
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| 17:51 | to now not use it ....
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> this new ubuntu plan sounds supiciously like another project i know of...
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| 18:01 | <alkisg> Which one?
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| 18:01 | vagrantc: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2462 for Wheezy
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| 18:02 | * vagrantc made a vague allusion to Debian, knowing that it wasn't precisely true | |
| 18:02 | <ogra_> heh
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| 18:02 | yeah, we didnt switch to the "when its ready" model
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| 18:03 | but every upload is now autotested before the debs get published, every iso too so the infrastructure to do that is largely there and is saves massively on resources
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| 18:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that looks promising!
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| 18:04 | alkisg: could you submit a bug report?
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| 18:05 | alkisg: i'll be gone most of the weekend, so it'd be good to get it on the radar.
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| 18:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc: OK - although I'm a bit pressured time-wise because I'm leaving tomorrow for yet another ltsp workshop, so it'll be a small one :D
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| 18:06 | <vagrantc> alkisg: just getting it in the system, linking to the relevent commit and ideally launchpad bug would be good.
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> 'k
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| 18:06 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and priority grave, since it involves data loss.
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| 18:06 | then maybe someone will fix it while i'm on vacation :)
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 18:15 | <alkisg> vagrantc: is it "Package: ltsp", i.e. the source package, or "Package: ltsp-client-core"?
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| 18:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i think ltsp-client-core, since it's actually shipped in that package.
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| 18:16 | <alkisg> OK
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| 18:25 | <ltspuser_58> hey, I'm new to LTSP. I'm having issues with getting it to boot. I'm using Ubuntu 12.04 and my dhcp server is windows server 2008r2. I have option 17 set to /opt/lstp/i386/boot option 66 set to my server and option 67 set to pxelinux.0
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Put it to /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 instead
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| 18:26 | Also, option 17 should be /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 18:26 | And, next-server should point to the ltsp server
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| 18:29 | Also check https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP and fix whatever is not written correctly there :)
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> vagrantc: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=701916
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: thanks!
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| 18:32 | <ltspuser_58> thanks for the help. I've tried that site. My settings match however I'm still getting file not found
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> !ipxe | echo ltspuser_58:
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| 18:32 | <ltsp> ltspuser_58: ipxe: iPXE is the successor to the etherboot/gPXE project, and can be used to netboot clients that don't have a NIC ROM with a PXE stack. To add it to grub, see !grub-ipxe. To add it to the Windows boot loader, see !win32-loader. To download floppy, CD or USB images, visit http://ipxe.org or install the ipxe package.
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> With ipxe you can press ctrl+b, then type config, and see what settings your client gets
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| 18:36 | stgraber: you might want to SRU https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093144, it involves data loss...
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> Enslaver: nice to see the Redhat dirs in ltsp-trunk!
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> vagrantc: when are you planning on updating ltsp-debian-packaging? after wheezy is released?
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| 18:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, or i'll start a branch in experimental
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| 18:40 | <ltspuser_58> alkish: it's saying it's looking for ltsp/arch/pxelinux.0 when it should be ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 The dhcp server has the correct setting
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> ty - just wondering, I already pushed a copy of ltsp-debian-packaging in launchpad as its imports are no longer working..
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| 18:41 | ltspuser_58: ok, try the ipxe disk I suggested above
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| 18:41 | <vagrantc> it's probably just a change of URL or something...
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| 18:42 | <ltspuser_58> alkisg: I am using the ipxe disk.
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> ltspuser_58: you can use `config` to change the settings to the correct ones, and then type `boot` to see if the client loads
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| 18:46 | <ltspuser_58> boot returns no image selected
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| 19:17 | <Enslaver> vagrant: Yes i'm quite ecstatic about it, lets hope it gets the response i hope for.
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| 19:52 | <pmatulis> vagrantc: hello. asking you 'cause i see in the changelogs that you are involved in seabios
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| 19:54 | vagrantc: so i'm using kvm and discovered that in older version of seabios (0.5.1) i can boot from 'bus=scsi' but not in a more recent version (0.6.2). normal? i don't see anything in the changelogs to that affect however
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> pmatulis: seems plausibly fixed upstream...
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| 20:07 | <pmatulis> vagrantc: yeah, i see it now
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| 20:07 | 0.7.1
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| 20:07 | er 1.7.1
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| 20:07 | * vagrantc isn't very involved with seabios | |
| 20:08 | <pmatulis> ah ok
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> pmatulis: but i do recall a bug about that reported on qemu. might be best to find a more appropriate channel, though
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| 20:09 | pmatulis: there's #debian-qemu on irc.oftc.net
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| 20:09 | probably a qemu channel somewhere out there...
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| 20:10 | <pmatulis> vagrantc: yeah, i saw your name in the changelogs and i remembered you when i used to hang out in this channel
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