IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 16 January 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 11:14 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, what do you think:
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| 11:14 | http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?d=2013-01-15
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| 11:15 | <alkisg> Wowwwww!!!
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| 11:15 | Scrollable header at last!!! :D
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| 11:15 | Hyperbyte: could you gray-out the "connected/disconnected" messages?
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| 11:16 | I like the per-line coloring, but the spacing is a bit too much
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| 11:17 | <effenberg> i hate it when google brings me the question before the solution
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| 11:18 | <Hyperbyte> effenberg, you cannot have solutions without questions. Even Google knows that.
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| 11:19 | alkisg, eventually those become green/red again... not sure yet how. Will figure it out sooner or later. ;-)
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: when do you plan to put the greek schools in the map?
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| 11:20 | <Hyperbyte> It's now directly including the main www.ltsp.org header/footer, so it also takes the Foundation framework from there. If I start hacking there, it takes too much time.
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| 11:20 | alkisg, soon!
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| 11:20 | This was an added bonus of the research knipwim and I have been doing into using the MeetBot plugin for our meetings
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| 11:20 | ;-)
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| 11:20 | One task at a time. ;-)
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| 11:21 | Before when did you absolutely need it?
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| 11:21 | Because you did give me a deadline I think... or tried to, anyway. ;-)
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| 11:21 | What was it?
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| 11:21 | <alkisg> Next week :)
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| 11:21 | Jan 23th
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| 11:21 | <Hyperbyte> Oh that I can make.
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| 11:29 | <meamy> hi team. I was apple to get my Fatclient boot the chroot over NFS and not over NBD, but now I have the problem that he dont finds the Control Server anymore so i can not login as user the config file in etc/ltsp/getltscfg-cluster.conf points to the correct server. Are there any other config file I need to edit? I am a bit confused because if switch back to boot over NBD erverythink work just fine
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| 11:30 | <Hyperbyte> meamy, are you still convinced that this trouble is all worth it, just so you don't have to rebuild your client image? ;-)
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| 11:32 | <meamy> hyperbyte, yes because i need to do a lot of testings and to rebuild the image ervery time i need to reboot will slow down the hole process dramatical
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| 11:33 | <Hyperbyte> meamy, do you -have- to reboot the clients for what you're doing?
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| 11:33 | Because you can also make run-time changes to the clients, which are discarded after reboot. That's how I usually test updates on my thin clients.
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| 11:36 | <meamy> Hyperbye, yes (driver checking, hardware changes, different desktop environments) it is not about updates more about testing different setups and compare them
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| 11:36 | <alkisg> !nbd-client
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| 11:36 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 11:40 | <meamy> for these tasks i need a testing environment where changes in the system an persistent, and since the image the nbd clients mount is RO i guess the only way is to do this over NFS
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| 11:44 | <otwieracz> Hm.
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| 11:44 | Anyone is using NBD?
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| 11:59 | <Hyperbyte> otwieracz, yes, I'm sure anyone is.
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| 11:59 | :)
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| 12:06 | <otwieracz> You have any ideas how can I add something into genkernel?
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| 12:07 | Beucase by default my network card is not supported.
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| 12:07 | <Hyperbyte> I have no idea what genkernel is. What distribution are you running?
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| 12:07 | <otwieracz> Gentoo.
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| 12:08 | <Hyperbyte> No experience with Gentoo.
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| 12:08 | Also, how is this question related to NBD?
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| 12:08 | <otwieracz> It isn't.
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| 12:08 | <Hyperbyte> Oooookay.......
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| 12:08 | :)
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| 12:46 | <knipwim> otwieracz: the NBD for Gentoo is taken care of by dracut, at least generating the initramfs part
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| 12:46 | <otwieracz> I think that I want to stay with NFS.
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| 12:46 | <knipwim> when you follow the NBD part in the gentoo manual, it should work
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| 12:46 | <otwieracz> But, my problems still exists.
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| 12:52 | <knipwim> otwieracz: if you pastebin your kicktoo profile, and ltsp-build-client.conf and the stage3 date you used
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| 12:52 | i can try to recreate your environment
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| 12:53 | <otwieracz> ltsp-build-client: http://wklej.org/id/927002/
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| 12:53 | Do not care about KERNEL_CONFIG.
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| 12:54 | Now I've created my own config for genkernel with drivers for my NIC included.
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| 12:54 | Yesterday this line was #.
