IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 27 February 2019 (all times are UTC)
| 00:05 | <vagrantc> you would need to set up an alternate home directory mounting
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| 00:05 | such as NFS
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| 00:05 | by default, it just mounts the user's home directory with sshfs
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| 00:06 | there's also a feature to mount extra mountpoints ... you could mount the other homedirs in another location read-only or something
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| 00:34 | <josefig> vagrantc, thanks i figured out how to do it :)
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| 03:56 | <mwalters> alkisg: I googled it ;)
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| 04:28 | re: one image
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| 04:28 | something with gemini, castor & pollux?
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| 04:30 | ancient greek mythos is cool ;)
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| 06:16 | wyseguy has joined IRC (wyseguy!~wyseguy@unaffiliated/wyseguy) | |
| 06:16 | <alkisg> mwalters: thanks, I like the idea... is "dioscuri" (the Greek name for those twins) pronounceable in English, or does it sound bad?
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| 06:16 | <wyseguy> Hi there
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| 06:16 | <alkisg> Hi wyseguy
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| 06:16 | <wyseguy> hi alkisg
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| 06:17 | was in the ubuntu channel and someone recomended the ltsp website, found out your have a channel :)
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| 06:18 | i have a few wyse windows embeded thin clients and a few thinos thin clients, i am looking to have multiple logins into a ubuntu server with a desktop experience, wondering if this is possible. basically the same setup as windows server with multiple people that rdp in with thin clients, but linux
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| 06:18 | <alkisg> Yeah that's ltsp all right
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| 06:18 | How much ram do these have?
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| 06:18 | <wyseguy> great
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| 06:18 | um
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| 06:18 | good question
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| 06:19 | <wyseguy> they are all at the office, didnt bring one home
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| 06:19 | let me see if i can look it up
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| 06:20 | its a Dx0D
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| 06:20 | it think 2GB
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| 06:21 | <alkisg> Oh great, then they'll function as "ltsp fat clients"
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| 06:21 | Which means, remote disk, not remote cpu/screen
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| 06:21 | <wyseguy> ya these are the ones with thinOS on them
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| 06:21 | <alkisg> They work much better this way
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| 06:21 | OK, here's the installation page:
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| 06:21 | !install
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| 06:21 | <ltsp> install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 06:21 | <alkisg> Follow it as closely as possible, it works out of the box, THEN start tweaking
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| 06:21 | <wyseguy> okay, do i want to use the ones that have thinOS on them?
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| 06:22 | <alkisg> CPU/RAM ? :)
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| 06:22 | <wyseguy> what about the ones that have windows embeded? cant use those?
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| 06:22 | <alkisg> Are those ARM?
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| 06:22 | For all of them, get their specific cpu model and ram
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| 06:22 | <wyseguy> here are the thinOS ones
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| 06:22 | Manufacturer: Dell Part Number: 909833-62L+DEVICE ONLY Model Number: Dx0D Description: Dell Wyse 5012-D10D Thin Client 2GB-RAM 2GB-Flash And Antenna 909833-62L+DEVICE ONLY Type: Thin Client Memory Capacity: 2GB Flash Storage Capacity: 2GB Processor Speed: 1.4GHz Operating System: Wyse ThinOS Memory Type: DDR3 SDRAM GENERAL: Product Form Factor Desktop slimline Built-in Devices speaker Manufacturer Wyse Technology Inc. PROCESSOR / CHIPSET: CPU AMD
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| 06:22 | G-T48E 1.4 GHz Number of Cores Dual-Core RAM: Memory Speed 1066 MHz PROCESSOR: Max Supported Qty 1 MONITOR: Monitor Type None. NETWORKING: Data Link Protocol Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet GRAPHICS CONTROLLER: Graphics Processor AMD Radeon HD 6250 Video Interfaces DVI, DisplayPort, VGA AUDIO OUTPUT: Sound Output Mode stereo OPERATING SYSTEM / SOFTWARE OS Provided: Type Wyse Thin OS OS Provided Wyse Thin OS
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| 06:23 | <alkisg> Eh, just the cpu and ram is fine :D
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| 06:23 | Your cpu: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+G-T48E&id=1999
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| 06:23 | 724 score. Not fast, but it works.
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| 06:23 | So yup those are fine
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| 06:24 | <wyseguy> okay, now would we be writing over the thinOS? or...
