IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 7 September 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:53 | <enid> is there a guide for ltsp setup with a single nic?
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| 04:04 | <enid> !single
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| 04:04 | <ltsp> Error: "single" is not a valid command.
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| 04:06 | <enid> !nic
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| 04:06 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'nic', but I do know about these similar topics: 'Teutonic', 'panic-reboot', 'nickname'
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| 04:06 | <enid> !setup
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| 04:06 | <ltsp> setup: Please describe your setup so that we can propose better solutions for you. Server and client CPU (exact model) and RAM, how many clients, gigabit switch or not, desired desktop environment etc.
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| 04:06 | <enid> !single-nic
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| 04:06 | <ltsp> Error: "single-nic" is not a valid command.
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| 04:57 | <alkisg> Teutonic? Really?!
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| 04:57 | !Teutonic
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| 04:57 | <ltsp> Teutonic: Not enough Gin.
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| 04:57 | <alkisg> !forget Teutonic
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| 04:57 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 06:41 | <alkisg> !client-list
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| 06:41 | <ltsp> client-list: to get a list of all nbd-clients (which sometimes is the same as ltsp clients), run: netstat -tn | sed -n 's/.*:10809 *\([0-9.]*\):.*/\1/p' | sort -Vu
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| 13:45 | <Claudio> I need help for a new first time installation of LTSP. Somebody can show me a step by step installation guide for edubuntu 14.04 ?
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| 13:46 | <highvoltage> Claudio: http://edubuntu.org/documentation/12.04/installation-guide
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| 13:51 | <Claudio> I've downloaded and installed Edubuntu 14.04 but never asked me for the ltsp option. So I've installed LTSP after edubuntu installation by the ubuntu sotware center.... but now ?
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| 13:52 | <highvoltage> Claudio: you never saw a screen that looks like http://edubuntu.org/sites/default/files/docimages/install-precise/030-edubuntu-options-oneiric.png ?
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| 13:54 | <Claudio> No, and I've installed edubuntu twice looking this option....
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| 13:54 | <highvoltage> Claudio: you might want to check that installation media
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| 13:56 | <Claudio> fine, I will download again edubuntu...
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| 13:56 | thank you....
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> Claudio: it's also possible to install ltsp outside of edubuntu, and add all the educational apps that you want
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| 14:18 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 14:18 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> ...that way you can install 16.04 instead of 14.04
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| 14:18 | That's what most people are using nowadays...
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| 14:20 | <highvoltage> ah most people I know are switching to debian
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| 16:02 | <Royale_AJS> Is it possible to place a graphics card in an ltsp server and utilize it's capabilities throughout the thin clients?
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| 16:05 | <||cw> Royale_AJS: not really, no. that would be a PCoIP class system, and as far as I know there's no open source equivalent for that
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| 16:07 | <Royale_AJS> Right on. I've got a classroom running Edubuntu and they're having some GUI performance issues. I've got plenty of hardware on the server, so I assume it just needs tuning then?
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| 16:07 | <vagrantc> depends on what the nature of the performance issues
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| 16:08 | generally, best option is to use FAT clients, which offloads most of the processing to the client
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| 16:09 | failing that, some people are willing to give up on seurity, and use LDM_DIRECTX=true, which should improve performance for thin clients, but the user session isn't encrypted.
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| 16:09 | <Royale_AJS> "slow web browsing performance" I'm being told be the teacher. Which could mean anything I guess. The client machines are old Dell Optiplex P4's on 512mb ram
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| 16:10 | I don't need encrypted sessions, I did just make the LDM_DIRECTX=true change in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf so hopefully that speeds a few things up.
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| 16:11 | It's all running on an isolated network within the computer lab.
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> yeah, those aren't likely to perform well as fat clients
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| 16:12 | Royale_AJS: will have to reboot for the changes to take effet
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| 16:12 | effect
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| 16:12 | <Royale_AJS> Yeah...small private school...no budget to get new thin/fat clients...
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| 16:12 | Yep, I rebooted.
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc> reboot the clients, not the server
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| 16:13 | <Royale_AJS> I told them they'd prob save money in the long run buying new thin clients because the cheapest NUC pulls all of 8 watts, whereas the Optiplex's pull like 200 watts at idle.
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| 16:13 | I made the change last night when all the lab computers were off.
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| 16:13 | Then rebooted the server.
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> no need to reboot the server for changes to lts.conf
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| 16:14 | <Royale_AJS> Any other tuning that I could possibly do to speed things up? I know it's not a server hardware performance issue.