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| 12:59 | <otwieracz> euclid ~ # ls /opt/ltsp/i686/stage3*
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| 12:59 | /opt/ltsp/i686/stage3-i686-20121213.tar.bz
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| 13:00 | <dievel> Hi. Does anybody knows why "ltsp-update-image --arch i386" give me back "Failed to read file /opt/ltsp/i386/..." and fail?
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| 13:18 | <otwieracz> Probably my kernel failed to build.
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| 13:18 | But I saw no errors – only lack of kernel in /opt/ltsp/i686.
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| 13:18 | (initramfs only)
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| 13:18 | Whats wrong?
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| 13:48 | <knipwim> otwieracz: sorry mate, can't help you now, the project manager is looking over my shoulder
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| 13:49 | <otwieracz> Np :)
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| 13:49 | <knipwim> probably in an hour or two
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| 13:49 | <otwieracz> great!
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| 14:13 | <dievel> Solved. I had to reboot the ltsp server in order to make the ltsp-update-image work. Strange. Some kind of lock? I too new to this LTSP.
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| 14:13 | *I'm too new.
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| 14:55 | <isthakur_> I want to setup an ltsp enviroment for windows os based clients or client that can run some windoes bases softwares such as dreamweaver, photoshop etc I wouldn't mind to use wine or any other windows emulator
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> isthakur_: and your question is?
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| 15:03 | <isthakur_> is it possible and how
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| 15:04 | I know a bit about ubuntu and tried on 12.04 but could not complete the configuration
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> Yup it's possible, either as a VM or with remote desktop (SCREEN_07="xfreerdp params")
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| 15:07 | You need to study about it a bit and end up with specific questions though...
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| 15:08 | I think there were some blogs about those issues, google a bit
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| 16:07 | <meamy> how can i stop this message "thin client not configured yet" ?
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| 16:39 | <otwieracz> knipwim: Write when you'll be ready. I'll be back in ~30 minutes – have to buy some eatables.
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| 16:59 | <_JuJuBee> Hyperbyte: Woke up to 6" of snow. School closed and no power til a few minutes ago. I will have to continue the server project Tomorrow.
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| 17:15 | <knipwim> otwieracz: just started a chroot build here
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| 17:16 | starting afresh, with not binary packages and a default kicktoo configuration
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| 17:22 | this could take a while, going the eat something first, get back to you in an hour or so
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| 17:22 | <otwieracz> OK
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| 17:44 | <Hyperbyte> _JuJuBee, no worries. :)
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| 17:44 | There's quite a bit of snow here too!
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| 17:45 | Not six inches, but close enough. :)[C
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| 17:45 | Roads are a complete mess... I ride a two-wheeler normally, so had to use public transit to get to work.
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| 18:34 | <knipwim> Hyperbyte: know what you mean, but going by bike instead to avoid the queues
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| 18:35 | good fun with a mountainbike
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| 18:37 | <otwieracz> knipwim: wassup?
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| 18:38 | <knipwim> building mesa
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| 19:29 | <otwieracz> knipwim: Any ETA?
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| 19:33 | <knipwim> i think i got it
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| 19:34 | can you go into your chroot?
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| 19:34 | and do a emerge -av xorg-drivers
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| 19:34 | and see which INPUT_DEVICES and VIDEO_CARDS are listed?
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| 19:34 | otwieracz: ^^
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| 19:35 | <otwieracz> Wait a second, if you can.
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| 19:35 | <knipwim> np
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| 19:38 | <otwieracz> knipwim: http://wklej.org/hash/e5e51ab4d4b/
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| 19:38 | This should be sufficient.
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| 19:39 | But let me see at xorg-drivers exactly…
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| 19:39 | [ebuild R ] x11-base/xorg-drivers-1.13 INPUT_DEVICES="evdev* keyboard* mouse* -acecad -aiptek -elographics -fpit -hyperpen -joystick -mutouch -penmount -synaptics -tslib -vmmouse -void -wacom" VIDEO_CARDS="dummy* fbdev* glint* intel* mach64* mga* nouveau* nv* r128* radeon* savage* sis* tdfx* trident* v4l* vesa* via* vmware* -apm -ark -ast -chips -cirrus -epson -fglrx -geode -i128 -i740 -modesetting -neomagic (-newport) -nvidia (-omap) (-omapfb) -qxl -ren
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| 19:40 | Also, I need via-rhine module in initrd.
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| 19:40 | How can I add it?
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| 19:40 | (other that manual building of initrd in chroot)
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| 19:42 | <knipwim> so, can i asume the use flags with a * are not built? for instance, do you have a x11-drivers/xf86-video-fbdev installed in the chroot?
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| 19:42 | <otwieracz> Yes.
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| 19:42 | * WILL be built.