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> No, the disk isn't touched by ltsp
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| 06:24 | <wyseguy> ah got it
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> You only need to enable netbooting on their bios
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| 06:24 | <wyseguy> let me see if i can find the specs of the windows embeded ones
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| 06:24 | ah
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| 06:27 | Wyse Zx0 Z90D7 Windows 7 WIFI WES7 909686-01L Z90D7 16GB-F 4GB-R 909740-04L
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| 06:27 | looks like 4gb ram
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| 06:28 | 16gb hdd
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| 06:28 | Processor Speed: 1.65GHz
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| 06:28 | so the windows embeded ones my be a little better
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> Is it this cpu? https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+G-T56N&id=268
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| 06:28 | This one has 791 score, about the same thing
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| 06:28 | <wyseguy> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wyse-Zx0-Z90D7-Windows-7-WIFI-WES7-909686-01L-Z90D7-16GB-F-4GB-R-909740-04L-/192718719209?hash=item2cdeee48e9
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| 06:29 | not sure
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| 06:29 | looking for another posting, maybe they will show
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| 06:29 | <alkisg> The processor ghz isn't significant, it's like saying "my car has 6 gears", so what...
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| 06:30 | The cpubenchmark.net listing is a lot more accurate
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| 06:30 | <wyseguy> exactly lol, still looking
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| 06:30 | Processor Model: T56N Processor Core: Dual-core (2 Core) Processor Speed: 1.65 GHz
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| 06:30 | you got it right
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| 06:31 | okay so basically the same processor and a double the ram in these ones
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| 06:31 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 06:32 | Also check if all of your clients are 64bit, or if some model is 32bit
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| 06:32 | <wyseguy> so my next question is do i install ubuntu desktop and then follow the steps or ubuntu server?
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| 06:32 | <alkisg> So that you know which one to install on your server
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| 06:32 | <wyseguy> figure ubuntu is ubuntu is ubuntu
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| 06:32 | ah
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| 06:32 | good catch
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| 06:32 | <alkisg> Read the wiki page, I answered that question there too :)
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| 06:32 | <wyseguy> was just browsing it
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| 06:33 | typical of me to skip the first line LOL
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| 06:35 | <wyseguy> how come we want the user machines to do the bulk of the processing rather than the server?
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| 06:35 | cant used these wyse boxes at thin clients?
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| 06:36 | has to be fat?
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| 06:36 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 06:36 | <ltsp> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 06:36 | <wyseguy> would rather have the server handle the bulk of the processing as it has a lot of resources
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| 06:36 | <alkisg> Do you have 2.5 gbps *per client*?
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| 06:37 | E.g. 25 gbps for 10 clients? :D
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| 06:37 | <wyseguy> i have dual 10gb cards in the server
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> Toggling thin/fat client is just one line in a configuration file, lts.conf
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| 06:37 | So you can test and see for yourself which one works better in your setup
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| 06:37 | <wyseguy> so i take it this is a LOT different than how RDP works
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> HJow many clients?
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| 06:37 | <wyseguy> about 8
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| 06:38 | <alkisg> Nope, it's not very different, remote screen is always like that
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| 06:38 | <wyseguy> but 2.5gbps?
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| 06:38 | <alkisg> Yup, do the math
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| 06:38 | <wyseguy> seems super excessive for remote screen
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| 06:38 | <alkisg> In some versions of rdp there are hooks to "catch" the video and send it to the client for decoding there
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| 06:38 | It's called "remote fx"; it's the only way to avoid 2.5 gbps
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| 06:38 | ...and that's basically "fat client", just for youtube though
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| 06:39 | <wyseguy> ah, so the fx is handeled by the client
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| 06:39 | got it
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| 06:39 | <alkisg> In some *rare* cases of good rdp setups
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| 06:39 | I don't know if you do have such a setup
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| 06:39 | The screen bandwidth is the reason hdmi streams are compressed
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| 06:39 | And even lvds signals are compressed too
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| 06:40 | Remote disk needs so much less bandwidth; so we don't recommend the thin client model anymore
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| 06:40 | <wyseguy> hp dl360 g8, raid10 , enterprise ssd for os, 96gb ram, dual 10gb to 10gb switch, bunch of wyse thin clients
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| 06:40 | got it
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| 06:41 | would a raspberry pi do a better job?
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| 06:41 | as the end client?
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| 06:41 | <alkisg> No, their cpu score is like 100 vs your 750
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| 06:41 | <wyseguy> ahh
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| 06:41 | okay
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| 06:42 | ill give this a go tomorrow and see how it goes
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| 06:42 | thanks for all the info!
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| 06:42 | <alkisg> You have an ideal setup for thin clients though
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| 06:42 | With that networking and ram
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| 06:42 | So you can test both
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| 06:42 | bb
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| 06:42 | <wyseguy> ya, i have 3 identical servers so i will be able to testlab this stuff
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| 12:20 | <JuJUBee> How big of a partition should I have with LTSP server? I don't have tons of apps installed. Currently have 100G and again need to expand my partition. Got to 88% writing image and it failed.
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| 12:20 | Is there a backup image I can remove before trying ltsp-update-image ?