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> probably nothing that isn't automatically done
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| 16:15 | main issue is that you're essentially shoving "raw" video over the network
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| 16:15 | !directx
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| 16:15 | <ltsp> directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
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| 16:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg has all sorts of nubmers compiled somewhere about video performance issues and bandwidth requirements for video at various resolutions
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| 16:17 | <Royale_AJS> Roger that. The clients all have 100mb nics to a 1gb switch, server is on 1gb port.
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| 16:17 | The server is actually running in a Proxmox VM.
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| 16:17 | <vagrantc> and depending on what they're doing, it will trivially saturate 100MB connection
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| 16:18 | !duplex
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| 16:18 | <ltsp> Error: "duplex" is not a valid command.
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| 16:18 | <Royale_AJS> Would something as simple as watching a youtube video saturate 100mb?
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| 16:18 | <vagrantc> there was some issue with certain networks running with 100MB/1000MB networks where certain switches don't handle it well
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| 16:18 | Royale_AJS: as simple as?
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| 16:19 | Royale_AJS: that's the main issue, watching video ...
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| 16:19 | <Royale_AJS> Yes, sorry. "As simple as"
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| 16:19 | <vagrantc> Royale_AJS: basically what happens is the server downloads the video stream that's compressed, and then uncompresses it and sends it over the network to your client
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| 16:19 | <Royale_AJS> The entire video stream would sent uncompressed then wouldn't it? Ok now I get it.
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| 16:20 | <vagrantc> this is why fat clients really are where it's at, given what technology is like these days
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| 16:20 | <Royale_AJS> Youtube send h.264 > server decodes .h264 > server sends raw data over network to thin client > client plays slow
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| 16:20 | Correct/
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| 16:20 | ?
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| 16:20 | <vagrantc> still can get the benefits of ccentralized network booted computers and such
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| 16:20 | Royale_AJS: that's the just
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| 16:20 | Royale_AJS: jist
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| 16:21 | Royale_AJS: dunno about the particular protocols, but that part doesn't really matter
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| 16:21 | <Royale_AJS> Yeah protocols there don't really matter when you're sending raw draw data over a network.
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| 16:21 | <vagrantc> Royale_AJS: only other option is to run some applications locally, but in general if you can't handle full fat clients, single applications aren't likely to work very well
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| 16:22 | <Royale_AJS> Running locally would require ALL the thin clients to be the exact same hardware as well right? Or they'd need separate configs per type of hardware?
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| 16:25 | (sorry I'm new to lstp tech)
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc> no
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| 16:26 | <Royale_AJS> Ok sweet.
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> as long as you're running all i386 machines
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| 16:26 | !localapps
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| 16:26 | <ltsp> localapps: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> wow, that's old
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| 16:26 | !docs
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| 16:26 | <ltsp> docs: (#1) For the latest community documentation, see the LTSP wiki at http://wiki.ltsp.org/, or (#2) For a PDF with official documentation, install the ltsp-docs package.
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> the ltsp-docs package is a bit dated, but the basic ideas should all be in there
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| 16:29 | <Royale_AJS> Awesome. Out of curiosity, would a bunch of these cheapo machines work for fat(ter) clients than old P4's? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856501007
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| 16:30 | They aren't going to be running Call of Duty on it or anything. I'd just want at least Firefox to run locally.
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> Royale_AJS: should be decent, sure
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> Royale_AJS: with fat clients, you basically can even get rid of your fancy server ... it just becomes a file server at that point
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| 16:31 | <Royale_AJS> As long as they PXE boot I suppose. I'll have to look into it and propose it to the board.
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| 16:32 | The VM server is running more than just Edubuntu, it's got the firewall and a couple other VM's running on it as well.
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> 2GB of ram is reasonable
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| 16:33 | ah fair enough ... well, it'll reduce the server load significantly
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| 16:33 | obviously, more ram is better
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| 16:33 | !pu
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| 16:33 | <ltsp> Error: "pu" is not a valid command.
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> !cpu
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| 16:33 | <ltsp> I have taken 6446.71 seconds of user time and 204.59 seconds of system time, for a total of 6651.30 seconds of CPU time. My children have taken 0.00 seconds of user time and 0.00 seconds of system time for a total of 0.00 seconds of CPU time. I'm taking up 24776 kB of memory.
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 16:33 | !speed
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| 16:33 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'speed', but I do know about these similar topics: 'suspend', 'suse', 'sound'
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| 16:34 | <vagrantc> !benchmark
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| 16:34 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'benchmark', but I do know about these similar topics: 'lan-benchmark', 'cpubenchmark'
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| 16:34 | <vagrantc> !cpubenchmark
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| 16:34 | <ltsp> cpubenchmark: One way to measure your client CPU performance is by looking up its CPU score in cpubenchmark.net. Anything with score below 1000 isn't really acceptable for today's web browsing needs etc. For new clients, try to buy ones with score>2000, whether you plan to run them as LTSP fat clients or to install a local OS in them.