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| 19:43 | <knipwim> i have the same, when booting i see the same ldminfod message on the server
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| 19:43 | when logging in on a running client, the Xorg.log tells me there are no video card drivers installed
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| 19:44 | <otwieracz> Yep, no screens.
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| 19:44 | <knipwim> i guess that's the problem
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| 19:44 | set the VIDEO_CARDS in make.conf for your cards
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| 19:45 | i always add vesa and fbdev and the card of the client
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| 19:45 | <otwieracz> In chroot, right?
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| 19:45 | <knipwim> yep
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| 19:45 | <otwieracz> Maybe first try decommenting #VIDEO_CARDS="vesa intel radeon mach64 via"
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| 19:45 | <knipwim> in the ltsp-build-client.conf ?
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| 19:46 | <otwieracz> Yep.
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| 19:46 | <knipwim> that's just for the installation
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| 19:46 | <otwieracz> And also adding sis.
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| 19:46 | <knipwim> a suggested default
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| 19:46 | <otwieracz> Because my thin client is sis.
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| 19:46 | # Install only the following video card drivers in the chroot
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| 19:46 | I'll try this.
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| 19:47 | <knipwim> so you would only have VIDEO_CARDS="vesa fbdev sis" in /etc/portage/make.conf on the chroot
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| 19:47 | <otwieracz> But it won't be used while emerging?
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| 19:48 | <knipwim> it will, if you put it in the chroot make.conf
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| 19:48 | just add it and emerge -av --newuse xorg-drivers
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| 19:48 | <otwieracz> Hm.
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| 19:48 | <knipwim> only the selected stuff will be *
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| 19:49 | <otwieracz> What about that initramfs?
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| 19:49 | <knipwim> if you booted before, i guess you won't need the network driver
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| 19:50 | <otwieracz> It booted before beucase I've logged into chroot and recompiled initramfs.
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| 19:51 | <knipwim> but the client won't boot from the network with your new initramfs?
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| 19:51 | <otwieracz> Why?
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| 19:51 | I do not understand.
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| 19:51 | <knipwim> me neither :)
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| 19:52 | i could you get the ldminfod error if your client never netbooted?
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| 19:53 | <otwieracz> My client previously netbooted BEUCASE I've logged with ltsp-chrot and edited default genkrenel config to include „via-rhine” into initramfs. Then I started genkernel, builded new kernel and initramfs and done ltsp-update-kernels.
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| 19:53 | There's no more gentle way?
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| 19:54 | <knipwim> nope
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| 19:54 | but you don't have do that every time
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| 19:54 | <otwieracz> do what?
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| 19:54 | <knipwim> the initramfs and kernel are saved
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| 19:55 | <otwieracz> Yep, but when I've rebuilded whole chroot environment…
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| 19:55 | <knipwim> ah, the get overwritten by the ltsp-update-kernels
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| 19:55 | <otwieracz> Yep.
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| 19:56 | <knipwim> i use the KERNEL_CONFIG_URI for that
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| 19:56 | <otwieracz> But now my kernel by some reason does not want to compile.
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| 19:56 | But I can not get error messages.
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| 19:56 | <knipwim> you can set it in your ltsp-build-client.conf
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| 19:56 | <otwieracz> Yes.
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| 19:57 | But, what's worse, I still can not affect initramfs modules.
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| 19:57 | I only can to compile as „y” via-rhine, instead of „m”.
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| 19:57 | <knipwim> they don't get included in the genkernel conf
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| 19:57 | <otwieracz> Yep.
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| 19:57 | <knipwim> aahhh
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| 19:58 | crap genkernel
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| 19:58 | that's why i moved to dracut
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| 19:59 | but there is an easier way of doing that
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| 19:59 | during a build
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| 19:59 | <otwieracz> What way?
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| 19:59 | <knipwim> what is the file you add the module to? the genkernel config file?
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| 19:59 | <otwieracz> Very ugly under /usr/share.
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| 20:00 | AFAIR.
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| 20:00 | <knipwim> i don't have it installed, could you look?
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| 20:00 | in your chroot
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| 20:01 | <otwieracz> You don't have genkernel, right?
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| 20:01 | <knipwim> or better, pastebin the file with the via-rhine entry added
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| 20:01 | no
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| 20:01 | wait
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| 20:02 | in my chroot :)
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| 20:02 | of course
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| 20:02 | btw, remerging the xorg-drivers with the new flags worked on my client
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| 20:03 | <knipwim> /usr/share/genkernel/arch/x86/modules_load
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| 20:03 | otwieracz: ^^ add the via-rhine to MODULES_NET
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| 20:04 | <otwieracz> Exactly here I've added it :)
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| 20:05 | IDE/SATA isn't necessary, right?