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> JuJUBee: sudo apt clean; sudo rm /opt/ltsp/images/*.old
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| 12:22 | JuJUBee: a typical installation needs 40 MB with the image and everything
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| 12:22 | So I guess the problem is your /home ?
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| 12:24 | <JuJUBee> no, /home is separate partition
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| 12:24 | 40M or 40G ?
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> JuJUBee: run `du -sh /` or something similar, to see what takes up your space
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| 12:24 | 40 GB, sorry
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| 12:24 | <JuJUBee> Whew...
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> That's including /home for a typical school
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| 12:25 | Along with 5 GB of educational apps...
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| 12:25 | <JuJUBee> The .old image was taking 27G
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| 12:25 | Should be good now
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> JuJUBee: woah
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| 12:25 | I guess you put something in the image that you shouldn't
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| 12:26 | E.g. if you use /home2 instead of /home, and chrootless ltsp,then this goes into the image
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| 12:26 | You should exclude such things from /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes
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| 12:26 | 27GB, oh my, that would need 1+ hour to be generated
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| 12:26 | A typical image is 10 times less
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| 12:28 | <JuJUBee> Never thought of that. Just added it. Thanks for the help
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| 12:28 | And yes, took over 1 hour
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| 12:29 | <alkisg> Usually it needs less than 10 minutes
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| 12:31 | <JuJUBee> Do I need to restart ltsp server after editing the excludes before running update-image?
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> JuJUBee: no
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| 12:33 | So if your final image is over 5 GB, it still has issues
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| 12:33 | <JuJUBee> ok, i'll let you know how it turns out
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| 13:11 | <JuJUBee> alkisg, something else must be wonky. Was only at 28% after 30 min.
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| 13:16 | <mwalters> alkisg: trying to figure out how "dioscuri" should be pronounced in English... either of the two possibilities I come up with aren't "hard" though ;)
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| 13:17 | <fiesh> our current image has 42GB :)
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| 13:22 | <mwalters> "dye-oh-sc-your-ee"
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| 13:22 | This is fine for english speakers
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| 13:22 | (at least in my opinion)
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| 13:22 | I'm sure a bunch of people may pronounce it "dee-oh-scur-ee"
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| 13:23 | I would have if I didn't know it was greek
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| 13:23 | <fiesh> dinoscrewyou
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| 13:23 | <mwalters> In any case, I like it... relevant but different
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| 13:29 | think it was vagrant who brought it up, keeping the binary tool names short and "comfortable" to type should be a priority, too
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| 13:30 | comfort is hard to measure, and changes based on the keyboard layout you're using. "ltsp" is short and super easy to type on an english qwerty keyboard
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| 13:31 | s/binary/command line
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| 13:32 | /wall of text ;)
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> (03:22:53 PM) mwalters: I'm sure a bunch of people may pronounce it "dee-oh-scur-ee" ==> and that would be the correct one ;)
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| 13:34 | <mwalters> oh really? I googled and found "d-eye-oh-sc-your-ee"
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| 13:34 | Imagine not being able to believe everything you find on the internet ;)
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> Eh, I don't know if it's correct in english or not, but this isn't the greek pronunciation
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| 13:34 | <mwalters> oic
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> dee-oh is "two" in greek
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| 13:35 | d eye oh ... is ... not greek, we don't use "eye" a lot
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| 13:35 | <mwalters> Yeah, usually "i" is pronounced as a long e in most languages that aren't english... but I always thought Greek was an exception... or was often the exception
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| 13:35 | not sure where I came up with this then
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| 13:35 | maybe a difference between modern Greek and what we learn about ancient Greece
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> (03:17:50 PM) fiesh: our current image has 42GB :) ==> wth?! What are you putting in there, the whole wikipedia?
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| 13:36 | <mwalters> and it's really "latin" that's pronounced that way
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| 13:36 | in any case, both sound fine ;)
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> I think it's the best one so far
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| 13:36 | I'll copyright it to you :D
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| 13:37 | <mwalters> This fanless fat client thread on the mailing list finally "solved" my freezing problem I think
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| 13:37 | all these freezing clients are celeron j1900s =/
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| 13:37 | hah, thanks
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> I need to keep an eye open for this issue, some schools may be affected
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| 13:38 | <mwalters> no worries though... I haven't contributed any code yet, the least I can do is contribute a stream of conciousness ;0
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| 13:38 | https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051
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| 13:38 | the relevant bug
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| 13:42 | <fiesh> 28GB of debugging symbols for /usr/lib64 alone
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| 13:42 | plus 4gb of debugging source in /usr/src/debug
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> fiesh: can't you use LOCALAPPS_EXTRA_MOUNTS for debugging symbols?
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| 13:54 | And exclude them with ltsp-update-image.excludes?
