IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 July 2017 (all times are UTC)
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| 14:37 | <paulo_silvaa> Hello guys! How are you? My name is Paulo and I'm from Brazil.
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| 14:38 | I have a question and would be grateful if someone would help me.
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| 14:38 | <vagrantc> !ask | echo paulo_silvaa
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| 14:38 | <ltsp`> paulo_silvaa ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 14:40 | <paulo_silvaa> I have some problems with browsers in LTSP, they consume a lot of CPU. I tried Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome, both on my Debian Wheezie.
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> wheezy is quite old at this point
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| 14:41 | <paulo_silvaa> This is a problem for me and I would like to know if someone have a tip about this... What browser do you use
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| 14:41 | <vagrantc> are you using thin or fat clients?
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| 14:41 | <paulo_silvaa> Thin
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| 14:41 | What OS do you recommend?
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| 14:41 | <vagrantc> what are the hardware specs of your clients?
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| 14:42 | <paulo_silvaa> CPU: Dual Core
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| 14:42 | MEM: 2GB
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| 14:42 | <vagrantc> paulo_silvaa: well, there have been two debian releases in the 4 years since wheezy was released
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| 14:42 | <paulo_silvaa> But the browser run on server right?
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| 14:42 | Or they run on the client too?
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| 14:42 | <vagrantc> paulo_silvaa: i'd recommend trying fat clients if you have that much ram
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| 14:43 | with thin clients, the browser runs on the server... even with a very fast server, it will be slow
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| 14:43 | !fat
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| 14:43 | <ltsp`> I do not know about 'fat', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclient-printers', 'epoptes-fat-clients', 'fat-internal-disks', 'fat-passwd', 'fat-sudo', 'fatclients'
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| 14:43 | <vagrantc> !ltsp-pnp
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| 14:43 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 14:43 | <vagrantc> you can also do ltsp-pnp with debian
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| 14:43 | !debian
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| 14:43 | <ltsp`> debian: is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
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| 14:43 | <paulo_silvaa> Okay! Thank you very much!
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| 14:44 | :D
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| 14:44 | <vagrantc> with fat clients, the software running will take advantage of the client's ram and CPU
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| 14:44 | and i'd suggest using debian stretch
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| 14:45 | <paulo_silvaa> Do you suggest any other SO?
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> it will get the best security support for the next 3-5 years
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| 14:45 | SO?
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| 14:45 | <paulo_silvaa> Sorry
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| 14:45 | OS
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| 14:45 | Operation System
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> well, i maintain LTSP in Debian, so i'm biased :)
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| 14:46 | <paulo_silvaa> Do you think that XFCE is a good GUI to use with LTSP?
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| 14:46 | Okay, hehe.
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| 14:48 | What GUI do you use with your Debian?
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| 14:54 | <vagrantc> i use i3, but i'm not sure that would work for most people :)
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| 14:54 | for LTSP installs, i've used gnome, mate, lxde
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| 14:58 | <paulo_silvaa> Hahahaa, I agree
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| 14:58 | <vagrantc> xfce is probably fine too
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| 15:00 | <paulo_silvaa> Yes, is a good GUI to end users. :)
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| 15:00 | Thank you very much for help friend! Good bye!
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> good luck
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| 15:32 | <ZAJDAN> hi vagrant: If I remember correctly ..you use LTSP on Debian..do you use there also Epoptes?
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| 15:34 | vagrantc: if yes ...could You try in the Epoptes feature 'LOCK/UNLOCK screen' ? lock the screen ...wait half minute and try unlock
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> ZAJDAN: i don't have it in use in any real-world settings
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| 15:44 | ZAJDAN: but i can try it on a test setup
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| 15:45 | ZAJDAN: what version of epoptes are you using?
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I asked highvoltage about this, and he thinks it's a good idea: why don't we just deprecate all ldm themes and keep one ltsp theme for all distros?
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| 15:51 | I don't think there's any ongoing effort to make ldm themes for edubuntu or ubuntu or xfce or whatever nowadays...
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> just make the default theme nicer?
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 15:52 | I like the Ubuntu theme just fine, if it said "LTSP" on top I think it'd be fine for all
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| 15:52 | <vagrantc> i've been updating the theme with Debian's artwork each release cycle
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| 15:52 | well, the ldm-themes package in Debian
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| 15:53 | sooner we can move away from ldm, the more moot this becomes
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> True... but I wonder how many years that will take :)
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| 15:53 | This theme: http://www.m-opensolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mint_ltsp_2.png, with this logo: http://www.berryterminal.com/qemu-stuff.png, seems fine to me for all ltsp users
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| 15:54 | And, it's possible to login from a debian client to an ubuntu server, so the distro logo doesn't apply too much there anyway...