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| 20:05 | <knipwim> if they're not in the kernel, they won't be installed
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| 20:06 | <otwieracz> They are not required for thin client, probably.
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| 20:06 | But they are loaded and it takes a while.
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| 20:06 | OK, installing.
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| 20:06 | Later genkernel.
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| 20:08 | <knipwim> i'm working on a more permanent fixt
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| 20:08 | so you can include it in every build
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| 20:09 | <otwieracz> Probably I need to supply CONFIG_SOMETHING_VIA_RHINE=y in kernel config.
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| 20:09 | Then it will be hardcompiled into kernel and no need to settle in initrd.
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| 20:10 | But it is still not a solution for initramfs.
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| 20:10 | And AFAIR there is no simple way to modify genkernel modules from /etc.
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| 20:10 | Only providing own setup.
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| 20:11 | Like the whole set in /usr/share/genkernel/arch/.
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| 20:11 | <knipwim> i was thinking of adding a line from the kicktoo config
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| 20:12 | like echo "MODULES_NET="${MODULES_NET} via-rhine" >> ${chroot_dir}/usr/share/genkernel/arch/x86/modules_load
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| 20:18 | <otwieracz> It might be the solution.
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| 20:18 | But still workaround.
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| 20:19 | <knipwim> otwieracz: if you add the following to your /etc/ltsp/profiles/kicktoo-5.3.profile it'll work
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| 20:19 | http://dpaste.com/879356/
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| 20:19 | <otwieracz> But still workaround :P
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| 20:19 | <knipwim> in order, it will be executed after pre_install_initramfs_builder()
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| 20:20 | <otwieracz> Understand.
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| 20:20 | <knipwim> true, i'll think of a way to do this with less of a workaround
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| 20:21 | and set the kernel VIA_RHINE to m in the kernel
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| 20:21 | unless i don't understand how genkernel works
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| 20:22 | it only uses the modules you built right?
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| 20:22 | or does it build the modules you select in modules_load?
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| 20:23 | <otwieracz> knipwim: VIA_RHINE is m by default.
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| 20:23 | AFAIK it uses modules built with kernel.
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| 20:23 | <knipwim> ok
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| 20:24 | <otwieracz> I hate initramfs
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| 20:26 | <knipwim> dracut is the way to go
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| 20:26 | although i haven't got it working for nfs
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| 20:27 | <otwieracz> Yep.
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| 20:27 | <knipwim> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Dracut
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| 20:38 | <otwieracz> Stupid slow server…
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| 20:38 | * otwieracz got used to SSD in notebook… | |
| 20:38 | <otwieracz> But there are disadventages.
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| 20:39 | But nevermind…
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| 20:39 | :)
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| 20:49 | Booting…
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| 20:49 | And failure
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| 20:49 | <knipwim> :(
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| 20:49 | <otwieracz> But now X are starting.
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| 20:49 | <knipwim> what failed
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| 20:50 | <otwieracz> I see pointer, and console, pointer, console, pointer console.
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| 20:50 | But there is progress.
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| 20:50 | <knipwim> you installed the extra xorg-drivers? xf86-video-sis etc ?
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| 20:51 | <otwieracz> Yep.
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| 20:51 | <knipwim> in the chroot right? just making sure
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| 20:51 | <otwieracz> From startx at client:
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| 20:51 | xterm: not found
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| 20:52 | And some weird output from ldm.
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| 20:52 | <whyzzyrd> evening. I've been looking at the mythbuntu pluging for ltsp, and rather than reinvent the wheel, can you guide me to the documentation for custom configuration of the fat-client option?
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| 20:53 | <knipwim> otwieracz: the xterm is from the xdm, which tries to start some xterms by default
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| 20:53 | <otwieracz> Yep.
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| 20:53 | <knipwim> but you don't want ldm
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| 20:53 | erm
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| 20:53 | you don't want xdm
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| 20:53 | <otwieracz> I understand.
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| 20:53 | <whyzzyrd> I'd specifically like to understand how to specify a limited range of packages to install into it, and how to configure an overlay mount on /
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| 20:53 | <otwieracz> There's no interference with ldm and xterm.
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| 20:54 | start_screen_sessions des
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| 20:54 | start_screen_sessions gives no output…
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| 20:54 | Only restarting X.
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| 20:55 | <knipwim> on the client, do you have a /var/log/Xorg.log ?