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| 13:54 | They're not use frequently by clients, are they?
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| 13:54 | Or even plain old nfs...
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| 14:06 | <fiesh> hmm I suppose I could, what would be the advantage?
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| 14:07 | <alkisg> Save disk space and ltsp-update-image time
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| 14:07 | That's about it
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| 14:08 | E.g. running ltsp-update-image in 5 mins instead of 50 is usually desirable...
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| 14:22 | <fiesh> hmm ltsp-update-image takes definitely less than 10 minutes, I've never timed it, but I'd say it's maybe around 3 from the feeling of it
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| 14:22 | so then I'm all good :)
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> 28 GB in 3 mins? YEAH you'd good :D
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| 14:35 | *you're
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| 14:46 | <fiesh> we have a lot of cores and I switched the compression to lz4 since it performs faster on the clients
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| 16:30 | <JuJUBee> alkisg, 3.7G
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> JuJUBee: that's better ;)
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| 16:42 | <JuJUBee> Much, thanks for the help.
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so, dioskuri it is :)
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| 17:47 | * vagrantc blinks | |
| 17:57 | <alkisg> :D
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| 17:57 | twins from the ancient greek pantheon
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| 17:59 | <vagrantc> and you were worried about thinking LTSP was out of date!
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| 18:00 | <alkisg> eh, when ltsp will become 3000 years old, it'll be "classic" too :D
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| 18:00 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 18:00 | <alkisg> does it sound pronouncable?
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| 18:00 | deeoskuree
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| 18:01 | (at least that's the greek pronunciation...)
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| 18:01 | <vagrantc> dios means god in spanish, at least
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| 18:01 | probably the same root
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> deeo is two in greek
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| 18:02 | (because they were twins)
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| 18:03 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 18:23 | <mwalters> Beyond that, there isn't much corollary in the story ;)
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| 18:24 | I mean.. unless the server decides to go to hell because someone kills a client
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| 18:24 | hopefully that'll never be a bug
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| 18:24 | :D
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| 18:24 | I guess that isn't a good metaphor
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| 18:25 | One client dies and then another decides to go to hell in its place?
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| 18:25 | Maybe this is taking it too far
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| 18:28 | With the move to systemd, are the RCFILE_## lts.conf entries still valid?
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> Υθπ
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| 18:29 | Also, yup
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| 18:29 | <mwalters> does it still look in /etc/rc.local, or does it use the systemd path?
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| 18:35 | <mwalters> maybe I should actually ask this... I want to run a python script on the fat client when it boots (to mitigate that CPU/Kernel bug), is RCFILE_## the right way to do that?
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> it creates an rc.local if it doesn't exist
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| 18:50 | INIT_COMMAND_* is for veeeery early commands
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| 18:50 | RC_FILE* is for later
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| 18:56 | <mwalters> ok, thanks!
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| 18:57 | oh! I get it... I specify something like... RCFILE_01 = /opt/my_stuff/my_script.sh, ltsp/lts.conf injects it into rc.local on the client
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| 18:58 | or something similar
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| 18:58 | I'm overcomplicated it in my head
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| 18:58 | overcomplicating
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| 18:58 | <alkisg> it just adds the line you specify to lts.conf
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| 18:58 | it doesn't copy scripts etc
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| 18:59 | <mwalters> yeah
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| 18:59 | <quinox> you can also put it in /etc/rc.local in the image directly
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| 18:59 | <mwalters> sure, this is something I don't want all the clients to execute, though
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| 18:59 | so use like/mac targeting
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| 19:00 | <quinox> you can test CPU vulns from inside linux
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| 19:00 | that way you don't have to keep track of all those clients yourself
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| 19:00 | <mwalters> yeah, as I typed that I started to think if I should just check the cpu name in the script ;)
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| 19:00 | getting all those mac addresses seems tiresome :D
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| 19:01 | <quinox> quinox@ghost:/proc$ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*
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| 19:01 | Mitigation: PTE Inversion
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| 19:01 | Mitigation: PTI
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| 19:01 | Vulnerable
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| 19:01 | Mitigation: __user pointer sanitization
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| 19:01 | Mitigation: Full generic retpoline
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| 19:01 | <mwalters> This is a kernel bug w/ cstates
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| 19:01 | https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051
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| 19:03 | <quinox> that thread is loooong
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| 19:03 | <mwalters> yup :D
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| 19:03 | afaik, it's still not fixed
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| 19:03 | just workarounds
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| 19:35 | <alkisg> mwalters: just put a script in /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d, that checks cpu and applies the patch/whatever
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| 19:47 | <mwalters> oic, thanks
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| 22:00 | Faith has left IRC (Faith!~Paty_@unaffiliated/faith, Quit: Leaving) | |
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