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| 16:34 | <vagrantc> Royale_AJS: there you go!
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| 16:34 | knew it was in there somewhere
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| 16:35 | <Royale_AJS> The server: 2x6 core xeons, 144GB ram, 400GB NVMe drive running VM's, 2TB local backup for NVMe snapshots. Should be enough hardware : )
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> Royale_AJS: yeah, but you want to make sure to get clients capable enough if you go with fat clients
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| 16:36 | !fatclient
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| 16:36 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> !fatclients
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| 16:36 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 16:37 | <Royale_AJS> True. I'll see what the board says.
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| 16:37 | <vagrantc> oh, that doc is also very dated
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| 16:37 | i'd recommend using ltsp-pnp methods:
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| 16:37 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 16:37 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 16:39 | <Royale_AJS> I'll start with non-encrypted sessions and see where that gets me from a performance perspective. From there, I may have to move them to fat clients.
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| 16:40 | <vagrantc> Royale_AJS: if you can scrounge at least one dual-core machine with 2GB of ram to show for comparison
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| 16:40 | Royale_AJS: that might be useful
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| 16:41 | <Royale_AJS> Not a bad idea. I'm going to try that. I have a personal NUC laying around, I'll try it with that.
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| 16:41 | <vagrantc> by default, there's a setting that will check the ram and fat client capability and use fat or thin clients as appropriate
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| 16:41 | so you could upgrade one machine at a time
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| 16:42 | how many clients is this?
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| 16:42 | also, feel free to put your install on the map:
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| 16:42 | !worldmap | echo Royale_AJS
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| 16:42 | <ltsp> Royale_AJS worldmap: If you're using LTSP, please let the world know and share your story at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/ Your can add a nice pin to our world map at your location, plus your setup will count towards the global LTSP usage statistics.
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| 16:43 | <Royale_AJS> There are 18 client machines.
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| 16:44 | <vagrantc> all in the same room?
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| 16:44 | <Royale_AJS> Yeah. Same room.
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| 16:45 | I'll definitely add to the world map.
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| 16:45 | <vagrantc> has it been in service a while, or is it a new install?
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| 16:47 | <Royale_AJS> A couple years. Still running Edubuntu 12.04, I'll probably upgrade to 14.04 at semester break. Started with 8 clients, now at 18.
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| 16:48 | Chosen because of budget constraints and lack of new hardware for client machines. And ease of administration as well.
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc> may as well upgrade to 16.04, no?
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| 16:48 | <Royale_AJS> Is edubuntu out for 16.04?
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc> i think edubuntu ceased to exist ... but there really isn't much, if any, difference with ubuntu
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| 16:49 | if you're going to upgrade, you may as well upgrade to something with a longer support cycle
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| 16:49 | <Royale_AJS> Except the menu item application to setup menu based on groups.
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| 16:49 | <vagrantc> i see
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| 16:49 | <Royale_AJS> Yeah, I'm going to try to do an in-place upgrade to 14.04 first.
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| 16:50 | <vagrantc> i think they require upgrading through all the LTS releases in the middle anyways
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| 16:50 | <Royale_AJS> When the little kids login, they only see like 5 things in their menu. When the 4th-5th graders login, they get a whole bunch more apps available.
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| 16:52 | Anyway, I have to go. Thank you so much vagrantc for all your help.
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| 16:52 | I'll pop back on here when I have results of my findings.
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> hope it goes well!
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| 16:52 | <Royale_AJS> Thanks! Bye
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| 22:40 | <preguntas> hello is there anyone actively working in this chat?
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| 22:44 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 22:45 | hah. I forgot to test chrootless clients with 5.5.8 ... probably fine ... but may as well test now
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| 23:15 | alkisg: i regret convincing you about ltsp-update-kernels pulling from the directory if available
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| 23:15 | * vagrantc is thinking ltsp-update-kernels should always regenerate pxelinux* | |
| 23:16 | <vagrantc> er, ltsp-update-image should always regenerate pxelinux*
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| 23:17 | with "ltsp-update-image --cleanup /" and a configuration in /boot/pxelinux.cfg on the server (from, say, a kernel update or something), then it will be stuck with the stale version in /boot/ until you force regenerate it on the server
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| 23:17 | or remove it
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| 23:29 | ben_roose has left IRC (ben_roose!~roose@roose.cs.wichita.edu, Quit: Leaving) | |