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| 15:54 | <highvoltage> +1 on default theme nicer
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| 15:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i don't know that that theme is any nicer :P
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> You can put the one you prefer, I don't mind
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> the issue is including a default theme that takes more space if it's going to be overriden by the distro
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| 15:57 | the default theme was optimized for size for this reason
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> The distro can discard the default theme if it ships one
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| 15:57 | So no extra space at all
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> then it requires more packaging to maintain
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| 15:58 | especially if you want to just pull in the ldm package from debian, you'd have to fork it for ubuntu again
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> Yes, maintaining 2 more lines in packaging that don't ever change should be less burden than maintaining themes...
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| 15:58 | Nah, the rules can build the default theme on ubuntu
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| 15:59 | <vagrantc> doubt that will be just two more lines in the package
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> Anyways, it sounds like you're negative about this, so let's forget it
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc> that said, i should try to get some minor fixes into the theme for debian :)
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> We'll need to put those lines in the ltsp-manager packaging though
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| 16:01 | So that it recommends different themes on debian vs ubuntu
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| 16:02 | Maybe an ldm-ubuntu-theme | ldm-themes will be enough for both worlds
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| 16:02 | <vagrantc> i think it uses the X-Ubuntu-Recommends or whatever
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> I didn't put X-Ubuntu-Recommends in the ltsp-manager packaging
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| 16:03 | I don't support X- directives yet there
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| 16:03 | It sounded like too much burden to maintain
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| 16:03 | I prefer simplicity
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc> well, it's bad form to depend on packages that aren't present in Debian, even if another alternative is available
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> I know, I'm the one that proposed it ;)
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc> might even be an explicit policy violation...
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> But I wouldn't want it in ltsp-manager if I can avoid it...
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| 16:04 | I prefer packages that are the same in debian as in ubuntu, e.g. epoptes...
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| 16:05 | * vagrantc suspects it won't really be avoidable | |
| 16:06 | <alkisg> This is the ltsp-pnp line:
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| 16:06 | apt-get --yes --install-recommends install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme
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| 16:06 | So that would roughly translate to this Recommends: dnsmasq, ltsp-server-standalone, ltsp-client, ldm-ubuntu-theme | ldm-themes
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| 16:07 | Does Debian need something different there?
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| 16:07 | <vagrantc> well, ldm-ubuntu-theme isn't in debian
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| 16:07 | so it would fail... ??
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> No, it would be satisfied with ldm-themes
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| 16:07 | The actual line I'm using now is: Recommends: apturl, bindfs, dnsmasq, epoptes, ethtool, iperf, ldm-ubuntu-theme | ldm-edubuntu-theme | ldm-kubuntu-theme | ldm-lubuntu-theme | ldm-xubuntu-theme | ldm-themes, ltsp-client (>= 5.4.0), ltsp-docs, ltsp-server-standalone (>= 5.4.0) | ltsp-server (>= 5.4.0)
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| 16:07 | <vagrantc> ah, not calling apt-get explicitly?
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> It did install fine on debian
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| 16:07 | No, it's in debian/control => recommends
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| 16:08 | <vagrantc> sure, it installs fine, but it will eventually get bug reports about being incorrect
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| 16:08 | oh, ltsp-docs
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| 16:08 | * vagrantc sighs | |
| 16:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it's technically fine, it's just not correct :P
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> vagrantc: what do you suggest that we do?
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if you really must have that, have different dependencies in ubuntu
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: have what? ltsp-manager recommending all the required packages, instead of the user manually selecting all of them?
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: alternately, ship a differtent ldm-themes package in ubuntu
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> OK, let's then rename ldm-ubuntu-theme to ldm-themes in Ubuntu and we're done
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| 16:13 | And drop all the ldm-edubuntu/kubuntu etc ones
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> and it could Provide: ldm-ubuntu-theme in order to have backwards compatibility with previous dependency chains
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> i don't see what's so hard about different dependencies on ubuntu and debian, though
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> It increases the chaos instead of decreasing it
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| 16:15 | I don't see why ubuntu *must* have different dependencies when it doesn't need them
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| 16:15 | It's ltsp; we're the programmers; we're maintainers for both distros; why must we make it hard on ourselves
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| 16:16 | <vagrantc> well, the core reason is we want different themes :P
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> The packaging can just cp $DISTRO.png to target
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| 16:17 | Anyways, I think we got a solution
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| 16:19 | <vagrantc> build a different default theme on ubuntu?
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| 16:19 | a little bit larger theme in the source package isn't so bad.
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| 16:19 | within reason
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| 16:21 | * alkisg needs to go & waves, see you guys later :) | |
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