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| 20:56 | and /var/log/ldm.log
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> whyzzyrd: there's an overlay mount on / for ltsp fat clients anyway, you need a second one?
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| 20:56 | <otwieracz> knipwim: Nope.
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> whyzzyrd: You can add packages with e.g. --late-packages, but you can also install them after ltsp-build-client finishes
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| 20:57 | <otwieracz> knipwim: Oh, wait.
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| 20:57 | Yes.
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| 20:58 | <otwieracz> knipwim: Segmentation fault at address 0x0.
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| 20:58 | 0: X
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| 20:58 | 1: X
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| 20:59 | 2: linux-gate.so.1
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| 20:59 | <knipwim> can you pastebin the whole log?
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| 21:00 | <otwieracz> You have to wait a moment.
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| 21:00 | <whyzzyrd> alkisg: is there now. When I tinkered at it, I didn't see it. I'll check again. Many thanks
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| 21:00 | alkisg, is there a decent set of documentation I could look at anywhere?
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> whyzzyrd: for mythbuntu? no, we haven't heard of them for ages
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| 21:01 | Plain ubuntu with any packages you want would work,
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| 21:01 | <otwieracz> http://wklej.org/id/927616/
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| 21:01 | <whyzzyrd> no, for the ltsp client build process
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 21:01 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 21:01 | <whyzzyrd> kk
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> And, ltsp-build-client --extra-help
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| 21:01 | <whyzzyrd> thanks
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> np
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| 21:02 | <whyzzyrd> that link is apparently specific to 10.x and 11.x.
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| 21:02 | <alkisg> It wasn't updated for 12.04, but many things there still work fine
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| 21:03 | There's also this one:
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| 21:03 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 21:03 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 21:03 | <whyzzyrd> Has anything fatal changed between 5.2 and 5.4 in this area?
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| 21:06 | Thanks. I'll go read up.
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| 21:07 | <otwieracz> knipwim: Ideas?
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| 21:07 | knipwim: (i'm afreaid no ideas)
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| 21:10 | <knipwim> nope
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| 21:10 | not at this time
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| 21:10 | but it's late for me
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| 21:10 | <otwieracz> Understand.
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| 21:10 | <knipwim> going to bed in a few
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| 21:11 | you could post the xorg log here and maybe it's not gentoo specific and someone else can help
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| 21:11 | or perhaps in #gentoo
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| 21:14 | otwieracz: if you're not, i can recommend cc'ing on https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177580
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| 21:14 | i post all gentoo ltsp news there
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| 21:15 | <otwieracz> I don't know, maybe I will recompile with i386.
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| 21:15 | Maybe my i686 HP T5720 isn't really i686.
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| 21:18 | <knipwim> i have a t5710
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| 21:18 | Transmeta Efficeon TM8000 cpu
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| 21:18 | <whyzzyrd> 5720 apparently has a 1G Geode
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| 21:18 | <knipwim> that's i686
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| 21:19 | <whyzzyrd> ze wikipedia reckons it's an athlon core
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| 21:20 | <otwieracz> So it probably will not help.
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| 21:22 | <knipwim> otwieracz: well good luck for now, i'll probably be here tomorrow
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| 21:22 | <otwieracz> thanks for today!
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| 21:22 | <knipwim> not sure how long though
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| 21:22 | <knipwim> i think your best bet is #gentoo and the xorg log output
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| 21:24 | <otwieracz> I'm afraid I already know that segfaults are not easy fixable.
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| 21:24 | emerging gdb now, however.
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| 21:25 | <whyzzyrd> otwieracz, does something else run on this hardware?
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| 21:25 | <otwieracz> Which hardware?
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| 21:25 | Client?
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| 21:26 | <whyzzyrd> the one that segfaults
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| 21:26 | <otwieracz> I've started Ubuntu, AFAIR…
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| 21:26 | Or maybe not…
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| 21:26 | <whyzzyrd> (ie, is the ram good?)
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| 21:43 | <otwieracz> whyzzyrd: I think so.
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| 21:46 | https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7521
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| 21:47 | <whyzzyrd> otwieracz, ah I see.
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| 22:20 | <otwieracz> Hm.
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| 22:20 | X is not crashing.
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| 22:20 | Or, at lest, X without ldm does not crash.
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| 22:22 | I've successfully started rxvt-unicode.
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| 22:28 | http://wklej.org/id/827724/
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| 22:28 | http://wklej.org/id/927724/
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| 22:28 | That first was a typo :)
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| 22:29 | knipwim: http://wklej.org/id/927724/
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| 22:30 | Maybe that's the problem.
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